Something is rotten in the state of sochi
She says she should have written this a long time ago. Well, YES.
But here are excepts:
Virtue and Moir skated the performance of their lives, easy to see in Moir’s reaction when he did a joyful, spontaneous dance when they finished. When the marks came up, I knew it was over. They weren’t going to win this one. And of course, they were dinged in the Finnstep, receiving a level three, rather than four, although Tracy Wilson on NBC had said they were clean. Of course, they were called for making a mistake. They always are. It’s always something.
*****
And what about Davis and White’s levels in Sochi? They received level four for all of their elements, wrapped up in huge execution and component marks. It seems that every time they set foot on the ice, they set a world record – and they did again in the short dance.*****
And the Americans set a world record? During the team event, a television camera clearly caught Davis and White out of unison going into twizzles. But did those sharp-eyed callers catch it? Apparently not. Are skaters being judged by the same standards?
She also goes into DW more and asks if the Emporer is wearing new clothes, that the narrative has overpowered the judging. Well, DUH.
But who listens to fans?
Meantime, Lynn Rutherford at ice network is busy tweeting that past unfair scores justify yesterday's unfair scores, and scores can't possibly be unfair. If she has to diss the inventor of the Finn Step to make that point, she will:
I'd also like to know how come the fans aren't shown a close-up in slo mo of the supposed missed level?
come on!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stop-the-fix-scores-in-olympic-ice-dance/
Lynn Rutherford has sure shown her true colors during these Olympics. She's nothing more than a mouthpiece for the USFSA. Otoh, when you have respected commentators like Kurt Browning praising DW and completely incapable of explaining anything technical in ice dance it's not a mystery how the culture of corruption in the ISU continues without check or accountability.
ReplyDeleteShe's making no sense. She disparages Petri Kokko's qualifications to judge the Finnstep, and says he's not in skating, when not only is he still in skating, he coached teams in the Finnstep under the current rules.
DeleteThen she links to an article that "proves" the scoring was fine, because past protocol fishiness justifies current protocol fishiness.
I hate when legitimate questions are turned aside by dismissing the legitimacy of the question in the first place.
^ that was me, oc.
DeleteThere's no transparency in the judging. If a skater stumbles on a twizzle, we'll be shown that (although we're supposed to ignore DW's consistently out of synch twizzles), but we should see key points. I'm sorry, what's the rationale for not seeing those? YES, fans might have opinions about whether it was a correct call, but if this is sport, how is that different from a close-up of a line call in tennis, an out of bounds foot in a floor exercise, or a close-up of a clean catch in football?
DeleteThis entire controversy could be settled by showing us a close-up of the missed key point in VM's short dance that resulted in L4. It would help to compare and show that DW hit all of their key points.
For some reason an informed public is considered problematic.
Nice, Rutherford. She has to put someone down just because his comments are inconvenient to the DW grand narrative. And, what are *her* qualifications in ice dance again? Or even "journalism", if that's what she's claiming to peddle?
DeleteNone, she has none. She's also using a circular defense. The fact that VM have been denied L4 before justifies it now.
DeleteBeverly Smith is also talking about how the DW "narrative" has possibly swamped the judging. No shit, Smith.
DeleteToo little, too late.
ReplyDeleteAlso, watch most of the Canadian skating community NOT add their voices to Smith's criticisms. Between calling out the irregularities of the sport and covering the sport's asses, they will pragmatically go with the latter.
Well, Stoyko is questioning it, particularly the GOE and pcs. Of course, he knows nothing about dance, and since he's in the sport, he'll back away like Browning rather than rock the boat.
DeleteFrom Slipchuk: “'As an athlete, you know you did your job. You can’t control you what people give you on the other side — that’s always been our sport,' he said. 'And I would say the judging system at times works for you and at times works against you. You can be on both sides of the spectrum at different points in your career."
ReplyDeleteTHAT'S WHY ICE DANCE ISN'T A FUCKING SPORT, MIKE. It can't be a legitimate Olympic sport when the people running it say things like "well, sometimes the judging is fair and sometimes it isn't, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles!"
9:03. Exactly. If they want legitimacy they need to act legitimately. Stop saying these kinds of stupid statements about fairness and instead call for the judging to be open and make sure it includes investigation and examination as to the reasons for the scores.
DeleteIce-dance is so beautiful. It's heartbreaking to see this happening.
A missed key point is EASY to see. Show the wrong edge. Then show DW hitting all the right edges. Voila, no "controversy". How come that doesn't happen? Is ice dance afraid of fans where football, tennis, gymnastics, etc. are not?
DeleteIsn't it bizarre that everyone is tweeting and writing about the level in the Finnstep and yet it's impossible to just SHOW the Finnstep level that was missed?
DeleteThis is the new narrative. Back in 2010 it was finally a real sport. Now it's like - well this is our sport! Sometimes the judging fucks you over! What can you do! Just hope it swings back in your direction sometimes!
DeleteHe sort of goes - well WE benefited from Chanflation at Worlds, so it's okay if VM get screwed now. It's how the sport IS!
As railroaded a result as ever there was in figure skating.
DeleteI am so sick of hearing how M&C never put a foot wrong. Umm that's all that they do. I have yet to see a "perfect" or "clean skate by them.
ReplyDeleteI am happy that T&S actually had two perfect skates. And that those of us who the fix was In for the last couple of years.
Enjoy your dirty gold, Meryl & Charlie!
ReplyDeleteI can just hear the judges on the panel after yesterdays SD competition. "Okay people are getting suspicious with that low score on V/M's flawless short dance, tomorrow give V/M a really high score but make sure W/D's is a lot higher. (Remember to sneeze or something during the twizzles incase Charle drops his leg sooner than Meryl.)
