Wednesday, September 11, 2013

Throw it down, Beverly Smith

Beverly Smith rebukes DW spin without breaking a sweat

She's so good. She did one of the only pieces on VM in the past that sounded as if it were written by an adult for adults - the interview about Igor's departure.

I love this part:
All of their lifts are new, of course. Virtue and Moir discussed using their famed “Goose” lift, but binned the idea. “We don’t want to look like vintage Virtue and Moir,” he said. “We love the Goose and it’s a fan favourite, but we don’t want to turn on the TV and watch what we did four years ago, and turn it on again in 2014, and have people ask: ‘What have they done in the last four years?’”

As people might ask, watching Davis White: If they're so good why didn't they win in 2009 when they did this program at the Staples Center?

Also good:

Besides, Virtue and Moir insist that lifts must add to the program and be part of it, rather than looking as if they are included for the sole purpose of gaining points.

I haven't seen a DW lift yet that looked like it was created to fit their program.

Virtue and Moir are as good as, but very different skaters than, Gordeeva and Grinkov, so the fact that the theme of the free dance is, as expected, also the theme of G&G's 1994 pairs long program doesn't mean they'll have a similar dynamic. (The article doesn't point that out but G&G's was "their story" and this is "VM's story.")

I think a lot of people will be amused by the description of the "storm part" (Scott's word) when VM confront "external chaos" and have to figure their way out.

What - can't you get out the way you got in?

Or did that external chaos just randomly visit itself upon you? How, HOW do you get out of the chaos?

I can't even riff on that.*

It seems to me they have taken inspiration from Carmen in one respect - the audience watching Carmen waited the entire program for the moment Tessa launched into the rotational at the end. The electricity in the crowd was palpable every time. Smith says this program's finale highlights back-to-back rotational lifts, which IMO is smart in a program that's going to otherwise showcase man woman harmony using classical movement. Not to mention Smith tells us the rotational lifts start before the finale music, which is a quintessential Marina device to extend momentum and create suspense, so the excitement is already at a pitch, and the start of the finale music mid-element explodes it.

P.S. - if past is precedent, cue the insta-drop of the latest up-the-despicable-ante in the Cassandra and Scott parade of photo dickography. He and Tessa just talked about "their story" with Beverly Smith. Maybe Scott will try for third base to counterprogram WHAT THEY CHOSE TO SAY. Or Scott will show us how well he's getting to know Cassandra's tonsils. He and Tessa are trying to figure a way out of the chaos - creating even more has been their go to.

P.P.S. - as terrific as this article is, I like how it showcases that words are just sounds to VM, not how people communicate meaning and information. When they were in Russia for 2011, they were sick of the Goose - everybody was sick of the Goose! Now they love the Goose - so much they actually considered putting it in their free dance, but then realized that would be lame.

No they didn't, but saying they considered it lets them make a point.

*Well, yes I can. Just - and not to take it all overly literally - one would think you'd figure a way out of the chaos BEFORE bringing an innocent child into your world. For many people that would be the priority.

108 comments:

  1. The way VM have shown how they think, I doubt they attribute any external chaos to themselves or their own choices. Nope. They're the victims. The fans and/or Moirville's expectations are to blame.

    We are supposed to roll over and let them walk all over us anytime they vomit some new Scott & GF photos onto a public site. How dare we think it's despicable or disgusting. Didn't you know we're supposed to be grateful.

    *Our* attitude is the source of chaos. VM take any responsibility? Not a chance.

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    1. It's pretty difficult to comprehend how they'd bring a little girl into this world and think it's okay to "protect" her (oh, is that what you're doing, Scott) by displaying her father sucking face and grabbing the asses of ladies who are not mommy all over the internet.

      And just to keep things extra respectful, choose as your second sham girlfriend someone so eager to be a model you know she and her parents are keeping a virtual scrapbook of every single photo and event because they're proud of her opportunity in the spotlight. I know I'd just love to realize my dad was fake dating a girl who was excited about it.

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    2. "I know I'd just love to realize my dad was fake dating a girl who was excited about it."

      Not just the girl, the whole freaking group of friends is "excited" about it. These are going to be people the daughter grows up to know as her parents' friends. It's embarrassing. She's going to be one confused little girl some day.

