Thursday, November 7, 2013

Three years worth of lift

I was reading the "bookie" thread on fsu, where it was mentioned how it's fine if Virtue Moir take a GOE hit when something isn't executed perfectly, but other teams shouldn't get a pass. GOE should be applied fairly and it's not. DW get a bye.

And this was used as an example:

Just glorious.
Some might argue this is the preparation to the lift, not the lift. I would say that's the lift, that's the entrance. It's integral to how they get in. Once the drag is on, they're in the entrance. His dragging her past him and swinging her up creates her motion in space that is arrested when he turns himself under her facing the opposite direction.

And look at Charlie. Look at Meryl. On what planet is that proper form for anything? Her ass is practically on the ice; she's in a shoot the duck "pose" but not a real shoot the duck since obviously he's holding her up. Also her free leg is angled to the outside and her blade knee is angled the other way, so it's not even a shoot the duck pose. She'd be flat on her ass/back without him (even minus the fact that he's dragging, if you slowed them to a standstill she couldn't hold herself aligned like that) and he's just standing there like he's just dumped something on the ground.*

We can't run around being "Oh, that's not the element!" when it's how they enter the element, and then be all "oh it is the element!" when they approximate musical style by flinging an arm in the air after they're done with the twizzles (done with the element) and receive character of the music GOE because - close enough.

So let's back up and look at this beauty, since it's the flashy highlight of their free dance - three years in the making:





This is the part I mentioned last time - despite the counter movement
entrance, he has to kind of get his shoulder under to nudge 

her into position. The counter-movement by itself doesn't get
her into position - they get a little stuck. It's just a small instant.
They plan for it though. They've incorporated the stuck part.
Is that okay then? They're alright with it, they've decided it's a thing,
so the judges go along?

All that so she can be belly flopped on his upper right
shoulder with her legs totally splayed behind her.
Where's the "add on execution points!" value in a belly
flop. People can do that with inaminate objects.
Try it. Swing something up using counter movement
so it plops face down on your back with its legs
hanging any way they please. You can do it

Use a stuffed animal or something. This part of
the lift can be done with just the lifter; the liftee doesn't
eve
n have to be alive. So GOE the fuck out of it.
Naturally. Welcome to ice dance in the era of
Davis & White
.

This must be one of those ways they're raising the standard. Who the fuck cares what legs look like in transition? What does it matter? Why bother?


As always, Charlie has to get her leg position for her.



What would happen if he let go of her leg - would her hip joints make it spring back up and flip her head over heels onto the ice the other way?

Again, who cares. It's a transition. So what! GOE it! (Look at Charlie now giving her butt a little shove to help her along. Seriously with her.)


She's gonna brace her knee against his thigh and


Two armed grip. You realize nothing about Meryl here is balanced or carried. She's not on a balance point. She's literally being held up in a brace.


My favorite part is how she keeps that Persian arm going. Never mind anything else. That arm is waving from the rubble like a white flag. That's where the GOE rests.


There's the arm. You'd think this was an arm contest - like she's holding something in her hand the way you do at fairs and stuff - don't drop the egg off the spoon!  Don't drop the baton! Or some other sport. Fumble recovery! I have the ball!



 Can't wait, Eurosport boys. Tell us how spectacular this is.
___________________________
*Their fans keep saying Meryl's light and airy but the way Charlie's shoulders slump and he braces himself, his body says she weights a ton.

59 comments:

  1. "There's the arm. You'd think this was an arm contest - like she's holding something in her hand the way you do at fairs and stuff - don't drop the egg off the spoon! Don't drop the baton! Or some other sport. Fumble recovery! I have the ball!"

    Cut her some slack! The arm aloft is all she's got in that moment. Excessive celebration results in a fifteen yard personal foul penalty.

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  2. "Try it. Swing something up using counter movement
    so it plops face down on your back with its legs
    hanging any way they please. You can do it
    Use a stuffed animal or something. This part of
    the lift can be done with just the lifter; the liftee doesn't
    even have to be alive. So GOE the fuck out of it.
    Naturally."
    Oh my goodness I can't stop laughing out loud. Oh. right. This is the technique which is outscoring everyone else. Disgusting.

