Wednesday, October 9, 2013

Can you even tell them apart?




Notice the position Tessa's head, arms and back are in when Scott takes her leg and arrests her glide, and how it matches the head, arm and back position she's in when she's in the lift. And how completely extended is her body. I love when Scott extends his free leg forward to match her leg. Also, this is the opposite (meaning better) version of how Meryl and Charlie use a "pull". Meryl stops skating and Charlie's planted on two feet (actually planted - he braces himself and his butt juts) and he pulls her into him, then he flips her or hoists her up. Here, Tessa is sailing away from him on an edge, back arched, head up and chin up, arms up and extended, Scott arrests her motion and pulls her into him while he's in lift position. He's not planted, bracing himself, pulling her leg, and once she's in, he squats. He is in pliĆ© as he pulls her in. Everything here is seamless. There's no prep.

182 comments:

  1. I applaud your ability to see things that aren't there. Charlie and Scott look the same. How on earth can you say that Charlie's butt juts when he is facing the camera? Furthermore, Meryl and Charlie's lift has a more difficult entry since they are not doing crossovers into it. Why isn't that pointed out? I guess it doesn't suit your narrative of delusion.

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    1. Let me be clearer - I see I wasn't.

      I am comparing VM's lift to TWO of DW's lifts. One, the statue lift.

      Two, in Giselle, and in I believe other programs, Charlie pulls Meryl in towards him like a little red wagon. He plants his feet and his but juts out. He bends over, gets his arm across and around her, she clutches him, and flips hoists her up there. Neither are skating when this occurs. She's being pulled, he's got his feet apart and planted.

      So I apologize, my remarks were confusing, Charlie isn't "jutting his butt" with his feet planted in the lift shown. However, the fact that VM's statue lift is superior to DW's I'm sure you're able to see for yourself.

      The "pull" comparison was to the pull entrance of a DW lift not shown here, where Meryl faces Charlie, isn't skating, Charlie has he's feet planted, flexes his knees (which always juts out his butt), pulls her in, bends over, and etc.

      Here, Tessa is actually gliding on her own away from Scott when Scott, in plie', pulls her towards him, she steps onto his thigh and he re-orients towards her.

      The mistake was in comparing elements of VM's statue lift to both DW's statue lift shown here, and the mechanics DW use when Charlie pulls Meryl to him for another lift.

      That said, please elaborate on what is delusional about the narrative that DW are faking their skating and VM are far superior. Please point out where the great skating is happening in DW's programs, let alone ice dance.

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    2. "That said, please elaborate on what is delusional about the narrative that DW are faking their skating and VM are far superior. Please point out where the great skating is happening in DW's programs, let alone ice dance."

      Still no answer to your question. I'm shocked. SHOCKED, I SAY.

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    3. If you watch the gif of DW, there is a very clear one two three sort of progression to the lift that is so ugly and clunky

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    4. All of their lifts are clunky, they just fob it off as style or the steps as dynamic. The first lift in the FD is a drag and swing. What the hell does that say about the skating, especially since Meryl ends up splatted on her pelvis on his shoulder, as elementary a lift starting point as it gets.

      There are many many aspects of Meryl and Charlie's skating that in VM would be described as "glitches" and "small missteps" but because it's Meryl and Charlie it's just how they roll. If they do have an issue anywhere, be sure to blow up their scores so that any points taken away reduce their scores to merely monster size instead of astronomical.

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  2. OC, these aren't the lifts that people thought were similar. It's the choreo lift from Seasons and the choreo lift from Notre Dame.

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  3. K, totally off topic, but I was just watching the 2007&2008 Eurosport worlds broadcast and simon and chris are just falling off their chairs gushing about VM's speed. At 2008 both the CD argentine tango and the FD are their favourite programs of the competition and they make sure to tell you that the tv might not be doing their speed justice in the CD in particular. At the end of the CD the one commentator says he wishes he could brush up on the technical demands of the new system, but because he is a member of the media he is not allowed to do the training for the technical specialists, which is unfortunate because he says he wishes he could have that higher level of expertise to fully understand what the teams are doing out there. So in 2008 VM had more power and ice coverage and the more technically demanding programs than all of their older competitors....but somehow they are now below dw, despite the fact they have continued to improve each year.

    other wonderful quote: technically so good, so tidy

    I really enjoyed going back and seeing the dramatic jump in speed and presentation in the early senior years. A lot of it is due to physical maturation and experience, but the wonderful mastery of the blade is already there.

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    1. I think the commentators have always been appreciative of Virtue and Moir.

      Although I haven't watched it in awhile, I remember that Virtue and Moir's 2008 Worlds cd was and remains, objectively, the best cd of that competition, and yet they were third. When you look back, that's ridiculous.

      Is there no way for the media to be thoroughly briefed on the technical demands of the new system, as well as these briefings made available to the public, other than the often pain in the ass documents on the web?

      I understand a member of the media not having access to the training, although now that I think of it, an Olympic sport should have the sort of transparency that makes media sit-ins okay. Of course if the media sat in they might have questions about the ISU's conclusions re certain technical standards.

      The issue, as always, isn't even how well VM are doing, it's how DW are being scored. It's hard to appreciate commentators falling over VM when they likewise fall over DW.

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    2. In 2008 V/M were 2nd in the CD behind Delobel. It was in 2009 where they were 3rd, behind Domnina and Belbin (Schoenfelder wrote about it in his blog, he said V/M should have absolutely been first).

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    3. 10:20 am thanks, and of course we're both talking about the same cd (Tango), which is still a stunning outing.

      oc

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    4. there was obviously some politicking involved at 2008 worlds. if you look back at the protocols you can see only one judge gave v/m a relatively low score while the other judges scores were more or less the same.

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    5. Indeed...2008 was the year that Belbin/Agosto were annointed to win, but she fell in the CD and their OD and FDs were quite terrible.

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  4. So, this tweet was posted then fairly quickly edited from "another Olympic gold medal" to "another Olympic medal" a bit ago. I managed to make a screen capture though.

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=29dwkls&s=5#.UlcS4T-HbhA

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  5. He probably means they would usually have only one opportunity for a gold medal (individual event), and now they have an opportunity for another (team). It's like he already thinks the individual gold is guaranteed. He's not wrong.

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    1. It's not that he thinks that individual gold is guaranteed. It's that he *knows* that it's guaranteed. Pretty crappy of him to tweet it before the season has even really started! Way to rub it into someone's face. Of course, what do you expect from someone who believes a human rights issue is mere semantics?

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    2. I agree 4:36. I read the tweet as the fix is in and Charlie knows it's in.

      VM said back in the summer than anything less than gold would be a disappointment. I don't know why they're even bothering. If DW know the fix is in, the so do VM.

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    3. I'm curious about something from reading the DW thread on fsu - one, if Meryl and Charlie are reworking lifts, why didn't they get a tech call on them in SLC? If they DID, why the hell were their scores still gigantic? VM's tech calls drag them down to nearly below 100. I only had the time to peruse the thread but I got the impression they're re-doing lifts, and they may have had a deduction for one, and still pulled the scores they pulled. Does the ISU just hand the scores off to them anyway (if there's an element issue, well then, just pump the score up even more, so the score is still huge), unlike VM, whose scores actually drop?

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    4. As Charlie (or the USFSA) phrased the tweet, it's not easily read as the team event and the dance event. It's read as we have a gold medal and it's great to have the opportunity for another gold medal.

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    5. OC 6:09 -- As seen in that other interview where they were asked about Russia's anti-gay laws, it looks like Charlie is careless in blurting out stupidities without regard for how they sound. So yeah, I'd buy the idea he accidentally let slip the way he is *really* thinking.

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    6. https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/388482720172478464

      lmao ofc they "misheard"

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    7. its v. arrogant of charlie too assume they can just walk in the competition and win gold.

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    8. I hope all their arrogance blows up in their faces.

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    9. As it turns out, linked here:

      http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/id/9807761/usoc-adds-sexual-orientation-conduct-code

      Sexual orientation has been added to the USOC conduct code - discrimination explicitly prohibited.

      and this from USOC CEO Scott Blackmun:

      "The fact that we do not think it is our role to advocate for a change in the Russian law does not mean that we support the law, and we do not,"

      That seems like something Meryl and Charlie could have said without rocking the boat, but then they're only 26 and 27 years old - mere babies.

      It's interesting that on the one hand, they're too young, and too focused on training to have a POV on Russia and LGBT, but on the other hand, they've been inculcated in the nitty gritty no-hand-outs, up-from-nothing, tough streets of Detroit despite being born, raised, educated and hanging out one of the country's most affluent suburbs. I guess things filter or are blocked from their training zone somewhat selectively

      More quotes from the link:

      >>Meanwhile, he said the USOC has given the athletes freedom to express themselves in the lead-up to the Games "however they see fit."

      Blackmun pointed to last week's comments from skier Bode Miller, who said, "I think it's absolutely embarrassing that there's countries and there's people who are that intolerant and that ignorant," as an example of the USOC's tolerance of any opinion.<<<

      So Meryl and Charlie were speaking for themselves, not deferring to the USOC, unless in some way the USFSA is more controlling than the USOC (when, IMO, that's the one governing body that should be the opposite), and that doesn't seem to be the case, considering Ashely Wagner.






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    10. I think it's hysterical that you're basing this on a tweet that was typed out by USFSA, NOT Charlie White. I mean, have you guys actually heard the teleconference for yourselves? Cause I can't seem to find the link. Please share ;)

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    11. It's no less obnoxious whether the USFA or Charlie White wrote it.

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    12. There's an instagram of a hockey player skating with "gold medalist" Meryl Davis. My impression is World Champions are referred to as "World Champions" and "Gold medalist" implies Olympic gold. That's been the convention. She is a gold medalist at worlds, but that's not what is usually meant.

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    13. @Anonymous 4:45 PM. How is it obnoxious? Scott Moir has expressed similar sentiments about Sochi. Davis and White aren't going to be like "yeah, we're looking at another opportunity for an Olympic silver medal." Key word is opportunity. They want gold, just as much as as VM. Nothing is guaranteed.

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  6. "I'm curious about something from reading the DW thread on fsu - one, if Meryl and Charlie are reworking lifts, why didn't they get a tech call on them in SLC? If they DID, why the hell were their scores still gigantic? VM's tech calls drag them down to nearly below 100. I only had the time to peruse the thread but I got the impression they're re-doing lifts, and they may have had a deduction for one, and still pulled the scores they pulled. Does the ISU just hand the scores off to them anyway (if there's an element issue, well then, just pump the score up even more, so the score is still huge), unlike VM, whose scores actually drop?"

