Goldenskate said this about Papadakis & Cizeron at the NHK Trophy (Virtue and Moir back on top with Record Scores):
First to skate the free dance of the top three were Papadakis and Cizeron. They opened their routine to “Stillness”, “Oddudua,” and “Happiness Does Not Wait” with a stunning straight line lift that covered the whole ice surface.
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| Hawayek Baker |
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| The Shibs |
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| Cappellini & Lanotte |
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| Virtue Moir Small non-element lift. Compare to Papadakis Cizeron's entrance to their straight line |
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| Virtue Moir |
Clearly, Papadakis/Cizeron's lift is nonsense.
I've put these here before, but I invite any Papadakis/Cizeron fan to just name one thing (aligning with how ice dance is supposedly scored), which explains the World Championship difference between this:
2014 13th place finish
and this
2015 first place finish.
Other stuff:
Russian Olympic gold medalists Tatiana Volosozhar and Maxim Trankov, who until a year ago were "not dating each other" (Maxim even weighed in in solidarity with Scott Moir, using Moir as a co-example of how fans wrongly assume skating partners are coupled off the ice), are married and expecting a daughter. It's very cozy, and Tatiana anticipates no issues returning to touring in shows because:
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| Very nice. |
Also both Tatiana and Maxim emphasize that Tatiana has received a lot of advice from "many of the girls" about pregnancy and how it impacts your skating, particularly if you remain a competitive athlete.
Miko Ando has a child, but she retired after deciding to have the baby. That's not what Volosozhar is talking about. Oh well.
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| Tatiana with many of the girls. |
Other people are also pregnant, but thank the Lord have long since been written out of the Virtue Moir storyline:
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| Guess she's officially hot and heavy with someone else. |
Oh yes, this:
This is Cizeron's instagram elegy to their loss at NHK. They appear to believe they lost, when the reality is, VM won. This is just a screen cap, but I invite their fans to look at the alignment of their respective working blades. Their free legs. Knees.
Re: your comment in the last post about P/C skating a bit better and having more difficult material in 2014-15, I had noticed that as well. That season they were still obviously getting scores and OTT praise they didn't deserve, but especially in the fall, I at least got the sense that they were actually trying. Now their skating has gotten lazier and they seem to think they're so good they deserve things just by stepping on the ice.
ReplyDeleteP/C really do look like juniors, bad juniors at that.
DeleteC/L don't have the greatest skating skills, but to give them credit, they did a good of executing some difficult elements, and their programs always make me smile, even if it is the same theme year in, year out.
Just look at their straight line lift and compare it to the "lift" up above (1:30 mark):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipUKnWX2IJk
I mean, COME ON. P/C couldn't even attempt something like that, he's so wobbly on his blades, and Gabriella can't hold her free leg up to save her life.
Hell I think Anna has worn that same costume about seven times over the past ten years. If not that one, its doppelganger. But they make me smile because they have musicality and such complete harmony between them on the ice. I seldom see an ice dance duo so matter of fact about skating together.
DeleteI think Ando did try to compete post-baby, but didn't get very far in the very deep and crowded Japanese ladies field.
ReplyDeleteThere is a photo I've seen on tumblr of obviously pregnant Tatiana on the ice with skates on her feet. Skating fans have not become outraged or argued that Fetal VT is being endangered by this. Suggest that Tessa and now Madi Hubbell have skated through pregnancies and people act like it's impossible because they would have surely killed their babies by skating while pregnant.
There's no point in talking back to people who get all of their ideas about pregnancy from soap operas.
Delete8:27PM - their skating certainly looks lazier, but I've also wondered if it's simply the D/W template of making a program fail safe. Strip everything out that could possibly create an error that was visible to the audience. They're skating much further apart.
I'm personally offended by the straight line lift. That is the laziest fucking thing on the planet. How does that even qualify in seniors?
