Sunday, April 27, 2014

Davis White Off-Balance, Out of Sync in Sochi

These gifs below are from neverendingdreamtumblr. Blogger doesn't permit the posting of gifs side by side; at least I've not been able to troubleshoot that process. So, below, the gifs are angled in a descending sequence instead. On the neverendingdreamtumblr, this gif set is titled: "Why Meryl Davis and Charlie White Shouldn't Have Won in Sochi". Below the gif set there is this caption: "Balance issues, lack of synchronicity and they had problems with their twizzles for all FOUR performances! Perfect GOEs…???"

But of course! What are you going to believe? The protocols, or your lying eyes? What report has more credibility - the skating itself, or the commenting on the skating?

So here we go.









I'm re-posting this from neverendingdreamtumblr, because it's important that video like this is seen by as many people as possible. I encourage everyone to visit neverendingdreamtumblr for these gifs, even though they're also posted here. That tumblr has the gifset neatly formatted in a grid, instead of inartfully angled, and the grid has more impact. The impact this mess deserves.

I'm also re-posting these gifs to push back against the notion promoted, even by Canadian skating interests, that it's impolite, hysterical, obsessive or disrespectful to notice cheating. P.J. Kwong, for example, seems to believe that challenging the results is disrespectful.

What does respect mean to P.J. Kwong? I believe it's disrespectful when a team goes out and skates according to the rules, and elevates the standards of execution set out therein, all the while demonstrating absolutely textbook+ skating according to the criteria that governs the scoring, and the rules are ignored. Instead, right in front of our faces, in defiance of what we've just seen, that team gets ripped off, point stripped, manipulated and low balled. Why? Because the sport can flaunt its lack of accountability.

It's also disrespectful to the skating public when a team produces bastardized bullshit while demonstrating skating technique explicitly discouraged in the guidelines, and is scored as if they skated exemplifying the rules, standards and criteria.

Gaslighting is always disrespectful, P.J.

It's always disrespectful when we're directed and coerced and badgered into accepting a lie as the truth. Everybody involved in telling the skating public to do that can fuck off, and that includes most of the Canadian commentariat. If they want to lie their faces off, that's up to them. But when it comes to pressuring fans to fall in line, who do they think they're talking to? A bunch of "fraus", that's who. "Frau" is biggest perjorative on the internet, and that label is implied in everything the skating commentariat says to and about its fans. It's implied in nearly everything sportswriters say about the fans. I believe the dismissive, trivializing tone used by skating site contributors such as Lynn Rutherford is intended to trigger appeasement and insecurity in the fans who are treated that way, who are embarrassed by the implied "frau" label. That patronizing tone is meant quell those who persevere with pointing out what happened in Sochi. So again, fuck that.
We all know it's fine to raise a hue and cry when a Russian skater has an arguable win. Back in 1994, NBC couldn't get over Grishuk & Platov's gold. If you look it up on youtube, there's Tracy Wilson doing voiceover for a replay of G&P's winning rock'n'roll program, isolating and pointing out every instance where the two skaters were out of hold longer than the five seconds permitted in the rules. I love Wilson, but her tone is dark, clearly letting us know shenanigans happened in the ice dance competition. Yet despite that, Grishuk & Platov were a legitimate team. Furthermore, where was all of this pointing and insinuating when G&P were competing this program during the season?

As long as it's okay to raise questions when a Russian has an unpopular win, it's okay to raise questions when the entire ISU bullshits a North American ice dance team to their win. Perhaps those who must work with the ISU, stay in favor with the ISU, and do jobs that depend on maintaining access don't want to push back on ISU corruption, even though collusion blatantly happened here in ice dance. But please don't pressure fans to play along. The fans are getting exactly zero benefit from the corruption within the ISU. We lack incentive to support its agendas. So don't intimidate, lecture, and manipulate the fans. Suck it up.

P.S. I have been thinking about a popular theory explaining why Skate Canada played along with, and enabled, not just throwing VM under the bus, but the narrative that DW were a superior team, on par with VM. That theory is Skate Canada let VM swing in the wind in exchange for a gold medal in men's.

Patrick Chan didn't win a gold medal in men's, and I must say Skate Canada was pretty sanguine about it. Skate Canada pretty much napped through Sochi and seemed to give zero fucks about any outcome, including Patrick's.

Which brings me to Benoit Lavoie, Skate Canada's President until last year. Benoit Lavoie certainly didn't decide at the last minute that he was going to leave Skate Canada and head on over to the ISU. He had that planned for awhile. David Dore, another Skate Canadian, is already there, ensconced as ISU Vice President. Dore is the highest ranking ISU official who actually knows anything about figure skating. Lavoie's younger than Dore. Benoit Lavoie's interest during this past quad might have been his relationships within the ISU, not the performances and outcome of Skate Canada's skaters in the Sochi Olympics. Why would he care? He'd be long gone.

He could enable the DW narrative and the throwing under the bus of VM in the three years of this past quad he remained as ISU president, and make tracks a year out from Sochi. Leaving, of course, Skate Canada to rebuild its organizational infrastructure in a director-heavy orientation during the run-up to Sochi, and leaving Skate Canada with a bunch of officials just getting their feet wet with the organization as the Olympic season began. Using that theory, when Lavoie rushes into the ISU's embrace, he's in good shape, because, while president of Skate Canada, he cooperated with the ISU agenda about DW. And we all know that Skate Canada's cooperation with the DW narrative was a key element to pulling it off. I don't think Lavoie got nothing in return. He knew he'd be gone from Skate Canada a year out from the Sochi Olympics, so how much did he care about Patrick's gold, and how much did he care about favorably positioning himself for his future in the ISU?

Benoit Lavoie making deals that would work to his political advantage with the ISU appears, to me, to be a theory every bit as compelling an explanation for how Skate Canada treated Virtue Moir as the theory that Skate Canada cut Virtue Moir loose to get a gold for Patrick. The latter theory assumes Skate Canada actually cares about skating outcomes, medals, glory for the Fed, etc. I kind of think Lavoie cares more about his personal and political outcomes and prospects, not Patrick's. I suspect Lavoie used his position as Skate Canada president to set himself up for his future in the ISU, not to promote the best interests of Skate Canada's skaters. If setting himself up included setting up and selling out Virtue Moir, why wouldn't he do it? What's Skate Canada's track record in the integrity department on and off the ice since this crowd took control?

