PCs fucked up twizzles
Gif of P/C's truly hot mess twizzles. This is not glitchy, not need a discerning eye, this is fucked up the element. +3s.
I have a pit in my stomach, and not that "secretly know it will all come right in the end but don't want to jinx it" kind.
Read this this morning from PJ Kwong
Garbage
Excerpt:
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| Mother of God. |
So far:
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| This was very nice. |
Sui Han and Tarasova Morasov were more than capable of blowing their long programs. The miracle is Savchenko/Massot skating clean and racking up enough points to catch up. Fourth to gold doesn't happen often. Savchenko seems to me to be a better "pure" skater now than she was before. She has more speed, more run of blade on her throw landings. More true difficulty in the lifts, more flow in and out, even if the final lift was glacial. And, putting in a word for Bruno Massot - he's about as stiff in the torso as many other male pairs skaters, but he's more than the warm body escorting her through these Olympics. He does not pop up when he throws her, for one. While not quite sustaining a Grinkov-esque glide, he is a very strong skater and pairs man.
And of course have to put in a word for Meghan Duhamel who has really shown her maturity, decency and humanity in a big way.
This guy:
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| Did not want to win Olympic gold. He didn't choke For two Olympic cycles he has been an epic instance of willful, maybe even conscious, self-sabotage. |
You didn't quote the part I find the best!
ReplyDelete"Hats off, by the way, to the Montreal coaching team of Marie-France Dubreuil, Patrice Lauzon and Romain Haguenauer for guiding both these teams to their own version of perfection. "
But of course.
So happy for Aliona btw.
Cheers,
Margot
It's just too much. I know the blog has been saying over and over again that things are too much. I don't mean in some emo, pseudo-triggered, fragile way, just that whatever internal dumpster stores the bullshit has been overflowing and figure skating was the icing on the cake. The complicity in the bullshit makes it all the worse.
DeleteTHAT said, I didn't stay up for the short dance. But I woke up and didn't have that "Feeling" I had for the GPF. I just thought - they won the short. And truthfully, I had that feeling before I went to bed.
Aliona was too much. This was her holy grail, to say the least. Watching her take her time, soak in every second of the medal ceremony was wonderful. I'm glad she had the maturity to do it and didn't just keep it inside. She took a good long look at the top of the podium before climbing on top of it, she waved to every inch of the arena, she played tribute to her partner and vice versa. I'm not just happy she won, but that she did it with such a beautifully executed free dance.
P.S. - reading the breakdown, it appears the scores were L4ing Papadakis Cizeron in the freaking short all over the place til their junior-level straight line lift showed some hesitation due to a wardrobe issue. This is absurd.
DeleteAnd that's what all p/c fans in forums are attributing to. Not actual skating (and skills, I might add) performed but they think p/c would have beaten v/m without a wardrobe malfunction. Really would love for someone to do a video comparison on every element (twizzles, SS, no touch, lift, etc) they performed in olympics SD against v/m's just to prove a point about skating skills.
DeleteThat will happen once video is more widely available.
DeleteI apparently nbc and CNBC did comment on it but nothing is going to happen. And we know it and why ... Graf makes me so furious!
DeletePJ. Seriously. What a load of garbage.
ReplyDeleteThe gif of the Germans makes me so happy! And Meagan is a class act, thrilled for her and Eric, love her enthusiasm for her fellow skaters. You can tell she truly loves the sport.
I remember when Meghan skated with Buntin. The definition of that type of journeyperson pairs team, rough as hell. Whatever may be said about them as a pairs team, they squeezed every ounce out of their individual and respective abilities. Each of them was always absolutely fit. Each was always absolutely committed. They gave themselves every chance. There are skaters and teams with much more natural talent and athletic ability who never maximize their gifts as Duhamel Radford did. It's rare to get both (maximum talent, and maximizing that talent).
DeleteWould love to hear more on this theory about how PChan didn't want to win Olympic gold.