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    3. IMO it goes beyond embarrassing, and who cares if your parents know some jerks. That's life.

      I'm talking about feeling unsettled, weirded out and insecure. It's freaking primal. It doesn't matter what you "know" or what your day to day reality is. You can "get it" and understand the rationale (although boy, it must be a doozy) but you can't unfeel it and you can't unsee it, and neither can her future school mates, for that matter. The images, as images, PERIOD, are upsetting for a child or even teen to see from her father. The context doesn't matter. The images go right to the core.

      And then to know the lady was into it for her own ambitious reasons is a pure insult/affront any child.

      One hopes the kid won't feel any pressure to be okay about it, although that's no safe bet.

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    4. "The images, as images, PERIOD,
      The context doesn't matter. The images go right to the core."

      Absolutely.

      And surely Scott knows this. Otherwise, why all the effort to create so many and such specific images. He knows it goes right to the core. It's very telling what this says about them.

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    5. If it's telling I don't know what it's telling because you can pump everything into the computer - GOLD MEDAL, need to focus, huge family, skating crazy, infantile personalities, narcissism, belligerence, skating crazy, boredom, skating business, know-it-all-iness, saving face, guilt, gratitude, skating business, community status, naturally crude, spoiled, bratty, mean, need to be part of the big deal in town - and the computer just short-circuits and waves the white flag. The data here reads "challenging, somewhat dysfunctional, ambivalent, exhausting, short-sighted" blah blah blah but it doesn't produce what they're doing and why they continue doing it. It just doesn't. This is so over the line that to quote "Friends" "the line is a dot to you."

      I think even that is too much credit - they don't see any line but them and us. And still, that doesn't explain Scott parading himself this way as often as he does it. And the GAMES. Now you see it, now you don't. Picture - what picture? Who me? Host a sham photo? I don't even have an account! They know this is shady - content included - and all they care about is what it LOOKS like is happening.

      Nothing explains it. There's something really wrong. Unusually wrong. I don't mean with the marriage, but how this came to be points to something extremely wrong, not merely dysfunctional and not even merely toxic. And there's no way to normalize this. You don't introduce your child to whoever the Sham Queen is, she cuddles up to or smiles with the sham gfs and everything's safe and okay. You don't tell a kid this is normal and okay. That's unfair. It's not either one of those things.

      And you don't pull a "this has nothing to do with her (the child) - keep her in the bubble" because it does have to do with her.

      And truthfully the word that comes to mind for TM's future is "humiliating." It's humiliating. She had no choice in the matter, no say, but it's her daddy, and the whole world had a ringside seat.

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  2. "Besides, Virtue and Moir insist that lifts must add to the program and be part of it, rather than looking as if they are included for the sole purpose of gaining points."

    SHOTS FIRED.

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    1. " All of their lifts are new, of course. Virtue and Moir discussed using their famed “Goose” lift, but binned the idea. “We don’t want to look like vintage Virtue and Moir,” he said. “We love the Goose and it’s a fan favourite, but we don’t want to turn on the TV and watch what we did four years ago, and turn it on again in 2014, and have people ask: ‘What have they done in the last four years?’”

      There are quite a few quotes I absolutely adore in the article, but upon re-reading, I think this is my favorite, especially as we're essentially on the eve of Davis and White debuting their programs.

      "As people might ask, watching Davis White: If they're so good why didn't they win in 2009 when they did this program at the Staples Center?"

      Indeed. If you turn down the sound on DW's programs, the only way to tell them apart is the costumes. Everything else has looked the same for the past half of a decade.

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    2. To be fair to Smith, the Staples Center quote was mine, not hers. She didn't take any direct hits.

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    3. I know it's yours and not hers. I just completely agree with the sentiment. :)

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  3. “I feel it is a really Russian classical program, even though I made it in North America for North American skaters,” she said. “But it is my thanks to Russia. I do have to do something for my country in which I was born. I really truly believe it is Tessa and Scott who are the best to perform that.”

    Love this, love Marina, love it all.

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  4. Has Beverly Smith been tapped for official SC news before, or is this a new association?

    Wonderful article. The quote 4:29 posted - I hope this dampens some of the criticism of Marina. It's obvious this is super important to her, and who is she bestowing the honour on? Exactly.