ReplyDeleteHaha. This is what actually happened, though.
Delete"I'd also like to know how come the fans aren't shown a close-up in slo mo of the supposed missed level?"
ReplyDeleteCBC did! They went all super fancy and showed a few seconds of the Finnstep side by side in slow motion, just to prove that V/M deserved to lose that key point #3. Here's how it went down - Kurt "it really came down to one step, and Carol showed me exactly where that step was, where they lost the point, and hey, we couldn't really find it, it's just the fine line of left inside/right inside, I think the judges did the best job we could, we felt it was well judged" WHILE VIDEO OF KEY POINT 1 PLAYS.
LOL! A far cry from Nagano where CBS showed 1st place G&P's stumble on a CD on a splitscreen with B&K's 5th place CD *while B&K were doing the wrong steps* to show B&K were robbed!
DeleteAs opposed to K&O or A&P (2nd and 3rd) whom you could legitimately argue were robbed in that CD.
Another FAIL, lol...Kurt stop really - I think at this point can we petition MTM to go on Stars On Ice and replace Kurt...
DeleteAnd did they then show how DW clearly were on the correct edge at every point?
DeleteI looked at that KP and cannot see where Scott messed up. I did, however, see that Meryl came out of her KP2 twizzle on a flat. Someone should gif it.
DeleteI am going to be gifing both performances, particularly that of our world record holders.
DeleteTim & Sid: Ice dance corrupt as Hell
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh4kECZiXyM
That is awesome. I totally feel his anger LOL!
DeleteCBC re-aired all the freedances, and seeing D/W's skate in HD just highlights how ridiculous that program is. Awful from top to bottom.
ReplyDeleteAnd it was noticeable how tepid the audience response was after their performance and when they got their flowers at the flower ceremony.
Eh, the loud audience response was only really reserved for the home teams. The non-Russians who got appreciative responses were those teams that weren't considered a threat to a Russian ice dance pair on the podium.
DeleteI thought Tessa & Scott had a great ovation, almost as if they were Russian.
Delete5:12, I thought they garnered a good applause. But definitely not equal to the Russians. But then again, nobody got applause like the Russians.
DeleteLesley Buttle (Jeff Buttle's mom) tweeted earlier today "Dance results as predicted or as orchestrated? Sad that we will never be sure" - pretty much sums up it up for the serious skating fan...
ReplyDeleteWell, I am sure the result was wrong. There really is no comparison between VM and DW. VM ice dance; DW do not. They are fun and lively, but they are sloppy in their technique.
Deletehaha, Ice Analysts tweeted that they were "perplexed by the scoring" for both the FD. Of course one DW uber has to respond with
ReplyDeleteJodi J. @JodiJ_in_LA 5h
@icedanceanalyst Seriously? Your bias is pathetic. Davis & White OWNED it.
and
Jodi J. @JodiJ_in_LA 5h
@ChachouMiaou @icedanceanalyst In Vancouver, they decided in advance who was going to win gold.
Sorry, but i feel kind of good that arrogant fans like this feel defensive because they know many people are questioning the results. It is annoying they have to be so aggressive about it. Apparently they attacked Petri.
I wonder what Two For the Ice will write. It would be great to see more blogs breaking things down like OC does here.
*both the SD and FD
DeleteBev Smith speaks truth again:
ReplyDelete"It’s a shame, I think. I hope people realize that we’re probably going to lose Virtue and Moir from this sport and we may not see their like for a very, very long time. They are the standard by which all others should be measured. Davis and White are not that standard, in my mind."
http://www.canada.com/olympics/?p=90980
Are the gloves slowly coming off? http://www.thestar.com/sports/sochi2014/figureskating/2014/02/18/virtue_and_moir_only_hint_at_regret_the_day_after.html
ReplyDeleteThe article reads a bit soap opera-ish, but the quotes are a bit enlightening, I think.
“We went to Marina on countless occasions and told her that we weren’t happy and no way were we going to be happy with the silver medal,” Moir said. “Now we’re happy with the silver medal.”
DeleteIt sounds ridiculous when you read it, but it made sense when he said it.
“We tried everything. It felt a little bit like we were in quicksand.”
---
Yeah that's a bit confusing. Who is the we he's specifically talking about there? The two of them? The three of them? Since the system is the biggest problem and they've acknowledged that at least three times now, are they saying Marina knew early on the silver was in line for them and while they tried everything they could to try and overcome it, it was only when they got to Sochi they realized they needed to accept it as well? I can't get a read on whether they're saying they felt she was trying to prepare them as best she could for the inevitable she knew was coming and couldn't prevent from happening given the fuckery of the system, OR whether they're saying they had to tell her they wanted her to help them fight for more than they felt she was doing? It's not clear.
"They blamed Zoueva. She explained it away in passionate Russanglais. They allowed themselves to be fooled for a while. By the time they realized she wasn’t going to change, there was no point in starting over with a new coach."
DeleteIs that what they were saying? It sounds so much more complex than how this author has summed up their words.
Their words were completely twisted; here are the pressers, judge for yourself:
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJb5pTlNh04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYc2sJRxsnw
Bev Smith and Anne Shaw were interviewed on Canada AM this morning...when asked if V/M should have won, they both agreed they skated their best all season and should have won, but were vague in details. They did talk about how D/W were overmarked in GOE, and that's what made the difference.
ReplyDeleteWhen asked about the anonymous judging and if one judge could make all the difference, you could just tell that Bev Smith wanted to shout "Shawn Restatt!" out loud.
A person who gives a mere 9 to VM in the SD for skating skills and 9.25 in interpretation should not be allowed to judge ice dance.
