 |
| OMG OMG MY HALL & OATES T-SHIRT!!!!! |
 | |
| True believers Tessa and Kate worship at the Church of Hall & Oates. |
Hey Tessa - favorite music?:
 |
 |
| "OMG, this is so embarrassing. I don't even know the answer to that right now." |
 |
| Scott: "Hall and Oates"? Tessa: "What am I into?" |
After all:
 |
| We keep our lives separate, separate separately. We are very different people. Totally. Separate people. Who live separately. |
 |
| They don't even know how much they're going to miss each other when this is all over and they go their separate ways even more than they go their separate ways now. "May I hef nuh glash chrdnny."* |
 |
| They don't connect off the ice. Often they don't connect on the ice. |
 |
| I don't think he even likes me. But I don't know for sure cause I don't know him that well. |
 |
| Scott can only tolerate her for brief intervals before he has to walk away. |
 |
| "I like to keep my skating separate from my personal life, which means Cassandra and Tessa have never been introduced." P.S. - Hey Scott. Who did your eyebrows? |
 |
 |
| Oh those ill at ease, awkward silences when Tessa tries to reach across the gap, and Scott is just embarrassed for her. And a little bit pitying. |
 |
coSaundra. Sorry, my bad. |
Also want to briefly revisit this:
Yes, we know what this means, ignore it. It's a set up, he's gay, he's a relative, he's a random, he's a charity case, he's the actual boyfriend, he's someone else's boyfriend, he's an in-law or co-worker. We can't know, we only know past is precedent, and the natural assumptions don't apply. Just wait for the other shoe.
But I'm going to go to the face value interpretation just for fun. To imagine, as a wish fulfillment exercise, a scenario where coSaundra was over it before Sochi, went to Sochi, and afterwards announced she was finished with the whole thing, and then relieved her pent-up feelings by slapping up a picture of herself and her boyfriend. (The lines of their faces, the expression in their eyes and their smiles, and everything else between them in this image is congruent and in sync). A boyfriend who resembles Charlie White way more than Scott. Finally prove to everybody that her situation wasn't really as pathetic, grasping and desperate as it registered during her entire tour of duty as the official girlfriend (which she still may be).
The odd part is she'd be sending the message to "us". The ones who were scammed; the stupid public. Why would she even bother. The VM fandom gets so many mixed messages:
"You suck and you're stupid - we've erected a fortress of lies!"
"Hey - wake up! Where are you going? Look at our fortress of lies!"
And then - "Hey - moment of your time. We'd like to share a few liner notes vis a vis our p.r. output just concluded; a few editorial commments and asides. We want to walk some things back and re-set for the next round, without really saying that's what we're doing."
Then:
"Look at our latest fortress of lies!"
For some reason we are the ones they lie to, but also the ones they preen themselves in front of, show off in front of, weep in front of, and try to set straight. I don't actually get that.
And also maybe the profile pic wants to tell us that her real boyfriend is cute, actually likes her, and, btw, doesn't take an entire summer to generate facial hair. A girl can only take so much.
IOW, the fantasy here is this is her move, not Moirville's move.
I don't think so, but that would be the most dramatic, soap opera scenario that actually scanned. People don't tend to really act with such a straight line from A to B, though.
________________________
*Bridget Jones.
"Then after the Olympics, it was this:
ReplyDeleteHey Tessa - favorite music?:"
That QA didn't surface until during the Olympics, but it was originally recorded at that RBC Olympians event in early October.
FWIW, I do think Tessa actually likes Hall&Oates. I think it's just that they're not her most favorite band ever. I'm actually willing to give her a pass here, although I agree that the extent of her interest in Hall and Oates was probably overplayed a bit for the show. There is a certain band prominent in the 70's that I grew up listening to because my parents loved them. I'd be pretty damned excited to see them live, but if someone were interviewing me for some reason and asked what my favorite band was or what music I'm into right now, this band probably wouldn't come to mind and I'd be probably be left struggling to answer it.
As far as the Cassandra fb profile pic, I've personally been assuming since it went up that it's some sort of sting setup. The stupid show and the Olympics have cultivated a new crop of shippers that must be toyed with.
Tumblr has been full of stupid as of late, but there was one post from a long time fan geared towards the new people, warning them of VM's ways. I somehow doubt the newbies paid the attention to it they should have.
The fact that it was filmed in October makes their exchange even dumber, but that's to be expected of EVERYTHING they've geared toward the public, especially the show.
DeleteI think my favorite part was where the fake girlfriend flew all the way to Paris to see V/M skate and meet Tessa. Because she couldn't meet Tessa in the hometown they both live in, LOL.
Tumblr hasn't just been full of stupid as of late, it has been full of ABSOLUTE AND TOTAL DUMBASSERY. My favorite is the site with the person who, when asked how much of their show she thought was "real," replied with "80%."
Bahahahahahaha. I hope that person is on the V/M payroll.
"The stupid show and the Olympics have cultivated a new crop of shippers that must be toyed with."
Yep. How sincere and considerate of them!
I agree that it being filmed in October makes it even stupider. And it's not that somewhere in her list of likes she does enjoy Hall & Oates - considering in the reality show she was spazzing out over Hall & Oates, perhaps she should have named checked them when asked the question. Bigger than that is in this interview Scott knows everything about her - especially that she's been more of a Sons of Anarchy person than a Homeland person, and, she's asking Scott what she likes. This isn't nitpicking, this is just the two of them being natural - he knows everything about her because they're married and live together and have been together forever, and in this interview they act like it. She doesn't hesitate to feed off him. They both answer along similar lines - it's a "we" thing. "We" and liking lakes. "We" are Tigers fans now that we're in Detroit. It's Scott and Tessa in natural sync, almost as if they're channeling Weaver & Poje, and they're doing this while flogging us over the head during the reality show with how stilted, awkward, uncertain and disconnected their relationship actually is, mostly because they have completely separate lives, and their connection is built on skating, and even then the connection isn't that great, except here's Scott in the latest article remarking how much they like to spend time together off the ice, how close a relationship they have, and how not having skating careers to tie them together isn't going to affect how much they like to be together.
DeleteWhat the fuck people. Your reality show of "Maybe we'll check in once a year" ended what a month ago or so, and was promoted up the whazoo and there it goes into the trash can like everything else that's over and done with them and just served the purpose of the moment.
This is how it is with them. They work over time trying to get the fandom in a chokehold until the fandom buys what they're selling. Then when they let go they forget all about it and undermine what they've just done - right in front of us. Scott and Tessa didn't promote the reality show once it was airing - good thing because they'd never keep what they were saying and doing in the moment straight with what they said and did in the reality show - they don't have that type of discipline or follow through or interest.
Even before the reality show, two years before, when Tessa was pregnant (and pretending she was off ice solely for her shins) Scott, who had a "girlfriend" happily told anyone who asked that he was spending his down time "hanging out with my girl T here." Really? That never came up in the reality show. But 2010-2011 is the un-year - nobody talks about it anymore. Even when Scott and Tessa interrupted the 4CC's 2013, amazingly only fans remembered they'd withdrawn from the 4CC's 2011.
At least Marina isn't responsible for this stuff.
9:20pm - to be fair, it would be very difficult for Cassandra to have met Tessa in the hometown they both live in because Scott and Tessa never spend time together off the ice except when it's pre-arranged - a dinner to try and clear the hurdle of their incongruent, out of sync mood states and personalities, or maybe a slightly distant but well-intentioned stroll around the Arctic Edge exterior. When he's home he's with his hot and heavy gf and she's way over there having her own life in school. Cassandra could see Scott 24/7 every time he's home and never run into Tessa. It makes so much more sense for her to attend a competition where they HAVE to be together at least at the venue, because they're competing. It makes total sense!
DeleteTessa first name checked Hall & Oates in, I believe, 2009 (that I recall) after Canadians when she mentioned attending a H&O concert in London with her mother and sister and how old the crowd was and how they were the only ones dancing. Since the reality show based its script on old shit the fans had been saying I don't see why it couldn't have likewise based other parts of the show on old shit nineteen year old Tessa once said, and then recreated it, such as going to Hall & Oates with her mom. I'm sure Hall & Oates were only too happy to participate for the free exposure.
DeleteI actually think a lot of the show was re-creating vignettes from their tween and teen years. It's 14 year old Tessa wondering if Scott will always like her, and needing to learn to be touched by Scott.
DeleteHe may have said it in a 2010-11 interview, but that specific "hanging out with my girl T" quote happened at the Vancouver Olympics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_rNBM83hU4
DeleteHold on darn tooting minute.....did Tessa not say in Sochi or post-Sochi that she spent all her time getting physio and had to count how many steps it was to the fridge and if it was worth it because of her post-op shins? So how as she cheering on their team-mates?
Delete6:48 AM - he said something similar to Debbi Wilkes in that very authentic book signing at Western Challenge when Tessa was pregnant. You are correct that the specific phrase "My girl T here" was, I believe, in Vancouver (The WSJ ivideo maybe?), but he essentially said the same thing to Debbi the following season, when Debbi finally reached the front of that long book signing line at the Hershey Center consisting of three SC volunteers and a person or two hanging out behind the counter.
Delete9:20 PM - I wonder what metrics the tumblr owner used to arrive at 80%. That's so specific.
9:48 AM - she's got a Little Mermaid esque tolerance for leg pain (the Brothers Grimm, not Disney)?
Slightly O/T but does anyone know why Tessa scheduled 'both' her surgeries for Oct? Wouldn't it have made more sense do have them done at the end of the season and then have the summer to recover and be ready for the new season?
DeleteThis is only spec, but I'm assuming the first time she scheduled it as soon as she could based on her diagnosis. I don't think she knew she had CECS at the beginning of summer.
DeleteThe second surgery was scheduled around pregnancy. Someone else can explain better, but apparently the surgery is dangerous in first or third trimester, so it was scheduled at the end of her second, right after a couple of shows.
Too funny about that tumbler owner deciding 80% of VM's reality show is true.
DeleteThis youtube account has lots of vignettes from the show and every single one is promoting lies. Like this one of Tessa and Scott taking in the sights of Paris:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT4aEru7pMY
Let alone the portrayal of two people who are awkward and uncomfortable around each other (LIE). Tessa specifically saying that after Skate Canada in St Johns they realized they needed to talk about their skating after the SD or the FD is ludicrous. This team has been competing together - very successfully - since a very young age. But now, at the very end of their 17 years together they "discover" they need to talk?
How does anyone see that kind of script and believe it's real? The audience is willingly suspending reality and common sense and allowing themselves to be lied to. It's no wonder VM get away with all their lies all these years, people not only desperately want to believe them, I think they also resist the idea of confronting the lies and having to deal with them.
3:37, I'm your someone else who can explain it better.
DeleteThe first trimester of pregnancy is the most sensitive and critical in the development of the embryo. This is when everything is forming--organs, skeletal system, literally everything. None of the drugs commonly used for anesthesia in human surgery are known to be teratogenic, but at this stage, but there is an increased risk of miscarriage, low birth weight, and growth restriction. It's a risk that no physician is going to take for an elective surgery. Not known is a delicate area when it comes to embryonic and fetal development. They don't know of any cases where these drugs have caused malformations, but they don't know that they can't cause a problem either. There is actually one study from a couple of years ago that was done in mice that showed that nitrous oxide and isoflurane might affect expression of some genes in the brain. There are a few of the other drugs that have also shown to possibly be problematic in rodents. But, again, the studies were done mice, and despite their ubiquitous use in research, there are many results seen in rodents that are not duplicated in humans.