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  5. Amazing. Two very good articles so far about Virtue-Moir and their programs. This one and also Rosie DiManno's (who would have thought so). I hope this continues all season.

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  6. I also liked this part:

    “We go into that last minute pretty exhausted,” Virtue said. “But we like being ambitious and challenging ourselves.”

    That sounds like they're onto DW's schtick about acting exhausted. She also was talking up their quickness.

    Loved the part about the Goose. When DW said last year that the judges asked them to repeat a lift (which was complete BS), my thought was, if you guys are so athletic, why didn't you come up with a new lift that was even better and made the judges forget that one?

    The Goose was great (and more difficult than anything anyone else has done) but it feels like a junior lift compared to the lifts in Carmen, and I bet Seasons.

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    1. I took the "judges asked us to repeat the lift" kind of the way I took them ditching Le Strada. It wasn't a compliment to the repeated lift, it was a warning about whatever the new lift was. The new lift wasn't pulling it off/hiding the cheap. (I do mean cheap and not "cheat" just FYI)

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  7. I believe Beverly Smith has been writing about figure skating for years and years. She's written some coffee table style books, and I'm pretty sure I've read her "Figure Skating - a Celebration" somewhere along the way. These books are not where you go to learn about technique in any depth, but their focus is the skating, and the personalities are important only to further the history she's sharing about skating.

    I don't know where she's been all this time, and why she's popped up writing for Skate Canada in what appears to be a regular gig for the Olympic year, but it's one of the best moves Skate Canada has made in recent memory. Or maybe she's been keeping her distance and lifted the ban for this season.

    I also thought Marina came off very well in this article, but I always think she comes off well, give or take a "50 percent sport/50 percent art" comment that she makes to get around giving a real answer. I think it's clear that Marina and Virtue/Moir collaborate fully. They're not her puppets. As much as both Scott and Tessa love music, they're not going to have Marina's mental and physical library of music, nor that library's diversity, nor its full context, they're not going to have her frame of reference, and they're not the cultural omnivore she is. Therefore, it makes sense that she'd present ideas and they'd yay or nay what she presents more often than they'd bring the music to her (that said, Funny Face obviously came from Tessa's Audrey Hepburn fandom, and reportedly Valse Triste was Tessa's idea). But, they talk, they share their vision of what they want the Olympic programs to look and sound land feel like, and the sort of music that would bring that vision to reality.

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  8. am I the only one who find it hilarious that D/W's former coach was arrested on the eve D/W perform their olympic programs? Like couldn't the news report his arrest another day? Perhaps this is a sign that USFSA PR is self destrucing??

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    1. There's nothing hilarious about what's happened to that former coach or the timing of his arrest. It's sad. And it certainly has nothing to do with Davis and White or the USFSA's PR, nor will it have any bearing on their performances this weekend or how they're covered in the press.

      If the situation was reversed and Paul MacIntosh or some former coach coach of Virtue and Moir's is arrested for committing a crime before they skate at Finlandia Trophy, would you find that situation hilarious as well?

      I'm all for reiterating that Virtue and Moir are superior skaters to Davis and White, but I think any attempts to tie their former coach's unfortunate situation to Davis and White in any way is petty projection.

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    2. I hope you're the only one. That's a pretty distasteful opinion. I doubt that the USFSA is all that concerned about PR in this story. D/W haven't been coached by him for years. Although it's unfortunate that they were mentioned in the article, why should this affect them?

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    3. I agree that it's a very sad story. Meth addiction is no joke, parts of Detroit have been hit hard over the years, and it really takes you over. It's not a party drug. I hope this guy turns things around. If he's who I remember from an old video, smiling over the boards at a very very young Meryl and Charlie, he conveyed such warmth in that moment - the perfect blend of encouragement and "we're supposed to enjoy this - this isn't life and death."

      They haven't been with him for years. Marina has been their coach for their senior careers. And this would be equivalent to something similar happening to VM's old coaches. I don't think anybody would find that entertaining.

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  9. I think this article got missed too

    http://www.lfpress.com/2013/09/05/embracing-the-coaster

    What is going on?! Even Ryan Pyette is improving! There has been more strong-to-acceptable articles on them, in the last couple of weeks, then there has been in the entire time since the Olympics!

