Per this article, these independent filmmakers reportedly have, among other projects, a competitive figure skating documentary in the works - Ice, Sweat and Tears - as seen through the eyes of Scott Moir and Tessa Virtue.
ETA - it's for cbc, which has a broadcast contract for SC skating, so it is likely going to have a SC skew. Hell, possibly the Markham outfit, as they are based where Tessa and Scott trained, were commissioned by Skate Canada. P.J. Kwong, when she does her pieces for cbs, sings directly out of the SC playbook. So maybe henceforth it should be documentary like this: "documentary".
There are a lot of small, worthy, relatively obscure filmmakers and this outfit got a whole article. I imagine the reason it did was the Virtue/Moir documentary.
I'm sad about it. But at least the documentary will, it says, be on CBC. They won't be charging the public money for it.
Team VM's brazen willingness to use other people and make them unwittingly complicit in selling crap to the public - in this case a team of regional filmmakers who can use the promotion - continues to be arrogant as hell. Maybe the documentary should be called: Will to Win - On Ice and Off.
I'm sure there are other apt titles.
P.S. - this part of the article caught my attention:
Its 16-episode series for faithbased Vision, Driven by Vision, won McNamara a 2009 Gemini Award for best documentary direction.Markham is based in the Detroit/Windsor area. That's the team's background; where they were educated, where many of their film subjects resided. But still, think "faith based" in connection with Skate Canada and the name Barb MacDonald comes to mind.
We know when Jesus is in your heart, anything you do in your own self-interest, any commandments you break, any lies you sell - come "Jesus approved". Inside a particular type of Jesus-frame, lies become "protecting the people I love."
IOW, Jesus is license for ends justifying the means. As I recall, he was a big advocate of that in the New Testament. He must have been, because so many Barb types lie and cut corners in his name. Jesus was also a bit of an elitist. If WE do it for good reasons, Jesus understands. Jesus knows what it's like dealing with THOSE people (outsiders). Jesus is on certain people's sides. If you love Jesus, pretty much every idea you have must have been sent by Him, so proceed with (self) righteousness.
I don't know. Some present-day Christians seem to believe being a Christian requires a whole lot less thought and is a whole lot easier than I used to believe Jesus meant to communicate. I never thought of faith as a rubber stamp - have it and you've got a free pass. It never seemed to be the easy way out, but for a lot of people, it kind of greases the wheels.
Virtue and Moir participating in a documentary also once again calls into question how genuine their desire for privacy really is. How genuine is Tessa's desire for privacy?
In a prior post, the blog wondered if Tessa's extreme reticence in public (refusing to be seen on a bus, walking separately from Scott into any and all banquets, walking apart in corridors) reflected her ultra private nature or if it was more calculated - a desire to not devalue the product by letting people have it for free. Stay under wraps until even the most inoccuous candid goes up in price. Example - their book which contained a lot of unremarkable off-ice photos that Scott had never shown on his own facebook or in a profile picture. The photos in the book didn't prove they were a couple - they were of a figure skating team who were also friends, whose families were friends too - off ice through the years. That's it. But we never saw these simple photos til they went on sale. All of the Jessica/Scott slobber was the stuff we got for free. Here, have some more. No, I insist.
Scott's public "family" album and other albums when his "private" facebook was visible had no Virtues, no Tessa. Cody Hay - yeah! Have some Cody Hay. Tessa? Who's that?
When Scott and Tessa were called on it, Scott produced one "bus" candid from Finlandia (Tessa sitting next to him - dear God) and a semi-candid from the Audrey/Fred photo shoot for his facebook fan page. He hasn't, of course, shared any since. Maybe they're both still recovering from sharing that much.
Tessa has gone through much of this season being ridiculous. In Korea. In many interviews. But a documentary - no problem.
So what is it - a documentary documentary - or another Journey From Childhood Dream To Gold - i.e. - counterprogramming? A vehicle in which they use carefully edited realities to embed more of their fictitious narrative?
Their pattern has always been to throw fans a bone, tease the truth a bit before lowering the boom with massive sham. Going back to just prior to HPC 2009, their remarks about their Mahler program: "They're happy, they're in love, and it definitely came naturally." "just being in Paris makes us excited."
BOOM - Dominican photos.
"romantic trip to Monaco." "seriously, we're going to Monaco."
BOOM - hi - it's Alma - nope, not showing you Olympic or Worlds photos but LOOK who was REALLY in Monaco with Scott!! JESSICA!
And now recently:
"My idea of romance is someone you can laugh with and be completely yourself."
"Mine is that everyone has that other half you have to find in the world."
Fans: "Are they finally relaxing?"
BOOM.
That's why I know where my money's going.
I hope they leave Jessica Dube out of it...seems she's busy building a new career with a new partner, no need to hide her relationship with Bryce anymore... Maybe I am expecting too much, but what would spice up skating again heading into a home worlds and another Olympics than the confession that they are FINALLY in love... look how much we have changed between the two olympics- one they go in determined to win at home at all costs, the other they go to to enjoy 'for each other,' because in the time in between they fell in love. GREAT story line, even if they've truly been together before the first olympics... I could see the story changing soon.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, of course, but I think Jessica deep-sixing her partnership with Bryce also deep-sixed their off-ice relationship.