The woman has both knees or her entire front pasted against her partner and his grip is "sack of groceries" and yet she can't hold her balance without gripping onto him. She swims her arms for about a quarter of a second (and as anyone who has tried to balance knows, that is the sort of movement that assists balance).
DeleteAlso, look at his feet. He's doing whatever. Apparently he is not required to hit and hold a position. He can just shuffle them along down there as his balance check needs dictate.
I recognize that they hit the requirement for Level 4, but Ice Dance has long had an issue with deciding when something counts as difficult. IMO it needs to address how many points of balance there are between the partners in a lift, how much they widen or narrow their center of gravity, and how much the [artners are able to manage their own bodies in space - and for how long. "Difficulty" should mean challenging skating skills, not some arbitrary set of features that ignore the skating itself. For example, the DW lift that had Meryl Davies crouch into the entrance pasted to Charlie with both her arms wrapped around him as he then wrapped both of his arms around her, hoisted her to his shoulders and she then stuck her widdle feet in the air while he freed exactly ONE arm was a joke at Level 4. A two footed straight line "lift" where the woman's entire center of gravity is braced against the man, whom she is also gripping, and then she's swung around and placed on two feet, is also a joke at Level 4.
DeleteThe infamous Bielman position is easier than extending a leg behind you under your own steam. Maia Shibutani's "Fix You" lift last season started with a beautiful arabesque position and then switched to a Beilman hold.
I am utterly convinced that the treatment of Pechalat has to do with Papadakis. They are compensating for throwing Pechalat under bus for olympics by promoting a french team.
ReplyDeleteAs I speculated before in the comments section of the previous post, every.single.Federation got on board with the Davis White gold medal in 2014, even when it became embarrassing, such as when Virtue Moir blew them out of the rink at the Grand Prix final. Some backroom dealmaking had to have happened. Every INDIVIDUAL got on board. Virtue and Moir's own Fed worked towards that outcome, creating a narrative of lost levels and low scores at Virtue and Moir's own nationals the previous season. Charlie White could have carried Meryl around the ice in a rucksack at the US Nationals any year and lit up the scoreboard.
DeleteSo yes, the season after Sochi when abruptly a Canadian training center produces a French champion out of nowhere, it's obvious something was afoot. It's a whole lot easier to screw with ice dance than any other discipline. I don't know if this is down to Pechalat, or simply that France wanted a World Champion and ice dance was the only route there.
Before I express this opinion, a caveat - I haven't read the new rules/requirements for this season, so I don't know how they may have impacted program construction. In the past, Virtue and Moir have had complex lifts that demanded tremendous speed and stability in and out in order to meet the time limitations, for one thing. The straight line lift they had to take out for Sochi, the one with Scott's leg extended in front of him, was highly risky not only as to execution but as to time. They had to stabilize that thing immediately, and before it was taken out, I think they succeeded.
DeleteThere is nothing in their current free dance that challenges them to work within the limits set by the rulebook. Everything is more than comfortably within.
Things are mostly the same. Certainly nothing in the rules has been scaled back in a way that justifies the drift away from close skating, for example. But lifts might be a bit of an exception with that, as now exits can count for a Level 4. That's why Guillaume doesn't need a difficult position in the straightline. They have the entrance, her change of pose, and the exit.
DeleteBut if anything, that just means there are *more* ways to be overachievers. It's not like there are rules constricting teams from doing as much as they used to. Teams could be doing a heck of a lot more to push up against the limits, and V/M most of all, of course.
Nice to know her entrance, being fully propped up against Guillame the entire time except for one second when she swims her arms, and getting swung around like a sack of potatoes and placed down on the ice on two feet counts for Level 4. It's nice when things set up like that for you.
DeleteIt took a long time for VM's FD to load for me to get the video clips for the gifs I just added, and I admit without the music that FD just makes me roll my eyes. As someone else said, if the execution weren't insanely good.... it's so rote, that fd, so "greatest hits from seven years ago."
