Great exchange! Figure skating challenge up next! #Trillium2014 #crossfit #guesswho
Did u know Kaitlyn Lawes is the 3d most followed lady curler on twitter! #16.2k
Hey Kaitlyn Lawes lost all other punctuation on her keyboard/phone! #somanyexclamationpoints
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I don't know which is worse - this or Jessica's winks and hearts.
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All of the questions in this post are rhetorical. I haven't done enough research to have the answers.
Part of this blog and blog comments section has been looking at social media marketing, including its standards of integrity. I'm curious about how come what Tessa and Scott do, which is to combine deceiving the public on twitter with promoting their sponsors on twitter, is okay. Lawes does the same thing. Mostly I wonder if we must then assume that Lindt and pb chocolate milk can be considered participants in the manipulation and hoaxing of the public about Scott and Tessa's relationship.
Most people inside Scott and Tessa's network know they're married and have a daughter; this network can be described as enormous. Scott and Tessa must be getting feedback that their tactics are fine. It seems to me they've been innovators in using social media to not just actively promote a hoax, but in actively gaslighting the supporters of their skating, and those who follow figure skating. They're not reactive. There's no pressure from the media. Scott and Tessa instigate.
That last, the "it's not us - it's you" (actually it's "it's not us - it's them (fans)) is the "unique" component of all this - to actively and repeatedly report to the people you're lying to that you're being nothing but truthful, and, taking it a step further, to assert that the people you're lying to are confusing fantasy/performance with reality. You present yourselves as constantly needing to get out there and set people straight. (Which is another lie - they lie about their supporters. Apart from the blog, Scott and Tessa's false version of their status isn't questioned online.).
Until the reality show, one might argue that the people who partner with Scott and Tessa - other athletes, sponsors, representatives - aren't aware of Scott and Tessa's tactics. Figure skating doesn't get much coverage, nor do the personalities in the sport get coverage unless they're actively seeking it out. People in entertainment, talent management, other sports, event production, and sponsorship might be under the impression Scott and Tessa function like a lot of couples who maintain a platonic facade for privacy reasons, although even before the reality show, Scott and Tessa went into way more detail about how platonic they are than other couples have ever done. They repeatedly did entire interviews in print and video where that was all that was discussed. With Scott and Tessa, it's a little difficult for anyone to pretend to believe they're just working from a defensive position, but if you're not keeping track, that assumption can be made. But once they did the reality show, nobody could pretend that anymore.
This type of situation hasn't been addressed by the FTC (or, in Canada, the Canadian Competition Bureau, the FTC equivalent), or made it into any social media best practices guidelines. I imagine nobody at the FTC/Canadian Competition Bureau is even aware this sort of thing exists - Scott and Tessa are unique, after all. With the internet, rules and guidelines evolve in response to issues as they come up.
FTC/Canadian Competition Bureau
The linked article discusses the FTC's ability to govern Canadian advertising and sales practices (I imagine what Scott and Tessa do isn't sales/advertising, but marketing and promotion).
Here's the combination of factors that I question, wondering mostly if this is okay, and will become common practice:
1. Scott and Tessa publicly insist they are single and dating other people.
2. Scott and Tessa are married to each other, and have a daughter.
3. Their extensively promoted reality show, "Tessa and Scott," which aired on the commercially broadcast W network geared towards "women's programming", told us Tessa and Scott are each unmarried, are platonic, are not a couple, and told us Cassandra Hilborn was Scott Moir's girlfriend.The actual facts are Tessa was his wife, he was a married man, they have a daughter, live together as a family, and he was not dating Cassandra Hilborn.
4. W is an "entertainment" network, not a news channel; but their marketing of "Tessa and Scott" stressed that we'd be seeing Tessa and Scott's actual life, the real them.This promotional angle was specifically built around Scott and Tessa's honesty, transparency, sincerity, and genuine character. Scott even took to insisting it was a documentary. (I don't know if describing your personalities as genuine, sincere, etc., rather than using the words "honest" or "the truth" to describe the content of the show you're promoting, constitutes a technical out, but marketing guidelines are ALL about those semantics.)
5. Scott and Tessa repeatedly portray the public as self-deceived in wishing or wrongly suspecting that Scott and Tessa would ever be or are together as a couple.
6. Any review of fan discussion outside this one blog will demonstrate, going back years, that fans do not and did not challenge Scott and Tessa's version of their relationship, and Scott and Tessa were not and are not responding to persistent or vocal skepticism from fans.
7.Scott and Tessa are proactive. They frequently introduce the subject of their relationship, using every social media, legit media and reality television manipulation and flat out lie under the sun.
8. Scott and Tessa use the same platforms they use to lie to the public to promote their sponsors. Do the sponsors know?
Does this mean a public figure can basically tell any lie they want about their personal circumstances on social media, market it, and have it be validated by legitimate media, sponsors, other public figures?
You raise a lot of great points here, and this is kind of off-topic but not exactly since you did mention DW's skating, but I was so confused by this interview with Maxim Kovtun on working with Charlie White. It seems very much like an up is down, down is up situation.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/kovtun-i-have-the-best-coach-ever.92972/
About Charlie White's advice
The Olympic champion Charlie White helped me in Japan. He worked with me during the show practices. We became good friends. He told me am not a bad skater for a single. I explained I was working with Max Zavozin recently.
Charlie noted the upper body and explained when you control the steps and edges completely the upper body works on it's own. `You can do whatever you want with your upper body and the legs will do a different thing. It looks cool' - was his advice. I tried and he's right. But I sometimes get a bit stiff and only let go towards the end of the programme. I have to get used to skate freely. Just like I got used to the gliding.
I hope something is lost in translation, but I think he's explaining that if you have really strong, superior basic skating, your upper body can be free and expressive (while maintaining proper alignment, which actually promotes free and expressive movement). Charlie was obviously sharing what he'd learned from watching Scott.
DeleteV/M aren't the first public figures to use social media to market a fake relationship, and Kaitlyn and Scott have been careful never to flat out say they're dating. Of course they drop an avalanche of hints (is that Scott filming her ice bucket challenge?) but technically they could argue they're just really good friends and the fans misinterpreted their pictures and tweets.
ReplyDeleteThe reality show is another matter entirely and I still can't believe they went through with it. If there were no reality show they could come clean very easily at any time but with an entire show devoted to their platonicness - how do you even begin to explain that? It's in the public domain, numerous articles mentioned it, I have a hard time believing no journalist would bring it up. Why do they still have sponsors? Either VM lied to them and they can't do basic research or they believe that a reveal several years away won't hurt their bottom line, which is all they care about really. There's also the chance VM are planning on never admitting they're a couple, doesn't seem fair to their kids but, you know, priorities.
I agree with you... everything else could be explained away... even the Jessica pictures that came out after the marriage/pregnancy would be put into some fuzzy timeline in which she could be considered an "ex-girlfriend." Lawes, Fedor, and Semple hardly have to be explained at all.
DeleteBut the reality show... ? I don't get it at all. I had fully expected that we would just see Cassandra in the background from time to time, enough to convince the fans she was a gf, but not putting her on record. Maybe all of the facebook and twitter shit gets jumbled up eventually, but the reality show is something their daughter can clearly see her parents in, saying her mom is a single woman and dad has another girlfriend and is open about it. And it's not going to be hard to go on the internet and look up the date of that show. I still can't believe they did that.
And that show is the thing that makes me wonder if Scott would actually go through with a sham engagement or wedding with another woman.
I well believe that not just the sponsors, but representatives and a lot of the other people they work with DON"T do basic research. They know there's a reality show but never watched it (Cassandra was never in the promos or mentioned in Scott and Tessa's interviews promoting the show). Plenty of couples pretend to have a "brother sister relationship" while their career is in high gear and then come clean after retirement. I believe "don't research" and basically just take Scott and Tessa's account of themselves at face value has a lot to do with it.
DeleteA lot of people were wondering if Scott was going to fake an engagement with Cassandra Hilborn. Little did we know what once Sochi was done and Scott was "free" to be in London full time, he dumped the London sham gf in the blink of an eye and hooked up with someone several provinces over, with a packed schedule.
The switch to KL happened so fast, and was so established and organized right away. It makes me wonder exactly how did this go down. During Sochi Scott was very busy with Tessa, family, being the rah-rah team-member. No one in their right mind believes they hooked up in Sochi or "fell in love" in Sochi. Yet just one day after Sochi, in Russia, Scott was dropping the word "curlers" in his talk. Very contrived. Looking back it's obvious this agreement was in place before they even left Sochi.
DeleteDid someone working for VM hit on the idea of KL? Busy gold-medalist, right age, willing to play the part (to hide her own relationship? You've talked in other comments about her possible motives). It has the smell of an outside agent "finding" KL and setting up the times for Scott to meet/talk, meet his family and hometown, etc. An arranged affair. Not at all the way it looked with Jessica and Cassandra, where there was the impression Scott was very involved in the choosing. Not this time.
And who is the "someone" who is doing the arranging? Whoever it is, this is keeping them very occupied, like a regular part of a "job" for the benefit of VM (and KL).
I have no problem believing no journalist would bring up what was actually IN the reality show because I believe no journalist likely to interview them actually watched the reality show. Look at Amanda Sage, who used what Tessa and Scott told her, and episode summaries. You'd have to watch it to see what they did with Cassandra, and nobody who matters watched it. Those in any sort of public position who did watch it, which to date is maybe Scott and Tessa themselves (well, they claim not to have watched it, which is convenient, but they did film it), and P.J. Kwong, and P.J. Kwong misrepresents what's in it as thoroughly as the judging protocols misrepresent what Davis White did on the ice. It's not a coincidence. This is how figure skating rolls.
Delete6:32 - I agree, Lawes was set up either just prior to, or during Sochi. I believe that it was already set for Cassandra to be history as soon as the Olympic closing ceremonies aired (or BEFORE, because some fans claimed Patrick Chan told them Scott and Cassandra had "broken up" before the Olympics but she couldn't refund the ticket).
DeleteI don't think there was a particular impression that Scott, individually, more than Scott and Tessa together, or Scott and Moirville, were "very involved" in choosing Cassandra. They needed a buddy and a hometown girl, he has a wide group of friends from when he went to school, his family knows all of their families, many of them were skaters or former skaters. Somebody was going to end up with the job who both wanted to do it (which certainly wouldn't be everybody) and, I speculate, was considered telegenic enough.
Who knows what the original point of contact was between VM's camp and Lawes. It's like show business. Somebody who already knows you, or somebody your introduced to and have a conversation with knows someone else and the next thing that happens is that other person's "people" gets in touch with your people, preliminary conversations are had, then maybe an in person conversation among the two camps and their teams.
Very possibly the preliminary Moirville conversation was - how about someone on the curling team or hockey team. Maybe they wanted to keep it out of skating because Skate Canada had been caught with their ass out during Jessica, throwing money and resources at that boondoggle, but they wanted the same advantages as Jessica (long distance, her own sports life, intersecting events where it would be easy to build in sham), an interest in self-promotion - while needing to stay away from a skating sham.
With Jessica it was competitions and everything connected to being part of the team (like High Performance Camp) that made shamming convenient. Always a million people around, and it was where Scott and Tessa had to be anyway.
With Kaitlyn, she's one of the many Canadian athletes on a sort of personal appearance tour, hooked up with sponsors, invited to sponsor events and fundraisers; it's not like there are a million of them. It's a small world, a specific circuit, and both she and VM are on it. That's what they were both doing this summer, so it was convenient. Scott and Tessa are going to events, Lawes is going to events, again, twofer, not a separate sham schedule. Their real life schedule, and just do sham while you're there, and as with Jessica, there are built-in buffers.
Or maybe they wanted a sham gf outside of skating because they won't be skating anymore. And they signed up for twitter because they no longer had built in press to slip in sham at each GP event and championship.
DeleteI really hope that's not the case, but it kinda makes sense.
That's true; they're not skating at least the first half of the season, so won't be going to competitions, although I do think they'd shy away from another Canadian figure skater girlfriend. There's the circuit that Olympic athletes do - they're all on the same lists, get invited to a lot of the same events, appearances, celebrations, that whole intersection of entertainment/sports/fashion/money/fundraising/promotion, etc.
DeleteIn addition to suspecting they wanted a curler or hockey player, Kaitlyn Lawes has been doing a lot of golf. I'm curious if Danny Fitz helped set it up, knowing her from prior season golf events.
If Cassandra was only in Sochi because she couldn't refund the ticket would she still hang out publicly with the Moirs and post pictures of the medal ceremony ?
DeleteIt always seemed to me like they dumped her as soon as something better came along in Sochi and then just pretended to not know her anymore.
I also doubt that this KLawes sham will last for long if Scott stops competing and loses media attention. She seems very eager to become a star and a retired ice dancer doesn't really fit into the picture.
The reality show threw a spanner in the works - I still don't know why they did it becuase it makes no sense (mind you, when does anything they ever do off-ice make sense?). Some big confessional tell-all is now completely off the table. Scott’s “relationship” with Cassandra is a matter of public record in the mainstream media - that cannot be explained in any way that generates sympathy. It was foolish of them not have a back-up plan in case they did get exposed. They have no way of knowing what could happen in the future - just becuase the media has been on their side and helped them sham now and in the past, doesn't mean it's always going to be that way.
Delete8:09 - "built in press" - the IFS did an article on Tessa's participation in the cbcwomens golf event, and I believe mentioned Scott as her caddie. As local as their media often is, and as big celebrities as they are in their communities, they could get coverage on a trip to the grocery. The activity around Tessa golfing/Scott caddying seems about getting fan attention on them amped up so the other shoe can drop and they'll get plenty of reaction. They've done it for years.
Delete"Scott’s “relationship” with Cassandra is a matter of public record in the mainstream media - that cannot be explained in any way that generates sympathy. " No it's not - the mainstream media didn't watch the freaking show. They don't know what was in it. They'll know how Scott and Tessa spin it and at the most do what Amanda Page did - read the summaries. Only fans watched it, and as we know, actual fans are never ever acknowledged in this sport. It's all about telling us who fans are (too female, too old, too crazy, not male enough).
DeleteThe fact that probably nobody who is "partnered" with Scott and Tessa even watched the reality show, and, if they know it happened, take at face value that it followed the ice dancers as they prepared for the Olympics, the end, shouldn't mitigate that Scott and Tessa did it, the content IS on the record, they are using twitter, a marketing platform, to continue the deception they sold in the reality show, at the same time name checking and plugging their sponsors. If the sponsors are all "Hey, we didn't know!" does it matter or not?
Delete"The reality show threw a spanner in the works - I still don't know why they did it becuase it makes no sense (mind you, when does anything they ever do off-ice make sense?). Some big confessional tell-all is now completely off the table. Scott’s “relationship” with Cassandra is a matter of public record in the mainstream media - that cannot be explained in any way that generates sympathy."