I find the "Whose side is Marina really on" stuff more than ironic in view of the fact that Virtue and Moir have plenty of better reasons to question whose side their own Federation was really on. Their Federation didn't have to balance the competing interests of Davis White and Virtue Moir. Skate Canada's only legitimate interest was Virtue Moir. Yet they spent a lot of the past quad helping out Davis White, rationalizing Davis White, telling us to swallow Davis White. IOW, helping out the USFSA. The same USFSA which spent most of the past quad taking potshots at Virtue Moir, questioning the legitimacy of their win at Worlds in 2012, damning Virtue Moir with faint praise, and painting Davis White as dominant and unstoppable.

William Thompson, former CEO of Skate Canada, also did a bolt in this quad, and one does wonder why. Thompson appeared to care about skating, even if he also cared about light shows, and about getting his face in the spotlight, and even if he was a bit of a pompous, arrogant boob. Why did he leave and what did he know, and did anything he knew cause him to leave when he left?

P.S. - I have just eliminated 13 comments from the comments section to re-set it back to 0. Someone stopped by to basically tell the blog to move on, and, after the blogger and others had responded, it suddenly crystalized that this visitor had a couple of other agendas. One was to derail the comments section discussion from the subject matter of this post, and the other was to back door their own narrative about Tessa. So I just dumped the whole thing in spam and we'll start again. Apologies to those who participated in that first set of comments, but I think you might agree it's a good idea to re-set.

95 comments:

  1. "Another lie was Carmen. Prior to worlds last season Scott and Tessa pretended that Carmen was rejected by fans and that fans confused Tessa with slutty Carmen. That was an out and out lie - fans adored Carmen and as far as the internet conversation was concerned, that was the program where, particularly for Scott-centric VM fans, any question about Tessa's brilliance was put to rest."

    I'm still not convinced this one was one of VM's lies. With everything else SC has done to sabotage them, I don't think it's that far of a leap to think that SC may have told VM this kind of crap was getting said when it wasn't. When Carmen first debuted, VM did talk about it being a difficult program. By mid-season, between the GPF and Nationals, we start hearing how these things are filtering back to them about the program. (Kind of like how it filters back to them last minute that an element might be illegal or needs to be changed or else.) Right before nationals, bs about the program starts filtering back to them, and then at nationals the tech panel had a field day gutting points from it on elements they'd had no problems with in their GP and GPF outings.

    Lies were certainly being told about the fan reaction to Carmen, but I don't think those lies were of VM's invention. I think VM were lied to by their fed about what was being said about the program. It was step 1 of their own federation taking a hatchet to Carmen.

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    1. That's a reasonable point, one I hadn't considered. It's not that far of a leap to think that SC may have told VM this kind of crap was getting said when it wasn't. I would point out, however, that VM clearly spend more time looking at what's being said about them on places like the blog and the addicted facebook (and on fsu) than they pretend. The reality show is Exhibit 1 of that truth.

      They would know, then, that this stuff wasn't being said, at least not by fans. That's why it felt to me as if they were shifting something onto fans that wasn't actually coming from fans. We can't know for sure, and I do believe their Fed, acting in concert with the ISU, manipulated them in a number of ways with Carmen.

      Their own Federation certainly took a hatchet to Carmen. Carmen was a threat. It was a tour de force, and stopped the DW narrative in its tracks. It challenged DW on what people thought was DW's high card (which really is just a default) - drama and athleticism. People say DW are athletic and dramatic because they're not controlled skaters, nor do they have a good connection, and people seem to think that if you're not THIS, then you must be THAT. In DW's case, they're neither, but that aside, yep, SC helped eviscerate Carmen for sure.

      What plays into your point is that after 2012-2013, VM were apparently told to put all Carmen-esque program ideas back into the box and come out for the Olympic season with something like Mahler. Naturally VM resisted phrasing it that way, and more or less tried to split the difference, but it was clear we were in for a lyrical, romantic Olympic free dance. That's where I think the set up happened, and in spades. Normally when a team gets feedback like that and delivers, they have a right to expect to be rewarded. Okay, this is what you've asked - it's lyrical and romantic but it also showcases the speed and power we've acquired over the past quad, and how our skating has developed.

      What actually happened was the ISU then beat them with the "Mahler" stick, pretending that Seasons was simply a rehash. Leaning on VM to produce a lyrical Olympic program, leading them to believe such a program was the program the judges wanted, VM played right into the agenda pushing Davis White. It seems to me the ISU WANTED VM to package themselves lyrically so they could start whispering that VM had stagnated. Carmen and every other program they'd done since Mahler definitely proved they were progressing and evolving brilliantly, but Carmen was a program that put their evolution right in people's faces, because it was so dramatic, dynamic, and every piece of brilliance in it was underscored so even a casual viewer couldn't miss it. Seasons was a classically seamless program that a civilian viewer could believe was "simple", which it was not. And I don't think the change in the one obvious, Carmen-like, showstopping element in Seasons (the straight line lift) was a coincidence. It followed the pattern of VM being leaned on to change or take something out at the 11th hour. And the ISU wanted nothing in the program that was so obviously brilliant even a know-nothing couldn't miss it.

      oc

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    2. their fed could've misunderstood a couple of posters from FSU. IIRC one d/w fan called tessa a whore, and doesn't SC have a FSU account?

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    3. It's true that there was a lot of discussion from non-V/M fans as to how vulgar and inapproriate Carmen was. So there were ice dance "fans" saying it.

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    4. That was transparent agenda'd b.s. from the usual suspects, though. A very small number of usual suspects.

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    5. Even Tracy Wilson sais Carmen isn't everyone's favorite and that some prefer the romantic style. She then went on to defend the lifts for being in perfec character, " whether you find them pretty or not. "
      I doubt Tracy follows the message boadds so it must have been SC that told her about the alleged backlash Carmen supposedly got.

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  2. So Benoit Lavoie and Skate Canada squandered two of the greatest skating talents ever in their respective disciplines, V/M and Chan, for their ego-tripping agendas. Well done, SC. You could have had two OGMs from Sochi, but you don't. Hope the ISU gig works out for ya.

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    1. Looks like it. Skating has never been a bastion of integrity but this self-dealing clutch of officials at Skate Canada is hard to beat. These officials are not really about Skate Canada, but about their individual ambitions and political interests. Skate Canada serves them, they don't serve Skate Canada. They pursue their individual best interests over the best interests of Skate Canada as an organization, and it appears that extends to actually selling out the organization. That's what happens when you sit on your hands, or use the organization's influence to perpetuate a narrative about your marquee team's biggest rivals that promotes the rivals over your own skaters.

