Tuesday, March 26, 2013

The coup de gras


It took me a second to remember what this was. After the spin they go directly into the lift where Meryl ends on a knee slide - so she's on her knee at the start of this because she's exited the lift.

The feet - WTF?


We're in the home stretch. Still not sure how CoP categorizes this part.


This program was originally conceived to help them skate more interdependently and intricately, and by the end they appeared so spooked by the experiment that this program ends up putting more ice between them than their previous 3 seasons' worth of programs combined.

This program is ridiculous. And the skating is - what happened?

60 comments:

  1. i hate them so fucking much

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    1. Whoa, chill out dude. It's just skating.

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  2. I don't have the appropriate words to describe my dismay at everything.

    This was indeed worse than I thought, and I thought it was pretty bad from the day of the FD at worlds in 2011.

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    1. It's way worse than I thought. I agree with the comment that said they figured this performance had more transitions, but when you look at this program in its component parts, where the hell is the SKATING?

      If their fans imagined they'd have ever gone to Igor they haven't been scrutinizing these programs closely enough - about as closely as the judges have done. They'd be DOA without Marina's choreography.

      oc

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    2. I was thinking about this last night. V/M are so talented that almost any choreographer could work with them and come up with a beautiful program. That is not true for D/W. The majority of choreographers wouldn't be able to do a damned thing for them as the skating is so weak.

      When Igor and Marina split, many questioned why D/W didn't go with Igor. The answer is obvioius. Like you said, they'd be dead in the water without Marina.

      If I'm not mistaken, the tango was originally Igor's idea and mostly his choreography. The couldn't do it. In the end, it morphed into the stock FD, and I'm sure, the morphing was far more Marina than Igor.

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    3. I remember Meryl saying that she and Charlie were strong in "x, y, and z", so they wanted to use the tango to help them grow in areas like lines and "toe point". Lines and toe point! Look at that mess!

      But I don't even want to focus on that, because the reality is that blade work is the highest value.

      And what a mess the blade work is as well. Charlie's on two feet half the time, running and lunging a bunch of other times, and there's nothing like blade run in this program at all.

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  3. Folks - the sad part also is at Champs Camp - the USFSA rejected at least 1 SD and 2 FDs. Can you imagine what hot messes those must have been?

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    1. Oh gawd, you're right.

      If we think about what's made it out into the world, imagine how bad the rejected dances were.

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  4. This is all just makes me so sick. Gutted, heartbroken and angry for Tessa and Scott and just so fucking mad at Meryl/Charlie and anyone working for them.

    Someone needs to speak up for Tessa and Scott and they need to do it now. They're either clearly not interested in helping themselves or their hands are tied.

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    1. I don't see the point in being mad at Meryl and Charlie. They're doing their job to the utmost. They are killing themselves out there. It's right out of the Duschenay playbook or the Domnina Shabalin playbook of 2010. They're not sucking intentionally.

      You'd think they have overplayed the "frenzy" hand but guess not - it keeps working. They always choose a mode that works around glide and real partnering.

      Just looking at this program, I have a hard time pinpointing where Meryl's specific deficiencies are. For example - what's up with the lifts and the ins and outs of the lifts - is that him or her? What's with the whacky kicking and flinging of the legs - him or her?

      When I look at Charlie though, I see a guy who is unable to truly control what he's doing and everything works around it. It's not that I think Meryl is some sort of paragon ice dancer, but the conversation about them is usually that he's first rate and she's not. He's not first rate.

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    2. More specifically, I see Charlie unable to sustain control. Everything they do is carefully bracketed so he never has to extend it.

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    3. I will admit to having some anger for D/W in all of this. They're doing their jobs, but they're also the ones making some of these comments to the press that are, IMO, not above the board. I know you see things differently, but there's been an awful lot there that has rubbed me the wrong way.

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    4. Let me add this as well. During the ice sweat and tears documentary - Marina - says that V/M are unique and that D/W are passionate. Well after this season - Marina you cannot claim that D/W are passionate cuz V/M are unique AND the PASSIONATE team about improving themselves and actually putting it on the line. D/W - should be your SAFE team period. Perhaps that's the message that all coaches and federations need to start clamouring is that D/W are SAFE. Perhaps V/M need to start saying that since D/W are now 2 time World Champs - they need to show something significantly different.
      I know that V/M won't say that but perhaps as another previous poster has indicated maybe someone down the line during the GP series will stand up and question the judging in ice dance. I also have to agree with anon at 10:48 am - yes D/W are doing their jobs - but I don't exactly think that they have been sportsmanlike either. We complain that the media hasn't supported V/M but when V/M were on top - V/M gave D/W genuine praise. I haven't seen that reciprocated from D/W over the last two years.
      My two cents...