DeleteFaith based film crew? Excuse me while I throw up in my mouth a little. I am losing interest in their game and know many other fans are feeling the same. You can sort of see the wheels falling off and I only hope the resulting carnage doesn't permanently damage their reputation.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree that it's true many "Christians" use their faith to justify the means, it of course doesn't mean they all do that. That is perhaps a subject for another blog - I'm sure everyone has their personal experiences and examples for both sides.
ReplyDeleteHowever, it does look like Barb is someone with ties to faith-based organizations and she personally has indulged in self-promotion and dishonesty. My concern with this documentary team is, did someone like Barb recommend they do a feature on Tessa and Scott, and are they innocently being used by SC and/or V/M to further more lies? It would be very sad if down the line it looks like they intentionally hoaxed the public - but what if they didn't know the truth at the time?
Is there any way to send these people a link to this blog? At least they should know there is a different side. Then whatever they decide to do will be up to them and they won't be duped.
How sad is it that we expect Tessa and Scott to continue lying instead of expecting honesty. Could this be the camera crew that was with them that last day in Paris? If so, then I'm positive Tessa and Scott have been feeding them the fake personas as "truth". Wanna bet they filmed Scott-Jessica at the Louvre?
Gag me.
I'm not at all painting practicing Christians with the same brush - far from it. However, there are plenty of people who manage to turn their professed value system inside-out without ever owning their hypocrisy, even to themselves. It's not easy practicing one's faith in good faith, whether one is Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, etc. etc. Most religions have more in common than not - the moral code is similar, the ethical standards are similar.
DeleteBarb has been a very public Christian. A professional Christian, if you will. Yet she works concertedly with Skate Canada to get this Jessica hoax across. There is no way this is justified by any teaching of the deity she worships - i.e., Jesus Christ. You know the drill - if you love God, and something works - praise God. Just slap God's name on it and you're covered. The irony is Jesus called those types out in his teachings. But it remains popular.
Christians who practice in good faith know that believing in God doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your choices. Oh - it worked - God must have wanted it. However, there are plenty of people who manage to turn their professed value system inside-out without ever owning their hypocrisy, even to themselves.
The reality of Scott and Tessa is they could accomplish their agenda ethically. They're not torn between a rock and a hard place. There's nothing necessary in the road they've taken. It's been their choice. Tracy Wilson said they do things for the right reasons. Problem with that is it's not necessary to do a lot of what they've done for any reason. There has always been a better way.
This whole season is going off the rails for Tessa and Scott. When is something finally going to give? I've enjoyed the candid conversation that's been going on here for the last couple of days. Glad to see that it's happening somewhere. All the other usual haunts are dead. Why? I think everyone can sense that something is amiss.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to be quite disgusted if this documentary is nothing but lies. Faith based? No thanks. They need to start phasing Jessica out and I -really- hope that her current FB profile pic is the first step. No Scott! I quite enjoyed how cozy she looked with Sebastien in the kiss&cry at Nationals.
Its becoming a train wreck and I can't look away. To the Anon above, it's true the other forums are dead. FanForum has been on the same page of a thread for over a week. What happened to the voracious T/S shippers?? Are they now realizing they have been had? If so, T/S are in serious trouble.
ReplyDeleteWe remember that a very popular angle from T/S shippers after the Olympics was that T/S were in love and didn't realize it. Yes, I understand that's a very patronizing view to take of a couple of grown up figure skaters who aren't between the pages of a romance novel, but how else were many fans supposed to reconcile the reality that these two figure skaters were obviously in love and yet claiming to be platonic? Fans didn't pull the theory out of thin air, they were faced with two pieces of contradictory information - the first being T/S's behavior on and off the ice, the other being T/S's denials about being a couple. Tessa and Scott tried to manage the on-and-off-ice piece of it by bleating on about "characters on the ice" to which I, and not a few other fans, wished to reply "Fuck you." There's only so much insufferable patronizing even lowly figure skating fans can choke on.
DeleteActually no, fans don't always want actors to be together. And actually, and as Scott and Tessa ignored, a lot of the shipping came from how they acted OFF the ice. And while many fans may idealize celebrities and not realize even local celebs lie their faces off, these fans were not stupid about what they were seeing.
So, the only way to believe Scott and Tessa's words while reconciling the obvious on ice and off was to say "they don't know it yet." And what did Scott do after the Olympics? He talked about the fan mail - laughing that people were saying: "just date - give it a try!" or "You're in love, you just don't know it." He was mocking fans for believing his and Tessa's lies and giving himself way too much credit for their ability to make their lies convincing. His tone was incredulous, like - what, they think if I was in love I wouldn't know it or do something about it?