    If you're going to be worrying about judging all season, you're going to have a long season. D/W's scores for every competition have already been decided. At this point, they could miss an entire element and score sheet would still read that element as L4 +3 GOE. You think the ISU wants to risk some judges going rogue and judging what they see? Too much money at stake here. IOC fatcats need to keep living high off the hog of US media contracts, NBC needs to guarantee US butts on the couch during primetime to recoup the cost of the contracts, and US viewers don't like losers or ice dance. Only way everyone wins is to make sure the US wins team and individual ice dance gold. Luckily, figure skating is easy enough to rig to make the results go anyway the money needs it to go.

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    1. the only way americans can win gold is by paying for it or by whining. and if d/w lose prepare for another SLC scandal.

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    2. They are pre-emptively setting that up, starting with the reaction to VM's interruption at 4CCs. The GALL of the slant that VM stopped because it was their only chance at winning. They'd defeated DW in the short and were ahead at the point they interrupted. VM have been put in the dirty Russian category. Going back to the article about how VM stumbled in 2012, DW were frantic (the journalist meant to imply athletic and dynamic and no flaws) and yet VM won. They're already setting it up so if VM win ever over DW it's corrupt.

      When, of course, the opposite is the case.

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    3. Which is not to say, 4:45, that I really believe the ISU is making money off this very forced rivalry, or the confluence you describe is motivating the corruption in how DW are scored. DW have their partisans, but VM have many many fans in the US, and in fact, I believe are more popular overall.

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    4. Still, it's just amazing how the reason Patrick Chan is able to win despite glitches is the calibre of his skating in between his elements and into his elements, and it's CoP that permits that, but somehow VM's superior skating skills are thrown out the window (they should influence tech inasfar as levels of difficulty and GOE), they're judged only element to element.

      DW get auto-pcs, and amazingly, the level of difficulty of their elements matches VM's,despite the climbing, clutching, and non-skating entrances and exits. I've read complaints that it's a shame only elements matter, not everything in between. Well yes, but its' also a shame that superior elements (VM's lifts, twizzles, etc.) are rated lower than DW's. It's not as if DW have the most difficult elements but rudimentary skating in between. VM are better in every department.

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    5. "It's not as if DW have the most difficult elements but rudimentary skating in between. VM are better in every department."

      ^^this.

      And yet, DW get scored as if every single thing they do is better. I've been watching ice-dance for several decades and I thought I had seen it all as far as the cultural corruption of the ISU in icedance, but this one IMO is the worst I've ever seen.

      It's a scandal that DW have not improved anything one iota and in fact I think they're sloppier now than 6 years ago. But each season they're scored *as if* the same elements had improved - they have not.

      Meanwhile, VM who have improved in every single area and skate faster and with more power than ever are scored below DW's crappy skating.

      I hope this blows up in the face of the ISU.

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  7. Sorry for the off topic...http://web.stagram.com/p/565159203153449123_235080067
    Maybe a set for the reality ?

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  8. @10:57
    Thanksgiving weekend in Canada. Did someone say the documentary would be a pile of garbage? YUP

    One more important event where they will pretend they are not parents. Such wonderful moments to record for posterity where their daughter is erased from the record.

    These people are monsters.

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    1. Lol, looks like Connor Hilborn has deleted the picture. Anyone save it?

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    2. ITA, 12:43. These people are monsters. I'm sure the child is well-cared for physically, but this is emotional abuse. It may not fully come to fruition until she's older, but that doesn't change the fact that this abuse.

      What, we'll see Scott having Thanksgiving with the Hilborns, Tessa with her family, and where does that leave the child? Excluded from a holiday!

      Cruel, heartless, diabolical monsters. They don't deserve to have a child.

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    3. 12:58
      Not just excluded from a family holiday, she's also given the message that her parents gave more importance to protecting their own asses than publicly embracing their child in the security of the bond of the mommy-daddy love.

      I can't tell you how much respect I've lost for these people.

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    4. "Not just excluded from a family holiday, she's also given the message that her parents gave more importance to protecting their own asses than publicly embracing their child in the security of the bond of the mommy-daddy love."

      That is very sadly true. :(

      I was thinking about how VM have said that it was important to document this time in their lives. I think about how the internet has a long memory, and someday, the child is going to find that article. She'll see the documentary too, and see that she wasn't there and what's going on doesn't jive with what she was told life was like at that age. She won't have any real memories of her own of the time, so she won't know what was real and what wasn't. Then, there's this. Her parents have said that this is an important time, but by her deliberate exclusion, the message that comes across is that she wasn't important enough to her parents to be included. To take it one step further, it's an easy jump to "my parents didn't think I was important." How is that going to make her feel? The child is persona non grata in her own parents life.

      Only someone with a cruel, diabolical soul could do that to their own little, innocent, defenseless two-year-old. They're supposed to be protecting that child, not setting her up for a lifetime of emotional insecurity and therapy.

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    5. 12:49 -- Here you go.
      http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30jl2ef&s=5#.UlmsMFCkrfc

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    6. Yes, the child, but they are also HOAXING the public. It is months from there so-called retirement, where more and more it appears as if they're going to pretend until they die, and they are still proactively hoaxing. Thanksgiving, and post-Finlandia, Scott Moir, a married to Tessa father, is pretending, in a "reality show" to be a single guy spending Thanksgiving with his girlfriend's family in the days after Finlandia.

      If this isn't bait, they're upping the ante to legit media.

      These people are warped. That child is already screwed in some respects. She is going to skate, she's a Moir, that's all that matters, the end.

      This is a hoax. What exactly is the rationale - stretching it as far as any defender of Virtue and Moir on this cares to stretch it - what can possibly THIS? On what level are they even arguably in the right?

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    7. OR, 1:26, it will be explained that everything Mommy and daddy said and did in all of this was lies for very very good reasons. That will have to be one of the first lessons this kid learns, if there's a prayer of her not either being a thick skinned block of egregious insensitivity like many of her relatives, or she's not raised to be a boor, the options are that they excluded her, it was personal. Or that it was FOR her, and all of the lies and official record was FOR her, including the stuff prior to her birth. And it will be up to HER to make it okay. Her only option will be to process it and enable it. There is no way to not explain it, and none of the explanations mean anything. A lot of the explanations will contradict what Scott and Tessa actually do, and what their friends and family do. Which is promote their time in the public eye, seek out more time in the public eye, celebrate their time in the public eye. Scott and Tessa do that and they seek out more of it, even if seeking out more of it means piling on the lies. At the same time they will have to explain to this child that the public activities are not real, nor are they important - otherwise what justifies leaving her out?

      That's a lot to reconcile, but she's going to have to do it, and she's going to be a fucked up, immature personality in the process, because that's the only type of personality that can blow this off.

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    8. It also once again raises the question - are Scott and Tessa intentionally duping a production company, making fools of the production company? Or is this so called reality show knowingly presenting a hoax to the public, and it's okay because the audience is figure skating?

      I wonder if PJ still maintains this is Scott's private life.

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    9. There's no way to argue "This has nothing to do with you". to that child. That's cruel. It's one thing to compartmentalize, it's one thing to compartmentalize like THIS. Yes, everything we did in public to pretend you didn't exist has no bearing on our love for you and our commitment to the family. That actually reinforces her lack of importance. And it does have to do with her. The other part is watching her parents court the spotlight as assiduously as they court it this season - the bridal clothes shoot, this, sportsnet, and then possibly turn around and say that it doesn't matter. Then there's the family's self-promotion, and the self-promotion of these Londoners, and also saying the exclusion somehow makes her special. This manages to invert and fuck up two things - the child as her own person independent of the needs of her parents, AND it excludes her from what is obviously the most important experience of her parents' lives. She can't exist in a little bubble of her own independent of this, that's not how this plays out. You can't continually look for ways to pull the wool over people's eyes, above and beyond any possible necessity, and still maintain this is for any higher purpose.

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    10. And, we can be sure there are plenty of people in London and Ilderton who are part of that community and every bit as turned off and appalled as fans, and members of the media as well, and that will have a long shelf life.

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    11. I wonder the same about the production company.

      My question is also this: If they're hoaxing the production company, then it follows that the child has been shipped off to live somewhere else this season. Are they not even parenting the child right now? Is the sham and perpetuating this hoax more important than their child even being around?

      She's not a damned doll. She's a human being. In this moment, I think the best thing that could happen to that child is her be kidnapped and sold to a family who will properly love and respect her.

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    12. No, the production company isn't REALLY day in the life-ing. It's bullshit day in the life-ing. It's OBVIOUSLY (Hilborn House one of the exhibits) made for TV reality. Even an in-the-tanker like Ryan Pyette acknowledges shows like this have limited access. They make up reality for it, they don't HIDE reality because this show isn't filming real reality. There's a schedule, Scott and Tessa are, arguably "working" when the show is filming, including whatever fake real life they do, then they do their real lives.

      But, I think we have to consider that this sham isn't just what these people are doing, it's who they are. So the sham itself is more symptomatic than anything else. If the blog's speculation is correct and the sham is a byproduct of an already overbearing environment, the overbearing environment and the entitlements that go with it - the Moirs ARE the ISC, the Moirs ARE Ilderton, the Moirs pitch yet another story about the wonders of the Moirs, that's the environment this child grows up in, sham or not. IOW, she'll be raised to be one of them, think like them, rather than a victim of them, even though that itself is sort of making a victim of her, by raising her to see nothing wrong with this and why is everyone else making a big deal.

      Which is sometimes what I get from it around the edges. Oh ha ha, what's the big deal. Well if it weren't a big fucking deal, you would't be doing it to this big fucking extreme, would you?

      The components of this just don't fit together, and that's because they're self-cancelling and the contradictions are built in. We've seen the Moirs (and Scott, and Tessa) all the time call something out that they themselves are doing on a much higher scale, and apparently it either doesn't cross their minds or they see themselves as special circumstances.

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    13. Also, we can consider the possibility (bearing in mind Jessica Dube's multiple Moir xmases in one year) that this instagram photo, tagged "this morning" is not actually from "this morning". That would be classic sham.

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    14. And I do wonder if in some ways they think the fact that the child won't remember for herself means whatever they do now doesn't matter and the internet will be old stuff. It's really not going to be old stuff. We've seen how ignorant they are with all things internet, and we also see that didn't stop them from behaving on the internet like the 800 lbs. gorilla. They've got a lot of hubris.

      If they're like most Olympians, Sochi is their priority, first, last always. Olympians say a lot of other stuff, but that's surface. Nothing stands between them and their focus on the Olympics. One does wonder why they bothered having a child after Vancouver, unless the child was their celebratory book end of a season - marriage - Olympic gold - baby - a little trophy. They can devote time to the bigger picture when it comes to her after Sochi, which may or may not (and it certainly looks like NOT) mean admitting she actually exists.