In general, doctors don't like to do any elective surgery during pregnancy, but second trimester elective surgery does happen. The baby's systems have developed, and although there are some concerns, they're pretty manageable at this stage of pregnancy. Even though this isn't the exact procedure Tessa had done, I suggest googling second trimester knee surgery. If you have to have an elective surgery, the second trimester is considered the "safe" time to do it.
In the third trimester, elective surgery once again becomes something that doesn't happen. During the third trimester, the mother's respiratory, gastrointestinal, and circulatory systems have slowed considerably (even more than in the second). Anesthesia slows these more, and that becomes a risk to the mother and baby. There are more mechanical concerns with the mother being in the same position for the duration of surgery as well.
If Tessa hadn't been pregnant, they probably would have done the second surgery as soon as possible after the end of the 09-10 competitive season. The timing of the second surgery was used as an excuse for missing the GP. My guess is that they pushed that second surgery to the very, very end of the second trimester. They couldn't do it during the first. Doing it at the beginning or early in the second trimester would have knocked them out of doing the shows they did (granted, they also got lucky on how Tessa carried) and would have meant missing training time during the time frame they could still train before the later parts of the pregnancy.
This timeline of the second surgery being at the very end of the second trimester actually works out very neatly if you work back from Little Moir being born in the very early days of January 2011 and remember that elective inductions can be done at 39 weeks (if she didn't come on her own before 39 weeks).
"9:20 PM - I wonder what metrics the tumblr owner used to arrive at 80%. That's so specific."
DeleteBecause even the staunchest defenders of V/M's public personas are able to see how full of bullshit that show really was. However, they still desperately want to believe most of what they've been told is the truth (or that the main points are still true) so I'm guessing that's where the 80% comes from. Not 83% or 79% though. The nice round number: 80. Make it close enough to 100 but not sooo close, you know?
4:38 - thank you very much for that.
DeleteI think answers to favourite music or television show can actually change depending on when you're asked or whats even popular at the time. I know mine personally are different now then they would have been a few years ago.
DeleteAs for the show, I think only newer fans only really believe the narrative. Many older fans hate it and wish it has been more about the skating and less about their relationship. It would have been nicer to have seen a true behind the scene look. How they perfect a program, the training involved, etc. We all know the message they want to send about their "status". It was unnecessary to shove that down your throat so much that you could choke on it.
Before the show aired, V/M spent months pitching it as a behind-the-scenes play-by-play of their journey to the Olympic Games. They said they wanted that journey on record so they could look back and remember it with their family and friends.
DeleteFrom the first minute of the first episode, it was clear their show was intended to shove their fake status down the throats of fans/viewers. Every bit of it was an outright lie or an exaggeration based on a badly written script accumulated from fan board theories/speculations devised by fans who were twisting their brains into knots to try and accept the lies V/M were telling them in the first place.
"Tessa & Scott" was a vehicle intended to mock fans and hoax the public. That was the entire reason for its existence. Well, that and to make VM money off the hoax, I guess (either directly from the contract with the W Network or indirectly from the additional attention it would bring them).
^^^ WOW thats really stretching it.
DeleteIt's not stretching it at all. The show was comprised of LIES, LIES, and more LIES. It wasn't just an exaggerated, producer-edited version of their real life. It was based on a false premise of who V/M actually *are,* which is married parents. That is not speculation, THAT IS FACT.
DeleteThey fabricated an entire false narrative that they based the entire show on. The show wasn't a documentary following them around as they worked toward Sochi. It was essentially a scripted series that took a real life premise (that they're two figure skaters making a second run at an Olympics) and falsified almost everything around it.
Here's what's true in the series:
1. Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir are gold medal winning ice dancers who skate for Canada, train at Arctic Edge under the tutelage of Marina Zoueva and alongside Meryl Davis and Charlie White. They are originally from Ontario, Canada, which is still where they reside for part of the year.
2. They competed in ISU sponsored events, including two GP series events, as well as GPF and Canadian nationals.
That's what is true. The rest of it, all of the storylines: untrue. Scott Moir does not have a girlfriend named Cassandra Hilborn. She is a real person, but she is not in a relationship with him. He is married to Tessa Virtue and they have a child. He and Tessa do not live apart from one another in Canton, Michigan or in London, Ontario. They did not suffer communication issues that stemmed from an inability to understand each other because they're so different and keep their personal lives separate.
Go back and read the fanboards from the last four years. That show LITERALLY LIFTED speculation and fan fantasies and turned it into scripts for the show. LITERALLY. Some of those fans ought to sue for writing credit because they essentially wrote the scripts for that show. Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir lied directly to the viewers in each and every episode. The entire thing was part of the hoax they've been pulling on the public for over six or seven years now.
8:03, how is 5:11 stretching it? Or another way of asking is, which parts of the show were the real Tessa and Scott?
DeleteIt was nothing but fake soap opera.
dude with all that capslock and shit you're starting to sound like SenseandSpite.
DeleteHere's how it worked:
DeleteFor years, V/M have lied to fans about the real status of their relationship, declaring they are platonic when in fact they're not only romantically involved, but are married with a child. From the moment they started hitting the public over the head with that lie, but especially in the 2009-2010 Olympic year, fans tried to accept what they were told was true. They really wanted to believe V/M. The biggest reasons for that are:
1. Fans want V/M to appreciate them. Believing what V/M tell them is, in the minds of many of those fans, a way of reciprocating their love. "We love you and we want you to love us back."
2. Fans not only struggle to accept the notion they've been lied to, but also that they've fallen for it.
3. Whenever V/M lie, they telegraph their lies like motherfuckers. They can't just lie, they act like children stealing cookies from the cookie jar who walk up to their mother beforehand and say "I AM NOT ABOUT TO GO STEAL ANYTHING OUT OF THE COOKIE JAR." They hit people over the head when they lie. They can't just say, "we are platonic." Instead, they say "we are platonic. THIS IS THE REAL US. WE ARE BEING SINCERE WHEN WE TELL YOU THIS, AND WE'RE DOING SO BECAUSE WE APPRECIATE YOU AND WANT YOU TO SHARE IN OUR JOURNEY."
Fans on the message boards took all of that and formulated a bunch of story lines/theories about how V/M's platonic relationship actually works. There was lots of speculation about what kind of personalities they have, and how they function as a platonic pair who love each other but not in a romantic way, who kiss on the ice but oops it's just accidental or because their faces get too close when they skate their choreography. They've taken V/M's lies and tried to make them make sense, when of course they don't make any sense because THEY'RE LIES. But God bless those fans, they've tried. They've looked like idiots in the process, but they want to trust V/M, because V/M constantly remind those fans they're getting to see THE REAL THEM (even though that's not true).
For the show, the scriptwriters lifted from all of that fanboard speculation, mixed it together with the official "platonic" storyline V/M sell about themselves, and VOILA - there's the fake narrative.
When you lie to the fans, resulting in those fans making attempts to rationalize your lies to themselves, and then you use those failed rationalizations to form a significant basis of the fake narrative of your television show, then YES. You are outright mocking fans.
its obvious some parts of the show were scripted but to say ""Tessa & Scott" was a vehicle intended to mock fans and hoax the public. That was the entire reason for its existence." is really stretching it. v/m were not maniacally laughing like a bunch of evil disney villains/high-fiving themselves over how the show will totally mess with their fans minds when they filmed the scripted scenes. the purpose of v/m's show was to 1. increase fanbase/support 2. get normal everyday people who know nothing about figure skating into the sport. v/m have done so much for the sport of ice dancing meanwhile the isu/ioc continues to shoot itself in the foot
DeleteTry 99.9% of the show was scripted. Anything real that made it on to the air was completely accidental.
DeleteThe main purpose of this show was to push their sham agenda on to the public. You can kid yourself about fanbase all you want. This show as about the sham.
how can you exactly determine how much of their show was real??
DeleteScott has a girlfriend - not real.
DeleteTessa and Scott are platonic partners - not real.
Tessa is afraid of her own shadow - not real.
Scott is a punk who dictates who can date Tessa - not real.
Tessa and Scott live in separate homes - not real.
Tessa and Scott needed to be taught how to realistically touch each other and portray romance on the ice because it's foreign to them - not real.
Tessa's mother would like her to marry a nice French man someday - not real.
Tessa and Scott plan to live separate lives apart from one another after they retire from skating - not real.
Things are so tense between D/W and V/M they can't even change in the same changing room or talk to one another - likely not real or very exaggerated for dramatic effect.
Scott gets pissy during training sessions and curses at Marina - likely not real or very exaggerated for dramatic effect.
Scott experiences a back injury and gets doped up on painkillers - likely not real or exaggerated for dramatic effect (especially since it seemed all of those scenes were filmed on the same day)
I'm sure there's more but that's what's jumping off the top of my head.
how is that exactly 99.9% though?
Delete10:05 p.m. - really? You think the reality show was trying to get normal every day people who didn't know anything about the sport into the sport? Don't you think the show would have then focused on the sport? How come it didn't?
DeleteIt made VM out to be huge losers, on the ice and off. They weren't even good at skating. That's not how you get people into the sport.
Simply knowing the truth about their status - that they are married and have a child - THAT's how we know MOST of it was lies, not SOME of it was lies.
Absolutely. No one who has been a long-time fan thinks Cassandra's new profile picture means anything but a set up for a major sting. In Moirville religion, all these new shippers must be mocked and ridiculed with VM's special brand of genuine sincerety.
ReplyDeleteI agree all these shippers and their tumblers are full of stupid, but they don't deserve what is surely coming. No other group of fans, no matter how silly, are treated by their idols the way VM treat their social media fans. Moirville's Scott-sham is special that way.
Those fans are vociferously defending V/M against criticism because V/M have reiterated how important they are and that they aren't lying to them. V/M put smiles on their faces and proactively lead those people on, then turn around and use the trust they've gained to bait, hoax and mock those same fans. Oh, and also blame those fans for why they lie to them in the first place.
DeleteThat's not how you create a brand. That's called being assholes who take advantage of people because they can.
I could be wrong, but I don't feel like Cassandra is as malleable as Jessica. I think Cass signed on for the show, and now the contract is done. But I could be totally wrong about that.
DeleteI think only time will tell. I won't believe anything until we make it through the year without any new beach pictures.
DeleteWho knows, maybe Jessica makes an unexpected comeback if Cass has had enough lmao
When it comes to VM cribbing from and distorting their past, I believe one of their biggest gambits is to present Scott as someone the girls mega crushed on, Tessa among them. Giving him the power in the relationship. Scott had crazy energy and was sometimes just crazy but was also ultra sensitive and devoted to Tessa. I wonder why Moirville aren't comfortable with that, and have to flip it so the girl is the one who is insecure.
Delete"Scott had crazy energy and was sometimes just crazy but was also ultra sensitive and devoted to Tessa"
Deleteyou got that thing right. scott really is ... sweet. and can be ultra-sensitive sometimes. this is why i am ???? when people call him an asshole or a dbag.
5:18 - I've noticed the people who don't like Scott and like to insult him on the public skating boards are for the most part uber DW fans. They don't like VM anyhow and they *must* find any little nitpicky thing to act all sanctimonious in their dislike of Scott.
DeleteI think in general everyone loves both Tessa and Scott. The haters are only attempting to make their favorites look better. Who cares about their opinions.
tessa and scott have such a huge fanbase and its amazing how it increased two-fold duing the olympics. i can literally picture those who said "scott moir is such a douchebag/asshole" and/or "v/m are such assholes they dont deserve to medal" fuming at comments like "scott moir is soo sweet/nice i wanna marry scott moir" etc etc.