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  3. The Eurosport guys will tell us that lift is spectacular because Charlie looks great in his tuxedo. Tanith Belbin will tell us it's spectacular because Meryl and Charlie are connected at their souls and they work really hard each week. Scott Hamilton will scream at the top of his lungs that the lift is spectacular because Meryl and Charlie are American skaters. +3 GOEs all around.

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  4. Why, how does she just ~FLOAT~ onto his back like that?

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    1. Better yet, use a small child. They'll enjoy being flung into the air onto your shoulder and you'll prove you're gold medal-worthy. It's a win-win for you both.

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    2. She's not on his back, her pelvis is splat on his shoulder. Then she drapes across his neck like a boa, but he has to press her leg down because she can't hold the position.

      1. Read about tension, resistance, release and momentum
      2. Take a back pack, swing it past you and flip it onto your back in counter movement. +3 for the back pack. Conclusion: If your purse can do it, odds are it's not that fabulous.

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    3. 6:53 - I edited (which means, deleted, edited, reposted) as you were posting, so now my remark is underneath yours - sorry.

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    4. "Conclusion: If your purse can do it, odds are it's not that fabulous."

      I'm not sure I agree with this. I mean, what kind of purse are we talking about? Because, if the purse is fabulous to begin with...

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    5. excuse u my balenciaga is fabulous.

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  5. Dear God in Heaven, give me strength:

    "Okay, here's my question. If D/W are having such issues and aren't following the rules, why wouldn't their coaches correct this? I mean, they've got the same coaches as V/M so it's not as though such things couldn't be seen especially as they train together. And the judges and coaches are almost always talking to each other so you know someone would have had to have brought it up. Or USFS officials? They know the rule book and if, during Champs Camp for example, these errors were so blatant, why not tell them? D/W are hard workers and I don't doubt would be specifically focusing on improving aspects that were pointed out, just as I'm sure V/M would do the same if their coaches or Canadian officials had problems with one or both programs."

    Um, gosh, why wouldn't they correct this, hmm, oh, the answer is right on the tip of my tongue.... oh yes! They can't skate like Tessa and Scott! Of course!

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    1. Anon at 6:49 pm - I am not on FSU - but the way I would respond would be - when in the last quad has DW been penalized in any way by the judges to merit a change in their skating skills. Then add the fact of the recycled lifts and twizzles over the years..and you ask why would the coach not correct this...hmmm..if the judges don't ding you - why would you change? Theoretically - as world champions DW should be pushing the sport - nothing could be farther from the truth...their fans cannot be happy with the free dances over the last couple of years...and really - they need to lay off the Bollywood masterpiece - that was 4 years ago...and they have had no injuries...their skating hasn't improved....

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    2. Such knowledge on display over there. They should probably stick to talking about non-skating things like hair color if they want to avoid coming across as idiots, like that one guy who claims he's an ice dance judge but can't really explain how the Finnstep is scored. Instead he just regurgitates the numbers listed on the protocols. "Oh, it was scored this way because it was scored this way!"

      Speaking of hair color though, I LOVED Tessa's red hair.

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    3. As did I. I thought it was great with her skin tone and looked wonderful on the ice.

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    4. Anon at 7:22 pm and OC. In terms of hair colour, I agree that her natural colour does suit her. I am wondering if one of the main reasons for the change in colour, was due to the Flamenco OD they had in 2009-2010. The darker hair makes Tessa look older and perhaps with the Tango Romantica and Flamenco OD - they thought the dark hair would be more appropriate. But yeah I always get a kick when I revisit their Assasination tango OD - Tessa's hair saying - I'm fierce and I am fire and Scott's contrasting macho geled dark hair. But if Tessa is happy with her dark hair - I am good with that - she is still gorgeous either way.

