That's harsh, but attention was recently called to this interview with one of the most wonderful teams in skating, the Shibutanis:
ShibSibs: The Social Athlete
This Q&A focuses on the Shibutanis' profilic, cross-platform presence on social media, which includes ShibSib Production videos featuring other high profile figure skaters in entertaining, light-hearted video shorts.
The quote that stands out is this:
On a very fundamental level, our involvement with social media today probably has its roots in the fact that a very important part of what we enjoy as athletes – particularly in a performance sport such as figure skating – is the opportunity to share experiences.
I emphasize, because the blog, and anyone else with two brain cells to rub together, has said this for years. This is how sane athletes on social media market themselves.
Share experiences. Not share your personal life. Share experiences.
Not share your fake sex life. Not share your fake sex life some more. Not recast the part and then drag that faked sex life through the streets (literally). Not share your cooked up meltdowns. Not share your fake platonic passion some more. Not make an exhibitionistic jerk-off spectacle of yourself on social media while pretending that squeezing some other girl's ass on facebook helps protect your little girl.
Uh huh.
Not share your family restaurant - but be sour about it because you and your family are too good to try.
Not share your faked sex life again. Not share your faked will they or won't they dynamic for the umpteenth time. And most of all, not talking about yourselves.
It's not TALKING ABOUT YOURSELVES.
It's sharing experiences. You don't even have to share actual experiences. You can openly create experiences specifically to share. No need to open a window on your private life or even key parts of your sports life.
But who is Alex dating?
Who is Maia dating?
What about the desperate times?
Does either ever wish they had a non-sibling partner?
Where are their parents?
We're not missing out on Alex and Maia's personalities, we're not missing out on any relationship dynamic that's appropriate to share with fans, and we're not missing out on their chemistry as siblings. It's all there when they share experiences. These experiences are small slices of skating life taking place in hotel corridors, an airport, or bus. It's not some tell-all, up-close-and-personal forensic examination.
What a wonderful option, as opposed to, you know, creating a fake LIFE while insisting in mainstream media that it's your real life. What a great alternative to a marketing scheme based on mocking, scapegoating, and scamming the public that supports your sport, thus revealing your actual attitude towards that public, which is superiority. What a clear rebuttal to the patronizing message implied in every profile, every public breath you take, which is that your deviant marketing practices are the only way.
That's just insulting. Don't blame us for your crazy.
And, what a splendid alternative to recruiting star struck, erstwhile journalists into serving as your personal gatekeepers and fellow scammers.
As the Shibs do things (and as Moore-Towers Moscovitch do it in more random fashion) we get to enjoy their "personas" while also enjoying the "personas" of other high profile skaters such as Jeff Buttle, Mao Asada, Ashley Wagner - hell, even Brian Boitano was featured. Xavier Fernandez, let's not forget him. And, recently, Moore-Towers Moscovitch have been included. If Tessa and Scott "marketed themselves" the same way, we'd enjoy the chemistry, enjoy the dynamic, and the rest would be belong to them. They'd still be able to push Lindt chocolate, Body Butter, Toyota, Audi, etc.
Seeing as they ARE interested in marketing themselves, to say the least. We're not ambushing them at home or stalking them. This is an alternative that doesn't involve fucking people over.
Why do Scott and Tessa do it the other way?
I figure it has to be because everyone around them in their communities is so obsessed with their relationship, a more logical path never occurred to any of them. They're self-obsessed, and the people around Virtue and Moir view Tessa and Scott as their own real life Bella-and-Edward. And Virtue and Moir are too fascinated by themselves to expend any energy understanding anyone or anything outside themselves.
Chemistry isn't the only reason fans - more in the past than now - speculated about their relationship and fan fictioned it. They were cuing off Moirville's own unhealthy and kind of overwhelming obsession with Tessa and Scott's relationship.
Moirville has no capacity, nor apparent interest, in understanding anybody that isn't them, so of course since they're obsessed with Scott and Tessa to a degree that rises to real life fan fiction, obviously they're going to scapegoat fans as obsessed. And by marketing Scott and Tessa around sexual titillation, they have an excuse to wallow in their own long-running obsession with it.
Would fans really have speculated as much as they did if we weren't constantly being fed stuff on both sides of the platter - the overt, intimate attachment, "platonic" passion and emotional fervor Virtue and Moir both display and cause to be written about, and Scott's fake sex life with fake girlfriends? Those two ingredients in combination get fans speculating, because Scott and Tessa go out of their way to show the chemistry, TALK ABOUT the chemistry, and behave as who they are, and then on social media it's look at Scott's sex life with this other chick.
The Shibutanis' approach is what actual business savvy and professionalism looks like. It's not whatever Tessa Virtue thinks she's talking about.
The pollution from Virtue and Moir is pro-active, not defensive. They've primed the pump from day one. It's not our obsession with their relationship, it's their own community's obsession with their relationship and celebrity that has driven this debacle.
Plain and simple - Moirville sees VM as a commodity. It's not about sharing as you stated above. And really it is a shame. I can totally understand not wanting to be on social media - fine but then why a six part reality series during an Olympic year on a non-sports channel..this is not about documentating their journey - because really I think pictures would have been sufficient - it's about $$$ and exposure for Moirville...
ReplyDeleteBut the thing is - sharing is good BUSINESS. It's not as if Scott and Tessa have chosen marketing over sharing. Sharing experiences IS marketing. It's how professionals do it. The Shibs clearly enjoy the media side; it's a real interest for them as much or more on the production side as the on-camera side. But they've taken this interest and it's become their p.r. and their marketing tool. It's a great one, the best kind, because it grew out of their authentic enthusiasm.
DeleteBut of course, this approach mainly features Maia and Alex and other skaters, as you point out. They're not pulling the train for their whole community and extended family. Their parents and their parents' businesses aren't piggybacking onto these projects, and their community isn't elbowing their way into the spotlight either.
That's why the post title is "Scott and Tessa prefer to be whores." They haven't made a choice between buddying up with fans and marketing to fans. The Shibs aren't buddying up. The Shibs are a couple of class acts who are in a performance-oriented sport and this is how they present themselves outside the rink. It's marketing too. They're building something with this. I'm sure at some point we'll see them have non-recreational involvement with media production at some level. They're building relationships and creating connections. It's business.
What Tessa and Scott are doing is perverted. It's not business. Just look at the sex-obsession of it. Of course they are all about turning it around, but it's their obsession, not fan obsession. Fans are currently just about obsessed with skating and scoring, and all the shamming on earth, and even this reality show, is not distracting from the skating and scoring discussion. The reality show is pretty much awaited with dread. Let's see if we can choke down still more offensiveness from Virtue Moir with our fandom intact despite whatever is in this mess that we can never unsee.
Scott and Tessa's marketing is sex sex sex. On the most juvenile level. It's all dressed up with oh the bond, oh the caring, but when they jerk fans around with that and the unspoken question "Will Scott and Tessa ever ACT on this bond? Who the fuck sustains an intimate platonic partnership at this degree of intensity after 17 years" and then jerk fans the other way with whoever has volunteered herself to be Scott's girlfriend while she's waiting to be discovered by show business or with the ambition of using this gig to upgrade her romantic options and connect with more guys she considers she has coming - guys famous enough, rich enough, status enough - that's what we've got. This sham looks like them, it doesn't look like us. It's not target marketing - it's a mirror straight back at them, every bit of it, and they're perverted and obsessed.
And then the best part is the blanket of sanctimony they throw over the whole thing.
But Moirville is sex obsessed. That's why the sham looks the way it does.
"But Moirville is sex obsessed. That's why the sham looks the way it does."
DeleteThey most certainly are. It's like they cannot stand the thought of anyone thinking that Scott isn't getting laid by a woman. It may not be the only reason, and probably isn't, but I do wonder if homophobia in Moirville is playing into this aspect of the sham.
This entry is spot-on. I've been a VM fan since they were juniors and my love for their skating has been sorely tested with all their asinine shenanigans. I happen to know everything said on this blog about their personal lives is true. They are married and have a young daughter. I've been puzzled for years about why they do this. Everything about it is gross, patronizing and self-obsessed. The theory that it's on Moirville makes more sense than anything else that has been speculated as far as reasons why.
Delete8:56 - you mention the privacy they say they want by not being on social media. For someone who claims no presence on social media, Scott Moir sure is visible - but with a fake girlfriend. Since 2008, they have made certain there is a track-record of Scott's activities with the fake GF. Outings, vacations, competitions, etc. Meanwhile, there is never anything about the real Scott Moir and the real Tessa Virtue anywhere. Never. That in itself points to how fake all the postings are with the fake GF. I mean really, what person who really wants a private personal life hurries home from a vacation to post PUBLIC photos of his romantic vacation? Only when it's a cover/fake.
OC, you're right. This is not on the fans, it's on them and their grandiose view of themselves.