Delete5:18 - maybe you should ??? about why SCOTT and the reality show portrayed him as an insensitive, pathetic, 2-condom toting, pretentious, self-inflating, self-obsessed, arrogant douchebag and the love object of all the chicks. A guy who had all the choices - does he want his partner, does he want his gf, does he want to throw his leg over somebody else entirely in Sochi.
DeleteThat's not something fans did.
on a shallow note, wow tessa looks really pretty in these screencaps
ReplyDeleteI was looking for the latest uploaded VM vids on Youtube, when I noticed that Roots Canada uploaded (or re-uploaded) their post-Vancouver, post-2010 worlds vid of VM (the publish date says March 5, 2014). I suppose they're capitalizing on the pair's present hype/visibility?
ReplyDeleteETA: Nevermind. On second look, it seems that the channel was created recently (all videos uploaded in past few days)
We can edit comments?
DeleteMakes one wonder about the theory that Roots dropped V/M because of the hoax. Maybe it wasn't Roots who dropped V/M after all, but rather the other way around.....
Delete7:59 - Tessa and Scott were extremely stoked about Roots. Roots would never just dump them. If it played out as suspected, then it was a "we'd love to continue this relationship but we need authenticity (IOW, you can't simultaneously present yourselves as platonic and dating others while pregnant and married) because this could blow up in our brand's face on the back end. We rely upon the grass-roots, trust-based relationship we've developed with the Canadian public and can't exploit it."
DeleteScott and Tessa: "We're not prepared to come clean - or drop the sham."
Roots "Are you sure, because to reiterate, we can't go forward under those conditions. We understood you were going to come clean."
Scott and Tessa: "Things have changed - Tessa's gaining weight all over instead of projecting conspicuously in front - we think we can push this through another 4 years, easy."
Roots: "Is that your final position."
Scott and Tessa: "Yep."
Roots: "And you understand we can't continue the relationship if that is your position?"
Scott and Tessa: "Yes."
That's how it ends up "mutual."
What about other sponsors though? Do they just not know? Or not care? I
DeleteThe other sponsors didn't have the same type of relationship, I suspect. Scott and Tessa promote their other sponsors. They would have represented Roots. Also, Roots is about lifestyle, about Canada - they do this whole outreach schtick where Roots is more than clothes. We don't just partner with the famous - we partner with the yoga teacher in your neighborhood! They can't have a couple of liars mocking the fans as the face of their brand. It would damage their brand.
Deleteoc
I was thinking about this can anyone even explain why D/W deserved to win?
ReplyDeleteNo.
DeleteI find it highly ironic that the DW ubers called their thread " And that's why they're Olympic champions " when no DW fan ever could actually point out why DW are supposedly better. These are the people who called VM fans crazy and lunatic because they actually dared to look at the skating.
DeleteLMAO, good point Anon at 4:15.
DeleteMaybe they could call it "Davis & White: We don't have enough time on our hands to explain but they're better, just read the protocols and Icenetwork."
There is no reason their skating deserved to win. That might be why we heard so much about all the non-skating reasons they deserved to win.
DeleteAlthough most of what was claimed for their skating - more difficult program - NO, best technique - NO, faster - NO - was bullshit.
But they've been unbeaten since 2012! They didn't need no fix, they've been beating V/M since WTT 2012!
DeleteThese commentators are morons...so they are acknowledging V/M are the better skaters with the better skills, but they are questioning the FD and it's composition. What.the.hell. It's about the skating skills, people!
ReplyDeleteV/M:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqM6-Fh-o-0
D/W: nothing about skills, only that it is "physically demanding". Well, duh, it is a sport, presumably.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrFwokp3z48
I get your point, but I find it hard to be angry when they are literally the ONLY people (besides that one article by Beverley Smith) to say "V/M have better skating skills".
DeleteIf it is about the skating skills, which it should be, then why are they so fussed about the "composition" of the program? WTF does that mean? It goes back to the stupid program vs program argument. It's about the skating skills, and V/M's programs are best "composed" to showcase their skills.
DeleteThere is a stupid convo going on at Goldenshit saying essentially the same thing, and totally contradicting themselves:
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?49007-2014-Olympics-Free-Dance&p=882443&viewfull=1#post882443
"Unfortunately as I see it V/M played it even more safe than D/W and sort of had a flat program (complements of Ms. Zueva) making it difficult for them to earn gold. I think come Olympics time the judges want to be impressed. Neither of V/M dances allowed them to be seen in a new light (my opinion here). The impression I got watching them most of the season was same old same old, while at the same time really admiring their skating skills. "
WTF is a "flat" program? And really, did they see D/W's Shez? That was a flat program...skated entirely on flats and flattened out by it's own laborious execution.
Skating skills is only one of the pcs categories. Presumably the commentators thought that their program wasn't effective in showing off their skills in the other categories.
Delete"Skating skills is only one of the pcs categories. Presumably the commentators thought that their program wasn't effective in showing off their skills in the other categories."
DeleteNO, NO, NO. That's not how it works and if any judge tried to explain the system as such, she or he should get as ass-kicking. Skating skills do not exist independently of everything else. The choreography mark is not for the existence of the choreography itself. It's for the choreography AS IT IS SKATED IN THE MOMENT. Meaning - concerning the blades on the ice.
V/M can't have the best skating skills in the world, get super high marks for them in the "skating skills" category, but get downgraded in the choreography mark and it be acceptable. The blade work is the basis of the choreography. It drives the depth of the edges, the size of the ice coverage and patterns, the utilization of space between the skaters, phrasing, form, etc. All of what is actually graded in the choreography mark.
So many people think the choreography itself should get high marks regardless of how it's actually skated. That's not how it works (or is supposed to work, anyway).
Anon 8:50: Bang on. And using the same lazy logic of the commentators, somebody please explain how D/W's insipid choreography displayed better "composition"? Because it sure as hell wasn't a display of good skills, or any skill for that matter, unless you consider "hustle" a skill.
DeleteNot to mention, DW were scored higher for skating skills than VM.
DeleteIt was corruption, plain and simple. DW weren't doing either of the things that the sport is about - using their edge, and dancing.
This is interesting: http://www.thewire.com/culture/2014/03/ioc-printed-fake-quotes-kim-yu-na-praising-adelina-sotnikova/358956/
ReplyDeleteThe IOC fabricated quotes from Yuna regarding the result of the ladies competition in Sochi.
GOOD GRIEF.
DeleteV/M need to quit going around in interviews saying things like "we knew what we were getting into when we started skating competitively, the sport has always been subjective." They may be covering their own asses with those quotes because they don't want an investigation into what happened to them (for whatever reason) or know that one isn't going to happen, but please with the "it's subjective" crap. Subjectivity is not the same thing as an outright hoaxing of the public. Planting false quotes to reinforce false scores - that is the sign of deep-seated corruption.
"What isn't helping is that the sport's governing bodies are pretending like the complaints have been quashed. The International Skating Union's basic message is that they stand by the result, though they have been caught deleting and blocking users on social media and removing pieces of their contact information to tamp down dissent. Using made-up quotes that make Kim seem complicit with the result only bring up more questions."
DeleteI'm SHOCKED to learn of this! Except, wait. No I'm not...
What do you want them to say? "Ice dance isn't a real sport"? "The judging system is completely corrupt -- but wasn't corrupt when we won"? Launch into a technical analysis of why they should have won?
Delete"The International Skating Union's basic message is that they stand by the result, though they have been caught deleting and blocking users on social media and removing pieces of their contact information to tamp down dissent. "
DeleteI wonder if the ISU and USFSA are also the ones who supposedly contacted FSU to make them shut down all V/M discussion.
"What do you want them to say? "Ice dance isn't a real sport"? "The judging system is completely corrupt -- but wasn't corrupt when we won"? Launch into a technical analysis of why they should have won?"
DeleteOh, what I wouldn't give...
But seriously, I think they'd be far better off saying that the results were out of their control, rather than saying the sport is subjective and that's just the way it is and oh well.
Prancer admitted that the USFSA has contacted them in the past ( of course she went on to say none of the DW camp ever made any complains ... ) so I don't have a hard time believing they are also behind the shut down of any critical discussion regarding DW.
DeleteThe Sotnikova/Kim threads are full of accusations of cheating and bribery yet that doesn't seem to be an issue.
Is it believable when Prancer claims the FBI has contacted FSU in the past ? This sounds just too ridiculous to be true. After all this is nothing but a skating forum.
IMO, it won't surprise me if the FBI had contacted FSU in the past. I think that the possibility, however slim, exists. Maybe somewhere in the deep dark archives, there have been posts that caused the Feds to take a closer look, perhaps posts about skaters/coaches/officials/fans who were rumored to have been acting suspiciously/nefariously.
DeleteCrimes and crazies exist everywhere, even in skating. At times I see the sequins and the camp, but then I remember that this is the sport that gave rise to the Harding scandal. There are coaches who have been rumored to be perverts. A number of skaters have been stalked, from Katarina Witt to Yu-Na Kim. Some skating people have been involved in drugs, whether using or dealing (Bowman, Bobek, DW's old coach), and some have been hassled by the mob (Butyrskaya).
I think it's possible that there have been times when certain posts might have made someone uncomfortable/suspicious enough that this would have been reported to the authorities.Perhaps in a case of alleged sexual harassment by a coach, in the course of the police's investigation, they might ask FSU's owner's cooperation in contacting users who have posted about that person and might know/might be potential witnesses. A poster might have gone too far in going after a certain skater's personal info, and his/her actions might be seen as stalking (or at least the early stages of it).
Most of the time I do think that skating message boards are fairly harmless, discussing skating, preferences, rivalries, judging etc. But many skaters, their families, skating 'insiders', fans, and coaches/officials read/lurk/post in forums to some extent. People who are privy to other people's affairs, whether professional or otherwise.
I do think that some people overreacted to the 'Meryl is snooty/snobby' rumor, which is tame as far as rumors go.
No offense to Anon @4:12, but I don't believe for one moment that the FBI has ever contacted FSU. I am out and out calling Prancer a liar on that. It's just an excuse so that she can shut down any threads or discussions that she doesn't like. If she wants to take me to civil court about that (because the police don't come knocking on your door for libel) then I dare her. Or, she can post,as proof, a copy of the email with no information from it redacted. Any while I don't post there, I do read FSU, and I've never read anything there that would even cause me for one moment to report something to the authorities, much less the FBI.
Delete6:18 - I agree. People get grandiose. Skating is such a niche sport and yet so intense. People who are involved in skating's online fandom need to get out of the hothouse before they start getting histrionic.
DeleteI remember when the blog started people were thinking the police were going to come knocking at the door or the blog would disappear. I don't believe for one second any authority has ever contacted fsu ever. It's a pretext.
oc
@6:18 Fair enough. Prancer actually has not been consistent in his/her logic towards banning posters (as mentioned earlier, the Sotnikova/Kim thread). I still don't think that in its long history FSU has never ever been contacted by some sort of police authority (Feds or not). It might even just have to do with a specific user and not specific posts. I just think the (very slight) possibility exists; probability is another matter.