DeleteIn what universe are Scott and Tessa ever going to be confronted by an actual investigative journalist who does actual research, has the full picture of years of social media and legit media manipulation and disinformation, and asks uncomfortable questions? Journalists of that stripe have no freaking idea what's a Scott and Tessa. Even if they were "exposed" somehow, that's all that would be exposed - geez, those two are married after all. Nobody's going to be holding up their track record in the public square and call it out, because nobody but fans and those in the tank know the track record.
To date, Scott and Tessa have been "grilled" by entertainment personalities who subsequently proved themselves, shills, groupies and social friends of theirs. Ben and Jessica Mulroney. Jian Ghomeshi. Steve Milton. Or eager beaver freelancers falling over themselves for the credential.
Isn't it funny that only Ryan Pyette seems to have done any kind of comprehensive interview with Tessa and Scott about the reality show, and he covered his ass like nobody's business. I don't think there was a period or comma in his write-up that he wasn't careful to attribute directly to Scott and Tessa, lest we think he was independently verifying anything they said.
DeleteThey promoted the show a lot. How come they didn't have follow up articles while it was airing where they would talk about the show? Where was Rosie DiManno - she loves that shit. How come P.J. didn't sit them down midway and ask about different themes and scenes in the reality show?
Where were all their media friends who love to report on anything Scott and Tessa do? Why weren't they asked to pitch in here?
I expect the status quo to remain for a long time, but you never know if/when something happens that might put you in a bigger public arena. I'm sure Nancy Kerrigan never thought she would be internationally known for the whack or for her father being killed by her brother. I agree with 2:15 AM - just because the media that currently follows them has always treated them a certain way, doesn't mean they always will... if some crazy thing occurs and they get thrust in the spotlight and it becomes known they're married, there's not a ton you can do with photos of them standing next to Lawes, Semple, Andreev. Jessica is officially an ex-gf so the timeline can be fudged on the beach photos. But they appeared on National TV explicitly stating that Tessa was single and Scott was dating Cassandra, and in a very specific non-negotiable six-menses long time period, at a time when they had a small child. Nobody is interested in that now, but if they're ever in the spotlight and there's an interest, that material is easily pulled, and how would they ever explain it? I know nobody is going to literally go up to them asking them to explain, but it could make them entertainment fodder in the gossip rags. I don't understand what was so worthwhile about having Cassandra participate to make that risk acceptable. They could have just had her in the background with his parents and the fans would have implicitly understood she was the gf.
DeleteForgot to say, as far as "explanations" go, not putting one out is almost worse, because that gives everyone free reign to fill in the blanks themselves, and that wouldn't be pretty. So it seems that "what people think of them" is not the motive for the sham, and I still don't get it.
DeleteIt seems very careless to me for a company like Lindt not to check out the reality show to see how the athletes they've associated themselves with are presenting themselves to the public. If taking other people's word for it is how they conduct business it's a wonder they manage to make any money at all.
DeleteIt makes no sense to me for legitimate companies to affiliate themselves with people who so aggressively lie. That's one reason why I tend not to believe the theories that are presented on this blog.
Delete10:51
DeleteIt may make no sense but nevertheless, these companies have in fact affiliated themselves with VM, who aggressively lie.
Like the blogger, I'm also very interested in understanding why.
I think there's almost no chance of some sort of organized response to any "exposure." Who is going to go to the reality show and pull clips? Suppose Scott and Tessa are exposed unexpectedly somehow. What do we think happens? That mainstream media or entertainment media start matching their denials to the reality and runs it up the flag pole?
DeleteThey will be just another couple who pretended not to be together and turned out to be together. There's not going to be any further expose digging into all their lies now that the truth is out. It's going to be "they denied, but turns out they're married."
10:51 - Scott and Tessa's marriage and child isn't a theory; it's a fact. Furthermore, the blog has pointed out that these "legit companies" don't KNOW how Scott and Tessa aggressively lie. Do you think they have or have had someone tracking everything Scott and Tessa do? To them it's "Olympic champions, okay, married, but want to keep it on the down low until retirement, that's fine with us. Plenty of other athletes have done the same." Lindt probably has somebody lower down tallying twitter plugs if that's part of the agreement (okay, the quota has been met this week or whatever).
How would Lindt know that Scott and Tessa "aggressively lie." You think they actually watched the reality show? The promos just said here are our adorable skaters, join them as they train for the Olympics. Nothing about being single and dating. Do you think Lindt knows what went down with their facebooks? Do you think Lindt watched Ben Mulroney or Jian Ghomeshi?
Scott and Tessa's vetting is - they're Olympic champions, they're figure skaters, no criminal record, no bad press, good image, good relationships, good fit, the end. They don't read the blog.
" I agree with 2:15 AM - just because the media that currently follows them has always treated them a certain way, doesn't mean they always will... if some crazy thing occurs and they get thrust in the spotlight and it becomes known they're married, there's not a ton you can do with photos of them standing next to Lawes, Semple, Andreev. Jessica is officially an ex-gf so the timeline can be fudged on the beach photos. But they appeared on National TV explicitly stating that Tessa was single and Scott was dating Cassandra, and in a very specific non-negotiable six-menses long time period, at a time when they had a small child. "
DeleteReally. And who is going to point the "media" to all of those facebook photos and tweets? This is the entertainment media - I don't know if it's registered with people here that the people likely to cover any "expose" of Scott and Tessa's marriage ALREADY KNOW. Do we really think they're going to do anything but spin doctor, empathize and downplay?
Do we think mainstream journalism - what there is of it, is going to devote real resources to this shit? How much time do we think the media will spend on this hypothetical story? How much energy? They're going to RESEARCH it?
The reality show never publicized that Cassandra was going to be featured heavily on it - when/if any media entity even goes to google and googles the reality show, they're going to see bright happy promos for Tessa and Scott, Scott and Tessa's interviews, episode summaries and a bunch of quotes about how it's a great chronicle of their Olympic training. And even if they knew Scott and Tessa shammed, the fake bf/gf is in general a big "eh" as a story because it's widespread. Nobody's going to pull "kissing photos" or any other material reviewed on the blog. From where? Where are they going to get the photos? The blog has them because they were saved at the time they were published, and before they disappeared. Where's the media going to get them? From the blog? I don't think so. The entertainment media relies on the good will of talent management and representation; the entire network of sports/entertainment of which media is a part. They're not going to screw over somebody's talent and create bad blood.
Maybe they're going to post requests on message boards for fans to upload anything they've got saved?
How big a story do we think this is going to be? REAL story, not entertainment story, where everybody will be falling over themselves helping Scott and Tessa, because they already know.
I am asking a lot of questions that I don't have the answers to, the main one being, there is no accountability in figure skating because it's such a niche sport with no informed reporting on and off the ice, nobody tracks what's said and done on and off the ice, and the fact that there's zero accountability means that the personalities inside the sport, on and off the ice, can make up reality when they want to. We see this with Davis White's skating and Scott and Tessa's relationship. Scott and Tessa are so comfortable inside this culture that they work it against their own fans, constantly getting out there to basically instigate a reaction from fans that allows them to justify the game playing they do. To the sponsors, it doesn't look like game playing - it looks like a couple of personable skaters participating in a golf event then immediately going to Saskatoon for a charity event. However, as I know the sponsors have to know Scott and Tessa are married, and I believe that if this weren't figure skating, people would automatically class it up a little more, show more respect, but as it's figure skating, there's no need to even pay attention to those people (fans), I'm wondering if maybe Lindt and pb chocolate milk should start trying to treat those people the way they'd treat members of the public they respect a little more, and encourage their athletes to do the same.
DeleteWhen some fan insists that if Scott and Tessa were married and with a child, somebody would expose them (mean, photograph and then post the stone cold evidence on the internet for everyone to see), I always ask them to break down how they think this will happen. Don't just go "Oh it would happen." No, break it down if you're so sure. HOW? Who? And why would they? Look at all the components that would have to line up to make that happen. And if you think it's so ridiculous they haven't been 'exposed', please tell me another situation where a celebrity has been 'exposed' this way by a non-tabloid. Just some person - co-worker, fan, family member, concierge - whatever - manages to get "evidence" of a celebrity secret and tosses it onto the internet. Let's say Clooney is gay. You mean to tell me not ONE hotel maid, not one private airline employee or yacht staff or former household staff or member of his team or one of his business who no longer works for him has a SINGLE PHOTO?
DeleteYou know, I bet someone does, because I know a case where someone has photos of someone else. Hasn't put them on the web though.
Yet skeptics who come to the blog think running to the internet and exposing some celeb's personal secret is the norm.
So now I ask the same thing about the media. What media? Let's say Tessa and Scott are caught somehow. What does that look like? What's a potential scenario? Then, when you say "the media" may turn on them, remember that the media has been in bed with them. But set that aside. WHAT part of the media? Just like with the ISU, the media is people. Who? What network? What paper? What online website? They see that it's "out" that Scott and Tessa are married, and everybody knows the "couple have denied being involved until now." and after those two pieces of information, the story gets bigger - how?
I sometimes think that the people who believe Scott and Tessa will be "caught" believe it's sheer luck Tessa hasn't turned up in the background of some instagram photo giving her little girl animal crackers. They think that all kinds of people have their iphones out while Scott and Tessa are around with their kid, and one day, a photo is going to get uploaded by mistake. Hasn't happened in what - 8 years? and yet Scott and Tessa most definitely are married with a daughter. But I guess 8 years and no slip ups isn't conscious. We all know how slapdash celebrities are about social media - it's just like taking a photo with a regular camera at a party and catching people in the background or over there by the counter - only it's going online to be seen by thousands of people. But the person uploading didn't notice, forgot their pals were celebrities, and forgot how many people were going to see the upload. Scott and Tessa have just been lucky.
DeleteI don't think VM will ever be outed by the media but if they decided to come clean right now there's no guarantee no one would bring up the reality show. Not necessarily the usual entertainment media that's all buddy-buddy with them but outsiders, like American gossip sites who may be interested because of their connection to Meryl and Charlie, for example. OF course VM's plan is probably to wait so long that no one will care about them anymore and it'll probably work just fine.
DeleteThe blog talked about that recap when it did its own recapping. That's from one blogger on the W's living section, and all she says about Cassandra is they greet each other with an embrace in the foyer and she's i.d. as his girlfriend. FF and if this is even referenced it gets neatly shoved under "kept their marriage secret/private so they could begin their family in peace, and pretended to date others."
DeleteAgain, much of the media (if not this living section blogger) that people think will cover any kind of expose' already know Scott and Tessa are married. They already know there's pretending to date other people. It's the "how" not the "what" that people/fans seem to want exposed, and that's the part the media is mostly clueless about. The bare facts are unremarkable - eh, they were married and wanted to keep it private while in the Olympic spotlight, like so many other Olympians before them, and pretended to date others.
And that's if it goes even that far. Again, Anastasia Bucsis was in legit media as Patrick Chan's 2011 girlfriend. A couple of years later she comes "out", shares her story about being in the closet in 2010, and the entire Patrick Chan piece is edited out. Seems relevant to me, since the article talked about the fear of coming out, and a lot of that fear might have to do with losing sponsorships, losing fans, being judged. A gay woman acquiring a famous boyfriend seems like it would be part of that story, but nope. Why isn't it in the story? Do you think because reporters don't really want to deal with it? I do. If the media is so eager to make connections and follow trails, why doesn't anyone ask why Patrick Chan was dating a closeted gay speed skater?
Are we kidding? Everybody's going to just let that one lie there.
They don't care about the parts of the story that apparently irritated fans care about. They care about the parts of the story that flatter and sympathize with the celebrity.
I think Tessa and Scott will be "exposed" and all of the evidence (such as that one recap on the W Network's Living Section blog) just about the same time Davis and White are exposed as non-skaters for whom the ISU hijacked an undeserved gold medal, and just as soon as the media google "Davis White overrated" and start taking Beverly Smith's Sochi article seriously. Just as soon as the media gets off its ass and thinks, hey, maybe the skating rulebook ISN'T in Farsi, and gives it a read, then watches some youtube video to see what edges look like, and matches it against two minutes of Davis White on the ice.
DeleteThat's not going to happen. Someone here said that those who cover figure skating are self-selecting - they like the culture. Figure skating doesn't want real sports writers who are interested in treating it like an actual sport. Celebrity media and entertainment media works the same way. Unless you're a tabloid (and Canada doesn't have those the way the U.S. has them), celebrity and entertainment media is p.r., the end. It's nice, it's happy, it's sympathetic and empathetic, it spins to the positive side, it tries to be humorous, and it raises false issues the better to easily address/dismiss them. That's the personality of entertainment/media. Most people in entertainment media are trying to grow their own brand, built their own celebrity, and partner with some of the same management teams that represent the celebrities they cover.
Case in point - Saskatoon Gobal. That Saskatoon traffic guy tweeted that he was in the same restaurant as Tessa and Scott eating with Babcock. Some here immediately thought that must be an "oops" but of course it was not. His colleague on the morning news had promoted Drive Fore Prostate, and furthermore, it turns out that a bunch of Saskatoon Global on air personalities were golfing in the event - fellow celebrities alongside folks like Scott and Tessa. "Media" are celebrities too. You golf alongside Scott and Tessa, or, like Ben Mulroney, you attend the White Knight Ball with Scott and Tessa while Tessa and Jessica Mulroney fangirl over each other's fashionista ass, and when they're "exposed", Ben's network or someone else Scott and Tessa had lunch with last week turns all Woodward Bernstein on them. Okay.
Delete^golfing in the event and looking to promote it - hence the tweet, done, no question, with Scott and Tessa's green light.
DeleteThat is one woman's blog on the living section of the W network, and it reads like her trying to be colorful and entertaining. The actual episode summaries (you know "On tonight's Tessa and Scott" - the summaries Amanda Page used) don't get into detail.
DeleteWhat do you think the media would do with that blog's description? That's really my question. What's the format of this "Scott and Tessa are married!" story that comes out before they're ready? Do you think the media wants to make Scott and Tessa look bad, or look good, when it comes out they're married, if it comes out before Scott and Tessa intend to come out? Remember again, the people covering this already KNOW. They're not going ZOMG - they're married! "They're going - oh look at that - how do we want to cover it?" and their people get on the phone with Danny Fritz to get his story, his people say they'll call back in time for the story to run, they do, it's nice and sympathetic and that's all she wrote; everybody's happy, everybody stays friends.
Maybe at some point a billion years later a Beverly Smith of the entertainment media world will blog with a little more detail and say she thinks what Scott and Tessa did actually wasn't very nice and if you look at how long it went on, they don't exactly look like the fresh and honest Canadian role models we're told they are; it seems a little cynical, and it raises questions about how closely sponsors vet their talent, and it looked like everybody was in bed with each other enjoying each other's celebrity and nobody was really paying any attention to if what Scott and Tessa were doing was actually necessary or decent.
