It's not random. It doesn't work like that.
And not for nothing, but let's remember a triple play of family events right after the Olympics last time and consider how it's setting up right after the Olympics this time. That didn't stop Scott from putting the Jessica sham on blast or Je taiming Jessica on facebook.
P.S. - this just occurred to me, so file it under the category of "Slow-witted":
Scott and Tessa could be being cagey about their retirement plans in order to keep the spotlight on themselves and Moirville. Yes, I think they want to stay in, but there's the need to stay relevant as well. Moirville went big the past two seasons, and went grabby. But Moirville isn't really good at saying "That's enough." Keeping the issue open keeps VM (and Moirville) in the spotlight.
Look at Shannon Woodhouse's follow-up:
Look at that follow up. Even "good friends" is a lot to see when you're watching from another table. What's the "can't say more than that." There's more to say but I can't say on twitter? Or couldn't tell if it was more?
This is such b.s. Imagine you work in an institution and at the next table is someone else who works there, dining with her well-known son, her husband and a guest. You get on twitter and tell the world the son is there with a well-known guest, and you put your name on that tweet. You don't ask permission to tell the world your colleague's business or her son's business. You know it's just fine you're putting news about a colleague onto the cybersphere. When a stranger on twitter follows up with a question, you are happy to expand and you are unnecessarily cryptic about the status of the famous son and his friend. Shannon Woodhouse is a freaking adult, a grown person, not somebody who just left school. This was a set up.
Please with this.
P.S. - Recapping DWTS tomorrow night - am not watching in real time so will wait til the videos are up on abc.com and elsewhere. I do know the scores so far - Meryl on top of the leaderboard. I'm anxious to see if it's the routine or the dancing (Maks got Willa Ford tens for Foxtrot once so it's not always dancing. But if he got Meryl to really do it, good for them. With Willa he pretty much held her up.)
I think there's bizarre score inflation for this season. I recently checked out the season where Zendaya/Val danced and that team got 8s for better stuff than they're giving 9s and 10s for this season. Maybe they're inspired by DW's ice dance career.
Kaitlyn is in a long-term relationship with a fellow curler. Why would she want to become involved in Scott and Tessa's mess? Also is Tessa pregnant again because either she's gained some weight and it went straight to her chest or...
ReplyDeleteThey would be crazy to have another baby just now when there's still so much attention on them and they're about to go on tour. But, hey, when has that ever stopped them?
Deleteexactly... it makes no sense. why would she ruin her long term relationship?
DeleteWe don't know her (KL's) actual status.
DeleteAs to questions about Tessa, I don't know at this time, but as I said, the pattern is repeating and they have only one setting - replay. Everything else in Moirville is setting up the same way as last time (read between the lines with that one). They are definitely married and already have one child. If they decide to go to 2018 this is the window. I did notice that in the selfie from the train, Tessa had busted out the huge extended shoulder pads again. If speculation is on point, now's the time to set some silhouettes she can consistently maintain months on end no matter what's happening below the ledge.
I will take cyber bets about Kaitlyn Law and SM, except I don't know what should be bet. Virtual money is no fun.
oc
Lawes relationship with DJ Kidby goes back to at least 2011 and was in the press a month ago. It's a long-term, public, not-a-secret relationship. It seems like the girl gets noticed plenty all on her own by the Canadian public. Curling may not be big in the US, but it is in Canada. She seems like a very unlikely candidate for sham gf.
DeleteIf I'm not mistaken, the night of March 8 was the night the Olympians were honored at the Leafs game and Scott was spotted out in a big group of Olympians that included, among others, Patrick Chan. Scott has also every once in a blue moon been spotted out in non-sham capacity.
At this point, I'm betting on this being benign and not part of the sham.
Okay 11:40, but what should we bet?
DeleteBecause it's two separate tweets from a restaurant, a status update from Cowboys on March 8, and the Ilderton Jets game.
I'm sure Kaitlyn Laws is well known, but the thing is, Scott is out and about all the time and now there's 4 instances of him with Kaitlyn versus him with whomever else, and same for her. It's not like a big pattern of I saw Kaitlyn here, I saw Kaitlyn there, I saw her with Scott Moir, I saw her with this other athlete, and then over here.
So what do you want to bet? I'm willing to be wrong, but I'm taking a side here.
Also, curious - are you coming at this from any particular point of view such as assumptions/regard for Kaitlyn Lawes or just don't think it points at sham no matter who the woman may have been?
oc
Yes, I agree with you anon 11.40...and the day before Kaitlyn was cheering her boyfriend. Probably we will have soon another girlfriend...but not this one
DeleteI don't know what to bet either. It's online. ;)
DeleteThe March 8 status update was not from Cowboys. That was the night that the big group of Olympians was at the Toronto Maple Leafs game and there were other mentions of various Olympians being out at a bar in Toronto that night, including Scott and Patrick Chan. (I'm trying to find the tweets, but they're buried pretty far back.)
I come at this with the context of the girl's specific background being important and that background being her in a very long-term public relationship that's been recently mentioned in press. This girl has a relationship and doesn't need to piggyback on to anyone to get her own exposure or perks (like Jess, Cass, Fedor, and Semple did).
Got it, but at the same time, the screen cap that says "cowboys" up there, dated March 8, somehow failed to mention all of the other Olympians at the bar and only mentioned KL and SM. That's not fishy?
Deleteoc
It's not necessarily fish to me. Is it not possible for the band to have met one and the other?
DeleteThe screencap says "The Coveralls Band" and if you go to facebook, they mentioned playing in the Rose and Crown, which is in Toronto.
I agree with 11:58. There will probably be another sham gf, but I don't think this one was it. For heaven's sakes, she was cheering on her bf the day before.
@10:58, I'm 11:40 and 12:06, but I wanted to respond separately. If VM are thinking they're going to go on to 2018 and do not want an 8 year gap between their kids, this is actually the not crazy time to have their second. The timing would also be beneficial in hopefully flushing DW out of this sport. If VM competed in 14-15, then so would DW. If DW are out for a year, year and a half, IMO, and hopefully not just wishful thinking, they're less likely to come back. My guess is that it's a lot easier for VM to come back after a year off than DW in terms of physical fitness and stamina to complete a program. I'm not convinced that Charlie, at least, is not the fittest of fiddles to begin with.
DeleteMy guess is that the speculation is on point, and I also think this one is going to be more obvious than the last one, but that the fandom will proceed as they did with the first so they'll get away with it.
It's not about who met who, it's that in a very short period of time are these social media messages zooming in on Scott and Kaitlyn, extracting them from the other Olympians. But hey, I'll just stake out my position over here, and if I'm wrong I'm wrong. I know benefit of the doubt has always been a waste of time before, but I understand this girl is a different deal to many people, a different story than Jessica and Cassandra, and to them, the difference is critical. So we'll see.
DeleteA few more thoughts - may as well put them out there before the off-basedness shows itself. It would be nice if those who think there's no way it's sham were correct. Not because VM wouldn't come up with someone else, but it would be nice to believe someone like KL wouldn't participate. However:
Delete1. People can still have boyfriends while shamming. Just like people can have wives while shamming. Nobody needs to give up their boyfriend to be Scott Moir's pretend girlfriend. And people can remain friends after "breaking up" and still hang out and cheer each other on (to wit: D&D). Especially if you're a member of women's curling and your bf or ex is on men's curling.
2. Jessica was highish profile, at least among the fandom. Cassandra was zzzzzzzzz. After she appeared on the reality show, she was even more zzzzzzzzzzzz. Maybe Moirville seeks somebody with more heat, more "controversy". Look at D&D fans lamenting that Jessica was dating Scott, and vice versa.
That's all for now. If there's more to it we'll get more soon enough.
Anon 11.58 here...sorry but I was wrong about Lawes cheering her boyfriend...it's a news from last year
DeleteIt looks like Kaitlyn's bf (or ex bf) had his birthday during the time she was in Ilderton/London (March 23-24). I'm just sayin'.
DeleteJust out of curiosity, how do people know that the Olympians went out together in Toronto after the Leafs game?
Or pretend ex-bf (see "Bryce Davison").
Deleteoc
OC, I get why Lawes shamming doesn't mean she has to end her true relationship. I just don't see why she would bother to participate because "dating" Scott means either a) she is seen as a cheating slut, or b) she has to pretend she is no longer with a guy she has been publicly dating for years.
DeleteJessica is a different story, because Skate Canada had input there. I don't get the motive for Lawes, but there could of course be something we're missing.
Anon at 12:06 pm - with regards to the March 8 game in Toronto honouring the Olympians - Charlie Moir was also there...
ReplyDeleteBut like you - I have to admit that it's strange that Lawes would be hanging around London, Ontario...because if anything her popularity will continue to grow and I would imagine that she will be curling at an elite level for at least another 10-12 years. And a long distance relationship especially when she is playing during weekends?
12:30PM it is not a REAL long distance relationship. It's not a relationship if it's a sham. It's a photo op. Photos are taken and banked, and dropped when they want to jerk people's chains.
DeleteMoirs were around all the time around Jessica. She saw almost more of them than she did Scott (a lot more, actually). Moirs were also around and out and about when it was Cassandra (see Cassandra's instagram posing with ma and pa Moir in Paris). I believe Joe, Charlie and Danny may have been there when Scott posed with CH for a couple of her profile pic photos.
The family being there is more on the "sham" side than the not sham side. Scott does not act like a couple with these people in public. the family and friends are there as buffers. He does all the canoodling and b.s. FOR THE CAMERA. Not live action in 3D. That's likely why there is often family around, so it looks like a family/friends (and gf) get together and any onlookers aren't wondering why it's only Scott and his gf but they're not holding hands or acting close.
Speaking of photos:
Deletehttp://fbcdn-photos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-0/1797423_507550339350372_1156516651_n.jpg
hmmmmm...makes you think, doesn't it? :)
Yeah, that's a totally logical place for a single curler among a whole group of partying Olympians to show up. Who doesn't love the ISC?
DeleteI think the ISC is all over this too - Cassandra at the ISC doesn't bring attention, Kaitlyn does. It's post-Sochi. The ISC is probably desperate and doesn't want to let go of what it sees as its cash cow. Must keep priming the pump.
DeleteCouple things: "Cowboys" (typed by me) was a typo - meant "Coveralls".
ReplyDeleteBut to repeat, why would people say things like "Why would [Kaitlyn] ruin her long-term relationship to sham with Scott?" "Sham" means fake. If she did it, she wouldn't be a sort of girlfriend, nor a semi-one, nor in a triangle with Tessa. It would be fake. There would be no need to "ruin" her relationship with her long term bf.
Just last month the hot and heavy TV-show GF went with the Moirs to Sochi, and now Scott has a new GF? Please. Exactly when were they supposed to form a (real) relationship? While Tessa and Scott have been making the interview rounds and creating and practicing new programs for SOI? Can these people do anything that comes across believable? No.
ReplyDeleteIt looks to me Kaitlyn may have broken up with her BF and Scott stepped in with a mutually beneficial scheme. She gets to show the ex that he doesn't matter/she's wanted by a hot guy. Scott gets....we all know what's going on here.
The question is rather why was Cassandra dumped? I also want to know how they think the fans will keep buying their stories. They are increasingly ridiculous and obviously fake.
She gets to show the ex he doesn't matter/she's wanted by a hot guy by shamming with a married man who has a kid with his wife? I'll show you DJ!
Delete2:00 PM - I think it's beyond obvious they don't care if fans buy their stories or not. If anything it's ha ha you know we're lying but watch us ramp it up and you can't call us out because nobody in the media will blow our cover.
DeleteThey don't care. I'd go further and say the whole thing has warped to the point where they like that people know and yet the media still enables them. Shows how powerless fans are.
I could imagine they dumped Cass so abruptly because the fans refused to show any reaction to her on screen. Even the casual fans who aren't in on the sham gave her the cold shoulder and simply pretended she doesn't exist. A sham becomes kind of useless if nobody is willing to pay attention to it.
DeleteI don't think the Cass dumpage had anything to do with the fans. They don't care about the fans. I think it's just Tessa got tired of her and wanted a new playmate.
DeleteI have a genuine question. I've been through most of the blog, but not all, so I apologize if this has been discussed at length already.
ReplyDeleteIs there anything to be done by anyone around this blog to expose the sham on a larger scale (without overly harming the privacy of the child)? I know I'm not the only one who just wants the whole thing to be over with...
Nope. Only if the tabloids got hold of it, and there aren't any big tabloids in Canada, I think. Most of the press frame it so they're not directly shamming themselves, but rather putting it on Scott and Tessa and playing Scott and Tessa's rules (which include not asking them inconvenient questions such as "what about the rumor you're married"/"have a daughter". ). It's always peurile shit like "dating".