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  5. This is a mess that gets me angrier! The only one who seemed to not agree with the result was Zhulin & he stated in a polite way. I also hate how this FD made some of their fans think that they were improving and stretching themselves. So naive! Next season is just gonna suck. The US Media will be insufferable as shit, campaigning for D/W.

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  6. @10:03--next season is going to be awful. At this point, I'm not sure I'm going to watch any of it. I don't care to see what is inevitably coming down the pike. I can't take a whole season of this sort of thing: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151833716042538&set=a.10151833715037538.1073741848.278550292537&type=3&theater

    No one--no one-- in the North American media is willing to go to bat for them. You have tweets like these from PJ Kwong: https://twitter.com/skatingpj/status/313060973617491968 And Tracy's just going along with the brainwashing.. JFC. V/M have always been big on letting their skating speak for itself, and it does, it's screaming at the top of it's voice. But, the skating doesn't count for anything anymore. With no support from anyone, V/M are screwed next season.

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    1. I'm agreeing with all the expectations that the media for DW will be insufferable going into next season. However, I can't help thinking VM and Co have been part of the problem. They do bear some blame for never having any structure in place to counteract lies about their own skating. But they did manage to make sure the world knows they are not romantically linked off-ice. So there's that - and apparently their supposed success in that media area has given them all the satisfaction they need.

      So yeah - things will be the same next season. We just have to expect it and be prepared for it mentally. Maybe after VM retire people like Torville-Dean will feel free to speak out in defense of all that VM contributed to their sport.

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    2. I agree that V/M could be and should be doing a lot more to try to counteract some of this and try to get the conversation on the actual skating.

      That said, I'm incredibly angry that PR counts more than the skating--to the point I'm not sure the skating counts at all. The only thing that should matter is what a team puts down on the ice on the day, in a particular performance.

      I suppose that's my way of saying that V/M need to be fighting harder in the press on the subjects where it really matters, but it angers me that it's necessary for them to do that.

      I have a feeling my mental prep for next season is ultimately going to have to be just to walk away from it all.

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    3. Anon 12:18 - It's true, the media shouldn't matter at all, only what is put on the ice on that day. Unfortunately, figure skating has always been political and for decades, ice-dance in particular. What makes me angry is that VM and Skate Canada know this, it's not like a successful media campaign for DW should come as any surprise to anyone in the sport. What has happened is that in fact VM & SC have used their media/political capital, they just happened to have MISused it on stupid lies. IMO it will be up to others around the sport - if they care and/or are able - to try and implement a media push back. I'm not really sure it's possible in this last year of VM's competitive career. There's been too much bs on all sides.

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    4. I've been an ice dance fan for roughly 2 decades now, so, yes, I'm well aware of the poltical nature of things. Being aware of it though doesn't make me any less angry.

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    5. I don't know if anyone expected Virtue Moir to get jobbed as much as they've been. Marina (rightly) declared that the Carmen program could get 200 points (or whatever a max out of sd and fd could be). She believed it because Carmen was designed directly from CoP, Carmen raised the standard of pcs for every move, and the standard of TES, according to CoP's own terms. On a point basis, VM ought to have gotten pretty close.

      Instead they were held below DW all season. DW got 77 fucking points for their Worlds short program skating FIRST in the second to final flight.

      I don't think Marina expected that. I don't think Marina expected Virtue Moir's own fucking Canadians championship to gut a combination spin from Level 4 to Level 1, signaling that the international judges should feel free to look at yet ANOTHER fucking thing Virtue Moir do and decide it needs changing more than halfway through the season, so by the time Worlds went around it was too late and they had to slot in Mahler.

      It must be interesting to have your own Fed working to gut you.

      This was the year it became obvious that those on the side of DW were wililng to play dirty in the media.

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    6. 11:22...I wish I didn't agree. Tessa and Scott seem to be standing back and unable to defend themselves skating-wise but THANK GOD that no one thinks they might be romantically involved off the ice. Congratulations on that success, guys.

