That's something I will try to gif later - all the choctaws we've seen so far.
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| Oops. |
A reminder that according to the rulebook, this thing:
Is every bit as difficult as this:
Screen caps:
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| I could do this all day. |
Saturday, October 7, 2017
Imagine their names aren't Papadakis & Cizeron
tWhat would this have scored if it were, say, Gilles Poirier (who, btw, have better unison, which is not a compliment in either direction). What about those teensy choctaws?
That's something I will try to gif later - all the choctaws we've seen so far.
A reminder that according to the rulebook, this thing:
Is every bit as difficult as this:
Screen caps:
That's something I will try to gif later - all the choctaws we've seen so far.
A reminder that according to the rulebook, this thing:
Is every bit as difficult as this:
Screen caps:
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Finladia Trophy SD results are out.
ReplyDeleteThey got a higher mark for their Rhumba sequence (6.30) than V/M (6.20). If I've read correctly, the two judges that gave them 3's for the pattern also gave them two 10s each for the PCs
He is a fabulous dancer and this is probably one team where your eyes are drawn to man, rather than the lady. Would I score this anywhere near 78 points? Absolutely not. The straight line step sequence was nothing to brag about, especially after they hit mid ice...I think they literally did three back crossovers.
ReplyDeleteThe straight line lift was predictable. He in a spread eagle, she first putting her knee on his leg and then grabbing onto his neck where she can then pull herself up.
The middle section where they go into the 'Thinking out loud' portion has no Latin feel at all. I'm sorry but that section was more of an exhibition skate than a Latin SD.
I'll have to rewatch again but I'm not sure where the tech marks are coming from. Oh and their twizzles-would it kill them to exit their twizzles in unison, rather than this bullshit of him sliding on his knee?
He is not a fabulous dancer. What they are good at is maintaining their composure no matter what is going on with their feet. Neither one of them has rhythm, the first requirement of a good dancer. This is a joke.
DeleteWhat is this bullshit lift. D/W could at least fake the difficulty better. P/C are not even trying. Watch their ubers defend via downplaying other teams' lifts by saying ice dance has become too acrobatic.
ReplyDeleteThe rhumba pattern scores are a joke.
P/C ubers believe that as long as it's KNOWN P/C can do the hard stuff, they should get credit for it and it's ok if their programs are simple.
DeleteV/M's music choice: this is not Latin
ReplyDeleteP/C's music choice: OMG they're brilliant, they took modern music and made it Latin!!!
The internet is a joke. The P/C ubers are wetting themselves because "this is the best SD this season." I'm hoping against all hope that this season will play like last where P/C was overscored until they went head to head and not even their magical scores could hold them up. If this is what garners 78 points, dare I say V/M should be in the 85 range with this judging panel (if that many points is even possible).
Scott's costume is too much but Cizeron in a black wife beater is soooo Latin. My head hasn't stopped shaking this morning.
I know right! Makes me sick!
DeleteOh yeah, what's up with Cizeron's costume choice here? To distract from actually skating? I'd take over any skater with bad costume choice but with great skating skills any day. Note: I love the Danes! Even the second placement is soooo much better than P/C
DeleteThere's so much here that's in your face awful, and it doesn't matter. When D/W competed, it was one team doing one non-skating thing, and another team skating (VM). Here, it's two teams actually skating, one of them very poorly, and that team is getting astronomical scores. Every time I look I either see something else or someone points out something else, such as Cizeron dropping into a spinning squat right after the twizzles in both programs so there is no need for them to maintain unison.
DeleteI was going to give the benefit of a doubt when P/C announced that they'll be dancing to that piece of music. After all, V/M did try something different but with Latin beat. Because we couldn't view P/C's SD at Masters, I read over & over how bad that skaters are choosing a non traditional Latin song to dance to, etc. But goodness gracious, what is *this*???? On top of that, that...that...lift?! I can't even...
ReplyDeleteYou know what I want in this blog? Is to just have gifs (on similar elements) of the top 5 in this Finlandia comp and make the comparison against P/C. And every.single.comp they'll be on for the next months. Just to see how to justify the placement as is now in order to setup for Olympics. Total farce! (
We already know what that will look like. Once all the top teams have showed their programs, I'm confident even Chock and friggin Bates will have better skating element to element.