They've been doing this now for about 5-6 years? The fans have been mocked and patronized. But Moirville (and most importantly, fake GF looking for attention) is about to get rewarded with their very own TV series.
I wonder if VM believe that this TV series will establish once-for-all their fake personas? (Not married, involved with separate SO's, the single life-style, etc.)
It would be the height of irony if immediately after that series airs (full of big, gross lies) something happens that outs VM. Also once-for-all.
This is a good spot to mark that P.J. Kwong claimed Scott probably wasn't aware that his photos, such as the one of him kissing Cassandra, were being posted on social media. That she didn't see the purpose of him doing it on purpose.
DeleteRight there P.J. Kwong is saying these things: that those images are his real personal life. She knows it's not. Unless she thinks he's cheating with Cassandra Hilborn, she knows it's not his real personal life. But according to what she's saying, Scott Moir kisses a fake girlfriend but isn't aware this is then published on her social media accounts and the accounts of other Moir connections? He's just running around kissing chicks who aren't his wife for his own entertainment?
PJ Kwong is basically a publicity flack, but she knows that Scott and Tessa are married and have a baby, and she pretended that Scott wasn't responsible for the sham output on social media.
Homophobia may play a part but the tone and content of the sham goes beyond that to straight up vicarious experience and role playing. They're sex obsessed, not just homophobic, and it must be exciting for them to watch Scott "legally" cheat on social media and egg it on. It's their little walk on the wild side and it's a weird way to get off - this is their brother, neighbor's son, former schoolmate.
DeleteI also think they must love it when the blog and the blog comments wax disgusted with the TMI sham images because that's their opportunity to do it more. They HAVE to! This is more than homophobia, it's perversion.
The content by the girlfriends, both Jessica and Cassandra, screamed insecurity. Everything they wrote was pitched to make sure we knew Scott Moir was the most "fulfilling" boyfriend ever. They could hardly function without him around.
This is all shit none of us needs in our face, not even when it's fake. ESPECIALLY when it's fake, because then not only do we get TMI in the images, we get TMI about Moirville. I seriously don't need to know Alma's, Carol's or other Moirs' tastes in this area, nor what excites Scott's friends in this department. I don't need to know that their own relative/buddy/local celebrity acting out in this way gets them off.
"I happen to know everything said on this blog about their personal lives is true. They are married and have a young daughter. I've been puzzled for years about why they do this. "
DeleteHow do you know this stuff is true? I ask, because if you got it from a "sekret source," what did the sekret source say was the reason?
It seems weird that there are so many people who know the facts that V/M are married and have a child, but no one knows the real reason for why they carry on the sham -- everyone just speculates reasons. Why aren't people asking their sources for the reason? Isn't that the natural follow-up when someone tells you the real truth? Why is there any need to speculate on the reasons for the sham?
VM did say reasons years ago when they started. It was for "privacy" issues.
DeleteI'm assuming the blogger has speculated about the reasons because looking back it's pretty obvious VM are not as big on privacy as they pretended. And they aren't teenagers anymore either, so what's the big deal with continuing this charade for that supposed reason? Their social media (and now TV series) antics belie the privacy reason, not to mention the fact that LOTS of people know the truth, and VM know darn well lots of people know.
I agree there must be other reasons that are compelling to them. But "privacy" is an excuse.
It seems weird that there are so many people who know the facts that "V/M are married and have a child, but no one knows the real reason for why they carry on the sham -- everyone just speculates reasons. Why aren't people asking their sources for the reason? Isn't that the natural follow-up when someone tells you the real truth? Why is there any need to speculate on the reasons for the sham?"
DeleteBecause they say it's for privacy and we can see it's not. That is the reason they gave and give out, and component reasons, like not wanting to be second guessed. By whom? The FANS? They've got London and Ilderton second guessing them, if anyone is (and I don't know if anyone is), they've got the skating community and the grapevine. They are not protected from the stress and second guessing of people up in their business. This is only an "official" secret; it's not a real secret.
Fans second guess their asses all the time right now without officially knowing anything and it doesn't seem to stress their ass one bit.
The problem with the sham is the number of people who already know and how, even without shamming, fans are the most easily managed simply because Scott and Tessa control all access. The media doesn't ask what they don't want asked, press conferences after skates aren't the place for questons like that so they're safe there, and every other piece of media exposure they've received they've gone after it themselves or they've set the terms.
The sham is pretty old at this point and it appears to me that it has evolved. They look for reasons to continue shamming even when the supposed original reasons (Olympic spotlight, gave Skate Canada something to do, protect them from pressure, etc. etc.) didn't exist anymore, even when they decided to go ahead and have a child. They want to sham and then find the rationale. Right now it's almost as if they're escalating the sham so they have a reason not to come clean after Sochi, so they'll have to "wait a little bit" as Tessa said in the interview with Russian fans. It's perfectly possible that they continue to sham now because they have shammed already and don't want to admit they have, not while they're in the spotlight. They can use that "protection" excuse all day long, considering the number of people who've involved themselves publicly in the hoax and who would be stuck with their hands in the cookie jar when Scott and Tessa admitted the facts. So best involve even MORE people. It's a big circle, that's what it looks like to me in terms of the dynamic that keeps it going. The sex stuff is perverted and is just who Moirville seems to be. I'd love to do posters of Scott lying on top of Jessica or yanking Cassandra's skirt or bending her back on the golf course and run a bumper saying something like Scott at work protecting his daughter. When you tell yourself that's why you're doing what you're doing you're long gone.
Not to mention, people who are serious about their privacy don't take the thing they're protecting - their relationship - and use it to rattle people's cages and bait fans for attention. They do. It's not so precious if they use it as a hook, tease the possibility to get fans sitting up, then drop a sham bomb. That's a bunch of things, but protecting your privacy it's not.
DeleteWhat about that period of time immediately after the Olympics where it looked like Scott was expecting a reveal? I keep remembering that interview V/M did with the Canadian womens hockey team, where Scott responded "not yet" to one of the relationship questions, but Tessa immediately followed up with "it's been 13 years...." suggesting that "not yet" was never going to happen. It seemed like Scott was looking forward to the reveal, but Tessa was firmly against it, even before she got pregnant. What was that all about?
Delete@6:15, what that was all about is what oc says in the comment right before yours:
Delete[their relationship - and use it to rattle people's cages and bait fans for attention. They do. It's not so precious if they use it as a hook, tease the possibility to get fans sitting up, then drop a sham bomb.]
At the very same time they were saying those things you mention from the time period right after the Olympics, they were dropping sham bombs. At that time Scott and Jessica were running mirror facebook sites, continually dropping photos, supposed lovey-dovey posts, and posing couple-like at various events.
In other words, the way they handled this issue then is the same way they still do things now. Tease and Scott rattle cages in spite of the fact that fans are NOT carrying on shipper discussions anywhere nor publicly passing the time speculating about VM's relationship. Scott and Tessa bring it up (or they arrange for the interviewers to bring it up) and there's some kind of tease. Then almost immediately afterwards there's a sham bomb.
No matter that it may sometimes *seem* they're setting up for a reveal, as long as Scott is playing the role of BF with someone other than Tessa, they are doing nothing but setting up teases and rattling cages.
Compared to 4-5 years ago, the fandom has mostly been ignoring all VM's sham bombs. I hope this trend continues. I love it when the fandom hardly reacts. Let VM carry on their idiotic hoax. The fans have been focusing on the skating and I predict they will keep doing so regardless of Tessa and Scott's sham bombs and cage rattlings.
6:15 - There were people around them who expected Scott and Tessa to reveal at some point after the Olympics (not at some unspecificed stage in our post-neolithic era, but before now).
DeleteI think it's possible that Scott saying "not yet, anyway" and "I'm trying" and various occasional hints pointed to the possibility/expectation that he and Tessa were going to come clean sooner rather than later. Furthermore, when she was first pregnant there was no way they knew her pregnancy would develop so that she'd be able to conceal it and still make public appearances, although some of those public appearances begged the question to a ridiculous degree, considering her altered size.
They like to play both ends against the middle, and in the case of post-Vancouver, I suspect they knew they might have to come clean, so they kept both things in play - the possibility that their romantic status might change, and the sham.
If Jessica and Scott had ever looked remotely plausible as a couple, if Scott had ever behaved as if he could stand her (when in her vicinity on video, versus still camera, he acted near-repelled), Scott's then-habit of saying "Not yet", or telling an interviewer that his and Tessa's past didn't preclude a future romantic involvement, would have struck people as horrifically insensitive. He's the worst boyfriend in the world, and it made Jessica look desperate with her seemingly cheery dingbat willful obliviousness.
But since most fans weren't fans of Jessica/Scott, Scott's hints just got fans excited. There was no downside. If they did come clean, there were those hints on the record. As they didn't, it simply falls along the pattern of jerking fans in both directions.
And has been pointed out by several people in the comments, the sham showing off does make Scott look ridiculously insecure.