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    15. "One does wonder why they bothered having a child after Vancouver, unless the child was their celebratory book end of a season - marriage - Olympic gold - baby - a little trophy. "

      OC, I'm only bringing this up because it seems like you've puzzled over this several times as of late. Are you certain that they planned to have that baby when they did? I remember the article from either during or right after Vancouver or maybe during Worlds in 2010 where Scott said they had some other big plans. For Tessa to turn up pregnant after that definitely makes it seem like that was the big plan. That's definitely what I leaned towards at first. However, there are two videos from winter/spring 2011 that I later came across that, together, made me rethink that a bit and consider if perhaps the child was unplanned.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uiev4sMaI38

      This first one is of a segment on VM that was included in a one-year-post-Vancouver anniversary special that aired in February 2011. At 3:14 Tessa says this: "We've decided to take it one year at a time, mostly because so much can happen, and we've learned that, so much can happen. Things can change."

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsSAJufGCU8

      The second is from a clip of the FD press conference during Worlds 2011. Once again, it's the question of if they'll be in Sochi. Tessa's at 1:56: "We've seen over the last several seasons that so much can change at the drop of a hat. We've been through so much, and you know it's been a roller coaster of a year, and we owe it to ourselves to take some time..."

      Tessa and Scott seem to love their half truths and burying a bit of truth within a lie (point blank or contextual). At first glance without the sham as reference, someone can take the leg surgeries as the "so much can happen, things can change, things can change at the drop of a hat" stuff, but really? Tessa had leg issues for a year before the CECS was diagnosed and the first surgery. They knew there was a problem, and you'd think they would have had in their minds that the problem might require some time away to fix. The second surgery was actually the combo of surgery+baby, but was the fact that she needed a second surgery really a surprise to them given all the pain she was in after the first? I just wonder if the so much can happen thing that they learned/things change at a drop of a hat situation was actually the baby.

      I know VM seem to be meticulous planners with their skating and life (with everything but the sham which at times as seem cobbled together), but biology, quite frankly, doesn't care what kind of planner you are, if you're an Olympic Gold medalists, if you plan to compete the next season. I don't know the numbers for other forms of birth control off the top of my head, but the pill as a typical use failure rate of 9%. 50% of all pregnancies, counting both married and unmarried women, in 20-somethings are unintended. That's an awful lot of babies and VM being VM wouldn't have made them immune to biology. And, yes, there's Scott's "we have some other big plans," but big plans don't necessarily mean baby. It could have been school, establishing post-skating careers. That was back in the days of Tessa saying she wanted to go to law school--something I don't think she's said since the baby was born.

      Once I saw those clips, just as a thought experiment, I sort of walked through several of the various situations that have arisen with VM from the prospective of the baby being planned vs. unplanned, and pretty much, the unplanned scenario seems to explain more to me.

      I just wanted to throw that out there.

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    16. Well, if you like I'll elaborate later but I disagree. I think the planning explains far more than an accident.

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    17. I would like to hear the rationale for planning too. How can we ever really KNOW, anyway? Even if Tessa told people it was planned, that doesn't mean it's true. Not to be too meta but she could have been lying to people and even to herself.

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    18. Is the baby still alive? Or did it die?

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  9. Also, you know, after winning in Vancouver, Scott said it wouldn't really matter to him if, in a second Olympics, they were fourth. You know that attitude has shifted, because nobody better has come along, and it would "simply" be DW defeating them while the two of them, Tessa and Scott, struggled with both built in unfairness in the scoring and their crumbling, somewhat, in the demoralizing face of that kind of pressure.

    They want gold. They're long past standing on the second rung of the Olympic podium next to DW and being, this was so worth the past four years.

    That may come to pass, however. They can act out their denials (denials of a bunch of stuff, including, IMO that how they conduct the sham is obscene), but, I still think they're in this for gold. They will be bitterly disappointed without gold.

    I wonder if WITHOUT a gold medal at Sochi to show for it, they would be able to justify their choices, sham most definitely included, of the past four years. If they'd be - we did all that and we got silver.

    And if they DIDN'T think it were well worth it to get silver, then we'd have to think they did all of this, including the choices for their child, to get gold. Which - ick. Not to mention they didn't need to do this to get gold.

    Some of what they did that fucked them up goes directly to the choice to have a baby. I think now (I didn't back then, but do now) that they deserved to win in Moscow 2011. But the reason they were in that situation was they had a baby. Instead of being "good sports" (politically speaking only) and letting DW have their gold, they came back. To some people, that read as arrogance - VM think they can take the entire season off, waltz into Worlds and defeat DW, after DW worked the whole season. That was the subliminal spin. VM had to lie at the 4CC's 2011 because a recently post-partum Tessa wasn't ready to skate the free.

    All of this goes back to the baby, and hiding the baby, and deciding to come back and compete despite just having a baby. Maybe it's "all for her - we wanted to skate for HER" a la G&G, but good luck considering Scott (and Tessa) were too gutless to deal with family or community because the gold medal pursuit in this quad meant dealing with things such as their kid's long term best interest and their family's involvement was too much of a DISTRACTION, so better sham,

    DW have had the upper hand, in terms of media spin, ever since that season when the official story was Scott and Tessa sat it out while she recovered from a second bout of shins, then came into Moscow figuring they could get gold, bringing a whole bunch of Moirs along to celebrate when they did it. I could see it looking very much like disrespect, even though obviously, IMO, as skaters, VM should have defeated them. That wasn't how either side was spinning it at the time. Both were spinning it as a near-equal rivalry.

    So it's totally possible they can blame the baby for not winning gold in Sochi. If they want to. If they hadn't, the tables wouldn't have turned. Hiding the baby created opportunity for the other side.

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    1. <<>>

      You have talked before about how much the media surrounding Tessa and Scott is in the tank for them. They know the truth but willingly keep quiet.

      In spite of being aware of that truth about the skating media it is still very hard to accept that a documentary company would aid and abet a hoax on the public. Everyone knows a reality show is not in fact "reality" but staged scenes - but the public still expects those staged scenes are showing a slice of reality. Not complete made-up bs. So far, that's what the off-ice pictures of this documentary look like. Presenting Scott as a single guy living the frat, bar-hopping life with friends and a gf. A hoax indeed.

      <<>>

      I want to believe there are people in London and Ilderton who know them and are appalled.

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    2. I think there is no way at this point that VM would be happy with anything less than that gold. I think in 2010 they might have envisioned a scenario where some of the younger teams might have come on and surpassed them, but that didn't happen. What happened is that VM just continued to get better and better. VM have to know they're better than DW and the entire rest of the field by fathom after fathom.

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    3. Yes, they do know. And I suspect if they lose, no matter what they understand intellectually (that what Scott used to say about CoP, how it legitimatized ice dance and rewarded what was on the ice, is no longer true in ice dance), they'll be burned. They may try to be philosophical but they'll be pissed. They're not in it to be silver. It would be especially galling, IMO, to be silver to DW. IMO all of ice dance and should be appalled if it ends up that DW are three time world champions and Sochi champions and VM end up being obsolete after 2012. Insane.

      But, it appears to me that last year, and carrying over this year, they let it (the double standard in the scoring, the fact that they're scored against themselves, not DW) get to them. And despite the glitches in Finlandia, they still got jobbed in the scores, while whatever lift issues DW had at SLC still permitted the judges to give them 110. That doesn't look good. Any mistakes VM make just enables something already working against them. Absolutely they should let it go, be who they are, and let the chips fall, because there's nothing else they can control.

      BUT, when they had the baby, and handled that season the way they handled it (hiding that they had a baby, doing a lot of stagecraft and playing with timelines), they opened the door for their story and their narrative to be manipulated by others. And in a way, it's very clever that although they haven't been called out on their lies and on the insane hoax they continue to perpetuate, in some ways the climate they've created with their lies has been appropriated to use against them in their skating. There's really no reason, is there, that people should be insinuating that 2012 was unfair (Worlds) or that Tessa and Scott couldn't have won 4CCs in 2013 if they hadn't had an interruption.

      Would 2013 4CC have had that reaction if 2011 hadn't happened when many people have good reason to believe it WAS shiftiness in 2011? Ironically, in 2011 it wasn't shiftiness towards winning (they withdrew) but a gambit to get short dance feedback and to put themselves back in the picture before worlds. But if that hadn't happened, and they'd interrupted in 2013, would anyone have reacted to 2013 they way they did (or the ISU). It's funny, too, that in all the talk about the "Virtue Moir rule" (meaning the amendment to the interruption rule) there's very few reminders (any?) that they withdrew after stopping in 2011. Yes, they withdrew, didn't continue, but it seems odd that that is so conspicuously unreferenced. It was the same competition. Two stops in three years.

      I guess what I'm wondering is if in some ways they've trapped themselves with their own lies. After 2011, suddenly it became okay to portray VM as underhanded, not to be trusted, much less or more than meets the eye, don't be specific, just use implication. Where does this come from? Where does the spin that DW are casting themselves AGAINST somebody unnamed (casting themselves favorably, by implication, against unnamed people who shouldn't be viewed so favorably) come from?

      Yes, of course DW want to win, the US media wants them to win, but that seems like the last tactic anyone would ever use against the Canadian sweethearts from 2010. How would that ever gain traction? It would look like sour grapes.

      With what other skaters as talented as they are would such insinuations stick? To me, it feels as if some people have decided to hoist VM by their own petard. Use the personal life shenanigans, what's said, unsaid, suspected, the conversation itself, whether people believe it or not, and exploit that climate to throw shade on their skating and on their results. I don't know if this was something VM would have ever anticipated, but the games they played with pregnancy and baby, through 4CCs, and coming back to Worlds that year, opened the door.

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  10. Do you think the judges know? do you think they're punishing them in the scores at all for being con artists about their personal life?

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    1. I think federation politics has more to do with it. Oksana Grishuk was villified in the press because of her affair with Zhulin, but she still became Olympic champion--twice. In 1994, U/Z got bumped to silver probably not because of his shenanigans, but because they had an F/D that did not play to their strengths. Speaking of conning, what about Sale/Pelletier? The media were hyping them as a Canadian fairytale, but no one was talking about how he left his wife for her.

      I think this is a combo of the USFSA pushing very, very hard for their only real gold medal threat in skating, SC putting their eggs all in Patrick Chan's basket, and the ISU going along with it. ISU is also playing up a 'rivalry' (barf) -- wouldn't want an Oly champion to repeat, it's bad for business (and it's also easier to arrange in ice dance, compared to singles and pairs).