DeleteIt's amazing how much propaganda there is in skating, and how powerless the media and the public are against it, mostly because it's their own fault. Most of them don't bother to teach themselves anything about the sport. Nothing will change until the fans of the sport and the media that covers it takes the trouble to teach themselves technique. It's not rocket science. It's observable, and it repeats. It's built on the easily apprehended basics of edgework. But for the simple fact that the public focuses on the package and the media focuses on the package (everything from the ankles up) a corrupt sport takes center stage every four years while the media debates whether a particular outcome is legit or not. WHY IS THERE A DEBATE? What is there to debate? When there are clear sightlines, is there really a debate about a touchdown? A line call? So many words are wasted on something the people discussing can verify or not for themselves, but they don't bother.
DeleteWhat happened with DW and VM was corrupt, plane and simple. It's not weighing competing values. DW aren't DOING it.
Weighing competing values in skating would be this - Skater A does a series of steps and turns into a triple or combination, maybe even uses a blind entrance. The jump takes off on the proper edge, is fully rotated, and is landed cleanly.
Skater B strokes into the jump, no steps and turns. The jump is clean and HUGE - tons of hang time, high in the air, and covers major ice and lands on a clean outside edge.
That's where you weigh values.
This isn't possible with Davis White and Virtue Moir because Davis White aren't skating their program. Nor dancing.
I am doubtful that FSU has been contacted by the police and/or FBI. However, I do suspect that they have been advised or it has been suggested to them that the criticism of DW and talking about corruption and Shawn Rettstatt be shut down.
DeleteOne current FSU poster was Tanith Belbin's immigration lawyer in the past. This person is also either a friend or cousin of Ben Agosto's. This person has ties to the DW camp via the Tanith connection. This poster was also one of the first, if not the first, to post after the stop at 4CC last year with the claim that Tessa was faking the injury. I wouldn't put it past camp DW to have this person suggest that FSU shut some of these discussions down because there might be trouble. I'm not a lawyer, but whether they could have actually caused real trouble for the board is something I question because I just don't see how.
" This person has ties to the DW camp via the Tanith connection. This poster was also one of the first, if not the first, to post after the stop at 4CC last year with the claim that Tessa was faking the injury." I'm not surprised considering how Jacqui White reacted. D/W are such assholes for enabling this behaviour.
DeleteHow did Jacqui White react ? I missed that.
DeleteShe liked a comment on facebook about D/W not needing to take a break during their program.
DeleteSometimes people just posture. That could be what's going on here. In the early days of the internet apparently some actors thought they could wade into fan discussion and threaten to shut it down. Some people in the public eye were a little slow to understand that if they publicized their email (which never happens now), fans could use it and they could be impolite without legal repercussions. A lot of fans and regular people still don't understand how it works and think they can be punished somehow for talking in public about what a public person has said and done in public (not just what a public person has said and done ON THE WEB, but what a public person has said and done in public).
DeleteJust to connect back to the blog, for instance, just because Scott and Tessa's marriage isn't publicized or officially acknowledged doesn't mean it's classified information. It's not classified information. It's also public information. You really can't say, in the legal sense, it's okay for my family, my community, my sport, a bunch of the media, and quite a few fans to know I'm married because we announced it and don't hide it, but don't go on the web without permission. Nope. No permission is needed.
I know. Calling out V/M for lying to the public for years and building a television show around it, and highlighting the corruption that surrounds the sport of figure skating (and ice dance in particular) is SO DISGUSTING.
ReplyDeleteThank goodness you dropped by to set everybody straight. PHEW.
Try harder next time.
"criticizing" is a more proper way to describe what this blog does. that being said, some of the stuff said here is really stretching it
ReplyDeleteThe most cringe-inducing interview EVER. Meryl's baby-doll voice is enough to make you want to tear your eyes out.
ReplyDeleteAnd Michelle Kwan must want to snatch those gold medals for the two that she didn't earn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqA_C-PHYEI
Well, yes, her voice is annoying. Actually, I find both Meryl and Scott's voices cringe-worthy. Tessa's voice is ok. I like Charlie's the best. But I can't stand all four of them when they're spouting scripted stuff (and that's almost all of time).
DeletePoor Michelle Kwan. She must be thinking, "how the fuck do those two hacks have a gold medal and I don't?"
DeleteEh, I don't mind Scott's voice. I don't love it, but I don't hate it either. And in all his interviews in Sochi, he was very articulate. Meryl and Charlie are not only annoying in interviews, you get the sense the sense THEY don't even know WTF they're talking about when it comes to their skating...its just a point of talking points spoonfed to them by the USFSA.
I always love the LOL that accompanies these sorts of comments. It's a way for the visitor to pretend they're not invested at all, oh no.
ReplyDeleteoc
I agree. The blogger crosses the line from analyzing a sport and its competitors to an insane dialogue about nothing. Pure stalking as u say. Someone needs to get a life and medication. Just creepy.
ReplyDeletei think the appeal of this blog is that we can go on anon and criticize d/w without having cray stans and power hungry mods coming after us.
Delete9:00 AM - I discourage people having conversations with themselves or agreeing with themselves on this blog.
DeleteBahaha. I love how that original commenter took the inane bitching of his/her first post and reformulated it into the one above (9:00 AM) to make it seem more "valid."
DeleteSomeone needs to get a life, indeed. The whiny anons who complain about this blog in the comments also seem to have low IQs, given by how and what they write. "U R so crazy omg such a stalker LOL!" Either that or they're all twelve year old girls.
Criticizing is an understatement
ReplyDeleteserious understatement
Dubemoir blogger--You dont even have a clue how sick you are, do you? Get help.
ReplyDelete@2:53
DeleteYou know what - instead of throwing around insults why don't you refute any of the blogger's premises. Logically and with facts, without resorting to name-calling. Go ahead. Show with specificity, rationally, which part of the blog is incorrect. We're all waiting with baited breath.
2:53, that's enough.
DeleteI say let them lie away. I hope they continue to lie.
ReplyDeleteTheir personal lives are none of your business, my business, anyone's business. Your job as a fan is to decide whether or not to enjoy their skating and follow it. That's all you get to do. That is not a free ticket into their personal lives.
And I find it interesting that you guys haven't found one thing worth reporting to the FBI on FSU...and yet I've read comments on this blog about someone threatening to post photos of the reported VM child (if one exists) and posting it on twitter. That's worthy of some legal attention. Child or no child, no one has the right to invade another person's privacy like that. And threatening to post photos of a minor...yeah that's certainly worth a look into.
Just sayin'. :)
Nobody threatened to post a picture of the child. Some posters simply said they would post it if they had one - emphasis on if.
ReplyDeleteOnly that one weirdo fRom FSU read it wrong and spread the rumor.
How exactly does this invade anybody's privacy ?
I'm appalled by the hypocrisy of some FSU posters who spent months ( if not years ) condemning everything Russian but now can't stop.gushing about how Meryl " charmed " Putin and how attractive he must find her ...
ReplyDeleteI know, I saw those pictures of her receiving (as I call it) "The Kiss of Hitler" (sue me, FSU!) and I have no idea why they think, especially with what's going on in the Ukraine, this is something to be proud of. And yet, isn't it funny that these pictures were no where to be found on Ice Network, or in Skating Magazine? And yes, perhaps Putin found her attractive, if he was in the throes of a vodka induced stupor.....
Deleteyep meryl def. charmed putin. thats how she got her gold medal ;)
DeleteWell, *some* DW fans (as with *some* fans in any fandom) have very narrow concerns. Forget the Ukraine - somebody important appears to be validating Meryl as attractive!
DeletePriorities, people.
It is Ukraine, not "the" Ukraine. Educate yourself.
DeleteI'm not OC but I am fully aware of and educated about the issue of using or not using the definite article (and how it is perceived by Ukranians themselves), yet I still slip sometimes and accidentally write it as "the Ukraine."
Delete9:39, the sham became my business when VM decided to proactively hoax the public and their fans. It's not like they simply kept their personal life on the down low. They baited, they played gotcha, they set people up, and they teased and mocked. They didn't just throw shade on their real personal circumstances to keep things private; they created elaborate lies and took advantage of the good will of their fans. That's what people have the problem with--the gotcha game playing. If VM had just said "we keep our private life private" and not played the games, then no one would have felt compelled to come forward about VM's true status.
ReplyDeleteIf VM had simply elected to keep their private life private, then there would be no problem. It's the fact that they did not accomplish this using common professional means. They purposely bait and set fans up, then pull a gotcha. That's not cool.
Here's the problem with your argument, @9:39 PM. OC has never come out and said the intent of this blog is to force V/M to do anything, nor has there been any written directive to reveal photos of V/M's child.
ReplyDelete"...and yet I've read comments on this blog about someone threatening to post photos of the reported VM child (if one exists) and posting it on twitter."
Oh for God's sake, that's not what was said during that conversation. There was no "threat" made, that comment was written as a hypothetical, first of all. Secondly, it was in reference to a person seeing V/M out in public, photographing them, and then sharing the photo on twitter. That's not even illegal.
Please go back and show us where the blogger has ever said that V/M should be stalked and have their real personal life forcibly outed to the public. That's never happened. People who don't like this blog have equated criticism of V/M's lying, and the reposting of photos V/M's families/friends made public themselves, with stalking (yes, posting something on FB, instagram, or twitter is making it public, read the terms of service of each social media platform if you don't believe that). That's a ridiculous an inaccurate definition of what stalking is, but it's the easiest, most scary sounding "threat" they can come up with, even though its baseless.
If V/M kept their personal lives to themselves and said "it's our business, not that of the fans" I highly doubt it would cause so much annoyance/anger. I can only speak for myself, but I would respect that. It would be a perfectly acceptable reason for them to keep their personal life private. That's not what V/M are doing. They are fabricating a fake personal life in order to shove it in the faces of fans, then telling them "this is the real us, we want to give you access!" They're doing it to make money, or gain fame, or whatever. It's NOT being done to maintain their privacy. They WANT fans to be interested in that fake private life and to make it their business, they go out of their way to make that happen, and then they mock the fans when they fall for it.
The public they're openly trying to dupe and hoax has a right to call them on that, just as the public has a right to call out any other athlete for his/her lying to them.
" They baited, they played gotcha, they set people up, and they teased and mocked. They didn't just throw shade on their real personal circumstances to keep things private; they created elaborate lies and took advantage of the good will of their fans. That's what people have the problem with--the gotcha game playing." wow everything about this
ReplyDeletesentence just screams entitlement sorry
V/M fans are such poor innocent victims right?
Yes, 11:13 PM. Heaven knows the fans who are being baited and hoaxed by people in order to make money and further their fame are acting ENTITLED when they call them out on it.
ReplyDeleteAre you one of those people who believe celebrities have a right to fuck with people's heads *because* they're celebrities and it's the fault of the people being fucked with for falling for it? I'm guessing you might be. Blame the victims by claiming they put themselves in that position in the first place, wheee! If so, I think you'd fit in with Moirville very nicely (if you don't already).
Fuck that. If a celebrity is deliberately targeting fans via lying and hoaxing while profiting from the money fans spend on them, the fans have two options. They can refuse to give those celebrities their money and support for those actions, and they can call them out on their bullshit. Nowhere is it written fans can't do both things at the same time. Neither option has anything to do with entitlement.
Lord.
If you go to a restaurant that actively pursues your business and then purposefully serves you bad food, is it acting entitled to publicly criticize that restaurant or call its owners out for that action?
@11:13, do you think the public has the right to criticize or call out the ISU for the scoring hinkiness at the Olympics? More specifically, that the public has the right to call out the ISU and IOC for trying to shut down any discussion of that scandal on public message boards?
ReplyDeleteAfter all, the ISU and IOC actively market the sport of figure skating to the public. They want the public to open up their wallets, spend money by attending competitions or getting involved in the sport, etc.