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  7. I'm amazed at the amount of bitterness and sour grapes contained in one blog. I think you're crazy if you think the USFSA gives one flip about ice dance. V/M just weren't on their game this season. They never quite lived up to the hype of their FD. I think the practice vids from Skate Canada got a buzz going for them, more than they ever were able to deliver. Their Worlds FD was the best performance of Carmen all season, but I think even that could have been better. Perhaps if they were going to the World Team Trophy we could see the potential of Carmen fully realized.

    But just because they didn't have their best season, doesn't mean that you have to be so derisive and nasty toward Meryl and Charlie.

    I think the hours and hours of hard work all of these athletes put in entitle them to a degree of respect.

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    1. For the past I don't know how many seasons, D/W fans have called it sour grapes and bashing them anytime at all anyone has tried to have a critical discussion of their skating.

      Neither the blogger nor the rest of us are being mean or nasty to Meryl and Charlie; we're providng a critique of their skating, backed up with visual images from their programs that OC has painstakingly put together, and what is printed in the COP.

      I think a lot of D/W fans want this discussion shut down because they don't want to either hear and see that their team really isn't all it's cracked up to be or they don't want others to realize that D/W aren't all that.

      The only place V/M struggled this season was the score sheet, and that was due to being held down purposely in the scoring, not because of what was happening on the ice.

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    2. The critiques about VM's skating are always couched in vagaries - didn't live up to the hype, slow, not as athletic, undertrained, not up too par.

      What I have yet to see is an analysis based on the skating, not personal opinion and not just a recitation that "look, DW won because they got higher GOE on the twizzles."

      I don't see anything nasty in breaking down DW's technique. It is a sport. I can't think of another sport where it would be considered mean to slow mo and critique someone's form.

      Yu-Na's fans made all kinds of screencaps of her competitors falling and underrotating and flutzing. Ice dancing is a sport in which the finest of technical details are measured. The winning ice dancers should have no problem with anyone looking into the minute details of their elements and transitions if they have any confidence in what they put on the ice.

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    3. And here we go another visitor turning the spotlight on Virtue Moir because there is no defense for Davis White's skating and scores.

      Virtue and Moir are being cheated. That's not sour grapes.

      I agree - it seems to be making DW fans mad that people are actually looking at DW's skating. I don't think VM fans have that problem.

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    4. And not only are the critiques in Virtue Moir's skating couched in vagaries the praise for DW is either circular (they deserve high scores because they get high scores) or also couched in vagaries.

      This is a sport scored on a code of points and components and elements. Therefore, the judges are supposed to be critiquing and breaking down what's in front of them and in minute detail.

      Why are so many big fans of the sport hostile to a fan following along with what the judges are supposed to be doing? Why is it called ocd to do a basic critique on an athletic performance? What about when big March madness games are reviewed for controversial calls, key plays, key players, turning points etc? That's a sport where the scoring is straightforward, but it does analysis. Then we have figure skating when it's popular to complain that CoP is impossible to understand but when someone tries to match CoP scores to what's been put on the ice, they don't like it.

      So keep coming here DW fans and demonstrating your sour grapes that some people are noticing DW's skating doesn't add up with their win total. If DW fans weren't uncomfortable about it, if they were secure they wouldn't give a damn what this blog thought. I could just see some blog trying to argue that Michelle Kwan wasn't as good as Maria Butyrskaya and Kwan's fans giving a fuck. Analysis isn't DW's friend, even though the scoring system depends upon analysis.

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    5. This is my thing with DW's fans. Accept that your faves got a gift. You can say "hahaha Scott Moir is a douche and I love that he lost in Canada!!!111" all you want. Seriously.

      I can accept that Oksana Baiul got a gift when she won with no combination spin and no triple jump in combination. I don't care because I heart her and I think Nancy Kerrigan is a bitch.

      But you can't expect people not to comment about the reality of what they see on the ice. DW can't fool all the people all of the time. DW and their fans should be satisfied that they have fooled the judges and the media. They can't achieve total mind control, even with magical wizard hair.

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    6. But they're not entitled to world medals and scores they don't earn. Other skaters work hard too.

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    7. Apparantly the D/W ubers have now decided the way to go in response to having D/W's skating analyzed is to attack Tessa's physical appearance, saying she hasn't been in shape since 2011, she has bad lines, and is slow.

      Real classy, folks.

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    8. They ALWAYS go after Tessa and Scott because they can't analyze their own favorite's skating. It can't be done and have them come out deserving. They can only talk about what they like, what they prefer, their aesthetic taste, but no the actual skating.

