Worlds is up next week, and with it, the last non-Virtue and Moir season until the Olympics. I haven't watched Vritue and Moir's competitive programs in a long time, because when I watch them skate, the anger over the travesty of their 2012-2013/2013-2014 season has just intensified, instead of dissipated with time. The more one looks back, the worse it becomes.
Not long ago, reading one of the skating boards, one of the geniuses over there mentioned how VM's "Carmen" is no longer that impressive two years out, demonstrating again that the most skating-ignorant fans are found on skating forums.
I'm second to none in my adoration of the Shibutanis. Everyone recognizes that their Coldplay free dance is, finally, their career maker*, and I'm rooting madly for them to win Worlds. Yet, put it up against Carmen - not the PROGRAM - the skating - and Virtue and Moir remain in a different universe. Look at what won Worlds last year, and ice dance is farcical. Like everyone else, I hope the powers that be have signaled to Virtue and Moir that they're welcome back and will not get ratfucked this time around. The idea of listening to Tanith Belbin explaining how Virtue and Moir's short program is not quite clicking, while Papadakis and Cizeron have once again found the magic formula will finish me off. Her insufferable inanities during the Shibutanis winning skate at U.S. Nationals prompted at least three fans to create no-commentary videos on youtube, and that's with a team she praised.
Here is Carmen from the 2013 Canadian Championships - and remember how it was scored by their own judges:
Shibutanis, 2016 National Championships (Tanith-free).
and finally, the World Championship gold-medal awarded skate of 2015:
*The Shibs have been the best pretty much since 2014, but Fix You was the program that, I believe, made it evident to the public, got them excited, and pissed them off when it was underscored. Carmen was the same way, but there's not the same massive machine promoting any of the Shibutanis' competitors that promoted Davis and White, making fans think maybe they're missing something or ice dance is too nuanced for anyone but judges to understand.
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ReplyDelete*The Shibs have been the best pretty much since 2014, but Fix You was the program that, I believe, made it evident to the public, got them excited, and pissed them off when it was underscored. Carmen was the same way, but there's not the same massive machine promoting any of the Shibutanis' competitors that promoted Davis and White, making fans think maybe they're missing something or ice dance is too nuanced for anyone but judges to understand."
It was both pathetic and hilarious to hear the commentators (and dumbass posters on FSU and Goldenskate) praise V/M and the Shibs' skating skills, and can't say the same of their competitors, yet their programs weren't "magical/meaningful/passionate/bullshit adjective" enough, or in the case of the dumbass FSU/GSers, "sabotaged" by Marina.
If P/C "win" again this year, that will be just as bad as D/W "winning" in Sochi. Gah.
I'm still in shock the Shibs were allowed to win anything at all. Weren't Chock/Bates the designated US darlings?
ReplyDeleteThe results at Worlds might be a good indication of the way things will be played out in the next couple seasons. If the scoring is anywhere near fair, the Shibs should win. Chock/Bates and Gilles/Poirier shouldn't be in the top 5 at all.
IMO Weaver/Poje aren't that fabulous either. A lot of their success is because they're Canada's #1 team, not due to their skating.
Add P/C on the mix of teams that shouldn't be in the top 5, or even top 10.
ReplyDeleteIf there was any ounce of legitimacy in the judging, the podium should be Shibs, Paul/Islam and Hubbell/Donahue. But of course, PI were fucked by Skate Canada, and HB will not be allowed to place above CB.
Agreed. There was discussion a couple posts down about what teams are the best currently competing, and I think it's inaccurate to put H/D as next in line to the Shibs without also including P/I. It of course depends on what group is being discussed in the first place - H/D are certainly more in the realistic medal mix right now than P/I are, and P/I are obviously irrelevant to a discussion of the US national scene. But if we're talking what teams display the most talent (after the Shibs, and V/M obviously are on a different planet) regardless of where they're currently ranking or how they're being packaged, it's H/D and P/I. Neither has the complete package that the Shibs have, I see the teams as two sides of the same coin. Both need something that the Shibs have, and OC already noted what those things are during that discussion. P/I have lovely pure glide and elegance to everything they do, but they need physical boldness added to their skating to get to the next level. H/D need refinement, to channel the energy they bring to the ice more efficiently which can increase their speed, as well as control and fluidity of movement. For every time that P/I have faltered and withdrawn into themselves, there's a time where H/D pushed too hard and either fell or became wild and sloppy. P/I are capable of doing very intricate things in a quiet way, and I think that has led to them being underappreciated by those who get irritated at their lack of confidence. Their packaging this season has done them no favours at all, but I don't see H/D currently showing what they're capable of this season in a more significant way than P/I were doing before their season got cut short.