    But

    "The taping began at their summer competition in Montreal, continued at their training home in Canton, Mich., and stopped in for this high performance. There are Ilderton trips in the works and "

    Of course there is.

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    1. Of course. The Olympics are only a delivery system for Ilderton self-promotion.

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  10. Even though it's just spin, I find quotes like this one sad:

    >>>“What I felt about Vancouver was so intense, it was a blur,” Virtue said. “I’d see pictures from that time and not remember any of it. I don’t have the memories I wished I had.”

    They have done something about that this time.<<<<

    Which is the documentary. So they're emphasizing how having an official record of their memories is important. Kate's scrapbooking alone doesn't cut it, private video apparently doesn't count. It's really meaningful to have an actual documentary that's not just for them, but that the public sees. Only then are those memories validated. It's a wonderful thing when you're in a situation such as the Olympics, where everything's a blur and you can't take it in, but there's this other record you can look back on.

    Kind of like being way too young to have your own clear memories, but somebody preserved the special times for you so you can look back on it and see you were part of it all.

    Props to Pyette for actually writing something reality-based, i.e., projects like this by definition have limited access. The Ilderton stuff is just one big eye roll. Will everybody on camera be wearing a yellow sweatshirt?

    Pyette's reminder is appreciated, especially as the producers are quoted saying VM gave them access you maybe wouldn't get in a typical sports documentary. That quote is couched, to say the least, but it's implying a further than typical reach behind-the-scenes. So good for Pyette for noting that still, this is not really a full picture. It's progress from his previous function as mouthpiece-without-portfolio for Virtue Moir.

    I must admit I'm curious. High performance athletes have sports shrinks up their sphincters. Mentors, counselors, confidentes, advisors, a team preparing them mentally and psychologically as well as physically. It's a specialized situation - street experience apparently doesn't suffice. It's no joke. You take it seriously and seriously prepare yourself.

    I wonder if Scott and Tessa consulted a child psychologist or child development or even adolescent development expert about the sham imagery with Jessica and with Cassandra vis a vis their child, since that seems as if it would be important. Most parents wouldn't mess around with something like that. And on top of that, how to deal with the decision that they didn't publicly acknowledge their own child's existence for (at least) the first three years of her life, all the while friends, friends-of-friends, and Moirville were elbowing their way into the spotlight (thus demonstrating that it's exciting and important) and there's no do over. There's no editing her back into the contemporaneous record. It's final.

    Or, if it's kind of like how they did p.r. - winging it on a lot of assumptions and figuring they already know it all.

    P.S. - I really hope this roller coaster analogy doesn't become a thing. It's already pretty strained, no sense beating it into the ground.

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  11. And here comes the DW PR:

    http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2013/09/12/60385730

    Sounds like a lot of non-skating, "emotional connection" gobbledeygook.

    The dance choreographer is a little OTT in her praise of Meryl's intellect and the team's hard work, professionalism, and gratitude. I have never heard of a choreographer speak so much about that, and not how the team has absorbed the dance. The comments sound fake, almost scripted.

    No mention of Derek in the choreography for the SD... specifically mentions Marina only. Surprised they aren't hyping that. What happened?

    And from twitter:
    Lynn Rutherford ‏@LynnRutherford 12m
    Lifts in Davis&White's FD are memorable. 1st one, she floats right up on his back; 2nd, she hits (and holds) straight handstand. #SLC2013

    As expected, new lifts this year... but let's see how different those entries, exits, and balance points actually are...

    The handstand thing might backfire as many people are sick of gymnastics on ice.

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    1. Oh please if someone was making the same comments about Tessa Virtue you would be all over it.

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    2. I would expect them to talk about how Tessa was able to pick it up so quickly, move so fluidly, embody the movement... things that actually have to do with choreography.

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    3. she may be able to do a handstand but can she BACKFLIP into a lift?

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    4. I'm going to be shocked if she does that handstand in a way that doesn't involve her and Charlie's cores being pasted together while he uses both arms to hang onto her for dear life.

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    5. No, because the ability to project herself and be caught by Charlie would require split second timing and outstanding edge control and stability by Charlie. I think Charlie would probably fall over if they tried that one.