Deletethe American press is saying that vm had a bobble in their twizzles in the free dance. the nytimes writer. no one in the American press talking about the bullshit scoring. its unreal. and virtue and moir are finally discussing zoueva not being there for them 100% I agree. im done supporting zoueva.
ReplyDeleteOf course since it's American, they must be right, right? (sarcasm) No American is going to look too closely because the gold medalists are from the US. If a Russian team had won, there would be tons of scrutiny. I think all national press have biases. It's just that the holier-than-thou air of US media can be very grating at times.
DeleteNow that the Olympics are done - PB were not happy with the results - according to an article linked at FSU. One thing that stood out for me in the article was that once they knew who the technical panel and the judges were for the Olympics - they got a sense that it was going to be an uphill battle (for me meaning that DW were going to be overscored and that certain judges could be swayed...).
DeleteOverall I am sensing from both PB and VM - that unfortunately off ice politics and judging is way too influential in determining the results in ice dance as opposed to the other skating disciplines.
With IK - we saw that technical push at TEB....you know I like this team but for some strange reason - I don't know if they can last the entire next cycle...I think egos will get inflated and I can see personality clashes eventually hindering them.
Anon here again at 5:02 am - I like IK but holycow did they get away with open skating...and not for anything I don't think they will be as versatile as VM...I am hoping that I am wrong but just going on a gut feeling...
Delete5:02, do you have the link for the article with PB? I've read a French one (using Google Translate), but I'm not sure it was the same you read. In the one I came across, Fabian was calling the sport 'dusty', that it didn't reward creativity and innovation. PB basically said that everyone's doing the same, and without innovation it's just music hall and ballet (must have really been smarting from I/K's Swan Lake edging them out).
Deletehttp://www.insideskating.net/2014/02/18/features/ice-dancing-or-speed-skating
ReplyDeleteCreativity and innovation--something we will never accuse Davis and White of. And that's one of the reasons why they cannot be considered as one of the ice dancing greats.
the narrative all over the us media is that vm somehow missed the twizzles during the free dance? excuse me?
ReplyDeleteWhy can nobody talk about the skating? This isn't athleticism vs chemistry, this is about skating skills!
ReplyDeletehttp://sports.yahoo.com/news/angry-fans--canadian-press-fired-up-over-ice-dance-judging-142853172.html
Still feel like defending Marina ?
ReplyDeletehttp://m.thestar.com/#!/news/virtue-and-moir-only-hint-at-regret-the-day-after/361284ad01c88caf97a9193918a58bbc
You know you're f*ed if SC is your only support.
It's kind of like choosing the lesser of two evils...
DeleteMarina went along with them filming a reality show and helped them facilitate the fake narrative they constructed and put out to the public in that show. Seems to me a coach who didn't give a damn about her skaters wouldn't also sell herself out like that.
DeleteWhat's weird about all of their comments about Marina is that they go back and forth about what the biggest issue was. They talk about the problem is the system, but also that before Vancouver it seemed like Marina was giving them more of her attention than they gave D/W. This time, they claim it felt the other way around. That doesn't sound so much like them saying "it's impossible for her to not have a conflict of interest and we realized that," so much as it sounds like them saying "we're fine with the conflict of interest if we benefit most." Or something. I don't know, because in the next comment they talk about how they wouldn't have wanted to be with any other coach but her. So, I question how much of these responses are the results of their emotions being on high and the constant questioning of their situation being thrown in their faces by the press. All season it's been happening. Anything their coach has done or not done has been publicly questioned by fans and some in the press. Do V/M's thoughts get influenced by that questioning, or are they independent of it? I don't think there's a way to really know that. I'm not saying this to defend their coach more than I'm saying, it's likely a MUCH more complex situation than anyone is going to talk about in a press conference. Plus, history has shown that much of what V/M are actually doing doesn't match up with what comes out of their mouths in interviews. Add in a highly charged environment not 24 hours past the end of their event of which the press and public in Canada are extremely angry about, and you get a very weird press conference where it's clear emotions were running high.
I know many VM fans who feel that it was wrong for Marina to call VM the most talented team she's ever worked with while coaching BA. Obviously, as fans of VM, it's only going to bother us when it hurts them. We are VM fans, not ethics police. Coaching is a service. VM had every right to use that service to win and then move on to a different coach when it benefited them.
Deletehttps://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/international-skating-union-isu-open-an-investigation-into-the-judging-decisions-of-the-ice-dance-competition-at-the-sochi-olympics
ReplyDeleteplease sign the petition. what kind of fans are you if you don't?
ReplyDeleteWe're the kind of fans who think pleading with the ISU to investigate itself is a complete waste of time. They know what they're doing already.
DeleteIf I thought it would do any good, I'd sign that petition, but it won't. The ISU is like someone with a drug or alcohol problem who doesn't want to get better. There's no helping the situation. The ISU doesn't want to clean up it's act and so it never will.
Deletewe can always try...
DeleteWho is the dubemoir blogger??
ReplyDeleteOC PLEASE PLEASE tell everyone to sign the petition
ReplyDeletehttps://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/international-skating-union-isu-open-an-investigation-into-the-judging-decisions-of-the-ice-dance-competition-at-the-sochi-olympics
I love kaitlyn weaver who speaks honestly about the results and what vm mean to the sport by saying they are the best since torville and dean
ReplyDeletethe people of ice network are so stupid http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014/02/18/67881930/moir-says-zoueva-sometimes-wasnt-in-our-corner?fb_comment_id=fbc_1462638723954674_273540_1462657760619437#f2b6dc61e815332
ReplyDeleteOC what do you think? they break with zoueva and retire before worlds? I cant imagine them in canton with zoueva anymore.
ReplyDeleteIce dance is very sick right now. The best thing for everyone involved would be for it to get blown up completely.