DeleteI would have put W/P in this same tier below the Shibs until recently, because even though Kaitlyn isn't as naturally talented, as a team they seemed to be able to reach a similar level of competency through sheer will power. But I have to agree that their weaknesses are quite visible this year, as much as I like them, they seem to be increasingly fighting with their choreography. They still are, however, much stronger and skating more difficult material than P/C, G/P and C/B, and I don't have a problem seeing them on the podium.
H/B have more natural skill as a team than W/P do, are similar to P/I in being able to do throw-away intricacy, and simply need time to smooth some things out. The transitions in their FD this year are insanely good. What's scary about them not making the Worlds team is that it wasn't just for C/B's sake, they also finished behind C/M and are now probably in danger of being passed by M/C when they move up to senior. I'm baffled why this is necessary. Maybe DSC really are being punished for no obvious reason.
C/L (difficulty and many other strengths to compensate for less than perfect edges), various Russian teams (excellent blades even if the rest is messy), FB/S (another team I'd like to see away from Gadbois) all are more legit than P/C and should be placing ahead of them IMO. So yeah, especially if the correct teams were sent to Worlds in the first place, that should make top 10 hard to hold onto for P/C.
^^make that Hubbell/Donahue will not be allowed to place above CB.
ReplyDeleteBut on the subject of Hawyak/Baker, they are another legit team screwed over by the USFSA's relentless pursuit of CB. CB are a junk team on par with Davis/White and shouldn't be anywhere near a podium, anywhere.
4:35
DeleteHD aren't given their due. An added element that's baffling is them engaging in a VM-style sham - or they think that's what they're doing. They only started their own brand of ridiculousness when it looked like they might be gaining favor with USFSA.
This is not the first time I question if the ice dance teams that reach a certain level (or are expected to reach a certain level) are being pressured to *not* be a real couple off-ice. I don't think HD are doing this for the sake of attention, the same way that after observing VM for many years I don't think they sham for personal attention. There are other factors involved we have no idea. Given the general pervasive corruption in the ISU, I wouldn't be at all surprised the origins have something to do with that corruption, not the athletes themselves.
In any case, it looks like HD began shamming at the right time to reach the podium at US Nationals. It remains to be seen if their shamming helps in being judged more fairly. I personally think not, but they do seem to think it's necessary to do this right before, and during, every competition this season. (Just like the previous VM patterns we knew so well.)
Interesting theory, Anon 7:27. Do you think PI are being punished for being an off-ice team?
Delete7:41
Delete7:27 here. It's certainly interesting to think about, is it not?
It's easy to say IP's lower scores are a result of their own issues, their little mess-ups here and there. But IP have great technique, beautiful lines, musicality. You'd think that would make up for other mistakes.
What's happening is that PI don't get any credit at all for their superior skating skills. Lesser teams, like GP and CB, are consistently scored above PI. Even WP have lesser technique than IP but you'd never know by the judging. Why is that? It's like DW vs VM. If VM made a little mistake on their twizzles, it was used to justify all-around lower scores compared to DW, who may not have made any obvious twizzle mistake but had overall sloppy skating. VM's excellent skating skills should have easily kept them ahead in spite of a twizzle misstep. I see the same dynamic when it comes to PI.
I don't know what the hell is going on regarding the ISU and ice dance teams dating/not dating. But I feel I'm seeing patterns and it reeks of blackmail and mafia-type control.
Was VM's reality show a desperate attempt to go all-out in showing the ISU they were following the directive to be portrayed as a non-couple off-ice? Were they given to understand that doing the show would result in so much favor it would give them the winning scores? I think it's worth considering a different filter when it comes to the shamming.
If the ISU is concerned about ice dance teams dating off-ice, then the ISU is more fucked up than I thought, and it's pretty fucked already.