DeleteIt's kind of worrisome when the second competition circuit are rewarding P/C for an juniors (like) program. I really don't know what to think once they go head to head with the Canadians in December.
DeleteP/C fans are narrating their way out of the fact that this is a junior-ish program. They are pointing to the protocols to justify the protocols, and as usual there are too few fans willing to call out the protocols - call out the sport. They'll do it for a random judge or instance, but not as a concerted pattern of corruption.
DeleteWhere didn't you see this shirt dance? I don't understand their lifts. It's same thing over and over.
ReplyDeleteJust like D/W, they are allowed to do the same thing over and over. The twizzles are the same as well, no difference between the programs.
DeleteWatched the sd. Papadakis is slower than last year and they're completely out of sync. They are worse than Davis white . Davis white sucked but their lifts were not as bad and they weren't as slow.
DeleteGaby tripped in this program, see the gif in the post. They're slow, out of sync, and nobody else even pretending to shoot for the podium has such dumbed down lifts. The lifts themselves are a slap in the face to every skater, as is the twizzle exit.
DeleteI though Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen should have been in first place.
ReplyDeleteAre the judges (Feds) seriously propping up this French team because of their past successes/current FD or something? I figure after watching today's short dance programs, I'd say that Danish team or even the second place team would have ranked over the French...hands down. What can I say except the whole short program looked ... amateurish? Sorry ...
ReplyDeleteThey are propping up this French team because that was the next phase of the deal that was struck among the Feds prior to the 2014 Olympics. I don't think the other Feds went along with things just because they felt the U.S. was owed. Canada had to get paid in order to cooperate with throwing VM under the bus, and France had to get paid as well. Don't know what Russia got out of the deal, but voila. Gadbois becomes on par with the elite ice dance training centers, and France gets World Champions two years running. It's a DEAL that was made. Anybody with eyes, anybody who knows anything about skating instead of wasting their time deciding what they think about the on ice acting or personalities, can see the inferior skating here. There has to be a reason it has been rewarded as it's been.
DeleteThe Russians got undeserving bronze and their athletes on the podium in each skating discipline including what was done to Yuna Kim.
DeletePoint taken, and as well pairs fans have pointed out that there's a big difference between what happens to certain teams who routinely botch throws and jumps versus others. Some are held up, others lose all chance.
DeleteThis program is yikes. Ed Sheeran is not Latin.
ReplyDeleteAnything can be Latin as long as it has a latin rhythm. The problem here isn't the music, as blah as it is - it's the skating.
DeleteAlthough someone on one of the forums snarked that it was very clever of PC to find music with a pulse instead of a beat.
DeleteHad a good laugh after reading a comment on goldenskate forum. Stating that V/M can't do body rolls anymore. Oh, and Papadakis' outfit isn't OTT (some posters thought so) yet Virtue's is. God, where does this end? Honestly I'm fine with Gabby's dress. It's no different than what's being worn by others now (including Tessa in the past). That comment on body roll though ... ROFL ... Some posters still don't get that V/M's dance choice/choreography exists in Latin ballroom world. They keep comparing V/M's with P/C's. V/M already stated that they wanted to try a different Latin style choreography. Is that so wrong of them? Plus they've done THAT style (one posters expect) of Latin dance in past competitions. If they're so keen on that type of dance style, I suggest these posters just watch those on YouTube. Then they could get comparison like apple-to-apple. V/M's old programs vs P/C's current one. Body rolls, sigh ...
ReplyDeleteThere is no comparison with not just PC and VM, but PC and any number of other better teams. It's nauseating that PC and VM are even compared. There is no head to head aspect in which PC can even pretend to compete.
DeleteP&C received 110 in the FD, mainly because he fell at the end of the diagonal. Their PCS was slightly higher than V&M (skating on home ice) in both programs. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteV&M can win, but it's going to be all down to base value, and it shouldn't have to be that close.
The ISU has leveled things in terms of base value. It's not about rewarding difficulty - it's the absolute opposite. It's criminal that PC's base value is on par, per the rules, with VM's. And yet PC's fans recognize their free dance is not as hard, and pretend stuff like magic makes up the difference. How about dealing with the fact that ON PAPER, the sport says PC's stuff is just as hard? Even PC fans don't want to touch that.