      It doesn't take a genius to see what must have happened. In the case of DW versus VM, the overscoring was systematic. It wasn't competition-to-competition. VM repeatedly ran into "tough" or "strict" low scoring panels during the GP, DW miraculously never did. Even after VM managed to regain their World title in 2012, immediately a campaign began, unchallenged by Skate Canada, that their 2012 World title was undeserved, and perhaps some behind-the-scenes deal making had made it happen. Who can make this happen? The ISU. Well, what individual at the ISU? I don't think Speedy. David Dore's the figure skating guy, and propitiously placed as the ISU VP to orchestrate the DW overscoring and the Virtue Moir death by a thousand cuts. He can set that in motion. Somebody at the ISU did it. The proof is on the ice, in the miserably deficient skating by DW that year after year got monster scores despite content and execution that was explicitly discouraged in the rules that govern scoring. Despite egregious missteps and errors. That's the proof. We can't go behind closed doors, but we can SEE the skating, and DW's is such that we're not weighing the relative value of DW versus VM. DW is a completely different animal. They're a bastardization, a Rube Goldberg contraption, a fraud and a Frankenstein's monster. There's no argument that they executed according to CoP so as to merit their scores. None.

      Therefore, somebody had to set in motion a scheme that ensured they'd get those scores. Who else had the power? It has to be somebody powerful enough that there was nobody higher up in the ISU to oppose him or her, because this DW agenda took place over a period of years. Who else could it be but Dore?

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    2. Let's not forget the press release after Worlds 2013 where Skate Canada was pleased the judging was fair.

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    3. Then you have everybody at Skate Canada sitting by as icenetwork takes a gazillion potshots at Virtue Moir, and promotes Davis White as unstoppable, dominant, best in the world. Virtue Moir are, as the post says, damned with faint praise. Skate Canada does nothing. Skate Canada's familiars, such as P.J. Kwong, promote Davis White as worthy rivals, and focus on what VM need to do to beat such an unstoppable, magnificent team with all of that momentum.

      Virtue and Moir, following the ISU's own rules, interrupt their 4CC performance of Carmen, and then resume. What follows is a lot of dark insinuation that they stopped because they were afraid they couldn't beat Davis White on the merits in the free.This is Carmen versus freaking Notre Dame, by the way. Skate Canada doesn't utter a word.

      Why was Skate Canada keeping its mouth shut? Who was Skate Canada's president? Benoit Levoie, who was planning to jump ship to the ISU during an era the ISU was orchestrating Davis White's rise to the top and to Olympic gold in Sochi. Skate Canada cooperated fully with this agenda. Who at Skate Canada is responsible and who had the power? I think it was the guy who ran off to the ISU a year out from Sochi. Skate Canada was left with a Canadian Tire marketing guy as CEO, and an absentee ?? president, both of whom appear more interested in creating as many directorships as possible, interested in bloating the the internal infrastructure on the back of Skate Canada's budget, than they are in their figure skaters.

      These theories aren't merely exercises in reverse engineering. The proof is on the ice. Anybody who looks at Davis White's programs, and then at CoP, understands for a fact that the reason Davis White break world records has nothing to do what what they deliver on the ice. The proof is the skating is the skating, and the rules are the rules, and the former doesn't match the latter. That's the smoking gun, and it's not going away.

      Something has to account for all of this. It didn't occur by happenstance. Something accounts for the reality that every judging panel that assigned scores to DW's programs ignored the rulebook and criteria when assigning those scores. It's not some collective unconscious miracle. It's corruption. Corruption is set in motion by people. Who were the people in a position to get this done across two Federations (Skate Canada and the USFSA) and internationally (the GPS, Olympics, and Worlds)? David Dore for the ISU (+Skate Canada roots), Benoit Levoie for Skate Canada, and, it is suspected, based on what came out of dance panels to which he was assigned, Shawn Rettstatt. Rettstatt's position as a powerful official with the USFSA - he is no mere judge - also argues his involvement.

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  3. It's almost comical when one looks back at the time this blog spent covering the antics of Debbi Wilkes. Wilkes and Barb were symptomatic. A sports Federation that is bleeding sponsors kept an unqualified media personality in the title of Director of Business Development, even though the sponsor hemorrhage occurred during her tenure, and even though she did no business development. She used skatebuzz as her personal showcase and skatebuzz pretty much died after she seemed to be exposed. She positioned herself behind Virtue and Moir for camera time opportunities. She was a team leader in Vancouver, a position that's incompatible with the full time job of Director of Business Development, but Debbi wasn't doing any Business Development. She was in the Debbi business. If you can fill positions with people who aren't doing the job of those positions, and leaving that job undone, and basically siphoning off resources while contributing nothing back, you're pretty much working for the mob. That appears to be Skate Canada's businsss model, and it looks like the ISU's as well.

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  4. "P.S. I have been thinking about a popular theory explaining why Skate Canada played along with, and enabled, not just throwing VM under the bus, but the narrative that DW were a superior team, on par with VM. That theory is Skate Canada let VM swing in the wind in exchange for a gold medal in men's." i remember people saying that the russian anonymous source must've been scored or left out and thats why they revealed the info to l''equipe.

    it's possible that when SC learned that gold for men wasn't secured (considering pchan lost gpf), they pulled out, revealed (almost) everything to l'equipe or to that russian anonymous source.

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    1. The story L'Equipe had looked like misdirection, something fed the magazine that could be swiftly debunked. The actual story is the ISU corruption facilitated the DW win in Sochi and the precedents that appeared to validate it. The L'Equipe story pretended that some Russian and American judges were colluding just for the Olympics to lowball VM and elevate DW. That sets up for anybody to look at DW's track record and ask, why would they need to do that? It seems to be the article's purpose, whether L'Equipe was in on it or not - to create a small bore faux scandal that could be directly debunked by evidence created by the actual scandal - that evidence being DW's track record and past protocols. And after L'Equipe was easily dismissed by simply checking DW's past protocols and winning record vis a vis VM, the cherry on top was anon CANADIAN insiders saying this was probably some disgruntled Russian (of course) skating source making things up.

      The L'Equipe story looks like part of the process of putting over DW's win, not an expose of the actual scandal. It was meant to validate DW.