That was the message behind his remarks. Those crazy fans. Of course he and Tessa were busy mind fucking the fans, and the only choice these fans had, if they wished to believe Tessa and Scott (and Tessa and Scott wanted to be believed, right?) - happened to be the cock-eyed "They don't know it yet" theory, so screw you Scott. It's your messed up, incoherent, contradictory public relations that drove these theories.
Well I for one hope that this documentary airs after the Sochi Olympic games. In terms of lack of activity on other message boards, I really wouldn't be too worried about it, LOL..If you thought that V/Ms thread is slow at FF, than Davis/White's thread is in need of CPR. Indeed very interesting posts over the last few days. I just hope that they have great skates at 4CCs and worlds.
ReplyDeleteI'll try to wait until after it airs to pass judgement. But the truth is, I wanted to buy their book like crazy, but now I know it's full of lies and I know I am not going to enjoy it as much. I think what is happening at the threads is natural, let's wait until the big events to see what happens. I, for one, am a lurker, and I am sure there are many more. And the main reason I am a lurker is because nobody is permitted to talk about the TRUTH. I do hope Scott and Tessa will stop lying soon, though. It's becoming tiresome, and if it's tiresome for me, for them it must be awful.
ReplyDeleteThe book is nice for the pictures. Probably many stories in it are the truth, especially about the younger years, but since they weave so much of their "relationship" into everything, in one way or another, it's hard to know what is real, what is half-real, what is completely made-up. It's a shame.
ReplyDeleteI, too, have gone mostly to lurking. It's frustrating not to be able to talk about the truth, and what's really on our minds. At least during the competitions there are still some good posts that are competition-related. It's a mystery to me that it's acceptable to indulge in all the hand-wringing and speculation about what they're thinking and doing and desiring when it comes to the "rivalry" with Meryl and Charlie, or to the coaches and training-center, or the choreographers - most of it downright insulting to their intelligence. And yet this subject is taboo.
I'll buy it, then. I don't know what to think about Marina and Igor. I adore some of their choreos, but others are pretty meh. Saying that the choreographers for the two most succesful couples in ice dancing are rubbish is lolworthy, imo.
ReplyDelete"It's a mystery to me that it's acceptable to indulge in all the hand-wringing and speculation about what they're thinking and doing and desiring when it comes to the "rivalry" with Meryl and Charlie, or to the coaches and training-center, or the choreographers - most of it downright insulting to their intelligence. And yet this subject is taboo."
ReplyDeleteThe point. It should be the time to break the code of silence.
As soon as I read this news I firstly laughed and then I started to think about a second fiction-story, treating lies and manipulating fans and things. But not a book, a tv program of course. The return.
It's funny because we don't actually know what they will use to come clean and what type of media will serve to their revelations, I hope they'll not speculate to tell the truth as they did to tell their lies.
I agree with pretty much everything OC says about the Christian angle on this blog, but as someone who has always lived in Ontario, Vision is not an evanglical type channel, it has a diverse range of "spiritual" programming, most of the time borderline new-agey. The "Christian" channel a la the 700 club is CTS. So I don't know that there's reason to think this has anything to do with the Barb stuff. That being said, I won't be surprised at anything at this point. And lies? yah I think we can expect plenty of those. I'm so glad I never bought the book, I couldn't afford it and got it from the library, but at the time I didn't think this was all for real so thankfully I didn't waste my money.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the anon above that perhaps FF etc is slowing down because some people are realizing they can't deny what's going on anymore. It's just depressing how lifeless it is there. Shippers still give a half hearted oh aren't they adorable, and around competitions they'll be serious discussions mixed with panic attacks about MC. For a long time, the fan police were on the offensive, proclaiming TS were NOT together, sometimes even without provocation, either condescendingly "does ANYONE take that crazy blog lady seriously?" or panicky overkill of "TS would NEVER lie!!!". Now it's never mentioned.
I would LOVE to think the documentary was a step towards coming clean, but I'd have to be an idiot. Past is precedent. These people weren't just malicious when they were in control, playing fans for fools, working them over, pushing buttons and mocking them, but what they did when the blog started up was obvious. They shut down and regrouped and were absolutely determined that the "blog" (and others) wouldn't win. The poor management, poor PR, exploiting the public, making them patsies, squeezing their wallets with lies - EH. The fact that they weren't getting the results they wanted and that the Roots deal went down the toilet - who cares.
ReplyDeleteThe critics must not win. That was the vibe. Power-trippers pissed as hell to be called out. THAT's the prevailing focus now. Getting back, one-upping, winning.
This is a group that appears to resent the public a whole lot and really hate fans, and they get a lot of pleasure in taking their resentment out on fans, while getting pious about the great Canadian audiences. They're complete charletons with that because what they say and how they ACT are opposite. In any situation, actions matter more than words, so here, their words are meaningless.
So - Scott makes a big deal of starting a fan page and of course it ends up hurting the feelings of a lot of fans because he lied about why he was starting it. It ended up weeding the "preferred" fans from the "don't count" fans and those in the latter group found those in the former group lording it over them, all because Scott's mouth (keyboard) started moving, as usual, before his brain. He lied that the fanpage was inclusive, when it was actually where he banished the unwanted from his "personal" facebook but keep the "cool kids." He said he was shutting down his facebook - then didn't. He shared more "secret" stuff there. Way to unnecessarily hurt people's feelings, all because they lack discipline with this and are uninterested in acquiring any. So, nice to see fans rate such consideration.