DeleteThe ISU has to be the worst sport's governing body.
"If the ISU is concerned about ice dance teams dating off-ice, then the ISU is more fucked up than I thought, and it's pretty fucked already."
DeleteOh, I think there's no doubts the ISU is much more f**** than we can imagine. That is one reason why the idea they're the controlling factor in these shams is so believable.
Does anyone remember the icedance dramas of the 90's? Gossip everywhere of affairs and public fights between different teams. This stuff made it into mainstream media. The present PTB of the ISU (and the federations) were the up-and-coming future leaders and they saw all of that first hand. It's very possible their "solution" is the situation that exists right now.
Agree CB are a junk team. Like DW.
ReplyDeleteIf the judging were 100% legitimate, then assuming clean skates, Shibs would win and HD would be second this year. Even if Shibs win, the judging is still not going to be without issue. In agreement with 4:30, HD will not be allowed to place above CB. The highest they'll be allowed to finish is 5th, with them skating lights out and probably CL making an obvious mistake or two. Sixth seems more likely, but it could be seventh if SK are held up and given a bonus for being the top Russian team in the absence of BS. Before BS were out, it seemed like the predictions were for HD beating SK. Afterwards, they seemed to get swapped around. BS having to withdraw did not magically and suddenly make SK better than HD.
ReplyDeletelove this post OC! yes. totally. i think the difference is Tessa. NO other woman does what she does, enters lifts the way she does, skates with the power she does. Scott is amazing of course and noone is better than him on men's side but it's really in the woman that you see the power of a team bc she's what you look at in the lifts and the turns etc. and there isnt any female ice dancer who skates anywhere near her. to me carmen program has best lifts and spins and the seasons program has the best skating and transitions and circular step sequence
ReplyDeleteVM are truly in their own league. P/C too-just in a different way. Is it possible their twizzles are worse than Davis/White?!!! They're so sloppy.
ReplyDeleteI get angry when I look back too but now I start to wonder---can MD and Patch produce? I seriously have my doubts.
Md being Marie-France and Patrice
DeleteThis tells you all you need to know about how actual attempts at sham work: http://jezebel.com/fuck-jessica-lowndes-fuck-jon-lovitz-and-fuck-me-1767597486
ReplyDeletehttp://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/03/28/jon-lovitz-and-jessica-lowndes-do-not-care-31-year-age-gap-engaged/82338588/
This is an interesting one. The web media ran with it, and at one point, it was even a trending story on facebook.
I also worry that Marie-France/Patrice cannot do anything in marina's stratosphere and hope they get Marina to choreograph their routines. AND i have to say it, i think davis and white -their lifts at least- are better than Papadakis/Cizeron! I mean, WTF is that french team doing? pretty sure tessa and scott performed better lifts in the 05-06 season.
ReplyDeleteTessa and Scott have made their decision and it's Marie-France and Patrice not Marina. Get over it Marina ubers.
DeleteI'm sure Skate Canada made it a condition that VM train with Marie-France & Patrice.
DeleteMD&L are crap coaches and choreographers compared to Marina.
my God it s so ridiculous "STRATOSPHERE"....LOL so vulgar and kitsh "stratosphere"... since a long time Zoueva (and Shpielband)are the gravediggers of ice dance ....with them and all their teams no artistry no poetry no delicacy no connexion no emotion no soul no grace no class no elegance no style... just old fashioned and outdated skating style ....with overdose of acrobatic circus lift and ridiculous attitude or ugly contortions.. twizzles of fans without aesthetic research...desastrous musical choice...hackneyed and worn theme....kitsh suit...Zoueva (and Sphieland) arent real choreographer..she dont know what is harmony of music and move...she used partition score only to illustrate vaguely her FD...and US/CAN hysterical fans are so vulgar that love it...with only two FD for P/C smart MFD/PL/RH send Zoueva and her dusty FD to the Jurassic period of ice dance....
DeleteJust watched the Shibs program - WOW. I will be so pissed if they lose tomorrow. Here's hoping the home ice advantage helps them out because Fix You is an amazing program. Love the lifts and the twizzles in particular.
ReplyDeletefix you as all other S/S s FD is mechanical...boring as hell ....and so slooooooow....
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