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  5. Well it looks like we are starting to see the post-Olympic splits and boy - I think the GP season next year is going to look thin...Now that it seems that MTM are splitting - I am wondering if Skate Canada will basically pressure Duhamel/Radford to stick around for 2 years. I can't see them going until 2018...In ice-dance in the US Lynn and Logan have retired which is a shame because they kind of marched to the beat of their own drum but in a good way...Kharis Ralph it appears has retired so Asher Hill is looking for a new partner...would have loved to see this team being coached by someone other the Lane group...and best of luck to Kharis - she seems like a genuine sweetheart according to her twitter...
    The videos are starting to slowly coming in from the Canadian Stars on Ice tour...it appears by the fan reaction that everyone from the skaters to the fans are enjoying it - which is always a plus. I guess the only negative would be the small ice surface...

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  6. On another note - about the CSOI - in terms of costumes - what's up with Tessa's and Kaitlyn's costume cuts for the duet Try? Thumbs down from me...can you tell it's the off-season lol...and as a side-note - yup in that duet VM just are more interesting to watch than WP - nothing personal..it's just VM always pay attention to detail and I don't know I just get the impression that they just love to skate - there isn't that "forced" element...

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    1. Tessa is looking more and more pregnant and Kaitlyn had to be dressed to match her for that number. It's a great dress if you need to hide a growing tummy.

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    2. Yep, Tessa's waist is disappearing quicker by the day...and the boobs getting bigger.

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    3. Tessa and Scott are two crazy! but it is not dangerous to skate pregnant? I have never been pregnant and I do not do sports at a competitive level, it is possible such a thing?

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    4. and in the pictures she always stands behind all

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    5. It's more than Tessa and Scott paying attention to detail - they're just much much stronger. Stronger literally. They each, individually, carry themselves better than Kaitlyn and Andrew. Their movements have more power and control. They're bodies are articulated and specific. They carry the power and specificity through their transitions. They're bigger - the actual skating and stroking, and the non-skating movement.

      oc

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    6. 12:46 - If a woman is healthy, fit, and is experiencing a healthy pregnancy, there is nothing dangerous about skating while pregnant, or while doing any number of other elite athletic activities while pregnant.

      oc

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    7. I don't have the link handy right now, but exercise during pregnancy in elite athletes correlates with fewer complications during the pregnancy, labor, and delivery. On this list includes shorter duration of labor and a C-section rate of only 6% in a time when it's approaching 30% and higher in the general population.

      There was also a study that found a positive correlation between exercise in pregnant elite female athletes and the child's verbal ability in childhood.

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    8. Here's the power point presentation I was thinking of: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEQQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usuhs.edu%2Ffap%2Fresources%2Fsp%2FExerciseandPregnancy-Comprehensive.ppt&ei=xtqLUrypC8_S2wXXuIHoCg&usg=AFQjCNGwSVjLgIDSZIkQIEgPBX-7b1t8lw&sig2=sAZ4BfldpjTO7iXcB3YV1Q&bvm=bv.56643336,d.b2I

      The link will open up the file in power point.

      I would like to point out page 47 where it says that depending on delivery method, athletes can return to competition within 4-6 weeks of birth (and that's return to competition not just return to training). I'm thinking about 2011 here and those that try to claim that Tessa couldn't have possibly competed that soon after giving birth.

      Here are a few more articles:
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3343000/The-athlete-in-me-doesnt-like-being-pregnant.html

      http://www.npr.org/blogs/theedge/2014/01/23/265275397/a-baby-didnt-bump-these-moms-out-of-competition

      http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/Women-Olympians-Proving-That-Motherhood-Is-No-Bar-To-Success-162076625.html

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    9. Thank you. Not to mention that when Tessa returned to the 4CCs, she competed only the short dance she'd competed throughout much of her pregnancy. Watch the short dance lift, how she gets into it, and where she opens herself up when she bends back, and where she doesn't. She opens her shoulders, neck and chest, but keeps her pelvis/hips nailed to Scott. This is where their technique helps them, and where Tessa's mobile torso helps them.

      The free dance was sleight of hand. It wasn't a cramp. Even the circular twizzles were wobbly and undertrained, and when they wobbled during them, they didn't react with intensity, as they usually do if there's a glitch in a program they intend to compete.

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    10. ^ should say she competed only the sd she'd "skated" during much of her pregnancy. That was smart of them - drill the short dance as a show program.

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    11. Even taking 4CC out of consideration, there are a lot of people out there who try to claim that even worlds wouldn't have been possible because Tessa couldn't have even started training until months after the birth. Some over the years have insisted that because Tessa didn't take to her bed the entire pregnancy and first two months after childbirth, she couldn't have possibly been pregnant. Why, 2 months post-partum, she only would have been allowed to have done a little bit of light exercise off-ice and it would have been at least 4 before she could be back on the ice. Um, NO. That's not how it works in most women, much less an elite athlete. The only time you'd see that sort of delay is if there had been major complications during childbirth.

      The bottom line is that exercise in pregnancy is a healthy thing for mother and baby, elite female athletes can train during pregnancy, and the woman isn't going to have to wait months and months and months after childbirth to resume exercise.

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    12. In 1971, tennis champion Margaret Court played the women's singles final at Wimbledon, while pregnant. She lost, but her pregnancy had nothing to do with it.

      Kerri Walsh, two time Olympic gold medalist in beach volleyball, was pregnant at the London games. She says: "When I was throwing my body around fearlessly, and going for the gold for our country, I was pregnant."

      She said this on NBC, and the network's medical director, Dr. Nancy Synderman, said "The risk that she put to herself and her fetus was zero to none."

      There's actually been a lot of press about pregnant high performance athletes, and material on how quickly athletes recover and can resume training, and what they can do while pregnant is easy to find. Equally, there's a lot of material on what a non-athletic woman can accomplish while pregnant and have a strong recovery.

      Despite this, a lot of skating fans apparently think the baby can be shaken loose in a lift. Or jolted out of the womb if a mother falls.

      Life isn't like Gone with the Wind. Or a soap opera, where, I read once, a female character once miscarried by falling UP a flight of stairs. I don't know why some fans choose to believe myths based on romance novels instead of medical reality.

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  7. 12.59 and 1.08 thank's a lot!!! I know that Tessa is capable but i can not not worry about her

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    1. I feel the same. I know it's possible and she did it four years ago, but I can't help but cringe when they do certain lifts, like the goose. God forbid if she fell. I would feel safer if they Davis White type lifts where Tessa is girdled and locked in tight with multiple points of contact.

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    2. Davis and White's lifts are not safer. Virtue and Moir's perfection of technique, both at the blade level and in the air, practically ensures their safety. If by some chance one of them experienced a freak slip of the blade during a lift, their proper positioning and awareness allows them to compensate and give them time to bail in a safe manner.