As the previous facebook venues became too restricted for wide sham dissemination (or for the shamsters to get a good idea of how much of it was getting out), Alma & Carol and other "friends of" made sham cameos on Scott's fan page. You might not rank for my "personal" facebook but I have to use you for something. Have some sham! God knows I'm not doing anything else on my "fan" page.
That's all I've seen - real resentment from these people. Here comes Barb up the shoulder of the road, shoveling sham references into twitter and Above the Crowd and Icenetwork. Called on that, she regrouped and will come at it another way.
Many times before my first reaction was always a stupidly hopeful: "Oh, they feel bad. They're sorry. They're being genuinely nice, trying to be a little authentic." Because really, that's what non-crazy control freak people would try to do. But of course, non-crazy, non-control freak, non-arrogant people wouldn't be in this set-up in the first place.
ReplyDeleteAnd each time - BAM. More Big Foot sham than ever.
Look at how things stand. Above the Crowd is going to have trouble shoving in "Jessica, Scott" without it being pointed out. Icenetwork too. They've tried to use Scott's fan page but it gets busted. Canadian competitions they have a drill - Scott watches Jessica skate and the two of them are in proximity at some point (or she's vis a vis his family) so it's duly noted by fans the romance still thrives.
Oh, I forgot - the wedding circuit has also been mocked to a fare thee well. And, the blog is getting read a lot, and some people are taking as given Jessica and Scott are fake.
So, let's counter program big. Documentary. It's a documentary! Hand-held cameras and bad lighting and sound! It has to be real! Aha! Comeback for the sham side!
I figure that's the mindset. Because all I get from these people is resentment over being called out and a determination to win and regain control, and they don't give a shit about the ethical stuff, or about making fools of people. They're just pissed someone gets away with saying that about them, and they're going to do it again, because if they stop, they'll be admitting they're guilty.
Which of course - they are. But that's not what counts to them. They're entitled to control. The patsies aren't supposed to push back. It feels as if they think they're victims, when the reality is, all that's happening here is their targets pushing back. Is that not permitted? Why are THEY pissed? They're the liars. Fans get to be pissed - they're the ones getting set up, hoaxed and taken for a ride. What is THIS group, the sham group, mad about?
That's the confusing part. Resentment? At what? Are fans obligated to take as much bullshit as this crowd dishes out? Do fans not know their place? Are we supposed to automatically acknowledge the superiority of SC and the skaters? Is it our job to be stooges and we're acting out of turn?
While feelings can't be helped, this group - this sham group - is not entitled to be pissed off at fans for calling them out. THEY'RE the ones who have not just lied, but marketed the lie AT fans and it cost fans' money. It also made fools of them. Fans can't be pissed at that?
Just not sure what leg Team Virtue Moir thinks it's standing on here, being mad-wise.
You said it all perfectly!! At this point, I hope they'll decide to tell the truth soon, because most fans visit this blog and know the truth. What pisses me off is the book, actually, because they made money from lies. I hate that. The sooner they cone out, the better for their dignity.
ReplyDeleteTo Anon at 11:38 A.M.:
ReplyDelete"Saying that the choreographers for the two most succesful couples in ice dancing are rubbish is lolworthy, imo."
Well, that depends on what you value in choreography. Igor and Marina are obviously not stupid coaches/choreographers - they know how to manipulate CoP better than any other ice dance coaches out there, which is why their teams have consistent success. They are also very, very good at spotting young talent, taking them into their stable when they are juniors or even younger, and making sure all their teams are impeccably trained. They have also, between the two of them, shown rare moments of actual artistry in their choreography - Marina's choreography of V&M's Mahler being one of those moments, and Igor's choreography of Silverstein & Pekarek's amazing Tori Amos FD from way back in the pre-CoP days (1999-2000) being another.
That being said, most of their choreography is trite, cookie-cutter, repetitive, and completely lacking in originality. The programs end up being well-received because of two things, mainly - the fact that their teams are well-trained enough to skate these high-difficulty pieces, and the fact that they have the best teams in the world to skate them. Having talent like V&M and D&W means that you can give them cliched programs with music that has been used a zillion times and they will still pull them off and make them look way better than they actually are.
The last thing that's going to happen is the Shpilband/Zoueva conversation brought over here, especially since trite, cliche, overused music - like Funny Face and Mahler for example?? - is a matter of opinion, in my opinion. I disagree with that assessment of Zoueva/Shpilband very strongly, but most of all, the topic is already discussed and discussed and discussed everywhere else. So not here.
ReplyDelete"trite, cookie-cutter, repetitive, and completely lacking in originality"
ReplyDeleteI am definitely pro-Marina and Igor, but I do feel their choreo this year seems a bit tired, although the quote is harsher than what I feel. Maybe it's just because I became a fan during the Olympics and there were mutliple masterpieces on display there. Especially die Fleidermaus doesn't seem to have much new at all, every lift is just a slight variation of something from previous years.
