In keeping with the two-year trend of Davis White committing glitches, mistakes and oops's, and everyone agreeing to say they didn't, let's look at these video comparisons shared in a comments section further down.
With thanks once again to canadablue.
With thanks once again to canadablue.
GPF:
Start at 2:53
Nationals.
At 7:11
At 6:45
Kaitlyn Weaver at 4:45
I don't know if the segment edits will transfer - I think not, but the videos are worth it in their entirety and I've noted the minute/second point for the relevant segment.
Skate America
at 2:43
NHK
2:47
These videos help establish that the entire Canadian team has pushed past Davis White. NOBODY is skating like Davis and White. Nobody else's programs look like Davis and White's. Why? These are the programs that are winning and will win in Sochi. Moreover, they have a clear, easily deconstructed formula with lots of filler, and dumbed down lift mechanics that receive monster scores. WHY are no other teams doing what they do or even imitating?
Also let's link to this:
http://daviswhite2014.blogspot.com
 |
| Davis and White out of synch in their Level 4, +3 Twizzles at the GPF. And the screen cap doesn't show Charlie's stumble into the entrance of the sequence. As noted in the comments section, Davis & White only do two twizzles, and one of them was this much out of synch. +3! |
Virtue and Moir's power and speed crushes Davis White's. So naturally, the skating chattering class, even those who pretend to be Virtue Moir supporters, say these are the only areas where Davis White best Virtue Moir. What - these are the areas that have traditionally won in ice dance? You don't say.
very interesting. OC, how do you think they will make the big reveal? I don't see how much longer they can keep this up. not with the show at least? at this point, I have no idea how they would reveal themselves as a couple with a kid. how?!
ReplyDeleteAre you the same person who asked for OC's opinion on the free dance twenty thousand times?
Deletecalm down, parapluies
Deletewho?
Deletewhhaaaaat?! B-b-but DW NEVER make mistakes and they are perfect in every way! It must be more difficult to do the twizzles 180 degress out of synch--and teh stumble should get them an extra GOE.
ReplyDeleteThis is how ridiculous his 'sport' has become. Thank goodness for the bloggers
the stumble counts as a difficult entry.
DeleteMy fave part is the butt jut when they grab their skate blades. Beauty!
DeleteWell lucky you, because the butt jutt pops up a lot on their programs--one of the reasons they are blowing the field away in PCS. This butt jutt must be a sign of control.
DeleteCongrats on having over 970,000 hits to your blog that every three months or so the people in Secret Sources at FSU pretend they've just discovered!
ReplyDeleteHaha, you know the folks from Sekret Sources read this blog compulsively. It's a religion to them. Like you said, hilarious how they pretend to just have "discovered" this blog!
DeleteThank you! They also discover it in pms quite frequently (statcounter).
DeleteSo I'm curious... can you tell when the link comes to you via PM vs. any other part of the board? I figured it'd just say "fsuniverse" was the domain.
DeleteYes, the statcounter shows where on the forum it came from (not who, and not the pm content, if it's any consolation). The statcounter shows ISPs, links, and other traffic info.
Deleteoc
This is actually a decent interview with VM, shot when they arrived in the airport in Sochi: http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=286100
ReplyDeleteThe succinctness of Tessa's answer to the question about what they were thinking right now was reassuring to me about their preparedness. OC is right, the less they say, the better. Not that it's going to count for anything in the placements, but the better they skate, the more foolish the judges are going to look.
The blog you linked put up AWaltzFlower's videos. I hope people continue to use them on their blogs.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what Tessa & Scott's positions are on gay rights? I haven't heard anything from them on the question. I mean. We all know what Scott's family thinks about it. Figure skating is full of macho guys right? Yet they know tons of skaters that are gay. Time to speak up. Anti-gay positions are going the way of the dodo bird. Maybe like their career. Lol. Just a thought. I think Scott is a better and the whole is he isn't she a cover-up... really. No straight guy I know acts the way he does. Flamer??? Me thinks.
ReplyDeletewtf?