Do you feel the public criticizing the ISU or IOC's handling of the situation, given both organizations' repeated attempts to market the sport, is an example of the public acting entitled?
V/M are hoaxing the public. They incorporated that hoax into a book and a television show, both of which were things intended to either put money directly into their pockets or to line them indirectly via some other means. And you think the public calling them on that is an act of entitlement?
11:30 holy hell victim complex
ReplyDeletebtw there is a difference between strictly calling out v/m on their lies and and stretching their lies.
what certain anons (like you) are doing is stretching their lies meaning you are going further from the truth. and that just makes you a bunch of liars as well.
Oh please tell us how we're "stretching" V/M's lies.
ReplyDeleteThey are married with a child. On their show, they not only denied that, they created an entire narrative revolving around their not only being platonic, but unable to communicate with one another due to their differences, which they claimed is the reason they'll go their separate ways when they are done skating. All of that is a lie. But calling that out is stretching their lies, I take it?
Or no, wait. Maybe it's the calling out V/M for playing fans for fools, which is something you seem to object to. Because, I don't know why. You don't want to admit you've been played? You think they would never do such a thing based on your own assumptions of who they are as people based only on their interactions with the public in the first place?
Here is what V/M did with their show - they took fan-created storylines and fabricated them into a narrative they claimed was the truth about who they are as people and skaters. That is an outright mocking of the fans and a hoaxing of the public. Claiming that people calling V/M out for their proactive, poor treatment of fans is representative of those fans playing victim is an incredibly failed, sad attempt to rationalize away how V/M act in the public eye. It's also indicative of you not being able to argue against what was written in the two posts above yours, so you've resorted to labeling people with a "complex." Try harder next time.
And please with the "they are very kind to fans during the meet and greets, especially the Russian fans!" argument. V/M were indeed kind and gracious during those events. They also utilized them as opportunities to lie directly to fans' faces. You are welcome to claim that doesn't make them assholes, but the people who object to being lied to as a means of fostering a bunch of fake bullshit (of which V/M claim is a "brand" they are using to sell themselves) are not playing "victim." To make that claim is pathetic.
ReplyDeleteHey, when Meryl Davis "appropriated" Indian culture, were the people complaining about it suffering from a holy hell victim complex? When V/M were screwed by the ISU at the Olympics, are the fans of ice dance who claim they also got gypped playing the victim too? Are the fans on FSU who are being threatened with (probably fake) libel lawsuits for giving their opinions about D/W's actions over the past month just big fat whiny losers who should get over the fact that their team lost and they're the only fans being threatened by admins who seemingly allow far worse comments to remain on the board with no consequence? Hmm?
Let me add to this discussion.
ReplyDeleteVM manipulated fans on SOCIAL MEDIA. That is an egalitarian platform that they treated as a one-way street. The blog, in part, was created to demonstrate that it certainly wasn't a one-way street, and anything they did on social media, the public was entitled to question on social media - or anywhere else on the web, such as the blog. They were the ones who acted entitled - as if because they were the athletes, they control the discourse on social media and fans had no choice but to play dumb and enable their narrative. No. That's not how social media works and most athletes with professional management understand that when they engage on social media, and are professional with what they put on social media.
Up is down and inside is out in figure skating as a "sport" and in the fandom, so of course somebody objecting to this blog is going to claim the blog is entitled. Apparently only VM and their connections get to be entitled. Fans aren't entitled to NOT be fools - they only get to play dumb and help VM fuck them over.
I disagree that VM should have simply said "no comment" or "our private life is private and we don't talk about it" - for some reason, that doesn't seem to work for many athletes (or other celebrities). The sham in and of itself isn't the problem. Plenty of people slap a fake, place holder romantic interest into their marketing schemes to sort of shield themselves against media speculation.
VM went way beyond that. First of all, manipulating, baiting and switching, and setting up fans became obvious sport for their connections and community on social media. During the brief period Scott had a fan page on facebook, he set up and played "gotcha" with fans all the time - it was humiliating for them. (And just because a fan excuses it doesn't make it NOT humiliating). He requested fan input for his next profile photo, prompting fans to link suggestions, come out of the woodwork with their ideas, all of them appropriate, courteous, respectful, all of them grateful he'd actually, proactively engaged with them for once, all of them basically trying to prove that if he did it more often they would all respect the boundaries. And it turned out to be bullshit. After days of suggestions and thoughtful responses from fans, he slapped up a photo of Fred and Audrey, as he'd intended all along. Ha ha - I know you wanted me and Tessa! I know you were so careful to say you meant a candid photo of me and Tessa (candid, not "personal"). But it's Fred and Audrey and we're playing Fred and Audrey!
IOW, his request for suggestions was a set up. It's FUNNY to have fans think you're sincere.
They're mean. There was absolutely no need for Scott to tell the media he and Tessa were headed to Monaco for a "romantic trip" after Worlds 2010, but it just made it more fun when Alma put an album on her public facebook about "After Torino - our trip to Monaco" and it turned out to be Jessica spam. Scott baited with him and Tessa so it would be more fun when fans got the pie in their face from Alma.
The other stuff - marketing a book as oh so candid when the reality is they're married and pregnant and the book is all about the unique platonic closeness they share - is a whole other area. But the blog began because of the mean. They were proactively mean, and they used an egalitarian, two-way street platform to do it, behaving as if it were a one way street platform that they controlled. They don't.
Call me crazy but I don't necessarily believe VM get off on hoaxing the public. That might be the case, I just don't see enough to prove it. IMO the sham is mainly born of desperation, stupidity, and very backwards notions of privacy. If they really wanted privacy, they failed miserably, because now every comment gets parsed and analyzed to death.
ReplyDeleteI believe they think they need the sham, and I think they might be right. I only became aware of this blog a year ago, so I used to fall for everything. I so badly wanted them to start dating after Vancouver, even though I knew, from the FSU gossip, he was "with" Jessica. When I read about the jacket from the ex, I thought "maybe..." but then someone posted a link to Cassandra's pictures and I was like, "ok then." I mostly followed them at competitions, not galas, so while Tessa looked a little thicker at 2011 4CC, I thought it was from taking time off the ice and it never occurred to me she had been pregnant (looking back now, I see she was already much bigger BEFORE the surgery, and was clearly pregnant).
I do notice that in the VM fandom, anytime it appears both are single at the same time, the fans immediately all assume they're getting together (naturally). You can see this dynamic occurring right now with the new picture of Cassandra and some other guy. So, since it's so important to VM for people to think they're NOT together (and this is what I can't understand), they pretty much have to have a sham significant other in the picture. Other skaters may be able to get away with "our private lives are private," but in their case, people will assume that they're together (why this is such bad thing, I have no fucking clue).
So I see the sham and the hoaxing as something protectionist. Again, I don't get it, but I don't necessarily impute evil intent. I lean toward stupidity and psychological.
When Scott says "if I could trade places with anyone, it would be my brother because he has a beautiful daughter" or Tessa poses with a parenting book, I interpret that as a misguided attempt at reverse psychology, not mindfucking the public. Again, of course, I could be wrong, and I don't blame the fans who believe otherwise. When I first started PMing people about the sham, but before I had a source who confirmed they were married with a child, I was totally open to believing it, but I would see things like that and say "come on, no one with a child would do or say something like that." And I think that was the point. It's so absurd that it makes people think the sham can't possibly be true. It pushes all the fans who were on the bubble back to believing their narrative.
As for the show, I don't defend it at all, it's horrible. They looked so miserable. They were acting, but why would you want to act miserable and disconnected when you don't have to? It doesn't seem like a pleasant exercise. It seems like they doubled down because this would really close the door, so they thought, on fans considering them a couple. Because who would do that show if they were married?! It also provides cover for them because then they can act as romantic as they want at the Olympics.
I just don't know what they're thinking, or what their exit plan is. They can't possibly continue to 2018, because they'll have a 7 year old who will tell her teachers that mommy and daddy are in the Olympics... this mess is inextricable. But not necessarily evil. As for making money, they would've made a lot more if they'd come out as a family, IMO.
If you don't think they get off on it then you didn't follow it. It's far more than protectionist.
ReplyDeleteProtect against what? What fans THINK? That's impossible. That's none of their business. A sham exists so that a public couple doesn't have to entertain questions about their private life. As long as they are officially not a couple, and if there's a fake girlfriend or boyfriend as insurance, that is all you need. What fans think and speculate is far far beyond the scope of ANY celebrity's business.
Furthermore, the idea that fans are on them is myth. Outside of the Olympic cycle, the fandom is concentrated on the web. And THIS is the only place where discussion of their coupledom is permitted. On every other message board it is SHUT DOWN. The fans themselves shut it down.
Your opinion about the sham being a defensive stance is contradicted both by fan behavior and Tessa and Scott's PROACTIVE behavior. Time and time again fans have wanted to know about the skating, time and time again Virtue and Moir have redirected their attention to the relationship. When fans believed the sham that's when Virtue and Moir would rattle the cages of the fans and hint about their own status. Got your attention? Good. Gotcha!
Last season the fans were obsessed with Carmen. They adored Carmen. Last season the fans were all about the skating. Tessa and Scott commenced whining that the fans objected to Carmen and actually had begun to confuse Carmen and Tessa. It was bullshit.
What you're saying is idealistic but it has no connection to the reality of Scott and Tessa's behavior for the past five years.
IOW, speculation is only speculation. People speculate about Meryl and Charlie. There were some fans who felt wounded that, on one trip, Tanith traded places so she'd sit next to Charlie instead of Meryl. Fans felt as if it must be hurtful to Meryl. Where does that come from? Why would fans think Meryl gave a shit? Fans speculate that Meryl has a crush on Charlie and he can't see her.
ReplyDeleteThis has no bearing on reality. It's fan conversation. You can't control fan conversation. You can't control what fans THINK. It's all noise. Fans like to talk to each other about common interests, and when they don't know anything they develop theories and they speculate and then move on. It doesn't help that most skating fans are uninterested in skating technique and don't talk about that, and they appropriate some of the terminology of figure skating and apply it instead to the package.
Even Jessica freaking Simpson said once that she had to realize that what fans thought was NONE OF HER business.
So IOW, no, you don't need a gigantic matrix of lies in order to protect yourself against fans hoping you'll date or suspecting you may date. None of that has any impact on your actual life whatsoever. It's gossip. Gossip just like the gossip that doesn't bother them - that there was a triangle with Scott and Bryce and Jessica and Scott and Bryce had a fistfight and then had to have joint counseling for months. That Tessa busted up Pelletier and Sale. That Tessa and Tanith were at odds because Fedor jumped from Tanith to Tessa. None of that fazed VM.
None of the fan speculation about VM possibly dating effects VM. Privacy means that their child is out of the spotlight, that their relationship is protected and the door is shut to the media and to the fans. It already IS shut. "We're not a couple." "We're dating other people."
There is no need to PROVE it. Why do you think they have to prove it? Why do you believe they NEED to use reverse psychology? None of that is a need.
And this is setting aside the reality fans can't and won't see - their privacy is not breached by FANS or the media, but by their own gigantic family and extended family, community and connections. The skating world itself? Also knows, but there's more privacy there. What's more troublesome? A public that is largely an abstraction 90% of your life, a public that exists only in two dimensions, or hundreds of people who actually know you up your ass and in your business, speculating, gossiping, keeping each other up with the latest, all not only up your business, but eager for a piece of you and their shot at reflected glory?
ReplyDeleteThe sham was like a chew toy for these people. We're not the problem.