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    5. This red was awesome.

      http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x165/Brofis/Tessa%20and%20Scott/001c28zf.jpg

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    6. "like that one guy who claims he's an ice dance judge but can't really explain how the Finnstep is scored. Instead he just regurgitates the numbers listed on the protocols. "Oh, it was scored this way because it was scored this way!"

      It's frightening. This person could very well end up judging at 4CC eventually and they get confused on the key points for the Finnstep. It's not like this is top secret information or difficult to understand.

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    7. This post? http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?88157-Pechalat-Bourzat-move-to-Shpilband&p=4040941&viewfull=1#post4040941

      This person used to post that VM were the superior ice dancers, but then after an ISU seminar said that he/she now understood why DW were better because it was explained there. Scary.

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    8. Yes, that one.

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    9. that isu seminar sounds pretty shady

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  6. "We can't run around being 'Oh, that's not the element!' when it's how they enter the element, and then be all 'oh it is the element!' when they approximate musical style by flinging an arm in the air after they're done with the twizzles (done with the element) and get GOE for character of the music in the twizzles because - close enough."

    Bingo.

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  7. Those positions are just hideous. I'm wondering if capturing screen shots of any other team would demonstrate such awkwardness.

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    1. Seriously. And I don't want to sound prudish, but Meryl's crotch is on full display. Isn't the whole reason that Carmen was considered a "vulgar" dance was apparently because of all of Tessa's "crotch shots"?

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    2. Not really. Mostly it was considered a vulgar dance because people who don't like V/M needed to find something to complain about and Rosie DiManno felt compelled to tell everyone the program left her hot and bothered, which left me in desperate need of brain bleach to erase that image from my consciousness.

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    3. Exactly. It was never considered a vulgar dance - some people just pretended to consider it vulgar so they could divert discussion from the slam dunk best-in-the-world ice dancing and figure skating on display to focus on things they could use to bash VM.

      I must have missed - or forgotten, and either is fine with me - Rosie getting hot and bothered over Carmen. I remember her getting into a state over Robin Szolkowy's pants, almost as if she felt he shouldn't be allowed to wear them because it was unfair. Her tone kind of had a "those pants shouldn't write a check Robin isn't going to cash" thing going on. That was plenty for me from Rosie in that department last season.

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    4. Going back and looking at her early articles again, I suppose she said it more indirectly than directly. Though she certainly did make sure to include the words/phrases "Scott & Tessa erotica," "X-rated," "figure skating for grownups," sssssteaming hot," "overtly sensual," "exhibitionistic," "hubba hubba," "nether regions," "sinuous slither," "flamboyant," "voluptuous," and talked about fingers running up thighs and executing lower body moves normally seen done a stripper pole.

      Somewhere, E.L. James was applauding.

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    5. "Her tone kind of had a 'those pants shouldn't write a check Robin isn't going to cash' thing going on."

      Oh dear Lord. Run, Robin. Run.

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    6. 7:56, geez, imagine if she'd been direct!

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    7. I figure it pretty much boils down to this: if you're being turned on BY AN ICE DANCE PROGRAM this is probably a sign of larger issues that need to be explored...but not in a Toronto Star post-competition wrap-up, ROSIE.

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  8. Haha, I love how educating oneself and posting well-informed analysis is equated with being out to get DW, having too much time on one's hands, and not loving and cherishing the sport appropriately. Take a look at these gems from the bookie thread:

    mia joy:
    "I also don't understand why they analyze D/W so much. I mean, to the extent of using videos and photos?? D/W thread barely mentiones V/M. The other thread finds its ultimate joy in analyzing D/W's programs and pointing out their weaknesses. I just don't get it."

    tapdancer:
    "Figure skating is a cherished part of my life but I honestly don't have the time to overanalyze like many of you do. Some of us just love to watch skating and have our faves. "

    They obviously don't want people to really discuss the skating and scoring because they know that DW will be exposed as overmarked and held up. They know that a lot of the VM fans at FSU know their stuff and are perfectly capable of showing how most of DW's scores and victories against VM do not make sense even under the current rules. So the strategy is to try to steer them away from doing so by implying how mean or pedantic they are if they do. I thought this was supposed to be a sport? When fans of other sports bother to learn the rules and discuss what went down in terms of the rules, are they seen as over-scrupulous?