      The lift will be... Charlie skates on two feet, Meryl hoists herself up or is hauled up by Charlie, they're connected in at least 3 places for stability, then he lets go for two seconds while she "ta das" a handstand, then his arms grab her again, as she falls out of position like a sack of potatoes, and gets on two feet or does a knee slide... OC had a great post showing the basic mechanics behind all their lifts.

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    6. 4:38 - I didn't see your post when I was writing mine, and you said it much more succinctly.
      -4:40

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    7. Yeah, I'm like REALLY? with the handstand, since that's inverse difficulty. Difficult is Tessa Virtue kneeling on Scott's back and keeping her hips, pelvis, core, shoulders, head stable in space using her core strength. A handstand basically plants Meryl's center of gravity directly on Charlie's - her center of gravity is completely grounded/stablized and of course, only the legs have to be in space. IOW, it's a show dance move, something you'd see Jamie Sale do in SOI.

      I do love how no eye contact and a lack of connection with Meryl IS PART OF THE THEME.

      Naturally this will break 200. It has to. It's too in-your-face b.s.

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    8. I just read the icenetwork article. I think 3:17 summed it up perfectly with this: "Sounds like a lot of non-skating, "emotional connection" gobbledeygook."

      They rambled about character development and a bunch of fluff stuff, but there's no talk about the actual dancing.

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    9. Not to mention how they enter and exit the move isn't mentioned.

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    10. "I do love how no eye contact and a lack of connection with Meryl IS PART OF THE THEME."

      Hahaha I caught that too.

      Hey, you gotta hand it to them. They're not dumb.

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    11. Not to mention a handstand is so so so "middle eastern bride seduces cold and dangerous husband".

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    12. They aren't hyping Derek possibly because it's been mentioned that Derek is a brilliant trickmeister, and Derek also mentioned that he liked something he did for DW so much he considered using it for himself and his non-dancer partner, Kelly Pickler, on DWTs. Pickler is a young (enough) uber fit singer, a non-dancer, and based on the schedule of DWTs that meant he figured he could get her to pull that move off in couple of days. Not the message DW want to put out.

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    13. I don't remember Lynn tweeting anything about V/M's much more difficult handstand lift.


      Once again, Marina is a freaking genius. She's added just enough eye-catching "transitions" in-and-out of elements to make it look like they're doing something different. Honestly, if any of you out there is really fit, you should show how easy some of these moves are. Can I do it? Hell no. But I certainly know this isn't figure skating.

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    14. "OW, it's a show dance move, something you'd see Jamie Sale do in SOI."

      OMG, this x 100.

      Another thing I just noticed - Meryl gets into position and then puts her legs up - Tessa it's a straight sweep up.

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    15. And nobody's mentioning it's what VM did last season in Carmen, only better and cleaner.

      This is trick city.

      The blog will have a post for it tonight. If this even contends for gold they may as well throw ice dance out of the Olympics. It's ridiculous.

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  12. have you seen d/w's fd? their lifts look so bland

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  13. Have fun, OC. http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?88940-Davis-amp-White-17-quot-They-re-more-than-good-They-re-Gr-r-reat!-quot&p=3992700&viewfull=1#post3992700

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    1. is it just me or does that handstand lift look alot like this https://pp.vk.me/c425817/v425817028/225e/ut-hvpk7V4Y.jpg

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    2. So...Samson and Delilah, Esmerelda and the Hunchback, and the two people at the ball in Die Fledermaus, were all "authentically" Persian?

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    3. OH NO THEY DIDN'T

      except it's edited to make it 10x easier - of course Meryl can do a handstand, but look at the headlock and the centre of gravities all nice in a line there...

      9:50 bahahaha yep - I watched it first without the sound off...I would not have exactly gotten Persian from it.

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    4. I hope that means that whatever V/M have for lifts is so incredible, that they're smirking that D/W wanted that one.

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    5. Oh my, this is so bad, they look like a junior team. The lack of toe picking and hopping sure exposes the skating skills - not! Stiff limbs - Meryl's bent knees and ankles, Charlie's hunched shoulders. They tried to be VM with the slow sinuous music, it's evident that they are a far cry from it.