      Tessa Virtue has bad lines? She's faster than Meryl, she skates with power, and her lines are perfect. So these are qualified observers right there.

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    9. Also, not meaning to slam Meryl Davis but she is underweight. Presumably these fans' ideal is the lollipop - a head that's giant perched on top of a body whose joints are the largest parts of the body.

      Meryl has a perfectly proportionate natural body but she maintains a weight that's unnatural and goes beyond the super fit, minimal body fat of not just the high performance athlete, but the high performance ice dancer.

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  8. Ugh no. The USFSA is of course gonna give a shit about ice dance because it's the only fs discipline they're sure to medal in & they also have the chance for gold. Do you think they're just gonna sit back & let D/W fend for themselves? Of course not. They're also so gonna take advantage of D/W's Kellogg's sponsorship; they're gonna brainwash people into thinking D/W are invincible & superior, which they are not. And breaking down everything doesn't = sour grapes. It's called analyzing. You know, just like how COP should be.

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    1. This is in reply to 4:06 ^^^

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    2. I suspect they've also realized Skate Canada is going to do more than just let VM fend for themselves; they're going to lend DW a hand at the Canadian championships. It's like this years Canadian Championships went - Hey ISU, do you really think this spin is kosher? How about these levels - are you going to be less strict than VM's own judges? There's an awful lot of ways to hold them down - let us show you!

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    3. OC 7:29
      But hey, Skate Canada gave out the message they considered VM and Gilles-Poirier just about equal. And *that* was the important take away for SC.

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    4. The spin, like so many other things, infuriates me. That spin had been called level 4 all season up until that point, then it inexplicably dropped to level 1--not to mention it got labeled a combo spin instead a regular dance spin.

      I have had the "things filter back to us" comment from one of those articles around nationals on my mind. In hindsight, I honestly wonder if the comments about the appropriateness of the program were "filtering" back to them from the ISU or SC. Given the other things that have been pulled on V/M over the years, at this point, it doesn't seem that farfetched to me for V/M to have been told that fans were saying stuff about the program that wasn't actually being said. At the very beginning of the season, the difficulty of the program, how V/M had all new elements, and Tessa's dance background were discussed in the press. By the time nationals rolled around, it's a lot of talk about how controversial the program is and how people want them to be classic V/M. I wonder if they were fed a lot of garbage feedback about fan reaction to the program. Then, they think they need to defend that aspect of the program instead of talking about the skating. There was definitely some sham junk in those articles from nationals, but I'm less sure that the fan reactions to the program they were talking about fall into that category.

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    5. I agree that at Nationals - wow - that panel was going to tear down the FD. The fact that the spin was called wrongly labeled was bad enough - but a level 1 - bullshit. In addition, time violations on lifts when none were called during the gp series. Again bullshit. Seriously since B/S came in third now at Worlds and the top three teams cannot meet until the GP final - V/M can't do Skate America and Cup of Russia. So with D/W choosing first - it will be interesting to see which GP event - they chose - TEB, Cup of China or Japan...

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    6. Japan would actually be the the most beneficial choice for them but if they want to screw with V/M, they'll probably take TEB.

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    7. Their Fed fucked them over good at two Canadians running and just the fact that William Thompson showed up all pompous on fsu to deny it may as well be his signed confession. Considering the one and only spin tool these clowns possess is to say exactly the opposite of what is true.

      That spin was absolutely beautiful and was more than two skaters spinning together and changing positions - Scott catching Tessa's foot mid-spin without it even being perceptible until they smoothly exited the spin (and she lowered her center of gravity) was a gorgeous exit.

      It's opposite day. Call the flaws of lesser skaters beauty spots or "style" and call the assets and achievements of a great team like VM "flaws".

      This has been dirty has hell.

      It's all enabled by both public and media ignorance of figure skating which apparently the sport prefers.

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    8. "It's opposite day. Call the flaws of lesser skaters beauty spots or "style" and call the assets and achievements of a great team like VM "flaws"."

      Another long-time skating fan and I were discussing this very thing. It's like people are now trying to tell us the exact opposite of everything we know about good ice dancing and skating is what's actually true. It's maddening and frustrating. Inside out, upside down. Spin D/W's flaws, like you said, as style or beauty spots. Frentic, unpolished skating (just to get started) is called raw and "skating with abandon" and turned into something good. The team with so many impeccable qualities--too numerous to list--are called flawed and boring.