*applause*
ReplyDeleteThis stood out too: "Perhaps the most important guideline that we keep in mind, is that it has always been important to us is that our social media presence be very authentic. We really strive to be ourselves. Advice: Be yourself."
Wait, I'm confused. It's not more important to TELL people you're being authentic? To literally reiterate it so much it's absolutely comical? That you're the most authentic people who were ever authentic in the history of the entire world of authentic authentic-ness?
And open. Open open open. The door is wide open. We're just livin life, and this camera crew follows us around in our normal life. That's why there was an entire sitcom's worth of camera set up in the Hilborn house on Thanksgiving. It's just field cameras grabbing real stuff. We're genuine, genuine genuine. It's all out there.
Delete11:01 - what if we got all philosophical with it, or Freudian, and that what Tessa and Scott, on a subtextual level, mean, is this is who we are: Liars without conscience. We're so inside out we've twisted the meaning of the language. Reality is what we tell you it is.
DeleteThat this is who they are. They certainly seem allergic to the truth. They're always digging in deeper. They've ducked opportunities to come clean even when some people around them were sure they planned to come clean at that juncture. They're natural born liars. It's like skating to them.
It also takes a degree of stupidity I don't really want to look at at this moment. Of course to them, their stupidity looks like brilliance. Lewis Carroll would have fun with them but it might be too overstated even for him.
"That's why there was an entire sitcom's worth of camera set up in the Hilborn house on Thanksgiving. It's just field cameras grabbing real stuff. We're genuine, genuine genuine. It's all out there."
DeleteLOL
The trailer the network produced and the few pictures released so far have already exhibited the amount of lying to expect. Scott hanging out at Cassandra's for Thanksgiving, as if he has no family of his own. Btw, simultaneously, a friend of Tessa's released a photo of Tessa with group of girlfriends supposedly also during Thanksgiving. That's right, these guys hang out with separate friends on this special family-holiday, in a community where literally hundreds of family-members live. But nope, Scott and Tessa were with friends and/or SO's, not any Virtues or Moirs (*rolleyes*).
Let's see, what else. An allusion to difficulties with connection (yeah right). Tessa having a meltdown in full makeup (yeah right). Hanging out at a pool also in full makeup, expensive earrings and designer crystal-encrusted bathing suit (yeah right). Scott's voiceover telling us Tessa doesn't have a boyfriend (she's single and according to her friends' recent photos, her social life consists of hanging out with the girlfriends). Yeah right.
Oh, and that interview they did with Pyette. Full of "open, genuine, real" blah blah blah, along with opposite body language everywhere (lies, lies, lies).
And these were all just teasers. The real thing sounds like a delight of mockery, lies and bad acting.
Hmmm - Canadian Thanksgiving is really a day spent with family - especially a family like the Moirs - where Scott would be hanging around with the grandparents (if still alive), brothers, nieces...for lords sake Scott routinely wears a poppy - for remembrance day - so you know Thanksgiving is important to him..so you know how staged Thanksgiving is when he is at the Hilborns...and Tessa's friends also come from large families...so again the staging...
DeleteIt's striking that the Shibutanis have such an active social media presence and the fans know NOTHING about their personal lives. Nor, thank God, anything about their parents or other family members. And yet, they've managed to acquire a huge fan-following; there's a wonderful and positive dynamic between fans-Shibutanis. I don't see anyone beating down their doors demanding to know anything personal. Heck, even if there were a fan-following that were interested in that sort of thing, the Shibutanis are handling things so well that any fringe weirdness would not interfere with their appropriate PR.
DeleteVM, on the other hand, have allowed all things personal to be front and center since day one. But if from the beginning their attitude had been "Who cares what people think or speculate, we will be ourselves" it would have killed all the OTT speculations in the bud. They still could do that at any moment. Just be truthful while at the same time refusing to answer personal questions. The thing is, do they want to do that. The answer appears to be a loud No. They (or their nearest and dearest) love all the inappropriate focus on personal-relationship. They bring it on themselves.
That's because their nearest and dearest have had an inappropriate focus on the personal relationship.
DeleteOC - you should check out the latest interview from PJ Kwong - she interviewed Rebecca Babb - ice dance coach with Paul McIntosh at the Kitchener-Waterloo Figure Skating Club. She actually competed with her brother in ice-dance and has known Tessa and Scott. The interview covers a variety of topics but it's a decent insight...
DeleteIt does. I'm trying to remember if it was ever said Tessa's mother was with her in Kitchener when she and Scott relocated, because Babb names the family Tessa stayed with and Scott stayed with the family of the guy Babb ended up marrying. She might not be on top of all the versions of their history they peddle. At one point they decided Kate also moved to Michigan but I think once they realized Scott had said many times he and Tessa only had each other in Kitchener, and how young they were, they thought it best to claim Kate was there too. Not sure, however.
DeleteSome of what Babb said was interesting. Her long pause about what Scott and Tessa need to do to win a second Olympic gold - for a second I wondered if she were thinking - there's nothing they can do, it's a done deal. She finally said skate clean and be passionate. P.J. Kwong rightly said Scott and Tessa are skating bigger. They're both fans of Carmen - big fans, but talked about it in performance terms that were unhelpful (raw, etc.). And talked about how some people didn't receive it well. If it wasn't received well, I'd like to know how come a program built on nothing but choreographed skating skills wouldn't be received well by anyone in official figure skating. That's what ice dance is supposed to be. They didn't address it as skating.
I did find some of her remarks on the young Scott and Tessa very interesting. She remembers Scott's run of blade but as for everything else he's become as an ice dancer, she says that came later, he didn't have it at the time - meaning his strength, his incredible partnering of Tessa, etc. She remembers Tessa as being pretty special and as a huge talent, "hauling him around the ice". She also remembers that they were comfortable together immediately and could communicate in the intimate way ice dancers need to communicate, which usually takes young kids a long time (most young partners hate looking at each other) but didn't take them any time. That stands somewhat in contrast to their stories that they didn't talk in the first years.
OC - this is anon at 5:19 pm - thanks for your feedback on the Babb interview. I think the reason Babb needed to pause and reflect on what VM needed to do to repeat as Oympic Champions is because she knows that it's an uphill battle and that they are going in as underdogs and in order for them to win - they will need to be at 130%. But you are possibly right that perhaps she thinks DW winning is a done deal after the scoring at last year's Worlds...in general when it comes to sports, guys tend to peak at a later age than female athletes - so it doesn't surprise me that during the early years - Tessa was more of a natural talent and that Scott came into his own a little later - which is totally normal. But she was totally complimentary of him in terms of the present (specifically footwork and partnering skills).
DeleteLastly, I thought it was refreshing to hear that if Babb had one piece of advice for young skaters - would be that they would want to come to the arena, see their friends and do what they love to do irregardless of the level...which is a positive way to end an interview...
" I think the reason Babb needed to pause and reflect on what VM needed to do to repeat as Oympic Champions is because she knows that it's an uphill battle and that they are going in as underdogs and in order for them to win - they will need to be at 130%. But you are possibly right that perhaps she thinks DW winning is a done deal after the scoring at last year's Worlds..."
DeleteIt certainly feels like it's a done deal for DW in Sochi. I feel like when the question has come up as of late, there's something lingering there in the silence between the question and the answer and then within the answer itself. Maybe it's a realization on a subconscious level that all is lost, but a conscious wish or desire to still want to grasp on to there being *something* that VM can do at this point. A plea with the universe, that maybe if they're 200% perfectly clean and are 300% on and passionate and into it, then maybe, just maybe, maybe, maybe, there's still some tiny sliver of a chance left. It's like bargaining in the five stage of grief.
Who knows what it actually is, but it just seems an impossible task for VM at the moment. I thought for a couple of weeks that they were still in this, but the last week and a half changed that. DW are going to steamroll to gold, and given Russia's own judging hijinks, I think they'll get the silver for BS, if not bronze for IK as well. There is absolutely no correlation between the skating and the scoring right now. VM will outskate everyone in Sochi but be left off the podium because this isn't a sport at all and it's just about who can political maneuver into medal position.
Wanted to go back to an earlier post in this thread --
Delete"But if from the beginning their attitude had been "Who cares what people think or speculate, we will be ourselves" it would have killed all the OTT speculations in the bud."
Right now I'd say P/I are presenting a wonderful example of exactly how this process manifests itself among fans, suggesting one way in which they're not only not copycats, but may be the anti-V/M. V/M's profile was higher and buzzier by an early point given their instant senior success, but I don't doubt that their fans would have been equally happy to respect boundaries while recognizing their status for what it was. It has never been about privacy for V/M but if they ever believed that it was, it was driven entirely by self-interest on the part of Moirville and certain SC higher-ups.
By her description of her own reaction to her young daughter's skating, she certainly gave a bit of a look at how immediately invested a skater parent can get in their child's skating, even if their child isn't a big talent. P.J. seemed to have had more of a relaxed attitude towards the skating of her own kid.