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    6. No footage of the twizzles? I wanted to see what twists and jumps into the twizzles they came up with this year.

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    7. The very first lift looks like a lift in their S&D FD. The "handstand" lift looks like a bastardized version of the straight line lift V/M did in Carmen.

      I don't know what the very last "lift" is...did they take out the rotation out of their "signature" split rotational lift?

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    8. heres a better pic of the lift http://photography.ice-dance.com/2013-14/13SLCB/DPractTh/13SLCB-DPractTh-3871-DW-RR.jpg

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    9. Admittedly it's hard to see by the angle, but Charlie's technique in getting Meryl into that lift looks like he's hoisting a tree trunk for the caber toss.

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    10. yes I agree the angle may be misleading but look at Charlie's feet - they may be parallel but they are not aligned - thus making his base larger in order to support the lift. We'll just have to wait and see..

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    11. Anon 6:55, do you have a similar photo of V/M's handstand lift for comparison's sake? (More for shits and giggles)

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    12. And the exit down of that lift is crap; Tessa basically comes down on Scott's one shoulder and Scott is rotating fast and smoothly before he sets her down; Meryl is hauled onto Charlie's back, her legs swinging wildly every which way. Total garbage.

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    13. "Bastardized" is the perfect word not just for their spin on VM's lift from last year, but their skating.

      WHY did they pilfer a move from Carmen that just highlights how much better VM are than they are?

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    14. "WHY did they pilfer a move from Carmen that just highlights how much better VM are than they are?"

      That's one of my big questions too. One of the biggest smoke-and-mirrors tricks that they've used over the years is the "totally different but equal" when comparing to VM. As much as possible, they've avoided comparison of their actual skating to VM's actual skating. Now, they've gone and used one of VM's lifts from Carmen.

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    15. @ 7:27

      https://pp.vk.me/c307903/v307903791/cef1/QwbUl7Oq6lU.jpg

      and one from the back cause the video is shot from that angle

      https://pp.vk.me/c307903/v307903791/cf01/BJsZahCGgJI.jpg

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    16. "WHY did they pilfer a move from Carmen that just highlights how much better VM are than they are?"

      Probably so they could humiliate V/M and Skate Canada when they score higher for that lift than V/M ever did?

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    17. Hilariously true and so sad.

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  14. This looks like a very deliberate VM knock-off. Especially that lift. Looks as though they are trying to say we can do what you do better. Too bad about all that shitty skating. Please.

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  15. Good eye 7:22! On the video it looks like he shifts his weight drastically to his left leg to counter balance Meryl. Leverage. Scott stays centered and uses his core.

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  16. I think it's hysterical how much you are ripping apart their FD. Just tells me they're a threat to V/M--otherwise you wouldn't bother giving it such an intense breakdown. :)

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    1. Isn't the whole point of judging skating to break routines down to evaluate their quality?

      Oh, that's right, DW ubers think we're being mean when we analyze their programs and point all of the crap out. We're just supposed to ignore it and go on.

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    2. Even other DW fans seemingly aren't allowed to say anything negative. It's just strictly a love fest with them! DW can do no wrong!

      What's fair is fair. If you can't handle the criticism, I suggest you don't read.

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    3. Anon 7:58, you break it down then for us as to why these lifts are so much better than V/M's.

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    4. so we can't criticize D/W now? IMO their handstand lift would look better if meryl was looking at the floor instead of looking at her body and if charlie's feet were aligned. it would look more 'cleaner'. also if meryl was balancing on charlie's arms during the exit of the lift instead of clinging on for her dear life.

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    5. Intense breakdown? LOL. Not yet no. I for one can't really remember most of it but I am STUNNED that they would try to rip a move like that. Can't quite figure the rationale there. It doesn't even really matter who's is better. That was straight up arrogance. Or stupidity, time will tell...

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    6. Hilarious. This blog is mainly about exposing VM's dubious personal lives. DW fans read it so they can feel all smug about how DW are better people, then get butthurt when the discussion turns to their skating. I have never seen such an insecure group (they have good reason).

      The comments are anon, so don't expect to be able to control the discussion by whining like you do on the boards.