I love the intricate CoP moves that they come up with, and I think they have had several very fresh programs. I only feel some unorginality this year for the first time (and I have gone back and watched their previous work). I think they have been very original but are now starting to repeat themselves. And if we're talking overall choregraphy in terms of artistry, the epic type programs I think ^you're referring to, who IS making programs like that these days? I hear Dean touted a lot, but personally don't get his programs at all, they are very boring to me. At some point it comes down to taste I guess.
I'm last anon and OC you posted at the same time. Feel free to delete my comment, I totally understand your wish not to rehash that here.
ReplyDeleteIt's okay - I just don't want to get derailed (when it doesn't reference the blog's focus or a relevant tangent) :) but what's been said so far does no harm.
DeleteAdding - what will the documentary accomplish if, as we have every reason to expect, its actual purpose is to reinforce the status quo? Another Big Lie, this time upping the ante with respected filmmakers made into accomplices. WHY? Go deeper into the hole. WHY?
ReplyDeleteWhere did such pathalogical entitlement come from? Who has ever seen a crowd, outside movies and novels, so self-righteous about their right to scam people?
They're standing up for their beliefs and revealing their priorities. Being Right. Even if we're wrong, fuck you, we're right. Even if we exploited you and you figured it out, screw you. We're not giving you the satisfaction. This is important.
Yes, important. More important than doing their actual jobs. The mindset that led Skate Canada into the mess it's in now* is displayed here. Petty, personal, power struggles with their own public. Resentment of both public and sponsors. Absolutely neurotic obsession with control married to an unusual level of incompetence. How much energy has been spent on this to date versus the energy spent trying to get that organization to function (God forbid thrive - just function).
_____________________________
* I've heard stuff about SC's competitions. For example, at major competitions there may not be enough programs for the paying public even though there's hardly a capacity crowd. You can hunt down a volunteer who might try to dig one up. Or - if you order tickets for London Worlds, don't count on actually having the tickets in your hand come showtime, even if you live out of the country. You might have to fly in, check into your hotel, then go to the arena with fingers crossed hoping they'll produce what you paid for.
People can romanticize a volunteer-based organization all they want and some fans like it because at Canadian competitions they feel as if they can practically mingle with the figure skaters. But even high schools and churches run by volunteers reliably get the programs out and the tickets mailed. Fans can't count on Skate Canada to manage this? They're left biting their nails?
It's such a trashy attitude towards the paying public. They have an opinion of themselves they haven't earned. If you treat people like crap, as if they should count themselves fortunate they have the opportunity to dig in for a few hundred dollars to go to one of these things, you really shouldn't be surprised if - in any economy - fewer and fewer people find themselves eager to pay for the privilege of being taken for granted.
It makes me think of Scott's recent audio interview talking about the flight to Moncton - he and Tessa sat separately with family/friends and of course there were also those "dedicated" fans on the same small plane. They'd attend if the event were in Nunavut, Scott says.
Well okay then. They've got fans who would dog sled it to a Canadians. No need to pay attention to those losers.
"Tessa and Scott tried to manage the on-and-off-ice piece of it by bleating on about "characters on the ice" to which I, and not a few other fans, wished to reply "Fuck you." "
ReplyDeleteLMAO that's what a lot of people are thinking...
"* I've heard stuff about SC's competitions. For example, at major competitions there may not be enough programs for the paying public even though there's hardly a capacity crowd."
ReplyDeleteI went to SCI this year, first time at a competition, and was shocked (well not really but you know what I mean) that programs weren't being sold in the hallways like every hockey game or concert I've been to. My mother is disabled so we couldn't go scavenger-hunting to find whatever secret location they were being sold from.
"Well okay then. They've got fans who would dog sled it to a Canadians. No need to pay attention to those losers."
What interview was this? I get that some fans get stalkerish, but they probably aren't the same fans who have been going to the full Nats competition for years and will go anywhere in the country for it. Nationals is almost empty and you manage to make the dedication of your core audience into a negative? I think the "unimportant women" point on a previous thread is a good one.
It was a recent audio interview but I didn't make a note of with whom because I downloaded it and no longer have the link. Scott basically said he and Tessa don't worry about being recognized together overseas while traveling but at home they try to do things like be in airport corridors separately. WHY? They don't want to be recognized by WHOM? Unless while walking together in view of dedicated fans one of them is also toting a baby, what the hell is the problem? Of course if they're separate and one is toting a little kid - also a problem, so again, what's this fol der rol for? How many fans are likely to recognize them even together, anyway? And if some of these home grown fans see them sitting together on a plane - so fucking what? Suppose half the plane is full of dedicated, elevator-rock listening ladies en route to a competition (you know once you hit forty or fifty that's it - your music becomes muzak and you're gonna get your ick all over those nice Canadian figure skating kids) and the plane has a smattering of Moirs and Virtues, and Scott and Tessa are sitting together. WHAT? What the fuck is the problem?