Interesting comments OC. I think that for 95% of fans, just saying he has a girlfriend and showing a facebook photo would be enough (it was for me). They need a sham because otherwise people will assume they're together, but not this elaborate setup. I think they think they need it, and I don't know why. It's dumb and they've done such a piss poor job at it that they've invited soooo much more speculation than they would have by just showing a few pictures of Cassandra as the fake gf. For example, they keep mentioning their living situation, it always contradicts, and fans keep hunting down old quotes and photos about it. If they hadn't brought it to their forefront, nobody would have been searching for their address online. They have no professional representation. This is what a Hollywood sham looks like when it's run by idiots.
ReplyDeleteThe idiots would be Moirville. The sham looks like them. ADD, a little bit entitled, no grasp of the big picture (that bird's eye view is something all of them could use from time to time) and a bit meanspirited with an "us and them" mentality. Very insular and parochial.
ReplyDeleteFans aren't the problem. Fans are easily managed with professional representation running the show - or even without professional representation if common sense is brought into the picture.
Scott and Tessa always say their relationship is "unique". It's not - everybody's relationship is unique. That's so ridiculous. Their circumstances might be unique, but the most unique component of their circumstances isn't what exists between Scott and Tessa, but Moirville. A huge family running the skating club in a skating centric town, so they more or less run the town - at least as far as who's voice is heard, and who are the big kahunas.
Fans are the scapegoat. VM pretend fans are the problem because they didn't manage their community and extended family with any maturity. Instead, they pandered to and diverted that community with the sham. "It's not you guys - it's THEM (the fans)." Moirville is only too happy to let themselves off the hook and pretend fans - outsiders - are the problem. It's mutual enabling.
9:17 - as to their address on line - a few months before that came up here, I learned from reading a non-skating blog (it was a shelter blog) how easily your average reader could find an address (and owner, and sale price, and every other particular) just going off an image of the property and a vague idea of the region. This might be new to skating fans but it's apparently common knowledge with all kinds of people - maybe a lot of people are interested in real estate, because a lot of people know how to find out who bought it, exactly what property it was, and for how much in about thirty seconds and this is a common practice. I didn't know it because it's not an interest of mine. But anyone who puts a photo of their property on line had better know it.
ReplyDeleteAlthough it's not an interest of mine, if I were going to go on television, a reality show, with a fake narrative of my life, I might check this stuff out before letting my actual home be used for a pretend exterior shot of someone else's home. It might help for me to know BEFORE that if I did that, a curious person could probably find out the property address and find out that I owned it, not the person the show pretended lived there.
If you go this big - KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
Fans have been dumb a long time. Scott and Tessa kiss each other on the ice and it's not a kiss, they fell on each other's lips. Scott and Tessa are on video and in news archives and competition archives as being together during their "rift" and fans look straight past it and just pretend they don't see it. Tessa gradually gained a lot of weight while also showing clear skin, bright eyes, fantastic muscle tone and plenty of energy while wearing bulky clothing and drawing attention to her legs and hair, and she just ate a lot of chocolate and then got hold of herself and dropped the extra pounds.
But that's not NORMAL. You have to work hard to be that dumb. It's not really the baseline. It's below the baseline, even for the internet, even for fans. It requires fans working hard to believe them. VM behaved as if it's the baseline. What is on the web is public domain. Some fans seem to believe that Scott and Tessa own the web. They don't. What they put on the web belongs to everybody. That's how the web works.
Not all the fans are dumb. Some just don't pay close attention to off-ice. Others are just trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Weight gain from eating chocolate is more realistic than a fantastical story about being secretly married and hiding a pregnancy while skating high-risk elements (which was actually the truth, but so crazy that it's hard to believe if you don't know it for a fact). A lot of fans have been questioning things for a long time but it really is such an insane situation that it's hard to take that leap of faith into believing and seeing the truth for what it is. A sham of that scope has, afaik, never been attempted in skating, and not even among actual celebrities (I mean hiding a pregnancy in plain sight while continuing to perform and then 3 years later the child is still erased from existence). It's hard to buy, if you don't have a source.
ReplyDelete9:17 - but even that "just saying they have a girlfriend or a few photos is enough" misses the point. It doesn't have to be enough. It doesn't have to convince anybody. It just has to be there. If the agenda is privacy, all a public couple needs to do is SAY they're not a couple. What are they protecting themselves from? Fans THOUGHTS? No. They are keeping their private lives and their child from the public sphere. To do that,they could do what some fans suggest they do - say "no comment" - or "we don't discuss our private life" but convention seems to require more than that. It requires to proactively say "We're platonic" and in some cases a step further and produce a fake boyfriend and girlfriend.
ReplyDeleteMy speculation is that if a couple said "We're private" or "We don't care to talk about it" that appears to leave the door open a crack for people in the know to say "Well, I'LL talk about it! Here's the deal!"
But if they put up a denial, that seems to deter those people. Oh, it's not that they don't care to discuss it - they don't want it in public. Alright.
When fans look at this, some fans seem to think the scope of it all makes sense. Oh Scott and Tessa need to somehow engage psychologically with fans. No, they don't. Scott and Tessa need to worry about what fans think and speculate. No, they don't.
None of that impacts them at all. They need to keep their private life out of the public record and their child off the public record too. A denial and, for good measure, a fake bf or gf as a place holder accomplishes that. The media has no choice but to take them at face value. The skating media that intersects with sports media aren't in the tabloid business - they're not going to expose the truth. The rationale is the primary topic is the skating - that's the sport. And the relationship and personality aspect is the color. So there's no rationale to pursue relationship issues past Scott and Tessa's official position.
Scott and Tessa have gone crazy with this for reasons that have nothing to do with protecting themselves from fans.
"Oh Scott and Tessa need to somehow engage psychologically with fans. No, they don't. Scott and Tessa need to worry about what fans think and speculate. No, they don't. "
ReplyDeleteBut if they are continually baiting and hoaxing and engaging just to pull back and say gotcha, that's what they are doing.
"Scott and Tessa have gone crazy with this for reasons that have nothing to do with protecting themselves from fans."
Like you said, there is nothing to protect. The problem is they seem to think there is. They or some adviser have made the fans' thoughts this problem when it isn't a problem. And the more they try to solve the problem, the more fan speculation they invite, and then they have an excuse to do even more shamming. It's a psychological clusterfuck. I just still don't buy that they necessarily enjoy it. It's perverse, for sure.
Could it be that Tessa ended the Cassandra era because she and Scott got along a little too well ?
ReplyDeleteHe obviously liked her better than he did Jessica and at one point it must have dawned to Tessa that this might come back biting her in the ass.
Many people who never meant to cheat on their spouses ended up doing it simply because they had the opportunity.
And having your doppelganger making out with your husband, even if it's staged, seems a little but too risky on the long run.
Maybe, 10:54, but it's dangerous to speculate based on grains of truth that might or might not be present in the their show, because the show was mainly lies. However, by presenting it this way (having a girlfriend that he makes out with on TV even though many fans know he's married), they open themselves up to this sort of speculation. Who knows? It would serve Tessa right if this happened, and it would serve Scott right to lose his wife and custody of his child for that. I want to believe it's all lies, and T&S are in love as ever, but I also don't want to be a pollyana who believes all the good parts of the sham (being married parents) and refuses to see any potential dark side.
Delete"He obviously liked her better than he did Jessica " LMAO WTF? have you see his face during the kissing scenes?
DeleteHave you seen him with Jessica ? His act around Cassandra, as uncomfortable as it may look, is a lot closer and less awkward than it was around Jessica. That might be just a little change but it is there.
DeleteChoosing Jessica was smart. She lived far away, didn't speak his language and had her own social life.
Cassandra on the other hand already was part of his social network, they can actually have a conversation and even get a long with each other. It isn't too far fetched to assume something could develop between them. Stranger things have happened.
I agree that they opened themselves up to speculation, and it didn't help that Cassandra's public profile was of someone hoping to become a star of some sort and looking for opportunity. Subsequently she's back-and-filled - she's posing with whoever that guy is on her facebook, and she's "liked" her unglamorous place of appointment (the dental service, which actually seems like a fairly cool place for a dental center), and both of those things create a more dimensional portrait than what was projected - a girl who stayed too long at the fair in London, who believed her looks would lead to her being somehow discovered and transported to some type of star life, and meantime Scott was the best opportunity in her path.
DeleteThat said, it would be really difficult for Scott not to appear to like just about anybody "more than Jessica". Scott projected outright hostility and contempt towards Jessica at times, during the height of shamming with her.
Arguing against this speculation, at least in terms of what we see, is that people who get along together easily don't need a pumpkin stuck between them so they have something to look at while conducting an extremely basic conversation consisting of "Let's talk about me. I'll talk and you nod and say yeah." They couldn't manage that too well without a pumpkin intermediary. OTOH he and Patrick didn't need a pumpkin, and got physical a whole lot more naturally than he and Cassandra.
DeleteMy speculation is that Scott's vanity and ego (and possibly Tessa's as well) enjoyed the exhibitionism with Cassandra more than interacting with the actual Cassandra, if that makes sense. He liked projecting this image of himself as this stud with at least two women living for his attention. Cassandra is waiting for him at home or on the road, and Tessa is spending her down time wondering what he's thinking and wishing he'd notice her, and he also has to choose his skating costumes to the fans in the stands don't lose their minds and hurl themselves over the boards to get at his pants. And then there's the lucky winners of the condom lottery in Sochi. So my spec is he enjoyed it, but in terms of showing off to the public what a cool and in control stud he was.
And for Tessa it could be vanity as well - as in - this is how much I've got him. I can practically insist it play out this way, down to pseudo making out, and I have nothing to worry about.
P.S. I know that Bryce was also part of the reason Jessica was chosen - it was a package deal. I also suspect, based on a bumper that aired in 2007 or so, that the original configuration contemplated might have been Bryce/Tessa but it was quickly realized Jessica could never keep a poker face if that went down. The bumper showed a red-headed Tessa happily engaged in animated conversation with Bryce, standing close together, while a stoney faced Jessica stood a couple of feet in front of them. A bumper is the piece of video that takes you into and out of commercial or something that transitions the viewer between segments.
DeleteThe assumption was that Cassandra was a free agent with no "Bryce" in the picture, but that might not have been true.
^^ up above, it should say "unglamorous place of employment" not "unglamorous place of appointment."
DeleteWhere you and I see this differently, 10:40, is I don't believe Scott and Tessa believe fans are the problem. Scott and Tessa know fans are not the problem.
ReplyDeleteMoirville is the big 800 lbs. gorilla here. Without them, I don't believe the sham would exist in its present form.
No, they haven't psyched themselves into believing all of this is necessary. It serves other purposes. The "it's necessary" part of it is what they're pretending, but they ARE pretending. It's spin they're pushing on us. They know better. We're a scapegoat only, and they know that as well. They constantly lie about fans, not just lie about themselves.
"Not all the fans are dumb. Some just don't pay close attention to off-ice. Others are just trying to give the benefit of the doubt."
If they're not paying close attention then maybe they shouldn't simultaneously be convinced it's not possible.
I also think anyone who chose to believe Tessa looked the way she did because she overweight is engaging in far more fantastical thinking than anyone who suspected she might be pregnant.
She didn't engage in high risk elements when pregnant. Go back and look at her skating during her pregnancy. This is where fans not understanding mechanics works against them. What they did was very safe - for THEM. Even look at the short dance lift at the 4CCs, how she holds her body against Scott, what part of her body she actually stretches (she opens her shoulders and her chest but keeps her pelvis against him).
