It's about this guy:
Matt K's goldenskate post about Judge Shawn Rettsat of the US
Can anyone confirm that Rettstatt is on the Olympic dance panel?
Matt K's post (other people's quotes to which he is responding are in blue and purple regular type and italics). His post is in bold and italics. His pdf links are live on his post or they can be cut-and-pasted from here, I believe, but the links in this re-post aren't live, obviously.
Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
Mr. Shawn Rettsatt of the USA
Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
Why are people assuming that it's him? Just because he's American? We don't know who gave what score (to all our chagrin), so I don't think it's fair to accuse him.
Shawn Rettsatt has been judging for years. If he was scoring people to undermine competitors, certainly he would have had a talking to by now.
ETA: If there's some history of him scoring V/M low in past events, then perhaps there's validity in the assumption, however please point that out rather than throwing generalities.
ETA2: Okay, apparently there was a judge at the 2011 4CC that gave V/M 5s in PCS and it happened to be that Shawn Rettsatt was on the judging panel. However correlation=/=causation. Unless it's been publicly declared somehow, there is no way to prove he was the judge in question in either situation. It's speculation at best. http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc..._SD_Scores.pdf
Since you asked I'll take you up on your offer. I researched the events that SHAWN RETTSTATT (USA) has judged V/M in from all the events from last year and this year. And in these events that Shawn Rettstatt was judging V/M, there is always one judge's set of marks for V/M that are significantly lower than the rest . Most interesting is at Worlds 2013 SD (where he sat on the panel and V/M got lowballed by one judge) vs the FD (in which he did not sit on the panel and V/M's marks rose again). I'll get to this near the end of the post.
CoR 2012: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gprus2012/
V/M judge #5 SD:
GPF 2012: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1213/
V/M judge #1 SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._SD_Scores.pdf
V/M judge # 5 FD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FD_Scores.pdf
GPF 2013: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1314/
V/M judge #7 SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._SD_Scores.pdf
V/M judge #1 FD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FD_Scores.pdf
Worlds 2013, SD:
V/M judge #1 SD: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._SD_Scores.pdf
In the FD, unlike the SD, SHAWN RETTSTATT (USA) was not drawn to judge on the FD panel. And surprise, surprise. In that segment, V/M didn't get lowballed by a single judge. In fact every single one of them gave them at least a 10.00 somewhere in PCS and all marks across the FD panel were consistently in the mid to high 9s - 10s: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._FD_Scores.pdf
I think it's hilarious whichever judge gave V/M 5s in all PCS marks at 2011 4CC, though. Shawn Rettstatt or not, seeing those numbers on paper is pretty funny You'd think that she or he would know better and might actually be asked to provide some explanation in the roundtable discussions.
You mentioned that "But in the end, again, it doesn't matter because the scores were thrown out". But when marks are so close between V/M and D/W, it does make a difference. At this particular GPF in Japan this one judge's marks for V/M were glaringly obvious in both SD and FD (8s?) that I hope is looked into.
I think someone posted here that Shawn Rettstatt will be the US Olympic ice dance judge in Sochi. Oh Goody. When that time comes I'll keep my eyes peeled for a set of marks given to V/M that rivals that of Chock/Bates
Rettstatt lowballs VM in skating skills and linking moves.
I love Mrs. P. Oh it couldn't be, because if one judge were consistently screwing over VM, he'd be given a good talking to!
Yes, because figure skating is so so so so on the up and up. And judges faithfully refer to the rulebook when they score skaters. They're not scoring who is "tight with their music" "gives 110%" or "the real deal"; they're not getting the dirt done in GOE and pcs. It's strictly by the rulebook.
All the practices required in the judging game are there to promote the impression of integrity and to cover their asses, not to ensure actual integrity. We all know there are businesses that do the same thing; it's not unique.
I haven't read all that many interviews with judges, but the ones who do speak out sound like morons. I don't know what they're doing at those seminars - maybe making sure they know enough to pass the tests that get them credentials, and then that's the end of applying their training to their judging. I'm not simply referring to the judge who posts on fsu, but the former judge quoted as saying Katerina Witt was Carmen and other incisive observations about skating merit.