DeleteNot OC, but I think it's very clear that VM are done.
DeleteITA, 1:35. Ice dance is infected with disease and it needs to be put out of its misery.
The question of whether changing coaches would have mattered, or if their own coach could have done more for them, etc. - any attempts to lay blame or say "if things had gone differently," or "if they'd done this instead of that," are useless. They miss the reality of what is happening. The entire sport is infected by an aggressive and terminal cancer. All of the "what ifs" or "maybe that's" are like treatments everybody knows deep down won't save the patient's life but will only prolong the suffering.
DeleteFor the past 48 hours, V/M have looked lost and defeated. They can claim they're resigned to the results and maybe they are, but that doesn't mean they aren't still hurt by them. Thing is, though, they've been part of that system all this time. They've benefited from it in the past. It turned on them.
They grew their programs beautifully. They got to GPF and outskated D/W. They still lost. If they or their coach had spoken out then, and claimed a fix was in, would it have mattered? Wouldn't they have been further beaten down for speaking out? They tinkered with their programs in an effort to fix any issues they believed (or were told) they had, and look what it got them: a five point deficit in the overall individual event at the Olympics. It wouldn't have mattered what they did in the end. They were destined to lose no matter what they are or their coaches tried to do. Maybe Marina was right to want them to stick as closely to the original vision of the program as possible. I know that doesn't mesh with the mentalities of fierce competitors, though. So I can understand the frustration V/M probably felt. But they were all up against the fucking wall. They didn't have the political power to overcome it, period. Even if they'd switched coaches, that lack of political power would have remained because V/M aren't American and it was the USFSA's turn to get the gold in ice dance.
In the end, asking those questions is useless in changing anything, but asking those questions to themselves may be something VM need to do in order to work through this. Maybe once they work through all of the paths and realize for themselves that there was nothing they could have done, then they'll be able to make peace with it. Sometimes, you just have to walk the roads in your head. They may need to walk the roads of what-if in their collective head for awhile before they realize they were in a situation where there was nothing that could have been done to change the outcome.
DeleteI was thinking about what the elimination of compulsory figures meant for singles skating earlier today. We occasionally have a Kostner or Chan come along with the superior skating skills, which are valued, but eliminating the compulsory figures allowed a different kind of skater to rise to the top in singles. It allowed those without the strong basic skating skills but who had big tricks (jumps) to win when they wouldn't necessarily have in the past.
With the elimination of compulsories in ice dance, I wonder if the idea was to show a different kind of ice dancer could win. An ice dancer without the greatest of basics, but who could do flashy tricks? So, to promote that idea, maybe part of the idea was to promote DW, a team with crappy, crappy basics, over VM with their outstanding basics and bladework (and everything else).
I'm probably off about that, just thinking out loud.
what do you guys think of tessa and scott being slandered by the us media re: their comments on marina? i think the us media is trying to sweep the allegations under the rug
DeleteV/M basically swept the allegations under the rug and instead said things like "we didn't feel our coach was in our corner in the way she was in Vancouver."
DeleteWhat do you expect? The US media doesn't have to slander V/M, they're digging their own hole by not coming out and talking about the real problem. Instead, they're allowing most of the focus to fall on their coach and her loyalties. Why? Marina did everything they asked her to do - restructuring their programs after GPF - and the point gap between them and D/W...FURTHER WIDENED.
V/M have been getting fucked up the ass by the system for years now. SO CALL OUT THE SYSTEM FOR WHAT IT'S DOING.
They didn't do that. They can't. They've benefited from it themselves in the past. So under the bus their coach goes. Because that's going to fix the larger problems? No it won't.
"The US media doesn't have to slander V/M, they're digging their own hole by not coming out and talking about the real problem" oh man that would've been worse. tessa and scott literally did nothing and the whole us media is making a big deal about it. its pretty dystopian. i am proud how V/M have acted. they went on the ice and have their moment and were robbed and they accepted their silver gracefully and honestly. much more gracefully than S/P, and they are being ripped TO SHREDS for that. have you watched the whole interview? they basically reiterated what they said in their show RE: Marina. yesterday i felt that v/m won the battle with tessa and scott and meryl and charlie trending under rigged. now its obvious that they lost the war. and my heart just breaks for them. poor tessa and scott. persecuted for simply being a talent and a threat towards americans. sacrificed so americans can win their first gold. this sport does not deserve these two great athletes.
Deletebut i have to keep on reminding myself 4 years after declaring himself a platnium medalist, plushenko is hailed as a legend. meanwhile lysachek is no where to be seen and will only be remembered for his overuse of spray tan and resemblance to the little rascal's alfalfa. that's what will happen to tessa and scott and meryl and charlie in four years.
my heart just cant stop breaking for them tho :( i need a hug. preferably a scott moir bear-hug.
and honestly marina toyed with their free too much. i think she deliberately did that because it was perfect at nats and gpf. and i never got the impression that tessa and scott were mad at her tho
"have you watched the whole interview? they basically reiterated what they said in their show"
DeleteYes, I've watched the entire press conference interview, at least what's available to the public. V/M's show was a 98% fabricated production that shoved a faked, dramatic narrative in the face of the public. Using anything on there to back up your assessments of V/M's career or who they are as people is a mistake, unless you use it to back up the assessment that they are willing to lie to the public about damn near everything, which is true.