Deletethat's not true of all media though. Steve Milton and Rosie DiManno have both said in the first person, referencing only their own "knowledge" in how it was expressed, that the two are not a couple. There is no way Rosie DiManno isn't proactively lying on their behalf. Milton is either stupid or doign the same, and I lean to the latter.
The sham is already exposed. Hundreds of people know it to be a sham. Tessa and Scott don't care. Look -- they just filmed a reality show where they pretended that they have problems with their "connection", and that Scott is in a relationship with another woman, and then they went out onto Olympic ice and made out every chance they had. Is that the behavior of normal people? The behavior of two people who are hiding behind a sham? No. They aren't hiding behind anything. They're just having fun. They know they could go have sex out on the ice and fans will say it didn't happen. That's what they enjoy.
Delete9:32 PM - that's absolutely true, but I imagine the question is - is there any way they can be exposed officially, so they'd have to knock it off. After all, if a news outlet or journalist said, look, they're married, they have a child, the platonic stuff is a hoax (or whatever they called it, which would be spun as softer than a hoax), and if that outlet were legitimate, then the rest of the media would have to cop to it, even if they were pretending to learn about it themselves for the first time. But that's not going to happen, so the media and VM can continue to play this game with each other, using us as a scapegoat.
DeleteAs long as the media pretends along with them, they get to grandstand like this, KNOWING that the people they pitch it towards know Cassandra isn't a real girlfriend, know KL is just more bullshit. There has been power tripping in this from almost day one. Here, it seems the power tripping is about just flaunting the fact that they can do it, that everybody knows it's a lie, and the media doesn't care that everybody knows it's a lie, the media is on their "side" so to speak.
It's all show business. Show business is promotion. Look at DWTs. It's an hour long product placement and brand placement, essentially. Scott and Tessa give an interview and promote whatever, the media outlet has content.
Cassandra, I think, had a purpose and that was strictly to fill in for the 'documentary'. In the first episode, when T and S are at the CNE playing whack-a-mole, it is timed as 'one year earlier', making it late August 2012 (I doubled checked and this is when they were there). When did Cassandra supposedly enter the scene? August 2012, with the official acknowledgement November 2012, no? That August 2012 is the beginning of the series indicates the time window in which they decided to go ahead with the series, and with more intensive filming to begin August of 2013, they had plenty of time to establish the 'relationship' with Cassandra as 'legitimate'.When does she exit stage right? At the end of the Sochi Olympics, at the close of the 'purpose' of the series. Rather tidy timings, me thinks.
ReplyDeleteThat makes total sense 2:18. If he'd continued with Jessica the logistics of the reality show would have been a pain in the neck. So after they've got the reality show set up they put a London woman in place because that just makes the narrative (and filming logistics) tidier. She enters August 2012 as you say, which is when she appeared on twitter, exactly at the earliest date the reality show introduceds us to Scott and Tessa. And then exits after Sochi, complete with supposed rumors, egged on by Patrick Chan (and who knows if that's a planted story or something he did) that Scott/Cassandra actually broke up prior to Sochi but she couldn't refund her ticket. I think you've nailed it.
Delete2:18
DeleteIt is tidy timings, isn't it. It makes complete sense.
It's rather hilarious not one month goes by without Scott having a new sweetie. Come on, who is convinced? Three times in a row same patterns. What becomes the most tiresome are the fans who cling to their ideal that VM are telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The lies are in our face, more brazen every time.
Loving the sighting with Mama and Papa Moir. That's their way of sealing the deal. Bwahahahahaha.
It's so patently false.
Wow . . . . I just. Um. I've got to say, I've been a fan of Tessa and Scott for a while, mostly during Olympic years and off-and-on in between (not an off-and-on fan, just off-and-on in how I keep up with them in non-Olympic years). Anyway, I've known about the this blog pretty much since it first started and at first I came here thinking it was all crazy but then thinking maybe not. After this Olympic run, I came back and over the last few weeks have read the entire blog. And . . . . I mean, I used to be an English teacher so I'll put it this way: When a narrative doesn't seem to make sense on the surface, you look at the subtext. There can be a lot of theories, obviously, when reading subtext, but as a general rule, if your subtextual theory allows the narrative to make sense, you're on the right track.
ReplyDeleteAnd what you're saying makes all of this shit make sense. Obviously, lacking hard tangible proof, most people will say "That's crazy." I'm still not sold on the child bit, mostly because she never really looked all that pregnant to me (not that incredibly fit athletes always look "all that pregnant"), and because I still can't wrap my head around hiding a child, which is much harder than hiding a relationship. Maybe I just want that part to not be true, who knows.
One day, if and when it all comes out, someone could write a fascinating psychology dissertation on the whole thing. I mean, I guess I understand wanting to be private, and I guess that's how it started, especially given that they were so young at the time: they wanted to deflect those awkward questions and their parents were probably worried about it too. "Yes, we allow our underage children to live, travel, and train together and date too . . . . and all that that implies. No, we don't have a problem with our barely-not-teenage children getting married, since they've been in love for years, and no we don't want to talk about it." I even get creating a little sham to start with, since any idiot with two brain cells and eyes can SEE it. I mean, my husband, who watched the entire Olympic figure skating competition with me and generally could not give two shits about it, remarked on it. "They're together right?" "No, they say they're not." "They have to be. They'll never have that connection with anyone else. They say they've NEVER been together? That's a lie, they're clearly in love." I kid you not, he went on and on about it. Never once mentioned it about another figure-skating couple. So I get creating the sham.
So I guess they just felt like they had to continue with it? Especially getting pregnant right after the Olympics? (I know, I know, I said I wasn't sold on that . . . . but it makes sense to continue the sham instead of come clean at that point.) The way it's escalated though and the TV show . . . . .
So what I'm saying, after all that rambling, is that my mind has just been blown because the 3-time repeat of pattern behavior has finally convinced me that this thing is real and I've given in lol. I mean, do they NEED it at this point? Do they get off on it? Are they creepy for doing it and are we creepy for realizing they're doing it and reading and talking about it? Sorry, just having a little bit of a moment here -- and to think this all started with me just liking some ice dance couple's skating at Worlds one year and thinking they were adorable . . . . .
I get exactly where you're coming from 2:46. I didn't believe it either because it's so outrageous but when there is so much weird shit around, you can't help but start to question everything. And while the blogger hasn't offered proof about the child (and I absolutely stand by their right not to do that), there's plenty proof about other lies they've told. Once you know that stuff, you're not quite so ready to buy what they're selling.
Delete"I still can't wrap my head around hiding a child, which is much harder than hiding a relationship. Maybe I just want that part to not be true, who knows. "
Deletethey're not "hiding" the relationship or the child. People who go on and on (not you, but others) about hiding a kid - that child has likely been at every single competition they could have her attend and how would fans know whose child she was? We're not behind the scenes and unless she's being carried around by a publicly known Moir or Virtue, we'd have no clue. A lot of people are close to Scott and Tessa and lack any type of public profile.
Those who know they're married include many fans, pretty much the entire elite figure skating community, and the major people who comment/report on figure skating. They know about the kid too. So it's not hiding. It's simply not REPORTING it, which is different. It's not as hard as people may think.
oc
2:46, I get where you're coming from too.
DeleteFor me, I finally realized I was twisting like a pretzel, trying to make VM's narratives fit reality. To see things through the lens of sham/they're married makes everything fall into place. It makes sense.
Ironically, one of the things that cemented my conclusion they were indeed a couple was Tessa being pregnant in 2010. I was following events closely back then, pm'ing with a few other fans. It was obvious Tessa was going through gradual body changes, and then when they reappeared in time for 4CC 2011, voila, Tessa was (almost) back to normal. Nothing made sense to me but a pregnancy. Since then I've gone back dozens of times to reexamine the videos and photos from that time, thinking I might see something differently. But no. In fact, every time I go back to look it's more than obvious (to me) Tessa was pregnant.
I do agree with those who say there has been no evidence of a child in their lives. However, I'm convinced beyond a doubt there was a pregnancy. Therefore, there is a child. Period.
By the way, all this observation was before there was any blog. To me, someone appearing on the internet chronicling the sham and saying they knew for sure these were the facts was just a confirmation of what I was already sure was the truth.
There's not a single thing that has happened since 2010 that debunks the premise that Scott and Tessa are married with a child. On the contrary. Then you get ridiculous things like this latest lunacy - Scott 3-peating the sham patterns. I'd say everything continually proves what is real and what is not. This blog is not lying. VM/Moirville are lying.
2:46, when you say: "At first I came here thinking it was all crazy but then thinking maybe not."
DeleteIt's crazy. But true. I started the blog not because they were hiding their status and shamming, but because they were being assholes to the fans on social media.They would set the bait in the legit media and then switch in social media.They were meanspirited and used fans' earnest interest and need to be appreciated against them, made fans feel foolish and hurt, and kept doing it. And when fans tried to manage their expectations and focus on the skating, Moirville did their best to get them worked up again and excited.They were jerks.The blog started out sort of hinting and implying in a "you know what I'm talking about if you know what I'm talking about!" way, but as it went on the blog got direct. It all began not because of the sham but because they treated fans badly, used fan interest in them as sport, and acted as if it's not possible to be called out or get push back on the web. But it is.
"I'm still not sold on the child bit, mostly because she never really looked all that pregnant to me (not that incredibly fit athletes always look "all that pregnant"), and because I still can't wrap my head around hiding a child, which is much harder than hiding a relationship."
Neither is that difficult if you understand that they don't hide either one. If you have some sort of connection with figure skating (not being a groupie, but some other connection) you are able to learn this yourself. It's definitely not a secret. It's just unreported because everyone who covers skating doesn't report it and just goes along. But frankly, while I understand not "exposing" the story (as a good excuse could always be that they're skaters first and it's about the skating, not their lives or relationship - as ridiculous as that is when it comes to relationship-peddling Virtue Moir) - I do not understand the many in the media who have proactively helped them lie. Keeping your mouth shut and employing easy workarounds is one thing. Working in journalism or even entertainment media and pushing an outright hoax on the public is something else. I don't get Rosie DiManno, Jian Ghomeshi, Steve Milton. Ryan Pyette used to be right in there with that crowd until this past season he didn't write anything about them without putting it in quotes. If VM coughed, he put quotes around it. He didn't verify or put his own name to anything that came out of their mouths. I don't get P.J. Kwong talking about the reality show when what she saw of it she knows told us nothing about the skating or their lives and was another package to hoax the public.
DeleteI do get their Federation helping them hoax, which they did in plain sight in 2009-2010, Barb MacDonald, Debbi Wilkes, Mike Slipchuk and high-ish profile volunteers like Debbie Mac. Deploying personnel to wrangle Jessica when she made sham appearances at competitions. Skate Canada appears to have backed off but they spent years not just selling it and managing it, but promoting it and putting SC resources onto it.
I get the skaters cooperating, especially the ones who came up with Scott and Tessa. I do lose a little of my faith in humanity when someone I admire as much as I admire Tracy Wilson holds out the microphone and says 'Describe your relationship.'
I kind of don't need a psychological profile on Virtue Moir. They come from unique circumstances - an entire town built around skating and Scott's folks controlling the skating, so they're the big fish in the town. Virtue and Moir are everything there and have been since they were kids. Virtue and Moir are that town's commodity to own and control - they don't want to "share" with fans, which would mean sharing reality, sharing information. They want to use it the way they use it, as a tool, as entertainment, as sport, as power.
It's the others I've mentioned - what is up with them. Where's the line. They're showing their asses for sure, because they passed the point of any plausible rationale a long time ago.
"I do not understand the many in the media who have proactively helped them lie."
DeleteWhat don't you understand? These are the same people who have proactively allowed the ISU to lie and proactively promoted the fiction that D/W are equal to or better than V/M as skaters. There's nothing new here. That's the way figure skating culture works.
+1. Actually, it's not just the media. It's also the fans. There are literally hundreds of people who know all about V/M, have seen their kid, etc. And yet -- not a single person posts a picture of the three of them in a public place. No one has posted a singe "real" wedding photo, even though they float around. The only discussion that takes place of the sham happens on this website, where everyone can be anonymous. Why do the fans enable Tessa and Scott so much? For the same reasons the media enables them. It's fun to be in on a secret. To speak in code on twitter. To pretend to be outraged. If someone were really outraged and wanted the sham to end, they could bust this thing open immediately. You don't need a major tabloid to do it. That's the power of social media, as OC has said countless times. It will never ever happen though, because letting questionable shit happen is the essence of figure skating culture.