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    7. 7:28 - what the HELL are you talking about? Davis White have outscored VM twice at Worlds, and the media is practically coronating them Olympic champions before 2014 and the entire discussion here has asked why this is. Are they better skaters? Is their technique stronger? Are their elements more difficult and the execution of higher quality? Is their basic skating delivered with greater power and speed? NOPE.

      What do you mean by "threat"? If you mean - OMG, Virtue Moir fans are afraid Davis White will win despite Davis White sucking ass compared to Virtue Moir, FUCK yes, Virtue Moir fans are afraid this travesty will repeat again in Sochi. If you want to gloat that a bag of junk is going to beat the best ice dancers in the world, feel free, but please don't pretend VM fans don't know this has already happened multiple times.

      If by "threat" you mean Virtue Moir are afraid Meryl and Charlie's skating will be better than Virtue Moir's, then I assure you, no, Virtue Moir fans never have been afraid Meryl and Charlie's skating would ever be better than Virtue and Moir's.

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  17. Analyze? If that's what you call it. Trust me, if you felt there was nothing "wrong" with "analyzing" their programs. You post it on FSU instead of here :)

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    1. Contrary to popular belief, FSU isn't the be all and end all of the skating world...

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    2. People do try to analyze DW's programs on FSU, but it usually gets shut down by DW ubers who whine that people are being mean to Meryl and Charlie. That said, I'm sure a critique will be forthcoming after the FD is skated in competition tomorrow.

      Also, keep in mind not everyone has an FSU account.

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    3. we'd get chewed out for that on FSU

      and on goldenshit
      etc.

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    4. Heck you'd get chewed out even discussing that kind of shit on V/M fsu thread.

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    5. Oh what bullshit 8:07. Analyzing programs doesn't happen on fsu because nobody there knows skating and the people who do are ignored in favor of non-skating critiques. Over there I've read that if a skater gets a standing ovation in a foreign country, they are a true artist. Nobody has mentioned where the criteria for "true artist" lives in CoP.

      FSU doesn't analyze skating. FSU "analyzes" performance. There is a difference that fsu is not good at appreciating. Not to mention, boards that use screen names immediately become political and when a poster has an opinion they become a target. Don't pretend that is the place for real discussion. If YOU have something to say that's positive about Meryl and Charlie's skating in relation to CoP, good technique, how the ISU says dance is scored, and vis a vis VM, nobody will stop you. Nobody's done it yet.

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    6. Just admit it, OC - all of the DW fans have been posting brilliant explanations analyzing DW's skating under the CoP in great detail, and you delete them before we can read them ;)

      j/k of course.

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  18. Also, where exactly is the Persian dancing in this FD?

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    Replies
    1. I think it's in the first 3 seconds - hard to tell though.

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    2. Well, it's some kind of "Persion" esque posing. Dancing, not so much.

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    3. Exactly, any movements which are vaguely related to the persian "theme" are not incorporated into the body lines and shapes, merely done while posing or stationary.

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  19. All these points about the lifts are fantastic, but I don't know if it will make a difference in the scoring (ok, I know it won't). Probably most people will say that since Meryl is thinner, her version is lighter and more balletic.

    That "omg she's on his back lift" is really ugly. I'm surprised that got all the attention. I don't get a feeling of "how'd they do that" at all; I think the seams show too much. And all the splits. Not so extraordinary.

    What struck me was how there is more two foot skating, lunging, and knee slides, than, I think, ever. What happened to "it's an honor if he even makes eye contact"? In the ten seconds I watched, he was beseeching, beseeching, and beseeching some more. All in the aforementioned positions, natch.

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  20. I saw the videos. What is with all the lunges, dragging each other around & skating apart? Meryl's position in the first lift doesn't look good at all and the recycled elements (always a part of a D/W program). SMH.

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  21. The TSL gossip-mongers have declared after watching Davis/White's SD that Virtue/Moir should go ahead and redo their program.

    LOL. A program for which they scored a 76 and received absolutely rave reviews from the judges and spectators alike. Better change it, though!

    And they wonder why no one takes them seriously.

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    Replies
    1. Summer competition scores are always inflated, there's no way they would have gotten a 76 internationally.