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    2. In 1994, UZ also had an injury issue. Zhulin injured his groin and they missed a chunk of training time because of it.

      It's easy to go to woudn't want an Olympic Champion to repeat, but then how do you explain Yuna Kim? No one is holding her down.

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    3. As for Yu-Na, she made a very strong case for herself at the 2013 Worlds, while her rivals faltered. I suppose if there were any other ladies who were not only technically as strong in the jumps, but also performed well when it mattered most, then the quest for the ladies gold would be more equitable.

      I don't think Yu-Na has the absolute best skating skills of today's ladies, but she does have the big jumps/combos that are rewarded very handsomely by the IJS when done well. Unfortunately, Mao's reworking of her tech this quad has had mixed results, and her triple axel is kind of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'; her (f)lutz makes me wince and her packaging/presentation (lithe, floaty, lovely) skews a little 'young' for a woman gearing for a 2nd Olympics. While it might be argued that Carolina is more mature/the better artist/has better 'pure' skating skills than Yu-Na, judges seem to prefer the latter's tech (i.e.jumps). When Yu-Na is healthy, skating clean and landing her monstrous jumps (and by the way, I do vainly wish that she'd be able to get over her issue with her triple loop), the other girls can't seem to touch her.

      I don't know, it doesn't seem quite logical to me, either. The most obvious 'tricks' for a casual viewer would be the jumps, but that doesn't explain Patrick Chan, does it? Chan, who can fall twice and still be on top because of the superior skating skills and bespoke CoP programs. It just seems easier to me for judges to prop up people in ice dance compared to the other disciplines.

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    4. "Also, we can consider the possibility (bearing in mind Jessica Dube's multiple Moir xmases in one year) that this instagram photo, tagged "this morning" is not actually from "this morning". That would be classic sham."

      I thought of that possibility as well. But either way, I can't think of any acceptable scenarios for a documentary about Virtue/Moir to be filming inside the house of the girl who loves her role as Scott's fake honey.

      What, is Scott making Cassandra's junior-high fiction a reality? Cuddling on her sofa while she plays guitar? It boggles the mind to think he is deliberately portraying himself as hanging out in this house instead of being in his own home with his wife and child. Their thinking is truly warped.

      Is it possible the documentary team knows the truth but they would play along to this extreme? Could they be sued for hoaxing the public? They're publicizing this as Scott and Tessa's real life but this latest picture is further proof this is not going to be any kind of "real life" of VM's.

      How can they do this to their child!

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    5. I agree with everything you said, 10:06.

      I don't understand either how they can do this to their child. Apparently, even Tessa's friends are going to be in the documentary. It truly seems that everyone they know and everyone they're related to but their flesh-and-blood child is going to get to be in this thing. I don't get how a parent can look at their child and make the decision to behave so grossly and callously towards that child. I feel so bad for that poor baby. I've said this previously. I know they're hoaxing the public, but I'm far more outraged for that innocent little person than I am for myself. I've liked plenty of ice dance teams before VM. VM will retire, and others will come along. It's just how it goes. That child is stuck with them forever. They're her parents and they're doing this to her.

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    6. It all depends on how the documentary is framed. When I would watch a show like Dancing with the Stars, it was easy to notice how the "rehearsal package" was often manipulated It could be done legitimately because the show itself used no framing device. It was all done in editing, allowing the viewer to acquire an impression that the show didn't actually state. On that show, for example, I've seen segments where the dancers looked intense and there were quick cuts, and they clearly were talking to each other at some point, but the dialogue used over that footage wasn't actually dialogue the dancers were saying to each other in the amped up (via the quick cuts) situation we were watching. And the show never said it was. They simply stitched together a bunch of elements and let us draw conclusions. I saw it in a "real people" commercial the other day. There were a whole bunch of supposed "real people" reacting to a brand, including a guy celebrating something about the brand, making a triumphant gesture, and a whoo hoo sound, but if you look at it carefully, the woo hoo wasn't necessarily him. And that's fine. They never said it was. They never dubbed it in, either, so we'd THINK it was. It was simply that the juxtaposition of his gesture and the music and woo hoo made it easy to assume.

      What this means is, they don't have to say this is Scott's girlfriend. And, as we've noticed, what Connor instagrammed doesn't actually have to represent what the Hilborn house looked like this morning. If Scott chowed down and hung out for the cameras, it could happen any time.

      Because this "reality show" (and I think there's a reason we're told it's a reality show as often as we're told it's a "documentary) can, as many reality shows DO, things like this:

      VO: "After Finlandia, Scott and Tessa regrouped with family and friends." Or even "After Finlandia, Scott and Tessa took a break to touch base with family and friends over Thanksgiving weekend."

      OR, we hear Scott or Tessa VO that after stressful competitions it's important to get grounded again at home. And while this is what we hear, what we see is Scott hanging out with the Hilborns. But, the "reality show" never said Scott spent Thanksgiving with Cassandra. The reality show never said the visual we're seeing was filmed over Thanksgiving. They simply put the audio together with the visual and let us assume, Scott spent Thanksgiving at the Hilborns. Or, Cassandra is Scott's girlfriend, and the audience ALSO thinks the reality show told us that, when the reality show very deliberately did not tell us that.

      Reality shows are very good at creating impressions without actually lying, or without actually saying what an audience thinks is said. I used to see it all the time on even mainstream reality shows. In the DWTs scenario I mention up above, it appeared as if the pro was being a merciless drill sergeant to the celebrity, but if you stopped being distracted by the quick cuts that made everything look more intense, it was easy to tell the difference between something they actually said in the scene we were watching, and dialogue lifted from some other situation used almost like a soundtrack for what we were seeing. It's a mix of real and what's suggested via the juxtaposition of different elements edited together that actually don't relate to each other, but the juxtaposition encourages us to believe they do.

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    7. Judging from the few pictures provided so far on instagram from various sources - this is not going to be a true sports documentary which is unfortunate because VM has had a longtime partnershipship where they have worked so hard to achieve success etc and there should be enough material to cover it etc except you get the feeling that the way this is going to be portrayed is Tessa's support system vs. Scott's support system. I really wonder if Tessa's family will make an appearance. Will VM's previous coaches make an appearance, Mary Brannigan etc...And to think that the Hilborns will get more air time than Patrick Chan, ? Jeff Buttle, ? Kurt Browning, ? Cody Hay etc is cringeworthy....Instagram/twitter is the new facebook...It's funny that VM have yet to update their official website and are not on the internet yet via others this summer and fall practically within 24 hours - friends post pictures on Saturdays/Sundays that they are not together...very deliberate messages...the bridal shoot is one thing - this supposed documentary is another...why even focus on the personal especially since VMs parents all know that your friends in your 20s are not the same ones in your 30s or 40s - especially when it comes to gf/bfs - this is just dumb. And seriously you really have to wonder who thought this idea this was...Basically VM themselves have basically been off the grid in terms of the internet and providing any pictures over their career and now we are getting a close and personal...wtf...but as oc has mentioned in will be interesting to see how this will be edited...

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    8. Hi Anon here at 6:21 - basically I think the majority of VM fans want a behind the scenes of the skating process not the this is what I do to unwind or who I hang with on the weekend. That's what makes VM special is the hard work and the various collaborations. This is what you want to document and provide an insight to the skating fans. There is no need to go Kardashian...
      It's also very ironic that Connor Hilborn a few months ago posted an instagram a few months ago basically saying don't make dumb people famous...how ironic that this little thug who can't stop with the selfies then recently praises Miley Cyrus...so much respect for her...folks that in a nutshell says it all...media whoring at its best....

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    9. 10:33 How do you know Tessa's friends will be in the doc as well?

      I like Tessa's friends. They don't seem to be fazed by her status unlike Scott's gf and friends. Maybe because Tessa's friends are successful/known in their own right.

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    10. They never had any intention of having this be a sports video.

      We've always know Virtue and Moir have no interest in sharing behind the scenes anything. Not skating, not themselves, not anything. Not for free.

      Look at Scott on his fan facebook. After awhile it became more than clear that he wasn't sharing anything sports-related or skating show related, not because he was inattentive or didn't have time, but because he made an active choice not to do so. He made an active choice not to say thank you for all the birthday wishes he'd get on his personal fb and subsequently his fan facebook (until he wanted to plan sham bait). He and Tessa both tote cameras around, he's got people falling over themselves who could have uploaded something like "The view out the bus window in Korea!" and it never happened. That's intentional. It's a "sin" of commission, it's not neglect.

      And now these people flip around and say oh gee, it's the Olympics, we really want a behind the scenes documentary? No they don't. They don't even want the limited access type of documentary. Or even self-promotion.

      This is a vehicle for London and Ildterton promotion. To achieve it, it has to be packaged as behind the scenes with Scott and Tessa as they prepare for Canadians (and then onward to Sochi), but the Hilborns? The Ingliss farm? Possibly the golf event where Scott and Cassandra were shown? THAT's what it's about.

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    11. If Tessa is being shown with her friends at all, it will be to account for her activities while Scott is living his "separate" life, and to finesse the fact that it's Ilderton, and various attention-hungry connections of SCOTT's, not Tessa's, for whom this is being made.

      When we see how other athletes prepare for the Olympics, it's really telling, as had been said many times, that not only do Scott's connections not back off as VM prepare for the Olympics, but they press themselves into the picture even more. Do any of them consider this could impact the results they want so much? A win at Sochi? Not care? Are arrogant enough to think all this crap has no impact - didn't impact Vancouver?

      It apparently IS at the expense how strongly Scott and Tessa are able to compete, based on competitions last year and now right off the bat, this , based on how they're competing (the struggle to stay inside themselves when they never had that problem before in competition, stumbles in elements that are almost characteristic of them at this point even late in the season).

      Their skating is gorgeous, but when it's crunch time, they can't keep their heads 100% in the game.

      I found it extremely off-putting last year that in the run-up to what was going to be an incredibly tense and stressful worlds in London, Carol Moir and Alma Moir used the occasion and Scott and Tessa's celebrity to sell yellow sweatshirts. It's about them (Moirs, the ISC, London pals who wanted to be lifted on Scott and Tessa's tide) and Scott has been enabling that every step of the way. It's all the DW pressure and the unfair scoring?

      If Tessa is being shown with her friends at all, it will be to account for her activities while Scott is living his "separate" life, and also to finesse the fact that it's Ilderton, and various attention-hungry connections of SCOTT's, not Tessa's, for whom this is being made.

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    12. So, to boil it down, I believe the scoring and the fake rivalry and the corruption are impacting how VM compete. Not skate, compete. But is it just that or is it a vicious cycle that includes the expectations of Ilderton and London and the absolutely insane expectations Scott and Tessa have shouldered to deliver the spotlight and promotion to Ilderton while simultaneously preparing for Sochi?