DeleteI agree "fix was in" was my shortcut way of saying that VM need to be 130% - they're going to have to do more than DW, in your face more, and it's an uphill battle because of the DW scoring shenanigans. I do wonder why DW are a sacred cow.
Her anecdote about Danny Moir, how behind the scenes of some event where little Scott and Tessa skated, Danny said he was getting out of the sport because he couldn't keep up with how good his brother was becoming, was a story Danny must have kept repeating because I read it later, too, when junior VM were being profiled as up and coming champions.
oc
10:01, I, too, feel so much unsaid when this question comes up about winning in Sochi.
DeleteIn the 2012 Worlds short dance, 77 points to DW in the flight before the final flight, they did it in the short dance. The short dance is where it will happen, because oh the pattern, oh the key point, and let's just pump up GOE and before you know it, four points. Then in the free - oh we're fair, it's going to be much closer, just a point, but they won it in the short! The short is so technical, who can cry foul.
The 77 at Worlds 2013 is the flag. Then it happened in the short at CoR as well - W&P going down to 61 or so, B&S, who should have been lower than W&P, 7 points higher. Then W&P won the free, but too late.
That's how this is getting done. It will take some doing for anyone to put DW's mediocre short program above Scott and Tessa's, but I have faith.
oc
OC - I think Tracey Wilson is going to need a lot of vodka in Sochi to get through it for NBC and Marie-France Dubreil/Patrice Lauzon will also need to be liquored up during the French broadcast...hell I can't even fathom the Finnish couple who invented the Finnstep - what they will be thinking...if you think Scott Moir wears his heart on his sleeve - then it was heartbreaking to see Nathalie Pechelat on the podium at TEB. She knew that IK were bumped up...
DeleteI think I/K knew I/K were bumped up. They pretty much ducked every question about getting high TES and beating the French. Not in a self-serving way, but sort of "We know what happened there so we're just going to talk around it."
Deleteoc
This Olympic cycle was not strong in terms of programs. It's a bit disheartening to think what may happen after Sochi. We are inevitably going to lose VM and PB....I can see WP staying for another year or two but no way for another entire cycle. CL will retire after another year or so...the Shibs and PI will be the big question marks - I can see both teams going for another 2 years or so - but I am not convinced that they can go another Olympic cycle due to the amount of training required and if they don't have the right training environment - they may decide to move on...Hubbell/Donohue and Chock/Bates are in the same boat as WP...So my take is let's enjoy all of these teams since really we have no idea how long they will be around for...as for the Russian teams - it's hard for me to predict but IK may not be around for 2018...
DeleteOC at 9:01 this was IK's answer
DeleteEV: What made you happy more: to defeat the French or to get higher technical score than Virtue/Moir?
NK: We were much happier that we skated very well at two events in a row.
I think this is an excellent, diplomatic answer seeing as they are big fans of VM and used to train with PB. It was a stupid, baiting question. I don't see any indication that IK "know" they were bumped up.
"CL will retire after another year or so...the Shibs and PI will be the big question marks - I can see both teams going for another 2 years or so - but I am not convinced that they can go another Olympic cycle due to the amount of training required and if they don't have the right training environment - they may decide to move on..."
DeleteHuh? Both the Shibs and P/I are young teams who are the perfect age to peak at the 2018 Olympic Games. As to training environments, when V/M and D/W move on, the Shibs will likely be the top team in Canton, and P/I are flourishing at the DSC.
Anon at 11:23 am - I'll partially retract my comment about the Shibs and PI. Yes they are young teams but they are not THAT young. Yes they are both strong teams and theoretically should peak at the 2018 games but call it a gut feeling - I am not sure if physically they can keep going for another 4 years (ie injuries)...Actually I would apply the same logic to IK as well...
DeleteBoth P/I and the Shibs have been relatively healthy throughout their career, and come on, if Tessa Virtue can skate another four years after Vancouver - during which time she had a second surgery and A BABY - there is no reason why many of those younger teams couldn't go another four years if that's what they want.
DeleteAnd what do you mean by "THAT young?" In 2018, Alex Shibutani will be 26 (Scott Moir's current age) and Maia will be 23. Mitchell Islam will be 27 and Alexandra Paul will be 26. That's pretty par for the course in ice dancing. V/M winning in Vancouver at such a young age was more the exception than the rule and that hasn't really changed over the last four years. Any team can suffer a career-ending injury, but if the Shibs and P/I follow good on-ice and off-ice training regimens they can put their bodies in peak physical condition by 2018. A person's twenties are better for that then their teenage years anyway because they've finally passed puberty and all of the growth/hormonal changes that come with that.
I agree that athletes peak in their mid 20s and yes both the Shibs and PI can skate until 2018. My doubt is whether with the lifts being executed in ice-dance, the guys can avoid lower back problems. When a David Pelletier has indicated on more than one occasion that the ice dance lifts in terms of biomechanics are actually harder for the guy than the pairs lifts (straight arm position) - you wonder long term...
DeleteTrue. Then again, Charlie White does not use lift proper technique when hauling Meryl up and into lifts and somehow he's avoided major back problems.
DeleteV/M's FD is such a piece of crap this year. How on earth was this okayed by their Fed? What happened to all the good people who used to advise them? Where's Marijane Stong, etc.? I can't believe they would think this was okay.
DeleteEvery time I watch their FD I feel like smashing something. They knew the politics weren't in their favor. Why did they have to effing hand the gold medal away? What is wrong with them?!?!?!
DeleteThey actually had a lot of momentum in their favor: a lot of people thought Carmen was robbed and Tarasova, Zhulin, Averbukh, and Staviski said so. If only they had hit it out of the park... I don't understand them at all. There is a very interesting interview with Platov on FSU. He describes how intense it is to go for a second Olympic gold (he also does not understand how they can stay in the same group as DW):
Delete"To make Oksana come to the practices Tatiana Anatolievna Tarasova and I would come to Oksana's place with flowers, with trees.... What didn't we do to convince her. We were trying our best to calm her, but Oksana still could grab Tarasova and shout `Will we win that thing or not! Tell me now!!!!'. Tarasova would say `come to the rink, work, don't sit home and cry. Then you will. It was a hard time. The beginning of the season was a cathastrophy. We wanted to go back from the `Memorial' to the last year's `Arabian Passion'. It was a great programme. My favourite. While the `Memorial' didn't work at all.
...
You see, in 1994 had we won a bronze medal we would say `Thank you, what had we done to deserve it'. I'm joking, but in general we didn't expect to win. But here, for 4 years we were pressed with the thought `we must win those Olympics, we must win the Olympics...' and when the time came we were going crazy with the pressure we were under. The others were fighting for the medals and were thrilled, for us a silver would be a nightmare, an end of our lives. When my pupils tell me they are nervious I tell them `When you reach the highs the whole world is set against you and dreams to kick you off the pedestal - then you'll be nervious'. I think the whole Nagano was shaking with me when I was preparing to the skates. I was walking in the park, but the second the thoughts of the skates came back into my mind I wanted to commit a suicide."
Yeah, but it looks like with this FD, they aren't even trying. Tessa claims she has an entire list of FDs -- why couldn't she have picked something else? This is just a dud.
DeleteHere's what I suggest - instead of venting about why you think this fd is a dud, do what is constantly requested of the DW fans, explain why in skating particulars. The quality of the skating per CoP, the layout, linking moves and transitions.
DeleteAnd before you do that, I suggest you really look at it.
Agreed with OC; there is a recent article interviewing former ice dancer Maxim Stavinksi, where he basically states that V/M should scrap their FD because it wasn't "bringing anything new", yet he doesn't go into any analyis about technical elements or difficulty. When you have former competitors sprouting this shit, then everybody accepts it at face value that winning is all about theatrical perofrmance and packaging, not athletic achievement.
Delete"When you have former competitors sprouting this shit, then everybody accepts it at face value"
DeleteIt's no wonder opinions are all over the place as to what is great ice-dancing.
DW have not brought anything new to the table since day 1. In fact, they have not even advanced their skills or difficulty. They do the same thing every year, set to different bombastic music to carry them through. It could also be argued that their skills have regressed. I don't see anyone griping about DW's same-old same-old.
VM have brought back (for them) the classical, romantic type of program. It is in fact new because their elements are always tweaked to fit the program, and compared to the last time they did this style (Mahler) they have greatly improved in every area - power, speed, skating skills, expression, etc. Just because it's a soft, classical program does not make it a repetition of any previous VM program. It is certainly not worthless. Everybody needs to get a grip.
Just for kicks, I watched V/M's 2009 TEB FD - it was the first outing of Mahler that season. As I watch it now, I am amazed at how their speed has improved since then, especially in their footwork sequences. The twizzles and spins are night and day improved, not only in difficulty, but in the speed of the rotations and the positions they hit. Dare I say, Mahler almost looks junior-ish compared to what they are doing now (but still head and shoulders above anything at the time, and certainly compared to anything that D/W are doing NOW).