It's fine if people don't pay attention but then don't turn around and scream that none of what actually happened is possible - but fans do it all the time.
And there comes a time when benefit of the doubt becomes willful stupidity. For example - Tessa and Scott didn't see or speak to each other for two months or they did. They didn't just imply this - they came out and went out of their way to say they meant it LITERALLY.
But they did. It can't be both things. Fans just pressed the eject button on that one.
The truth isn't that fantastical. It's ridiculous, but that's different. What's more fantastical is when fans crawl into Scott and Tessa's heads and say, oh, when Scott and Tessa said 'never' doesn't actually mean "never". When they said Kate moved to Michigan, they didn't really mean that Kate moved to Michigan. Or, when two people kiss each other on the ice, including stroking each other's faces it's not a kiss - they stumbled.
That's fantastical. A lot more fantastical than considering the scope of their lie, however ridiculous that lie has become.
I think some of this occurs because some fans view the skaters as live action fan fiction creatures, not people who occupy a real world. There were a bunch of Dube Davison fans who saw the two of THEM kissing on ice in the Canadians exhibition in 2010 who said "well, maybe they took a space of time just for this competition to be a couple."
What the unholy fuck? For real? These are people who live in the real world who came up with that? Well no, that's not the problem. They live in the real world, they just forget to remember that so do Scott, Jessica, Tessa and Bryce, and in the real world a boyfriend and girlfriend don't say "Hey, for this weekend I'm taking a space of time and being a couple with my ex. Catch you on the other side!"
And btw, this live action fan fiction stuff is enabled by people in the sport or who pretend to write about the sport and find the sport part of it all tedious when they really want to get into the drama. Look at some of Dave Leese's ideas. All of his ideas are cribbed from soap opera. The women are divas and at each other's throats, the men are hey dude and more laid back. The diva part plays itself back in Real Housewives dynamics, of course.
ReplyDeleteThis is all stupid, and it's willful.
"Call me crazy but I don't necessarily believe VM get off on hoaxing the public."
ReplyDeleteyou are not crazy. they obviously don't. who the hell enjoys repressing their feelings anyway?
you all reallly need to stop with the baseless narrative that v/m hate their fans. if you met them you'll know they don't. you are aware that you are grasping at straws when you say this.
btw OC when you go on anon try to be a little less transparent. i've been here long enough to know which anon is which. and TALKING like THIS wont make anything more true
11:16 - cut the shit. You don't know "which anon is which" - however, I do - at least if I choose to, I know who multiple posts and their ISP and where they're from.
ReplyDeleteSecond, you are an idiot. Saying that VM are nice to fan faces is like saying the cashier must like me because she smiled and told me to have a nice day.
That's ego - your ego, fan ego, into play. An ego that thinks it's an equal relationship and encounter, instead of a transaction. That in person means "the real them."
V/M do NOT hate their fans and that is a FACT :)
ReplyDelete"Although it's not an interest of mine, if I were going to go on television, a reality show, with a fake narrative of my life, I might check this stuff out before letting my actual home be used for a pretend exterior shot of someone else's home. It might help for me to know BEFORE that if I did that, a curious person could probably find out the property address and find out that I owned it, not the person the show pretended lived there.
ReplyDeleteIf you go this big - KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. "
How do you know that he didn't know what he was doing.
Almost every single person who buys real estate in the United States knows that all that info is public, and can be found in less than 30 seconds by going to the county/city/township tax assessor website. If the database isn't easily accessible, then typically you call and pay a nominal fee, and the info is yours. If you don't want it to be public, then you wouldn't buy the property in your name (rather, in the name of a trust, etc.).
My guess is that Scott and Tessa knew this full well, and didn't give a fuck (and really, people who think otherwise -- you don't think they had to sign off on allowing the production team to shoot the exterior and interior of their house?? Of course they knew it was going up on tv).
"Like you said, there is nothing to protect. The problem is they seem to think there is. "
Actually, the problem is that fans think they are doing this because they think they have something to protect.
No. The reason they do this sham is because THE SHAM IS PART OF THEIR BRAND. They *want* to invite fan speculation. They want to have fans thinking they might be a couple. They think they have the most to sell using that angle, as compared to straight up skating.
Some fans ask, "why don't they focus on selling us on their pure skating?" Answer: because that's the true "private" part of V/M. That's the sacred thing they really don't want to share. Inviting people in to enjoy their performance is one thing, but to show what they go through to create these intimate moments between them on ice -- no way would they ever want to share that stuff. That's their private thing, the thing they love so dearly. Staging mock dinner dates -- no big deal, because that isn't where the real love is anyway.
The sham might benefit VM in the way that it keeps Moirville away from them. I'm sure Scott loves his family but even he must be sick of them at times. If I was Tessa I'd do anything to keep this clan out of my personal business. Letting them have fun with the sham probably seemed like a small price to pay before it got out of control.
ReplyDeleteAnd I can't shake the notion that Moirville doesn't like Tessa and only tolerate her because they have to. I don't know why, it's just a feeling.
11:30 a.m. I think the sham has everything to do with appeasing Moirville, pandering to Moirville, sidetracking and diverting Moirville, and avoiding the real issues with Moirville.
ReplyDeleteI think they like Tessa but she likes her space and that seems to be alien to Moirville.
I've been getting the feeling lately that it's the other way around. It's not Ilderton and Scott's family that doesn't care for Tessa - it's the Virtues, specifically Kate, who really wishes that her baby didn't end up in love with that Scott Moir and his low class family. I don't think that Kate and Alma are as buddy-buddy as they want people to believe.
ReplyDelete11:25 - you're right, we don't know they didn't know what they were doing, which makes fan hysteria about stalking all the more misplaced.
ReplyDeleteI won't dispute that they don't give a fuck - and why is that? Because fans aren't a problem. Fans are a tool, a scapegoat, a pretext - whatever they want fans to be. There are people here convinced the sham is straight up - a privacy shield. And somehow VM have let themselves be convinced that they're at risk from intrusive fans, and have gone over the top erecting a barrier. I don't believe that for a second - everything they've done supports what you say - they don't give a fuck. Fans are a piece of cake. Fans aren't a problem.
I do, though, think you mischaracterize what fans say. Fans haven't said they'd like to see the focus on pure skating, but on skating. We don't need to see Virtue and Moir's process. There is no reason we can't see the outcome and have it deconstructed, as that's the stuff they take to the public and compete on the ice. During the post-Sochi press conference, Scott described how doing something "artistically" is more demanding technically and athletically. He used Patrick Chan's skating - in particular, the turns he used to enter a jump - as an example. There were countless examples in Seasons of turns into an element or out of an element or as linking moves that demonstrated how much more demanding athletically and technically their program was than something like Schez. Scott and Tessa could have used a third party to talk to the camera about their SKATING, highlighting aspects of that program where their superior skating was on display, breaking it down, and also demonstrating to the public that skating wasn't arcane, and technique is accessible to the average viewer if someone takes the time.
Someone way upthread claims the reality show was meant to get people interested in skating. That's strange, because even Scott and Tessa didn't act very interested in skating in the reality show. Tessa put the focus on all the balance she wanted to achieve outside of skating, Scott was crotch-obsessed, and when they did get around to dealing with their skating, it was to disparage how they were skating.
and btw part of the show's premise was to get people into skating. think of it as a 101 course. and with all the crap happening lately with corruption and collusion in the sport, figure skating as a sport itself doesn't even focus on the skating either. its a giant dramafest. v/m technically did nothing wrong in the way they represented their sport.
ReplyDelete11:49 - logic isn't a writing style. I know it can be confusing for those who don't use it in their writing - it must all look alike.
ReplyDeleteBut stop talking about yourself and stop acting out and start making your points instead of just announcing your point. For example, how do you think the reality show tried to get people into skating, other the fact that it featured people who happened to be skaters?
Or is that it. The point has been made already.
Oh, and please tell me where "skating 101" existed in the reality show. This is the sort of thing that needs to happen in the comments section instead of just declaring something 27 times. Make the point. Point out the support for your opinion.
ReplyDelete11:57
ReplyDeleteI can't tell if you're saying the show did help bring a focus to skating or it didn't. But for those saying the show did a good job in creating new skating fans, I say no it didn't. Like it's been said in other comments here, the show focused on false relationship premises and from there of course, everything was fiction.
As far as skating, we got the scene where they're supposedly trying to be comfortable touching each other. What the hell. Not only is that false on its face it did nothing to present the SD in any technical sense. What the hell did that have to do with mastering the SD? Nothing. It was just an excuse for the plot-lines of Tessa and Scott not liking each other very much and oh, this connection thing is SO hard, outside help is needed. Stat. (rolleyes)
And the FD. Again, all about struggling with connection. The public wasn't shown anything about how they chose the music, how they constructed the choreography, how the choreography was telling "their story" (which is how they explained Seasons). Nothing technical at all. But oh, they hope they don't lose to Weaver Poje, who mysteriously don't struggle with their connection. Oh, if VM could just know Kaitlyn and Andrew's secrets. WTH.
They never showed how Tessa chose the dresses she wore in the SD and FD. The costume segment was an excuse to show Scott without a shirt and to set up yet another scenario of Scott and Tessa running to get away from each other in order to "really" relax, since that's impossible for them if they're around each other off ice. None of it had to do with skating. We did not see the process of choosing and creating costumes.
No, this show did not give a genuine, real, behind-the-scenes of the SKATING, and it did nothing to bring in new skating fans nor to explain what icedance is all about. It did bring in new shipper fans for VM but not new fans for the sport of icedance.
8:51 - I actually agree with you that Scott was attempting to use reverse psychology when he said he would trade places with his brother because then he'd have a beautiful daughter. I know that.
ReplyDeleteWhat he also ended up doing was leaving this remark on the web for eternity - a public comment from Little Moir's daddy that he'd trade places with his brother because his brother has a beautiful daughter.
What the fuck is Little Moir? Chopped liver? An ugly daughter?
Of course he didn't mean it but for God's sake the man ought to have THOUGHT. Yes, I agree that many times what looks like something they overlooked is really something they know about and don't give a shit about but the best way to look at THIS remark, that he wanted to have a beautiful daughter - is that he didn't consider how horrible it would be to have that on the internet. It doesn't matter if it's a lie. It still stings. We all know that.
11:57 - the problem with your participation here is you are not "countering" anybody's arguments. You are making assertions. An assertion is not a point. It's not a counter-argument. If you intend to counter an argument, COUNTER it. Explain how Tessa and Scott's treatment of fans to their face proves that they love their fans. Unless you believe that's enough - that people who treat fans well to their face love their fans, full stop, that no public figure ever is nice to the faces of fans and rolls their eyes, avoids them or otherwise runs them down in private.
ReplyDeleteDon't say you're countering people's argument. COUNTER it. Saying it and doing it are different things and you've yet to show you understand that.
If the reality show is Skating 101, say how it's skating 101. Is your idea that simply having a show feature skaters is skating 101?
Do it, don't say it. At the moment, you're just saying it, and that''s just spam, because you're not really participating. You're running down what other people say, claiming you know better, but refusing to make your case.
OC, why the hell did V/M stay another quad when they could've stayed with their family? Why do v/m keep on doing show all around the world? they are OGM. they don't need the money. why the hell do V/M take the time out of their busy schedule to chat with their fans especially after the olympics/moscow show where it was obvious that they were physically exhausted? and this isn't just one group of fans. even the north american fans. even the individual fans.