ReplyDeleteI can't analyze it because I don't know him, and I'm not his psychologist, but he appears to enjoy upending things that are working. Back in 2010 he was the guy with the feet. Skate Canada attempted to argue that the skating skills were or should be rated as highly as a quad, which, at the time, Patrick didn't have. After 2010, he went to a coach whose name I forget, who used technology and a seemingly brilliantly worked out warm up to get Patrick a reliable quad. So now we had brilliant-footed Patrick with a quad that looked fail safe - the mechanics and timing were in his body, he thoroughly understood how to set himself up for the quad, time it and land it. His 3A was less assured as he tended to land forward on his blade, but he was hitting it nonetheless.
DeleteThen he went ahead and made a confused mess of his coaching situation. Why? He was constantly in a stage of psyching himself out, at least in his public remarks. This is a sport. For men, at least. While pcs for men can be as bullshitty as they are in every other skating discipline, I don't think anybody could argue against the high pcs Patrick would get if he hit his quads and 3A. So, IMO, that ought to have been his goal. It was working at one point - he had quads when his own federation seemed to be hedging its bets as to whether he'd ever even get one. His reasons for leaving the coaching situation that brought him there didn't appear to have anything to do with the tech side of his game, and I just find that odd. He seems to look for problems, that's my impression. He's not comfortable - for long - when there are no issues.
Yeah, he was with Christy Krall and he was very solid. Then he decided he just needed a dance teacher instead of a skating coach for a while.
DeleteBack in 2010, Meagan - who might be not the skatest skater in the world but it's definitely one of the greatest athletes - wrote those words:
ReplyDelete"Russian Skating Federation did everything in their power to ensure this team [Domnina and Shabalin] would be at the top in Vancouver. That’s how skating works sometimes - unfortunately. Politics! It’s there, we all know it, but there’s not much the skaters themselves can do. We skate, regardless, because we love it but it is always sad to see these things happen when there may be more deserving skaters sitting in 4th place. That’s why I was so proud of figure skating after the dance event finished. The judges didn’t judge in political favor of anyone. They judged what they saw and that’s how it should be. Good for figure skating!"
Via Absolute Skating
God, please, make the history repeat itself!
Hugs and kisses,
Margot
I think after 2010, everybody, including the Russian Federation, with the absolute cooperation of Skate Canada, got itself on the same page to get DW on the top of the podium in Sochi.
DeleteI don't know about Canada being cooperative. More like being bullied into cooperating. Practically any sport journalists were gagged/blackballed if one peep gets out they are not in support of d/w. Noticeable in the two years coming into Sochi. Especially if US and Russia colluded together to make that happen. After all US and Russia do have bigger monies supporting the Feds. And this
DeleteIn comparison to Canada. Which I think is relatively quite small. Hockey, yes I believe that. I also don't think that Vancouver OGM was just handed to v/m (as some would even dare suggest)
Skate Canada gave VM horrifically low scores for Carmen and Nationals. Skate Canada didn't utter a peep when DW were awarded the GPF title in 2014 despite being decisively outskated by VM. Skate Canada's mouthpieces continually justified VM's losses to DW. The late David Dore was Canadian, had deep tentacles in Skate Canada, and was president of the figure skating branch of the ISU. DW's gold had to have been his baby.
DeleteI've published a new entry on Judging Privilege about tonight's short dance scoring: https://judgingprivilege.wordpress.com/2018/02/19/olympic-fun/
ReplyDeleteThe numbers from Walter Zuccaro (J7) for PC are insane. 4/5 10s in PCS and 4/5 3s in GOE. That's better than what he gave VM.
DeleteAnd funny thing is, he was involved in that 2001 GPF judging calamity
I woke up fairly confident and then realized VM pretty much won the short dance only because Gabriella's costume had a problem. Jesus Christ.
DeleteThe Canadians: went viral because they're fierce, sexy, superb skaters whose skill level was obvious to even the most casual fan. Also Moulin Rouge (even if lots of skating fans hated the music, most of the public loved it). Also the "cunniliftus" (take that, skating forum prudes). Also, chemistry and connection ("ice-fucking", "they're dating, right?").