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  9. It's a double standard through and through, from the skating to the fandom. It's OK to make all kinds of accusations towards the VM thread posters, and completely ignore the astute analysis. Even blaming the fandom for depriving them of enjoying VM's skating. In addition the DW users make insidious comments in other threads mocking VM such as in the hair colour one.

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    1. So I take it they know longer think VM fans should just acknowledge DW are now as good?

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    2. Apparently our uberness is blinding us from seeing that VM have regressed and DW have overtaken them:

      From dansk8ie:

      "First and last post!
      Have some of these people seen Virtue Moir skate lately? They are clearly not the team they used to be in 2010. There is a lot amiss. It is getting quite easy to see their flaws as more time goes by. It was really conspicuous in the Carmen at World's. It started creeping in right after they came back from that break in 2011. Davis and White surpassed them in many aspects of skating. And then Shpilband left. Making twizzle errors, issues with step sequences, issues with lifts, spins. I've even seen some ubers say that the slow spins were choreographed by Virtue and Moir to demonstrate how tender he was being to her. If you don't want to see all this, go back and live in your happy world. In order to be ahead, you have to perform the entire program and just because one lift was great or if they got the twizzles right one time, it is not going to be enough to give them the lead. And yes, this is a sport, if it was art you would be watching exhibition programs all day where they can remove all the elements that give them trouble. At the end of the day, the uberness is getting in the way of acknowledging that Davis and White are a superior team.
      Watching and comparing snippets of videos and screenshots all day do nothing to help any argument, where the credential-less people involved are extremely biased and blinded by their own self-certified greatness. Bullying everyone into getting the response you want is not going to change reality!"

      Wow.

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    3. 4:13 here, the point I'm trying to make is that according to DW fans, the VM fans (no matter how tactfully and objectively they try to present why they question the scoring, with photo and video evidence), are called bullies, living in their own happy world, making unfounded accusations, citing politics as an excuse, etc. DW fans are even worse in their tactics, they can't/won't explain in any objective manner why they believe DW are superior (oh, right the judges say so, so it must be correct), and take cheap shots at VM in other threads as well. Just like the double standard judging which allows DW to get away with crap and obliges VM to be perfect.

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    4. just look at the protocols for D/W FD @ WTT especially the PCS. if that doesn't scream politicking, i dont know what does. and i dont understand how a FD with so much two-footed skating, lack of holds, skating with bad postures, skating far apart etc. can get so much PCS. its like the us fed were scared that V/M would surpass D/W in TES that the judges decided to inflate their PCS. but i guess DF won because FF was 'boring' and the music 'sucked'. judging by that logic, vm should automatically pass d/w in the sd this year because "i could've danced all niiiiiiiight" makes my ears fucking bleed.

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  10. Is it just me? I seem to find almost all DW's still photo shots of lifts or certain "wow" positions of their competitions looks undeniable...awkward... in comparison to VM's. Seriously, even VM's so called crotch last season looks more refined than what I can see from above. *lol*

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    1. Exactly, I know that VM really never strike an ugly position, but I wonder if one were to break down other teams lifts into successive screan shots, would they look equally awkward as DW? It would be telling if it is primarily a DW phenomenon. And respond to the critics who claim that DW are being micro analyzed. Put other teams under the same microscope and see what happens.

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    2. Ugly positions in themselves aren't a fault. There are skaters with gorgeous positions who aren't terribly secure on their feet. An ugly move gets closer to the problem, if we look at why a move is ugly. It's not aethetics. It's usually inefficiency.

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    3. I suspect that if one took successive screen shots of most of the top 10 teams, they would not demonstrate anywhere near the lack of efficiency in the discount purse slingshot lift of DW, or any of the other examples presented.