Delete"Do they get off on it?"
DeleteTessa does for sure. The grosser the lie, the more her eyes sparkle. See the Marilyn Denis green room footage, the boat ride in Paris, the entire reality show -- it's fascinating.
6:57, many in the media who "proactively allowed the ISU to lie" are media types like Milton and Dimanno who don't know an edge from a flat. They're not figure skating culture. They think VM are more elegant or some other quality a bit better than DW and think DW are just second best or a cut below but still do a great job. That's not proactively helping the ISU lie; that's not knowing your job or anything about the subject you're covering.
DeleteI understand Kwong, I guess. But those outside the sport, like Jian Ghomeshi, what the fuck. He's an entertainer, not a journalist or performer, but still, he went out of his way. Or Steve Milton, who has been recognized for journalism in football. When it comes to ice dance he figures it's okay to be a personal flunky for a couple of figure skaters, the guy who turns their lies to prose? He's not "figure skating culture."
I was disappointed in Wilson many times because she's always managed to finesse her way around tricky topics and the past two years of this past quad she failed.
oc
I agree with 7:04 that many fans are just like Moirville. This is THEIR secret. Secrets make you insider, and superior. I am quite certain there are posters on fsu who know VM are married and have a baby and loudly call the idea crazy and roll their eyes. It would be no fun if it were public knowledge. As it is now the fans who know parcel it out, just like when fans thought the sham photos were secret or private would share them incrementally in pms. Not all at once because then you lose your power and status because everyone's seen them.
DeleteIf those who know tell, where is the fun. Everybody knows and everybody's equal and nobody's insider anymore.
oc
"They're not figure skating culture. They think VM are more elegant or some other quality a bit better than DW and think DW are just second best or a cut below but still do a great job. That's not proactively helping the ISU lie; that's not knowing your job or anything about the subject you're covering."
DeleteActually, they are part of figure skating culture. Do you think a journalist who actually educated his/herself on edges/flats, CoP, etc., would be allowed all access to events by the ISU? Get real. Don't you remember Nicky Slater saying that people who work in the media aren't allowed to train as technical specialists (V/M Worlds 2008 CD -- Brit Eurosport video). Why would the ISU not allow that to happen? Because then they would be able to give accurate commentary? Be able to question WTF judging? Typical. What the ISU wants is media who are just a bunch of groupies who don't know anything at all. That's figure skating culture.
8:53 - point taken. I hadn't looked at it from that perspective, but of course, these are the people the ISU want covering the sport, not people who know what they're talking about. It's self-selecting, and that explains the proactive participation of "journalists" and media types I cited by name. The ones who are attracted to the skating and skating personalities, and vice versa, whether in entertainment media or "news" are the ones who are receptive to the bullshit and have a groupie mentality. Ghomeshi certainly outed himself as a goupie this past season, dying for attention from those he interviews. That last, btw, is not exactly unusual in any sort of journalism, and downright the norm in entertainment "journalism".
Delete2:46 anon here. Question: Do you think they have certain people sign non-disclosure agreements? I would assume that most people that have known them for a while in the London/Ilderton area feel privileged and "special" and insider and like the fact they're "protecting" the privacy of Scott and Tessa and especially their daughter. They don't want to be the ones to get exiled and kicked out of the loop for being privacy violators. But what about randoms? I mean, I know the figure skating world is insular, but the real world isn't. How do they know one of their Canton neighbors who doesn't know them that well and realizes they're lying in the wake of the Olympics, or a daycare worker, or hell, the kid who serves them their coffee at Starbucks every day, won't say something? Or a fan on the street who gets their autograph and happens to see them with their kid calling them Mommy and Daddy every five seconds? That would be super awkward though: "Hey, great to meet you, glad you're a fan, don't mind my daughter here, and by the way [whips out piece of paper] would you mind signing this? It's not a big deal or anything, we just really value our kid's privacy."
DeleteOr maybe they're just lucky that outside of London/Ilderton, they aren't that important and no one cares that much? Right after the Olympics seems like a risky time though.
Although, I think I'm going to answer my own question. Maybe that's the reason for the escalation after Olympic runs? There are no NDAs because they're not that organized, so on the off chance someone does say something, they have 50 "insiders" say they saw Scott with his new girlfriend and the whistleblower is crazy?
Delete" I would assume that most people that have known them for a while in the London/Ilderton area feel privileged and "special" and insider and like the fact they're "protecting" the privacy of Scott and Tessa and especially their daughter. They don't want to be the ones to get exiled and kicked out of the loop for being privacy violators."
DeleteI have to say "Hah!' about the community protecting their privacy. The community leaks like a sieve and Scott and Tessa's most private concerns is Topic A not just among each other (of course) but to total strangers/fans if they happen to chat some up at competitions or events. They just don't get on line with it, or spill it for the record.
Moirville has had its jaw clamped, chewing on Scott and Tessa's most private concerns, for years. Scott and Tessa may as well live in a glass house. I'm not saying Moirville is always 100% on point with what's going on with them - the game of "telephone" happens in that community as much as any other, they get it wrong, speculation is confused with information, etc., and I'm sure Scott and Tessa are savvy enough about the interest in them. However, accurate or not, that doesn't stop the community from yakking their heads off and getting in their business, and spreading their business around.
They can't have people sign NDAs all the time because an NDA is an agreement, a contract, and in a contract someone exchanges something for something else. They can go around asking their neighbors and the guy at starbucks to sign whatever, but there is no reason for them to sign unless Tessa and Scott pay them money. And an NDA would spell out damages this person would have to pay if they reveal something. If Tessa and Scott have them sign an NDA while giving nothing in return, it is doubtful a court would find the agreement legally binding and actually hold them liable to pay Tessa and Scott damages. And Tessa & Scott would have to sue them under the agreement anyway, which would be public, so there really isn't any point to it.
DeleteIn your example, what they could do, if they wanted, is say "we will sign your autograph or pose for a picture, provided you sign this NDA" because then they have given something in exchange for signing the agreement, but I can't see that working in practice. I tend to think that they would just pose for the photo but say "please do not include our child in the photo" which 99% of people would oblige, and even if the photo got online they would say they were out with his niece (actually, they wouldn't say it, other fans would say it for them, and the next day there would be a photo of Scott fucking some girl, and fans would say "see, he's not married to Tessa.").
The only time they would need to get random people to sign agreements would be when filming their show. Then they would need a person to sign a contract agreeing to use their image on TV, otherwise they would be blurred out. And they could include non-disclosure language in there too, but again, no one is obligated to sign unless they agree to be seen on camera.
I imagine the people working behind-the-scenes on "Tessa & Scott" also were required to sign nondisclosure agreements.
Delete"Don't you remember Nicky Slater saying that people who work in the media aren't allowed to train as technical specialists (V/M Worlds 2008 CD -- Brit Eurosport video). "
DeleteActually, consider what we've heard of seminars from the likes of Aussie Willy, it's surprising the ISU wouldn't want to get journalists on board with those talking points, haha!!
Shannon W. Just said on twitter that they were with Joe and Alma at dinner....
ReplyDeleteOh Jesus, here we go again.....
DeleteWell if you are hanging out at the Ilderton Arena to be seen - naturally you have to have dinner with the folks....any chance there is a second annual VM golf tourney and she's invited?
DeleteSo we've moved on from the brunettes and now on to the redheads...oh Scott...but in the end talk about manipulation...if the guy wanted privacy, he could have met her inToronto after her tourney ended in Ottawa and be low-key rather than parade her back home where someone is bound to say something - especially when she is wearing the Canadian Olympic team jacket...not so subtle...
And Tessa used to dye her hair red...you're adorable Scott, you really are....
DeleteYou think Scott is picking out these women? I have never once thought that.
DeleteMaybe in exchange for selling his soul to Ilderton, they let him choose. "Here you go Scotty, have a flip through these photos. What about her, could you fake it with that one?"
DeleteI think Tessa chooses the women. Maybe the ones she's most interested in sleeping with herself? It's pretty obvious Scott has very little interest in these women himself, but maybe if its a situation where Tessa is getting a lot of "satisfaction" out of the relationship, it's worth it to him.
DeleteIn Jessica's case, the perceived similarity between D&D's situation and VM's situation (although the dynamics, trajectory and stability of each couple differed a great deal) was a driving factor, and the built-in convenience of it all. I speculate there was also an awful lot of self-congratulation and smuggery over how pat and neat it was too. Then there was the soap opera aspect they could have fun with - the "Poor Bryce!" angle.
Delete"Poor Bryce" was the biggest value add the original sham offered. Scott, all of Moirville, and points beyond LOVE Bryce. He came with the dinner.
Scott and Tessa are back at Arctic Edge today - someone posted a photo on Twitter.
ReplyDeleteso i guess this means v/m are going to continue to compete?
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing they just needed to escape from Moirville :-D
DeleteI'm guessing they were in Canton because they still like Marina, Johnny and other coaches' feedback for their SOI programs.
Deletemarina isnt in canton though. she's in japan. and i dont think oleg is there as well..
DeleteMaybe they're back in Canton because a certain little someone needs some structure and familiarity in her life (like sleeping in her own bed in the home shes lives in) after the Olympic and post-Olympic madness....
DeleteMaybe they're just picking up their stuff, sell their house and say goodbye to everyone while DW are not around.
DeleteDoesn't Little Moir spend most of her time at the Virtue family house in London? She isn't usually at that craptacular house in Canton.
DeleteBut that would mean they'd only get to see her on the weekends. While I somehow believe Tessa could live with that I don't see Scott leaving his child behind like this ( despite all the shams and lies ).
DeleteHow do you figure that, 7:27?
DeleteUnless you know them personally it's horrible speculation to say this about Tessa. Yes, the way they sham does not say good things about their integrity when it comes to PR, but it says nothing about the type of parents they are. They both come from large close-knit families and it's very evident they love their families. There's every reason to suppose they adore their child in the same way any normal parent does and that they are good parents.
"There's every reason to suppose they adore their child in the same way any normal parent does and that they are good parents."
DeleteAre you on crack? Seriously.
You have two married parents who lie to the extent of filming an entire effing show where the father makes out with a woman who is not his wife, and is encouraged to do so by his real wife. And you think "there's every reason to suppose that they are good parents"???? WTF. Good parents aren't wasting their energy filming fake reality shows that will do nothing but humiliate her when she grows up and her friends see what her parents did.
BTW Shannon Woodhouse is part of the University of Western Ontario's Jump Motion program. She's the Program Manager. Alma Moir is figure skating coach at UWO. I wonder if Woodhouse waved hi to Alma or just pretended to be a regular citizen recognizing the Olympians.
Delete8:40 in that case i guess all actors/celebs can be considered bad parents as well
Delete"8:40 in that case i guess all actors/celebs can be considered bad parents as well"
DeleteReally? Please name the actors/celebrities who have filmed a documentary about their lives (which they have emphasized is a true, accurate, and real portrait of their lives) where they have pretended to not be married when they are married, and pretended not to be parents when they are actually parents.
I'd say the Kardashians, but actually no -- I don't think they ever pretended not to be married. Usually they have some sort of fake marriage which they promote. But I've never seen an actor/celebrity claim not to be a parent he/she actually is a parent. Usually people are proud to be parents?
Delete"documentary" lol
Deletethere are reality tv stars that have done much worse than that. much much worse
I'll tell you what I've never seen: An actor/celebrity with a daughter say that he wishes he could change places with his brother so that he could have a beautiful daughter. According to 8:28 though, a statement like that is an example of good parenting. Hope 8:28 never has kids -- yikes!!
DeleteOh please, I'm not 8:28, but seriously? I see both sides, but I don't think his/her comment is that outrageous or worthy of such an insult. OC has said pretty much the exact same thing on occasion - that we don't see how they are in their private life. Are you one of the ones who think this is actual child abuse too? V/M are very young parents. And lots of parents say and do things that damage their children forever. I honestly believe that V/M have compartmentalized this to an insane degree. I'm not saying they're stellar examples of parenting by any means, but I don't think there is any evidence to suggest what they are doing reflects how they feel about their daughter. They just have let other things get in the way - the way a lot of parents have. This is a particularly bizarre situation, but they are in very unusual circumstances. That isn't an excuse - much of their behaviour is inexcusable. But they are certainly not the only parents to say dumb things that they don't really mean, or make terrible life choices. It doesn't mean they don't love their daughter, and we have NO evidence what they're home situation is actually like.