      Proper technique makes lifts safer, not more dangerous. If either Virtue or Moir thought something was wrong going into a lift, they'd never let it go up in the first place. There's also video of them in a Carmen run-through during Cup of Russia that shows just how crucial their proper technique is if forced to bail in a lift. One of the Russian teams (I/K) got in their way and after Scott became aware, he expertly handled Tessa as they bailed.

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    3. Something else people need to understand - a baby in a womb is incredibly well protected. Think of a bunch of pillows surrounding something, followed by an entire second layer of pillows. That's how safe we're talking. Tessa Virtue is an elite athlete with absolutely phenomenal understanding of her body in space. A baby in her womb is safer on the ice than one would probably be in the womb of most non-athletic women idly walking from their bedrooms to the bathroom and back.

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    4. 2.31 I agree with you. mainly because it can not just be a lifting hard to lose a child .. just a simple fall

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  8. I know that some people who post here do have access to the "inside scoop", so to speak. Does anyone have any actual information on whether or not Tessa is indeed pregnant again?

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  9. in other news, fsu is still garbage http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?92226-Most-overmarked-or-held-up-skater-of-all-time&p=4249879&viewfull=1#post4249879

    how exactly was v/m's od win in vancouver unearned when their program was more technically demanding/better performed?

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  10. MBT is Meryl's, I'd say. Clunkiest routine yet, and still 10s.

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  11. Tessa is pregnant ? But they have a tour in July 25-27!

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    1. I wouldn't buy tickets hoping to see them if I were you.

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    2. Tessa could be nine months pregnant, big as a house, and skating in a mumu and some fans would still deny she's carrying a baby. Same thing happened the second time Katia Gordeeva was pregnant. She skated in shows right up until the end and more than a few fans were saying "no, no. There's no way she could be pregnant and out there on the ice!" Presumably their blinders fit quite well, nice and tight.

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    3. I don't follow Katia so I didn't know she had skated late into her second pregnancy... are there any photos or videos? Navka and Delobel mostly were not skating publicly during their pregnancies, so there are very few examples to compare Tessa to. I believe Tessa is pregnant but I'd like to compare her body to other skaters.

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  12. I actually did stumble upon your blog but now I religiously check it out. While I have to admit that I don’t believe that they have a child, I do enjoy your posts. I like that you point out their inconsistencies in the interviews and your review of that ridiculous show was fantastic. I love your ice dance review posts! I alternate between rage and sadness at the travesty that was Sochi. I don’t usually watch DWTS but I did last night. I don’t have your eloquence to describe what I thought of their dance so I shall wait for your recap and just nod my head yes. Did anyone else cringe when Charlie paused to take his jacket off?! No. Just me? Ok. What I did get is that Charlie is being sacrificed to the DWTS Gods so that Meryl can take home another shiny thing that doesn’t belong to her.

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    1. Oh the irony, right? I wonder if Charlie is frustrated. He has to know he is doing more than Meryl. And yet no matter how she performs, she gets a ten. Charlie is working with a real pro, dancing with a real pro, so he ought to be able to understand even more clearly what type of b.s. is going on, but he has to suck it up. I hope he DOES suck it up and look at that unearned OGM of his, and realizes that whatever mild frustration/feeling thwarted/sense of unfairness he's experiencing now - and he is outdancing Meryl by miles while she's pure b.s. - what Scott and Tessa experienced must have been gazillion times worse. I'm not sure his brain is wired that way, but it ought to be. That's his partner down there. He's on the outside looking in and he can see what blatant b.s. it is, same as on the ice.

      I'll be recapping this episode later in the week.

      2:10, Tessa is about twice as enormous as she was at this time in 2010 and I'm only exagerating a little. Remember how she looked on June 10 at the Gold Medal celebration, and that it's still only April and how she looks now.

      I have every faith both in her ability to employ visual trickery and wizardry and timeline futzing to get away with it all the way through as she did last time, and in the cooperative willful blindness on the part of anyone looking at her or watching her skate. Just look at fan videos of her skating the Astaire/Rogers bit with Scott. Compared to her body, her head is once more the size of a pea. Maybe she'll level out. I'm waiting for the huge scarves and the built-out shoulders and big hair.

      oc

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    2. She might not necessarily be further along (if she is pregnant - and I must admit I'm on the verge of being convinced). I know we can't compare her to other people, but quite often, second pregnancies do show earlier.

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    3. They often do, but this is uncannily like her first pregnancy in where the weight gain is showing first (hello thighs, rear end and face). Check out the Calgary Stampede 2010, and Jack and Diane - not just the camisole under the midriff top, but how she's filling out those jeans from behind. Tessa has strong legs and thighs and is curvy at the back end, but this is something completely different, although she looks great.

      So if she's at the same stage as last time, her body is following the same trajectory, as it were, only sonner and faster.

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    4. If she's pregnant, I'm guessing her body is just changing faster and earlier. I suspect she won't be as lucky as the first time and at some point soon, she will be sporting the "baby bump". It makes sense if she and Scott did decide to have another child now. Nicole, Charlie's wife, is definitely expecting again and it seems like Danny's wife might be as well. The brothers seem to want to have kids on the same schedule.

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    5. "and he is outdancing Meryl by miles while she's pure b.s. - what Scott and Tessa experienced must have been gazillion times worse. "

      hmm i wonder if he's jealous of her.... at least thats what people are making it out to be.

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    6. Honestly I think Charlie just wants to be done with the show and Meryl so he can run off and finally marry Tanith.

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    7. I tend to think it's more that she's further along, although I do think part of it is due to this being her second pregnancy and she she's showing faster and getting bigger earlier for her. What makes me think she's further along is that the rate of her expansion and weight gain over the past month is a lot more congruent with early second trimester weight gain than first trimester weight gain. Even with a second pregnancy, women don't gain that much in the first trimester. And things are stretched from before, so they stretch earlier, but Tessa did (clearly) get those abs back into shape after Little Moir, so I don't think she'd immediately pop out like a non-athletic woman would.

      The uterus rises out of the pelvis at about 12 weeks and weight gain ramps up at the start of the second trimester to about a pound a week.

      To me, Tessa already looks obviously pregnant. I think if she does get away with it this time, it's going to be pretty much entirely due to willful blindness by the fans. There are reports of non-fans (grown up adult parents of some of the teen fangirls) who have pointed out that Tessa looks pregnant to their offspring who use bad reasoning to explain it away.