      That agenda - the Ilderton part of it - somehow seems to not sufficiently respect what it takes to win the Olympics, or sufficiently respect the task at hand, mentally and psychologically. But arrogance is in no short supply among these people. Where problems arise, they simply direct blame outward.

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    13. OC - Anon here at 6:21 am - I totally agree that VM need to up their competitive consistency. We know that they are perfectionists and are hard on themselves and are aware that they need to skate at 120% to beat DW. But I also believe that the Ilderton expectations are starting to creep on them. Instead of boundaries - it appears to be the opposite. I just don't think this is healthy. Sometimes I just wish someone would stand up (ie. Scott) and say okay we have a job to do - this is our last Olympics and we are going to isolate ourselves. We have the rest of our lives for personal - but we only get one more shot at the Olympics....this is VMs Olympics not the Moirs et al Olympics...

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    14. I agree with all the points being made about Scott's family and friends' smothering expectations and burdens they place on VM. But how would they go about separating themselves while still having to live among them?

      It's a tricky situation to navigate--they have cited visa reasons that require them to return to Canada every weekend plus there's the weekly training they do with Maria Mountain. They can't just not go to London every weekend. Also, with a child in the picture they probably do want to maintain as much extended-family time as possible. It's not like Tessa and Scott can stay in Detroit for extended periods of time without going to London, or go somewhere else in Canada during the weekends to avoid the Ilderton-London pressures.

      Besides Scott standing up to them, I think this is very much on his family. They could be a wall around VM (not the *whole* Moir clan obviously, just the immediate family) and kindly and firmly keep everything and everyone else out. And I'm sorry but as much as they must all love Scott's group of "buddies" it can't be helpful to immerse himself in their social activities during a time of intense pressure preparing for the Olympics.

      If Scott's family can't or won't be there for him as that protective wall, I guess it's all up to him--if he had the balls for it. But practically, what would that look like in their particular situation where they can't avoid going home every weekend?

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    15. Really, even if they have to go to Canada on the weekends, it's as simple as just standing up and saying no, they can't do this, that, or the other because they need to focus. But, Scott won't do that because he has no balls.

      This whole season is just going to be a giant trainwreck. They can't even skate clean any more. What's the point of defending their skating when they won't even draw the lines they need to draw in order to compete well?

      What a letdown they are.

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    16. Scott and Tessa don't need to be in London. She goes to school in Windsor.

      Furthermore, unless the entire community is camped out on the street of the London apartment, they don't need to "do" anything to manage this situation. Set your schedule and your needs, keep to it, and let the chips fall.

      But if the agenda is to meet everybody's needs, live up to THEIR terms and THEIR idea of how you should "give back" and show your gratitude to London, then that's an impossible agenda and it's not going to look like anything. It's a fuck up.

      The problem is if you want to draw boundaries AND appease everybody AND make sure they know you haven't gotten above yourself AND give back - that's not possible. The demands of the people whose expectations you're trying to meet are wrong. They're not going to call it, you have to call it.

      Otherwise, I don't see how Scott, a tough adult, is powerless to tell Ilderton and London that he's not their bitch. If he wants to NOT be their bitch without telling them that, and he's afraid to be disliked or judged, then yes, that's a problem.

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    17. It's not just that Tessa's friends have their own lives, they have a completely different mindset. Some of her friends appear to still be in the aspirational stage of their careers, but they are taking concrete steps to make those careers real.

      Is it really Scott and Tessa's Olympics? Seems like the Moir Olympics to me. How can the Moirs be the "wall" if the Moirs comprise some of the people who are expecting to piggyback on Scott and Tessa's fame, use it as a calling card for their own enterprises? They deliver Scott and Tessa to friends, neighbors, and potential participants in the ISC, this whole thing consolidates their power base at the ISC and in the community. If the sham networks with other influential people (such as the Hilborns or the Ingliss's) all the better for the Moirs.

      How can Scott say "They'll be time for personal later, there's only this last shot at the Olympics" if the Moirs see it the same way, as THEIR Olympics. Add in London and Ilderton. Scott and Tessa will never be as famous as they are now, ergo, London and Ilderton will never have as large a reflected spotlight. They want it NOW, not later. Now it's as if whatever part of the world is interested in Scott and Tessa has to get it through Ilderton. When they're no longer Olympic athletes people aren't really going to care so much about whether they have access to Scott and Tessa or not. Right now it's a package deal. Later it may be, you know, I can take or leave all of it. The Moirs see the time is now too, for them.

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    18. Moirville is despicable.

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    19. OC- I agree that the Moirs think this is their last chance to be in the spotlight. You would have thought that having Worlds in London was enough and that they would have been able to walk away. And don't get me wrong - I am all about giving back to the community etc but this year should be about Tessa and Scott period. VM gave their pound of flesh years ago. Scott's situation is not unique in terms of family being involved. We see this situation in tennis as well - the boundaries issue. It's not as overt but it's there. I don't doubt that the family wants the best for VM - but at the same time you just get the impression that they want to be in control and that expectations are there...my two cents...can you imagine if Scott decided not to coach or let alone not coach at the Ilderton Skating Club? I don't think that would bode well at the dinner table...

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    20. One also wonders if Scott's ego is involved at all - he's so important to the community, he's the big deal in the community, the demands are all on him, look at what he's obligated to do because of all the Moirs, he's the most important, hence, if it plays apart, a martyr/vanity complex. Dude, they'd all get along without you fine. What's going on there with the community/family that participates in and perpetuates this is selfishness. It's not really about what Scott "means" and his importance.

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    21. I am not sure if it's Scott's ego per se - I always got the impression that Scott was community oriented and someone who is loyal. I think Ilderton has played its cards in terms of saying to Scott - we have always supported you and we are your true friends. You don't need anybody else. Maybe they have said to him - is Charlie White really a friend anymore? How about Meryl Davis? Do you think that the Virtues care about you? Look at what happened with Zoueva/Shpilband - who has your best interest at heart?

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    22. 6:56
      Played their cards is right. They are front and center in VM's upcoming documentary. Scott is proving his loyalty. The Ilderton/London crowd will have their moment in the spotlight.

      Meanwhile. Scott and Tessa's real lives will remain hidden and lied about as always. Ilderton should be proud of itself. They've reduced Scott to being their special pet with no courage to present himself to the world as a grown man with family responsibilities. It's sickening to watch.

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    23. So why isn't Tessa taking responsibility for herself and her daughter?

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    24. Should Tessa go public and announce Scott is really her husband and not Cassandra's boyfriend?

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    25. Tessa is a woman able to rationalize sitting next to her husband, pregnant, and emo-sharing about the year long rift that happened between them, a period encompassing their marriage. She can gaslight with the best of them. They spent a good deal of time marketing a book that wrapped a complete hoax in edited pieces of actual history - the actual history was used to sell a central lie.

      She can also sit there pregnant, on TV, and talk about how she doesn't date people in the skating world. I don't think her perspective is within the range of normal.

      Of course Scott has a sense of loyalty and responsibility. There's that and, sure, I'll deny my wife and ignore my daughter the better to facilitate the community showboating and bleeding dry every ounce of my celebrity and associated bragging rights. The latter isn't responsibility and loyalty; it's dysfunctional.

      There's no contradiction between Scott acting as a responsible parent and spouse (same for Tessa) and showing loyalty and responsibility to his community family. But there's nothing responsible about this hoax. Nothing. When you marry and have a child they are supposed to become priority one, not your family of origin. Of course if you twist it enough, you can pretend your family of origin's behavior is an act of God totally outside your control and therefore what you're doing is protecting your child from that. What this really is is a huge cop out by Scott. And Tessa. Maybe it's more than b.s. when they refer to themselves as kids. Maybe despite being married and parents that's how they cop out to themselves.

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    26. So what is the Virtue family doing about this? And Tessa's supposedly completely normal friends?

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    27. Who says Scott's friends are going to be in the documentary? Other than a vague instagram photo, where's the proof for that? Talking about Cassandra in public is the dumbest thing they could do- so much of their PR after the last Olympics included the "are you a couple" question... These non-Tessa "girlfriends" are just punishment for those who invade their privacy by looking them up online, etc. Those that only follow the PR package they are putting out will never hear of Scott's "girlfriend"

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    28. 3:46, they have to be dumb, just look how the married Scott frolicks sexually with a girl who is not his wife, and gives the green light for posting on public internet sites. You expect them not to be dumb when it comes to this documentary? I'm expecting them to be assholes.

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    29. 7:40 I wonder if perhaps Tessa's friends have tried to convince her otherwise but since there seems to be no changing Tessa's mind on this being a good thing, they're just quietly supporting her. Though it does strike me as odd that these friends only seem to pop up when there's also been a Scott/Cassandra bait thrown out there.

      As to the Virtues, who the hell knows. Kate, I suspect, is kept busy with babysitting and helping Tessa. Dad must think this is a great idea, though why a lawyer would allow his daughter and son-in-law to publicly humiliate themselves is beyond me. Jordan's in Australia, so she's pretty removed from it all and Tessa's brothers might as well not exist for all we see/hear from them. Perhaps they are the ones who disapprove of this whole thing.

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    30. 6:49 Scott poses suggestively with these girls TO have them posted on public internet sites. What else would be the point? I guess I'm saying there would be no point in posing if that weren't the intention. It's not like it's a compound offense - that he poses and publicizes. The whole reason he poses is to publicize.

      I think the hide and seek is to make fans look like they're constantly poking around. However the pattern is whenver fans are focused on skating, or whenever internet fans are trying really hard not to rock the boat, that's when the sham acts out in order to re-engage the attention of fans. So I disagree the non-Tessa "girlfriends" are punishment for looking Scott up on line. One, back in the day Scott opened up his facebook and proactively swept in hundreds of fans in order to ENCOURAGE them to look. They weren't creeping while Scott & Tessa cleverly laid bait. They were carnival barkers inviting people in and then baiting and switching. Currently, whenever fans engage on a passionate level about the skating, the sham stirs itself and tries to change the conversation to the sham.