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    4. When I was re-watching the twizzle comparisons, I saw how many skaters attempted to vary their twizzles in the pass itself. D/W's idea of a variation is to open their arms if they're doing ballroom, and that's it. Nothing else. When they finish their Scher twizzles - finish them - they hit a "Persian" pose. I imagine that just gets grandfathered into the element itself because it works like that with them.

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  11. Thank you for confirming my initial suspicions. Many of the VM posters from FSU are on here contributing to the utter insanity that is the Tessa/Scott conspiracy and the DW "criticisms." Now you're calling out specific FSU users.


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    1. 12:53
      "The" Tessa/Scott conspiracy? What are you talking about?

      Do you really think a person's opinion on certain things pertaining to Tessa/Scott's relationship status automatically disqualifies him/her from having any logical and intelligent opinions about the skating?

      Nice try in another attempt at bullying those who are criticizing DW's skating. You go ahead and provide objective evidence why DW are better skaters. That's the issue, not the main premise of this place.

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    2. It's not just insanity but "utter" insanity? Then it must be simple to demonstrate how insane they are.

      Is it one of these?

      1. The mere fact of criticizing/analyzing ice dance proves insanity
      2. You're going to provide your own evidence that DW are better than VM and merit their wins and higher scores, right?

      My favorite part of all the DW insanity is their insistence that looking at the skating ITSELF is crazy! Don't tell me to look at video clips and screen caps to determine who is better!

      What do you think the judges are looking at then? DW fans are like cornered rats. They are screaming bloody murder at the thought that fans might look at the actual skating. That's so not fair. Look at the scores to decide if the scores are fair! That's how it's done in - NO other sports.

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    3. All of those posts on FSU are...public posts. If people don't want them their thoughts discussed there or elsewhere, they shouldn't post them on a public board.

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    4. The fact that some people on fsu appear to post here or vice versa just demonstrates how small the internet fandom is, which makes Scott and Tessa's internet antics and the garbage they've left on the web look even more unnecessary and horrible.

      And, while I don't always agree with the fsu discussions, there are people there who have obviously done a lot of work and are smart enough to actually understand the sport they're a fan of, which apparently DW fans find suspicious and wrong. That cross-over is going to continue where I think it's helpful, because I'm going to post Meryl Davies' key point in her SA Finn Step later - in slow mo.

      I know, how UNFAIR.

      As it happens, Tessa Virtue missed a key point (showing a clear forward outside edge) at Skate Canada, so VM's Finnstep got Level 3. Meryl Davies very obviously missed the same key point at Skate America, the judges didn't let that deter them from awarding a Level 4 to their Finnstep.

      Clearly "calls for review" only apply when Virtue and Moir skate, but not when Davis White skate, because they get away with murder in that Finnstep, not only on Meryl's missed key point but on their short, choppy steps that are barely synchronized with one another's. Short meaning they aren't moving freely, with the full use of their bodies. Their steps are tight. Someone else mentioned before that one reason Davis White can give the impression of control (even though if you look at their blades there's all kinds of nonsense going on) is they're tight. The Finnstep hightlights that.

      I also really want to know what's going on with Meryl Davies's abs and hips. She clearly doesn't expand or lift her core. But the thing with her legs, how Charlie has to hold her extension for her and press the leg down is super strange. What's with her hips or her hamstrings? She needs resistence to hold her leg straight in space. She's even held her OWN leg - pressing down on it in a lift exit. It seems to me that an ice dancer should easily be able to control the basic extension required to extend your legs across your partner's shoulder when that's where your lying, but Charlie not only has to pin her leg in place, he also pressed down on it when she transitions to her position in front of him.

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    5. Apparently the screen caps and clips prove nothing:

      The pics and videos do not actually prove anything. The pics would need to be side-by-side views of D/W & V/M performing the exact same move, and show where each of their edges are, where each of their body positions are, and what the score was for the same move. Otherwise it's just apples to oranges (preference) and does not help to win anyone over. Posting a picture of Meryl making a weird face mid-move does not prove anything, either.

      http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?89565-If-you-were-a-bookie-who-would-you-make-favourite-for-the-Ice-Dance-Olympic-gold&p=4044363&viewfull=1#post4044363

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    6. Actually it's not apples to oranges (preference) - it's content to content. If you've read the criqitique at all Meryl's face has never been the point. The fact that there's less skating in DW's programs, that their programs are less difficult, IS the point.