DeleteWell we all know Scott is homo for Tessa ;)))
Deletelol
DeleteWe know what Alma said about ten years ago and it was disgusting. And it was so unTHOUGHT - which seems to be how Moirville rolls. If this is still the mindset, then they appear to compartmentalize. They love Brian Orser and Jeffrey Buttle and other gay Canadian skaters, snicker at Johnny Weir, and don't see the hypocrisy - or the offense they give the gay skaters who are their friends.
DeleteThey are also completely out of touch with contemporary culture, which is typical of figure skating overall, I think. Look at President Obama's delegation to the Olympics, and look at this reality show desperate to assert that Scott is straight and his penis works. He's a figure skater - he has something to prove. It's absurd. Meantime, how many male singles skaters are ignoring figure skating's apparent obsession with hyper-masculinity, and skating programs that they want to skate - to increasing popularity?
Yikes, I missed that. What did Alma say?
DeleteFSU's VM fans are great. They're going in at DW. Just look through the Olympic ice dance discussion.
ReplyDeletem_chenning's post about Meryl and her ugly positions is so true. Those pictures are hilarious!
DeleteThat post is GOLDEN!
Deletetourtiere has also been on fire tonight.
DeleteAnd he or she got negative rep and a PM from a DW uber. lol that's so insecure of the d/w fans.
Deleteshe prolly got that neg. rep from Kaffeine LOL. kaffeine prolly got pissed because tourtiere was right all along. #teamtourtiere lol
DeleteGlad to see they're using facts to prove that V/M are better, but it's important to pull back and acknowledge that FSU's V/M fans also have a tendency to be complete and total idiots, as evidenced by the conversations about how V/M's coach has abandoned them or "thrown them under the bus."
Deletem_chenning's post about Meryl and her ugly positions is so true.
DeleteThe evidence doesn't get much clearer than that. Anyone who claims DW are doing ballet need to read that post and look at the pictures they included. #teamm_chenning
Here is m_chenning's awesome post:
Delete"Ballet? Really? Look at the "le coup de pied" in Seasons. And look what Meryl is doing during her "tours" and "pas de bourré", how the lack of extension, her awful hips positions and arms, and also bad posture are corresponded with "mirror the choreography" of the ballet from my country? Meryl and ballet- it's ridiculous. What a joke!"
coup de pied picture:
http://i.imgur.com/DVB5TVC.jpg
hip positions and arms picture:
http://i.imgur.com/6WJUn0E.jpg
bad posture picture:
http://i.imgur.com/qfk8OjC.jpg
Would you look at that. A post that outlines the actual movements we are seeing using correct terminology and provides photographic examples.
DW's 'ballet' training is probably just token at this stage. Perhaps when they first started training together with their rivals, VM were so far ahead that they just gave up on it. Didn't they show contempt for ballet in a previous interview?
DeleteWho knows if they really worked hard at it or that's really the extent of Meryl's 'flexibility' and 'turnout'. I think it's doable though -- look at Scott. He probably doesn't like it (not like Tessa at any rate), but he's very competitive and recognizes how essential it is to ice dance.
Now, predictably, people are passing these off as bad pictures of Meryl, ones that every skater or dancer has. They are missing the point entirely. These are issues with her actual technique. Her body looks completely sloppy and out of control throughout the entire move). I don't think it is rude to point that out.
DeleteThis is not just a matter of a bad moment or two. This is an issue that can be seen throughout.
And some of the same people complaining have no issues with making harsh comments about Bobrova for the same reasons.
Look at this truly exemplary footwork sequence (scroll down to the bottom of the page):
ReplyDeletehttp://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/difference-between-ice-dancing-figure-skating-sochi-olympics-viewers-guide-232454759.html
The difficulty! The intricacy! This is totally worthy of (cheated) gold.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/meryl-davis-charlie-white-calm-under-pressure-olympic-favorites
ReplyDelete"Davis and White are routinely called the best ice dancing tandem ever"
and several other lies in this article. This journalism is just desperate.