That V/M "literally did nothing" is both true and untrue. Their skating is pure, but that doesn't mean they haven't benefited from the cancerous system in which they've skated for all these years. They have. The system turned against them. Instead of calling that out and explaining that their sport does that to skaters - it facilitates their victories but can also turn around and fuck them up the ass when it wants to - they let the story revolve around the relationship with their coach. Which isn't to say that isn't part of their story, but so much of success in ice dance depends on the PR narratives that drive it forward. D/W's narrative won out. V/M's narrative was focused on selling lies about their personal life and "letting the skating speak for itself." The first part is bullshit, the second part I agree with. But if you're going to go with the second part, and train with the coach who also happens to train your biggest competition, and then lose because you won't sell out your skating (which is commendable), you can't go throw your coach under the bus and not expect that to play bad in the press. She got on board the "we won't sell out our skating" with them, and then it plays like they sold her out in the aftermath.
what i meant by literally did nothing is that they literally did nothing to warrant this hate. and they didn't throw their coach under the bus. they had the right to question her motives.
DeleteI don't think the US Media is slandering them. I think there are a lot of idiots on twitter who tuned in about 5 minutes ago. They haven't watched ice dance over the past several seasons. They don't have a clue about technique or what's actually going on out there because the network commentators find it inconvenient to discuss ice dance technique. I think the US coverage is a bit slanted to prop up DW, but average Joe has no clue about the scoring or the skating, so to them, it's all sour grapes. Ignore them and go on.
DeleteIf you watch the video, they did not throw Marina under the bus. They were asked very direct questions about their training situation and they answered them honestly.
DeleteIt's a complex situation and of course the jounalists will spin it a certain way but it's just as stupid for the Marina fans to basically imply that they're making up these issues and that there's nothing that could have been better. Having confidence in your coach is kind of important and it sounds like they didn't always have that, which is a shame.
Did nothing? They chose to train with the person who was also coaching their top competition. They came in second. Then they came out afterward and, as you put it, "questioned her motives."
DeleteThe natural reaction to that is "WELL, WHY DID YOU STAY WITH HER? IT WAS YOUR CALL TO DO SO, AND NOW YOU'RE UPSET BECAUSE YOU THINK IT LOST YOU A GOLD MEDAL?"
That's not what lost them the gold medal, but that's how those comments read and you think they've done nothing to warrant the kind of response they're getting? Of course that's the response they're going to get! Take off the rose colored glasses. They chose to make the statements they did, they weren't forced to.
The only way to call out the system for its bullshit is to CALL OUT THE ACTUAL SYSTEM, not talk about how you questioned your coaches motives. In the post-FD press conference, they talked about the system being against them. They should have stayed on that track, but they pulled back and instead the focus switched to their coach. The coach they trained with by choice. See where I'm going with this? Their story switched from the reality that they're being fucked over because of higher politics to "you lost because you put yourself in a position to lose," which isn't true but yes, that's how it reads.
She kind of did get thrown under the bus. It's not about being a Marina defender, it's about how those comments read to the public, which is the point. Yes, they were very carefully worded. I don't think V/M are blaming Marina for their loss. I think they fully understand the larger problems at play and spoke to Marina about doing anything they possibly could to gain more points and try to win. They said as much in the press conference. They said she responded well and they all worked to get it done. All of that is fine. Nothing wrong with them voicing any of that.
DeleteUnfortunately, because it's the SYSTEM that fucked them over, but they didn't SAY that, how the comments are perceived is "they felt their coach wasn't always on their side and that's why they struggled." It *does* come across as sour grapes. The public's natural response is: if they were worried about her loyalty, why did they stay? They doomed themselves, then.
And so on.
No one will call out the system. Everyone is too afraid to do it, or has too much of a stake in it remaining as is. So the best team in the history of ice dance is going to go out with a whimper (sort of, anyway) while the sport continues to elevate or fuck over anybody it wants without consequence.
Just watched the presser, and the media totally spun it to make them sound like sore losers griping. Watch for yourself:
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJb5pTlNh04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYc2sJRxsnw
Again, their comments about Marina were in response to specific questions about Marina, it's not like they were asked why they lost and then came out and blamed her.
DeleteThey probably weren't thinking about how the comments would read at the time. I agree it was probably a mistake, especially since most people won't see the comments in context. But if you're worried about them being branded as sore losers, complaining about the system would be even worse.
Yes @5:36, that's the point I've been trying to make. The media spun it that way and it was bound to happen *because* they share a coach with the team who beat them out for the gold.
DeleteTheir coach isn't the reason V/M didn't win. And to their credit, they never said that. They talked about their concerns this past season and that was fine. They had every right to do so.
Unfortunately, the reason they lost gold (and were fucked over all season long) - that the system turned against them - was pushed to the backburner or almost entirely buried and the attention kept on V/M's relationship with their coach. The coach of D/W, who they CHOSE to train with. The system ends up getting a pass and all of the attention paid to the coaching/skater relationship, which was never the reason they were getting fucked around to begin with. Do you see what I'm getting at?
"But if you're worried about them being branded as sore losers, complaining about the system would be even worse."
DeleteHow so? The situation laid out in the L'Equipe article played out exactly as it said it would. That's what should have been jumped on. But they weren't going to do that. Nobody is. Everyone is too tied in to the system in their own way. The entire sport is diseased.
The reason for their loss is not "the system" either though. I do agree that this system is generally bad for ice dance, limits creativity, reduces the skate to whether an element was done cleanly, etc. However, VM's skating dovetails flawlessly with the system; as written, it rewards everything that they do, *and* they even manage to have the creative side to it and a more 6.0 style for those of us who enjoy that.
DeleteThe #1 problem was the judges not applying that system.
@5:45: Totally agreed. They can't openly criticize the system. And really, anybody who is in the system won't either, for fear of repercussions. Somebody like Kyrolova must be fuming right now, but she wouldn't dare say anything and then have it bite her in the ass of her many teams.