      I hear you on the dirty as well. This is one of the dirtiest things, if not the dirtiest, I've ever seen happen in this so-called sport.

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  9. So is showing up on this blog, claiming there's "mighty interesting!" new pictures of Scott with Cassandra the new sham? Unless someone cares to provide a link to said pictures, I'm going to assume so. Works great for Scott, I must say. Anything to avoid having to grit his teeth and actually pose next to her.

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    1. 9:38
      Past patterns would suggest there are indeed pictures - or something - they never really have a problem going through with the deed, it's all for the cause.
      My opinion - it's someone involved personally in the shamming who comes here to stir things up, plus there's the added benefit of getting a ton of fans to link to the pictures that everyone knows will be turning up at some point. I wouldn't wonder too hard - they'll surface, VM & friends will not let their efforts go to waste by keeping things private. When did they ever before? Any pictures (including Cassandra sitting with the Moirs at Worlds) is for the benefit of the fans.

      And I hope when pictures do surface, we can all just have a good laugh. It's time for fans to throw this stuff in the trash.

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    2. OC, I think you're right that it was probably Skate Canada who fed Tessa and Scott all that bs about the fan reaction to Carmen. It was just too convenient that during Canadians that was a strong narrative and then the judging for them was crappy.

      Tessa and Scott are being jerked around by all the PTB including their own federation. I have absolutely no respect for Skate Canada.

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    3. 9:56
      The fans who aren't second guessing things or outright believing VM are lying are now probably in the minority. Seems almost funny if they're still taking these pictures for our benefit because the fans are just laughing and rolling their eyes.

      If that's the case, I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures. Maybe Scott can muster up a real smile or at least not look like he wants to flee through the nearest window.

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    4. More and more it appears that the sham was never done for our benefit. We were just the scapegoats and continue to be that.

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    5. And it also appears that Cassandra Hilborn signed on for the sham because she hoped the increased hits to her facebook and twitter would call attention to the modeling type shots she's got prominently featured there.

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    6. I absolutely agree that Cassandra is after exposure. Rather telling that all of her publicly visible pictures were modelling shots during Worlds.

      Of course, there are still those who bemoan how poor Scott can't even get drunk and be kissed on the cheek by his girlfriend without people attacking him for it. *sigh* Poor Scott.

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    1. ya, for what? there is nothing there....

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  11. OC, have you ever read this interview?? Note the brief part about judging ice dance below that I copied and pasted from the interview.

    http://figureskate.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/patrick-ibens-interview/

    “Patrick Ibens Interview
    A Chat with Olympic-Level Figure Skating Judge, Patrick Ibens

    Tony Wheeler: Hello Patrick, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. Can you start by telling me about your own figure skating background, and how long you have been involved in the sport?

    Patrick Ibens: This is my 40th year in figure skating. I started skating when I was 5 years old, and was done by the time I was 18 due to a back injury. There were only a few other male skaters here in Belgium: Eric Kroll, Tom Dujardin, Carl Dujardin, Hendrick Sassen, Danny Dillen, Patrick Van Reeth, and myself. Eric Kroll managed something like 24th at Europeans, which was the biggest success any of us had achieved during the time!

    TW: What are some of the interntational competitions you have been able to judge throughout the years?

    PI: I’ve judged several European, Four Continents, and World Championships, as well as many junior and senior Grand Prix events. I also judged the men’s event in both the Torino 2006 and Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics. Too bad I only was assigned to judge the short program in Vancouver. [Judging panels are now switched up between portions of competitions. Five of the nine judges from the short program were randomly selected to also judge the long program— Ibens was not chosen.]

    TW: Do you judge all four disciplines?

    PI: I only judge singles and pairs. No ice dance for me. I’m a REAL judge!

    TW: Which means?

    PI: That’s an inside joke in figure skating. In ice dance, everyone knows all the results before they even judge, yet they still sit through every practice session from five in the morning until late at night.

    TW: So who DOES determine the ice dance results, then?

    PI: The previous competitions and the country you’re from play a huge part. And I guess from time-to-time, the quality of skating matters. But that’s not my department..

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    1. ^^The whole interview is fascinating and a bit shocking to me. I know I shouldn't be shocked but I still am.

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    2. 7:09

      I feel the same way. I shouldn't be shocked, but I am.