It's an American journalist. Writing for the official Olympics broadcaster in the US. Can we expect anything less when DW are on the cusp of a historic (and unfair) gold?
DeleteBut honestly, I did rage inside at 'routinely called the best ice dancing tandem ever'. Not even counting VM, are we to disregard Torvill and Dean? Klimova and Ponomarenko? Heck, Grishuk and Platov *ice danced* better than DW, with superior knees, edging, lines, carriage, posture, connection (they also had 2 Olympic golds). Best ever? By whose criteria? That's why people have top 5/10 lists etc., because how can you choose? You take in the different eras and what was valued in each one, how do you pick just one and crown them king and queen?
"routinely called the best ice dancing tandem ever".
DeleteRoutinely by whom?!
"Davis and White are routinely called the best ice dancing tandem ever"
DeleteROFL
Make it stop! Please!
lmao as if! they don't even crack my top 10 best dance teams!
DeleteThey don't even make my top 5 best teams this season. The field has gotten a lot better recently and DW have fallen behind.
DeleteNew IN article: http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2014/02/04/67434004/the-last-battle-davis-and-white-vs-virtue-and-moir
ReplyDelete"I think we've definitely capitalized on the opportunity to train alongside them for all of these years." Well duh, Meryl. You and White piggybacked on VM's success back in the last quad. Undeserving twit.
Also, that 1.35 point difference? Placement should have been switched, as *you* guys had the bobbles. VM skated magnificently (and mistake-free) at GPF.
Delete"Nothing is changing except the end of the story," she said. "The last hold will be different."
DeleteReally, Marina? I can't imagine how this story will end other than your American team cruising to an ill-gained victory...
Anon at 9:31: Agreed. IMO, if V/M had been deservedly 1st after the short dance, they would've won the GPF overall.
Deletecheck out the twits in the comment section LOL how naive of them
DeleteWho is reese and why is this person so upset that people are discussing the possibility of a fix? People have explained with examples why they think the judging is incorrect--is a fixed result in ice dance really such a stretch? And where is the vitriol this person referenced? Is questioning the scores and speculating about a fix now considered vitriol? And is it consistently labelled as such?
ReplyDeleteThis seems to be the fallback tactic--insult all the people challenging the results in an attempt to shut down the discussion. This happens a lot on FSU in discussions of DW (see the "bookie" thread).
DeleteThis reese person said they are not partial to either of the top two teams and actually care more about PB, but i swear this person is a DW fan. I had to laugh at the 'well, I just came in here to check if VM had arrived in Sochi'...really? And the patronizing lecture was just a little gift to the people in that thread? Anyways, I think people in there are doing a great job and I hope they continue to post their arguments.
same goes for icenetwork(duh). if you criticize D/W's skating the old ladies at ice network tell you to "SHUT UP"
DeleteI can't imagine why criticisms as eloquent as the many you offer up on each and every IN article earn such unjust responses.
DeleteI love how the DW ubers think they are better fans because they deign to acknowledge that VM are good skaters who could even possibly deserve to win once in a while, while VM won't do the same courtesy do DW, and in fact don't even think DW should medal!
DeleteUm yeah, if the judges started marking Kemp King above Volosozhar Trankov with Kemp King doing the same elements they've been doing (2 flips and such) with far inferior skating skills and mechanics, then yeah I am sure the KK would be so kind as to admit VT are good skaters, while VT fans would be a weeeeeeeeeee bit upset and crying controversy...
That Olympic ice dance thread is a shit show.
DeleteI love this one from rustyskater:
"When I look at the top teams' respective body of work over the past five or so years, I rate DW head and shoulders above other teams by virtue of the consecutive consistently, well executed, bona fide "hits" they've created over time (S&D 2009, Bollywood 2010, DF 2011, Giselle 2012, Shez 2013). VM may have had compelling programs also (Carmen, Flamenco, FF, Latin, Mahler), however, there were clear mistakes, struggles along the way..."