ReplyDeleteThey're ridiculous.
He and other skaters take a tone when they talk about "our audience". It couldn't be clearer what they're talking about. Obviously, if these fans are that dedicated to figure skating, carry a few extra pounds and dress up in Canadian colors - they're losers, a little pathetic, and need to be patronized.
I recall once a dj talking about possible music for an exhibition and Scott saying they were limited in the music they could really use because of "our audience." Bryce Davison apparently bought into the idea that the music from WWW would set "our audience" to blubbering, which in turn would influence the judges.
Scott's many references to "very dedicated fans" with the tone of "We all know what I'm saying here."
When women are fans, they take a hit. One member of Kings of Leon actually bitched that the moms of their fans were also becoming fans. He pretty much said that's not what they wanted.
Figure skating - oh dear God, please let us get some hockey loving men. Please let us get some people who count. Please not these grandma, aunt, cafeteria lady and school teacher types.
They just don't make sense. As you mentioned, the stalkerish fans aren't the ones on the plane or snow shoe-ing it to Nunavit, har de har har. They've been going for years. Maybe they'll be over familiar and chew Scott and Tessa's ears off? Does walking separately and sitting separately prevent that?
"Scott basically said he and Tessa don't worry about being recognized together overseas while traveling but at home they try to do things like be in airport corridors separately."
ReplyDeleteScott said this? Good heavens. I don't know whether to laugh or scream. Is he for real? How in the world did they get such grandiose ideas about themselves, that they feel they are uppermost on other people's minds? And WHO CARES what people see-think-want-speculate? He's going to live his life carefully planning where he sits and walks just to control what fans think? What stupidity.
He and Tessa need to learn to live with some integrity. If this documentary turns out to be another load of crap he and his equally stupid skating partner will not only lose what little credibility they have left, I wouldn't be surprised they also lose a great many fans. It's too bad, because the fans are the wheels that grease a public career and they can't continue to shovel lies at them and patronize them and still keep their goodwill.
"How in the world did they get such grandiose ideas about themselves, that they feel they are uppermost on other people's minds? And WHO CARES what people see-think-want-speculate? He's going to live his life carefully planning where he sits and walks just to control what fans think? What stupidity."
ReplyDeleteNo kidding. They may be talented figure skaters but they behave like puppets of Skate Canada and as Thompson and Wilkes are grandiose, there you go. This is behind what they're doing - they want to control what people think. You can see it in the haste with which Tessa puts adverbs and pronouns to rights, or slides in a frame that lets us know things are separate - even if they're talking about an unrelated topic.
It's so Debbi - Queen of telling people what to think, and of course, we'll immediately think it. Everybody else in the world fails at this or hasn't thought of it - but it's the hub around which Debbi's persona turns. It so laughable you could cry. See? Simple. Why didn't the rest of the world ever think of this way of managing their environment? Use your words!
Fine, but then the skaters and their families LISTENED to her. Maybe that's why she has such a high opinion of her ability to influence thoughts. Scott, Tessa, the Moirs and Virtues listened. Among them all there's not two critical thinking brain cells to rub together. There are kids at Oxbow right now with more common sense. And Team Virtue Moir still listen to their Fed despite the mess the Fed has made of the organization.
I want to add something about how fans are treated, and why. The fact that the demo is middle-aged women - or perceived to be middle-aged women, often in groups with other middle-aged women, or with an adult (female) child who is clearly a middle-aged woman in training. These "dedicated" fans that are patronized and disregarded to a fare-thee-well.
How do they reconcile this attitude with:
Alma Moir
Carol Moir
Marj Carey
Pat Jackson
Diana Mabee
Marina Zoueva
Debbie "Mac" and
Most of the volunteers with Skate Canada
Tracy Wilson
Sandra Bezic
Kate Virtue
What's the difference? Money? A better haircut (don't look at the Moir women for that one). Better dressed? No, the Moir women also dress for comfort not to mention those "Believe" sweatshirts. Money? If you're going to every skating competition Skate Canada puts on you're not poor.
So the people who are good enough to basically run the Federation, take care of the skaters, coach the skaters, advise the skaters, aren't good enough to be treated or spoken of with respect as FANs of the skaters.
I know a lot about fan behavior. Not via message boards, but in-person behavior when the celeb is at "work" but fans have access, and when a fan recognizes a celeb out in public. I know what even otherwise normal people do in the company of some kind of celebrity. I know what a lot of public figures think about it. I know what fans do at events like dinners or ceremonies where they can talk to their faves.
Knowing this, I also know there's no excuse for Team Virtue Moir and Skate Canada. They can't go bleating about special circumstances, unique, and all that. Even if they recruit members of the media - and they will - to pat us all on the head about what it's like inside versus outside and what it is that fans don't understand - I know damn well what it is they think fans don't understand, and there's no excuse for them. They do what they do because they want to, not because they have to, and that says a lot about them that I wish it didn't.