Maybe someone will write something like that at some point. A brave outlier.
And just like with Beverly Smith's article on Davis White, everyone will jump on what this person says and go "OMG, that's right!"
^They're still not going to watch the freaking show, not least because they don't WANT to watch the freaking show. They don't particularly WANT to rake Scott and Tessa over the coals. If they think that W blog is "out there" and needs to be addressed or people will ask why (and I think that's a stretch), then they'll mention Scott snuggled with a "gf" on the reality show because they were still keeping their marriage secret, and while they wanted a record of their Olympic preparation, for the sake of their child they wanted to keep their marriage private.
DeleteSee? What does it matter - the whole point of the reality show was to chronicle athletes preparing for the Olympics.
^Here's what happens with that W recap if anyone covering our hypothetical "Scott and Tessa - EXPOSED!" story actually comes upon it while preparing their own coverage (ha ha) instead of following the links suggested to them by Danny Fritz, or, better yet, whipping out a story based upon his response to their email.
DeleteThey'll go - do we want to use that? And probably go, no, it's not really relevant.
Because, the story isn't how Scott and Tessa behaved while lying and shamming. That's the story on the blog. That's not the story the media want to tell. The story the media will want to tell is: "Scott and Tessa are married!" (although the couple have denied it up til now). They're not looking to tell a story about their behavior. That's not the story.
Furthermore, we can count on something like - "Turns out that 5.0 on the Richter scale wasn't an earthquake after all, it was the sound of millions of figure skating fans blissfully fainting in sheer joy when it was revealed this morning that Canada's gorgeous sweethearts, Scott Moir and Tessa Virtue, are actually man and wife."
I'm 2:03 and I'm not talking about VM being exposed against their will but about the eventual coming out. Of course the mainstream/official entertainment media won't rake them over the coals but in the Internet age there are lots of alternative media that doesn't care about losing access or making VM look good, gossip websites or blogs with a big readership, for example. They're not going to expose VM but they might do the 30 second search and include a link to the episode recaps. Then there's people on social media and on forums who would share the link around, along with the link for this site (traffic would go up 10 000%). It would die down eventually but I think there'd always be a stain there. People generally don't like being lied to and lots of people are going to wonder why it was necessary to lie at all, no matter how the journalists try to spin it.
DeleteAnd that's why I think there's a good chance they'll never come out with the truth, stop with the shamming at some point but never admit to anything and just live their life. This works fine for them but I hope their kids rehearse their fake stories about their parents and upbringing in case they ever end up in the media for some accomplishment or other. It really isn't fair to make your kids lie for you, or to lie about them for their whole lives, making them think there's something shameful about them. Hopefully they have the guts to not go down that road.
Nobody on the web shares around the evidence that Scott and Tessa lied their asses off about the rift they continue to talk about, do they? When the blog put together a chronological video showing Jessica in what amounted to a Moir holding pen on Vancouver 2010 free dance night, kept away from Scott until he had hugged and kissed and celebrated with everybody in the building including the maintenance crew, and until finally in the wee hours she was led like a perp to the Kiss'n'Cry for a pro forma hug documented by Alma's camera, how many people went 'Gee, that looks pretty funky. Let's explore further!" I think that lady's W Living blog, which reports that Scott apparently cuddled with Cassandra Hilborn on the reality show, is going to be hand waved like everything else.
DeleteI think you are overestimating the interest the internet, blogs, etc., have in "taking people down." They're interested in sucking up. The episode recaps are not a big deal and people might even be, ha ha, he was faking and married to Tessa the entire time!" - and that's what they care about. Not that they faked anything, but that he was married to Tessa the entire time. Oh joy! Ha ha - it was just faking - he was never with that woman! You could so tell, too! :) Oh Scott. Thank you lord!
Of course there will be pissed off fans. There are pissed off fans now and they don't matter.
A deliberate coming out is unbelievably simple. There are so many approaches. It can be piggybacked onto an article about something else. It doesn't have to be the headline. Virtue and Moir blah blah and achieved blah blah and, now, accompanied by the ecstatic screams of their gazillion fans, reveal that they're a married duo and even have a couple of kids. Why do some celebrities feel the need to conceal their romantic status? Our reporter went to [fill in name of p.r. director from somewhere] for answers." The p.r. person explains the very sympathetic reasons celebrities do this: "Today, our athletes are also celebrities. Celebrity is a job just like figure skating. Many athletes and performers don't want their celebrity to encroach on every aspect of their lives, even though it comes with the territory. They want to keep some things private. Especially for athletes, many of whom feel the focus should be on their athletic accomplishments, not their personal lives, but in today's media climate, not to mention the internet, that's very hard to achieve. Covering up your real status can be a way of keeping it real for yourselves, staying grounded, maintaining a healthy private life. Especially for athletes. Unlike actors and performers, for athletes, celebrity is often an unwanted byproduct of success." Then the article says that seems to be the case here, because Scott Moir agrees.: "Blah blah blah" he says firmly. Whatever people may say, he and Tessa don't regret their decision; their private life is their private life and while a certain amount of personality marketing comes with dinner, all they owed the public was the skating. That's where they wanted the focus to be. They understand people's curiosity, but whether people like it or not, protecting their family was number one.
Listen, Davis and White decided they had chemistry you could "cut with a knife." and while some fans derided it, the derision had no impact whatsoever.
Besides, reveals are orchestrated. If Scott and Tessa decide to reveal, they're not just going to throw a press release out to the dogs one day and hope for the best. They're going to set it up. They'll pick the person who breaks the news and spins the news. They'll get everybody on board with the spin, same way everybody was on board with the spin about Davis and White. By the time "we" hear get the reveal, it'll be a production.
This is not news.This isn't unique to Scott and Tessa. Entertainment reports and reactions/coverage are set up well in advance.The only exception, and even then only somewhat, is if a celebrity intersects with the legal system.Then it gets a little bit rougher, more is permitted, but still the coverage is cautious.
DeleteHere's an example. A couple of years ago, it appeared that the writer/producer of Mad Men, Matthew Weiner, had decided to throw most of Season 5 to Jessica Pare's character, Megan. On the Season premiere, she sang a song - Zou Bisou Bisou. Following the premiere, the internet and print media was swamped with articles talking about what a sensation she was, a star is born, the breakout star of Mad Men, here at last the character Mad Men needed to bust through the cynicism of everyone else on Mad Men. Then a few quotes from Pare.
Now give me a break.You don't premiere Mad Men on Sunday, and then run a gazillion versions of the same article on Tuesday and Wednesday morning, all talking about a star is born, stopped the show, where did she come from, let's ask! complete with an interview with Pare, and believe all of this happened between end of show at 11pm Sunday night and when the articles ran Tuesday and Wednesday.That entire "She's a sensation!" was lined up on the tarmac ready to roll way before the episode ever aired. That was p.r.
But nobody tells us this. As far as we were told, all of these media outlets watched the premiere, all the outlets decided as one that Jessica Pare was an overnight sensation, and rushed to their laptops to bang out the story, then got her on the horn for a few quotes.
Scott and Tessa's reveal, including the media coverage of the reveal, will be as manufactured as that. It would be no surprise if they've already spitballed and trial run a few scenarios.
I don't know where you get the idea there are all these rogue bloggers, reporters, observers on the web. Where are they? In figure skating there's here, there's cuteiceprincessblog, there's canadablue's videos, a couple more, and we all talk to each other while having zero influence on the sport.
Here's the thing - it's easy to say there's all these rouge corners of the internet, ready to rattle sabers. Okay. Who? When you spend a lot of time on the internet, it contracts. I bet a lot of people who visit this blog are already familiar with most of the English language websites that cover figure skating, are familiar with non-English Language websites and discussion boards that cover figure skating, and are familiar with whatever random journalist, blog, web page has displayed a passing interest in figure skating. There's no secret army waiting under cover. So when Scott and Tessa are "exposed" or decide on their own to come clean, who are these bloggers/online journalists, etc., who will rake them over the coals. What are these bloggers/online journalists, etc. talking about now?
DeleteI’m really not sure why the reaction to these statements is so aggressive… ? So people are speculating about whether, how, and why Tessa and Scott might get outed? So what?
DeleteI’m 10:15 AM, haven’t posted since, so a lot to catch up on:
As far as facebook photos and tweets, I actually said that those were not a big deal; if found, they’re so easily explained that they might not even be printed. When something happens, the Daily Mail usually goes right to facebook and pulls all relevant photos. It’s a trash site but I know whenever I read it I’ll have no need to google anyone cause they’ll explain who everyone is and pull all the photos they can, even for people who are not even celebrities. Some of the older stuff might be deleted, but there are current photos of him with Lawes that could be culled (“in a facebook post dated XX/XX/XX, a user identified Olympic Champion Kaitlyn Lawes as Moir’s girlfriend in the photo seen here…” – no libel suit, because it’s technically true that someone identified them as such). I am not sure if any of the photos with the other shammers is still online. Maybe the Cassandra stuff but she’s not a celeb.
I think there’s a huge gulf between legit media and the skating media. There’s lots of garbage websites who exist solely to churn out as many stories as they can about some silly topic du jour. Johnny Weir is a figure skater too, and who would have ever thought that one day he would get into an altercation with his husband and intimate details would be blasted all over TMZ daily, and eventually addressed on Access Hollywood (albeit he is a correspondent there), E Online, Huffington Post, Page Six, Perez Hilton, People, US, Magazine, and the LA Times (that’s whatever was listed on the first page of a google search I did for “johnny weir divorce”). When Pasha Grishuk’s drink got spiked, that even made TMZ, even thought it had been over a decade since she competed and she’s Russian. That story died quickly due to no interest. I think Tessa and Scott’s story would get more interest than Grishuk, but less than Weir’s.
cont...
DeleteAn example I’ll give is a soap star named Michael Muhney. He was not even one of the best known veteran soap actors, and the soap audience is even more marginalized than that of skating. When he got fired mid-contract, a rumor that he had groped a young female co-star on set originated on soap message boards, and ended up being confirmed via an anonymous source to TMZ. The story surprisingly went viral. I think the reason for this is that each TMZ entry was generating hundreds of comments and links back from every soap related site. I can easily see that being the case if anything like that about VM ever came out – a niche entertainment platform with thousands of fans wanting to comment. Various entertainment websites like Radar Online continued to dig around. Some stories of Muhney being a jerk to Kristen Bell when he was fired from his supporting role on Verica Mars came to light. That “crazy days and nights” blogger revealed some old blind items of his involving sexual contact between an actor and fans was based on Muhney.
All of these stories had been protected or ignored for many years because he was not a big celeb, but they came out all at once… things snowball is what I’m saying. Nobody gives a shit now, but if they ever do, VM have provided cannon fodder and it is very easy to find. Unlike 3:18 PM, I am talking about a scenario where VM get inadvertently outed and then it snowballs. Skating fans love it when our little sport gets covered alongside real celebs. I can completely see skating fans providing tons of hits, comments, retweets, youtube and google+ shares to an initial story involving VM, that would make these gossip sites go, oh, let’s put out more material from different angles. I have no idea if the Canadian media has this kind of mill. OC is saying it doesn’t. I think they could get coverage on the US sites – probably not People or E, but certainly TMZ or Radar Online and junk like that for as long as the story generated interest. Muhney’s story made it to gossip websites in Europe where his soap doesn’t even air.
I think that stars like soap stars and figure skaters are in a very interesting position – they’re NOT Clooney, Travolta, or Cruise, and that’s why they can’t protect themselves as much in the event of the leak. They exist in their close-knit niche media world where nothing gets reported, but once they become interesting to the public at large, there is no film studio or major agent behind them that says if you print that story we cut off your access to our other stars. I mean, what, is Skate Canada going to threaten that TMZ doesn't get access to Weaver Poje if they run with a story? IMO it could be like a dam that breaks for VM. As with Weir, it doesn’t go on forever, but I imagine it would be uncomfortable for a while.
VM are telegenic and seemingly perfect – IMO, it would be an interesting story as to why people like that would hide a marriage and a child. IMO, it’s completely different from a lesbian having a beard boyfriend – the rationale for that is so obvious it hardly deserves to be mentioned. What Tessa and Scott have done is rare – most celebs WANT to pimp their children out. It’s quite bizarre and I can see it being grist for the mill for a few weeks.
cont
Delete“I always ask them to break down how they think this will happen. Don't just go "Oh it would happen." No, break it down if you're so sure. HOW? Who? And why would they? Look at all the components that would have to line up to make that happen.”
I said when/if. I don’t think it will for sure. It’s hard to guess at scenarios. Look at Tiger Woods – it was hidden for years and then came out because of a car accident right by his house. What if Tessa and Scott ended up in some drunken argument/accident (no, I don’t think Scott is an alcoholic)? I know they’re married, and I like to believe it’s a happy one, but I don’t see them every day and for all I know the relationship really is dysfunctional. Johnny Weir’s case started out with a rather minor domestic incident (scratching, I think). You never know what it could be.
“And if you think it's so ridiculous they haven't been 'exposed', please tell me another situation where a celebrity has been 'exposed' this way by a non-tabloid. Just some person - co-worker, fan, family member, concierge - whatever - manages to get "evidence" of a celebrity secret and tosses it onto the internet.”
I don’t think it’s ridiculous (you seem to be on auto-pilot arguing against people who would say “their marriage has never been exposed, therefore it doesn’t exist” which is not what anyone in this particular conversation has been arguing). That they are protected by their niche sport now doesn’t mean they will be forever. I think it would have to be some kind of incident that sparks the interest, but *once the interest is there* they’ve put out stuff which I consider public domain and easy to find (Cassandra), and to me the topic of WHY they would go that far and take (what I consider to be) that risk is very interesting, when Cassandra could have just been IDed as girlfriend by the fans just from standing around in the background. That would have caused the necessary twitter drama just as surely as them making out, IMO. I feel these conversations are being derailed by you insisting that such a reveal is so implausible, but I and some of the other posters are just trying to discuss some hypotheticals IF they ever got outed. I find the convo interesting, and since we can't have it anywhere else, I hate that its getting obfuscated by all of these interrogations about why we think anybody would ever cover this, etc. The convo on my end is not an attempt to discredit the blog, if that's how it's being taken.
"I said when/if. I don’t think it will for sure. It’s hard to guess at scenarios. Look at Tiger Woods – it was hidden for years and then came out because of a car accident right by his house. What if Tessa and Scott ended up in some drunken argument/accident (no, I don’t think Scott is an alcoholic)? I know they’re married, and I like to believe it’s a happy one, but I don’t see them every day and for all I know the relationship really is dysfunctional. Johnny Weir’s case started out with a rather minor domestic incident (scratching, I think). You never know what it could be."