DeleteThe only people who will say anything are those who don't have a stake in the outcome; Bev Smith was doing the rounds on the news this morning:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/sochi/canada-s-tessa-virtue-and-scott-moir-win-silver-in-olympic-ice-dance-1.1690338
(refer to videos 1 and 3 on the right-hand side)
You're right, @5:51. I should have specified. When I wrote "the system," I was referring to the culture that surrounds the entire sport and facilitates all of the corruption that we saw play out all season long (and last season as well).
Deletethe us media IS slandering them. they are taking each sentence out of context. isnt that slander? i dont get why these fans feel the need to harass canadian skaters. the other day joannie rochette was harassed by someone on twitter because of something she said about pchan and she was forced to apologize even though she didnt have to.
Delete"they felt their coach wasn't always on their side and that's why they struggled." It *does* come across as sour grapes. The public's natural response is: if they were worried about her loyalty, why did they stay? They doomed themselves, then.
Deleteexcept it doesn't, because in the video they werent blaming her. if they left, they would've ended up like belbin and agosto.
No, the US media is not slandering them (I think you mean libeling, by the way). It's reprinting their quotes verbatim in articles. Reporters can structure their articles and the quotes any way they see fit.
DeleteAnd yes, it *is* playing as sour grapes in the press because that's how it's being written. I'm telling you how the public is responding. I know they didn't blame Marina for their not winning the gold. But that's how their comments are playing out in the public sphere.
no it isnt the media is trying to make them look like sore losers but they're not. their comments are playing out in the public sphere that way because they were manipulated. tessa and scott dont deserve this. maybe they should just go out and apologized or something even if they didnt do anything wrong. perhaps on their new "twitter" accounts. or maybe someone should write an article
Deleteopps i forgotton a period in the first sentence
Deleteso theyre just going to do ice shows now?
ReplyDeleteI guess. At least CSOI this year. I'd imagine at some point, they'll just disappear completely.
DeleteI can't stomach the idea of them wasting themselves on a bunch of shitty exhibitions to love songs while they scream they're not a couple.
Deletewe'll all disappear completely one day.....
DeleteLori Ewing and every other journalist claiming Marina Zueva not marching with the Canadian team in the Opening Ceremony is an indicator of her switching loyalties needs to do some better homework. Neither D/W or V/M marched in the ceremony, but the Shibutanis did. That's the only other team Zueva brought to the Olympic Games. Why would she not march with them?
ReplyDeleteWhy didnt they participate? VM that is
DeleteAn article announced they weren't marching because the SD was the next day and they wanted to be properly prepared and rested.
DeleteThat scumbag Shawn Restatt needs to be revealed:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.canada.com/olympics/columns/blatchford-tessa-virtue-and-scott-moirs-olympic-silver-medal-scores-a-part-of-the-bizarre-game-of-ice-dance
Try being a member of the Yahoo group Skate Fans----the attacks on ANYONE who dared to even hint at not worshiping the ground that D/W walk on has been so over the top and laced with hysterical vitriol, it's down right scary. I don't get it---why are D/W so freaking sacrosanct? It's rather disturbing actually...
ReplyDeleteDidn't you get the memo? It's American Patriotism at its finest ;-)
DeleteOver at FSU a few psychos accused all of those who supported V&M (some of them are not even V&M fans, just European fans who think that V&M are technically better and were robbed) of anti-Americanism, and said D&W shouldn't be blamed for the war in Iraq and stuff, that it wasn't fair! They basically assumed everyone who was pro-V&M was either European or Canadian, and were hating on D&W because hating on the US is trendy. LOL!
DeleteI'm American, I wish we could send D&W to siberia...
The aggressiveness by which the media and their fans is hyping D/W and demonizing V/M is so over-the-top. It reminds me of the Lance Armstrong era, when the media touted that "he never failed a drug test!", in the same way that D/W "haven't lost a competition since 2012!", yet in both cases, they can't speak to the their actual athletic performances, and have to vilify the competition in the process. I hope this ends ugly in the same way Armstrong went down.
DeleteOC I IMPLORE YOU TO encourage your readers to sign the petition. It's a show of strength, to keep the issue open, and not let it die with the davis/white insane PR efforts. It's lance Armstrong era+. VM and the sham is one thing and I understand your view on that. but this is about the sport and the treatment of fans and an unresponsive media.
DeletePLEASE PLEASE throw your weight behind this petition. You're site is read by everyone. No other skating blog has over a million hits. that's incredible.
https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/international-skating-union-isu-open-an-investigation-into-the-judging-decisions-of-the-ice-dance-competition-at-the-sochi-olympics
Anon 9:16, while true that VM fans consist of Americans such as yourself ( I presume), but you have to admit majority of comments and media outlets lashing out to fans and VM are Americans. Just saying...
Delete"sacrosanct" well i learned a new world today lol. but yahoo sports is fucking TERRIBLE. they are tearing v/m to shreds for no good reason other than to stroke their american ego.
DeleteThey have twisted what VM said in about as many different ways as possible. It wasn't enough that VM had an OGM stolen from them, they have to tear into them too over this of all things.
DeleteIf it were the sham, I'd say tear away, but not over this.
6:19 AM IIRC someone on tumblr was harrasing one of the V/M fanblogs about about being racist against americans because the owner of the blog dared to criticize D/W's skating skills lol
Delete"They have twisted what VM said in about as many different ways as possible. It wasn't enough that VM had an OGM stolen from them, they have to tear into them too over this of all things. "
Delete^THIS. MOTHERFUCKING THIS.
I've read many articles covering the press conference, some of them more measured, some of them less with more wordsmithing and implying context that VM didn't. The yahoo article takes the cake though in that it basically outright says VM said things that did not come out of their mouths.