The interview with Scott, where he rambles on about keeping himself separate from Tessa was on a radio show just prior to Nationals. The audio can be found here: http://www.cjbk.com/Episodes.aspx?PID=1926
ReplyDeleteThank you!! :)
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:36
ReplyDeleteI can't believe it. Scott really did say they deliberately don't sit/walk together to not be bothered by fans. And this is about his "beloved Canadian fans."
Of course I think anyone understands there are some weird and creepy fans out there and a public person has to have some strategy in place for protection. I've mostly thought that referred to dangerous, stalkerish-type fans, not just the fan who might - dear God! - Recognize them! Or think they're "together!"
What a bizarre world they live in, where they must be careful not to be seen next to each other on a plane or the mall. Is it just me or do they seem hyper-sensitive? And mostly just to "protect" themselves against the thought that they might (gasp!) be a couple?
I also must add - I sincerely hope they don't intend to make this upcoming documentary another installment in their platonic-relationship b.s.
It's totally bizarre. OMG, no, we never sit together on the plane! We can never be seen together in shopping malls. We do not ever see each other outside of the skating rink. What.the.actual.fuck.
ReplyDeleteI vehemently refused to believe the sham until fairly recently. Things had never quite added up for me but I came from the world where it was forbidden to speak up about such things. The turning point for me was the proof positive that the whole estrangement business was complete and utter bullshit. From there, it was easy to see things from another angle.
I'm pretty sure there are so much more proofs for each of their lies, and this constantly message "we try to avoid each other outside the rink" doesn't make me think the opposite.
ReplyDelete"What a bizarre world they live in, where they must be careful not to be seen next to each other on a plane or the mall."
ReplyDeleteThey just THINK they must avoid each other, but they don't need to at all. Talk about weird perceptions about reality.
Did they come up with this on their own do you think? Or is it mostly all these erroneous views that come from others (like Skate Canada) about the danger of being real?
Anon at 3:12 - Do you mind if I ask what you mean by this?
ReplyDelete"but I came from the world where it was forbidden to speak up about such things."
Not asking you to get personal, I'm just wondering if this ties in to the reason why this is a forbidden topic outside of this blog.
3:12 Anon here. No worries, I don't mind. I think anyone who frequented the Fanforum thread back when it was hustling and bustling remembers when someone (probably the blog owner) came on and made the claims that all was not as it seems. Anyone who spoke up in support was lambasted. Every once in a while, someone at the Facebook page or on LJ will bring it up or link to this blog and they're immediately shot down and their post deleted or censored.
ReplyDeleteIt's like you cannot talk about it "out there" at all. I'm not an active poster or participant at any site but I have been reading and keeping tabs on it all for some time now.
I wonder if they have any idea how idiotic the mall comment sounds. I mean you either don't go to malls together (except on official business (eg bodyshop perhaps) in which case you WOULD walk together) or you go to malls together frequently enough that it's something that comes to mind in an interview. ?!?!?!?!?!?
ReplyDeleteI was telling yet another friend about the blog. Again, with her, "pageants" served to help her get the mindset. The topic of being special or thinking you're smarter came up, and she was all - no matter how smart you are, nobody's that smart. To which I said - BUT, you have to be smart to know that, and they're not.
ReplyDelete:D It was that kind of conversation.
As ridiculous as it all is she said - maybe they're the kind of people who like and need things to be complicated, who need issues, because it gives them something to do and justifies their jobs. And makes them feel important. So this is why they keep coming up with more occasions why it's important to sham (as the overkill mystified us both at first).
And of course, I think this describes Debbi and Skate Canada perfectly. And they occupy such a small universe (they're certainly not out in the corporate sector even if connections there would help) that they get off on the power tripping part of it vis a vis fans. It's like a fix for them - I believe it.
We talked about the sponsorship situation at SC and I showed her the post about the USFSA sponsors versus SC and at one point she said what about ROOTS? Why can't they get Roots as a sponsor. And I told her that story.
Basically she believes the sham has to be the reason why the Roots deal went south and also why they're not with IMG.
She has, as Barb MacDonald might say, a "rich background" in the entertainment industry - theatre, television, film, from a number of perspectives (she's been at big agency shops and worked in theatre, film and television production, among other experience so she has a decent grasp of the public arena matrix. She's known a lot of "talent").
She thinks it makes pretty good sense that as Debbi et al are most certainly not doing the jobs reflected in their titles, that they would look for reasons to make the sham and associated games a bigger deal than it needs to be, to make themselves key players and more important.
What we both have trouble understanding is how Thompson, et al manage to play off the sponsorship situation and who ultimately is responsible for the CEO and the directors, and who is the person or people not doing THEIR jobs, enabling this, buying the b.s. Thompson shovels (or not) and letting it continue. Who is the decider or deciders and why doesn't somebody step in? It's not worth it? There's not enough money at stake? Too sticky? What?
"Basically she believes the sham has to be the reason why the Roots deal went south and also why they're not with IMG."
DeleteHow very sad. Tessa and Scott are a PR-managers dream. They're talented, beautiful, have charisma, they are able to come across as genuine friends-next-door.