DeleteI agree, 6:49. You never know what life is going to dish up. Maybe VM are driving along with their kids and get hit by a drunk driver. Most child abductions are not by strangers, but what if god forbid someone snatched Little Moir or the likely new baby and plastering it all over the news was necessary to try to find the child? Shit happens in this world and sometimes it results in things being outed that wouldn't have otherwise.
I don't know what VM have planned for the future but if they decide not to pursue a career in the spotlight they can get away with the sham quite easily. At leasr in the media.
DeleteEven if they keep coaching on the elite level there shouldn't be much of an issue. All we know about the likes of Zoueva or Igor is what they chose to share with the public. We don't know much about their private lives.
Unless something tragic happens VM can easily keep the facade in tact.
I don't understand why they would continue shamming if they weren't planning on continuing to compete. The amount of times they would be seen in retirement compared to competing would be a lot lower. A month on CSOI and a few shows here and there wouldn't require shamming at a level they are at right now, if at all. They wouldn't be seen that much in public post competitive career.
Delete^I've always said the primary way celebrity secrets stop being secret is if they intersect with the law/legal system (that includes lawsuits, divorce filings, etc.). Of course if Scott and Tessa end up tangled in the legal system somehow, then things become public. However, what would be exposed is fact that they're married, which, to a news media, isn't exactly stop the presses. To entertainment media; they already know and are going to spin it.
DeleteI've used Tiger Woods as an example of celebrity dirt coming out because of an encounter with the law, but what came out there was sleaze, not - oh look, he and Elin are actually married! How sweet. The Kerrigan knee whack was a crime. The soap actor was accused of, basically, sexual assault or at least improper behavior. I don't think that case reached the legal system, but it was a matter of a guy losing his job because of sleazy behavior. Virtue and Moir are a married couple who pretend they're not. I do know how entertainment journalism works, and, sad to say, a lot of supposed legitimate journalism doesn't work that differently. The primary issue here isn't going to be perceived as all that big a deal to most media. It's not a big story. There's all the media that already knows about them, which many of the scenarios put forth above keep overlooking. To mainstream media it's going to be celebrities who - shocker - pretended to be platonic when they were together all along. Join the club, Scott and Tessa, you have lots of company.
There's also this factor:
Delete1. Tons of people already know.
2. There's the people on the internet; but there's also many fans who've seen Scott and Tessa skate, love their skating, assumed they were together, and never took it to the next step of going to message boards (do you know how many people have no idea message boards exist?) and learning that Scott and Tessa say they're not. A lot of the regular public would be "I thought everyone knew they WERE together? Oh, they used to say they weren't? That was silly - it was so obvious."
3. Any reveal isn't going to be geared towards online skating fans and what concerns them.
How much of the media jumped on Sale & Pelletier's divorce. None, I think. They'd spent the previous two years interviewing, performing, and working Vancouver Olympic events as a married couple. Went on tour afterwards as a married couple. Then revealed they'd been separated a year and a half. That's a new gambit, btw. Celebrities either wait that long or pretend a separation has been in place that long, to put a ton of distance between the personal event and the announcement. Not many news outlets are going to say - wait, what happened two years ago that led to the end of your marriage? It's a done deal and long over by the time the announcement is made, and it's treated that way. I don't recall anyone calling them out for pretending to be married and together the entire time they were apart, and what Scott and Tessa are doing is closer to that than what Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong, the soap guy and Tonya Harding's boyfriend were accused of doing.
DeleteI think there's a very good chance Sale & Pelletier's divorce wasn't that big a story because not only did the skating world already know they were split, but they did a lot of media work and it's likely it was pretty much known long before it got out. There are celebrity couples now who are split and still pretending to be a unit, and it's not going to get out til they want it out.
Except a divorce is an understandable outcome that happens quite often, VM hiding a mariage and child is bizarre, and I can see that weirdness attracting interest from people and publications who usually wouldn't care at all about Canadian figure skaters, like TMZ.
Delete11:13
DeleteI agree it could come across so bizarre it could create great interest. Yes, it's true what oc has been saying about the way the entertainment media works. In most circumstances, I expect it would play out exactly like she's laid out, where at some point it becomes known (whether they do it themselves or someone "outs" them), but because it's not illegal nor improper (like accusations of sexual misconduct) it's simply given a wink and a nod and they and the media move on. The end.
I hope for VM's sake it's as benign as that. But it's also true things can take a turn no one expected. VM may not be "stars" in the US but they could potentially attract a lot of unwanted attention because they *are* Olympic champions. A lot depends on the twist the story takes at the time. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion there wouldn't be negative fallout.
I think what VM have done is incredibly risky, especially taking things mainstream with the reality show. It's stupid for anyone, no matter how "niche" they think they are, to assume things will play out in their favor simply because that's the most likely scenario.
All of that is only speculations re. the media. I think what they've done as far as consequences to their children's psyche is potentially far worse and so much more irresponsible than the risks of media fallout.
It all depends on how they spin it. If VM do it themselves, it's going to be set up in advance with prepared spin, all the media singing from the playbook. Don't forget the media KNOWS. The media can easily spin it as the same old same old of romantically involved people officially pretending to be platonic. That's not bizarre to the media and not bizarre to a lot of fans following celebrity culture. The list is long. Yeah, there are kids involved but who is going to compel the media to emphasize the bizarre aspects of this? It's normalized now behind the scenes (routine with sponsors, other athletes, other media personalities). Behind the scenes, Scott and Tessa are known as a married couple with a child, who pretend to be platonic and have fake SO for social media/interview/reality show. It's not scaring anybody off that I can see. People may say, well, it's not what I'd have done, but I'm not them, the End.
Delete
DeleteI think things will play in their favor because celebrities (absent the legal aspect) control how things play. Again, it's not just cross your fingers and hail mary a press release into the maw of the media. They know plenty of people in the media; these will likely be the ones breaking the story and the other media outlets will just re-gurgitate.
I don't know about foregone conclusion, but I think just about as close as you can predict one.
The media KNOWS. Tracy Wilson, for one, has always known, and she's totally hooked up to the big figure skating broadcast network in the U.S., NBC. If it even got that big (and I think it wouldn't) - it would be Wilson addressing it. But I really think we're talking about Sale Pelletier level understatement/no follow through UNLESS Virtue and Moir want, like and encourage the drama. I think it's up to them, actually, how it plays.
In the NBC winter Olympics coverage, they did a ton of background/fluff on people's personal lives. Here's the story with "Scott and Jessica"
1. Jessica Dube is famous for having her face slashed in 2007 by her partner's skate. It was used in her Olympic fluff.
2. Her partner, Bryce, was Scott Moir's best friend.
3. Dube Davison themselves chose to go to tellement sports (their equivalent of the "Tessa and Scott" reality show, condensed) and basically let it be known that since she started dating Scott Moir, it has ruined the friendship between Bryce and Scott.
Think about what they put out there. Jessica already had her face slashed by her partner's skate. She could have lost an eye, had her skull opened or her throat slit. It was a matter of inches.
Bryce seems to be a little upset that she's dating Scott. He and Scott aren't friends anymore. Yet he and Jessica are competing in the Olympics together, alongside Scott and Tessa, who are favorites for gold. Can Bryce handle the pressure? Will the tensions between him and Scott impact his performance on the ice and endanger Jessica? Let's talk to the skaters.
Scott is skating with a gorgeous partner he clearly adores (their fluff emphasized that too.). But, come free dance night, Jessica is prominantly positioned dead center among the Moirs. A camera has been positioned in the stands by the Moirs, with the sole job of capturing their reactions when Scott and Tessa win gold.
There's Tom Hammond, identifying the Moirs, playing the violin, and not mentioning Jessica Dube, Scott's "gf" whose face is bigger than life right in front of his nose. How come?
When networks do Olympic prep, there's tons of field prep getting the background stories/packages. Don't tell me this wasn't a big, fabulous soap opera story/triangle with Scott/Jessica/Bryce. The skaters themselves, particularly Bryce/Jessica, had advertised it.
Gee, the mainstream media were all "What's a Jessica" when the time came to broadcast the free dance. It wasn't an oversight. They knew what it really was. That was four years ago. This is an old story to the media.
As some have pointed out, if Scott and Tessa intersect with the law in some way, and it hits the mainstream press, it might not go exactly as they'd want it to, but there are things going for them there, as well. All this platonic stuff isn't really on the mainstream media's radar. If something that happened with the law made the news, it would likely be reported as "Driving with his wife." or whatever, very matter of fact, because the non-skating press wouldn't really no the background. Then figure skating media and entertainment could decide how they want to cover that. Don't think they don't already have some idea of how they'll spin it. (Not if Scott and Tessa are in some type of unexpected legal event, but if it comes out.)
^^Revisiting way upthread - I do now wonder if "Ice, Sweat and Tears" was intended by Scott and Tessa to be what "Tessa and Scott" eventually became, but the tsn network decided not to get on board. Certainly what we saw in "Ice, Sweat and Tears" was very different than what was advertised, and was not nearly as Scott and Tessa-centric as promoted.
DeleteThat's an interesting thought. It was originally supposed to be a documentary about VM, but then Chan and the pairs team got added in and I never understood it. That would mean they'd been shopping around the idea of a reality show for years, which wouldn't surprise me at all. I always found it funny how some VM fans would complain that they had hardly any access to PR opportunities... here's a team who released a book, had two reality shows about them, tons of press in the skating, sports, and entertainment media. They just chose to waste those opportunities on stupid shit. Remember the Modern Bride shoot? LOL. That's what they were worrying about going into the Olympics, and some fans were all "the poor things, they finally have a chance to get exposure and make a little money and people get mad?"
DeleteI've been thinking about this. There are companies who are getting on board with VM, but I wonder if there are companies that have turned them down but we just don't know about it. Have there been other potential sponsors who have wanted nothing to do with this sham?
ReplyDeleteGreat points. I am disgusted by this behaviour and will never spend my money on PB chocolate milk or Lindt. Good job ruining your reputations and taking several companies down with you VM and Lawes. What a bunch of losers.
ReplyDeleteI'm so over VM.
DeleteThis quote is from OC, from the comments in the previous entry:
"It's not about covering for Scott and Tessa being together, and it's not about convincing fans of any sham. It's being assholes, and it's mainly narrative that they've been working on every bit as aggressively as Davis White's partisans worked to get them a gold they didn't earn on the ice. WE're the point, the sham is not the point. It's about getting us to behave a certain way, instigating that behavior, then using it to scapegoat fans/their supporters for their decisions.
I don't think the blog (or fans, for that matter) should attempt to countermanipulate. This is what they're doing. If it "plays into their hands" or whatever, as some fans have complained, that is not really the problem of the public or the fans, or their responsibility. The responsibility for this exploitation and manipulation is Scott and Tessa's."
That's how I feel - exploited and manipulated.
It's gotten to the point I have a hard time wanting to watch any of their skating like I used to love to do. Maybe some day things will change and they'll stop with all this. For now I can't stand them nor the products they endorse.
Unfortunately, I remain interested in seeing how this trainwreck evolves. That keeps me checking this blog. But they've lost the goodwill of this fan.
http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/Canada+hottest+celebrity+couples/6382409/story.html
ReplyDeleteRemember this? In the four years since Sochi, it's the only time the media's ever hinted at their real status. So many people have helped them with their crap, if only by not saying anything. It's depressing.
*since Vancouver
ReplyDeleteFYI - there's someone who comments here who, despite repeated warnings, refuses to deal with what's actually said in either the blog or the comments section. They're off the comments section and will continue to be.
ReplyDeleteOC, have you come across this? http://skateguard1.blogspot.ca/2014/08/ice-theatre-of-new-york-doesnt-look-day.html
ReplyDeleteThe third to the last paragraph (I think) mentions the ITNY AD working with Edward Villella on Disson's Shall We Dance On Ice. Villella of Balanchine 'Rubies' and 'Prodigal Son' fame (his wife is a former Canadian skater) and used to be AD of Miami City Ballet. I must say, it's a shame that EV's expertise and choreography will be utterly wasted on DW, who don't exhibit/understand nuance at all...
Honestly, if VM weren't so competitive, I could see ITNY's work might appeal to them to some extent.
"How would Lindt know that Scott and Tessa "aggressively lie."
ReplyDeleteIf they don't already know (which I would find *very* surprising -- corporate legal departments exist for a reason, one of which is to protect assets by not letting their clients get into deals with people who have not been vetted), then they will learn when customers like myself tell them so. I'm disgusted by Tessa and Scott, and by extension, any company that supports them. I used to buy Lindt chocolate, but not anymore. Lindt, and Tessa and Scott can do whatever the hell they want. I just want Lindt to know that they aren't going to get any of my money to do so. I encourage all the rest of you who are similarly disgusted to do the same. In my experience, customer complaints by big companies like this are taken quite seriously, and a bunch of us writing in may (hopefully) cause Lindt, and all the rest of the companies sponsoring Scott and Tessa, to drop them like hot potatoes.
I may not agree with some things VM are doing but I don't want them to lose sponsors because they give them the opportunity to finance their brilliant skating. And that's something I don't want to lose.
DeleteIf you want to boycott every company involved with questionable celebs you might as well become a hermit far away from civilization.
The sham might be annoying but it's far from being a criminal offense.
And Lindt chocolate is freaking delicious, I'll be damned before I'll give this up.
"If you want to boycott every company involved with questionable celebs you might as well become a hermit far away from civilization.
DeleteThe sham might be annoying but it's far from being a criminal offense."
^^^ This
exactly, 1:24 i dont think 5:18 even is a fan of tessa and scott. in fact, their comment comes across as absolutely trollish
Deletei wonder if they'll even boycott kellogs or whatever considering kellogs supports a bunch of cheaters.
The true criminal offense is D/W being "awarded" gold in Sochi. The outcome of an athletic event was pre-determined years ago. Surely that's not in the Olympic charter.
DeleteThere are legitimate reasons to boycott Lindt products but the company sponsoring VM is not one of them. That, of all their business practices, them being a sponsor for VM is what prompts you to boycott their products is disgusting and privileged. I hope you're a troll.
DeleteI'm not 5:18 but people are entitled to their opinions as to what they want to boycott. It's not "disgusting and privileged" to feel that way.
DeleteLindt is in fact sponsoring a team that aggressively lies to the public. If that offends someone why is it trollish. For myself, for example, I'll probably still buy Lindt chocolate but I don't want anything to do with the W Network because of their endorsement of VM's lies. Everyone has their own thresholds. (Shrug).
What's disgusting is being called a troll because of honest convictions.
I didn't say boycotting Lindt is the privileged or disgusting. I do think it's ridiculous that it's not the child labor concerns or any of the others problems that arise from cocoa production that has prompted this ire. Nope, it's Lindt's support for VM and their lies.