DeleteI keep looking at this FD from two different perspectives. One is the by the CoP view. The other is the bs judging POV, based upon recent conversations on FSU. This is a solid program in regards to the CoP. I do have concerns about timing and executing the lifts at this point.
DeleteFrom the BS point of view, that lower level judge is getting her ideas from somewhere. At this point, I honestly wonder how much the damned CoP actually matters at this point in time and if we're just going on nonsense factors like being tight or loose with the music (whatever the hell that means), "grabbing the audience", "overall impression", and other bs things that aren't actually in the CoP. If the program isn't actually being judged by the CoP, with the levels, GOE, and PCS all being scored according to the bs not-real criteria, then how does the program hold up?
This is a program that should score very well under CoP if they're actually using the CoP. If they're not using the CoP, who knows how it ends up. Will VM be tight enough with the music? Will they sizzle enough? Will the program be accessible to the audience and thus able to grab them? Will their costumes be glamorous enough? No one seems to be able to tell me how much or why these things matter since they're not in the CoP, so I have no idea how to call it with how this program actually fairs using this alternate, unpublished scoring criteria.
"No one seems to be able to tell me how much or why these things matter since they're not in the CoP, so I have no idea how to call it with how this program actually fairs using this alternate, unpublished scoring criteria."
DeleteYou may not know, but Marina certainly does. Remember how Marina has always described programs in terms of how she wants the performance to make the audience feel? It's always been that way, all the way back to G&G's 88 programs. She's no fool. You can talk about levels, GOE, and PCS all day -- at the end, it *is* about how the audience is left feeling, because figure skating is partly an artistic performance.
Great skating is necessary to create the magical spell that captivates the audience. I guarantee that if both V/M and D/W skated to their ultimate, the audience would be captured by V/M because their pure skating would be able to convey a mood/message without anything out of place. No rocking of blades, no ugly positions to jar the audience out of the moment. However, if V/M don't "skate with their souls" as Marina has said, no amount of technically perfect skating can save things.
Judges are humans, not computers. If you had just a bunch of computers judging, then yeah -- breaking everything down into terms of levels, GOE, and PCS makes sense. Just program the criteria in and the computers will spit out a response. Humans are going to see all of those things, but also be influenced by the big picture -- which program is grabbing the audience (and judges are part of the audience). If this weren't a reality, costume choice, color, etc., wouldn't be a big deal -- and yet it is.
Marina knows all of this, and takes it seriously. If she takes it seriously, I have to believe that this "bs" stuff matters.
DW's SD is horrible. I have watched ice dance for years and that is the worst interpretation of these dances I have ever seen from a top 10 team. It really is awful. They just rush through every move and barely anything in that program resembles a foxtrot or quickstep. They are rehashing Die Fledermaus, which was never a real waltz anyways. THEY CAN'T DANCE.
DeleteI feel sorry for PB who can not only skate and dance but do both of those things well. They are head and shoulders above DW and should be the ones closest to VM. I kind of wish they would toe pick and skip and all that nonsense, since speed is all that matters even if it comes from artificial means. They would be so much faster if they did those things, but they still don't have the political backing of DW so I guess things are hopeless for them. This sport is such garbage.
10:51, great minds think alike :D
Deletehttp://youtu.be/6f9W6nHppAI
12:45: I'm assuming this is Canadablue...awesome work, as always! V/M could have sat back on their Olympic title, but instead, they've continued to improve and push the boundaries, yet the judges have thrown them under the bus since Vancouver in favour of a non-skating, sloppy team like D/W, who have done nothing but regress since Vancouver. Disgusting.
DeleteYep, thanks 4:45! D/W version to follow, hopefully today.
DeleteMore new hires at SC: http://www.skatecanada.ca/AboutUs/NewsDetails/tabid/2157/sni%5B2797%5D/3071/language/en-US/Default.aspx
ReplyDeleteHmmm...perhaps Mike Slipchik will be vacating his position after Sochi...It looks like Patricia Chafe has never really left figure skating really and her business involved helping understanding of COP snd implementing it correctly to compete. How rich is this...just before Sochi? And yet Wilkes is probably still on the payroll...and god knows what Barb MacDonald still does in terms of public relations...oieee
Delete"The third position on the Skate Canada executive team, expected to be filled in early January, will be a Chief Marketing Officer responsible for business development, communications, sponsorship, marketing, digital content and event management."
DeleteReally. And what will Debbi Wilkes' title then become. She never did marketing and business development when she had that title, she never did anything in her titles, all she did was wield a microphone and big foot all over the answers given by the people she interviewed, while mugging the camera lens. Maybe there's a title to cover that activity.
Will Barb be demoted, titlewise, to press liaison?
Its beyond belief. All these expensive positions and another to come. Yet don't see them adding sponsors every second day to pay for it. And the events are still pretty empty so they can't be cash cows. SC is completely out of control! Train wreck (or bankruptcy) coming! Nice job new CEO and President. Clearly brilliant business minds...NOT
ReplyDeleteInteresting interview with the male half of I/K; they worked with Cirque du Soleil acrobats this summer to improve their lifts. One thing that stuck out to me in his interview:
ReplyDelete"Roughly speaking, it is like climbing a tree. Little by little, it started working out on the floor. At first we didn't even think of doing it on the ice. We tried many different variants, tried to combine them in different ways, to create something ourselves. When we started putting in on the ice, we had many doubts. But step by step we came up with the best variant."
Climbing and clutching each other like mammals getting up a tree is a good way to describe D/W's lift technique.
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?90025-Nikita-Katsalapov-interview&p=4063457&viewfull=1#post4063457
I think he meant the process of creating the lifts was like climbing a tree. One step up at a time.
Delete12:48, VM might argue that the Shibs are a brother and sister and don't incite the same "intense interest", that P/I aren't as popular and to some, the chemistry isn't as palpable, so VM are "unique" - that's been their catch-all. The answer to all of this is being proactive. They know how to do that, God knows. Demonstrate, like the Shibs, how you engage with the fans. Don't address any other issues (Volosozhar and Trankov don't and they engage with fans all the time). Again, they control the questions put to them and the topics officially addressed, so that is not some huge issue. It is very easy to do p.r., marketing, personas, blah blah blah, proactively, even knowing your chemistry is a value add, and not make it about parading a fake account of your personal relationship around and a faked account of your private life. A key difference is I don't think the Shibs have much more of an agenda than establishing their public profile via this medium and also, gaining experience themselves in producing media - maybe with an eye towards getting into that after skating. It's all plus plus plus for the Shibs. Virtue and Moir & Co. seem to have many more agendas hitched to the sham, some of them arrogant, some of them ludicrous, some unprofessional, and the fans are the scapegoat for it.
ReplyDeleteoc
So how would people feel if they still hid the pregnancy and the child, but without doing the whole sham and fanfiction? Basically they would ask interviewers not to ask about their personal lives, deflect any questions about romance by saying it's nobody's business (but never lying that they are platonic), they would still assert their missed competitions in 2010-11 were due to her surgery (which is technically true, and skaters don't owe us explanation of every factor that goes into missing an event). There would be no Jessica or Cassandra or Fedor though, no fake stories about the rift and their childhood in Canton. Everything they'd say would be true, but they would hold back big parts of the truth. They would also share pictures and videos of their lives the way the Shibs and VT do, just omitting ones that have anything to do with being a couple or having a family. Their interviews would focus on their skating, and they wouldn't mention the shipper fans at all.
ReplyDeleteI mean, that would be really bizarre, but I'm curious what people think? Is the bad part the hiding, or the lying?
For me the bad part is the lousy way they've treated the public, and the gross way they've used their real relationship and real chemistry to mock the fans and intentionally try to make the fans feel bad, stupid and foolish.
DeleteThe bad part is also marketing a lot of lies as an actual look behind the scenes. Their book, their reality show. They want the public's attention, they want the public to buy into lies, and then they'll profit.
And, this blog began because of how Moirville ridiculed fans on social media. Constantly setting them up in mainstream media and laughing at them on social media.
I don't think the scenario you've outlined is bizarre at all. We're so used to discussing Scott and Tessa on the web we may forget that they don't publicly deal with any of this and don't have to. They haven't addressed the marriage or baby story (neither has the press - there's no acknowledgement it's even a rumor), they haven't addressed the scoring uproar with DW, they don't deal with anything in the fandom they choose to ignore. They can handle their marketing exactly as you describe and ignore any components of their lives they don't want to share. It's as you say, basically deliver the truth where appropriate, but don't share the full picture. Fans can draw their own conclusions (as they seem to do with skaters like V/T) and It works fine. Only Scott and Tessa have decided to be drama queens about it.