      But this is precisely why it's astonishing how little there is in the skating media about Tessa and Scott's skating and specifically how and why it's beyond anything any other ice-dance team is doing. The skaters, coaches, federation, etc., all know the game. Why is no one "playing" for Virtue-Moir? All that relentless media dumped on us for Davis-White and no one picked up the fight for Tessa and Scott. I'm angry and puzzled.

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    3. I have read that interview, and I quibble with him about Katerina Witt being "art on ice". She was a good looking woman and a good show woman, but most of all she was a determined competitor who never quit on her program. Art-wise, she pumped a lot in her stroking and would pike at the waist, but she had good power and solid basics. So when somebody breaks down skating and judging as this guy does, then turns around and is all "Katerina - she is art!" and tries to quantify what "personality" is - it gets pretty muddied where it doesn't need to be.

      Why is no one playing for Virtue Moir? When has a situation like this existed before. We have an American team and the American media versus a Canadian team and the far less widely read Canadian media, not that the Canadian media is saying much worth saying. The American media is read in Canada, the Canadian media isn't read in the U.S.

      Why didn't anyone take up for the Russians outside of Russia? Competition after competition the spin was always that "Russia" had some streak going with the implication it was thanks to shady dealing, and would the plucky American or Western skater finally break the stranglehold of the hammer and sickle - oh oops, the dark forces won again. It was a faked up storyline - the actual storyline was that for years the Russians were far and away the best at dance and pairs.

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    4. What we have here is basically the American media - which is more widely distributed than any other country's - banging the drum and controlling the narrative about DW. We have one of the only knowledgeable skating personalities/commentators - Tracy Wilson - under contract to an American television network. We have a bunch of logically lazy Skate Canada personalities who constantly promote the personality, passion and excitement memo instead of the skating, which plays into the hands of the DW story. We've further got Skate Canada personalities who have turned the organization into a dysfunctional clown college and they're all strategizing their exits - the president of the damn Fed is looking to get into bed with the ISU - he's not going to fight for VM. Debbi Wilkes is on the hunt for a team who will remain after Sochi and let her glom onto them. They don't care. Virtue Moir served their purpose - won in Vancouver - but celebrity and revenue didn't follow - so screw em.

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    5. When I go back and look at competitions over the past 20 years and the famous rivalries, this one is unprecedented. There aren't that many rivalries of longstanding - most of them played out in one big competition and that was it - like Urmanov versus Stoike and the 1994 Olympics. The two closest comparisons, IMO, are Michelle Kwan versus various US ladies, and the B&S verus Sale & Pelletier situation at the Olympics. Kwan versus Nam versus Cohen versus Hughes was a national rivalry and represented an embarrassment of riches for the US in that era. B&S and Sale & Pelletier are the closest comparison to this situation, and this time the media is on the side of the Americans and Virtue Moir are B&S. Maybe Russia will be on their side as they were on the side of B&S back then.

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  12. V&M's Carmen free dance was hailed "a masterpiece" by the Russian commentators from their network coverage of Worlds 2013. Highly praised by different countries/networks - the performance, execution and even V&M the skaters. These are now on YouTube.


    - Pat

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    1. 10:25 (Pat) - Isn't it incredible how this message wasn't communicated to the ISU or Canadian judges.

      It's very much looking like the ISU didn't care this year about no masterpieces. It was about the US winning ice-dance, regardless. I wonder if they've already decided who wins next year.

      But it is some vindication to have these Carmen programs on youtube with commentary that appropriately calls VM sublime skaters.

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    2. The Canadian judges picking apart VM while inflating Gilles Poirier - and flat out ignoring Piper nearly going down in the mid-line - happened two freaking years in a row, as brazenly as brazen could get. They stuck the shiv in VM and pretty much told the international judging community to have at it.

      That organization is so freaking corrupt. It's ALL about personalities. It's all about "I'm going to get mine." It's all back stabbing, back biting bitchery and makes no bones about it.

      Curious - with Lavoit obviously not doing a damn thing - he's spent the past how long working his contacts with the ISU on an international level so the next phase of his career can be with them, with William Thompson gone- who is actually in charge? You've got an absentee president and a CEO who left and wasn't replaced.

      Are they leaving it all to Debbi? If she wants that mess that they made (with her) she can have it?

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    3. Fuck SC. So now that G/P bombed so badly at Worlds, and Weaver/Poje did better than expected (coming back from their injury), are they going to get their shit together behind V/M and W/P?

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