Um, DW had a splatfest at CoR in 2008, and didn't get their levels on the step sequences for DF all season (with the exception of the generously marked GPF where level 4s were handed out like candy). They didn't skate their rumba patterns well at all at worlds 2012, had a rough diagonal step sequence in the FD that year, and messed up the beginning of their Yankee Polka at 2013 worlds. Oh yeah, and they were tight in the FD there as well. I feel like making gifs of all these mistakes, signing up for an account at FSU, and posting them.
That Jessiebanana chick needs to take a chill pill. What's with the holier-than-though attitude?
Delete"They select pictures and screen shots that support their theories. They surround themselves by like minded people...This evidence is hardly objective and anyone who's been to school understands presentation and context. It's very selective evidence."
Um, good skating is good skating. It doesn't lie behind inflated marks handed out by corrupt judges.
8:15 PM you should but its going to take FOREVER for your account to get activated on FSU
Delete@8:47
Delete"That Jessiebanana chick needs to take a chill pill. What's with the holier-than-though attitude?
"They select pictures and screen shots that support their theories. They surround themselves by like minded people...This evidence is hardly objective and anyone who's been to school understands presentation and context. It's very selective evidence." "
That Jessiebanana is a fine one to talk. She throws tantrums all the time and is perfectly fine with skaters of whom she is not too fond being trashed, given that she is often doing the trashing. She has posted in a few places on the board that BS have atrocious skating skills for a tp 10 team, that she wishes they would just fade into oblivion, etc.
rustyskater has also participated. If you can dish it out about other teams....
As for the part about VM fans "select[ing] pictures and screen shots that support their theories"...um, it's called providing evidence to back up an assertion. It is pretty common in debates. And the part about "selective evidence"--you could say that about any evidence. It is a pretty lazy argument when it is not supported by examples of what is being overlooked. Why not actually address the specific arguments being made and show how or why they are flawed?
rustyskater and a lot of other people don't take into consideration that there is more inherent risk in what VM do. The construction of their programs make the elements more difficult, and they change their elements up more than most teams. Also, I think this blog and that new one linked here show that DW are not as clean as many people think. Those mistakes are just being overlooked.
DeleteIt looks like that thread has now moved, because I'm unable to access it now...how convenient...I guess to shut up the V/M fans?
Delete8.15 I want to make gifs too. But I really don't like downloading or touching anything with D/W written on it
DeleteThe hypocrisy among posters like mia joy, Jessiebanana, rustyskater, claireclouthier, etc. is astounding. They have all gone after other skaters and talked about their results being amounting to nothing more than politics. But heaven forbid someone utter a word about DW that isn't in line with the notion that DW are perfect or near perfect and deserving of their astronomical scores and titles. That is considered vitriol. Please!
Delete"I love how the DW ubers think they are better fans because they deign to acknowledge that VM are good skaters who could even possibly deserve to win once in a while, while VM won't do the same courtesy do DW, and in fact don't even think DW should medal!
DeleteUm yeah, if the judges started marking Kemp King above Volosozhar Trankov with Kemp King doing the same elements they've been doing (2 flips and such) with far inferior skating skills and mechanics, then yeah I am sure the KK would be so kind as to admit VT are good skaters, while VT fans would be a weeeeeeeeeee bit upset and crying controversy..."
lol, so true.
Just rewatched I/K's SD. Their flow, glide, knee action absolutely destroys D/W. Sad and a real shame how the medals will turn out in Sochi.
ReplyDeleteOn FSU a new picture during VM practicing has Marina at the boards wearing a USA sweater. Yes its only practice but really as a professional - she should could have easily opted for clothing that had neither country on it.
ReplyDelete"The DW ubers have their panties in a knot because VM fans are always criticizing their programs and never, ever, ever say anything nice about them.
ReplyDeleteIt's vitriol, I tell you".
I'm reading the threads and laughing at my screen re: the DW ubers's responses. They want to "play nice" when it comes to D/W, when it's another team nothing is off limits. reese defending him/herself as a P/B fan is beyond lame and funny in the VM thread.