      And then we get to the double standard where when two teams execute the same pattern and make a key point mistake, the key point mistake drops one team's level to 3 and the other level stays 4.

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    7. I like how "criticisms" is in quotation marks, haha. As though breaking down a teams' skating and analyzing it within IJS rules/standards is unfair "criticism."

      Some people have been "criticizing" Davis and White's skating for years. Yet, it's only become terribly offensive to some of their fans as of late. I guess in a subjective sport with a history of political tampering, it's only acceptable to "criticize" the skating of other skaters/teams that are not named Meryl Davis and Charlie White. Any "criticism" of them is on account of jealousy, only. Not because anyone with two eyes in their head can see that Davis and White won their first world championship with a program that had to be simplified over the course of the season because they couldn't hold positions or do advanced footwork that Virtue and Moir could do in their sleep, or that they won their second championship with an SD and FD full of toe picked hops, two footed skating, open holds transitioning to a lot of two footed posing, posing, posing, and elements lacking the technical difficulty and efficiency of those performed by not only Virtue Moir, but other lesser teams.

      Cry foul all you want. But until you can break down *why* Davis and White's skating is superior to everyone elses, your complaints come across as nothing but the whining of people suffering from massive inferiority complexes who are terrified that the tiniest bit of criticism may blow down their house of cards.

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    8. "Actually it's not apples to oranges (preference) - it's content to content. If you've read the criqitique at all Meryl's face has never been the point."

      I'm gonna stop you there, OC. They haven't read the critiques. If they had, they'd know you've always been discussing content, and that when breaking down that content within the standards laid out in the IJS rules, it is not "apples to oranges" (a favorite excuse of D/W's defenders, I've noticed). Look at the post a few pages down. There is plenty of evidence in those caps that V/M's edges are deeper on account of better knee action and ankle flexion, their alignment straighter, and their bladework sharper, than D/W's. A trip over to the videos will provide a more extensive look. Are those fans going to do that? Probably not. If they do, they'll probably just chalk it up to "apples to oranges."

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    9. OC 2:17. I like the skating discussions and don't want to derail from that too much. But your comment about how small the internet fandom really is, and how unnecessary all of VM's social media antics have been, makes me wonder (again) about their motives in agreeing to do a trashy reality show about their fake public personas. It could be they did realize how small the audience is for their social media antics. The TV series will guarantee *everyone* is forced-fed their b.s. They weren't satisfied with their small internet fan-audience, they wanted the biggest audience possible.

      I hope their expectations fall flat. That even after their exhibitionistic series people would know they're hoaxing the public.

      Delete
    10. "The pics would need to be side-by-side views of D/W & V/M performing the exact same move, and show where each of their edges are, where each of their body positions are, and what the score was for the same move."

      I sure hope someone takes them up on that!

      Delete
    11. 2:38 - some DW fans who protest the critique by VM fans seem to believe that "apples and oranges" can't be compared. By "apples and oranges", they, based on the poster above, seem to believe choreographic layout, not skating technique, and that skating skills can't be compared team to team if the choreography is different. It has to be the exact same move.

      Seriously. Really? How on earth are the winners determined in a competition if they can't be compared without skating the same choreography? How does the sport know Yuna Kim is better than Amelie Lacoste? Why doesn't figure skating issue a set piece of choreography/elements each season, one each for ladies, men, pairs and dance. Have them do the exact same thing, then determine the winner.

      It's not apples to oranges. It's apples to apples. It's skating skills to skating skills and if people saying this knew anything ABOUT skating skills they'd know choreography reveals skating skills and good skating all looks the same. STYLE is different. Good skating is the same, team to team, skater to skater.

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    12. Indeed...and don't all the teams have to do the Finnstep this year? Is that "apples and apples" enough for these people?