A bit late, but I'd like to chime in that, for me at least, it's definitely the lying*. I can't know without being surprised in that way, but I suspect I would even have zero problem with the scenario you outlined. I might even respect them for having kept their daughter out of the limelight, and not trying to capitalize on their fairytale story. As long as your scenario doesn't include still calling out to her cousins in the K&C.
Delete*And what impact that has had on their skating PR.
I don't understand that VM say their connection is a marketing tool but then this so-called documentary seems like it's going to be heavy into VM denying any romantic connection and also featuring Scott's fake romantic life. None of it makes any sense.
DeleteVM are heavy into playing both ends against the middle. They SAY this but act like THAT.
DeleteThat's what it's all about. The reality show may be about student her and rambunctuous friends and family him, but the visuals are all - don't they LOOK as if they ought to be together?
As someone in the comments section pointed out a number of times, and as I mentioned elsewhere, the book appeared to be telling a love story, then suddenly didn't. And fans are left with "What did I miss?"
You didn't miss anything. You're being played. The reality show is doing the same thing. Visuals of the two of them being adorable and affectionate and gaga. Dialogue about boyfriends and other visuals implying separate lives. It's all intentional.
This has been the case going back to 2010 and before. In 2010 Scott baited fans with "Monaco" for him and Tessa and then on Alma's wall we got Jessica in Monaco. They did the same thing skyping about Paris and then planning to deliver Jessica instead.
Then fans are supposed to feel crazy, or overinvested, or as if they were too quick to jump to conclusions due to their own desires and dreams.
That is bullshit. They were played.
P.S. - same thing with reality show. If they are truly platonic, why is there an entire reality show building off the interest in their chemistry and relationship? More to the point, if Scott and TESSA are truly interested in establishing themselves as platonic, and protecting their privacy, why are they so into mixed messages? Why the reality show. Why have Scott slobber all over Tessa verbally and physically, but then here comes facebook crap?
DeleteIt is INTENTIONAL. All of it. Fans are supposed to feel fucked up about it. They are being messed with on purpose.
"It is INTENTIONAL. All of it. Fans are supposed to feel fucked up about it. They are being messed with on purpose."
DeleteLooking at their PR history, I agree it looks like this.
What is their motivation for making fans feel stupid? Surely this attitude didn't come from any reputable marketing person/company.
It occurs to me the majority of junior-high bullies/mean cliques eventually grow up and look back with deep regret at their immature actions in making any other student feel like crap. If possible, they look for a way to apologize. Scott and Tessa are now in their mid-twenties, grown up enough to have experienced this epiphany of regret and to realize how terrible it is to make fun of any other human being and treat them like trash.
But instead of seeing these two "kids" mature into empathy and true generosity, we see them escalate this junior-high mean behavior that is intended to make a whole group of people feel foolish and stupid. Of course it's not only Tessa and Scott. This is also on the fake girlfriend and the families and friends all having fun thinking up ways to make fun of the fans.
I'm just glad not to be from Ilderton. What a horrible community.
If VM are platonic and have significant others and you know the figure skating community is interested in skaters' private lives - why the reality tv series...especially after Tessa was consistently getting slammed with David Pelletier on the skating boards...I can understand the Moirs - they don't shy away from the camera or microphone but I don't get the Virtues agreeing to this...
DeleteAnd I have to agree that there are obvious patterns to their PR history...If VM were part of a real sports organization - Moirville would have gone through media retraining period back in 2009.
What wasted energy and wasted opportunities to be great role models....
The reason seems to be the quickest and dirtiest way to get attention not just for Scott and Tessa, but their connections they "owe". That's a great bonding experience. We'll pay you back by sharing our experience with you, allowing you to participate - in mocking and setting up the public that supports our sport.
DeleteAny other way of promoting themselves doesn't seem to provide as many starring roles for their community and families. The roles the community plays also allows them to exercise an unwarranted but entrenched sense of superiority. The fact that the community needs this sort of participation and embraces it does make Scott and Tessa's "extended network" look horrible, I agree.
"The reason seems to be the quickest and dirtiest way to get attention not just for Scott and Tessa, but their connections they "owe". "
DeleteThis.
Not only payback for their connections, these people have shown their ass in the way they've responded to this blog. More than once the blog and many fans here in the comments (and btw, also in many pm's the fans see this stuff coming 100 km away) have called them out when it was apparent they were setting up the fans for one of their stings.
Like when Scott suddenly had an urge to interact with fans on his facebook, saying he had spent his birthday at his favorite place - Muskokas. Blog called him on it, expecting to be spammed with Jessica photos. Guess what, they didn't do the usual release of Scott-gf photos. Instead, a couple weeks later Jessica had a new profile picture that was obviously supposed to be the Muskokas birthday get-away. Another time was that Paris skyping, setting fans up to expect photos of Tessa-Scott all around Paris. Blog again called them on it, expecting that instead it would be photos of Scott-Jessica. Guess what,again nothing. Since then it's as if that skyping occasion didn't happen. But lo and behold, almost a year later they release one photo of Scott and Jessica at the Louvre. Jessica posing à la Hepburn, exactly as VM had pretended they were going to do with Tessa around Paris.
With the new pretend gf, instead of releasing a bunch of albums like they did with Jessica, I think they're saving a whole pile of photos for either a release of most of them all-at-once of different occasions, or else the TV series takes the place of all that. It could be Scott-gf at Muskokas for his birthday, at various other events plus all around Paris. Instead of facebook albums, this time they get it on film and they think they've circumvented being called on it beforehand. Of course, all of Moirville is in on the act, they all get to share the attention and the limelight. But underlying all their b.s. is also sticking it to the fans for calling them out on all the previous times they got caught setting up a sting. It's so pathetic.
The thing with the Moirs and the fake gfs and their connections all desperately wanting attention is how equally they want to pretend to be superior to those whose attention they seek. That's as low rent as it gets. Where else do we get a group this big who at every turn want to assure anyone paying attention that they're better than everyone else, demonstrate it by mocking the fandom at every opportunity and showing off their clique-ish hilarity, but then tripping over themselves for attention from this same public? I know they were doing it for a sponsor but look at Kate Virtue and Alma Moir both sobbing it up for P&G in that commercial. You know we're going to get both prayers and choking up in "Scott & Tessa" the reality show, which is the exacta of hypocrisy. If they're superior, why the hell do they want our attention? Yes, they need it to justify all that they do to fend OFF our attention, but seriously, it's very obvious everybody who has a share of Scott & Tessa's spotlight never wants it to end. It's the main thing they have going in their lives.
Delete5:14, and don't forget, that is the first and last time Scott actually acknowledged Happy Birthdays from fans he'd accepted onto his facebook by the hundreds, and it was a set up. That's all we need to know, and nothing has changed.
DeleteThese people see themselves as a commodity. Even a thank you has a price. They don't give anything of themselves free. If it's not a face to face encounter where they have to show those personas, it's transactional, end of. Maybe they'll figure out a way to sell us their thank you's.
That's not a joke, either.
And the safe rule of thumb is, no matter how nice Scott and Tessa are in "real life", any time they're engaging with fans they're setting fans up.
One of the many off-putting aspects of this hoax is how Scott and Tessa use actual aspects of their real selves, including the chemistry that fuels their relationship - and manipulate with it. Anything natural they possess, they also use with calculation. So, pretty much whenever they seem to put themselves out there, or extend themselves, or appear to relax, watch out.
I hope the message gets out, to V-M fans and the general public who will watch their reality-TV-special...
DeleteBeware. The following episode(s) feature Canada's sweethearts acting out their very own fanfiction. Enjoy the show. None of it is real.
Is it my imagination or does it look like Tessa is bulking up while Scott is getting leaner?
ReplyDeleteI think it's your imagination. IMO Tessa is looking thinner but very strong. Both Scott and Tessa look fabulous and in competitive shape.
DeleteAccording to the images I've seen from the stay exhibition number at TEB - Scott has definitely added mass to his upper body in particular his deltoids. I also think that they both look healthy.
DeleteSo TSL featured this link to a choreographer's take on this season's FDs....a whole bunch of jibberish about the performance and music cuts, nothing about actual technique. Oh, and perpetuating the myth that D/W have technically surpassed V/M. Um, ya right.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theskatinglesson.com/taking-stock-of-the-olympic-free-dances/
How do you know the author is a choreographer? I've never heard of her.
DeleteBWAHAHA at saying VM have choreographed pre and post dance ogling. uhhh no. That'd be DW last year.
Sorry, now that I read the whole thing I saw her bio at the end... duh.
DeleteThere is pre and post dance choreographed ogling tho. Scott kisses her hand, stares deep into her eyes and then repeats the staring at the end. It's not a spur of the moment thing, it's all choreographed. It just happens to be much less painful and feel more real than whatever that was that DW did last season.
DeleteYep I hope that choreographed let's stare at each other for a bit thing they do pre and post performance is gone by GPF.
DeleteI hope so too. It gives me major second hand embarrassment.