DeleteOh, but they ARE doing wonderfully difficult things! Apparently the stationary lift, for example, is a marvel of balance that few dare attempt.
DeleteAlso -- the fall on diagonal steps? No biggie! It is silly fluke! Never mind when Scott stumbles on a transition it's cause to demand V/M lose a bonus 5 or so PCS points and get hit in TES, too, somehow, for good measure.
A P/C uber exclaimed with glee at the difficulty of Cizeron tilting his head back in time with the music as he was in the air spin. I imagine these are the same people who walk into my emergency department who have accidentally stabbed their eye with a fork while they eat. True example of how difficulty is entirely subjective.
Delete*sit spin
DeleteIt's so depressing.
DeleteI absolutely cannot stand reading the forums. An excerpt re the short dances. "As for the short dances - V/Ms is way ahead, IMO. P/C don't seem as fundamentally incapable of finding the mood of the latin as they were last year in the blues, Gabriella, in particular is selling it hard. But I found her over the top rather than authentic (I know, I know, latin ballroom, but still) and the choreography for her arms is way too busy and distracting."
ReplyDeleteWhat the fuck does ANY of that bullshit have to do with skating? With competition? With element execution, rhythm, pattern, skating skills, speed, technical difficulty? I look and look on forums and this is ALL I see. ALL of the discussion is that crap. The participants know perfectly well the rulebook doesn't deal with shit like that, and yet they persist.
It's pointless. If they actually understand the rules, comments posted would revolve more about skating skills (ex. edges, execution of lifts, SS etc) rather than just how distracting skaters' outfits, arm movements are and so on. I firmly believe that even the judges themselves will evaluate a program based on what they see (and subconsciously like) in terms off choreography or music and only then follow those up with technical elements.
DeleteI think the judges themselves will evaluate a program based on what has been previously agreed. I only hope that when the rubber meets the road, Virtue and Moir aren't double-crossed and I likewise hope the Shibs and others are allowed to outscore PC as they have long deserved to.
DeleteI sure hope so, oycanada.
DeleteI just found this JC Berlot article from 2013 Masters. The kind of language used about P/C -- and this is before their GADBOIS TRANSFORMATION, their program was the Woodkid medley then and before that they skated to Pink Floyd in bondage gear -- is um interesting. http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2013/10/07/62551376/french-skaters-debut-programs-in-orl233ans
ReplyDelete(The paragraph after the one on dance is also interesting.)
Yet a year later PJ Kwong hadn't gotten the memo, and she tossed PC into the middle of the pack. She had no idea that without changing a thing about their skating, they were soon to be annointed.
DeleteP/C's music completely overpowers them and their skating. How are some people blind to this???
ReplyDeleteA lot of their fans only see the blue, white and red vertical bands. To them, that is enough to deem them as gods.
DeleteThe music is not the problem. If more fans would ignore the music, other than to note whether or not the skaters are using the appropriate rhythm, the sport would be better off.
DeleteI don't know, there are any number of non-French ubers, but these are the same people who only concern themselves with the music and the expression and ignore the blades in motion. And unison. And two-footing. And terrible lines. Etc.
DeletePC ara a joke or a nightmare it seems Didier has done his job and honestly I'm worried I'm thinking VM would be robbed again.
ReplyDeletePs: if all the people that read this blog could report a person who is spread false things in T's ig would be fine
I sincerely hope the overinflation of P/C's scores is a ploy to make it seem like the battle for gold is very tight to get viewership.
DeleteFor the healthy of the sport I hope this os only a play if not ot would be the dead of the sport.
DeleteI blocked and reported that troll on T ig.
I don't believe Didier has much to do with it. They were elevated in order to establish Gadbois as a top flight training center, so superior that the great Virtue and Moir had to go to Montreal, humbly asking for Gadbois to fix the technical side of their skating (WHICH, as we recall, was not the problem, score-wise. D/W were beating them on PCs, a certain indicator of corruption). The team that became champions at Gadbois were French, thus putting the Canadian and French Feds on board with the ice dance robbery of 2014.
DeleteAt this point they should be making PC's scores more conservative so that more deserving teams can compete. I insulted, as a skating fan, that fans are pretending anything about PC's content is elite level. I am reading arguments that their lifts are secretly very difficult.