DeleteAnd I do think it's trollish to encourage writing in to their sponsors to get them to drop their support for VM.
really though if a company supporting V/M is what makes you boycott it and not stuff like child labour concerns such as what 12:13 said and the crap that comes with cocoa production (i.e. the racism and capitalist crap) then you really need to check your priorities.
DeleteThere really isn't any way to "pressure" either VM or the people around them into taking some action that will punish them in some way. Just let it play out.
Delete12:46PM - http://www.lindt.com/swf/eng/company/social-responsibility/lindts-sustainable-cocoa-supply-chain/
Delete"Lindt strongly condemns child labor and remains committed to eradicating it from cocoa production. For years, we have taken steps toward preventing the use of trafficking, forced labour, and the worst forms of child labour on farms from which we source. For example, we only source West African cocoa beans from Ghana, a nation where we have implemented a program to ensure 100% traceability. This means we know the farmers we do business with as well as the communities where their farms are located.
Lindt pays a price premium on cocoa it purchases in Ghana. That premium enables “Source Trust,” a not-for-profit organisation we partner with, to fund programs that improve the livelihoods and communities of the farmers from whom we buy.
The leadership role we have taken in identifying the specific communities that supply Lindt now opens the door to new opportunities, such as independent verification of the farms, to address trafficking and labour concerns."
There's more.
cool! more reason to buy lindt other than they support tessa and scott and make good chocolates!
Delete"12:46PM - http://www.lindt.com/swf/eng/company/social-responsibility/lindts-sustainable-cocoa-supply-chain/"
DeleteThanks for posting OC. Some people need to check themselves before mouthing off about "priorities."
^ um i think people were talking about cocoa production in GENERAL.
DeleteSo apparently Tessa is at Riverfest tonight where Blue Rodeo is the headliner... isn't Scott friends with one of those guys?
ReplyDeleteI don't think so but he's a fan.
DeleteAll I know is that Tessa has gone with Scott to see Blue Rodeo before.
DeleteI thought there was some talk somewhere/sometime about him getting to know Jim in Vancouver? Can't recall where, it's been awhile. But I know Scott has mentioned them before, and I thought the two of them had gone together to see them as well.
DeleteGoing off topic here - it appears that Andrew Poje just inked himself with a huge Canadian Olympic tattoo on his chest...we know that Eric Radford and Dylan Moscovitch had tattoos done earlier in the spring....can I just say - Scott don't ever do it...just my two cents...if you get inked do it for something more personal...
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean?
Delete^LOL
Deletehonestly those big ass olympic tattoos are tacky
"honestly those big ass olympic tattoos are tacky"
DeleteI agree. Yuck.
In 2009 the Canadian skating team did some media around, I believe, Canadians. The video showed team members in video interview stations around different parts of the space. Bryce and Jessica interviewed about their Olympic tattoos. Asked if it hurt I think Jessica and Bryce compared it to falls on the ice or something. The next clip, the interviewer had obviously mentioned Bryce and Jessica's tattoos (or said something like "Some skaters/teammates") and Tessa immediately said oh no no no no, Scott saying the same thing, adding "My mama wouldn't like it."
ReplyDeleteWell, the entire production is just a gig - it's got DWTs pros in it, Tanith and Ben, Anissina & Peizerat, the Kerrs, etc. It's a credential, it's money, it helps the ITNY broaden its appeal, and it creates relationships.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how much this would appeal to Scott and Tessa. A lot of the ITNY are conceptual pieces, abstract, and they haven't shown much interest in that sort of program for themselves. As part of a group number, sure.
I also don't know how much this would appeal to VM. Their biggest interest seem to be pushing what can physically be accomplished on the ice in terms of combining dance vocabulary and skating and the highest level. VM seem to go for that kind of technical challenge as opposed to theatrics.
ReplyDeleteIt's one of the reasons I think they may continue to compete or be interested in continuing to compete. The exhibition and show format doesn't seem to fit as well with their desire to challenge what we think is possible technically. The better fit for that challenge is competitive skating.
"It sucks because it is the complete opposite of the truth. I think they have huge ambitions. They're done with competitive skating, IMO, but I don't think they're done competing with Tessa and Scott. It's not enough to have a stolen gold medal - they want to be seen as the next TD. "
ReplyDeleteI do agree with this sentiment. I've also gotten the impression that stealing a gold medal from VM isn't enough and now they want to go for the legacy that TD have in this sport. I personally find TD to be overrated, but you cannot argue that legacy-wise, most see them as the most artistic, greatest team of all time. The way that DW stole the OGM in Sochi, they want to steal that greatest and most artistic team of all time designation. It's not a designation I'd give to TD, but TD are definitely far more deserving than DW who shouldn't have even been in Sochi, much less on top of the podium.
Oh, that's a good find.
ReplyDeleteOoo, I wonder if we'll be made to pay for that find / this discussion. Usually this kind of thing is followed by a sham reprisal. Let's see what happens this time....
ReplyDeletei don't understand why such respectable people and skaters such as d/l and a/p have decided to associate themselves with a bunch of cheaters i guess money is more important than the integrity of the sport
ReplyDeleteYou're right, 10:04 and that's so sad. Tessa's a lovely woman and Scott should be able to be proud of her and their family, instead he's stuck pretending to be the boyfriend of Kaitlyn Lawes, who seems to be in love with the sound of her own voice. The fans would love nothing more than to be able to celebrate with Tessa and Scott but instead they're left waiting, wondering what's going to happen next to slap them down.
ReplyDelete11:21. The entire skating community has stayed quiet about what went down with DW. I hate the way everyone (out there - not talking about fan message boards) acts as if DW's skating and their medals are all legitimate. How does anything change when those considered heavyweights (such as past great ice dance teams or commentators such as Tracy or Kurt) appear to agree with DW's wins? As far as I can see, nothing has been done, or is being done, to lay any groundwork for a change toward impartial and fair judging.
ReplyDeleteI have a hard time believing VM would want to come back as long as the same corrupt practices that screwed them over are in place.
10:00 AM - they don't care. If they want the excuse to one-up, they'll take it. If "we" don't give them one, they'll invent one, so it's the same thing in the end.
ReplyDeleteYeah, she's really looked like it in all the pics with that dress. In the other ones her chest is extra accentuated, and her hips look like they're widening out. Comfy dress though. I would wear it if I were pregnant.
ReplyDelete1:12 again, just to add, I'm not saying she looks fat by any means, as some may try to imply (not on here) and is still sporting that beautiful pregnancy glow.
ReplyDelete"i don't understand why such respectable people and skaters such as d/l..."
ReplyDeleteand
"...such as past great ice dance teams or commentators such as Tracy or Kurt) appear to agree with DW's wins?"
I know that VM do much to shoot themselves in the foot, both personally and professionally, but it still surprises me when close friends, as those mentioned above, associate themselves/support DW and what they're doing.
Maybe they think this show is a good opportunity to promote ice dance? D/W winning the Olympics gives ice dance more exposure in a large influential market which I'm sure is one reason for their inflated marks.
ReplyDeleteI know it's fun to hate D/W but they might be nice people and it's the judges who give the marks, not the skaters. Plus there's a good chance these people have a higher opinion of D/W's skating than most V/M fans on here, even if they don't necessarily agree with their win.
People don't "hate DW" for amusement. People hate that they were given a gold medal they didn't earn on the ice, over a team that blew them out of the arena. There is no way anybody who has the first clue about figure skating, let alone the people mentioned, have a "higher opinion" of DW's skating. They know it's bogus. It's secondary to business. They share management, they want to market skating (although it seems to me they've got it backwards and should first make sure the product is good, THEN market it, but a lot of people think the marketing/narrative is all that counts), this is all about money/jobs/branding.
ReplyDeleteI see his point but he's picking low hanging fruit. Stop looking at the judges and move on up the hierarchy til you get to Dore - and ex-Federation presidents, and Fed directors/officials who cut deals. When figure skating corruption is portrayed as a bunch of judges swapping deals or not getting it, it lets the ISU corruption off the hook. It comes off as if these judges are rogue and the ISU has its hands full in some sort of whack-a-mole way, trying to stomp out the shady behavior of these judges.
ReplyDeleteThe shady behavior is at the top.
To his credit he did say it's all about the big federations, and he even mentioned Japan (not in the sense of them being cheaters but in the sense that if Japanese skating ceased to exist tomorrow that would have a huge effect whereas if the Czech federation disappeared, it wouldn't). It looked like he was being baited into "Russians," but he applied it to all major federations.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely something to keep in mind for all of those who like to say "oh, but the USFS is notoriously bad at politiking!" Its very existence as one of the Big Three feds gives it a lot of power, and it clearly put its power behind ice dance for this past quad or two.
Not sure why you felt the need to delete my question but whatever, it's your blog. I'm not trying to troll or anything, I just don't understand how anyone can say "there's no way X would think that" because we can't possibly know. There are lots of people who think VM couldn't possibly be hiding a marriage + baby and guess what? they're wrong.
ReplyDeleteI sometimes wonder how big of an asshole Scott actually is. He's nice enough in person but if he really doesn't want to participate in social media, why bother to create an account? His lack of engagement or ANYTHING on Facebook was bad enough but this Twitter thing is just mean. I get that he's probably a busy guy what with his fake girlfriends and new nephew and all but somehow Tessa manages to find time to tweet and generally be adorable.
ReplyDeleteAnon at 7:53 pm - by your reasoning then Kevin Reynolds is just as big an asshole as Scott. If I had to guess out of all the skaters on the Canadian Olympic Team - Kevin Reynolds is probably the nicest and sincerest skater. Not everyone who starts a twitter account will be tweeting on a daily basis. And not everyone on the planet believes that Facebook, twitter, tumblr etc is great. Yes I agree that used effectively, these outlets can built a solid pr but I don't think we should be naive enough to think that just because someone tweets etc that they are genuine. I think its obvious that Tessa is using her twitter account for branding purposes and to keep her name out there. I mean she literally has followed the majority of the Canadian Olympic team. If you didn't know any better - you think that she was running for class president - which is fine. Scott on the other hand seems content to play second fiddle and not be in the spotlight. Sometimes less is more....just my two cents...
Delete7:53 PM How do you know Scott has new nephew? Who is daddy?
DeleteOne of Scott's brothers received congratulations for a new baby on FB. I don't remember which brother.
DeleteI agree that Scott isn't necessarily an asshole just because he doesn't post on social media much. There's no obligation to do it at all. He signed up, posted his ALS challenge, and stopped. Twitter exists as a platform and he can use it however he wants. Now, the Facebook thing, the way it's been described by OC and others, might have been assy behavior. I wasn't following then so I don't know how it went down firsthand. With twitter, he's been one of the only skaters who doesn't have it, so no one's expectations should have been that high, he clearly wasn't the type to get on there every day.
Scott isn't an asshole because he doesn't post on social media much, he's an asshole because of how he's used social media, and IMO we're not obligated to compartmentalize and consider his twitter apart from how he used his facebook. It's all used as the same thing - manipulation and sham. It's very characteristic of Scott Moir to arrive on social media in a big way and then do a disappearing act. Furthermore, it's a little shady for him to be so elusive on his own social media accounts while backdooring bullshit through the social media accounts of other people, such as his fake gf and those helping the sham. He knows they're doing it, he helps set it up, he cooperates, but he won't stand up and put his own ass on the line. Unlike, for example, Tessa. Tessa may be working it on twitter, but at least she gets out there and does it herself (or whoever posts on her account does it for her). Once she went on twitter, she decided to nut up. She doesn't have someone else post an image of her in a bikini or bare midriff; she doesn't have someone else drop a tweet about how Tessa was so happy to get back to the gym after stuffing herself with pastries and wine for a month. She does it herself. Yes, there's back door stuff too, but at least when she got on twitter, she stayed there. Scott is all about the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Everybody else does it for him while his hands stay "clean".
DeleteFurthermore, Tessa said she was just his "opening act". That is also typical. While on facebook, Scott would periodically come on and make a lot of noise, get people excited, make promises, and then disappear without following through. He swept in once, responding to questions with big explanation points, including saying the webpage was going to be revamped "soon" (try "never").
When he had his personal facebook, his account and Jessia's swept in literally hundreds of fans a week after the Olympics. The purpose was sham (so friends of friends could see sham drops on his mom's facebook, other friends, and Jessica's). However, we're not supposed to know it's for sham reasons, so why is this guy taking in hundreds of fans until he maxes out his friends list if he doesn't want to deal with fans?
Fans would wish him happy birthday. He never acknowledged them. Usually skaters (including Jessica) would do one all purpose thanks - thanks for all the birthday wishes! Scott ignored it. Scott ignored the fans congratulating him on the Olympics. He would, however, show up from time to time to 'taime Jessica on her facebook wall, to tell fans not to befriend a fake Tessa Virtue on facebook ("So not cool" to be friends with a facebook fake, said Scott, one of the most hair-raisingly oblivious things the man has ever done on social media, and that's saying something)
cont'd
As the blog as mentioned before, Scott was hardly ever on either his personal facebook or his fan page facebook, so when, one day, he shows up and requests suggestions for a profile pic on his fan page, the blog described how fans responded, and how mean it was that this turned out to be a trick. The man can't extend himself at all, not to say thank you (for happy birthdays or a congratulations), but he can show up to play a trick that makes fools of fans who thought he meant it when he asked their opinion.
DeleteThe other thing he handled very poorly was when he decided to restrict his "personal" facebook. He should have just restricted it and opened a fan page without making a big deal. But he had to make a big deal. This is what he does. He announced that he was "shutting down" his "personal" facebook because he'd maxed out his friends and didn't want to leave anyone out. So he was starting a fan page, and he left a link. Remember that Scott never participated in either one of these facebooks, so why the big to do?
Of course, he didn't "shut down" his personal facebook. He proceeded to do exactly what he said he didn't want to do - leave people out. This painful process (for his fans who took him at face value) occurred in public over more than a week. He restricted his personal facebook; didn't shut it down as he said was going to do. He began deleting fan/friends but keeping others. These fans talked to each other, leading to exchanges like: "Were you deleted? I was." "Nope, still there. I guess he trusts me."
As the blog said at the time, that was like somebody pretending to cancel a party he was having for the neighborhood, but turns out he didn't cancel the party, he just didn't want you to come, AND you could see the cars parked in the driveway, hear the music and the laughter.
All the rejectees went over to his fan page where they were ignored except for when he wanted to set them up. Meantime, the fans that remained on his personal facebook, which, as I said, he did NOT shut down, kept telling the rejected fans the dish/dirt that was on his "personal" facebook (sham shit and sham photos). That type of game.
If you want someone to hurt people's feelings unnecessarily on social media, Scott Moir is your guy.
I don't know what his deal is with being hit and run on social media, but it's not integrity and it can't be "social media isn't for me" because he certainly participates very heavily in social media via the sham. He had a big image presence on instagram while shamming with Cassandra.