It looks like the "Ice Dance" thread was moved, and I can't access it now...can somebody give the play-by-play? The last post I read was D/W uber Kaffiene defending that D/W did vary their twizzles between the 2007-10, but haven't changed them since (duh...she kind of shot herself in the foot there), and they skated to waltz and tango music (umm, they have had waltz and tango music, but they sure as hell didn't interpret those rhythms), and the only lift they recycled is the split rototional lift (duh, the shapes of their lifts might look different, but they are still clutch/climb/grab, no technique or finesse whatsoever).
DeleteI'm sure she'll be switching it up between Team US and Team Canada clothing. Let's not forget, she has two US teams there, one Canadian. This is not a big deal.
ReplyDeleteSo the IOC is considering "...setting up an independent body that allows athletes to report information on doping and match-fixing without fear of reprisals."
ReplyDeleteIf only this was set-up NOW. Someone needs to blow the whistle on the grave injustice that is about to happen in the ice dance competition.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ioc-consider-neutral-body-whistleblowers-130352162--spt.html
Well I don't think Igor will be switching between Team Italy (CL) and Team France (PB) or Team USA (CB). Yes perhaps Marina will switch back and forth but I still think it would have been more professional to not wear either country- my personal opinion..
ReplyDeleteAnon 3:59, I'm sure Platov would love to know that his partner is being compared to Meryl.
ReplyDeleteThese comparisons are starting to get ridiculous...Meryl couldn't get herself into a dance company unless she was in charge of opening/closing the curtains (I know this is harsh...)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.skatecanada.ca/AboutUs/NewsDetails/tabid/2157/sni%5B2797%5D/3259/language/en-US/Default.aspx
ReplyDeleteHow utterly, utterly annoying that this article only came out now.
We should spread the article as widely as possible on social media. Intelligent, insightful. I wish there was more.
Delete"What’s more, Virtue and Moir can vary their speed and change direction seamlessly – important in the transitions category of the program component mark and also the choreography category to some extent. They can slow to a stop, and then regain top speed in three or four strokes. The variation of speed allows for the shades and light of interpretation. They change dance holds frequently, easily, eschewing the same-direction skating that is so much easier. “Their movement from one hold to another is just like little rose petals unfolding,” Shaw said. “It’s superb. They skate in close relation all the time. But you are never aware that they are changing hold. They sort of fold into each other – and I think that is superior to anybody.”
DeleteIt's what VM fans have been saying ad nauseam for the past few seasons. Damn, Skate Canada. What poor, misguided effort you showed in promoting the best ice dance team of this generation.
WHY is this only on Skate Canada's website?! I can't even find this article doing a simple google search for "Virtue Moir"
DeleteThis article needs to be spread around everywhere on social media. Why are they putting this out now. Ugh.
"I AM an uber--about ICE DANCING. I am not an uber about ridiculous puff pieces posing as "journalism." " So said Weak Ankles at GS.
DeleteWhat should we call Joe Posnanski's NBC article on DW then? Beverley Smith told no lies about VM's technique and artistry. And the traits she noted in her profile are those that true ice dancers should emulate.
To Weak Ankles:
DeleteIt is a profile--of course it is going to be positive about the athletes being described (though, in this case, those athletes really don't have any weaknesses in their skating). And she talked about specific aspects of their skating, she didn't just throw vague descriptors around.
"And the traits she noted in her profile are those that true ice dancers should emulate."
I totally agree.
Of course this profile is going to have the DW-ubers up in arms. They'll pout and stomp, but deep down, it's because they know it's true.
DeleteAnd how true it is. Every last word of it is the God-given truth when it comes to VM's skating. Every.Last.Word. There are no vague, non-skating statements in this piece. It's all about the skating, all in specifics. It's an outstanding piece.
Anon 10:28: Totally agreed that this is an outstanding piece. Contrast this to that garbage piece written by Joe Posnanski's NBC, that spewed garbage such as "Davis and White are routinely called the best ice dancing tandem ever" without qualifying any of it in skating terms.
DeleteCirculate this far and wide, everyone, including all the media outlets; spam their Facebookpages, twitters, LET'S GET THE WORD OUT THERE.