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    13. "Thank you for confirming my initial suspicions. Many of the VM posters from FSU are on here contributing to the utter insanity that is the Tessa/Scott conspiracy and the DW "criticisms." Now you're calling out specific FSU users."

      Actually, I follow FSU but I wouldn't dare post there because of scary people like Cyn and mia joy. I have no opinion on VM's personal lives, but I certainly have strong opinions about the skating and the results and I feel more comfortable posting those opinions here.

      And like another poster said, these people are posting on PUBLIC message boards. That means that the content of their posts is available for all those on the internet to read and critique, whether they do so on FSU or elsewhere. They are making asses of themselves by resorting to childish tactics like name calling instead of actually responding to the thoughtful analyses posted with thoughtful analyses of their own.

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    14. 4:42 - even when a screencap shows Meryl on the wrong edge and Tessa doing the same thing but DW get level 4 and VM level 3 - that's STILL not apples to apples enough!

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    15. Someone should just screencap every second of every compulsory both teams have ever done. Oh wait - they admit VM could skate in Vancouver. They just "haven't been the same."

      So the pattern dances for 2011-14, then, and too bad there's not camera software that could track who has the bigger pattern (more speed - although I'm sure the DW ubers wouldn't understand that - after all, the commentators say DW have the most speed and the judges give them the winning scores, so they must be the fastest).

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    16. "Actually, I follow FSU but I wouldn't dare post there because of scary people like Cyn and mia joy. I have no opinion on VM's personal lives, but I certainly have strong opinions about the skating and the results and I feel more comfortable posting those opinions here.

      And like another poster said, these people are posting on PUBLIC message boards. That means that the content of their posts is available for all those on the internet to read and critique, whether they do so on FSU or elsewhere. They are making asses of themselves by resorting to childish tactics like name calling instead of actually responding to the thoughtful analyses posted with thoughtful analyses of their own".

      I agree 100%. Scary crazies like Cyn, mia joy, iNap (pretty much all the irrational D/W ubers) resort to attacks on V/m and their fans that completely deflect from their skating. Nothing constructive is being said from them, ever.

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  12. Dear OC, I came across this FAQ list compilation that I thought you might find interesting: http://www.eijkhout.net/lead_follow/index.html

    It's kind of old (late 1990s), and the members of the newsgroup seem to be (from my first impression) recreational social dancers, but dance teachers are quoted/cited throughout the different sections.

    I particularly enjoyed section 1.6 "On The Way Dancing Is (mis)taught": http://www.eijkhout.net/lead_follow/teaching_misteaching.html I loved this pearl of wisdom: "You are responsible for your own balance -- don't rely on your partner to keep you from falling over." Also: "What some people like to marginalize as "styling" - posture, balance, weight change, appropriate force, basic timing and footwork, dancing with the music and with your partner ... these are the *essentials* of dancing." I thought a lot of the things said on the page echoed the discussions here about ice dance.

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    1. :) Thanks! I used to read the Sandra Loosemore site (frogsonice) and its archives emphasizing that these things are another aspect of technique, and in fact, done properly, from the blades up, display superior technique.

      When I would watch Dancing with the Stars (which I don't all the time), and a "style" or "form" issue would come up, such as what appears to be the extremely stylized particulars of the hold in a quickstep, and you do some basic research, there are very good reasons the hold is the way it is, all facilitating what the feet are meant to do in quickstep - all about the dance itself. It's not a "flourish" imposed on top of the dance.

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  13. I wanted to take a look at D/W's recent Skate America to see why their scores have jumped so much higher than last year, and why there was no drop off after Worlds this year. Here are the first two in a series examining that (companion V/M pieces will follow):

    http://youtu.be/-dExtJfEfOI
    http://youtu.be/KXT04YRebr0

    Oh, and we were SO wrong about the twizzles. They once tried a you-can-actually-see-it connecting gesture, and, well...it was short lived, to say the least.
    http://youtu.be/KXT04YRebr0?t=7m53s

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