I think Scott Moir, all the issues aside, probably IS a nice guy one on one, or in his in-person interaction. But on social media, he goes out of his way to make fans feel terrible. I don't know if it's intentional, or if he's just outsmarting himself and it comes out that way, but it's been going on for years. I think because he seems like an extroverted, fun, friendly guy, fans don't know what's going on when he acts this way on social media; it feels odder to them, and more on purpose (kind of an "was it something we said?") than if he were more reserved. Of course it's all about the sham, and whatever the hell he thinks he's doing with the sham, but he does it very very poorly and hurts people's (fans) feelings.
I think the bottom line is there is no good or right way to fuck with people on social media, lie, exploit and manipulate them. Getting up and smiling in people's faces, engaging, etc. as Tessa has been doing, is wrong because she's manipulating people and she's lying.
DeleteDoing it as Scott does it - dragged on because he "has to" for whatever reason (Lindt, the ice bucket challenge, whatever) and then refusing to keep it up, but somehow having all the availability in the world to manipulate, lie and exploit fans via OTHER people's social media accounts, is also bad.
There's no good way to do it if the agenda is to aggressively work over your fans.
Thank you, OC, that does pretty much sum up Scott's history with social media. What really grated me on the Facebook, aside from the profile picture thing, was his refusal to even issue a simple "thank you!" for the birthday wishes. It's obvious that he has no intention of participating, so why bother even creating a Twitter? His ALS challenge response could have been posted by Kaitlyn Lawes or hell, even Tessa.
DeleteTessa might be putting forward a fake personality on Twitter but at least she's on there. She's sharing photos, comments and even responding to a few fan tweets. It makes people feel good and it doesn't take her a lot of time. Scott's just being a dick.
It was Scott's brother Charlie who has the new baby. There's congrats posted on his wall.
4:29 AM I don't see congratulations on Charlie's FB and Danny doesn't have FB at all. So what are you talking about?
Delete10:00, there are some people who happen to have mutual facebook friends and so are able to see some of the messages on Charlie's fb page.
Delete8:47 - not only was Scott's "Don't be friends with a fake Tessa Virtue" one of the most drop-dead social media moments in figure skating history, it was matched, in legit media, by his insisting that the reality show was a "documentary." I thought that was him just going for the gold medal in lying, but it turns out he wanted to distinguish his show from something like the Kardashians. IOW, he thought "Tessa and Scott" was BETTER than the Kardashians. Unbelieveable. It's the exact opposite.
Delete10:24 AM do you know where Danny lives now? still in Denmark or back in Canada?
DeleteI believe Danny and his family are in Calgary.
DeleteI want to point out that nobody made Scott get on facebook or get on twitter. Nobody made Scott add tons and tons of fans every week after the Olympics. Well, we sure didn't. Fans can be a little needy/oppressive at times, creating pretexts for interaction, encouraging engagement, but "Congratulations on winning gold!" and "Happy birthday" do not qualify. Most figure skaters had/have facebook, they all got a conga line of happy birthdays on their facebooks; at the end of the day or the next day the skater would say "Thanks everyone for the happy birthday wishes!" without then being obligated to show up every single day.
DeleteScott did say thank you on his facebook. Once. Turned out to be a heads up for another sham photo op.
11:34 AM I thought it's Charlie who lives in Calgary. According to June 4th, 2014 by C. Maynard "Currently, her son Danny and niece Leanne have been assisting Alma in her coaching efforts at Western."
DeleteCharlie definitely lives in London and Danny has definitely lived in Calgary. Maybe he and his family have moved back home?
DeleteThere's an possibly apocryphal legend about showman/big top impressario P.T. Barnum. He owned the 1800s museum "The American Museum", showcasing a lot of exotic, strange and educational attractions. When he felt visitors were taking too long at the exhibits, he had signs posted: "This way to the Egress." Most people didn't know Egress was latin for "exit", thought it was a sign to the next exciting exhibit, and found themselves on the sidewalk. That's how Scott (and Laurie Mackey, when she'd pitch in) treated Scott and Tessa's web page. Oh, go to the web page - here's a link. In the meantime, check out our webpage!
DeleteAnyone who checked out the web page could find the competition schedule from the year before, except for when they apparently forgot to renew the domain for awhile and you'd get a domain-for-sale page. Then they put it back online, and started something called "Picture of the month" for the web page's cover photo. How many pictures of the month were there in a year? A total of three? Remember, this is not Scott sitting at his laptop stuck choosing and uploading a photo. They have people. They have friends. But nothing. Didn't stop them from saying - go to our web page and don't let the cobwebs get caught in your hair.
The web page redirect was an egress. The please go to this link (My Facebook Fan Page!) was an egress. We get it. We got it. But whenever fans do move on to other subjects, Scott and Tessa start clamoring for their attention, such as jumping on twitter. It's the damndest thing! Hey look - we're on twitter! Scott's coming to twitter too! Hey, why are you all hanging around Scott's twitter, bugging him to post more! Don't you know he has better things to do? That's how it comes off, when people make the mistake of believing that since he and Tessa made the effort to publicize their appearance on twitter, to draw attention to themselves on twitter, that they might want to be on twitter. Nope, stupid fans. You're bugging them, can't you see that?
That's how they roll. That's asshole.
11:59 AM WTF Danny was doing in Calgary? Charlie is fireman and who is Danny?
DeleteDanny is Scott's oldest brother. He and has wife, also named Tessa, and their daughter, Charlotte, have at least lived in Calgary recently if they're not still there. Charlie is the middle brother and is a firefighter. I think Danny is a firefighter too.
Delete12:46 PM I don't think so. Danny was coach in Denmark and he assists Alma now. I don't know how he can be firefighter too.
DeleteIt's funny that OC has no information about brothers. How may you know about secret things like pregnancy and don't know about simple things?
DeleteDanny may have coached in Denmark a while ago but I'm fairly certain he's done with that now and has been for some time. He married Tessa, they have a daughter and going by information from his Movember page, he was or is a firefighter in Calgary. http://ca.movember.com/mospace/1111826
Delete1:03, you must have missed the fact its not OC who has entered all these recent comments about Scott's brothers.
DeleteI'm just a fan and I happen to be informed about them. It's ludicrous to think blogger doesn't know at least the many known facts that are in the public domain.
I have no idea what OC knows or doesn't know apart from the public domain. But if you're trying to discredit him/her you better find something else.
1:13 PM I just wanna know info about brothers and I don't understand why OC keeps silence. I'm tired about all that pregnancy stuff. We all read this million times and I guess everybody here belives in this. But nothing new since then. I'm interesting in something new cause it's boring. Pregnant pregnant pregnant. OK. We know.
DeleteThe info about Scott's brothers is all public domain, as someone else. Look it up yourself. I'm much more interested in Tessa's suspected pregnancy and things affecting her and Scott than anything to do with his brothers.
Delete1:41 PM Oh darling what is that interesting? Slim and flat or fat stuff? I don't care I can see her belly without this blog. OC don't wanna tell us if she has inside confirmation about 2nd pregnancy. She had 1st time but now keeps silence. So where is nothing interesting. Reading reading readning. And nothing. Sad.
Delete1:41 PM Is info about his father and uncles all public domain?
Delete@1:26, first of all this blog is about way more than Tessa's pregnancies... Yes, part of the premise is that she was pregnant in 2010, and looks very similar now. But if you read/have read the blog, you would see that that is not even the majority of discussion here. Since this blog is about Scott and Tessa (and their daughter), then it's going to be mostly about them. Other people, such as other family members, friends and sham s.o.'s may come into the discussion on occasion, as it pertains to the current subject matter, but their personal facts and daily lives are most likely not going to be included, since it's not about them. If you want to know other info on them so bad, then look it up/find it for yourself, as the majority of the people on this blog have done or suggested you to do.
Delete"1:13 PM I just wanna know info about brothers and I don't understand why OC keeps silence. I'm tired about all that pregnancy stuff. We all read this million times and I guess everybody here belives in this. But nothing new since then. I'm interesting in something new cause it's boring. Pregnant pregnant pregnant. OK. We know."
DeleteSo why not find a different blog that talks about the brothers? Dumbass.
3:04 PM All that you can find on web about Joe I already know. I'm interesing in what OC know without web. And I'm waiting for her answer, not yours. But if OC doesn't know anything about Moirs except they keeping secret baby Tessott then it's very very sad. Then there's nothing new on this blog. Then OC doesn't have INSIDE info ANYMORE.
DeleteI don't think OC has had any new info in a long time, probably since she started the blog. But this is the Internet, nobody should believe anything someone says just because they claim to have inside info. Try using your own powers of observation and deduction and come to your own conclusions, it really isn't hard to figure out that Tessa's pregnant right now, for example.
DeleteIs the father this time the same one as in 2010? Because Tessa was most definitely pregnant in 2010 as well.
DeleteYou're certainly free to believe Scott isn't the father but then why has he had a succession of fake girlfriends? You can see the fake from space, they've gotten a little better at shamming now than when they first started but it really is obvious. There's a lot of other elements that have led me to be 100% sure they're a couple, even if I have a hard time understanding why and how they do things sometimes. It's beyond bizarre, stranger than fiction, but then life is sometimes like that.
Why did my comment get deleted? I'm not a troll and there's nothing wrong with saying you believe that Scott Moir might be gay. It certainly would explain the fake girlfriends.
DeleteTessa, I believe, has been in a relationship she has kept quiet for many years. I don't think it's Semple, or Pelletier and it's definitely not Scott. She had a child with his man, and she's most likely pregnant again.
8:51 AM - the comments section of the blog may not be used for your or anybody else's theories. The blog is based upon facts I know - that Scott and Tessa are married and have a child. I know this, and am not going to let the comments section be used to speculate alternatives that I know are false. Read that again if you have comprehension issues - I'm not letting it be used to speculate alternatives *I* know are false. The fact that you don't have proof of your own doesn't change that *I* do.
DeleteI have said this before, but I'll assume that you, as with many people who visit here, don't bother to read the blog or read what I've said about comments section guidelines before participating in the comments section.
There's plenty of speculation/theories on the blog, but all within the framework of the facts that Scott and Tessa are married and have a child. I'm not going to pretend I don't know that they're married with a child.
If someone doesn't believe the blog, that's their business, but not my problem. They're always free to participate in other discussions here, such as discussions about the skating, politics, etc. But no, don't put your own fan fic up here, because I know better and am not about to pretend I don't. Don't come back with this.
This is OT, but I've been thinking about the two people who saw Kaitlyn Lawes, Scott Moir and his parents out to dinner, and how easy it is for them not to even be there. One of the Moir party just sends out the photo to the person(s) designated to report the "sighting" and they can do it from wherever they are.
ReplyDeleteThere's no way because we'd have to think that what DW do on the ice isn't visible, or is concealed cleverly enough that people who skate themselves, who have trained, who have watched it for years, could actually have an "opinion" that DW are legit. That is not possible. These people know the sport. This came up in another comments section not long ago, and somebody else answered it far more incisively and in-depth than I can. The people in skating KNOW what skating is. It is simply not possible to look at Davis and White's skating and believe it is legitimate. It's not "hard to see." It's not concealed. It doesn't take study. It is right out there, as right out there as knowing the difference between out of bounds and in bounds, between a ball slamming into the net and going over it. I think the suggestion that other skaters might actually believe Davis White are legit wrongly promotes the idea that skating is some kind of arcane sport where good and bad is difficult to perceive. The problems with Davis and White's skating are fundamental. It's not a matter of weighing values. Skating is knowable. It's observable.
ReplyDeleteLet me put it this way - there is no way anybody who knows skating - and that certainly includes the skaters mentioned who are working with Davis White - can think Davis White are better than they are, if they've actually watched Davis White skate even once. No way.
Just as there's no way anybody on DWTs - any of the pros - didn't know the problems with Meryl's so-called dancing. And that includes both Chmerkovskiys. What, they thought she could carry her weight - she fooled them? They thought she had rhythm - managed to trick them? They missed that her feet were wooden - thought she was working through her feet and transferring weight?
Again, the evidence is on the ice. If you know skating, and you look at Davis and White on the ice, there is no way the two things match. "I know skating, and I think Davis and White are better than they are." Then you don't know skating. These people know skating.
They are all trying to make the most of their career. They all want to earn money inside skating, not outside skating. A lot of these people share the same representation. Their representation puts these events/shows, etc. together. You don't want to muck it up by calling out another client/talent. That could jeopardize your own opportunities.
Look at some of the extra work the DWTs pros got after working with DW. They're in the Disson shows.
^so my essential point is this:
ReplyDeleteThere is no way anybody who knows figure skating can believe that Davis White are better than they are - if they've seen Davis White skate.
If they DO believe that (and as you say, we can't read minds), then they don't know figure skating. I find that hard to believe of Browning, Anassini/Peizerat and D/L, but I suppose, as you say, anything is possible. However, nobody who does know figure skating can believe that, because it's not on the ice, and I don't believe these people routinely hallucinate, or think "skating" isn't "skating."
Does anyone actually know if Tessa is pregnant or has she just weirdly gained a lot of weight in her chest and midsection.
ReplyDeleteWhat weight gain in her chest and midsection? She's perfectly slim and flat.
DeleteOC 8:21
DeleteWell, it is a fact KLawes was in Ilderton that weekend. There are photos of her with Scott at a local hockey game. Either scenario is totally plausible--out to dinner or just faked. It's not like the Moir parents have any ethical issues being out and about with the fake gf's. They've always been enthusiastic sham participants.
^I'm not suggesting Lawes wasn't with the Moirs at dinner, but that the people who tweeted didn't have to be at the restaurant.
DeleteApparently, Jen Swann is choreographing A/E's carmen SD i can't wait to see them fail so hard at emulating V/M. I can just picture the assnetwork getting some dwts pro who knows zilch about figure skating to say shit like "A/E's carmen is much more complex than V/M's". we don't need another American team piggybacking on V/M's successes.
ReplyDeleteWhere did you see that? It seems weird that she'd choreograph a program to the same music as V/M's masterpiece only two years later.
Deleteapparently daniel eaton's mom posted on golden skate that they're working with jen swann.
Deleteit is totally weird. and probably marina's doing.
You're kidding 6:18. Marina put a gun to Swann's head? It sounds like both of these strong women are making shrewd business decisions. It's not evil. And if VM are as superb as we keep saying they are there's nothing to fear for their own legacy.
DeleteMy concern lies not with specifically who and who is not choreographing for AE but that there seems to be a sudden push for them that's like the push that was used for DW.
DeleteThe USFSA has what could be an outstanding trio, the best it's ever had on the ice, this upcoming quad in HubbellDonohue, The Shibutanis, and HawayekBaker. Instead, we already know that they're pushing CB and now they seem to be pushing AE, so we're going to have a situation where the three teams that should be going to 4CC and Worlds and winning things are competing with each other for third spot on the US team, all of them behind two teams that are inferior in every way.