Anon@6:49, whatever is coming out publicly from Platov's mouth, I think he's probably sniggering in private at the people who think Meryl Davis could ever be considered Grishuk's equal in ice dance skills.
ReplyDeleteBeverly Smith writes another slam-dunk article, explaining every aspect of why V/M's skating is superior, everything from their stroking, to their lifts, to their footwork. The best possible endorsement for V/M:
ReplyDelete"Speed? It’s supposed to come from rhythmic knee action, since the rules specifically discourage excessive amounts of toe steps. This is no problem for Virtue and Moir, because, Shaw says, they are the most powerful skaters in the world. Speed is just the velocity across the ice, no matter how you get there. It is not the same as power. Some are fooled by speed, but how is it generated? Virtue and Moir have a hidden power, that comes from deep knee bends, and it allows them to float across the ice. Their stroking is so smooth and well-matched, that it appears effortless."
http://www.skatecanada.ca/AboutUs/NewsDetails/tabid/2157/sni%5B2797%5D/3259/language/en-US/Default.aspx
It is a great article/profile. I wish other journalists covering figure skating would take her lead. Finally, someone who doesn't treat the fans like idiots and who actually acknowledges that we are interested in the technical aspects of teh sport. Throw it down, Bev!
DeleteKudos to this article. Perhaps someone should RT this to Kurt Browning, PJ Kwong, Brenda Irving, Lynn Rutherford, Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, Johnny Weir, Sandra Bezic, Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano, Kristi Yamaguchi - and perhaps remind them that this is what skating is about...in particular ice dance...
DeleteHow does one know if one's tweet has been received? Or if someone replied to you? Because I've tweeted before and it felt like I was talking to myself. I couldn't tell if I did something wrong with the settings, or the persons chose to ignore me. Twitter did say that my messages were sent.
DeleteHas anyone seen the new FD ending yet? Given the tone of the show and recent interviews, I'm expecting something like ending with their backs to each other, gazing joyfully into the future where they talk to each other only once a year...finally free of each other's stressful and tiresome company.
ReplyDeleteHahaha. IT WILL BE SUCH A BEAUTIFUL AND EMOTIONAL EMBODIMENT OF THAT FREEDOM.
Delete7:02 its not harsh its true lol
ReplyDeleteDW ubers have compared DW to GP before. They ignore the fact that GP's speed came from strong blade technique, not hopping and tugging at each other.
ReplyDeleteAnothe brilliant article today:
ReplyDelete"We don't want to be in a rivalry, we want to separate ourselves (from them). The good thing is we feel like we are on track.
"We feel like we've competed very well in the Fall circuit and now it's time for us to separate our skills and show our strengths."
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/virtue-moir-ready-gamble-190135818--oly.html
If they didn't want to be so closely associated with DW and this false rivalry, it might have helped to change rinks.
DeleteLove how T/S have said countless time they're just civil with D/W, but D/W still imply they're friends
DeleteThe DW ubers like to compare them to GP because Pasha didn't have quite the lines and extension of an Usova, Krylova, or Klimova. But she was still quite elegant on the ice, and had the correct posture, frame, extension, body alignment, mechanics, etc. She and Platov had excellent compulsories, skating very close together with superb blade edges, matching lines, proper timing, etc. GP were excellent at skating to different rhythms in the CD and OD.
ReplyDeleteOTOH, the gap between Meryl and Tessa is ginormous, and covers many more things than lines. It's a completely false analogy.
Also, according to Meryl, the Russian teams only win because of politics, so they ubers shouldn't compare their own queen to any untalented Russian ice dancers. Meryl & Charlie are the best ever. NBC and IN told me so. They have the only perfect FD score in history; even Bolero had a few 5.9s!
ReplyDelete@4:16
ReplyDeleteI agree. GP blow DW away in every aspect of their skating. They were not only incredible technicians, they were great dancers. I could understand people calling GP the greatest ice dancers of all time, but DW? They are a good team but nowhere near greatness.
I wish I could bring myself to watch these but watching DW skate irritates me.
ReplyDelete