DeleteThe Jump Motion program appears to be about treating musculoskeletal diseases rather than sports medicine. Why would she know Alma? The UWO is a campus of close to 40,000 people. I do think the tweet sounds like a plan, especially the response under the picture, and the fact she is a local is relevant. I just don't see what the job has to do with proving it.
Delete*plant
Delete11:39 PM please, it's so worth noting that a woman who was one of two people who decided to tweet she saw Kaitlyn and Scott at dinner was at UWO. As has been noted many times, the population that would both recognize Kaitlyn and Scott (or Scott and Tessa) and be inclined to jump on social media and announce it is pretty tiny. There were two of them at that restaurant - not only recognized, but tweeted about it. I could be at plenty of restaurants where some notable was dining and absolutely nobody there would tweet about it, because those are the odds. Lots of people are on twitter, lots aren't, and many who are don't use it to say OMG I met a celeb! But two of em that night when Kaitlyn was dining with Moirs, and one is at UWO, where Alma has coached skating for decades. I think the Jump Program is also about joint health, and that's relational to figure skating.
Delete9:34, plenty of little kids, the children of actors, have been traumatized when they've seen their parents in a love scene. Most actors keep their kids away from it. Same with theatre. One of the kids of Margaret Sullavan (old time actress, an ex of Henry Fonda) recalls feeling extremely insecure watching in the wings when mom stripped to her slip in a fairly harmless play: "Voice of the Turtle", because Mommy was going to play a scene with a guy while wearing it.
DeleteWhen actors do love scenes, they don't look like their off-duty selves, aren't speaking the way they normally speak, and aren't called their own names. Everything about the situation - which still isn't comfortable for their kids - signals THIS IS FAKE. Most little kids understand acting, having been in plays and stuff at school. Their best friend might be a wicked witch or something and they're the hero or heroine. They know it's pretend.
Scott Moir is out there in the reality show as figure skater Scott Moir and his partner Tessa Virtue. Scott Moir tells the world he is hot and heavy with a woman who is not Tessa Virtue, and sits on the sofa snuggling and kissing. Or in a hotel room. Or tells the camera he's toting condoms to Sochi. Tessa tells the world she's insecure around Scott and implies a bit afraid as well. Tessa Virtue, a real person, a real figure skater, comes on camera as Tessa Virtue, and talks about looking towards a time when her life is away from Scott, the life that's waiting for her, and that it makes her feel good to know things like the TIFF are there for her when skating's done, and she gets her flirt on and maybe will marry a Frenchman some day. Also, in Sochi, she discovered Tinder, and now available men nearby can hook up with her.
That's way more mind fuckery than having actors for parents.
OC at 5:32 - did I not say that it was relevant that she was a local?? I was trying to provide accurate information, sometimes you seem to be a stickler about that yourself. UWO is a university with a HUGE medical program. I don't think Alma knows every employee that works in a medical program that somehow could possibly be linked to figure skating. I don't see one mention of sports on the Jump Motion program website - it's about diseases and disorders, not just "health". Someone who is more directly familiar with this particular program might be able to correct me, but I'm pretty sure I know more about the UWO campus than you do. My main opinion is the same as yours - that the fact that this person works at UWO is "worth noting", but I'm just saying that to connect it to her job description is a stretch. It's much more likely that she has a personal connection/interest in figure skating unrelated to her job.
Delete*her job description, and therefore has connected with the UWO figure skating community because she works there, not because of *what* she does. It's not that important, but since "jump motion" sounds like an actual figure skating program, I thought I would point it out.
DeleteI wasn't connecting it to her job description - just saying that the page mentioned it's focused on preventing joint damage and promoting joint health, and that is potentially how the two could have intersected. I took your post to mean Alma and Shannon were in different departments geographically and sector-wise and therefore the fact that Shannon was UWO and tweated seeing Scott and Kaitlyn was a coincidence.
DeleteIf you're not saying that, then that was my mistake.
I am saying the fact that they're both UWO is obviously how Shannon got in on the act, however she intersects with Alma, which may not be on the actual job, but she may know her through being UWO period, and her other connections at UWO.
My greater point is that even in London, two separate people in a restaurant on a given night when Scott and Kaitlyn were dining with Alma and Joe not only recognized them, but decided to TWEET that they saw Kaitlyn and Scott, and it being random and spontaneous, is very remote.
FSU believes IK are going to break up after worlds. Do you think this could convince VM ( and possibly WP, if they really plan to quit ) to stay ? Maybe even PB would consider another season.
ReplyDeleteI believe VM very much want to stay, and it's not dependent on what other team stays or leaves (except for DW) but what they hear through the old whispering walls from the ISU.
Deleteoc
I have the same thought as OC on VM. I think the ice dance landscape is going to be pretty barren and they may find themselves in need of a leader for the field. I do not think we'll be seeing VM next season though. I think they'll be busy. ;)
DeleteVM were still getting monster world record scores. It was just that DW were the ones out of line. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I'm reasonably hopeful for VM to eventually return. Historically, ice dancers have tended to peak in their late 20's, so it's possible we haven't seen the last nor the peak of VM.
PB are done. Fabian has had a lot of injury problems, including groin and ankle issues. His body is wearing out, and they're both in their 30's now.
I have no clue what to really think about WP. As much as they have improved, I think there are limits to what they can do. I foresee PI surpassing them in the near future as well as maybe a couple of other young teams.
VM weren't getting monster world record scores. They were getting the scores they deserved because that's how much better their skating is. It's like 2010 edition Yuna Kim winning almost 20 points clear of everybody else; she was that much better than the rest of the field.
DeleteAgreed about WP...love them, and they've improved immensely, but P/I are the better team, and if they keep improving, and deliver when it counts, they will dominate the next quad (assuming of course, the judging is fair...big unknown there)
I think we can agree that VM were getting the scores they deserved which also happen to be the scores that should be the real world records.
DeleteMy point was that VM were getting the world record scores--scored they also deserved--and then what would happen is that DW would be scored that plus a little more--a score they in no way earned. They could have sunk VM behind a couple of other teams, but they didn't do that. I find it reassuring that VM got the scores they deserved per the CoP. It was DW's scores that were the outliars.
I watch WP and I see how much they've improved, but at the same time, I feel like there's not much room left there to grow. I think PI have infinitely more potential to improve.
I find WP to be a highly overrated team. They're good and have enjoyable programs but they didn't bring anything new to the table neither technically nor artistically. They are a good top 5 team but I don't see them as world champions.
DeleteAnd that aside, I don't think the judges see them as world champions either. There is no political power behind them to change the judges mind.
I don't see PI rise either. While they are fantastic skaters they're also lacking the political power, the way they were treated in Sochi ( and at Canadian nats the years before ) was scandalous. I don't wanna know what will happen to them if SC suddenly remembers their crush on Paul Poirier.
PI were treated horribly in Sochi. I can't believe Coombes/Buckland, the Eurotrash version of D/W, finished way ahead of them.
DeleteAbsolutely 100% agree. V/M weren't the only victims in Sochi. And Coomes/Buckland beat the Shibs in the FD! Both doing Michael Jackson! I saw someone call it Black Monday, and it sure was.
DeleteWell, Platov has certainly been rewarding the ISU for elevating Coomes/Buckland, diligently promoting DW's victory.
DeleteI was just reading that thread on FSU about IK possibly splitting which is filled with the usual FSU trash. One thing that struck me was that someone said Annabel Morozov is a figure skater competing at lower levels. I felt horrible to read that, knowing the stuff that's out on the internet about how her dad (Nikolai) cheated on her mom while she was pregnant with her... poor girl.
ReplyDeleteIt made me think of Little Moir. Her dad isn't cheating, but still, her mom's entire pregnancy with her is seen as a joke as is their entire sham since she was born. At least her name is not connected to it, but still.
It also locks her in. Before she's even four years old she grows into a them and us worldview. It's like her life is curated by her parents and her options limited before her life even starts. She can't care about that show and she'll grow up not caring about it, because she's not allowed to care about it. It's not allowed to matter.
DeleteDo believe VM in their interviews when they say they're not going to make a decision until later on in the summer or do we believe this SC press release promoting WP?
ReplyDeletehttp://skatecanada.ca/AboutUs/NewsDetails/tabid/2157/sni%5B2797%5D/3406/language/en-US/Default.aspx
"Virtue and Moir are passing on worlds this year, and while nothing official has been announced, the general consensus is the six-time Canadian ice dance champions and 2010 Olympic gold medallists will retire from competitive skating in the coming weeks."
Well either way - Skate Canada looks like they are ready to push VM out the door....the lack of professionalism from this organization is unreal...in fact besides Bourne/Kraatz who have won more National titles because they have skated longer...VM must be at least in the top 3 internationally decorated skaters to represent Canada in any discipline....did Skate Canada close the door on Joannie Rochette after 2010...no..did the USFSA slam the door on Lysacek after 2010...no..Russia with Plushenko...no..honestly VM have earned the right to leave on their own terms..would it be the end of the world if they decided to skip next year entirely...no..
DeleteAlthough I do expect VM to retire from competitive skating..what's the bloody rush....I like WP but they didn't exactly seize the opportunity this year and unlike others I don't think they were robbed of a medal in Sochi...
Just to add - I sincerely hope that WP or other Skate Canada officials were not peeved at VM for skating both segments in the team event in Sochi...
DeleteDid W/P really think they would compete in the team event? That's naive...there's no way that was going to happen. It only made sense that the pairs would be split between the two events so close before the individual event, and same with the men. Osmond was going to have to skate both segments, because Daleman has no international experience at that level. That level V/M skating both segments. There was no other way around it.
Delete^that left V/M skating both segments.
DeleteAnd agreed, I don't thing W/P were robbed of a medal in Sochi. P/B, yes, W/P, no.
@9:15
DeleteI agree, what's up with Skate Canada essentially announcing VM's retirement before they do? It's completely unprofessional and I don't see how it helps Weaver/Poje. They're already Canada #1 at this competition and will probably get a bit of a boost in scores because of it. There's no need for this.
" Did W/P really think they would compete in the team event? "
DeleteBefore the Olympics WP gave pretty confident sounding statements that made it sound like they'd expect to be in the team event, possibly skating both segments, before VM said they'd definitely be there. After that they kept quiet about it.
Who knows what SC promised them beforehand. I believe SC cares even less about WP than they do about VM.
But who is Canada promoting now ? D/R ? While I don't believe the audience should be a deciding factor I think it's quite telling if even the Japanese fans don't care about a team. They got a very lukewarm response and no standing ovations.
May I add how much I hate Max Aarons blatant Scott Moir rip off ?
A Russian junior dance team ( silver medalists at Jr. Worlds ) were also clearly inspired by Carmen. But their attempt was a lot better.
"May I add how much I hate Max Aarons blatant Scott Moir rip off ?"
DeleteOh my goodness! I don't pay attention to men's skating at all so I totally missed this. LOL. It's so obvious that really, it can only be taken as a compliment.
The trouble with the costume is that, with the deep V and the mesh placed in a wide diagonal across the back, is that it completely misses the subtlety that made Scott's costume such genius. The person who designed Scott's costume knew exactly what is sexy about Scott when he skates. ;)
Wow, what assholes. "The general consensus" by WHOM? People who read Scott and Tessa's minds. That sounds like Barb idiocy. The skaters haven't made up their minds, or officially say so. Say "most speculation". Not "General consensus" and give a reason.
DeleteIt sounds as if they won't be behind them if they stay.
If I'm selling Skate Canada short, then they know VM are retiring and keeping the question in the air so the spotlight doesn't leave them and so they can command it when it suits them.
oc
Who is Skate Canada promoting now?
DeleteIt looks to me as if Skate Canada has disinvested in its skaters' results and progress and cares about other things. Maybe it's in the deal making business. If so, it should grow some skaters so they have cards to play. Slipchuk comes across as if he couldn't care less. Oh who cares about Sochi - Vancouver was legit. Yawn, we have no big up and coming skaters? I don't know, I think Dylan and Kristen (Dylan is now 30) and D&R could get on the podium in Korea 2018 maybe and that's two of them so does it really matter?
oc
At this point, I've reversed myself from an earlier position and I think VM are lying about not knowing what they're doing and are just using the "we haven't made a decision yet" talk as a way to bait and jerk fans around. They're not going to pass up any opportunities to be assholes towards the fans.
DeleteSkate Canada is the most do-nothing fed in existence. I think there are tiny cash-strapped feds from tiny, barely known nations that are more invested in helping their skaters however they can. They seriously do not seem to give a f*ck about their skaters or results.
"It sounds as if they won't be behind them if they stay."
DeleteIf V/M weren't aware of this article before it went out, then yes, I think this is SC telling them that it wants them off the national team.