Having watched ice dance or any skating discipline for years, nothing that has befallen great skaters with quality skating first (followed by artistic acumen) surprises me anymore. I read the last few posters' comments on your earlier post. I think there's a point made with theatrics. It's the only thing I see being wilfully pushed first for D/W and now P/C. I still recall how V/M season went with their Carmen piece and Waltz. Looking at their skating skills alone one can only wonder why one earth they one upped by D/W. Following the next season, I predicted correctly to my friends even before before season began and Olympics in Sochi that they will be winning silver and boy, did I get a beating for that thought. But I was right.
ReplyDeleteI commend your blogger poster canadablue's effort to expose ISU's dodgy judging, it will still be all for nothing. The ISU knows this and will choose to do nothing.
Reading Didier Gailhaguet's appeal to reinstate him as Fed President last year (though unsuccessful) has only reaffirmed my belief that competitive skating is just a big (entertainment) business. New blood like P/C is just another business decision. Why do you suppose World Champions or Gold Medalist (even if improved) season after season are pushed aside after they received their titles/medals (if lucky, Olympic ones) (max maybe 3 years or a period determined) by the ISU)? All to make way for newer ones (not of same caliber). They are the creators of this rivalry (talking just for year 2000 - D/W and now P/C) by playing with the scores. Young players (i.e. skaters) are determined by them (Feds). The seasoned ones like Virtue/Moir frankly are probably more aware of this script after Olympic wins' seasons and especially after Sochi. This creation of rivalry is what sells tickets.
Read Didier's vision: https://www.didier2016.org/en/#my-vision-for-isu-leading-to-2022
This is only one of many books published by authors calling out on the blatant corrupt that is skating: (below is an excerpt) http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/features/Cracked%20Ice%20Exerp.htm
If anything, I feel that V/M are now in it (for the last haul) to prove a point or perhaps to leave a mark for prosperity. Through their skating skills with artistic ability (as a bonus) If one day the ISU actually completely revamped itself to live by its true code of honour and integrity, they will ultimately get the recognition they deserved.
Knowing this in mind, I will not get so worked up by wins/loss anymore. If I choose to be entertained, I will sit back, relax, watch the skating routines - sans scoring. Makes it easy on my blood pressure anyways
Shocker that Didier wasn't elected and his vision implemented, with its emphasis on fiduciary morality on the one hand and skater support, fairness and transparency on the other hand. :/
DeleteIt's also a shame that robbing Virtue and Moir was one of the last things Canadian David Dore arranged before he died. You can't take it with you, David.
Delete"I commend your blogger poster canadablue's effort to expose ISU's dodgy judging, it will still be all for nothing. "
DeleteYeah, I know. It's just the way I deal with my own blood pressure, haha! The only way I could keep watching was find a way to blow off steam, and turns out I actually enjoy picking the CoP stuff apart. I'm just glad if others find it useful :) We might as well not be stooges, even if nothing will change uless TPTB want things to change.
-canadablue
yay canadablue! I particularly like the slow-mo gif when showing the difference of skating skills to prove a point. I hope that there's a chance you'd make close up slo-mo gifs for each of top teams doing the same elements (like step sequence) to make comparison and tack on the scores and see how it match or don't match the rules and score In a table format. It makes it more interesting now that the lift on judges being anonymous. Reading the Skating Protocol recently just made me raised my eyebrows. The scores from certain judges *face palm* Makes me wonder how much training, understanding of the rules or experience they have :-/
DeleteRe: the link to that book excerpt, everyone from within who has to some extent called out problems with judging actually have agendas of their own and aren't really invested in having the sport cleaned up. For example, there was a lot of self-righteousness after the 2002 scandal, but a lot of the people involved were up to their neck in the D/W thing. The author of that excerpt even self-plagarized, posting word for word the exact same glowing praise for D/W's win that she wrote for V/M's in 2010
DeleteThere's also some question about WHICH scandal? The scandal Canada cooked up (I don't believe for one second they didn't lean on that judge to "confess") or Canada creating a scandal to force a gold on Sale Pelletier?