ReplyDeleteThe French: trending because of a nip slip. That's what you get for letting your partner design your dress with impunity.
The pretend hate for Moulin Rouge is as agenda'd as the pretend hate for Carmen, IMO. If they'd done a lyrical program they'd have been mocked.
DeleteTruth!
DeleteIt's seems like that every season v/m competes ...
It would be pretty sweet if one of you folks who knows, could do a GIF style post breaking down the faults of VM and the french pair, such that it goes viral.
ReplyDeleteIt's just too easy for people who don't know to justify things based on feels. I'd like to believe that VM are technically the best, and it appears so, but I'm no expert.
Somewhere on this blog there was a link to another site that had these gifs, showing the skates, the errors, and explaining them. Unfortunately there are so many posts here and the link was, I think, in the comments.
The images speak for themselves. I gather many folks here want to be anonymous because they are involved in the FS world. But a single page blog where the images do the talking (along with some explanation) would sure be useful to many people.
Ah, and to add to the above, thanks for this blog. Although it could be organized a little better and perhaps written more clearly - maybe one page or post with a summary of the details? - if one wants to they can read all of the posts and all of the comments :-D and get a pretty good idea of what is going on. Sorry if that seems like a backhanded compliment but it isn't!!
ReplyDeleteUhhhhhh you might want to see this OC https://www.theringer.com/olympics/2018/2/19/17021330/tessa-virtue-scott-moir-relationship-winter-olympics
ReplyDeleteI don't think THAT blog got the message that no skating fans admit to reading this one. Not to mention, everything I've read said that nobody believes this blog, and this blog is insane, so what rumors is the author talking about? The rumors only exist here, or at least that's what I keep reading. Everybody with any sense knows they are nonsense. /s
DeleteI admit I enjoy to venture into FS forum boards. One particular point that stood out is how double standard they are when it comes to v/m. Botched twizzles from Tessa last season was dinged in scores so much harder than this French couple. Putting them way ahead for them to win over v/m. Yet lots of justifications/excuses when it came to them in yesterday's SD. Wow... The hypocrisy. That also I say *** u judges. It's not like we (non casual / once in 4 yrs watchers) are blind to what they're doing. It's so clearly blatant, it's shameless! I'm really done with ice dance discipline once v/m retires.
ReplyDeleteVM were dealing with a double standard even in the run up to Vancouver.
DeleteYup. I noticed that too. I've been watching since 2007. Love this Canadian athletes
DeleteWhat these politicized judges need to be concerned about is that the viewing audiences will boycott ice dancing, figure skating because of dubious marks. People are not stupid. They may not be former coaches or over-the-hill skaters, but they know quality when they see it. They also know costume malfunctions and fumbled twizzles when they see it. If the judges think their bias is a secret, they're too full of themselves to understand public opinion and consequences of alienating public opinion with blatant corruption and manipulation. They should ask Hillary Clinton what happens if they're too thick to understand. With low viewer percentages, those prima donna judges, will have no events to judge in coming years. Advertisers don't respond well to low ratings. Job V/M out of a gold medal with bias, and see the plummeting ratings next winter Olympics for ice skating. There will be no there there for judging positions in ice skating thereafter. Postscript: Hubbell would do well to keep her catty mouth shut about V/M and to concentrate more on her own skating skills. This suggestion comes from an American viewer.
ReplyDeleteIt's pathetic if that's the only reason why they'll award some skaters for fear of losing endorsements. Can't even fix the root of the problem .. Fair judging. So easy ... That will actually make more viewers watch FS. Sad!
DeleteHaving said that, I'm projecting to the universe that v-m skate the skate of their life and win dets economy of gold - just to prove a point that they are indeed the best ice dancer of this two decades.