Deletetessa's dad is a lawyer. why not sue yahoo??? send a cease and desist
Deletei wonder if i can send a cease and desist on behalf of tessa and scott... that probably illegal tho so im not going to lol
DeleteOne of the worst D/W kiss @ss members of the Skate Fans group is a US state circuit court judge, and she posts constantly during work hours. Constantly. (Um.....shouldn't she actually be working?! Isn't that what she's being paid for?) If I lived in her state, I would be annoyed as all get out that my tax dollars were being spent in this manner. Someone should report her to the State Bar Association for unprofessional conduct......
Deleteif you are so much sign and spread the petition. VM are being maligned in the press to cover up the skating controversy.
Delete12:58 omg someone should. anyone have email/evidence? like if you had proof they are spreding slanderous lies you can send it to where she works. you can start the email by saying "hello this is what your employee does during work hours" then complain about your tax dollars or something like that. anyone have the guts to do it?? lol
Deleteplease stop the use of words slander and libel. the reporters chose one part of the VM interview and blew it out of proportion. that's what American reporters do when they want a quick and easy and dirty headline that will get them traffic. duh. link the full vm intv to their comments. that's doing something. creating fake law in your head is not.
Deletestill, v/m are still victims of yellow journalism.
DeleteIt's because it's a fraud.
DeleteIf you can't talk about it, then something is funky. Something's being suppressed. When everything's on the up and up, it can be aired out. When there's a genuine rivalry between two closely matched athletes or teams, things can get heated but everybody wade in and is comfortable in the fray.
When there's bullshit - suppress suppress suppress. On and OFF the ice.
Nobody could publicly discuss Scott and Tessa contradictions, inconsistencies, and outright lies (the evidence against the rift) on message boards. It was uncomfortable because there was an uncomfortable truth people wanted to suppress.
Same with the overreaction to criticism of DW. If DW were legit these people wouldn't be fazed, they'd come back all points blazing about the great skating.
The great skating isn't there. Another sign when the case is weak is when you want to take the focus off what you're defending and go on the offense against your opponent. IOW, the yahoo group's quick trigger is evidence they know it was a rip off.
I think there are doubters about the legitimacy of the ice dance competition on both sides of the border!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/02/sochi-games-did-davis-and-white-really-deserve-gold
lol ofc the comment section has to rip the author to shreds
DeleteLove this quote found over at fsu
ReplyDelete"Sport is up and down," Zoueva said. "Tessa and Scott are Olympic champions, two-time world champions. Meryl and Charlie once Olympic, three-times world champions. This is sport. They [each] have one [Olympic] silver medal, so it's kind of really balanced. And I always tell them, ice dance is a sport."
Zoueva made a slip of the tongue here: Both teams have two world titles. Virtue and Moir won in 2010 and 2012, Davis and White in 2011 and 2013. Is this a hint about which of the teams plans to compete at the 2014 World Figure Skating Championships in Saitama, Japan? icenetwork.com
I'd love to ask Marina how she is defining "sport". Because ice dance is certainly no longer sport.
DeleteWill VM now come out as a married couple?
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine it because they established Cassandra on the show. They can not undo their history of lying unless they can give a pretty good excuse, like the ISU forced them to do it or something like that.
DeleteOn the other hand, I haven't seen Cassandra in Sochi yet. Maybe Moirville had enough sense not to parade her around anymore. Or maybe Cassandra is passed cause the show did nothing for her.
Cassandra was spotted in Sochi earlier on, when the families first arrived but hasn't been seen since. Apparently no one saw her at the short dance or free dance and she wasn't with Scott/Tessa/Patrick Chan at the curling event. Sochi! Search party for Cassandra!
DeleteI that the Russia fan who claims to have seen Cassandra is considered a credible source bit I am not so sure about it. This group of Russian fans is extremely loyal to everything Tessa and Scott say and I wouldn't put it past them to simply state they have seen Cassandra only to " help " Scott to convince the " crazy " people on this blog.
DeleteOr maybe she confused somebody else for Cassandra. Cass looks a lot like Tessa and her sister Jordan. Or any brunette woman , there isn't anything special about her looks.
I can't imagine that Moirville would keep her hidden during the individual event. Canadian TV showed the Moirs in a close up and Cassandra usually would have been seated next to them.
Either the Cassandra sham is over or they're planning a big thing that's supposed to shock us. Who knows, Scott could propose to her during the hockey finale lol I hope the Moirs don't read this, they actually might like this idea and really do it.
I'd believe the Russian fan was lying if this picture didn't exist. https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1621704_10153797442290322_1409560243_n.jpg That's definitely Cassandra in the back with Cara (of course!).
DeleteWho knows what'll happen next. Go big or go home, Scotty. Engagement? Possibly.
3:12 - Please don't give suggestions. I think we've all figured out Moirville loves to lift ideas from the message boards.
DeleteI doubt the sham is over. Their good friend who loves to promote the #hotcouple of Cassandra-Scott posted a picture in honour of the day of the SD: http://ink361.com/app/users/ig-336528807/photos
And in honour of the FD, posted this one, which had been shared with fans before through her instagram but now it's her profile. Just to show how much she loves Scotty:
https://www.facebook.com/brittney.inglis.7
Isn't Moirville lovely. As always, their b.s. ends up upstaging Tessa and Scott's GF and friends come across possessive, needing to prove they own Scott.
After their "documentary" how do they get out of this? They don't. I don't think they had any intention of ending the sham after the Olympics and filming lies for the public ensures their narratives are set.
LOL @ "#onehotcouple" Britney's new Insta pic though. She and her man look very much like a couple and then there's Scott and Casssandra just tagging along for the show.
DeleteMy favourite pre-Sochi pic is the one that Cass and her friend commented on... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151930841805905&set=a.432270005904.194725.500420904&type=1&theater
Cassandra Hilborn whatta cutie
Ashlynn Read haha for sure Cass..... he's a lucky guy, you're a lucky girl!! haha meant for each other!