Good point oycanada. However, it still feels like we're back in Olympics 2012-2014. I pray as you do too that V/M will not be double crossed or (read a post somewhere) where they (only they, I might add) will be judged more harshly in comparison to other skaters. Why may I ask? Seriously? I don't f- know. Sick of this really ...
DeleteI have a question. I can understand that a lot of fans may have problem to understand the skating rules and that's why they don't see that P/C are so weak. But what about so many people involved in skating? Lots of other skaters, coaches, choreographers coming from all over the world, love and admire P/S and their skating skills. Most of them don't have any interest to support P/C over other teams. Don't they know rules either? Are they so blinded? Does the whole skating world participate in some sham? How is it possible that only a group of V/M fans see what's going on and see the real value of P/C skating, which is worth nothing?
DeleteIt's not that v/m fans are the only one who understands the rules & such. It's because even if non fans watch they also do know what's going on but choose to ignore what's going on. In the end, the judges and Feds or whoever else actually determines the fates of the skaters based on who they feel worthy. Instead of treating this like a sport & competition of best skating skills but because of the artistic component, at least to me, Ice dance sport has become more a subjective one rather an objective one (based on who really had the better skating skill sets). Looking at patterns, it's more obvious (again to me) that judging in this sport is still looking at program choreography first and then skaters skills second. Plus politics in the mix, it becomes a huge mess
DeleteI think most of the judging takes place before the skaters take the ice. IOW it's more corrupt than it has ever been. I don't believe that every single person in ice dance and in skating overall felt that Davis White deserved their gold medal over Virtue and Moir in 2014, but every single person in the sport claimed that was so. Only Beverly Smith uttered a peep to the contrary when she said "Davis White aren't seen to make mistakes." IOW, Davis White's mistakes were ignored (and their lack of skating ignored, and the true value of their difficulty inflated), and the same is true of PC. The Feds decide how it's going to be, and then everybody in the sport plays along because they don't want to rock the boat. Remember in the old days when a skater or team would complain that they were robbed or something was unfair or blah blah blah? See how seldom that happens today? Have the Shibs complained when they have every right to complain? There's a reason. It's all political.
DeleteIf the 2002 Olympic pairs competition had happened today instead of in 2002, Sale & Pelletier wouldn't have complained, the American comment booth wouldn't have had a meltdown. This is setting aside the fact that Sale & Pelletier did not deserve to win despite their complaints. Nobody would have complained in public. NOBODY talks about it. The sport is not accountable.
With S&P I always thought it was that there was a deal, only it was FOR them to win, and it had been building up for a while (see 2011 Worlds). That's why the meltdown, and they went for the French judge because she was supposed to have voted for Canada. It would be like if VM accidentally won in Sochi, the US media would have had an absolute fucking meltdown... but of course, CoP ice dance makes that nearly impossible.
DeleteWell, that's always possible. The explosion of righteousness in 2002 was something else, and ignored the short dance, and as well ignored that B&S far and away had more difficult content. S&P certainly acted as if the gold was in their hands before the scores came in, and they can't possibly have believed they were the clear winners against skaters like B&S. So you could be right.
DeleteI do know that the finding of a "culprit" at the end of that mess was as bogus as it gets, a sort of double reverse, triple backstabbing feat of bullshit. There was corruption, somebody didn't play along, so they found that person or "a" person and claimed that the person who didn't cooperate with the corruption was the corrupt one.
For good or bad, I have no patience with any media who complains about figure skating since absolutely nobody in media has made the slightest effort to understand the first thing about figure skating.
^Ignored the short program.
DeleteHonestly if this is what judges are looking for and what I can decipher from opinions from opposed fans/audience ask of skaters' programs, V/M should really just dumb down their whole FD to obtain that "smoothness", "speed" and yes, please also less-complex lifts (because why break their backs or mind to do a much harder lift when an easy (but actually hard) one counts as the same value, right?
ReplyDeleteBecause they wouldn't be rewarded for that either. They can't win. OyCanada thinks they were privately assured something when they decided to return. I am starting to feel like the wins last year were all they are going to get. I pray that I am wrong.