DeleteI have been feeling the same way 10:03. Before this season their little affectionate touches felt a lot more spontaneous (I'm sure it helped that those little touches weren't exactly the same every time). So far this season everything feels majorly fake and choreographed. They say this FD is their story. I wish it all didn't feel so plastic.
DeleteUnfortunately if people repeat something enough, it becomes fact--in places like FSU and the FS media in North America.
ReplyDeleteNo one can quite explain how DW are technically superior. The truth is, there are several teams that have surpassed them technically (and some, like PB, did this a while ago--they just don't have the politics behind them). Look at how small the curves are when DW skate. Look at how stiff they look. Look at all the arm flailing. Look at some of the ugly positions they hit. DW ubers are bashing Bobrova/Soloviev for some of the same things and no one is calling them out on it. As bad as BS are this season, they still dance a hell of a lot more than DW ever have.
I agree re Bobrova/Soloviev. The problem with their scoring is they have great deep curves when it's not too complicated and incredibly sloppy, irregular feet when they're focusing on speed and "dancing". They have good rhythm when they dance but they're sloppy.
DeleteDW are getting high scores because they've succeeded in eliminating both dancing and skating from how they're judged. It's just, are you 'clean' and did you do your elements. The elements themselves exploit the fact that CoP doesn't define difficulty in any reality based way, and lets dancers off the hook in the way it does not let freaking pairs or singles off the hook. If you can two foot in and out of elements, if outside elements you can run on your toe picks or lunge and tug, then it's set up for a conditioned, athletic team of un-skaters and un-dancers to win, and that's what we have. It has to be intentional because surely pairs and singles could have workarounds with similar rule gaps, but these rule gaps only exist in ice dance.
When Charlie talks about how he and Meryl have gotten stronger technically, he can never manage to say how.
DeleteCan you imagine if a journalist asked them "How exactly have you improved technically?" I wonder what he'd answer.
DeleteHe'd just get generic "We top our lifts every year, we've increased difficulty, etc." No specifics. no technical talk.
DeleteD/W version of 2009 vs 2013
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/wwANXXrHI-M
if they will think to train maybe they will win... :(
ReplyDelete1:34
ReplyDeleteThis is foolish thinking on the part of fans. What do some photos have to do with VM's training? Nothing! Cassandra is not taking any time away from Scott and Tessa's training. They are focused as always on their competitions.
Scott's fake GF's are around as filler, to pose for photos or video and be seen with Scott's family. Do you notice how you don't expect to see Tessa hanging around Scott or the Moirs? The GF is a decoy, diverting attention away from Tessa and her REAL role in Scott's life.
VM and Co. are playing the public. Don't buy into it.
Cassandra is there for the reality show. I think the rest of her family was there too. What's the big deal?
ReplyDeleteWhat's the big deal? That Cassandra is a lie. She's a hired gf, the same way Jessica and her family were.
ReplyDeleteBut no one thinks that Cassandra and the reality show are a huge distraction that VM don't need? I don't give a shit whether he's dating her or not, I don't want to see her on the show, period. She doesn't deserve any more exposure than she's already gotten.
ReplyDeleteWhat makes her less deserving than any other sham girlfriend? Clearly, Tessa and Scott want someone in this job. They chose someone from among Scott's group of Medway buddies. Yes, it's a little embarrassing that she's so incredibly eager for the spotlight, but Jessica appeared to enjoy the camera as well even though she had her own spotlight besides.
ReplyDeleteI don't see how Cassandra herself is a distraction. The reality show, yes, because it's following them everywhere in the GPF and Tessa and Scott are playing to those cameras in a way they never played to the broadcast cameras and fans cameras. They're "acting" for the reality show cameras, and we know how great they are with that.
I've yet to find any redeeming qualities in Cassandra or her family. Her brother is as bad, if not worse. Jessica, while she also enjoyed the perks, could at least skate, when she felt like it.
ReplyDeleteMost of the reports from Paris seemed to place Cassandra with Scott's parents but I imagine that she does enjoy hanging off Scott whenever possible. I would think that having to deal with Cassandra/her family's bullshit for even a small amount of time would be taxing on Scott. She/They must be contributing hugely to this to make it worth it.
We only know the Hilborns through social media and the sham. What's interesting, but I guess not unusual, is the Hilborns are apparently more than comfortable, have lived well for sometime, cheered on Scott and Tessa in 2010, and yet fall over themselves to get their daughter in a pathetic version of the spotlight (social media shamming for a self-selecting group of skating fans is as sad as it gets), and in the process the daughter has made feeble attempts to get her modeling career going and maximize what she sees as opportunity - from signing up for an on line modeling/photography network to getting her lips inflated. Connor doesn't seem much better - he's hitching himself to her scraps. You look at the parents, and then the literal crumbs the kids are chasing and it doesn't look good on London or Ilderton.
ReplyDeleteHmmm - do you see Patrick Chan's girlfriend hanging around at these events...to my knowledge - no...because she knows that he has a job to do on the ice as well as off the ice...(also it appears that she is successful in her career as a designer and has not used him in any shape or form)...you see other amateur athletes whether female or male - and they don't exactly have the bfs and gfs at overseas events because they have other commitments or it's way too expensive...do we see other skater's gfs around - no...and even if Cassandra is Scott's gf - why would you post pictures on facebook before the Olympics...you knew how people reacted with Scott and Jessica - so why take the same approach - oh...because you have nothing to hide? hmmm if your relationship is that solid - you don't need to prove it online.....well at this point people don't react to this anymore because a - they have moved on and b - even if it is real - the timing and the way it is presented is such an outlier at how other athletes share about their significant others - that really it just gives the impression that Scott can't just be Scott...people need to know he has a girlfriend...and folks that's sad...
ReplyDeleteCharlie White's gf is not only around, she's rigging the commentary to make sure her bf wins every event he's in. Charlie knows how to do it right!
ReplyDelete"and yet fall over themselves to get their daughter in a pathetic version of the spotlight (social media shamming for a self-selecting group of skating fans is as sad as it gets)"
ReplyDeleteI thought they were trying to make sure she stars in the reality show and gets alot of attention on a national show just before the Olympics? I'd say it's a pretty good investment if it works out for Cass -- how many people get the type of exposure she's going to get come January?
You can only benefit from exposure if you've got something to expose.
DeleteCassandra is exposing her appearance. She and her brother seem to have been raised to believe they're each exceptional in that department. Neither one is commercial. If she got super fit she could do glamor modeling but that seldom translates into any kind of long lived career and is kind of a bottom feeder modeling category.
She could also be hoping to intersect with rich guys or guys with a lot of status, who are also hot, etc. That's not really going to happen hanging with Joe Moir. Scott doesn't take his fake girlfriends to the TIFF, fashion week, personal appearances with Tessa, meeting the queen, the White Knight ball, etc., where she can rub shoulders with the class of people she thinks she ought to find herself among.
The girlfriends of athletes can sometimes leverage that into opportunities that their looks alone wouldn't bring them, but she's not his girlfiend, that's the problem. (Let's set aside that he's an ice dancer, not a hockey, football, soccer or baseball star). She can't do gigs where part of her bio is "the girlfriend of Scott Moir."
Are there any new pics of Cassandra in Paris ?
ReplyDeleteAre the Moirs making that much money that they can afford it to fly the entire Hilborn clan around the globe for a secondary event like TEB ? And then they have to repeat it for GPF, nationals and the Olympics ?
I don't know the money deal with the Hilborns (it's way more obvious what was up with Jessica), but it just highlights the place this sham has in their lives. And the self-importance. Other SO's don't go to TEB if they're not based in Europe. The overcompensation in this situation is ridiculous. And that someone like Cassandra, who is 24, is willing - EAGER - to do this kind of traveling in order to show herself off in a threadbare scam says wonderful things about life in London. They all come off desperate. OMG, Scott and Tessa! What other famous people will ever come out of London/Ilderton? This is my chance! Asses showing all over the place. Nobody has lives.
DeleteI think people overlook the fact that London is basically a university town (where Western plays a huge part of the community) and is home to an Junior hockey team. In the past, several canadian companies had headquarters in London and that played an important role in the business community. Don't get me wrong - London is a great town in terms of visiting and in terms of cost of living - not pricey. But its not culturally diverse and status is important to folks. Jessica Dube would have never fit in London or Ilderton because she is not originally from there. It's the type of town - where name dropping is important - kind of like Oakville Ontario (a snobbish suburb of Toronto). Here we have Cassandra, 24 who we really don't know anything about - but it appears that the Hilborns are more comfortable than the Dubes in terms of finances - may have traveled here and there (Florida, California, Caribbean) but perhaps she never went overseas. This would be a big deal for her. You'd be surprised how many young people in Ontario have not been overseas - so this trip was definitely a perk for her. This trip was about status and nothing else. Status seems to be big with her and her brother...