Really girls?
Cassandra was in sochi? And toddler moir?? She is the fifth son of kate virtue!! I'm a mother too like this tessa!!!
DeleteThought you guys would "enjoy" absolute skating's craptacular reviews of the Olympics... and amazingly, they were written by former US national level ice dancers. If they can't even give constructive comments for a site specifically geared to skating fans, what hope is there? The freaking Vanity Fair article is not worse:
ReplyDeleteShort dance: Anastasia and Isabella Cannuscio
http://www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=articles&id=2014ogicedancesd-cannuscio
Lots of comments about who is hot, "connection" and propping up their friends. They can't tell any difference whatsoever between BS and PB! They lost interest in PB cause of the music.
FD: Colin McManus
http://www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=articles&id=2014ogicedancefd-colinmcmanus
His comments are nominally better, but there is no substance, it's all about style, and what he "liked." V&M were incredible, but it lacked a storyline, so of course they should lose. And there is not one thing D&W could've done better!
wow colin is so rude
Delete"Unfortunately, the reason they lost gold (and were fucked over all season long) - that the system turned against them - was pushed to the backburner or almost entirely buried and the attention kept on V/M's relationship with their coach. The coach of D/W, who they CHOSE to train with. The system ends up getting a pass and all of the attention paid to the coaching/skater relationship, which was never the reason they were getting fucked around to begin with."
ReplyDeleteThe reality show and so many other lies from VM, including their terrible PR, sometimes had me seriously questioning their sanity. Ok, in terms of PR they really are messed up. But hearing them say they were feeling like Marina wasn't in their corner is some kind of relief for me as a fan, and the way they talked about looking at the whole situation in the judging and realizing what was going on. They aren't as dumb as I was beginning to think.
I agree with the quoted statement above. There was no coach, no magic music, that would have changed these results. It's the corruption embedded in the system that is the problem.
Isn't it interesting the focus wants to shift to the coach/skater relationship when, like the quote above says, that's not the issue here. The problem is the corrupt judging. But VM should be comfortable with this. They've never wanted too much attention on the skating details of their lives, they lobbied and pushed for all the attention to be directed to their NON-relationship.
Where was all this media outcry about the judging before this? They were all fawning over the passionate platonic wonderfulness of VM. No skating to be found anywhere. No pushback to the mammoth DW media train. Nope. VM were trying on bridal clothes, posing in bathing suits and on horses in Aruba and making up relationship crap for a reality series.
It's sad to hear about their feeling of abandonment re. Marina but I can't also help wondering what the hell they were doing filming a reality show on top of all this other stress? Why did Marina sign off? Was it supposed to be a consolation prize for not getting the gold? I do hope VM get all this sorted out in their own minds. There are important things for them to learn and important decisions re, Marina. Also, other skaters watching can learn from this. But it's not the main issue in what happened to VM this quadrennial. OC mentioned in another entry they were being hoisted by their own petard. I do wonder how their ridiculous sham-life affected things. They may be able to comparmentalize like pshycos but real life doesn't work that way. Invariably stuff from one area leaks into another.
Something else that has stood out in these interviews is how DIFFERENT everything about Tessa and Scott is compared to the reality show. Where is fragile insecure Tessa? Douchebag Scott who is insensitive to her? The team who struggles to connect and can't wait to go hang out with other people?
In these new narratives, Tessa and Scott are very much a team, assessing their situation together and united in facing the reality of the system and their coaching situation. Tessa is STRONG, confronting Marina. There's a sense of togetherness and understanding. Just another indication that the show is all lies.
My wish is that the judging would be exposed and called what it is - a scandal. That VM's skating would be vindicated. It would also be nice if the idiotic sham would disappear and the reality show also exposed for what it is. A hoax on the public.
I'm dealing with this in a new post. As sometimes happens, I do a new post and then read new comments in the post below, and what I'm saying has already been brought up and aired out by the participants in the comments section. On top of what's being pointed out here, Skate Canada was in our face enabling the narrative that Virtue and Moir and Davis and White were equal, that Davis White were superb - and meantime the USFSA's narrative was that Davis White were dominant and Virtue and Moir were error-prone, inconsistent, and simply not as technically strong or as fast.
DeleteWhat the unholy fuck? I can see if both Federations are promoting the rivalry, the battle of equals, but that wasn't what was going on. Skate Canada was promoting the "rivalry" as fair because it worked hard to tell us Davis White deserved all of their wins, Davis White WERE as good, and meantime over on the US side we were being told that Davis and White stood alone and Virtue Moir could no longer challenge their supremacy.
It's not new. The fans have bitched their asses off about coaching because some of those who hate Marina are very loud, but they're very forgiving of Skate Canada. Skate Canada had NOTHING to say when Virtue and Moir were scored seven points behind Davis White in the team dance. Mike fucking Slipchuk knows what key points look like, he knows when twizzles aren't in synch, he knows what flats are, he knows what open hold is. He never uttered a peep about either the simplistic layout of Davis & White's programs nor a peep about their dubious execution. NOTHING. After his Olympic champion ice dancers were insulted in the team event, he pretty much did what everyone does - oh Tessa wobbled!
Yes, the ice dance event was blatant fraud. But that's been what ice dance has been about on and off the ice for years now.
Interesting tidbit from FSU:
ReplyDeleteThe ISU goes out of their way to ensure that the discussion around figure skating remains this way? Back in the fall one of the Eurosport guys mentioned that he was interested in getting tech training but this was not allowed because members of the press are not permitted.
Yep, I remember that and the blog commented on it.
DeleteThe ISU WANTS an uninformed public and uninformed media.