This probably has to do also with funding for other dance teams. But crap its not like Skate Canada did anything for VM this last quad...like others have mentioned I don't exactly see DR hanging on for another quad and even MTM another 4 years is a long time for Dylan Moscovitch in pairs...in dance from what we have seen so far this Worlds - its evident that the field is not that deep after the top 10...and I can't even imagine what type of FD programs we will get next year...but to end on a positive note - high five to CL for finishing first in the SD...
DeleteI wonder if VM are 100% on top of how they've seemingly been hung out to dry. In quad leading up to Vancouver and in the year following, it was "how high do you want us to jump, Scott and Tessa?" because they were going to get gold for SC in Vancouver, and the fortunes of the directors were going to improve because of it.
DeleteIn the past three years SC sold VM out. I wonder about the chicken and egg situation. Did VM pull back and let it be known that there would be no more spreading of the wealth, that their star factor was for Moirville's benefit alone? Or did SC move on first?
"In the past three years SC sold VM out. I wonder about the chicken and egg situation. Did VM pull back and let it be known that there would be no more spreading of the wealth, that their star factor was for Moirville's benefit alone? Or did SC move on first? "
DeleteI've wondered this too, but IMO, the answer came in the form of Slipchuk's dumb words in Sochi, notably about the future of Canadian skating. If it were just VM, then they would be showing some enthusiasm towards their other skaters. Basically, Slipchuk's outlook for the next quad is D/R and M-T/M, with aging members in Duhamal (28), Radford (29), and Moscovitch (29) might eek out a podium finish in 2018 and who cares about results.
There were articles about Chan that were comparatively a lot better than what there was about VM, but they even half-assed things with Chan this past season. SC has a policy of not getting involved in coaching decisions, but I dunno, maybe when you have a top skater who doesn't have a technical coach heading into the Olympic season and other guys are catching up to him, you step in there. There is a lot of young skating talent in Canada, but there seems to be little interest from the fed in developing and promoting that talent. That attitude of not really wanting to do anything is endemic of Skate Canada culture.
Going back, VM weren't the only skaters who seemed to distance themselves or want to distance themselves from Deb. The only ones who seem to want anything to do with her are GP.
VM's job was to win skating competitions. There job was to win in Vancouver. After Vancouver, it was up to SC and their Director of Business Development to capitalize on the popularity of VM and Joannie Rochette to benefit the organization as a whole. Instead, SC seemed to operate as if VM winning and Joannie medaling would result in money and interest pouring in without them (Barb, etc.) having to lift a finger to do any real work.
11:57 - the not lift a finger attitude is something I've noticed about SC. I suspect Skate Canada sold the "trickle down" theory to the membership at large. As soon as the current officials were in place at SC, they tried to sell the "skating star" template as the key to a Federation - and figure skating's - success. Figure skating needed stars. If SC could "create" stars, SC could succeed.
DeleteSC was lazy. They weren't partners with VM - they were leaches. Their only game plan seemed to be that VM become stars and everybody in SC benefit from reflected glory and sharing the spotlight. Sponsors felt differently, as they pulled the rug out. That goes to SC management. It takes a lot of dong to alienate sponsors with an ice dance team en route to being the first North American/Canadian gold medalists in the discipline (Homesense) and in pulling out directly afterwards (BMO).
wow, the shitty judging continues. I wonder how many of these judges know what good skating and good dancing actually look like? They just mark on reputation, preference, etc.
ReplyDeleteHow the fuck are Coomes-Buckland in the top 10 when they should be fighting for top 20? Oh yeah, Evgeny "Tessa is too heavy" Platov. Fuck him.
IK get huge marks for that program? They have excellent basics, yes, but they don't dance together as a team and they get sloppy in places.
Don't get me started on the low-balling of PI (yes, they made mistakes as most teams did, but their GOEs and PCS were a joke).
GP were held up.
and LOL at the huge PCS Chock-Bates received.
I love how Coomes/Buckland were deemed to have better skating skills than Paul/Islam, the Shibs, Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, etc. How is that even possible? There's about 5 seconds of actual skating outside of the elements, the rest is hopping. They win the most overscored award for me last night.
DeleteIgor is a big Rettstatt fan and threw shade at VM. So of course.
Deleteoc
Is Rettstatt judging at these Worlds? I wonder what team he's going to piss on this next quad.
Delete"Is Rettstatt judging at these Worlds? I wonder what team he's going to piss on this next quad."
DeleteWho ever comes in the way of Chock/Bates.
I think Rettstatt's influence absolutely has to extend past whatever judging panel he's sitting on in a given competition. He's way more than just a judge.
DeleteI agree OC - that Rettstatt is not just a judge. All I can say after these Worlds in Japan- thanks mainly to Mao - the Japanese fans must be happy. It will be interesting to see if the ISU tries to keep Mao in for another year...
DeleteIn a way I am glad that the Shibs will be doing Stars on Ice in Japan...
"I think Rettstatt's influence absolutely has to extend past whatever judging panel he's sitting on in a given competition. He's way more than just a judge."
DeleteDo we have evidence of this, that he's directing things rather than following orders like all the rest of the judges? Just curious.
No, 1:34pm. All we have is the evidence available to us. Number one on the evidence table is DW's "skating" vis a vis the rulebook. Compare the two and it's immediately, indisbutably obvious that Davis White didn't earn their Olympic gold on the ice.
DeleteGoogle Shawn Rettstat, and he's an influential figure in the USFSA. Very possibly THE most influential, skating-savvy figure in the USFSA, as some in other USFSA positions don't know skating - only know business and marketing, and leave the skating knowledge to others.
Look at David Dore and his long history as an influential official with Skate Canada.
Then look at the past quad where Skate Canada helped facilitate the narrative that DW had overtaken VM, which, self-evidently, DW most certainly had not ON THE ICE.
Deals had to have been made. It's obvious the ISU makes deals that start at the top and are directed downward towards specific agendas. It is some "bug in the system" that it's simply individual judges going rogue, as the ISU would love the public to believe. The "individual judge" idea is the foundation of the ISU's support of anonymous judging, even though working off that idea, it doesn't make sense that anonymous judging helps defend against corruption. Typical of the ISU, it is immediately obvious that anonymous judging facilitates corruption.
I/K weren't just sloppy today, they screwed up the twizzles big time. He was basically watching her as she finished her twizzles. Shibs once again screwed over.
ReplyDeleteIf it's true Cassandra is no longer the official girlfriend, she and Jessica Dube can become facebook friends again. Remember when Cassandra still had an open list of friends, some fans noticed that simultaneous with the beginning of being Scott's new official GF she unfriended Jessica? Harsh. Well, now they can go back to being buddies. LOL
ReplyDeleteYep, the ISU will justify their propping of DW by throwing huge component marks at other teams with deficiencies in their skating technique.
ReplyDeleteI love Anna and Luca, but they and WP did not deserve PCS close to PB.
And the propping up of the C/Bs just confirms this.
Seriously. PB were screwed. They were screwed this whole quad.
DeleteAnd Coombes/Buckland and Gilles/Poirier finishing ahead of P/I? Barf.
The scoring is a mess. The judges aren't paying any attention whatsoever to the criteria in the rulebook - none. Skaters with textbook skating skills who adhere to the rulebook standards/guidelines are dismissed (the Shibs, P/I) skaters who are a hot mess and employ work-arounds so they're full of tricks and do as little skating as possible are rewarded in the scores for strong skating. This wouldn't be so terrible if we still had the 6.0 system but we don't - we have a system that breaks it down to define superior skating with specificity, a system that says you have to actually do it. The system - no news here - is just a fig leaf. Nobody's adhering to it, and it certainly appears that in seminars it's proactively ignored in favor of emphasizing other things that can't be quantified.
DeleteDo you like the skaters?
What's their situation like off ice?
Who coaches them?
How much ass did they kiss?
Are they really really eager to please to where they'd sell out just about anything?
Or are they uppity?
Is their drive to succeed directed in the right direction - flattery, schmoozing, back-scratching, $$$ towards the right people, or other assistance towards the right people?
Do they really really want it and let you know they'd do anything?
There's your ice dance criteria.
oc
Anonat 7:58 am - thanks for saying this - I totally agree. If IK had not had their twizzle mistake in the SD - they were slated to become world champs. Let's not forget that BS withdrew so that opened up some wiggle room. But overall - it appears that results were predetermined.
DeleteI really feel for Nathalie Pechelat and Fabian Bourzat - both have gone through injuries and a barrage of coaching changes and yet their quality of skating is evident and was underappreciated.
As discussed before - the PCS category has become a joke in ice-dance. Now you have to wonder if the IK rumours are true and in my books - I think the Shibs need to go back to the drawing board and decide what they want to do and whether they will continue.
In the end - I want the skating to be marked - not the personalities. I have stated previously that I enjoy CL and WP but I don't think they are in the same league as VM or PB - just my two cents.
I'm also glad that PI had a strong FD outing...With regards to next year, it will be very telling to me to see how Krylova/Carmenlengo package - WP, PI, HD and Hawayek/Baker. I hope Madison Hubbell recovers well from her surgery...
And wasn't there one team who skated to Umbrellas of Cherbourg and seemed to be inspired by VM...lol...
Again I think the biggest challenge next year for any team will be to find their own style...
"I'm also glad that PI had a strong FD outing...With regards to next year, it will be very telling to me to see how Krylova/Carmenlengo package - WP, PI, HD and Hawayek/Baker. I hope Madison Hubbell recovers well from her surgery..."
DeleteI'm curious about how they package as well. All four of those teams have work to do. None will ever be VM, but they're all lovely. They're all trying to dance and skate and embody what ice dancing is supposed to be. However, that doesn't seem to be what the ISU wants. I wonder all these teams will fair, along with The Shibs.
That said, I'm less concerned with style and thematic choice than whether or not skating and dancing is valued.
It wasn't just VM that got sold out. It was ice dance that was sold out. VM embodied more than any other team what the rulebook said was to be valued. Selling out one was selling out the other, and while I'm ok with the worlds podium--all three teams are far better skaters and dancers than DW--there was plenty of f*ckery throughout all of the marks. That doesn't bode well for the future.
As a fan, it's hard to really let myself get interested or invested in any ice dance team right now because I don't think any of them will fare any better than VM.
Anon at 11:37 am - anon here at 8:42 am - yes I agree with your entire post - including the statement that there was plenty of wth scores in ice dance. I know that I won't be as interested next year - especially if there is no innovation or attempts at new lifts or step sequences from teams like WP...
DeleteYou think C/L are better skaters than D/W? Really? I disagree. Better dancers by a country mile but their skating leaves much to be desired. Not to mention their FD could hardly be more open if they tried.
DeleteI can't believe how much P/B got dumped in this comp and I'm not even a big fan. Just about ready to give up on ice dance right now...
Look at what DW do at blade level. It's not f*cking skating that they're doing. C/L may be weak, but at least they're trying to skate.
DeleteI have a feeling P/B were punished for their criticism of the judging (with regards to I/K) in Sochi.
DeleteAnd I'm sure Speedy Cinquinta politiked for C/L.
The scores between the top 3 are so close, I actually don't think there was a concerted effort to get the podium in a certain order. I mean, I guess the tech specialist could continue to tinker with BVs, but corralling all the tech calls and judges scores into a certain order within .06 points seems nearly impossible.
DeleteIt seems to me more likely that different judges (or groups of judges) were pushing their own personal agendas and it all cancelled each other out in the end.
If there's collusion on the grand scale, you'd see differentials like DW get. They wouldn't leave it in small margins like that.
But this time the lack of differentiation did bother me. It's really weird seeing teams like CL and WP now averaging in the 9s, the kind of scores VM used to get (I guess they would have been averaging close to 10s had they come here). It's kind of like, oh, everyone is basically the same. There is no need to bother to improve your skating skills or add complex holds and transitions, because basically everyone will get the same scores and it will come down to who gave 110% or whatever.
CL do have weak basic skating, but they look like freaking Grishuk & Platov compared to DW. And could CL's program have been any more open? Yeah, it could have been DW's or IK's. Not really a World championship skate, but oh so much better than the "Olympic champions."
Back when D/W did more skating in their programs, they were better skaters than C/L are now, especially Anna. And true, I/K win the most open program competition but not by that much.
DeleteLike you said, why should P/B and W/P (and V/M) bother with dance holds and transitions if they're not going to be rewarded for it? Why work on your basic skating if the judges don't care about blade level? I like C/L and enjoy watching them skate but what kind of message are these results sending out to the up and coming ice dancers?