Programs/music are vehicles. The skating is what's important. Carmen was as big a warhorse as exists in figure skating, and Virtue Moir transformed it. There is no way A&E are going to "rip off" Virtue and Moir, because what set Carmen apart was the skating. The choreography was important because they skated every inch of it, in a very specific choreographic style (carrying the center of gravity differently/lower). If they'd put a sort of modern pastiche over the Carmen music it would have looked a bit fresher than the usual Carmens but been nothing special. There is no way A&E can skate a VM skate, and if they can (which they can't) more power to them.
DeleteIMO if more fans would really study the skating they wouldn't become so fixated on music and theme, or expect programs/music to be retired like some athlete's jersey. When Marina Zoueva gave Mahler to VM there were Katia fans who were upset because that was the Celebration of a Life music. Nothing Virtue Moir's Mahler did diminished or diluted Gordeeva's Mahler or why she skated it. When Gordeeva used Vocalize for an ice show with a celebrity partner, fans were upset because that was a special program with her late husband, but what made that program special was she was skating it with her late husband. It's just a program without him.
The special part is the skating, and, in the case of partners, the person with whom you skated. Not the music, not the choreography. It's the skating. There's a choreographic vocabulary and a skating vocabulary that, however broad, is going to repeat. Music is going to be recycled. Ideas are going to be re-used. It's no different, IMO, than classical repertory theatre. Nobody gets mad when Actor A does Hamlet because Actor C was so spectacular/beloved in the role in a previous season. Nobody gets mad when the same operas are performed by different singers. Ballet, the same.
Carmen is a story that many people can connect with, the music is dramatic and accessible. Nobody can skate it as Virtue and Moir does, nobody is going to turn it into a stunning, tour de force skating skills showcase as they did, but if a team wants to explore modern movement Carmen's got a clear psychological foundation to it that, anchors the movement and helps the body understand it, and can help the skaters phrase it.
7:18 again.
DeleteThis is the golden skate post that was referred to above: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?51113-2014-2015-Programs-by-Discipline&p=974139&viewfull=1#post974139
I'm not sure why the long essay on Daniel's Canadian roots was needed. Their nationality is not relevant.
Next we have this: https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/504029294939881472
WHY do you get AE to demonstrate key points when you have HD, The Shibs, and HB present?
7:00 PM why are marina fans so hostile?
DeleteHostile? Give me a break. Disagreeing with a super emotional "this is weird, I don't like it so I'm going to claim it's so and so's doing" argument is being hostile? Mmm kay.
Deletealso its not the music (IIRC A/E have chosen the music before they moved to marina? and then like marina made some changes?) thats the problem its the fact that swan is choreographing for them and i'll be damned if the usfsa doesn't use this opportunity to prop up d/w and their others skaters while bringing down v/m - basically killing two birds with one stone and try to contribute to the narrative that v/m were not robbed of a gold medal, that they are so passé, that v/m were on a downward spiral ever since 2010 and are not the same skaters etc. and marina has given them the opportunity to do so
Deletewhat made carmen and GGITS so special was swan's difficult choreography and lifts and elements. i have this feeling that people and ice network are going to be like "OH HAI LOOK EVEN A LOWER RANK TEAM SUCH AS A/E CAN DO SWANN'S DIFFICULT CHOREOGRAPHY, V/M AINT SHIT" etc. etc.
i dont understand why A/E are working with swan when swan is a contemporary/modern/ballet choreographer/damcer and the rhythms for this year's SD is paso. it makes no sense for her to be working on their SD unless she is trained in latin ballroom as well.
8:04 PM whining about "super emotional comments" in this thread is absolutely pointless especially when you have someone above threatening to boycott Lindt because of V/M.
DeleteSo really this has nothing to do with A/E or even Swan's work, it's all about your fears regarding V/M's legacy, 8:12 PM?
DeleteThe entire skating world can't sit around and go "we'd better not do this because it might be hurtful to V/M's legacy." That's not how it works. If that was the case, V/M would have never skated to Mahler's 5th since it was associated with Gordeeva.
The final battle of the V/M v. D/W narrative war was at the Olympics and V/M did not come out the winner in that showdown. It's OVER. I think people need to accept that. D/W aren't giving back their gold medals and nobody is going to make them do so. V/M's Carmen will always stand alone as a masterpiece. Swan choreographing a Carmen program for some less talented team isn't going to change that. Being insulted by every coach or team who is moving forward because you're still upset about what happened in Sochi on account of the sport's corruption isn't going to fix that corruption. It's systemic. The narrative issue is not the cause of that corruption, it's a symptom. Crying about every real or perceived narrative slight against V/M or their legacy is going to accomplish nothing. That's not where real change comes from.
That's a hell of a really bad strawman you've constructed, 8:16.
DeletePretty sure the Lindt boycott comment was from a troll.
DeleteNo, it's not a strawman, 9:15. It's a certainty. Whenever someone refutes an argument made about Marina, several of the fans who don't like her scream "you're being so hostile!" As though a refutation of an argument in and of itself is some sign of hostility. No it isn't.
DeleteAlso, don't rewrite someone else's post incorrectly. It said "many of the people who don't like Marina," not ALL of them.
maybe because it was hostile?
Deletemarina fans get as angry as d/w fans whenever someone mentions marina's faults
IMO theres to many people here who worship the grounds marina walks on and act like she is sacrosanct
Delete10:07pm, that's enough - considering the first comment made was out of thin air: "Something I don't like is happening - must be Marina's fault then."
Delete7:17 pm, if this is is indeed what's going on, it makes me queasy to think DW do indeed want to stay in. Keep down better teams. I really wonder what the Shibs' parents think of everything. They went from knocking on DW's door to 17 points behind.
DeleteMy thought wasn't that this had to do with DW wanting to stay and the two inferior teams being used as a spacer between DW and the three good teams, but that it was a pattern repeating with another team for the sake of that team. The push for CB began in the 12-13 season and continued last year. There's an icenetwork article that mostly talks about how CB are poised to be the US #1 team. The AE stuff is more recent, but is chilling and nauseating and how it seems to be following what happened with DW. Are some people thinking if a team like DW could be pushed past a team like VM that it's even easier to use the same game to push a team that's better than DW, if even marginally, over teams that are not as good as VM?
DeleteI think you're correct that what happened with VM and DW had to involve high ranking officials, Dore included. What I don't think happened is that Dore came up with the idea on his own. I think the push for DW originated elsewhere at some point lower down, was carried up the ranks to get the officials on board, and then propagated to a wider network that this was what was going to happen. I often think about what Katia Gordeeva said about she and Sergei's comeback in 1994 and being more worried about the officials in their own country. It turned out to be an unfounded worry on their part, but it makes you think about politics on a national level and getting the federation to push for a particular team.
I suppose all we can do is see how things play out with the US teams this year, but I feel very uneasy at this point.
I also wonder how The Shibs parents feel about all of this, or HD who had the attention of the USFSA their first year together, but despite improvements to their skating, seem to have been ignored since then. HB are newer to this game, but will they get the same treatment?
Watching this, I'm very grateful that SV are already free of USFSA politics thanks to their switch to Great Britain.
@9:55PM you've just described some of the most common forms of participation in the comments section. Re-write if not outright make up what either the blog as a whole, a particular post, or particular comments have said, run the re-write up the flag pole, play both sides of the discussion, declare oneself to have delivered the coup de gras, repeat.
DeleteYou are exactly correct as well, that refuting an argument isn't hostility, nor is criticism hating.
"I think you're correct that what happened with VM and DW had to involve high ranking officials, Dore included. What I don't think happened is that Dore came up with the idea on his own. I think the push for DW originated elsewhere at some point lower down, was carried up the ranks to get the officials on board, and then propagated to a wider network that this was what was going to happen. I often think about what Katia Gordeeva said about she and Sergei's comeback in 1994 and being more worried about the officials in their own country. It turned out to be an unfounded worry on their part, but it makes you think about politics on a national level and getting the federation to push for a particular team. "
DeleteYes, that makes sense. My position re Dore is that as the VP of the ISU and the highest ranking figure skating-knowledgeable official in the ISU, not to mention that he is Skate Canada through and through, there is no way the overscoring of DW followed by the point stripping of VM could have occurred as systematically as it did this past quad without his explicit approval. Deals were made, there is no question, and as you say, it's entirely possible that Skate Canada thinks it got the best of the deal. Benoit may have had his ascension in the ISU greased, SC might have gotten other considerations, either for other skaters, or something else. It's like a trade in baseball. We give you this star - in SC's case - we throw VM under the bus - and in return we get these three people, PLUS money, plus a draft pick, plus a bunch of other stuff.
^many people reassert that VM were scored fairly; it was DW who were overscored. That's true to an extent, except at home at Canadians, were they were unbelieveably lowballed, it's true where they didn't get levels and other skaters did (without deserving them) , and nobody could miss the pattern of waiting til the end of the season to tell VM that their highlight move had to change or be struck. Every freaking time, even in 2010-2011.
DeleteIt's so funny that in 2010 there was all the talk about how ice dance was now truly figure skating and truly dance, and some looking back at the ridiculousness of the 90's. It now appears that the ridiculousness of the 1990s is precisely what figure skating wants, CoP be damned.
DeleteI'm also curious to see how Gilles Poirier plays out against Paul Islam. Paul Islam made great strides last season and skate programs of greater complexity and difficulty than Gilles Poirier. Based on the inaugural outing of Gilles Poirier's 2014-2015 free dance, I thought that with a score in the 90s they were overscored. The twizzles were a mess, Paul, in particular, was sloppy, and they didn't skate together. Where that score came from I have no idea.
DeleteHere's a link about Jennifer Swan - she's got a comprehensive background in performance/movement - one might almost say holistic. She's trained physiotherapists and worked with Fowler Kennedy.
DeleteFrom what I recall of her background, she does skew modern, but she also synthesizes influences from other dance styles. It's perfectly possible that she is not going to do VM Carmen Lite for A/E, but incorporate different movement styles to their Carmen music.
Didn't actually paste the link: http://www.co-si.com/body-works-for-singers/
Delete4:53 AM - Just like how some of the comments here about V/M are pulled out of thin air. I thought this was the place for speculation anyway
DeleteGoing back to A/E...Daniel Eaton's mom is the only skating parent I can think of who publicly and agressively posts on a message board to promote and defend her kid's skating. It's very off-putting but it does have the benefit of almost eliminating criticism because people don't want to offend her and end up bending over backwards to apologize for ever having said something negative. In my case it makes me want to root against A/E, which is dumb, but really she needs to stop.
Delete^Reminds me a lot of Jacqui White
DeleteApparently, AE already had the Carmen program when they got to Canton. Marina said she kept the program, but changed the music, and based on the mom’s post it looks like Marina and Massimo did some heavy revising (maybe to the extent of what could be considered re-choreographing). The way that the mom describes their work with Swan and Burgess, it could be as simple as a one-off session on movement, arm placement, etc. As a dance teacher Swan could do this without being an expert in Latin ballroom.
DeleteThat doesn’t make Swan the “choreographer” anymore than Alex Wong choreographed ND or JMG choreographed “Seasons” (there’s a brief clip of him in their reality show working on some off-ice choreo from it with VM). I totally agree with OC that since AE are not the same sort of skaters as VM, it would be wholly impossible to recreate VM’s Carmen. Besides, nothing in VM’s Carmen would fit the paso doble rhythm. However, I also think 8:12 has a point that there could be an intent here to show that even a lower ranked team could perform “Swan’s Carmen choreography” and that it shows how much VM had slipped technically and how any number of young teams are as good as them. As we know from the DW debacle, it doesn’t matter what is true, what matters is the perception and what they could get people to believe. Attaching Swan’s name could be enough for icenetwork to sell it as equally difficult/innovative choreography, because it’s not like people pay attention to what happens on ice. Now, I don’t know if that’s really the intent, and if it is the intent, I don’t know if that idea originated with USFS, Marina, AE, their parents, etc. I do think it’s worth a raised eyebrow and something to keep an eye out for. The mother’s diatribe about Canadian roots is also out of the Meryl Davis playbook so again, there appears to be something there. I think some are dismissing the notion out of hand because one of the first posts mentioned “Marina,” and therefore Marina must be defended, but I’m not taking a Marina-centric view of this. I see another US dance team cribbing from DW as it pertains to co-opting VM and I definitely want to keep an eye out for that becoming a trend. I’ve already seen some photos of Hawayek/Baker that I gave a huge side-eye because they looked quite inspired by VM, and they are not a Marina team. Not sure who are going to be the true USFS chosen ones, but I’m interested to know if it’s USFS promoting this stuff or if it’s the skaters themselves.
As for 8:29’s comments about VM’s legacy, that’s not how I see it at all. I don’t think of VM as some retired team with a fossilized “legacy” to protect. I see them as Olympic eligible ice dancers who are members of the 2014-15 Canadian National team, receiving funding for their training, and haven’t ruled out 2015 Worlds. It’s not about protecting their legacy or being offended when people copy them. Some Russian ice dancers and Max Aaron had costumes similar to VM’s Carmen ones last year and I thought it was a nice homage. A lot of the younger teams try to take on VM music such as Umbrellas and a bunch of teams this season are doing Carmen. That’s all fine, but the fact that AE have used Swan (and probably just for name recognition, IMO) and are going on about Canadian roots definitely raises the red flag with me that the USFS is starting the same tactics for the new cycle, and it’s very frustrating. I don’t see it as remotely the same as VM skating to Mahler, which was a pro program in a different discipline (pairs/singles) and like 15 years older. I do understand why it was sacred to some GG/Katia fans, but there was never a systemic ploy by VM and their federation to undermine GG like icenetwork has done to VM. I’m hoping this is just a skating mom from hell going rogue and trying to get her baby the best choreographers money can buy to add to the bio.
Reading through that goldenskate article, I think this puts it succinctly:
Delete" My eyebrows would pop up next season as well if (hypothetically ) the tables were turned and not only were a DSC couple's SD music to come from the same Indian selections as Alex and Daniel's FD music, but also the same consultant(s) previously brought in through Alex and Daniel's personal connections were involved again. (I do remember that you told us that the doctor who treated Daniel's father was a catalyst for this program.)"
BTW, I always thought the doctor comment was really strange. His dad's doctor was Indian, so they did a Bollywood program, really? So if the doctor were Italian, Jewish, or Japanese they would have done the Tarantella, Hava Nagila, or Kitaro? I come from an area where there are a lot of Indian doctors, so it would never occur to me to say "wow, this guy is Indian, like Bollywood."
To me it comes off as a pre-made explanation of why their Bollywood Wasn't Intended to Copy DW Even Though it's Totally Where They Got the Idea.