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    2. I'd very much like to hear Jenny and Dave break down why Virtue and Moir should scrap their SD. I'm sure it would be a hilariously entertaining analysis in the same way watching drunk people trying to act sober is hilariously entertaining.

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    3. 12:28
      Does that apply to DW also?

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    4. 12:45
      Yes, but to a lesser extent because they're at least competing in an international competition.

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    5. Clearly, Marina has DAMAGED Virtue and Moir by giving Davis and White a similar lift (which isn't really that similar at all, sans both women being in candlestick positions of a sort) that the Davis and White ubers incorrectly believe is more difficult.

      DAMN THAT MARINA ZOUEVA. She's so pathetic and BAD for Virtue and Moir. If only they would leave her and go to a coach who won't construct programs without first determining how idiotic and biased fans/commenters will react to them!

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    6. 12:28 if they'd skated like that internationally a 76 would have been a legitimate result, as you'd realize if you were able to recognize how well they skated.

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    7. my fair lady doesnt even capture the character of the finnstep though

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    8. @12:28, even more reason why that TSL statement was asinine since Virtue and Moir's SD has yet to be skated in an international competition.

      But they'd better change it because Davis and White's scored a 72! Oooooh!

      Pathetic.

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  22. So, I just watched the SD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TJAky40ooU&feature=youtu.be

    It's fucking Die Fledermaus, down to the costumes.

    Also, those sure are some hard-working, multi-purpose twizzles. Season 6, folks, season 6...

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    1. Someone doing play by play for FSU, who I supposed doesn't pay much attention to dance, innocently commented something like "only two twizzles, is that even allowed?"

      I found it delicious.

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    2. If the Russians need more snow to store up for Sochi, they can find it flying off Meryl and Charlie's blades during that FinnStep.

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    3. LMAO they are still doing the same twizzles

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    4. That short dance is horrible. It's flat. VM are miles better. Their patterns compared to DW are HUGE, they cover twice the ice in every stroke, the precision, timing, speed and nuance in the Finnstep bury DW. Although I see a similarity from the DW sd to previous programs, minus the bullshit that passes as showmanship (and which is Marina's showmanship more than theirs) both programs come off pedestrian. I guess they were told not to hop and skip, but they're truly exposed without it. I haven't looked at WP's short dance yet, but so far I'd say that Paul Islam acquitted themselves in their Finnstep demonstrating not just a better Finnstep, but better skating skills over all, and I think we all know the Shibutanis are going to kick DW ass when they finally do their sd, as the style and music is right up their alley.

      This is going to be an ugly, Emperor's New Clothes season. There is no way those DW programs are competitive. But they got the green light from the USFSA and the ISU, and some sort of fix must be in.

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  23. wow, they were rocking like a boat in a storm trying to maintain the edges long enough for them to count. They also bob up and down a lot because they cannot maintain deep soft knees.

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    1. 2:53
      Don't you know, that is Meryl *floating* across the ice.
      (According to a comment on FSU)

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    2. I noticed they were rocking up and down throughout their fd practice like a boat breaching the breakers. I was trying to figure out what the hell when I realized it was pumping. They're pumping. They're not getting real estate with their stroking, but to keep any flow going they have to pump like crazy

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  24. protocols are up can someone break this down im not that familiar with COP http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2013/68594/SEGM007.html

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    Replies
    1. DW received level 3 for the midline step sequence and level 3 for both Finnstep key points; twizzles and lift level. The GOE and PCS are self-explanatory.

      VM received all level 4s at Quebec except for the midline step sequence, so their base value was higher than DW.

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    2. That should say twizzles and lift level 4, for DW.

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    3. OFC the twizzles are level 4 even though they've been doing the same twizzles for like 6 seasons(?) and we're out of sync in the second one

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    4. Them being level 4 is exactly why they will never change them, they don't want to bother learning a new element and risk not getting the level. Yup, hardest workers ever...

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  25. What the hell is that at 1:52 of the video? And I did not see a twizzle hop AT ALL

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    Replies
    1. The HELL. I...

      You're right that the hop is gone. Now, tell me how those twizzles are level 4.

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    2. What else is new? Sometimes they do it, sometimes they don't. Sometimes one of them gets air and the other just jerks their leg so the blade moves but doesn't lift off.

      I'm giffing this later along with lifts.

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