"Look at what DW do at blade level. It's not f*cking skating that they're doing. C/L may be weak, but at least they're trying to skate."
DeleteAgree with this. C/L have weaknesses - particularly Anna. When she's not doing an element she tends to get on flats (not two footed with her so muc, as a flat) and she's generally not deep in the ice in the best of times. Even so, look at the run of blade with her and her partner, and then look at DW's shallow, tight blade run.
DW have packaged themselves so they're not actually skating their program and when they do skate (step sequence) they are deficient compared to the other teams at the top. Markedly deficient. Short, tight, shallow. So yes, granted C/L have weaknesses, DW aren't doing it, so it can't be said they're better.
PB have deep knees and good edges, and I like them, but their skating can appear labored - bot getting the effortless flow they should be getting out of their knees/blades, and they are seldom all of a piece. There programs tend to be broken up by two-footing.
P.S. - ice network dragged yet another from-hunger ballroom dancer in to rate the skaters. One of these days icenetwork will remember the sport is skating and a ballroom dancer that ignores what happens at blade level is useless in terms of evaluating one team vis a vis another team, but I can see disregarding bladework being useful to icenetwork.
oc
I think the message this result sends is if you're a coach who loudly supports shady judging in a given quad, and proactively defends by name a judge only rumored on a fucking blog to be part of corruption, then your skaters have a shot at the world title, so take a hint.
DeleteThat's the message.
oc
I agree P/B can be laboured in their skating, which is why they were deservedly never scored close to V/M. But compared to Anna who barely gets into the ice, they are fantastic skaters.
DeleteI don't think politics is the only reason for these results. There's probably a desire for more competition after the VM/DW era: anyone can win! it's exciting! Never mind that the skaters aren't equals, it makes ice dance more interesting and look more fair.
Yes on the "making it look more fair." Lots of oh, if only Fabian hadn't messed up the twizzles in the SD, they had only themselves to blame...
DeleteTotally missing the point that PB deserved a significantly higher SS mark.
Meanwhile, Kostner wins a bronze medal with a fall and only 3 triple jumps based on outrageously high PCS marks for the likes of skating skills, transitions, and interpretation and everyone defends it.
Those things are so important in singles, just not ice dance? Truly bizarre.
btw P/B were the only team in the top four to receive no 10.00 PCS. they came in 2nd in the FD based on TES.
DeleteThe PCS was a bit ridiculous at this competition for all of the top teams. 9s and 10s for teams that barely ever got 9s. The system should leave room at the top for teams of V/M's calibre, whether they attend or not. 10.00s should only handed out for a V/M at their absolute perfect best.
DeleteP/B may have the edge on skating skills, but this FD of theirs doesn't do those skills any favours. Plenty of two-footing and stop-and-posing. They lost the gold by 0.06. Taking I/K out of it, who were obviously going to be coronated without such a disastrous error, P/B were judged to be the strongest error-free skaters. A clean twizzle with +2 GOE would have given them an extra 1.43. They made the deficit up with PCS in the SD, and a L4 footwork in the FD. I'm not convinced that they deserved to win decisively on FD PCS. They were given a lead of 0.14 in SS and 0.04 in CC compared to W/P and C/L. How much more should they have been ahead, and should they have been leading in the other 3 categories, with this particular FD? Is their timing better, do they match their lines better, do their transitions have more complex edges and holds? I don't think C/L's FD is significantly more open than P/B's. I don't quite see P/B as obvious PCS leaders myself, although I do feel it was a close enough call that I can see how people feel there's an argument there. JMO. I would welcome more specific examples of why P/B deserve higher PCS, though. I do like them.
Also, it's a bit unclear from some of the discussion here if people know that P/B are also coached by Igor? The most political result of the comp, to me, was obviously I/K. Their PCS scores were just gross. They won the FD with the lowest BV of the top 4, and they were 0.99 from the podium while getting a 0.00 for their SD twizzle.
When we look at the choreography Igor gave P&B, C&B and C&L, it's obvious the reason Davis White stayed with Marina wasn't politics, it was choreography. As malleable and politically careful as Davis White have been, I think it's a safe best the USFSA also knew choreography was important to put across the narrative of best in the world. Igor's choreography puts the clunkiness and the awkward on display.
DeleteI agree about I/K's overscoring. That's absurd. However, the ballroom dance judge on icenetwork thinks they're just sublime. Emperor's New Clothes is standard operating procedure in ice dance. Fans have no official voice anybody acknowledges, except for twitter, so it's the skating community and public relations platforms like ice network controlling the narrative in defiance of what is actually happening on the ice.
oc
Don't know how legit this is but there's a couple of people on Tumblr (I know, I know - please don't judge me....too much) saying that the house in Canton is up for sale.
ReplyDeleteIt's listed on Trulia as of this morning. It just went on the market.
DeleteI think VM are stringing people along at this point when it comes to returning to competition. If I'm right about a couple of things, I think VM know that even if they desired to compete next season, they wouldn't be able to compete in the fall and the timing of things wouldn't work to be ready for even the later half of the season (nationals/4CC/worlds). In one of the interviews they did since returning from Sochi, Scott was asked what he'd do if he felt like skating in a year. He answered he'd probably just go play hockey because it would be a physical thing. The only time they ever say they haven't made a decision yet is if directly asked. Reading between the lines of the rest of their answers, they sound retired. Ergo, I think that they've known the whole time they're definitely retiring and are just using this as another opportunity to string the fans along and be assholes.
Even if they really did want to compete, Canada had all 3 teams finish in the top 10 at worlds. Having a team like VM was a burden to SC to begin with. They wouldn't be welcomed or wanted back.
I think if the judging had been fair and SC done its job, VM might have taken a year off and then have come back, but we all know how everything went down. So do VM.
I think they still want to compete, but the ISU and SC have basically slammed the door in their faces.
DeleteAnon at 11:28 am - to be honest I always thought that perhaps Scott would end up coaching at Canton - but it appears that this is not in the cards...
DeleteAs for the three teams finishing top 10 at this years Worlds well I would take the results with a grain of salt...encouraging yes...but long term who knows...
"the whole time they're definitely retiring and are just using this as another opportunity to string the fans along and be assholes." oh yeah suuuuure it has nothing to do with how much they love the sport and cant bring themselves to officially retire.
DeleteRead between the lines. They've made their decision already. As they've made their decision and know what it is, withholding that answer at present and telling the public (fans) that they haven't decided yet *is* them stringing people along.
Delete^^ I agree - I commented on another post that every time Scott trotted out "We haven't decided...." in an interview, Tessa blinked so much you'd think there was grit in her eye. IMHO, they'd already decided.
DeleteYup. They've already decided, and had already decided before they left for Sochi.
DeleteThis "we haven't decided yet" is just about being assholes to the fans. Every other team or skater that is truly retiring has already made it clear that they were.
I still wonder, though, if their arrogance had them believing they would win in Sochi if they skated lights out, and now they feel they have unfinished business.
DeleteI don't agree that every skater has made it clear... P&B and Kim are the only ones that spring to mind. Kostner, Asada, Chan, Savchenko, and V&T have hinted about staying. D&W haven't committed either way.
Savchenko is defnitely staying, but she has a new partner as Robin wants to retire.
DeleteChan doesn't have a history of lying to the public or messing with his fans the way VM do. I give him the benefit of the doubt.
For some reason, I thought Asada and Kostner were definitely done, so hearing that they're considering staying is a pleasant surprise. Those two are both class acts though and I have no reason to believe they're lying. I also would give V/T the benefit of the doubt.
"I still wonder, though, if their arrogance had them believing they would win in Sochi if they skated lights out, and now they feel they have unfinished business."
I wouldn't call it arrogance because there should be nothing surer than a lights-out VM winning.
I think they knew before they got on the plane to Sochi that they were done because I think they'd already started putting other life plans into motion.
@1:03: "...if their arrogance had them believing they would win in Sochi". I don't think they were arrogant to think they could legitimately win in Sochi, if the judging was fair. D/W were arrogant to think they could legitimately win on the basis of their bullshit non-skating, non-dancing.
DeleteI know that VM truly would have deserved it, but it's arrogant in the sense that they know they didn't play the political games so why expect to just walk in and win the thing? It's arrogant to do a show that says you suck and are afraid to lose to W&P, and then expect to go in and have all of the judges fawn over you. They are experienced enough to know that D&W played the game and they didn't. Like in 2011. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
Deleteor perhaps they decided but aren't committed yet to their decision and they are trying to leave their options open? but OFC like usual everything v/m do is "baiting their fans" nobody knows what V/M's plans are.
DeleteSkaters like Chan, V/T, Kostner, Asada, even D/W, if they decide to come back, will have the full support of their feds. V/M would not, and they certainly have no love from the ISU. SC and the ISU have basically made them unwelcome.
DeleteSC's treatment of V/M is appalling. First Canadian team to win Junior Worlds, first to win Olympic gold, at home no less, first Canadian team to win two world titles, and the team revived true dance and skating. And they're basically being told, "here's the door, don't let it hit your ass on the way out".
also they might be waiting for D/W to announce their retirement (because for some reason they have to do everything together -_-)
DeleteI know, 1:48. It's grotesque.
DeleteIt's almost as if VM stayed in another four years just to prop DW. It makes DW look like a better team having beaten the reigning OGM and slaying programs like Carmen, while allowing for the completely humiliation of VM. VM could never skip a 4CC or GPF when DW was there, or even Nationals except that SC allowed it the year she gave birth (gotta make sure to have another opportunity to mark them close to WP and GP to further humiliate them), and now they can't even go to Worlds without DW. It's like why should VM even exist without DW?
That's what will bug me the most about VM's legacy. It'll be impossible to discuss it without bringing up DW. They are forever linked.
^I think you can say the same for D/W as well. Its impossible to bring up D/W without talking about V/M because they did everything before D/W (win jr worlds, win olympics, win 2 back 2 back world titles) but at least V/M's wont have rumours of collusion shadowing their win in vancouver. people can go on whine about home town advantage but the truth is v/m were going to win vancouver/ beat d/w no matter where the olympics took place (except for maybe russia)
Deleteat this worlds champs, it was obvious that the impact v/m had made towards the sport internationally was present
I think VM would like to stay in, house for sale or not. It may not be possible if the ISU and SC want them out, of course.
DeleteAs to fucking with the fans, IMO, ISC plays a big part there.
If Virtue Moir were definitely retired I don't know if Kaitlyn Lawes at the ISC would have had any impact. Or maybe they think they need Lawes' fame, in combination with Scott, to retain the spotlight, as Lawes is still relevant in eligible athletics. I don't know what success the ISC thinks it can have by staying in the spotlight versus the success they had prior to Tessa and Scott. It's not the like Ilderton area has huge competition in skating clubs. Maybe they're just flat out media whores.
I'm still waiting to see how the Lawes thing plays out, but supposing she is sham, I wonder if her presence is related to Tessa possibly being pregnant again and the touring with SOI in Japan and Canada about to kick off. If she is pregnant, there is no guarantee that she'll carry the same as she did last time and second pregnancies tend to show sooner. If she is, I'm sure she'll use the same fashion tricks as before and a chunk of the fandom will politely avert their eyes or put themselves into a state of denial about what they're seeing, but maybe they feel a fake gf is necessary?
Delete8:44
DeleteTo all of your post -- Perhaps.
However, it's a good idea to keep in mind that since the beginning of being in the senior ranks they have always felt a fake gf is necessary. Always.
"This "we haven't decided yet" is just about being assholes to the fans. Every other team or skater that is truly retiring has already made it clear that they were."
DeleteEver thought that this may be just marketing related and not necessarily means they want to screw over fans ? Many athletes don't announce retirement immediately simply because it would take away sponsoring opportunities. SOI might have a word in it too. Not everything comes down to Moirville, the business world is a little more complicated So cut them some slack.
Tessa did a pregnancy test and is pregnant again? what a surprise! can already be seen
Delete10:04 - while I agree with you in principle, history shows us that VM haven't really merited benefit of the doubt or fans cutting slack when speculating what they're up to. Yes, I believe it may have a marketing component, as you say, in which case Skate Canada's remarks announcing they're good as done looks even more like pushing them out the door. But we also have Kaitlyn Lawes at the Ilderton Skating Club.
DeleteTheir eligibility is also a good rationale for continuing the sham. A couple of private citizen figure skaters have less of a rationale to offer for shamming - a rationale presented to sponsors, interviewers, connections, etc.
SOI seems to have no problem with retired skaters on tour, so I doubt that's a factor. Jeff Buttle officially retired in 2008 and Kurt Browning has been retired for 20 years for crying out loud.