I'm sure everyone's eyes are rolling in the back of their heads when some people wax sanctimonious about how the ISU regulates itself to assure integrity. The ISU regulates itself to assure its ass is covered.
The incremental dings in the scores that make sure this skating team scores lower than the other skating team. The fact that CoP is pseudo statistical means that the dirt can be done in the margins, with fractions and shades, a lot of little point leaks, and then the protocols sheet looks on the up and up. One of the ways to cook the scores is to be the outlier intentionally, so you're the one tossed and the lowest score that would have gotten tossed stays in. The lowest score could be from a judge scoring more conservatively across the board than the rest of the panel. So for Virtue and Moir, that judge is counted because you scored much lower and got your scores thrown out. For Davis and White, you don't need to score higher than the highest scoring judge, you just need to score higher than the conservative scoring judge, so Virtue and Moir get that person's low scores factored in, Davis and White don't.
And we can't even tell if Virtue and Moir's Judge 2 is Davis and White's Judge 2, for example, because the ISU even wants THAT secret (because of that danger of undue influence and bribery which secrecy actually promotes, so that's classic ISU up is down logic). The ISU is the mafia of sports.
After this weekend's event, Scott echoed earlier quotes from Charlie about what a great story is this rivalry. It is? A rivalry where one team is never permitted to defeat another, even when the winners are outskated? What kind of story is that? Virtue and Moir aren't allowed to beat Davis White.
As to the integrity of the sport, in 2010 Marina Zoueva and Igor Shpilband said they had no idea until the ice dance event itself if their teams would be allowed to prevail. Everyone agreed that the ice dance event at Worlds 2009 came down to who coached whom. I suppose since Meryl and Charlie started winning everything that's when the sport became clean.
Here are some quotes from a 2009 interview with Maia Usova:
What are your thoughts on ice dancing today? Do you follow it? Ever since I decided to become a certified technical specialist – yes. I don’t know why, but I suddenly thought of getting back into elite figure skating. I still can’t explain it. I guess it’s because of what I saw, that most technical specialists are Canadians and Americans. Until recently, there was only one of ours, Sergei Ponomarenko. I thought this was wrong, I guess. You can always see that even technical specialists have their biases. The fact that such a judge receives practically no compensation only exacerbates the problem. I think that if those people had a solid salary, they would at a minim fear losing it.
Do you like that work? Honestly, I’m not sure yet. If I didn’t have a husband that makes me feel safe and protected in every way, I wouldn’t be doing it. I wouldn’t live in Russia, either. What’s more, over the last two years I’ve acquired quite a few enemies because of my work. Some Russian coaches just expect that I must automatically give their athletes high levels. But I can’t do that when the stuff isn’t there. Sometimes, though, they just don’t understand.
Rettstatt was on the USFSA board of directors, at least in 2005. He's a high profile member of the USFSA, appears at general conferences and seminars. He's one of their representatives. He's not somebody who is going to be taken aside. He's somebody who takes others aside.
He's not just a judge and former skater, his history is a high ranking voting member of the USFSA infrastructure.
Furthermore, if this is him, do we really think he's the only rotten apple in the barrel? That when you have a situation that we had this weekend, that the incremental differences leaving DW in first by an under two point margin is just how it all shook out?
When there's an off the grid mark, the purpose is to keep in the next lowest that would otherwise be thrown out. If it's Rettstatt, I'm sure he didn't invent this. If quick-on-the-uptake fans figured this out a long time ago, you know judging panels have.
Do we think there's only corruption in Russia among judges from former eastern bloc countries or countries with a big population from there?
Rettstatt IS fb friends with Jacquie White, but also with David Islam. Islam's a coach, though, not just a (grateful?) dad. It's like Tanith said - you need your judge there. And I guess not just to give you what you deserve, but to block your opponents.
Ice dance is corrupt. It's always been corrupt. It's corrupt today.