DeleteExactly. This has nothing to do with what Virtue Moir put on the ice. They did lyrical schmaltz last season to kiss Marie France's ass, and now this season they can be themselves, with the understanding that all of the spectacular elements they do are rated as no more difficult than the junior level pablum PC are doing.
DeleteVM came back to win Olympic gold, period. The entire time they were gone, every time I wished for their return, I realized there would be no point to it unless they received an understanding that they'd be allowed to win. What would be the point of coming back and getting their ass kicked by another bullshit political team? No matter how they present themselves to the media, these two are about as naive and trusting as a couple of cobras.
Here's what really kills me - do you see other top level teams dumbing down their material so they can be "smooth" and not break the mood, blah blah blah the bullshit I read on fan boards? How come no other teams besides PC are keeping it all smooth and uninterrupted by gauche and unseemly exhibitions of skating and athletic prowess?
Because they wouldn't be able to get away with it. Only PC. Anyone else come out and skate that program, and skate it exactly as PC skates it (complete with Gabby tripping and Guillaume's fall) would get slapped in the face. Do PC fans think all the other teams are trying difficult lifts because all of those other teams are tacky and stupid? That these other teams don't realize they could do a beautiful and simple lift and score just as highly?
These other teams wouldn't be allowed to do it. Why are lesser-skilled teams (than VM) killing themselves trying to make something LOOK difficult if they can't actually accomplish a truly difficult element. Why are they killing themselves doing six different things in a kind of "eh" way in hopes that six different meh moves will count as one good move? Don't they realize they could be artistes, work on exercises that bond themselves with each other, the music and the universe, and save themselves a lot of aches, pains and wasted effort?
My fear is that they already got what they came back for - GPF. I say it based on how I would feel. I wouldn't be able to rest until I had it all, and in their case the only thing they still had to win was the GPF. I REALLY fear they are once again going into the olympics knowing they can be robbed but still trying to kick their way in and getting a gold medal. I fear their understanding was "Dumb it down and win GPF. You can be yourselves during the olympics, we won't make your moves illegal but we'll give level 4s to your rivals most basic moves. You can try and do it in a way we can't deny you your place but there's no garantees. It's up to you."
DeleteI've never seen champions so sad. Their eyes... especially Scott's. From the beginning of their comeback last year (not the interviews, the competitions) there was an unbearable sadness. Tessa can hide it very well, but not Scott.
Oh well, hope I'm wrong about it all. Or at least this time they do it in a way there isn't any way to rob them of their gold. They are so good, it's ridiculous to even try and compare.
I think they're just cynical. I recall the passion with which Scott would speak about skating running up to 2009. After 2010 I think they went along with the idea that the ISU set the bar higher for them, but when they cleared that bar at the World Champions and finally, at the Olympics, they'd be rewarded as they were in 2010, even though the bar was set higher for them than anyone else. I think they found out differently the year they put out Carmen.
DeleteBut, they love to skate and "compete". They want the medals, and it's the Olympic medal they want, not the GPF. They know they deserve them, even if they're not winning because they deserve them. I just think what we're seeing in them are people who are lying about their training environment, lying about their attitude towards the sport, lying about their attitude towards their competitors. They know they should be 4 time World Champions and 2 time Olympic gold medalists. They know that. They're playing the game anyway. I think it sticks in their craw a whole lot more than the lying they did and do about their personal lives. I remember their enthusiasm in 2009 and 2010. I don't believe it was just about winning in Canada, but knowing how good they were, feeling the thrill of competition (or what they thought was competition), becoming Olympic champions, etc. They know there is no comparison between themselves and any other team, least of all PC. I think that has an impact on their demeanor when they deal with the media. It's degrading, what they need to do to be allowed to win the medals they earn every time they step on the ice.
tHey will. there's literally no way unless they fall on their face that they won't get gold with those programs. i've said this a million times but we know that b/c of the carmen lift which they were told to take out for olympics and we know that by comparing the fluff from last year to this year's programs. tho last year's short was on par with this one.
DeleteYeah, I guess you're right. It would make me sad if I loved my sport but knew about all the bs and had to play into it.
ReplyDeleteThey're probably just tired. Like Scott saying Tessa is too restless to sleep sometimes. That was no slip of the tongue. He knew exactly what he was doing. He was being a little rebel.
That was in reply to OC @11:12
Delete