So basically they've thrown away their great potential for marketing because they choose to remain in their sham-bubble instead of growing up and dealing with the realities of life head-on.
And maybe they're sacrificing themselves for Wilkes, et al. Maybe Wilkes & Co. want to leave on their own terms (after Sochi) and if Scott & Tessa admitted their real status it would be immediately clear that Skate Canada sold their lies for them - and so whither Skatebuzz? Well, just take Debbi's face off it and you're fine. Surely the entire ship wouldn't go down but sure, fans would pretty much know the most prominant officials were part of this. Do Scott & Tessa feel responsible to these people - to the woman who is busily inserting herself into the best sight lines of their interviews so as to leach off the public interest in Scott and Tessa? Do they really feel obligated to protect Wilkes & Co. for what they've done for them?
DeleteI suspect that's part of it - if Tessa/Scott admit things now they might be able to move on but it will certainly expose Debbi, the CEO and other directors as smarmy charletons. Maybe they think they owe them. I think that's a stupid and immature attitude, if so. Protecting them as already cost them more than they probably know and will only find out the longer it goes on. Debbi did them no favors. She served herself every step of the way, as she does with all the skaters. That goes for the lot of them - the CEO and other directors.
[Who is the decider or deciders and why doesn't somebody step in? It's not worth it? There's not enough money at stake? Too sticky? What?]
ReplyDeleteNot long ago fsu had a thread where a few people were starting to go in the direction of these same questions, as far as who is ultimately responsible for these people having these positions? How is Skate Canada run? I thought it was very interesting that instead of these questions provoking a thoughtful discussion, the whole thing was just ignored. Then some posters jumped in to say what a wonderful organization SC is. So somehow there is a feeling out there that SC cannot/should not be analyzed in depth?
It looks like Skate Canada has been inept for so many years, this is just part of Canadian skating culture at this point. But how can a sports' federation continue to sustain itself or do the job it's supposed to do for the athletes if it's rife with corruption, politics, massive incompetence, and added to that this attitude of condescension toward the fans, who incidentally are the ones who ultimately pay their bills?
Their hubris is just astonishing - to think that as a fed, they got involved in advising skaters to create fake personas and then went on to be part of implementing the fake on a grand scale. I think you're right, they think they're "working" when they're in fact just thinking up new ways to promote their grand scheme for V/M PR. How do they get away with this? It doesn't look like there is any entity in Canada that can force some accountability. I would love to see exactly what led up to the sponsor-loss. What were these bozos doing in the months just prior? What kind of money/promotion (which costs $$)/perks/bribes have been paid out to the Moirs, Virtues, Dubes (especially the Dubes and Jessica - she has benefited a ton and I want to know exactly what that has co$$$t Skate Canada). Exactly what have they done/are doing to attract sponsors? Exactly how do they stage an event like SC? Does it include penciling in sham-activity/promotion? They certainly seem to have time for that kind of stuff instead of things like making sure the event programs are easily available.
And speaking of SC and their incompetent advice to the skaters - has anyone else taken note of the fact that not a single picture from the Canadians' banquet - nor other off-ice pictures - have surfaced anywhere? In years past, the skaters have shared their photos of Nationals and the GP events through their facebook accounts or twitter, their websites, etc (all except Tessa and Scott, of course, as has been pointed out). This year? Zilch. Not from anyone. Can someone say - Control Freaks?
How come Scott and Tessa don't run as far away from SC as they can? SC has dug a huge hole for themselves and it pains me to see V/M being a part of this.
For what it's worth, there are a few pictures of some sort of off-ice gathering on Skate Canada Western Ontario's facebook page. V/M even appear in a few of them. That said, the question of where are the rest of the pics from the other skaters is a good question.
ReplyDeleteIf it is indeed because of SC's directive that off-ice photos are not released, or delayed for months, isn't this like shooting themselves in the foot as far as PR? The fans love the photos, and it's great exposure for the skaters. Surely this cannot be another of their ridiculous reactions to the blog?
DeleteSo SC has two websites (the official SC site and Skatebuzz) and each of these sites links also to a facebook page....Where are their pictures? No, I don't mean the one photo per event put out in the newspapers, I mean all the activity that is part of an event (skater-signings, banquet, off-ice warming up, etc etc). I hope they're not hoarding pictures for their Above the Crowd newsletter - those pictures are invariably as boring as the few that make it to their official facebook pages. The really nice photos have traditionally come from skaters.
(Speaking of which, why do they have an Above the Crowd in this day and age of internet?)
To the Anon below, I did see that the Ontario Club put out a very nice album. They must have missed the SC memo.
It's still of something called the team room with skaters holding beverage cans and eating off paper plates. It's not the banquet. Did they not HAVE a banquet this time? If they did, how is it nobody's facebook had a single photo of it? Are they being saved for Above the Crowd with its barely visible low resolution non-click-able images. We know SC - the less fans can see, the better. Or what? And how is it that no skaters have publicly visible photos? Did Debbi make a speech at the dinner as she's done before? If so, why?
Delete