DeleteTo Anon 1:37:
DeleteLike pro sports, Olympic sport events are all about viewer ratings, advertising $$$$, and network contracts. $$$$ or lack thereof is the only weapon sport fans/viewers have to keep corrupt organizations and their shadowy officials from coloring too far outside the margins. Ethics and principles ( assuming they once existed) are long gone in the IOC. It is what it is. So embrace our TV ratings "people power", because there's no other weapon in our hoi polloi corner.
But for dress malfunction the French would be ahead they will win gold by one point
ReplyDeleteYEP.
DeleteWhat did Hubbell say?
DeleteI say, whatever to the wardrobe malfunction and focus more the scores given on p/C's botched twizzles (surprise, surprise) rated BETTER than v/m. That alone should have dropped their scores lower if it was judged fairly. And so NOT surprise on p/C's forum boards it's totally not addressed. Sick!!!!!
DeleteYep - same thing happened in their first worlds. Completely out of sync, didn't matter. Huge double standard.
DeleteOC, you're going to love this one...
Delete"We trained for a little while with [Papadakis and Cizeron] in Detroit, when they visited (during the 2011-12 season)," Hubbell said. "They were a little bit of a mess, they made a lot of mistakes, but those moments they really skated together, they had special chemistry and glide.
"For me, they have the kind of skating I want to see in ice dance. It's power and also elegant; their lines are gorgeous. They've done a lot of work in Montreal on precision, what it take to win points and not make mistakes."
Hubbell does not discount Virtue and Moir's chances, saying no couple sells their material as well as the Canadians.
"Tessa and Scott are kind of that quintessential 'old Hollywood' team," Hubbell said. "Seeing them train, they don't compare themselves (to other teams), so it lets them be 100 percent committed to whatever it is they chose to do. ... We see them compete. They have a lot of little bobbles this season -- they're not always perfect -- but they make you believe they're perfect because they are so committed to their performance."
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/02/17/266673072/what-makes-canadian-french-dancers-stand-apart
It was worse than that: "You know, [V/M] get the tens and they get all the +3s. And we see them compete, you know — they’ve had a lot of little bobbles, little mistakes this season in their performances. They don’t always skate perfect, but they make you believe that it’s perfect because they’re so committed to each other, to their performance, and they just get lost in their own little world."
Deletehttps://judgingprivilege.wordpress.com/2018/02/03/team-spirit/
Thanks 12:56, I remembered there being more to it and thought I was going crazy. That is a horrible lie.
DeleteThose who can't emulate, bitch about it. Hubbell completely lost my respect with that throw shade statement. Granted before this I actually thought they have a chance to great once v/m retire. Now I can't stomach to cheer for her. Sorry ...
DeleteYour dismissive "whatever" attitude about wardrobe malfunction would not play well with Yura Min and Alex Gamelin, who competed for South Korea, and suffered a 1 point deduction when a clasp came loose on the back of Min's costume. Contrast those consequences with the zero point deduction assessed to P/C, despite GP's major costume failure wherein her left nip was fully exposed on international TV. Over rating lacklustre twizzles and unsteady lifts is bad enough. But applying a rule regarding wardrobe malfunction to one ice dance pair but not to another is a blatant in your face insult to viewers around the globe. The ISU punks must have felt lucky last night. Will the quid pro quo US/French fix hold or waiver tonight? Bets, anyone?
DeleteFurthermore, Hubbels remarks presume that everybody's skating skills and true levels of difficulty are about the same, and its only VM's confidence that convinces the judges. Not the unearthly unison, the tremendous run of blade and power, the seamless in and out during lifts, the efficiency and purity of the balance points, Scott's incredible edge control and balanced blades while supporting Tessa, etc. Nope, it's just that they're great show people!
DeleteI was alreay side eyeing Hubbell during this article where I read her mom (who works two jobs, including one at a restaurant) sews most of her costumes, and can spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on material for a costume, only to have the costume not worn. While I get this is mom's choice, I thought Hubbell's "taking it for granted"ness in the article came off poorly.