      " I'm waiting for the huge scarves and the built-out shoulders and big hair."

      Here you go. :)

      http://vk.com/photo-49286267_327879507

      Also, have some Tessa in a giant trench coat:

      http://vk.com/photo-49286267_328118782?all=1
      http://vk.com/photo-49286267_328111922?all=1

      If you look at her side here, you can see how she's squaring off already:
      http://vk.com/photo-49286267_328111567?all=1

      In photos from the CSOI meet-and-greets, Tessa has been wearing looser stuff that she doesn't normally wear.

      http://vk.com/photo-49286267_328135959?all=1
      http://vk.com/photo-49286267_328356149?all=1

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  13. O/T, but it made me laugh - one of our national newspapers is running a fantasy sport leage, where the first prize is a holiday to...Punta Cana :-D Some should tell JD, it might be her only hope of getting back there....

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    1. Jess has relocated to Toronto and is still friendly with the Moirs. Maybe it's time for Jess and Scott to rekindle their romance. Scott needs to take someone to the beach this year!

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    2. 9:21 - I hope Jess stays far away from the Moirs. Shamming with her was just as grotesque as it's been with Cassandra.

      It is interesting that Scott cannot take a post-SOI beach vacation without announcing to the world he's taken heterosexual company and he's getting some.

      Privacy my ass.

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  14. i heard abbey lee miller is going to be on the next show i wonder how much meryl and co. have paid her to give meryl tens

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  15. So, am I the only one that thinks Charlie was FAR better than Meryl this particular week? WTF with those scores? And, well, OC you'd better add up a "new" Meryl's multi-purpose-dance kick in your last gif.. she did it again in the salsa. Of course.

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    1. no, you're not the only one. Charlie can be stiff and awkward and unsteady on his feet, but i see a lot of improvement in terms of hoe he opens up and presents his body. He is trying to learn to dance and not relying on all the tricks he used in his ice dancing to get around the actual dancing, which I really respect. I wish there weren't so much time-wasting and filler in his routines, but I understand they are working with his limitations.

      Meryl's salsa was very bad. No rhythm, awkward movement, and not much actual salsa.

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    2. I saw it. And I saw the minimal footwork and long posing sections. I (almost) feel bad for Charlie, who can actually move, and is enjoying having a real partner. Breaking things down, learning it, reconstructing, doing it, only to find out - the judges don't care!

      And there's Meryl - doing jackshit, and beating him on the leaderboard.

      I honestly do have to discipline myself, keep the through line, and observe Charlie is experiencing, in a very minor, doesn't-count way, what the judges had him and Meryl mete out to Virtue Moir. It's not fun. It's frustrating. But as far as I'm concerned, he better suck it up.

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    3. I wonder what might have been possible for Charlie on the ice if he'd had a better partner who he could actually worked with.

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    4. His basic skating skills would still be poor. They were his own responsibility and he didn't manage to get it right in 20 years.
      The lifts would have been better with a better partner than Meryl and maybe they wouldn't have to recycle their elements for seven years.

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    5. See, what I don't get is - Marina said that when Tessa and Scott came to her first, lifts were not a strong point, so they brought in experts and worked on them. If VM had access to those kind of resources at Arctic Edge, then so did DW - why didn't they take advantage of the kind of help that was available? There is no excuse for them being so sloppy at anything - they had everything on a plate for them in Canton.

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    6. I think you need better skating skills to deliver some of the lifts Tessa and Scott did. It doesn't matter what mechanics you learn off ice, what new entrances, exits, transitions and positions. If your blades can't support it, it's useless.

      Then there's the Meryl mystery. Why can't the woman hold herself in space? She can't. We saw it in the footage when she was rehearsing with Val. She absolutely can't. What's behind that? She couldn't possibly be more ripped - it's not about strength. Val even had to hold her up when she was on the ground.

      Charlie's skating skills - agreed, he didn't improve them over the years, but he was also working with somebody with severe limitations and matched himself to her. I also suspect that whatever he got out of skating, enjoyment of the process wasn't part of it. For years now it's been same old same old every season. Perhaps if he'd had a partner with growth potential he'd have gotten into it. When he and Sharna did their tango, his enthusiasm afterwards really struck me. Charlie's always touted his partnership with Meryl but I never heard him speak in such organic terms before - "It comes from inside" "You just feel like dancing" and what a good time he was having in rehearsal having things broken down for him and learning. If he'd had that sort of environment with his partner, it's possible he'd have been motivated to push his skating skills. The most enthusiasm I ever read/heard him talk about in regard to skating was that if he had to rotate a hole in the ice to get L4 in a rotational lift, he'd do that. His challenges seemed to be one note - how much can I push?

      If he'd been with a partner where he could have had more of a Scott experience, he might have ended up a more authentic skater and part of a more authentic ice dance team, because maybe he'd have been motivated to develop his bladework.

      It's sort of irksome that, watching DWTs, it seems to be coming down to Meryl. So many of the DW critics zero in on her, and at times it has come off sexist to me, or projecting. However, what's going on with DWTs, how she's performing, how she moves, validates that the core issue starts and possibly started way back when, with her, and not Charlie. He's capable of growth, and is showing it even on this little show. She's incapable.

      oc

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    7. If Piper Gilles was able to improve her skating skills in one season, imagine what Charlie would have been able to do, what with all the coaching resources available at Canton. Such a shame he never fully developed as a skater.

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    8. Well I don't exactly feel sorry for Charlie White. Yes we can agree that Meryl Davis is not the ideal partner but that didn't stop him from improving his blade/edging technique. And really during the last quad - did DW ever say anything gracious about VM in interviews...nope...and it must hard sitting in a suite watching a University of Michigan football game...yup...so although Charlie seems to be enjoying his DWTS experience - I don't think he feels sorry for himself - Olympic gold medal, two World titles, countless GPF titles...will be able to go back to school - without worrying about tuition...yup...sorry I don't get the sympathy...perhaps down the road when he gets to see tape of his skating and what he didn't get out of the process he may have regrets but then again saying Olympic Champion Charlie White to himself will make it all worth it...

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    9. I have a sort of half-baked theory on why Charlie didn't work to improve his own skating skills over the years. Meryl and Charlie were matched in their crappy skating skills. Meryl literally couldn't improve hers. If Charlie had worked on his, they may have very well become mismatched with Charlie being the obviously better partner. The judges may have ignored the mismatch in ability, but I think the hustle of DW's skating would have been harder if they didn't match and Charlie was obviously better than Meryl.