Delete"Their eligibility is also a good rationale for continuing the sham. A couple of private citizen figure skaters have less of a rationale to offer for shamming - a rationale presented to sponsors, interviewers, connections, etc."
If marketing is a consideration at all, I think this is what it is. Being officially retired means there is far less of a rationale to offer up for continuing on with the sham, which might not set well with sponsors. To continue to sham, they just keep stringing along the "considering a return to competition" thing. Late in the summer, they can say they're skipping the gp but are going to try to be back for nationals. Then, it turns into maybe next season, then maybe the pre-Olympic seasons, and then maybe the Olympic season.
It allows VM to be double assholes. They can continue shamming and they can keep getting hopes up they're going to return, only to dash them. I wouldn't be surprised if this is their plan and that they knew before they even got on the plane to Sochi that they were done no matter what.
"Having a team like VM was a burden to SC to begin with. "
ReplyDeleteWhy?
This quad, VM were in the way of the greater political interests of people like Lavoie and Dore. SC probably figured that more success for VM would have hindered the chance of a MEN'S OGM for Patrick. VM were in the way of pushing GP and WP.
DeleteSC had the greatest ice dance team of all time. Instead of getting behind that team, they wanted to push their pets.
i've been thinking.... based on how the media reacted maybe it was SC who told V/M to tell the media that zoueva "wasn't in their corner" considering its SC that media trains V/M.
DeleteFrom what we've seen this season Marina really wasn't in their corner. Why would SC need to tell VM to talk about it when everybody already knew bout it ?
Delete10:08 that's bullshit. People who say that are unable to come up with actual examples of how Marina "wasn't in their corner".
Deleteoc
Many people on this blog have given valid evidence for why they believe Marina wasn't on their side. Just because you don't happen to agree with them doesn't mean it's bs.
Delete8:36 AM - Nobody has given valid evidence. Many people have complained and made claims about her, nobody has given evidence to back it up.
Deleteoc
Someone not being in someone's corner is an opinion, not a fact. It isn't science and it isn't something that's judged in a rulebook, so one can't provide "evidence." People have provided examples many times of things that she said or did that made them feel that way, and the discussion has not been productive. This is subjective, it's not whether the blade hit at that angle or whether the timing of a pattern was correct.
DeleteIt's wrong to say that "it was clear that Marina wasn't there for them" and is also wrong to say "no one has ever provided examples." It's not clear, since many people don't think Marina did anything wrong. And people did provide examples where they thought she did something wrong, you just didn't agree with them which is fine, it's not black and white.
No one has ever provided non-subjective examples - how is that? The examples I've seen have ridden in on a ton of assumption, and interpretation and have ignored most context.
DeleteNot only have people not provided non-subjective examples, they have to look at their examples through an extremely narrow lens and ignore obvious context that changes the entire slant of what they think Marina has done. That's not a gray area - the entire template is VM are blind or powerless and are not the deciders, and Marina is the decider, therefore they got a crappy program and Marina went and ran them down to the media.
Nope nope nope.
Evidence to some fans, has included the opinion of some fans that Seasons was a crap program. I don't consider that evidence because it relies upon assumptions that are baseless - that Scott and Tessa didn't know it was a crap program, that it WAS a crap program, and that Scott and Tessa DID know it was a crap program but had to skate it anyway.
Problem with that is Scott and Tessa have agency and that is every bit as much THEIR program as Marina's. It's the program they wanted. If they wanted a different program they'd have skated a different program. These are two of the smartest people in the planet about what they're doing on the ice and how they want it presented.
I could provide more examples but the reason the evidence is not valid is it presents Scott and Tessa as a team that Marina can dictate to and they can't do anything about it. These two have been running their career for years. If Marina has an idea or suggests something and it's done, it's because Scott and Tessa WANT to do it. The people who objected to Marina talking about Tessa's confidence completely disregard that Tessa spent an entire reality show running down her confidence in herself and her skating, because they prefer to think Marina went rogue and ran down Tessa without Tessa's instructions/say so, even though she is simply singing from the hymnal Tessa has composed and has instructed Marina to use.
It may not be as cut and dried as blade versus flat, but it's not subjective as all that, either. The confirmation bias and discounting context or jettisoning it completely in order to promote the Marina narrative isn't subjective - it's right there.
oc
12:03 - while I definitely believe and the available evidence suggests that SC was entirely on board throwing VM under the bus, what exactly they got out of it is anybody's guess.
DeleteDavid Dore has to be part of it - his current position in the ISU means DW's win couldn't have been engineered without him.
If this was done to get Patrick an OGM, you'd think SC would be a little more fussed about his silver medal, but nobody at SC, in its public statements, seemed to really care. Slipchuk was all oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I used to think that the big push for G&P had to be about Debbi getting a new team who'd let her leach off them, but it has to be more widespread than that to explain the scores they got at Canadians (and the scores VM didn't get) the first year they competed as a team. Maybe it's Bonnie Gilles running around the Canadian judging community measuring them for Versace pants and they spread the word to the judges at this worlds.
I don't know if it's promotion of SC's "pets" that Skate Canada got out of its collaboration with the DW agenda, or if it was something the directors will get out of it or have gotten out of it. Skate Canada is awfully self-aggrandizing, the directors are self-serving to the nth degree, so to my way of thinking anyway, the trade-off wasn't that Skate Canada received an advantage for any of its skaters, even pets like G&P. There has to be an advantage for its directors, personally. Power, opportunity, money - in that category. Personal, not athletic, nothing to do with the glory of Canadian skating or promoting any Canadian skaters.
Of course the examples are going to be subjective. What would be non-subjective? Saying "I want Tessa and Scott to lose"? Obviously that's not going to happen. Of course people are going to read into her statements, body language, and actions.
DeleteJust because people contextualize differently than you do doesn't mean they're ignoring context.
For example, today an article came out in Russia media in which Marina said IK were the leading team in the World. Someone on FSU called her out because she coaches the Shibs, who beat IK this season and at Worlds a couple of times. They thought she might be angling to coach them. There are other examples where Marina has been accused of disloyalty to her collaborators and students, so one could place that in a larger context. And many of those people did not see it until it was too late. Given the greater context of the sham, it is not so hard to believe that VM in particular have bad judgment.
I wasn't even referring to Seasons as an example; I can see where it wouldn't be a good one.
Confirmation bias is definitely an issue, but it's prevalent on both sides of this issue, IMO.
It's not all that prevalent on the other side, 1:17. For example, the fact that Marina has been the target of "other accusations" isn't "context". That's like saying DW's past protocols justify present protocols. It's circular logic. Do the accusations have a basis outside projection and prejudice and interpretation or not?
DeleteLook at what, IMO, it the complete lack of common sense interpreting Marina's remark about I/K. I/K were the bronze medalists at Sochi. DW and VM aren't competing at Worlds. Therefore I/K are the front runners or were the front runners at Worlds. But fine, decide that Marina Zoueva just announced they're the best team and better than the Shibs.
Virtue and Moir have shown bad judgment in the sham but they are also IN CHARGE of the sham. Nobody's pushing the sham on them while they say "Seems like a good idea to me!" So I don't see how the sham opens up the idea that they have bad judgment about Marina. The Marina question goes to - who is in charge? Who makes decisions? Whose vision is being executed? Whose agenda is being served?
On and off the ice, the vision and agenda is Scott and Tessa's. At Arctic Edge and anywhere else.
Actual context, not subjective interpretation, is that it is a fact, and I don't think anybody will dispute it's a fact, that Tessa Virtue, in the reality show, aggressively portrayed herself as lacking in confidence on and off the ice. Lacked confidence in herself as a skater. Told the world it was almost like their skating had gotten worse, had declined (wasn't that wonderful - look at the argument of DW fans - taken straight from Tessa Virtue). The reality show, as pointed out by people here, timlines back to August 2012 AT LEAST. The Carmen season was 2012-2013. Marina made her remarks about Tessa's confidence after the Carmen season. But she's going rogue? She's undermining them? It's not helping Tessa's own freaking narrative that she of course knew about, participating in the reality show as she did? Talking and working with them daily as she does? She's not mouthing what Tessa Virtue wants out there? Tessa "Blunt" Virtue just let herself be victimized by her coach's words?
That's context. "She's been accused before!" is not context.
Body language is just ridiculous. Absent actual information (such as knowing someone is lying, as we know Scott and Tessa lie when they promote the reality show) is just pure projection of bias by the person who is looking at Marina, especially when it comes to "she's interested" or "she's not interested". One needs a frame of reference to even make a guess - body language isn't guessable without it. You can say "she's smiling" "She's not smiling" "frowning" "not frowning" but not why and what it means, but that doesn't stop fsu and other VM fans.
"The reality show, as pointed out by people here, timlines back to August 2012 AT LEAST."
DeleteThis is not re: the discussion at hand per se, but the CNE bit could easily have been taped last summer rather than 2012. Or it could have been part of the initial experimenting with the company that was mentioned, but before V/M had fully decided upon doing the show.
"Or it could have been part of the initial experimenting with the company that was mentioned, but before V/M had fully decided upon doing the show."
DeleteWell then, Tessa and Scott must have fully decided on going ahead with this show very soon after CNE in 2012, evidenced by the rush to acquire a girlfriend for Scott. Just a few weeks after CNE, in August 2012, Cassandra signed up for twitter and immediately it was about the amazing wonderful love of her life. No dating period at all -- the "break up" with Jessica was in March, VM had been touring with SOI after that and busy creating new programs plus skating at CNE -- when was Scott supposed to develop this new, intense, love of his life? I think there's no question the reality show deal was made right before or after CNE (summer of 2012). Scott needed a girlfriend right away. Not only that, it looks like from the beginning they contracted Casssandra to be part of the show. They all knew they were acting out a "relationship" so that it would appear to be more real by the time the show started filming in the Fall of 2013.
On the show, they lied about the newness of this "relationship," saying it was about 6 months old. Not true. By Fall 2013 they had been establishing her in that role for a whole year.
It is an assumption that they acquired the girlfriend specifically for the show. They never needed a reality show to need a sham gf before. If Kaitlyn Lawes turns out to be the new one, does that mean they have a second season in the works? If no reality show existed, do you think he would never have had a second sham gf? You well may be right on this, but "no question"?
DeleteThe only thing you're presenting as evidence here is that there isn't a logical timeframe for their relationship to grow. First, when have they EVER cared about making sure things made complete sense time-wise? And second, SOI ends in early May. The CNE show was in late August. Over the course of 3+ months, Scott can't go back to Ilderton enough on weekends to pick up with a hometown gal? I don't see any reason to think that this new sham gf wasn't planned from the moment JD got "dumped". They *did* leave enough time for it to be believable. Much more so than this time, if KL is gf #3. I don't see how the acquiring of CH as the gf proves anything about when the reality show was a done deal.
If you're the one who brought this up way upthread^, you have only a theory, as far as I can see. If the fact that they timed the documentary to start in 2012 at CNE is supposed to be significant, it can mean one of three things: 1) that they filmed it at CNE 2012, with the plan that it would be used to establish a sham timeline 2) that they filmed it at CNE 2012 as part of the initial contact with the company and decided to use the footage later to establish a sham timeline or 3) that it was filmed in 2013, labeled as 2012, in order to establish a sham timeline. All three seem plausible to me, and the latter two do not require them committing to the show and acquiring CH to be connected. If you feel it's obviously connected because of "why CH", again that's a theory. She certainly has seemed media-hungry at times, but JD was a liability because of her breakup with Bryce and the favouritism from SC, and CH was from his hometown which made the logistics simpler. There are plenty of reasons apart from the show that the switch could have been made. Assuming the opening of the reality show must be dated correctly and was planned that way from the start is the same as assuming that when Scott takes vacay photos with the sham gf he's "spending time away from his wife." They have a habit of framing things to mean something else. Again, I'm not saying that your opinion of when they agreed to do the show is obviously wrong. I'm just saying there are alternate explanations.
And also, just to clarify, the only reason the timeline is set to Aug 2012 is because CH setup her twitter then? Because the news only hit the fandom and this blog in November. So she kept her twitter private until then to have a history on there when it went public? (I'm not arguing here, I'm asking. Up until this discussion, if you asked me as a fan when their supposed relationship started, I would have said "sometime before Nov 2012" not "Aug 2012". The CNE show had no connection to CH for me, so if that was the purpose, it was lost on me. I never followed her twitter, though.)