If AE are anything like DW, we'll soon get the article that explains How They Connected to Swan and How it Has Nothing to Do with VM.
I agree with almost every word that 10:28 wrote. The red flag for me is that someone wanted the idea that Swan, who is known for her work on VM's Carmen, was also the choreographer for AE's Carmen. She's not a choreographer on the program, but they've put that association out there.
DeleteThe conversation started because people couldn't find any biography for AE or interview with them that cited Jennifer Swan as a choreographer for their SD. The only reference was the program list that is maintained by Doris on golden skate. When someone inquired again on the thread where the source of the information was, Doris claimed that she'd remembered it from an interview she couldn't find the link to, but that she'd take it out since it didn't seem to be acknowledge. The next post was Eaton's mother saying she perhaps used the wrong term for Swan when she used choreographer. That Doris claimed she'd read it and then Eaton's mom came in to give that reply raised a red flag. They wanted that idea out there, even though it's untrue, but why?
The essay on Eaton's Canadian roots is overcompensation. We know what overcompensation looks like from the ways VM have used it and from how DW used it in their PR leading up to Sochi. Overcompensation is used when there's something to hide or something that's not on the up-and-up.
"I see another US dance team cribbing from DW as it pertains to co-opting VM and I definitely want to keep an eye out for that becoming a trend. I’ve already seen some photos of Hawayek/Baker that I gave a huge side-eye because they looked quite inspired by VM, and they are not a Marina team. Not sure who are going to be the true USFS chosen ones, but I’m interested to know if it’s USFS promoting this stuff or if it’s the skaters themselves."
I feel the same way about AE using the DW playbook. I know this playbook too well to recognize it as anything else.
FWIW, I think I've also seen the photos of HB you're referring to, but I do not see them as trying to co-opt anything from VM and their skating is currently not the level we saw from VM when they entered the senior ranks in 2006. With HB, I'm actually concerned at the moment about the decision to skate senior this year.
10:35, I also expect that you are correct about what kind of articles to expect out of AE. They're using the DW playbook. The articles will follow the DW pattern.
10:28 AM exactly! its not the music that matters or what is done on the ice, its their association with both zoueva and swan that matters.
Deleteone thing i've learned from d/w's wins is that skating and dancing skills don't matter anymore. money and pr is more important. with the backing of their fed and the right PR team A/E can benefit so much merely from this association, even if they just worked on basics with swan.
speaking of H/B, i remember during junior worlds the USFSA twitter posted a photo of H/B doing the same curve lift as v/m's curve lift and one person commented something like "they do it better than V/M!" imo that raised some red flags because out of all the photos of H/B that is out there, the USFSA chose that one. it seems to me that the photo was deliberately chosen and i'll be shocked if the person who posted that comment isnt one of USFSA's lackeys.
Deletetbh the usfsa needs a new strategy because what worked with d/w aint going to work on their other skaters.
Wow that article on TSL is so blatant.
DeleteAnother thing I thought was interesting was when Tessa joined twitter and Hawayek wrote something like I wish I would skate as well as you one day. I don't know, it could be nothing and actually a very sweet compliment, but part of me wonders if it was fishing for "oh, you already are!" or at least hinting that HB plan a VM-like narrative for their career. I don't think they knew VM were using that curve lift, but USFS seemed to have taken advantage of the similarity once it was there.
Just food for thought. I could be way off. I just think a lot of us were blindsided by how bad things went for VM, and even to some extent the Shibs and BA, like one day they were suddenly dumped for DW and you never saw it coming, so I try to be aware of these things, perhaps hyper aware. Not like we can do anything about it even if it's intentional.
11:28, I think Jean Luc has aged out of juniors so there was not a choice to be made.
Delete3:27, I think it was more of the sweet compliment variety. I remember it as being more about how Tessa was a #goddess #inspiration. Kaitlin also made a post welcoming the two of them to instagram which might have mentioned how they wished to be half the skaters they were or something along those lines? To me it came across as some genuine hero worship. It's interesting because she has tweeted about Meryl in the past but never quite in those terms. She musn't be drinking enough USFSA kool-aid.
"Pretty sure the Lindt boycott comment was from a troll."
DeleteWTF? I posted it, and I'm no troll. Despite what some posters would like to believe, there's nothing trollish about boycotting a company because you aren't pleased with who it chooses to sponsor, and encouraging others who might feel similarly to do the same.
boycotting one of V/M's sponsors because VM are not doing what you want them to do is absolutely ridiculous, childish and demonstrates a complete disregard to V/M's skating and career. Hence why people think its trollish. Do you even care about VM's skating?
DeleteBoycotting Lindt isn't something I would do but I don't think it makes the person a troll. Companies collaborate with athletes/artists to enhance their corporate profile, presumably because people like and respect what the celeb does. I think VM's skating is a very worthy cause, but athletes have lost sponsorships over bad personal decisions before, if it's something that offends peoples' sensibilities. Writing to or boycotting the sponsor is a common tactic when someone disagrees with what the athlete is doing or accused of doing. By associating with Tessa and Scott, Lindt is trying to gain goodwill from their fans. They are implicitly accepting that the opposite may be true, that fans who are turned off by Tessa and Scott's behavior may choose not to purchase their products. That's a risk that they take. To me, the shamming behavior does not rise to the level that I feel warrants a boycott (and I want them to have sponsors for their skating because I want them to keep skating), but I can understand how someone could be so disgusted that they would want to use their purse strings to have their say.
Delete7:31, people boycott products for plenty of reasons besides criminality. Nobody has forced Scott and Tessa to hoax the public and manipulate and play games. If someone decides that's reason enough not to buy products from a company that sponsors them (because they believe the company is aware of the hoax) and to tell the company why, that is that person's prerogative. The company made its choice, Scott and Tessa made their choice, but a consumer can't make their own choice and tell the company why? Why do so many people not think these things are a two way street? A consumer is as entitled to express him or herself as some celebrity or company is entitled to tell the public how it is. Companies and celebrities instruct and direct us all the time. Companies and celebrities are always marketing stories to us. A consumer is entitled to say, okay, this is MY story, my point of view, and for that reason I'm not buying your product.
DeleteJesus. Somebody has to be a criminal before you think a consumer is entitled not to buy a product and tell the company why? Otherwise we have to buy it? Or if we don't buy it, keep our mouths shut?
BTW, I'm not a big chocolate consumer, and that includes chocolate milk, but I think your perspective is completely off base.
If a company wants to tell us what great role models someone is, and a consumer chooses to say, I don't think they're great role models considering this situation, and in fact, your participation in this situation means I'm going to get my chocolate somewhere else, that's the person's right. Speaking up it their right. The company isn't obligated to pay any attention at all.
Unbelievable to me how fans think Scott and Tessa need protection. If there exist two athletes more indifferent to public opinion I haven't heard of them.
"boycotting one of V/M's sponsors because VM are not doing what you want them to do is absolutely ridiculous, childish and demonstrates a complete disregard to V/M's skating and career. Hence why people think its trollish. Do you even care about VM's skating? "
DeleteFirst of all - who has forced V/M to perpetuate a hoax upon the public in the way they do it? Please explain why their particular tactics are necessary. That was V/M's own decision, a decision they've recommitted to time and time again, even when natural windows of opportunity to knock it off are there.
You act as if V/M have no agency in this. They have no choice but to hoax. Or hoaxing is essential to their career, their livelihood, their sponsorship.
Lastly, it's not about V/M not doing what someone wants them to do. It's about what V/M ARE doing, not what they're not doing. What they're doing is marketing a hoax to the public, and when the public attempts to have a conversation about something else, VM redirects the public's attention back to the hoax. It's about what they're DOING that directly involves/includes the public. The public has choices here.
YOU behave as if you think the public has an obligation to endorse the hoax and buy the chocolate. This has absolutely nothing to do with Virtue and Moir's skating, and it has nothing to do with poor them, they could lose sponsors (not a chance, btw). You also act as if V/M have no responsibility for the choices they've made.
If you look at costumes alone among some lower ranked teams, you can see VM's influence. It's been there for years. They're the top team, not DW, they're the team that other teams emulate.
DeleteI agree that the narrative is a horrible one, it's built into the system, and not about individual personalities. It's how the whole thing is currently set up and enabled. The corruption is a function/feature and set up to be that way.
Skating parents have always been a pain in the ass. Rachel Flatt's mom would get on fsu and get pissed off about Phil Hersch (he was not a fan of Flatt, said so, and thought she was slow and uninspiring. You know, the sort of technical critique of someone's skating that we expect from our sportswriters). Flatt's mom's retort was along the lines of "he's just jellus."
When a mom pops up and talks about Canadian roots, or mischaracterizes the contribution of someone like Swan, that is not the cause of the problem, that is the OUTCOME of the problem. That demonstrates that even the parents of high level skaters understand it's all about the story and not about the skating. Eaton's mom is no different. She's concerned about the package and the perception. If the sport were set up so skating counted, she'd focus on that. She's focusing on how she knows the sport operates. That's not her fault.
I want to get back to the whole "boycott" thing. First of all, I don't believe a couple of fans writing to Lindt or pb chocolate and saying - I know these people have been lying for years, hoaxing for years, and playing tricks for years, I know this is common knowledge among everyone behind the scenes, including their sponsors, and for that reason I'm not buying your product" is going to have impact.
DeleteBut is that what you, 7:06, think is going to happen? That if a few fans tell the sponsors they're not purchasing the product because of VM's marketing lies, the sponsor will actually drop VM? Really?
And suppose they did (which they will not). Whose fault would that be?
I do sort of think that some of this is "well, we're not supposed to know. It's okay to talk about it on the blog, but don't go telling the SPONSORS we know."
Please. The sponsors know. Just about everybody we see in an instagrammed image of VM also know. We haven't been given the proper permissions from the people lying to us - i.e., the skaters themselves and their enablers/facilitators? When did they get to be the boss of us, I'm curious.
And finally on skating parents - they sure seem to be a prickly bunch in general. Hyper sensitive. Underneath the smiles and rah rah a lot of them come off full of resentments and feeling victimized by unfairness and being hard done by, and absolutely unable to tolerate any criticism at all.
DeleteI wonder why they're all so paranoid.
Also, this stuff about "you'd boycott because of Scott and Tessa but not child labor!" is just ridiculous. And it's fake. The world isn't binary like that. There's no zero sum in the scale of values. Oh, if we give any energy to THIS, that's energy we're not spending on world hunger! It's just a fake out argument to get people off track, and intimidate them into shutting up.
DeleteOC I thought you CARED about V/M's skating why support such a disregard for V/M's skating?
Deleteif you don't like V/M actions, MOVE ON. Its obviously that the person does not give a shit about V/M's skating. Trying to manipulate people into boycotting by using /inflammatory comments and being an overall vindictive asshole is FUTILE and will not do anything other than hurt people. You aren't going to get what you want so stop being selfish.
More and more, it's obvious how ridiculous the narrative that "it's the Russians that cause corruption in figure skating!" is and always have been. Remember in Vancouver, the text and subtext was would that Russian ice dance team defeat the more worthy North American teams, as Russians always seem to do. The aboriginal od played right into that - look at this ridiculous program!
DeleteOh joy, now your skating counts! Even Meryl and Charlie did that one - it became about the skating, finally. Well if it did, Meryl and Charlie, you'd never have been on the podium, let alone the top spot.
Anyway, in true Orwellian double speak, what Vancouver really signaled was the launch of an unprecedented era of corruption in ice dance. Virtue and Moir were there to set the table for Davis White (even then the ISU was fucking with them - that year both the goose and the final twist lift in the od got the last minute ISU treatment).
9:12 - knock it off. I asked you some questions about your position; you haven't answered them. Since you've already made your point, either engage in the conversation or stop repeating yourself and ignoring the points that have been raised in response.
DeleteI LOVE how fans continue to believe they have some influence over Scott and Tessa's skating career. Whether it's don't be negative or we'll scare the poor skittish things out of the sport, or don't mention to their sponsors that you don't appreciate being manipulated and chain-jerked by a couple of liars.
7:18
ReplyDeleteYou may be right the USFSA is setting up to repeat the DW corruption with other undeserving teams. The music or choreography probably won't make a bit of difference if that's what their Fed decides to do. I agree it sucks for those three teams you mentioned.
I console myself with the thought that history wil vindicate VM's Carmen as well as all their body of work. Meanwhile, yeah...this sport is hopelessly corrupt.
7:18 again. I hate it for those three teams. I don't understand why the USFSA makes the political choices that it does.
Delete"I console myself with the thought that history will vindicate VM's Carmen as well as all their body of work. Meanwhile, yeah...this sport is hopelessly corrupt."
I have tried to console myself with this thought, but I'm not sure that history will ever vindicate VM. I think history is going to be more concerned with continuing to cover up the hustle that got DW an OGM over VM.
Figure skating is corrupt and ice dance is the best place to make deals. Everybody pretends nobody can tell what's going on out there, everybody pretends that only the protocols can tell us what went on out there, and everybody pretends that the rulebook is a bunch of suggestions or a handy guideline in case you can't make up your mind about scores based on your own, personal preferences.
DeleteWith regards A/E and promotion, also to note because of the team event at the Olympics - it gives an additional incentive for these back deals to happen. Its going to get crowded in US ice dancing between Chock/Bates, Hubbell/Donohue, the Shibs, A/E, Hawayek/Baker...and god knows if DW decide to come back - which really it wouldn't shock me because of the egos and cash flow - so let's see how things roll...but really I get the sense of deja vu...perhaps in a year or two we will see icenetwork take cheap shots at Weaver/Poje or Paul/Islam....
ReplyDeleteIt will be crowded, because out of the 6 teams (CB, HD, Chibs, AE, HB, and DW), there are 3 good teams on that list and 3 inferior teams. My guess is that the 3 inferior teams will crowd the 3 good teams out of the top 3 placements and thus trips to 4CC, worlds, and the Olympics.
Delete"perhaps in a year or two we will see icenetwork take cheap shots at Weaver/Poje or Paul/Islam...."
And, if VM also return, the cheap shots will continue with them.
I am concerned about what will happen with GP and PI in Canada, but PI did make the Olympics over GP and in some ways, I feel like their situation is a bit more malleable and optimistic than the good US trio.
GP had lost a lot of training time and the gap between the teams at nationals was huge. I think it's possible for PI to beat GP going forward but they're going to have to be three times better just to have a chance.
DeleteWhat concerns me about G/P versus P/I is the difference between how the teams were scored at Worlds.
DeleteI wonder if any junior and novice teams have ever been angry that DW ripped off so many of their elements and choreography.
Delete11:15 - we'll see icenetwork promote C/B and downgrade Shibs, H/D, P/I. Promote G&P as well. If DW stay in, the debased standard of ice dance will be normalized and genuine teams will be pushed down.
ReplyDelete