Delete2013 was really the writing on the wall. That was when VM unveiled a program that not only showcased their surreal mastery of skating skills, but completely trumped Davis White's supposed "athleticism", and suddenly it was that Notre Dame slodge that was declared cutting edge and Carmen disappointing. That season is still polluting this sport.
I know right? I still recall what's funny for that season was that some say V/M was accused of being too technical, rather than artistic (i.e. out of the box). If it's a sound program at other times, it's too artistic but not enough technique. Then it's the music choices they supposedly can't skate too. (Errr...P/C anyone? Flower, flower everywhere. Never mind) To top it off is having to read or hear those comments from supposed expert commentators ... oh man, just made me laugh. XD
DeleteI love this blog and canada blue! learned so much.
Deletebut, P/C lift is NOT a lift. He's flinging her around and she cant do anything on her own. They are davis and white.
It isn't a lift. How can a move that features no skating whatsoever count as an element, let alone Level 4?
DeleteBeen reading some of the comments underneath P/C's youtube videos. A few note that they're not really doing the required rhythms in their short dance. It's also noted that pulchritude is the point of all of Guillaume's costumes, not harmonizing with the program.
4:10, I have several projects on the go right now and time is of course limited, but I appreciate the suggestions and will keep those in mind. And looks like OC's already doing some element comparisons, which is lovely to see!
ReplyDelete-canadablue
PS:
"That season is still polluting this sport."
YUP.
Canadablues, do you also believe T/S are married with 3 kids? Why otherwise would you come to this blog?
DeleteI'm not going to go into my opinions or knowledge of the subject because I think it's a distraction from the skating. (I respect that OC feels it's worthy of discussion here, but it's not something I want to become part of my own work.) I do find the suggestion that you have to agree with everything on this blog to find value in reading it rather bizarre. Why come here? Seriously? Because over the years there has been a ton of excellent skating commentary and discussion that is backed up with evidence. It wouldn't matter if the personal life stuff was crazy, the skating discussion has validity on its own merits. However, FWIW, I will say that even a cursory understanding of PR shows that much of what is suggested here is far from impossible.
Delete-canadablue
Thank you for your answer. In my opinion OC's delusional rants about T&S private life take away credbility of this site. Just my opinion.
DeleteBut this blog was founded on the premise that T&S are lying about their personal status. It was never about the skating in the beginning. It is only in the last few years that the actual skating has been discussed in depth.
Delete7:43 AM quit coming into the blog on a pretext to wedge your ad hominem in here or I will delete you.
DeleteI am doing element comparisons to the best of my ability, which does not come close to canadablue's understanding. But, as has been said, skating commentators and writers habitually claim: "I'm not a technician." What they mean is "I am a skating journalist, and I know nothing about skating." They get away with that. The absurdity. Not to mention the elements of superior skating are apparent to any civilian observer.
ReplyDeleteWatched Carmen FD and was blown away AGAIN! You're right OC, Latch FD is waaaaayyyy too safe for VM... would love to see them just build on where they were heading in that season
ReplyDeleteYeah, I enjoy their current fd with the music, and especially compared to the other teams, but when I was cutting out the gifs, the music was off (so I couldn't appreciate their timing/musicality) and after a couple of run throughs it was - meh - this is Mahler - A Retrospective. They are well within their capabilities let alone pushing them, and I think it's depressing that they must have been encouraged to do that. They were certainly punished every time they tried to show what they actually were capable of doing.
Deletejust rewatched funny face and the lifts in that program are more complicated than anything the other teams are doing.
ReplyDeleteYes, 1022: AM the lifts challenged Virtue and Moir not only as to technique (although I think their technique is capable of anything) but as to swiftly and smoothly transitioning and finishing within the time limits. A couple of times they'd get jammed up while the program was evolving. As I remember they also changed one of the lifts. In "Latch" I think Scott and Tessa could do those lifts in their sleep when they're in condition.
ReplyDelete