DeleteI don't think people are overlooking the fact you describe, but focusing on it. And it's a little pathetic. This is status to them. Scott Moir's a married father, and I'm his fake girlfriend. She's basically showing off for her friends. I can't imagine what else there is. Enjoying imagined power over Scott's fan base?
DeleteI also think it's been obvious for years that Scott's friends "name drop" Scott by highlighting when they spend time with him - bam it's their profile picture. The sham has also been an opportunity for comment that highlights they know him.
Delete"Are there any new pics of Cassandra in Paris ?"
DeleteThere's probably a whole slew of them. That's one of the reasons for going to TEB.
But like it's been said before, no amount of posing or ass-grabbing or kissing makes it real. They can post as many photos as they want--it doesn't unmarry Tessa and Scott. However, it does show how disgusting Scott and Cassandra and all the rest of them can be. It's them. It's not a reflection on the fans.
I have to quote this from upthread--It's hilariously true:
'The thing with the Moirs and the fake gfs and their connections all desperately wanting attention is how equally they want to pretend to be superior to those whose attention they seek."
Yeah, that's the thing. You stack all of Scott's photos with both Jessica and Cassandra - the kissy ones, the ones that are supposedly intimate - end to end - and it's a lot. And then you ask - why did you pose for these again?
DeleteSomeone's getting their rocks off. And maybe it's also because they're scared people will think Scott's gay. The same people they mock - apparently they care about their opinion. Even though most people take one look at Scott within ten feet of Tessa and know he's not gay.
Not to mention, it's gay guys who are hiding, and guys who are incredibly insecure, who do this stuff on social media. Overcompensate.
It cycles back to the fans being a pretext, as always. It's a pretext for Moirville to get its rocks off, be sex obsessed, be exhibitionists. It's all for us.
[[She's basically showing off for her friends. I can't imagine what else there is. Enjoying imagined power over Scott's fan base?]]
DeleteLOL. So Pathetic.
And this might be the closest she'll ever get to being the wife/girlfriend of someone famous, so at least she gets to role play as one. And believe she's SEEN as one. To some people (Scott's fans) she, Cassandra Hilborn, is the girlfriend of a famous guy!
DeleteI don't know - no wonder Scott and Tessa seemed to struggle finding things to promote about London. Unless you know them personally and can hang out with their family and friends and train with Maria Mountain, there's not much there. There's more life faking it on social media than in people's real lives.
Yeah, and Cassandra's loving the role of being ass-grabbed by the fake boyfriend and making that her preferred public photo. What other REAL celebrity-girlfriend has to post those kinds of pictures on her social media account in order to *prove* she's got the guy? A real girlfriend would be about protecting her man's privacy and laying low. Not showing off at every opportunity. And most definitely not acting like she's in competition with the boyfriend's professional partner.
DeleteBut I forget... this is how VM and Moirville imagine a *real* relationship looks like. Tacky and exhibitionist. As if! (I just watched Clueless again for the first time in about 10 years. Everything was "As if!" A perfect fit for this "relationship." Bwahahahaha.)
"Are the Moirs making that much money that they can afford it to fly the entire Hilborn clan around the globe for a secondary event like TEB ?"
DeleteI thought the Virtues pay for this sort of thing? And perhaps the reality show is picking up part of the tab this time around?
8:54, so then are you assuming the reality show thinks Cassandra is a real girlfriend and they're paying her way in order to film her there with Scott? Or do you mean they know she's fake and they're paying her way as their contribution to the sham?
DeleteWhat blows my mind is the money it costs to fly these expensive camera crews and their equipment to all these places around the world just to get VM on film. Will they demand their money back from VM if they thought they were the real deal and later on find out they were used to hoax the Canadian public?
7:24 - actually a gazbillion celebrity girlfriends like to work it. I can't think of all that many celebrity girlfriends who are about protecting their man's privacy and lying low. Nobody becomes a celebrity because they don't like attention, and very few become celebrity girlfriends without any agenda. I'm sure there are some examples - long term girlfriends who've been in the picture before their bf became a big deal, maybe.
DeleteWhat is pitiful is Cassandra is only a virtual celebrity gf, and then only in front of fans, on social media and at skating events. Look at all the events Scott and Tessa have attended -he didn't bring Jessica, he doesn't bring Cassandra. She doesn't get to be a celebrity gf for real, at celebrity events. She gets to pretend in front of his FANS that she's one - not on a red carpet.
9:06 - I have trouble picturing any circumstances under which a production company is going to kick itself when/if VM reveal in its life span as a company. Did they make money or were there other benefits - raise its profile, create buzz? That's fine. They're doing a reality show, not a news documentary. They know Tessa's got HD make-up on. From what we've seen in previews both she and Scott are styled within an inch of their lives. There really isn't any entity in a position to call the company out or anyone else out? Who'd do it? There are plenty of people complicit already, half the people don't know a lot of the shit Scott and Tessa pull/ed on social media, and it's figure skating, which people don't take seriously.
I don't know who pays for Cassandra to go to Paris but both the Hilborns and the Virtues are set up for it.
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If Cassandra could date a hockey player she would immediately kick Scott into the trash can. If she had the possibility to date a real celebrity ( alas figure skating isn't such a big deal anymore ) she's take it without even blinking.
DeleteWhy does Moirville believe that a picture of Scott grabbing Cassandra's butt in public is something that a *real* girlfriend would share on facebook ? Maybe I know the wrong people but none of my friends would share such private things, especially not if they knew that there are people out there who follow their activities.
I never thought I'd say this but the Jessica sham seemed to be executed a lot better than this one. At least Jessica tried to appear cute and lovey-dovey ( it wasn't her fault that Scott couldn't fake any affection ). But Cassandra just comes across really cheap. Not sure why she believes this is her ticket to fortune and fame. Does she really believe this is a way for her and her brother to get modeling gigs ?
I think it looks "hot" to them, it's being exhibitionistic and provocative, it makes him look hetero (if that's part of it), and it's meanspirited because fans find that shit upsetting and they think it should be beneath Scott. There's the Scott who presents himself to the video cameras and there's the Scott who acts like a creepy little insecure fuck on social media with the sham photos. There's the Scott who acts as if he knows what's appropriate and isn't and there's the Scott on facebook who wants fans to see his "personal" business. For people that actually believe the girlfriends are real, these two Scotts must be incredibly creepy.
DeleteBut again, it gets attention and that must be as good as currency to them.
I don't know if Cassandra has a long term game plan. It's just - here's my life in London and here's an opportunity to show off on social media as the fake gf of a famous friend/neighbor, I "make the big screen" (that teeny little thumbnail glimpse of Cassandra among the Moirs was enough for her to tweet about) - even if it doesn't lead anywhere it's status, it's something to look back on and show off about. That's who these people are. They're not looking at the big picture of what this IS. They're going - he's famous, I get to be part of it, I get to pose and show off - include me in!
That's it.
Cassandra isn't dating Scott, btw, so do you mean if she got a hockey player she'd abandon the sham?
Another word about celebrity girlfriends - not all, but plenty, celebrity guys CHOOSE a girlfriend based on factors other than OMG she's so cute and I really like her. How does she look? Is she camera-ready? Is she the right age/look/type that the celebrity thinks helps his own image.
Most young celebrities are concerned with their celebrity over, above, beyond their concern with their actual dating life.
I do know of one celebrity who isn't young and still does this. He's never going to get married, and he has some long-running on and off relationships on the side, but his "official" girlfriend is always someone who looks "right' on the red carpet and in the tabloids.
I suspect Cassandra thinks if she got the right exposure she could be one of those girls. It's a little challenging cause Scott's an ice dancer, so it doesn't get the press real sports get (and if it did, being married with a sham gf would be a harder trick to pull off), and they really mostly want her for social media and fans, but still, better than dental hygiene and the hometown crew she's known for years. Who knows who she might meet? A producer! Another athlete! A personality!
^ Not talking about George Clooney - this is a celebrity I actually know about.
Delete"For people that actually believe the girlfriends are real, these two Scotts must be incredibly creepy."
DeleteAbsolutely yes. That's my experience. When I thought Jessica was a real gf I thought Scott was creepy and a jerk. That's the way the sham makes him look both toward his SO (I thought was real) and skating partner.
Now that I know what's true (and not by speculation but I know by fact), Scott still comes across incredibly creepy in being able to pose pseudo-intimately in a cheap sham while denying his wife and child. Eeewwww.
I'm the anon from 12:33
ReplyDelete" Cassandra isn't dating Scott, btw, so do you mean if she got a hockey player she'd abandon the sham? "
Yes, that's what I meant. I believe Cassandra just took the next best opportunity that came her way but if she could date somebody more rich and famous she probably would forget about her deal with the Moirs and take the next best thing as long as she's young and pretty enough to pay her bills with her looks ( if she has any bills to pay considering that she's still living at home ).
The whole sham seems irritatingly "junior high." And talk about a tangled web...
ReplyDelete