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    10. There's also the possibility that the moms were very eager for the two of them to continue together, as a team, and, as long as they were succeeding, were not looking for any reason to consider them mismatched or develop them apart. I know DW fans are very eager to perceive a symbiotic bond between Meryl and Charlie psychologically or emotionally, but I think the moms are the real team. It's hard to imagine the actual process of training with Meryl was rewarding for Charlie after a certain point. There were other compensations, namely, success. But the thing itself - hard to believe there was a lot of fun in that.

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    11. You make a good point about the moms.

      Still, most skaters, especially at the elite level, have a personal interest and pride in improving their skating, independent of the marks and placements.

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    12. 9:44 - at what point do you acknowledge that you're not doing that - developing your actual skating? He had to know there were unusual workarounds with Meryl that other ice dance teams didn't confront DWTs exposes that pretty definitively. Their philosophy about skating may be - these are the rules, we abide by the rules and are rewarded. Of course, the catch is, they don't abide by the rules - the basic skating and execution is nowhere near the GOE they receive, or the points for skating skills they receive. You have to bullshit yourself, I guess. Or hold incongruent ideas - that some other team can be the best skaters but somehow you deserved, on the ice, to place ahead of them.

      I'm wondering if the partnership with Meryl, wasn't, in itself, so great, as in he didn't enjoy the doing of it as far as performance, connection, etc. But enjoyed the rewards. And the athletic challenge. Furthermore, and in addition to the moms, if he'd ever sought out another partner it's unlikely he'd be able to enjoy the "in my own backyard" experience he had with training. There were many non-Meryl, non-skating reasons to sustain the partnership, and in addition, they were rewarded.

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    13. I think its interesting how Scott and Tessa mention that they are friends with Charlie but not Meryl. It looked like the friendship was real when looking at gala footage, but of course, who knows how much of that was just playing to cameras? It's all confusing, but I tend to think there is a real friendship.

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    14. There was a real friendship among the four of them, including Meryl, at one point, but where it is now, I don't know. It's not like double dating. Tessa and Scott's relationship is obviously completely different to Meryl and Charlie's. It's not the awkward of "Love the the husband, hate the wife." Charlie and Meryl have separate lives. There's the fact that their moms are close, so Meryl will naturally interact with his mother and vice versa, but, while there's history, how much of an off-ice, independent bond do they have?

      Delete
  16. http://kickasscanadians.ca/scott-moir-tessa-virtue

    As is CSOI tradition now, an article full of bs from Tessa and Scott!

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    1. The author thanks Barb MacDonald at the end. Enough said.

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    2. So they wanted to do a documentary series and were surprised at how it turned out? Who is he kidding? If he's regretting his decision, he shouldn't blame it on the production team. No one forced him to act out all those dumb scenes or read out all those voiceovers. The guy needs to learn how to say no.

      And of course he then backpedals and returns to his usual script: "fans got the real Tessa and Scott". Yes, a portrayal so real that he's uncomfortable with it, that he says was meant "to sell a TV show". Nothing more real than that.

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    3. Isn't it great how VM keep putting it on the fans -- that it's the fans who have their own narrative for Tessa and Scott. So Tessa and Scott can lie their faces off all they want. *That* lying doesn't count. Fans calling them out on their BS--according to VM that merits a pushback the size of a reality show "that's honest" (rolleyes), but then Scott turns right around and is saying they show had to "sell a story" that wasn't the real story,

      They need to shut up about that show being so honest. They're just embarrassing themselves.

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    4. I don't understand how Scott can pretend to be surprised at the show's narrative when his and Tessa's voiceovers followed along faithfully with the show's plots.
      Their voiceovers AND the acted-out fake personas they've been feeding the public for years all contributed to make both of them come across as morons. I'm not sure what they expected. Their self delusions have to be enormous if they thought acting out sham and fan fiction would make them appealing. It was a ginormous waste of time and PR capital.

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    5. The crew was honest with them and they were honest with the crew? What the hell does that mean?

      Which part was honest. The part where the storyline straight out mocks the viewers by setting them up to expect Tessa is hugging Scott but, surprise! It's the fake gf. And that was in the first show, setting the tone for the load of crap that was this series.

      The crew and VM being honest with each other looks like it was nothing more than VM being honest about their pack of lies and the crew being honest right back, agreeing to sell VM's sham under the guise of "total access". Maybe that's how Tessa and Scott can say the show is "so honest". In their own compartmentalized universe - VM lalaland - I guess this qualifies as honest and sincere.

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    6. Oh, Scott's going to take up carpentry - how cute. He can knock up a crib for Baby M with all the spare time he'll have this summer....

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    7. Article was ridiculous but I especially like how the author sends the readers over to their website for more information? What information are we supposed to find over there on the magical website that is never updated?

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    8. I don't follow a huge amount of sports - but from those I do I'm just gobsmacked at the pathetic showing with regards to social media from Mr and Mrs Moir - there are retired athletes in their sixties who are better at it than they are.

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    9. 7:30
      VM only suck at social media that has to do with professional PR. When it comes to using social media to promote a hoax and scam the fans they have no problems knowing how to use it. It appears that's what they and all of Moirville thinks social media is for. Heaven forbid it be used in a professional manner and with good will.

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    10. "But whatever they do, they plan to do it with integrity, living lives that reflect their very best and that continue to make those around them proud."

      Mmmhmm. Sure. The number of times "integrity" and "honesty" come up in this article would read sort of disingenuously even if you had no idea they are hiding anything of consequence.

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    11. Also, this sentence jumped out at me: "Those possibilities include welcoming a little breathing room into their lives."

      Possibly I'm reading too much into this, but it's a weird way to talk about "breathing room," and I think it smacks a little of the same kind of nudge-nudge-wink-wink we saw in phrases like "Scott Moir Has Cut The Cord".

      "And by 'breathing room', I mean 'baby'! Get it? I know that you know but we'll all pretend we don't know!"

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    12. 9:06, I totally thought the article was going to go on to say,"welcoming a little bundle of joy". It's definitely a weird way to phrase things.

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    13. Strange timing for an article re-hashing of the reality show and relationship crap when you basically have 2 weeks left before the end of CSOI and then being off the grid in terms of legit media...for a while anyways...for longterm fans - are we surprised about this type of article...nope..because every once in a while it's customary...you know bring up everything BUT the skating...