I know this is naive, but I thought this WC was an opportunity for ice dance to set itself on a better path (i expect there will always be corruption and stupidity, but this sport used to have results that made sense). The sport went to hell when they gifted DW titles and placements over much better teams, including one of the all-time greatest, but I hoped DW would be the outliers and things would return to a more normal state once they were gone. But no, the ISU just had to shit on the sport even more. PB should have handily won the SS portion of the PCS, and their skating skills both as individuals and in their ability to dance as a team, should have meant more in other parts of the PCS. Aside from their deep knees and long edges, they actually bother to match their leg lines, extend their free legs, and wow, Nathalie can get into and out of lifts without her partner throwing her, slamming her into his back or shoulder, or actually sticking her up there. WP and CL both have issues with their basics that should have created more of a gap between PB and them. And neither of those teams has enough complexity in their program (especially CL, with the easiest program of the three teams) to overcome that. PB were ROBBED. This sport just continues to embarrass itself. I am done with ice dance. Such garbage.
ReplyDeleteAnd the of course the PI, Shibs, and HD are also being punished for having good skating skills...don't they know all that crap is a waste of time? Just ask GP (now we know where SC's politicking went) and both C/Bs.
and great job, Platov. Your team got into the top ten when they should have been fighting to even make the final. You must be so proud of your sport.
Anon at 10:56 pm - it is disheartening to see what has happened to ice dance. And let's face it - the way teams were overscored at this Worlds will give them no incentive to improve.
DeletePer Icenetwork, it appears that the Shibs will continue at Canton for another year. The Paso Doble may hamper them. We will see what approach they take next year - but something has to change or else they will fall back further.
And folks these open programs are not doing anyone any favours...not in the long term...And I have to laugh at the DW ubers who love WP...oh the hypocrisy....
*sigh* Tessa and Scott weren't metaphorically crucified so ice dance could become a chaotic shithole.
DeleteThe last quad and a half in ice-dance was about getting DW to the top. The problem is now the ISU's ice-dance judges have been trained to score according to whatever patterns benefited DW. The mafia tactics that got judges and commentators on board weren't going to disappear immediately after DW exited the stage. It will take a while for any "new" direction, if the ISU is so inclined.
DeleteI don't know why anyone expected a completely new direction in ice-dance scoring right after Sochi. The same clowns who got DW their gold medal - the ones who decided the rulebook didn't matter - are still the ones who are running the show.,
Don't forget that DW still haven't officially retired yet. If they suddenly announce their comeback the judges need to make sure they'll continue to get these massive scores to justify Sochi.
DeleteThe scoring in Saitama just prove again that the judges don't pay attention to the actual scoring system, they're still handing out placements as they like just like they used to under 6.0.
The fact that IK would have been world champs doesn't speak well for the future.
11:11 a.m. - The agenda to push DW to the gold medal has wreaked havoc. Obviously, the agenda wasn't to crucify VM, using DW as a club to beat them with - the agenda was to get DW the gold medal and so VM were crucified. The collateral damage is the same. Those two teams were the primary elements deployed in a quad that saw ice dance judging turn into a cesspool of corruption. These are the consequences. The ISU had an agenda other than "let's make this sport a chaotic shithole" but the OUTCOME of promoting DW over VM is the sport became a chaotic shithole - or more in your face about it.
DeletePeople can look at other disciplines and get at least a general idea about why this or that one got the placement they got, although certainly there's shady stuff in other disciplines too. In ice dance? You can't look at the skating, and then at the placements, and definitely can't look at the pcs, and then at the skating, and find connections. It does go back to what was proactively determined about DW. I don't think VM and DW just happened to be skating in an era of corruption. I think corruption on a larger scale then ever before occurred for the specific purpose of putting DW on top of the podium. The sport was polluted even more in order to get that done.
I think those who hoped that ice dance would re-acquire some validity after Sochi hoped that, with the agenda of getting DW Olympic gold accomplished, ice dance could begin to actually reference the skating when awarding points. The problem is that a clusterfuck was created to advance that agenda, the ISU would need to proactively reverse course in order to clean it up, and how many think that's high on their to do list? Also, it worked. It was daylight robbery, and nobody cared.
Looks to me like a free for all now, because skating isn't part of the calculation.
I hate seeing teams like WP, IK, CL getting 10s and averaging 9s. What room is there for VM? It maintains that false dichotomy in which whenever VM have a visible flaw, they have to get marked down, and since every else gets 10s and +3s for visibly "clean" but inferior skating, they lose.
DeleteOTOH, I do get why the other federations are doing it. 10s should have been a sacred thing reserved for skaters like Volosozhar/Trankov, Savchenko/Szolkowy, and Virtue/Moir. Once they started handing them out to DW, it's hard not to be able to justify giving them to just about anybody else. All they have to say is they gave 110%, were tight with the music that day, that they really felt a lot from their performance, etc.
Well said anon at 1:48 pm - we had discussions at least two years ago about VMs and DWs scores hitting the ceiling. But now with this Worlds - we get the trends of 9s and 10s and +3s for GOEs given out like candy. It's ridiculous. The judges are complacent. They are definitely not following the rulebook. No one complained. Same old, same old. A team like Weaver Poje might be able to get one more world medal next year but if they decide to stay afterwards - they will get dumped - and in my opinion - they have peaked...
DeleteAnd if you think about it now that CL and WP are world medalists it is very unlikely that they will complain about the judging. But as OC and others have pointed out - the problem of judging etc starts at the top of the chain and ends with the judges. How does a Dore and Speedy stay in their positions as long as they have? If you didn't know better - you would actually think that the ISU is a family business that Dore and Speedy started and that you cannot get rid of. Hell this company doesn't even appear to have a board of directors...organization chart - what the hell is that?
I know 2:24, and those who write about figure skating just think this is a quirk of the culture and doesn't speak to the legitimacy of the sport or how it's scored one bit. Oh it's whispers and shadows, it's mysterious, it's arcane, but it's a totally real sport with up and up judging unless there's a Russian in which case - be vigilent! Don't let those Russians corrupt our scrupulously honest scoring system.
DeleteI agree that the agenda was not to use DW as a club to beat VM with. There was a quad-and-a-half long agenda to get DW to the top of the Olympic podium--not just a team from the US, but specifically DW. VM were in the way. VM also happened to be one of the greatest if not the greatest ice dance teams ever. When VM didn't retire after winning an OGM and world title, drastic measures had to be taken. I think some of VM's personal decisions made things a little easier at times, but even if VM had been upfront and honest about their personal lives, TPTB would have still found a way to crucify them. As it is, to put DW on top, it ultimately took selling out absolutely everything about ice dancing. Everything that was valued for years as good was foresaken to make Sochi happen. In other words, ice dance was destroyed to put DW on top.
DeleteI have no problem with the three teams that ended up on the podium at worlds. What I do have a problem with is the order and the scores each received. I find the scores from worlds and the fact that there was only 0.06 difference between gold and bronze just as alarming as the gross differentials by which DW "won". To me it said that the judges were just throwing numbers out there with no consideration of how those numbers related to what was actually being done on ice. This is not 6.0. The skaters are supposed to be ranked according to the criteria, not each other. If there aren't any teams in a competition who deserve PCS in the 9-10 range, then there aren't any teams that deserve it and those marks shouldn't be given.
One of the aspects of the push for DW was promoting what they were doing as best in the judging seminars. I'm sure part of the judges are marking knowing they're not giving the right marks, but part of these judges were basically brainwashed. Now, there's a population of ill-trained judges out there. Even if DW are gone for good, these badly trained judges are going nowhere. I suppose they could be reprogrammed, but I don't foresee that happening.
Is MIss Hilborn declaring herself still in the game as Scott's (pretend) gf?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/cassandra.hilborn?fref=ts
What gall from someone who was hired for a sham.
7:31 AM No matter how well people understand that the sham happens under Moirville's direction and guidelines, and that fake girlfriends don't "act out" on facebook on their own, some fans still appear to prefer to believe that somehow the fake girlfriend is manages her sham fb output according to her ego or vanity. That's not how it works.
Deleteoc
Yes, I agree it's Moirville directing the sham. But it does come across as a GF who is shallow and self-absorbed. This is not the first time I wonder why a girl would sign on for this when it consists of Moirville directing scenes (social media output, the reality show, etc.) that mostly make her look grasping and pathetic.
DeleteI think the nature of the sham makes it default to grasping and pathetic. Think about if you were shamming with somebody with whom you actually had no real relationship. You share no experiences, don't do real things alone together - dine alone, movies, hang out, long talks. It's all 2-dimensional. What are you going to talk about on social media? There's no shared life there as a reference. It's just going to be greatest boyfriend ever, can't wait to see you, best visit ever, I love you, rinse, wash repeat. You can't make a joke about something he said, did, or something the two of you did that's specific. It's just babe, you're the best, love spending time with you - all this generic crap.
DeleteThe very odd thing is apparently the sham girlfriends can't talk about the skating either. That's the most enormous thing in Scott's life and if you read Jessica's facebook or Cassandra's, there's nothing about the competition. Scott Moir won gold in Vancouver and you'd never know it from Jessica's facebook (or Scott's for that matter). No celebration, no congratulations, kudos for beautiful skates. How many times did Tanith - a real girlfriend - talk about Meryl and Charlie? Before she took her relationship with Charlie a bit dl on social media, she was constantly pushing their skating.
One reason it looks bizarre and grasping is there's no relationship, so everything has to be generic, something that could apply to anybody's relationship. Very dumbed down.
The other reason it looks bizarre is the sham girlfriend ignores the fact that Scott is a champion ice dancer who skates with a partner. I don't know why Moirville doesn't want the fake girlfriend talking about what is the major part of his life (other than his wife and child), but that's how it went with both Jessica and Cassandra. It's a pretty huge thing to ignore.
oc
Just watching the Worlds gala on CBC, and the president of Skate Canada was interviewed. She said something along the lines of ice dance being the epitome of all great skating skills. Nice of SC to throw the team that best epitomized skating skills under the bus this past quad.
ReplyDelete"Nice of SC to throw the team that best epitomized skating skills under the bus this past quad."
DeleteThrow them under the bus and push them out the door. I think that VM went into Sochi knowing what they were doing, but I also think it might have been different without the fed trying to push them out. Any other fed would be encouraging a team or skater of VM's caliber to stay in, no matter who else they had in the ranks, or ready to welcome them back with open arms if they decided to return. Not SC though. They are the worlds worst skating federation.
I will never understand how Kurt and Carol could justify the scoring in Sochi and fail to really discuss VM's strong points. Yes, Carol said at the Olympics that VM have beautiful skating skills. It was a brief comment and she didn't elaborate. But she was singing IK's praises during that event, neglecting the fact that their programs were pretty empty and skated apart. In the worlds broadcast, she talked about how IK's strength is their skating skills, and how their blade runs are long and they "eat up the ice." I agree with all of that and was glad to hear her say it, but it made me wonder why she did not say the same about VM, whose skating skills are even better, who are "eat[ing] up the ice" in hold with difficult transitions. Perhaps, and hopefully, she learned from feedback she received after Sochi, but still. VM do everything well, so it is not at all difficult to find things to praise them about. I will never understand the lack of support from commentators from their own country.
DeleteIt also bothered me that Carol said that the scores being so close and the possibility that any of those teams could have won was so great for the sport. How is teams being scored as though they were equals when some were clearly and significantly better good for the sport? PB barely scored higher than WP and CL in skating skills, for example when they should have easily and handily won that category. And they are great dancers--they understand rhythm and movement. This is supposed to be accounted for in the other PCS categories. Yes, their program was more open than I would have liked, but they still showed they could dance well in hold and combine the dancing with actual skating (not just dance in one place). CL and IK had very open programs--IK have stellar basics, but CL do not. WP, had some great choreo that showed they could dance in hold in skate a program with good transitions, but Kaitlyn still has issues with her blade technique and with her dancing (she gets stiff and hits awkward positions...she just doesn't have the dance ability that CL and PB do). But like people said above, the changes that needed to be made in order to get DW their titles are going to impact the rest of the sport for who knows how long...possibly until the next chosen team actually has the qualities that constitute quality ice dancing. I don't know if I can bear to watch anymore.
The Eurosport commentary for Worlds was unbearable. The one commentator (not Nicky Slater, but the former singles skater) was going on about W/P's effortless speed. W/P have improved a lot, but their skating is not effortless (well, at least not Kaitlyn; Andrew is the more natural skater of the two). When did V/M's truly effortless speed ever get pointed out?
DeleteAll the commentators get an epic fail this season; actually, they get an epic fail all this past quad, but this season was the worst. When you have Carol Lane comparing V/M and D/W to "12 years a Slave" and "Gravity" in Sochi, it must makes a complete mockery of the sport. And she, a dance coach, of all people, should know better. Utterly disappointing.