ReplyDeleteits obvious that they did all this for the fans not for money or medals (cause we all know what happened this quad)
its obvious that you have never met V/M because if you did you would never be making such baseless claims that they hate their fans. claims that rely on shitty analogies and stretching their lies. how the hell is that proof?
All caps and logic aren't mutually exclusive.
ReplyDeleteAnd again, you are saying things are "obvious" without explaining why and that means you're spamming. Start participating or stop commenting. The next thing you post, you should be participating or it goes.
Also, the blog hasn't said that they hate the fans. The blog has said they exploit, manipulate, and lie to their fans. They do. They have a long track record of being meanspirited to fans on social media.
ReplyDeletehating your fans and lying to your fans aren't mutually exclusive btw. never in my original claims have i said that V/M are telling the whole truth.
ReplyDeleteand perhaps, you haven't "technically" said they hate their fans but others have in this comment section.
2:02, the focus of the blog is behavior. Their behavior is - they lie to, exploit, manipulate their fans, and the manner in which they've done it has been meanspirited and demeaning. That's behavior.
ReplyDelete"why the hell do V/M take the time out of their busy schedule to chat with their fans especially after the olympics/moscow show where it was obvious that they were physically exhausted? and this isn't just one group of fans. even the north american fans. even the individual fans.
ReplyDeleteits obvious that they did all this for the fans not for money or medals (cause we all know what happened this quad)"
Why do you think it's impossible for V/M to be kind to their fans' faces but not also use them as conduits for their lies? That is exactly what V/M do. They're very nice to fans in person. The basis of your argument is "they're doing all of this out of the kindness of their hearts!", as though you know this to be true. Except your knowing it to be true is based on nothing but their public interactions with fans in the first place. You contradict yourself in your own posts by claiming everyone but you is making unfair assumptions about V/M, yet the basis of your entire argument is an assumption as well.
It is not *obvious* they did everything for the fans this quad. They've always been very honest about the fact that they did everything they did this quad for themselves. They wanted to make more of a mark in the sport and challenge themselves. That's why they stayed in.
In an effort to avoid countering any arguments made by OC and other posters here (because you seem unable to do that), you've decided to make a lot of base declarations that V/M adore their fans and would never purposely use or mock them. When that hasn't worked, you've turned to picking at the way people write (ALL CAPS!) or accusing them of having a complex as a means of trying to hijack the discussion.
You know that part in VM's show where they need to call in a ballroom expert to teach them how to relate to each other because they don't know how, despite a long partnership?
ReplyDeleteTHIS is what that looks like: http://static.east.abc.go.com/service/image/index/id/80c7d72e-baf2-41c8-b8a4-481abbdb8f36/dim/822x462.jpg
Is that Meryl in the pink dress? Wow, her proportions look weird..like a Barbie doll (and that's not a good thing).
DeleteMeryl's proportions have always been off. Her head looks big for her body.
DeleteYikes. Look how naturally they go into frame as well. All that dance training.
DeleteI can't imagine that this will go down well with the audiene. She looks like a drag queen and rather unhealthy. The annoying helium voice, lack of self-reflection spontaneity will do the rest.
DeleteCharlie might have better chances. He looks a bit chubby and nerdy, if he can show a sense of humor and some work ethic he might become quite popular.
Wonderful comment from the FSU DW thread: "Meryl will be the first DWTS contestant that makes the female ballroom pros look chunky!"
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's a funny thing, anorexia tends to make normal sized people look chunky.
DeleteBeing underweight also tends to make someone's head seem too large for their body. If you go back and look at Meryl in juniors, she, and her head, are proportionate.
DeleteFormer Anorexic here......yes, OC, I have seen pictures of Meryl as a junior, and you're right....she was always small but everything was proportionate. What is she now is......rather disturbing for me to look at. I'm trying to be respectful here, but I don't see the healthy, slender body of an athlete, I see.....sinews and bones. And on a completely frivolous note---one would think that her partner would have the good sense to help her dress in outfits that will be as flattering as possible to her body shape. Someone there obviously needs to understand more about
Delete"camouflaging" ... Seeing that D/W's skating has always been about smoke and mirrors, it will be interesting, indeed, to see them presented without their careful and studied packaging, in all areas of their persona and performance.
Evgeny Platov is complaining that "...Tessa's too heavy. This immediately creates a certain dissonance."
DeleteThis guy is so drunk on the D/W Kool-Aid, it's beyond the point of ridiclious.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sport-express.ru%2Folympic14%2Ffigureskating%2Freviews%2F41171%2F
I want to add something about Scott's "beautiful daughter" remark. In the past, in interviews, one can see Scott attempt to pull off verbal sleight-of-hand, only to belatedly realize it doesn't actually scan.
ReplyDeleteI believe, or would like to believe, that Scott thought he was, through the back door, paying his daughter a wonderful compliment. That the joy of having a beautiful daughter was something he'd trade his life to have. And the secret was, he HAS a beautiful daughter, and so, having this beautiful daughter, his answer was sort of this contorted way of saying it's worth everything, it would be a reason to trade places with anybody, this is what his daughter has made him feel.
Of course he doesn't officially acknowledge he has a beautiful daughter, and yet many fans do know he has one. So when he attempts to pull off clever with this double blind reverse back flip of an answer, it comes off that his brothers have beautiful daughters and he has a dud. And of course, many fans look at that answer and say - no way he has a kid, no decent father would ever say anything like that. And the idea that Scott would say something like that ON PURPOSE just to convince people he ISN'T a parent, makes him come off like fucking hell. But that's what he did. However, I do believe that more was going on than just a blood-curdling upping of the ante at his daughter's expense. I suspect he thought he was being clever, and paying his girl a secret compliment.
That said, I do believe that, if in the process of shamming, you find yourself insulting and degrading either your wife or child, it's time to pull back and get the bird's eye view. You've taken a wrong turn. It should NEVER come to that.
ReplyDeleteAgree that it's a backdoor compliment. I call it an Easter egg. Some others I have seen are:
ReplyDelete-Summer 2011 was "their best training ever" and the happiest they had been on the ice - they were enjoying life with their little girl.
-Talking about how their programs this year were like their baby, with every note of music lovingly selected.
-In the new Myra Klarman photoshoot, Tessa is wearing the black dress she wore when she was pregnant at some award show. There's also bridal-esque pics, and the theme of the shoot is looking forward and looking back... on their skating career (yeah, right).
-And of course since V&M's wedding pics aren't public, we got a whole photoshoot worth of bridal pics in Today's Bride.
Is there something VM did or how they behaved that you liked? (seriously, not sarcastically)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/24928129/olympic-ice-dancing-champions-honored-in-canton
ReplyDeleteThere was a discussion over on FSU, with one side of the argument saying it was a hometown celebration for D/W, like V/M's infamous buggy ride in Ilderton. But Canton isn't D/W's hometown. It isn't even in the same county. Neither is the U of M. Canton is the city that *both* teams have worked, and presumably lived, in for almost a decade. I really hope that V/M declined, or else, wow, what a snub. They're the ones who made Arctic Edge what it is in the first place.
I don't know but I'm going to guess VM took a pass. They've been gracious, but the more I look at the gold medal awarded free dance put down by DW, the more insupportable it becomes. I think they actually added more running and two footing as the season went on, or troubled less to smoothly integrate it. Not to mention there were continued hesitations in and out of elements where you could see them "set" for the transition.
DeleteAnon at 12:25 pm - well it doesn't surprise me that DW and their parents would want a solo celebration. Did the Shibs even attend? I know that the Shibs had the charity skate over at the DSC...but the more you see of DW post-Olympics - the message is clear - it's the DW show...hell at this point I am not even sure that the Shibs would return to Canton...in a way I would prefer for VM to go back on their own terms - say goodbye to the people they want to say goodbye to and move on...but you are right - talk about tactless from DW team and Artic edge...
ReplyDeleteI also find it interesting that the Shibs are doing Stars on Ice Japan along with VM...I wonder if they got snubbed for the US tour...in favor of Charlie's good friend Evan Bates...
Did anyone from Arctic Edge participate ?
ReplyDeleteThe entire club seems very suspicious these days. They have basically erased every memory of Igor and what he has done for them and now VM are getting cut out too.
Maybe they didn't like VM's remarks about Marina post Sochi. The top teams outside of the USA will think twice about hiring her after the way she treated VM. She has proven that she puts her own interests first. Maybe I/K are still willing to work with her but imo that would be a huge mistake because they need a technical coach and inspired choreography to reach their full potential. Marina can't help them.
The Shibs need to run for the hills as well. They are capable of so much more but didn't get the treatment they deserve.
The Shibs are lucky to join SOI Japan. Chan, VM, Fernandez and the Japanese stars are a lot more impressive than the rather mediocre ensemble in the US. Not to mention that the arenas will be sold out.
If I were the Shibs, I'd be more pissed of at the USFSA for basically dumping them for the two shitty teams ahead of them.
DeleteAnd now that the USFSA has their ice dance OGM-bedpost notch, they're not going care about their ice dancers in the next quad. It's gonna be all about Gracie Gold. So the Shibs, who would have been worthy OGM winners in 2018, are going to be completely ignored.
10:34 a.m. - yes, and you'll have to read the blog if you want to know. However, the focus of the blog is how they treat the fans vis a vis the sham - that's the blog's baseline, as it were, even though the blog's lens has widened to include issues that connect to the sham, such as Skate Canada, Moirville, and Davis White's unearned trajectory to the top. It all goes to a sport that enables corruption, discourages an informed public, and keeps the truth on and off the ice in shadow.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I do like about Tessa, for example, is how she speaks of and to Scott. A lot of those who know him bust his chops and one up. Tessa treats him like a grown-man. In a recent post I mentioned how, when Scott said "I was trying to be funny." Tessa said "Trying? Succeeding!" it was one of the few moments of genuine charm and feeling in the reality show, and it is extremely typical of her. The best part of it is she is in no way patronizing or boosting him up, this is her authentic reaction to him. She's not a good enough actress for it to be anything but.
oc
I'm not sure the Shibs could win an OGM, even with a better federation behind them.
ReplyDeleteWhile they do have the technical goods they are lacking in the artistry department, imo. I have never really seen them connect to the music, choreography and rhythm of their programs. They remain cold and somewhat disconnected in my eyes. I never believe them and I think they are lacking the charisma and the fire to really sell their programs.
They have a disadvantage because they are siblings but that never stopped the Duchesnays either.
This year they had the chance to really go out there and show the crowd who should be number one in the US but their MJ program fell flat.
Ice dance is still supposed to be a mix of technique and artistry and unless they can master both ( or get the DW treatment ) I don't see them winning on the international stage. Especially not with Russia trying to get its dominance back.
I think the Shibs have the best sense of rhythm next to VM, and are the best dancers next to VM, and the opposite of cold. Well, best dancers along with C&L but C&L can be a little shallow at blade level.
DeleteP.S. P/I as well are strong dancers.
DeleteI’ve read just about every post on this blog, but not every comment, so maybe this has been hashed out before, but have people seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRZGc8Jyxjw At 3.08? I mean, maybe I shouldn’t be surprised but WTF??
ReplyDeleteIn another rendition of SOI, Katia Gordeeva and Ilia Kulik, who were/are married (although their actual status is murky or was murky for a bit), acted out that segment with a whole lot less detail and obvious affection than Scott and Tessa. Scott and Tessa are working it. While an actual public (or erstwhile) acknowledged married duo just got basic with it.
Delete"Oh look at us acting out we just found out we're pregnant...." I can't even get my head round their madness.
Delete