      A few comments up, somebody said they HOPED there are those in London and Ilderton who disapprove of the sham. Well of course. Consider Ilderton. Do we really imagine everyone in Ilderton are just thrilled at the Moirs heavy-footed self-promotion, that the town even jokingly calls itself Moirville, that they're as out there and glory-hogging as they are? I'm sure the civic leaders are delighted to have four plaques at the four corners announcing that it's the Home of Tessa and Scott, but I don't think there's any community that would completely embrace a familiy's attempt to make themselves the Trumps of that town - or the Trumps of figure skating. It's one thing for the Moirs to be affiliated with the ISC, it's another for them to completely run it, for it to be a Moir fiefdom, and for the family to be as full of itself as it is. Of course there's plenty of people eager for a piece of it who want in on the action, and I believe it stands to reason there are plenty who sit it out. Many people here, including the blogger, often get sidetracked on the issue of Toddler Moir, but the larger picture is they're hoaxing the public. Ilderton's name is on that hoax. The Moirs have no qualms. They're righteous about it. At the moment, prior to the airing of the documentary, the sham is actively showing off how much it's going to lie in the documentary, suggesting it's going to up the ante and show Scott with his fake girlfriend. Let's look at what it is. Suppose it shows Scott with his fake girlfriend. They've just escalated the hoax to "legit" media as this is airing on a legit network. No matter how they reality show it ("reality show" seems to be under their umbrella of "license to lie", just as "nature of the sport" means we lie, just as "business" means we lie, just as "marketing tool" means we lie) - they're lying and hoaxing on a major Canadian network WHILE promoting Ilderton and its connecting interests in London.

      Let's suppose Scott doesn't show up at the Hilborns after all, or the Cassandra's not at the Ingliss farm. Then why is it being publicly instagrammed? It's bait. It's taunting. Fuck you we do what we want, including lie our asses off.

      Believe it or not, that's not something everyone in Ilderton (as opposed to Moirville) would find entertaining.

      oc

      Delete
    31. Why is the Virtue family standing aside and allowing Tessa and the rest of the Moir family ruin their grandchild's life?

      Delete
    32. Why do you have some elevated idea of the Virtue family? Best case scenario, they've known and been friends/family with the Moirs for years, partnered with them to support Scott and Tessa's career, and if there's an extent to which they do things differently, they'll support the sham because the sham supports Tessa (how the sham seems to be that barrier between her and having all of Moirville in her house with her, so to speak. All of Moirville up her ass while she's trying to have a life and prep for Sochi). It doesn't seem as if actually expecting MOIRVILLE to respect boundaries is ever on the table. They're the 800 lbs. gorilla and everybody else, including the "stars" Scott and Tessa, accomodate in one way or the other.

      Also, last Olympics, Kate Virtue told a story about how she almost wanted to draw the line when Tessa got compartment syndrome the first time. How she felt it was too much to do the surgery and train, so she told her she didn't have to, and Tessa said if I want to go to the Olympics I do. These are Tessa's decisions, not the Virtues. It seems obvious the Virtues help with whatever she decides.

      Everything is the Olympics. Before it was Vancouver. Now it's Sochi. That's where everything's strategic, everything's focused, systematic, that's where they insist on being surrounded with intelligent people. Their LIVES, and their child's life (or the things that impact their child that will have a long long reverb - her exclusion from the record, and the photos her father has out there of himself with other women, and the things other people SAY about her father and other women, that her father chose to do and promote) - seem to be things they'll deal with later.

      Delete
    33. "Why do you have some elevated idea of the Virtue family?"

      Probably because all of your analysis says that all the problems are caused by Scott and the Moir family. If all the problems are caused by one side of the family, and the problems are serious enough to be termed as child abuse, as some posters here have described it, it only makes sense to question what the other side of the family is doing.

      Delete
    34. Anon at 5:48 pm - you bring up good points. In general I get the impression that Tessa values her privacy and that she feels more comfortable having some sort of barrier with the public. Part of it if I had to guess is her shyness to meeting new people and feeling comfortable around them. I think we underestimate how in figure skating - females tend to be easily criticized, cliques develop and depending on your personality - you can feel like the outsider. Tessa was never a diva or a sorority type - and you can even tell with some older videos that even among skaters - she was never chatty...even Marina Zoueva stated in an interview years ago that Meryl, Charlie and Scott would always hang out together but Tessa needed time for herself...which is totally fine...my two cents...

      Delete
    35. Whether or not she values her privacy doesn't excuse any of these actions.

      Delete
    36. I agree 7:28. The actions are grotesque. The issue has long since stopped being about privacy and now it's about integrity and moral uprightness. So far they get a failing grade.

      Delete
    37. 5:48 Moirville may create issues but I guess my question is, why wouldn't the Virtues be enablers? Up in the skating 24/7 is not their thing - in a new Olympic promo for Scott and Tessa, Kate says she didn't go to the rink, so that's how the Virtues supposedly do it. They're not all up in the skating itself. Does it follow, though, that they'd try to put the Moirs in check? The families are very close and have been for years. So I see it as separate things. No, the Virtues aren't the same personalities. They don't have the same expectations/demands. But does it follow that they disapprove of those who do, or do they see it as just a built-in challenge that they help Tessa and Scott manage, as opposed to seeing it as a core problem that should be confronted as such, with the expectation that people (Moirs, etc.) change their behavior? It doesn't seem as if anyone sees much wrong with the Moir behavior if this is how things are managed. More like, well it's Scott and Tessa's problem to manage - or challenge to manage - with the Moirs and Moirville being normalized. So dysfunctional.

      Delete
    38. Speaking of that promo, I thought Scott's comment (paraphrased) that if they skate better enough, that the rest will take care of itself.

      I wonder if he still feels that way. They sure skate more than better than DW every single time they take the ice.

      Delete
    39. That first statement should have had an "an interesting" on the end of it.

      Delete
    40. I don't see how this situation is child abuse. I also believe if our speculation about potential harm done overreaches, it becomes not credible.

      The kid is stuck with two things: One, there's been a lot of media of Scott and Tessa in this quad, quite a bit of it generated by Scott and Tessa. In this media - video, photoshoots, interviews, etc., their child doesn't exist. This includes during the period Tessa was pregnant. I think that's going to be pretty rough, to eliminate this child from the record of her parents' history - nothing on the record to show her spouse, her own kids, her friends, etc. It's particularly galling because even though Scott and Tessa are pitching lies, they are particularly emphasizing how they want public documents to look back on. That seems along the lines of their typical hubris - make the lie BIGGER. A more audacious lie is more credible (like Scott saying he'd like to have a beautiful daughter).

      So that's obnoxious and it's sad.

      And there's the fact that Scott has posed for salacious and suggestive pictures with other women he pretends is his girlfriend, that as he knows and everyone else knows, fans have saved the photos and have emailed them to each other, and there are fans who have everything on their flickr and other hosting sites. There's no bubble that hides that. The accompanying hooting and egging on and LOVE signs from friends about what a great couple they are is also disgusting.

      Those are the two things.

      Hiding the child in itself isn't such a huge deal if Scott and Tessa conducted themselves with anything resembling discretion or consistency. They don't. They throw it in this kid's face.

      Having a sham gf is one thing. Posing the way Scott poses with the accompanying cheerleading from friends is another.

      So, for me, it's how they do it, not what they do. Denying something doesn't have to rise to the level of a hoax. A zone of privacy - even a sham - doesn't have to be an outright hoax. This was. It wasn't necessary. So there's an overblown mess left behind for her. It's not abusive in the legal sense. It's sad.

      Delete
    41. Even though Kate states that she wasn't at the rink - she has been involved in VM's skating career - in terms of costumes etc. But I think one big difference with the Virtues is that Tessa had siblings that all played a variety of sports and that she knows when to step back. When you have a brother that got a baseball scholarship in the US - you have to be a very good athlete - especially a Canadian player going to the US. You get the impression that if V/M did not win gold in Vancouver - the Virtues would be fine. Moirville not so much. I just don't envy Scott. Although he probably loves the sport - you just get the impression that his family has pigeonholed him in this corner. Holycow can you imagine if this guy actually played professional hockey..like we've said before - what will Moirville do when VM are out of the spotlight. Good thing that VM actually moved to Detroit and had some distance cuz it seems on the Moir side - everyone has an opinion. And I am hoping that during the Olympics we don't get a shot at the Ilderton community center or Shoeless Joes..once was enough...if anything - I'd rather get a shot of the London community supporting Christine Nesbitt...

      Delete
    42. The Virtues aren't in the skating business, or the baseball business. They're not running a baseball clinic. They're not running a credentialed Canadian figure skating club. They're involved, but it's no their business. That makes a difference as well in whether you look at your kid as a commodity where their business is literally your business, or your kid is your kid.

      Delete
  11. Why are people calling Scott Moir a PUPPY lately?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. uh because he looks cute? whats it to you anyway?

      Delete
    2. "Puppy" is childish. Many on this blog, including the blogger, have been practically begging Scott to grow up and act like a responsible adult. Being puppy-like is so opposite what I (and many) wish to see in him.

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    3. And it's bullshit. It's self-serving.

      Delete
  12. i love how this person attempts to talk about scores but completely ignores the ongoing scandal in dance. http://quadlutz.tumblr.com/post/63920325280/figure-skating-scores-101

    ReplyDelete
  13. do you think jordan's gonna be in the doc? since she's in australia

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I hope not. She made the right decision to get the hell away from her sister and that mess. She seems very happy in Australia.

      Delete
  14. So TSL interviewed Chris Howarth of Eurosport, the former singles skater-turned-commentator. He thinks D/W are the team to beat for the OGM, without really giving details as to why.

    This is the same guy that thought that Ilinykh and Katsalapov’s hot mess of "Ghost" program was brilliant and thought there wasn't much seperating V/M's Carmen from C/L's Carmen at Worlds.

    I always find his ice dance commentary to be non-specific...he always raves about D/W without actually pointing out why they deserve to win (except for that they have faster twizzles...whatever), and although praises V/M, never to the point of overpraising them ahead of D/W.

    It is this kind of ignorance on the part of the commentators that fosters continued ignorance in the viewing public.

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    Replies
    1. i don't like the eurosport commentators. this chris is a singles skater so he might not be as knowledgeable of ice dance. tbh it's like they don't fully pay attention. i remember during 2010, one of them pointed out that no one was doing a spanish od like t/s then the other corrected him saying crone/poirier also had a spanish one.

      Delete
    2. I don't mind the commentary of Nicky Slater, who was a competitive ice dancer with Karen Barber back the in the days of Torvill & Dean, but it is always inevitably that Chris guy calling the big events (GPF, Worlds, Olympics) and Nicky calling the other smaller events.

      He needs to be called out on his BS...surely, Eurosport has emails and other forums to ask questions to the commentators.