I agree 100% about Hubbell. If the US/French fix requires a bronze medal for a US dance pair, I hope the ShibSibs or Chock/Bates win it. Anyone but Hubbell. If anything, ZD should get a participation trophy for attempting a Hubbell lift. Furthermore, the not so subtle snipes and swipes at V/M by CW/TW have also been off putting. NBC suits have mis-judged the appeal of TW in particular. At least CW bought back a gold medal stateside. What has TW done for us lately is the question most American viewers ask. Not only that, but TW's commentary is not engaging whatsoever, at best forgettable. Both TW and MH share the same annoying habit of projecting American Princess vibes (and yes, I'm well aware that TW is a naturalized American).
DeleteI've been watching the US coverage and think Charlie and Tanith have continued to be pretty favorable towards V/M (Charlie using them as an example of rhumba choctaw ideal, for one). I'm curious what you feel are the examples of them taking swipes at V/M?
Delete4:24 cont'd -- and Tanith was disgusted that V/M were given a L2 in the team event, kept saying that it was unfair to go from that calling to the calling that gives far inferior teams L4s.
DeleteHere's an example of CW's lame observations about V/M's skill set:
Deletehttps://twitter.com/CharlieaWhite/status/962509368867500032
"Scott and Tessa are good at Ice Dancing."
And on NBC CW addressed P/C's so-called courage in facing the love fest for V/M by choosing to train Montreal. Hello, Charlie. Does the phrase "Vive le Québec libre!" ring any bells? Quebec is home away from home for French citizens like P/C.
TW had the same lukewarm praise for VM. She smiles while putting the shiv to the neck with underwhelming praise. What was hilarious was when TW beat her chest with concern and worry about "Gabby's" wardrobe malfunction: "I can't even describe not only how distracting that is but how disappointing it is that they had to perform that program with that distraction for themselves," said NBC ice dancing commentator Tanith White. "They are such exceptional skaters but, unfortunately, that was distracting throughout the program and it hurt them in their technical execution which is really where they shine." Hello, Tanith. No need to work up a sweat. The nip slip didn't hurt P/C at all with the judges. They scored an 81.93 due to faux over rating to put P/C less than two points behind V/M even though V/M soared like eagles in their SD while P/C stumble bumbled with skates of concrete on the ice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understatement
DeleteI remember during Carmen, TW pretty much ignored everything about the program except the lyrical section, which she touted as what fans really want to see from VM, and the stuff that they really do best.
DeleteP.C's twizzles were not marked higher than VM in the SD. Results link is
ReplyDeletehttp://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/owg2018/OWG2018_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf
VM got level 4 with GOE of 1.71 for twizzles.
PC got level 4 with GOE of 1.37 for their twizzles.
I didn't say P/C's twizzles were marked higher than V/M's. What I suggested was that P/C's fumbled twizzles were marked higher than they deserved and the scores you posted validate my comment.
DeleteYup. Those botched/fumbled twizzles (clearly viewed on TV by millions and just not the judges ) were ridiculously overscored (as you have shown above) Level 4??? Really? I bet if it were v/m, that'll be pounced like a rabid hyena to meat and in this case, you look at other skaters who commit the same offense last night are marked way lower. You can't hide this or make any excuses for this blatant cheating, ok?
Deletehttps://twitter.com/stethoscope131/status/965655377911209986
DeleteCheck the twitter response to this. There is a video comparison between v/m and p/c twizzles section from last night's SD. And can you honestly tell me if it was the other way around, would you be ok or outraged?
But for judging malfunctions, the French would be #4 at best in the SD. But if the ISU want to tempt Fate by condoning blatant bias, it should be prepared to suffer harsh consequences. Internet blogs have millions more followers, more lasting influence than traditional media these days. Surviving the Salt Lake Game scandal happened because internet blogs and social media had not yet gained prominence in the public square. It's a different situation today. The ISU's shenanigans are already under discussion. V/M have captured the hearts of people round the globe. If the ISU think they'll avoid public condemnation as they did with the Salt Lake Games scandals, they're badly mistaken. Per a wise man named Abraham Lincoln: "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." Public outrage is only a few clicks away. Advertisers really hate sport scandals - it's not good for business. The Olympics depend on advertising $.