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    14. I don't think the timing is strange. They're setting us up for the long absence they're about to take... this time Tessa is showing too much, they can't do what they did last time. Surely some emergency will come up and they'll have to pull out of the China show in July.

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    15. Ah, there's the universe correction I was waiting for. Too many people were enjoying the skating, it seems. Time to talk about how the show edited them wrong but it was still about the real them being honest. Mmm hmm. No lying there! "Oh, Scott's an asshole, but not as much of an asshole as he was edited to look?" Whaa huh?

      And there's the traditional "oh, those silly fans and their belief in these 'false narratives,' but we find it sweet" head pat crap. I love the condescending tone. They say those things because they're such good people, you know.

      I have news for V/M. Good people don't constantly talk about how they are and want to be remembered as good people.

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    16. Speaking of CSOI, a fan on tumbrl who attended last night's performance in Montreal wrote:
      "NO FUCKING JOKE AT THE END OF TRY AFTER TESSA AND SCOTT MOVE TO SEPERATE ENDS OF THE RINK A LITTLE BLONDE GIRL IN BLACK RAN UP TO TESSA. I HAVE IT ON FILM. COULD’VE JUST BEEN A LITTLE FAN WHO JUST WANTED TO SAY HI TO TESSA OR W/E BUT MY MOM AND I ARE CONVINCED IT WAS PART OF THE NUMBER."

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    17. is toddler moir???? OMG!!!!!

      Delete
    18. I'm going to do a post that's mostly a round up of a few things, but also notes the parallels between the years-on narrative Scott and Tessa have reiterated in the media about the fans, and the years-on narrative about Davis White's skating. It's just uncanny how on ice with DW and off-ice with VM mirror each other, each using gaslighting as a go to, and also each using precedent setting, pattern-creating, with an eye to the future when people start looking back. Just as sportswriters looked at old protocols to justify the protocols at the Olympics, media types will only look at what Tessa and Scott say about the fans (the untoward interest in their personal lives, the narrative fans impose upon VM) to justify what will, at the end of the day, very likely be over a decade of lying. The reality, as with Davis White, is the opposite. It's Moirville and VM themselves who are obsessed with commodifying their relationship and imposing a narrative about the fans on the fans.

      I was reading an old essay today about high culture, mass culture and mid culture. Old as in 1980s, although most of it holds true today. One of the points the piece made is it's bullshit to pretend that because the public "buys" something (accepts it, watches it, or whatever) that that is proof of what the public actually wants. But of course most industry, most business, most commercial ventures just want to dehumanize the public and paint them as interchangeable elements of a program or strategy, not individuals. What makes people individual is, as much as possible, ignored in favor of what makes people a demographic, a statistic, a target. The essay argued that even if the public "buys" what is being sold, that's not proof it's actually what they want (the article also quoted something from Alice in Wonderland a la "I get what I want" versus "I want what I get." - most marketing aims to convince the public of the latter and very often the public plays along, but it doesn't make it true.). The essay argues that what's being delivered to the public is what the marketer wants, not want the public wants. Same for Virtue and Moir. I don't think most of the fans want to consume their actual private life, although I have my suspicions about their family and community. This is a blog that covers the sham and revealed the essentials about their personal status but it's been a long time since the posts that attract the most participation and passion are the posts on the skating.

      Virtue and Moir lie about the public and have been proactively establishing a narrative of lies for years and years. The strategy is identical to the strategy that put Davis White on top of the podium in Sochi. I think when Virue and Moir reiterate crap such as the bullshit in the latest interview, it's just another placeholder along the narrative trail.

      Delete
  17. Well it looks like MTM are no longer...dammit...Skate Canada2014 is going to be lack lustre without Chan, VM and MTM...I am guessing that Skate Canada will lobby to get either Hanyu or Javier or VT to fill that void...

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    1. Me again at 3:50 pm - was wondering also now that Moscovitch is looking for a partner - do you guys think that Dube is even an option? I think someone said earlier that Jessica has relocated to Toronto? Is she in school or coaching? Stranger things have happened,,,,

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    2. She's working at Journey to Excel: http://journeytoexcel.com/

      Delete
    3. The MTM split is a disappointment. But it all seems laid out in Kirsten's remarks. She didn't say "I'm 20 and he's almost 30" but she may as well have when she said she wanted to go to two more Olympics. Dylan arguably could make it to 2018 - other pairs guys have done so at that age and older and done well. That notwithstanding, it appears Kirsten wants to use the post-Sochi season to get her footing/the kinks out with a new partner and then build towards 2018, and she has doubts Dylan can take her there.

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    4. Dube might not be a terrible idea on the face of it, as I could see both of them wanting to do a couple of more seasons without necessarily pushing on to 2018. Although we don't know that Dylan wasn't interested in pushing on to 2018 - pairs skaters the age he'll be then have done it and done well, and in Sochi he and Kirsten were pretty emphatic about wanting to continue as long as they could.

      The only problem with that scenario (as long as I'm playing) is Jessica's apparently persistent immaturity. Look at how she handled herself on BOTB by the end. Desultory skating and very childish when eliminated. Kirsten remade her body and her skating from one season to the next; Dube never has. Dube generally shows up for one competition a season, and that's Canadians. For the others, including worlds, she puts in a maintenance performance. Whatever unresolved issues or hard feelings there may be in the MTM universe, both had a strong work ethic and Jessica really doesn't.

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    5. http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/4496974-moscovitch-looking-for-a-partner-following-figure-skating-split/

      Sounds like he's serious about 2018. Better to steer clear of JD.

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    6. He's very close to Bryce Davison. If JD (which is only fan fantasy and me joining up with it) were a possibility, I figure as it played out, he'd know what he was getting into. Her patterns are very clear by now. JD has the talent, but is growth-averse. If she were willing to go to a non-Barabe training environment, they might progress enough to stay in the mix for the top ten internationally.

      I still don't completely get Kirsten's rationale. Dylan was willing to go through 2018. That would put Kristen at age 25. The rationale for the split seems to be she wants to go to 2022. Really? Why not then do what Aliona Savchenco has done - look for a new partner for your last quad? Why does Kirsten need an eight year run-up? Is somebody she pairs with now (say, Marinaro) going to deliver more in 2018 than Dylan could have done?

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    7. LOL DUMBEST FUCKING BLOGGER I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE. SOMEONE NEEDS A SHRINK. HOLY WOW OUT OF CONTROL.

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    8. Yes, someone does...

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  18. Oycanada needs a shrink BIG TIME. This blogger is a an unstable creeeepo.

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