      Delete
  15. Do you know why Scott is always seen with a girlfriend, but Tessa is seldom seen with a boyfriend? There was some mild shamming with Tessa and her fake boyfriends, but nothing to the extent of what Scott is doing. Tessa doesn't even seem interested in promoting her side of the sham. I wonder if what OC said is true and that Scott finds himself enjoying a bit of the "acting" process.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think it's because of the Moirs. The Virtues don't have the need to shove themselves into Tessa and Scott's business. The Moirs and their connections do. Therefore it's Scott that does the most shamming, and it's around the sham that the Moirs both showcase themselves and find an outlet for their more grasping, busybody qualities. Better than shoving themselves into training, or into Scott and Tessa's marriage, or telling Tessa what to do. It works as a diversion. I think the WAY it works - the way Scott poses and acts out - is Moir through and through. It's exhibitionism. I've often wondered too if it's ego, the way the woman has to BOW DOWN on social media while Scott is above it and never reciprocates (other than posing for photos). OTOH, the Ilderton crew and Scott's "buddies" do have a habit of behaving as if they think Scott's a kid and the whole fame thing entertaining and funny while meanwhile they are falling over themselves trying to get a share of his action.

      oc

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    2. It's true that Scott never reciprocates, which makes the sham even more fake. Not many women with any level of self-confidence would deal with being excluded from a social media presence. It's like if Scott doesn't use words to perpetrate the lie, it's not really a lie. If it's a picture then the blame is on us for seeing what we want to see. They're saying to us, "If you get offended by a double entendre, then that's because you have a dirty mind and what were YOU thinking?" They can then slip out the back door and not take any responsibility.

      Delete
    3. Well, I do think #onehotcouple and the genius idea to post the photo with Scott's fingers squeezing Cassandra's ass, not to mention at least three of the Dominican photos (the formal ones, not the candid ones) go a little further than eye of the beholder. And then some. It's more that I don't think Scott ever said the name "Jessica Dube." She not only did the occasional back and forth with him on her wall, she also had to talk about him to others, either while swooning or winking. He never talked about her on social media or in an interview. I can't think of a time he said or posted her name other than a "Go Jess and Bryce!" that was posted totally outside the framework of the sham. She did both - said his name on social media and French language media, and talked about him.

      Also, above there's talk about why doesn't Scott draw the line. It plays to me as if Scott thinks HE is the line. Literally. He's the line. He throws himself on the sword, he man ups for the sham so Moirville has a chew toy and a stage to play with and play on. And the sham persisting also means the real status is privileged information and the Moirs are the owners of the commodity that is VM and Scott. In so doing it plays to me as if he thinks he's functioning as the wall between Moirville and Tessa. BUT.

      The problem with that is where are his balls? Moirville is people. Send your freaking Alex Bilodeau email Scott. He's the manifestation of the wall because he lacks the stones to confront them like people. How intolerant of criticism and feedback are these people even from those they love? And why does he pander to their rejection of reasonable boundaries? If he shrinks from doing so that doesn't say very flattering things about either side about love and respect.

      And that's the best case scenario - the worst is exhibitionism, malice, some idea that he and Tessa are going to have a huge payday someday by holding out this long - all weird, illogical stuff. The first speaks of a dysfunctional family and how it's enabled. The second is just nuts, but not nuts ha ha. Nuts disturbing. Not to mention, as we all talk about all the time, the record he's leaving for his daughter that is forever. The neighbors see it. Her future love interests will see it. And their parents. That record makes the supposed "protection" (if that's what he's doing) hollow. One also wonders how Scott and Tessa themselves, as they've been described as children, would have handled this if they were in their daughter's shoes and their parents had left them this sort of legacy.

      Delete
    4. The other thing is the whole hide and seek game they play with photos, which seems intended to highlight that fans find everything and are nosy. Well, the way these sham photos are distributed, somebody in pre-school could find them without trying, so you don't have to be that nosy. Just because to them it feels clever doesn't mean it's not basic.

      Second, if it's somehow our fault for grabbing these photos and perpetuating them on the web, how does one explain that Scott posed for them? And why was it necessary to act out to the extent he does? Why IS he posing for them if he doesn't want to be seen? It just circles around and around them. There's no reason that ends up with the ball in our court.

      Delete
    5. "how does one explain that Scott posed for them? And why was it necessary to act out to the extent he does? Why IS he posing for them if he doesn't want to be seen? It just circles around and around them. There's no reason that ends up with the ball in our court."

      I noticed with Jessica they were very purposeful to not always share complete albums at once. Sometimes they did just put up the whole thing (like the New Years-Christmas with the Dubes). By dribbling out the pictures from one event little by little they perpetuated that idea that it was the fans' fault. Why, they were just sharing photos with friends!

      This time Cassandra has yet to put up a complete album of any event, but we can be certain that for every photo that's been released there's a whole album. That was the pattern before and so far this sham is along the identical lines as the last one. All those photos will be released at some point and they'll pretend they didn't share them before because of privacy issues. Yeah right.

      Absolutely, the question is, why is Scott posing and sharing to begin with? This is his idea of privacy? Of being off the internet? Give me a break. They want the public to see every single darn photo they've taken and I'm expecting a dumping at any moment. Scott does have to keep proving he's screwing Miss Hilborn and she's happy to oblige.

      This is how Scott prepares for an Olympic season. He acts out on camera with the fake GF and feeds it to the fans. This helps keep him and Tessa private and in their bubble and keeps the fans happy because they get photos of Scott romancing a girl. So come on Scotty, bring it on!

      Oh, and long-term consequences? The responsibilities of parenting? What's that?




      Delete
    6. There's still Jessica photos they didn't share. Remember the butter-wouldn't-melt-in-our-mouths Paris sting? Tessa and Scott skyped us to tell us how they were going to go around looking at the sights and crepe-eating. Not a photo of that did we ever see, so why did they make such a point? However, a year later a photo of Scott "photographing" Jessica is dropped. Who would be going around photographing him photographing her (not to mention the angles made it seem as if his camera wasn't even aimed at her). Of course there are more of those photos from Paris. There are more photos from Aruba - possibly another photo shoot a la the Dominican photo shoot.

      I don't know if either the Virtues or Moirs understand - or CARE - that there is no bubble that keeps out the internet, and Toddler Moir's father has very purposefully littered the internet with photos of himself and other women, all of them completely unnecessary for their supposed purpose - to let us know he has a girlfriend who isn't Tessa. None of it is necessary to establish either Jessica or CH is the girlfriend. This "documentary" is likewise unnecessary for privacy purposes.

      Delete
    7. It's funny how they're doing this under the guise of privacy for Toddler Moir and T/S from fans, yet they have absolutely no privacy from their own busybody family. Everyone's involved.

      Delete
  16. I think Scott & Tessa have seen the writing on the wall last year about them not winning the OGM. The jury has been out since then. They have just given up. If not they would have come out with a clean performance at Finlandia. They are leaps and bounds the bsst icedance duo & everyone in the skating community know it, but politics rule. I think they brought it upon themselbes with the sham and the stopping of programs. They left the door wide open. Plus the ISU counts on the rivalry for ratings. Like Dave said. D/W should never win against V/M. Tessa & Scott should just retire now and give a big FU to the ISU. Go out on top.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @7:01
      Gee, I think my favorite football team is going to lose their next game. They just can't compete against such-and-such... OMG, they should just pack it in and stop playing!! Why even bother. And the refs hate them... they should just quit!
      *rolleyes*

      Delete
    2. Give me a break. You think V/M meant to come out and make mistakes at Finlandia? God forbid they skate difficult programs they can't nail perfectly on the first outing.

      They've given up? Says who?

      I don't understand all of this "they should just retire!" stuff. Seriously? Maybe you should try thinking like a competitive athlete instead of like an armchair quarterback who'll surrender at the first sign of adversity.

      Delete
    3. If the ISU is counting on the rivalry for ratings, where's the ratings?

      I realize the blog can be said to have a bias, but apart from their core fans I don't see DW as a widely popular team, not compared to other popular skaters the US has had.

      Delete
  17. You can never make a 1st. Impression twice. Just saying. The OGM has already been decided. We all know that # Truth.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. V/M don't need to make a first impression. They've Olympic Champions. The judges already know that.

      Try again.

      Delete
    2. Nothing is ever guaranteed in sports. #actualtruth

      Delete
    3. I agree with 8:28 pm - even though the fix may be in...it ain't over until the fat lady sings....

      Delete
  18. Is hoping Tessa & Scott attend some events @Skate America this weekend to support some of their friends. I hope we get some pictures if so.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I certainly hope they aren't. DW are going to be gifted huge, undeserved scores. VM, with their competition jitters as of late, don't need to see that happen live and in person.

      Delete
    2. DW are going to get monster scores. That's a given. It's an Olympic year, and it's DW.

      Delete
    3. Well, yes, it's a given, but I maintain it's probably not best to be there live at SA to watch it happen a week before their next competition.

      Delete
    4. praying that d/w dont even break 70 in the sd even tho its not going happen and we might as well be watching nats

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    5. There's a whole season yet to come. Even with the high scores DW usually get at Skate America I'm going to wait and see how things unfold. It's too early to make predictions as to any final outcome.

      Delete
  19. http://t.co/wpEQM3WJvh A must watch.

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  20. Interesting choice of words here to describe D/W:

    Until then, Moir says he and Virtue will not be focusing on their rivals’ progress, only their own.

    “You can’t let those demons get you. You can’t be looking over your shoulder. You’ve just got to keep going and pushing forward,” Moir said.


    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/healthy-virtue-and-moir-eager-to-defend-olympic-gold-medal/article14899953/

    ReplyDelete
  21. At least he says "looking over their shoulder" - i.e., DW are behind them. But it takes more than talk to stop the demons from getting you - you have to skate like they're not getting to you. I think the reality is there are things they can't control, and they have to make their best peace with it.

    And I know it's not helping, but the double standards with the tech caller aren't something they can look at a video and address. If a tech caller is always told to look more closely at VM and just give DW a bye, they can't do anything about it.

    I've been thinking a bit about CoP. When it comes to a "sustaining an edge" out of a twizzle, DW at best pay glancing heed to that feature, as always observing the letter and not the spirit of CoP. At Worlds, when Tessa put her foot down, if her exit edge was still sustained longer than DW's, is it proper to take a deduction? What if when VM fall short of their intentions, their elements are still of higher quality than DW's? How does CoP take into account that DW's programs BUILD IN the glitches, the two footing, the sloppiness. I rewatched DW's change edge spiral across the ice from previous - that was a freaking mess. Their edges weren't tracking each other at all. If VM did that not only critics but fans would jump on it. How does CoP not account for things like that.

    And, as I and others have mentioned, if Patrick Chan can still pull the scores in because of his bladework in between elements and his bladework setting up elements and out of elements, how is this not happening in ice dance? The message from the ISU is they don't care how VM skate. And that's not even addressing whether appropriate levels of difficulty are actually awarded to DW's clutch and climb and pelvis splat, blade rocking and two footed dragging and sliding into and out of them lifts, the way the bodies reinfoce the centers of gravity and the way the arms pin themselves to each other.