ReplyDeleteLow viewer numbers for ice dancing =loss of key advertisers' interest = loss of prime time scheduling slot. The NFL's antics which alienated their viewer base should be a teaching lesson for the ISU. Once you lose viewers, you never get them back.
If the ISU shafts V/M for the gold medal they deserve, the only viewer interest in ice dancing will express itself when a tell-all documentary is televised and/or a non-fiction exposé about how the politicization of the ISU is published. There'll be no place to hide from public scrutiny for unethical judges like SR and shabby ISU Federation Presidents like DG when the curtain is pulled back from the glitter of ice dancing to reveal the soiled hands and ugly faces running the show. Do ISU punks feel lucky today? We'll find out in a few hours.
Figure skating just has become more and more flagrant bullshit. Even before we talk about scoring the program on the ice, difficulty levels need to be discussed. P/C wouldn't even be in the conversation if the sport hadn't dumbed down levels. Double standard as well, because no other team can get away with junior lifts and twizzle entrance/exits, only them.
DeleteWhat's atrocious isn't just the dumbing down after v/m and d/w decide to step out of competition, it is just in that two years, the judges had judged the skaters as high as v/m's level (or more) when clearly they haven't even reached them. So it makes it difficult now for them to back down after v/m decided to come back. Those they propped up ,while they were gone, are shown how big of a difference of levels in terms of the skating skills displayed by v/m. So they (not judges but the Feds of propped teams) had to justify it in terms of the narrative artistic difference/innovation that's seen as even better than v/m. As though v/m isn't innovative enough before p/c were pushed up. (This point is ridiculous especially coming from Madison who said what she said). I'm hoping that there will be uproar in the SD marks as it and if v/m were clearly underscored due to biasness, hope there'll be hell to pay. Until tonight ...
DeleteThe treatment of Carmen was a proactive pushback against the entire sport. The ISU absolutely trashed it, because it clearly established VM as leagues beyond. Ice dance hasn't recovered. We're at the point where PC's curve lift is her kneeling on Cizeron who is in an uneven spread eagle, and that gets the highest level of difficulty. The entrance is bullshit - barely "apparent" difficult entrance, let alone an actual difficult entrance. Fans can see the difference, which is why "I'm not a technician so who can tell!" is flogged so heavily. And why so-called "performance" attributes - do I like the music? Was the acting cool? - are encouraged and focused on instead of the skating.
DeleteVm won by less than a point those jerks gave French free dance win unreal hubbells big moir gotbhwr just desserts at 4
ReplyDeleteYeah, but they won. The P/C juggernaut has been stopped. Long live V/M!
DeleteScott and Tessa were the class of the field. They will be remembered because of their talent, grace, and class. P/C may have been handed a silver medal but they will be remembered for nothing. They are completely forgettable. The Shibutani's were (and are) better.
DeleteInsane the French won the free - what unreal bullshit.
DeleteBut VM have the gold they deserved in 2014, and the gold they should not have had to fight so hard for in 2018. Unbelievable. The French just need to be upright, VM need to be sublime, and they still lose a segment. But I don't care. The short showed the asses of the judges, so everyone knows who was best in both segments.
The people's voices won big tonight! Make no mistake - the fix was in. The fear of public backlash was the only thing that killed the deal. TW was speechless ( smirk) but quickly back pedaled saying she didn't have any favorite for the gold. Alas, no bronze for Hubbell. Go SibuSibs! Excellence prevailed over corruption tonight...but tomorrow is a new day for wheeler dealers. We'll talk again next Winter Olympics.
DeleteAmazing! I couldn't watch as I was sure the fix was in and could hardly believe it when I checked this morning. It's a real miracle on ice. Thank goodness.
ReplyDelete