    ReplyDelete
  22. An intriguing thought...what would DW ubers say if videos of their programs were posted with subtitles or counters of how many times they did crossovers, hops, random walking?

    I believe that as fans of VM (or even pure and elegant ice dancing), we need to help turn the tide of public opinion by using #sochigold to tag VM posts, liking on Facebook and Youtube, commenting on forums, TSL, icenetwork, etc...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. :) It's not exactly what you suggested, but I've already started a project of video V/M and D/W comparisons. Was just about to post them over here, since I assume some blog readers might be interested.

      http://youtu.be/8vqwjJl5osA
      http://youtu.be/dCWxzvY-JCc

      There is a hop count in the second one - and something I realized is that it's not that D/W have a ton more hops per se (depends on the program), it's that they have stupid and lazy hops rather than purposeful or skating-related hops. I tried to categorize them in a more detailed way, but it got ridiculously complicated, so I used the "keep in mind" bit to remind people to actually watch what's happening when hops occur. But I'm not going to do too much picking apart of D/W's skating directly, because I think the comparison itself makes quite a strong point, and I don't want these videos immediately written off as me having an agenda. Although, I would love to see a D/W uber say that comparing the programs this way is biased somehow.

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    2. Thanks for sharing these links. Seeing each team's elements side-by-side really highlights how crappy D/W's elements are. It is expecially noticeable with the step sequences....the are NEVER in face-to-face dance hold.

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    3. OMG, in the free dance you can drive a truck through their bodies. They're skating face to face at arm's length most of the time, only use a dance hold to transition into another wide open, little kid at group skating lesson hold.

      Delete
  23. D/W are the opposite of elegant:

    "...and the Americans' programs showed a level of sophistication the Canadians simply could not match."

    Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/10/17/5254663/davis-white-not-talking-about.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

    Are you fucking kidding me???

    http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/10/17/5254663/davis-white-not-talking-about.html?rh=1

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sophistication is not a word I would associate with D/W...

      Delete
    2. Oh my God, that woman is writing about Notre Dame and Carmen and Giselle versus Dance goes on, and declaring that DW's programs showed a sophistication that VM couldn't match. She's being specific about THOSE programs. Nobody who knew so little about football or any real sport would be allowed to write about it but the ignorant get to write about figure skating all the time, and with a tone of authority. Furthermore, VM had errors in both programs and THAT is why it was a 4 point margin, not to mention the unearned 77 points for DW in the short program.

      Delete
  24. So not only are D/W ripping off and watering down lifts from V/M, they're also ripping off and watering down lifts from the Shibs; they've changed their last lift to some monstrosity:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8_alRZ2QOM&feature=youtu.be

    Shibs in 2013:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLxkryl5BaM

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    Replies
    1. Unfortunately Meryl Davis is just limited in her natural innate ability to perform graceful movements. So no matter how much "sophistication" is built into the choreography, her movements appear awkward and unnatural.

      Delete
    2. they really cleaned up their lifts though it looks less ugly

      Delete
    3. also that video made me realize how slow d/w are when they're actually doing real choreography

      Delete
    4. If you slow it down Charlie isn't any better. Charlie always, always, clearly just wants to hockey skate out there. His only move is flinging his arms up and out. That's it for choreography and Charlie White. The snow is flying from his blades. I don't see how he's any better an ice dancer than Meryl.

      Delete
  25. You are really really crazy. Go to a therapist. You have an obsessive disorder and no life. Do you work for a living?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 8:56
      Let me guess. You don't have any first-hand, personal knowledge of the blogger. You just happen to be mad that people have certain opinions. In the case of the blog's main premise, both blogger and many others agree on the facts.

      You are so upset ... Maybe you need therapy.

      Delete
    2. Someone who lets a blog upset them probably needs to get out of the house.

      Isn't that how this dialogue works?

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  26. 75.70 for DW's SD tonight.

    Why are VM even bothering this season?

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    Replies
    1. What, only 75.70? This is skate america, after all why not just give them 80.

      Delete
    2. And C&L got 69, better than V&M at Finlandia, with all level 4 elements. Too bad V&M did not go to him. C&L certainly aren't better skaters than V&M yet Igor got them a level 4 step sequence (whether by hook or by crook).

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    3. marina really did screw v/m. anyways the only reason why c/l are getting monster scores is because of igor's politcking. i hope weapo beat them their 42nd st has more character.

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    4. anyways it seems like v/m rly are done. i don't seem them rising from the ashes anytime soon

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    5. Conveniently, SC will have a "strict panel" and V&M might nudge up to 69ish. D&W's other event, and probably Bobrova Soloviev's, will have more generous callers.

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    6. Of course they're done. Stick a fork in them. It doesn't matter how well they skate, they're not going to be allowed to get close to DW.

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    7. Some idiot over on Goldenshit is already declaring C/L as faves for the silver, and I'm sure that same idiot will declare B/S as faves for bronze.

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    8. "Why are VM even bothering this season?"

      V/M have some of the worst fans I've ever seen. All they do is kick the team when its down. You're right. With fans like these, it would be best for V/M to quit skating and focus on something else.

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    9. Unless Virtue and Moir meltdown, and unless the judges intend on giving DW the gold in the in-your-face manner of ice dance corruption of yore, DW is going to have to step it up to remain prohibitive favorites because that was not good. The sophistication meme is as hollow as it gets - everyone in the stands can see it. One reason the DW hustle has worked in the past is the DW hustle. They're hustling out there. Leaping, swinging, flinging, twinkling, scampering, twirling, sliding. Everything but skating, but it's on ice, and ice is slippery, so it's dangerous and super hard!

      Very busy, very frantic, gosh, that must mean they're doing the hardest stuff and are the best. That allows the judges to blow up DW's scores without being called to account by the media or the public.

      When they bob up and down, skating wide apart, not covering ice, executing slow twizzles, showing no musicality, and the program is fairly empty, it's harder to pull the hustle off, particularly at an Olympic games.

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    10. "unless the judges intend on giving DW the gold in the in-your-face manner of ice dance corruption of yore,"

      Eh. I think that's exactly the intent. Only I can't remember an Olympics as corrupt as Sochi portends to be.

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    11. Actually, what I'd look at isn't how highly the other teams were scored, but how, for this event, DW actually were lowballed. I think they were scored as highly as the judging panel felt they could get away with, and that was six points ahead of C/L - not very high. Fascinating that the Shibs, who skated better - not just performed better, skated better - than DW, were eight points below C/L.

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    12. Yes, that is the intent, but it seems to me DW had to live up to their end of the bargain and have all of the fig leaves in place in their choreography.

      It's pretty blatant that neither the content nor the choreography is there, and the feeble twizzles are in your face.

      Delete
  27. cant wait for oc to deconstruct d/w's pseudo quickstep

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  28. i am now more convinced the usfsa and skate canada made a deal - they will give d/w the gold as long as pchan wins gold. that can explain why v/m keep on getting lowballed and why lysachek keeps on withdrawing from competitions.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So someone on FSU just broke down the US teams. The Shibs and DW are not that far apart except for the Finnstep itself - a whole 5 points and change. How the hell does a team with the same coaching staff and from the same country get that much of a disparity - especially since Maia and Alex are quick on their feet...and all of a sudden C/L who did not do any senior Bs - get level 4's...on a compulsory pattern that is supposedly difficult..wth

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    2. I doubt it as quadless Lysacek with aging body isn't a threat to any medal contender in Sochi. That said I do agree there is some kind of politicking happening behind DW overscoring.

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    3. That was a really desultory outing by DW. Tanith just droned on about their refinement. Last year, they pretended they had chemistry that equaled or trumped Virtue and Moir's chemistry. This year they're pretending they have a sophistication the Canadians can't match. They don't lack hubris.

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    4. c/l's sd looked sloppier than v/m's esp. the pattern how the hell did they get a higher score?? oh wait i know the answer - igor's politicking. thats how c/b were also able to beat w/p at wtt and look how rough c/b skate.

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    5. i will also like to add that c/l made similar mistakes as v/m - guess who got dinged more. either the isu hates v/m or the judges are on crack.

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    6. Scott made the ISU hate V/M with his big assed mouth. If I were Tessa I would have retired. Now they are just making fools of themselves competing knowing tjey will finish in 2nd. All season. BLAME SCOTT.

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    7. Anon at 1:00 am - oh please let's not generalize. Trankov and Chan have also been known to have strong opinions...the difference is that V/T and Chan have the full support of their respective federations. I am not saying that Scott is a saint but I think his comments have blown out proportion. I also would like to say that Scott and Tessa have always been gracious about their competitors..when was the last time D/W have complimented another team...lastly, I think another mistake that was done by VM particularly Tessa was to lay it on thick in interviews about her injury and how she overcame it...In the later interviews in 2010 - it came off a bit superwomanish and in the end may have come off as degrading her competitors meaning that if I can compete with pain and win...can you imagine what I can do when I am totally healthy...I know she meant to be inspirational and it was but then she may have crossed the line with the ISU...

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  29. Anon at 9:50 pm - I agree that Lysacek if he were to compete would not be in the top 3. Let's see what this season brings and even if VM don't win - I just want them to be happy with their skating and be injury free.

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  30. DW are not even dancing. They have no rhythm whatsoever. That is supposed to matter in the SD especially. This judging is disgraceful.

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    Replies
    1. Even one of their own ubers over on FSU was complaining that their new SD lift is ripped off from Tobias/Dev lift. Usually, their ubers are falling over themselves over everything they do.

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    2. VM ubers are stressing right now, not because they've lost faith in their team, but because of the fixed scoring, so there is alot of angst right now. There have recently been fake "fans" who are posting with the sole purpose of undermining VM with thinly veiled criticisms.

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  31. While we are here discussing this very interesting things (75 for the sd is really ...) ...Scott is assgrabbing cassandra in her fb profile pic just the week before skate canada...as always

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    Replies
    1. 3:08am-- Eh, who cares.

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    2. They always make a huge show of the sham when they compete in Canada. They're pitiful. Of course it's the ass grab because they were called out on the gross. The Moir reaction is always to roll even more in the gutter.

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    3. "They always make a huge show of the sham when they compete in Canada."

      They can't possibly be shamming for the sake of the ardent, committed fans. Everyone here knows it's fake and the ones who believe VM's narratives could care less about their supposed off-ice SO's.

      So who are they aiming these pictures at, exactly? And why more OTT grossness aimed at the Canadian public? No matter what they think their rationales are, this is as you describe. The gutter. Such a lovely gift to VM's legacy.

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