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| I enjoyed Scott Hamilton, Leslie Jones, and Adam Rippon commentary on the heat in the VM SD. "Are they dating?! Cause you have to have kissed at least once to do that!' Hamilton. "I don't knooooooooow." He knows. |
The score for the French was obscene.
The French were indifferent in the free, and worse in the short. Scott and Tessa had to spike the ball, and I think the crowd helped.
Thank fucking God. Two gold medals, one short of what they deserve. A fake epic battle. Well, a fake epic SKATING battle. A battle where they had zero room for error (despite Madison Hubbell's bullshit) and the French just had to stay standing to get scores a razor's margin from perfect. Virtue Moir cleared the hurdle. I can't even express how important it is, how huge it is, in my heart, and for me, for them to have two golds. I mean, obviously, every VM fan and true skating fan out there feels the same. They should have more, but I'll take it. 20 and 22, gold medal. 28 and 30, gold medal. That'll do it. Should be three.
I can't quite believe it, but they're clutch. At least this time it was possible for them to win, no matter how absurd the standard. A tiny difference between 2018 and 2014, in view of the revolting double standards, but at least the possibility existed, where there was no possibility in 2014. VM, if you are beyond the beyond, we will give you the opportunity to defeat a French team with indifferent skating skills, a French team with careless bodies that are indifferent to what's happening at blade level, even though we'll call that talent.
Congrats too to the Shibs. I had extra incentive to root for them after reading about Madison Hubbell's verbal antics (also didn't want Gadbois to sweep).
My twitter timeline is trending with both Virtue Moir and ShibSibs. I don't do a lot of searching or hashtag following for either, so I'll take it as genuine. I don't see Papadakis Cizeron there at all. Every four years, the civilians can tell who deserves it.
PS - good for VM for going back to the old lift. Bullshit is bullshit, and I'm glad they thumbed their nose at the pandering.
Still absolutely insane that P/C had such a mess of an Olympics and still won the free. This sport needs to be booted out of the Olympics - it's not a sport.
I must say, the faces on Papadakis Cizeron got on my nerves. Dudes, you don't deserve to be anywhere near the medal ceremony. At least I always thought Davis White understood that. Sure, they wanked it that "hard work", all the effort friends, family, country, blah blah blah put into things worked to kind of make them justify it, but I always got the idea that Charlie, at least, understood it was not about who skated the best. So P/C - suck it up. VM are leagues better than you are. Have a little shame.
Finally, it's nice to see Tessa's face. Part of me wonders if her face and eyes during Sochi isn't why they were here. She's as well bred as they come, but she knew they were fucked over in Sochi, and maybe it's harder for her to swallow than Scott. Scott was probably not feeling the greatest in Sochi either, but during the medal ceremony and elsewhere he was dialed in to the expression in her eyes and seemingly distracting her to the utmost. Here, I didn't get the "OMG, we won the Olympics!" vibe we saw in Vancouver. It was much more subdued. I often think winning is like that - real winning, when you deserve to win, or are a megaton better than your rivals. It's what's supposed to happen. It feels natural. Things are right. No need to punch out walls or jump through the rafters. The real problem is when you deserve to win, and don't. It rankles. I feel Tessa has always felt it. If she fucked up, she'd be the first to think she didn't deserve it, even if someone else's skate was inferior in the fundamentals. However, she's not an idiot, and she knows if she and Scott skate their best, they're better than everyone else and should win. So since 2014 she hasn't felt right. Now she feels right.
So do I.
A huge sigh of relief. Vm should skip worlds . They were unreal. Yes for shibs but they would have lost but for the deduction. They were being set up. I’m convinced that it was the dress that the dress saved vm. They would have beaten vm and gotten gold but after dress they couldn’t . So I’m certain it was same as 2014 and vm wowed the world on team and had momentum. The French coming late was stupid move. So my point is that vm would have lost and that was plan but for unforeseen circumstances
ReplyDeleteI agree, the dress saved VM. The twizzles should have put the Shibs and H/D in second, and the rest of the performance wasn't much better. But we've seen the set up now, and what was intended. So circumstances finally worked in VM's favor. Nobody will remember that, though. They'll remember they won, and deserved it.
DeleteI don't know about skipping Worlds. VM love to skate, and why not do it. Are P/C going?
I agree completely! No one will remember the scores or the WRs. They will just remember the performances and who won. And at least, this time around, there are two deserving teams on the podium.
DeleteGold! Also, they were viral, the talk of the town! The prudes at FSU and Golden Skate must be gnashing their teeth that the casual fans love MR, "cunniliftus" and all. :D
DeleteScore-fixing aside, you would think that a top team like P/C would have triple-checked if a costume is working as it should. I read somewhere that Cizeron designed the SD dress (I'm assuming with the help of an actual seamstress/tailor). Is he majoring in fashion design? Because if not, then his creation was poorly thought out.
DeleteI wonder if the ISU will amend its costume violation rules so that a nip slip like that will have a deduction.
Sloppiness has carried P/C this far, they're probably out of the habit of triple-checking anything for soundness.
DeleteYou're probably right, OC. If you get handed everything and given a pass on your mistakes, checking is probably not a habit you foster.
Deletehttps://www.google.pt/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/live/2018/feb/19/winter-olympics-ice-dancing-shibutani-siblings-hubbell-donohue-scores
ReplyDeleteExcellent commentary calling out French score bs
I'm glad to see that this time, Scott's elation after their skate was backed up with a win. :)
DeleteIce Dancing should have been booted out of the Olympics in 1998 when Bourne and Kraatz were jobbed over their innovative River-Dance routine. Does anyone have any fond memories of Grishuk and Platov? Were their programs memorable?
ReplyDeleteThe scoring for P/C was obscene. They may have been handed an undeserved and unearned silver but this talent challenged duo will be remembered for nothing.
Congratulations to Tessa and Scott and the Shibutani's. The two best free dances tonight.
Bourne and Kraat aren't a hill I'm ever going to want to die on, but there was't a whole lot of edge work in Grishuk-Platov's programs. A lot of frantic twizzling by Grishuk, yes. Also I don't care about innovative. I don't care if a dance team skates to the oldest warhorse on the planet and recycles stuff they used from 1977 IF the 1977 stuff has a genuine level of difficulty that is competitive with the present day, and if the execution is superior. I am beyond tired of reading about performance and programs. Yes, I enjoy that VM are the best performers and have fabuluous musicality, but that is the icing on the cake of their sublime skating skills, the key issue that every skating fan in nearly every forum waves away.
DeleteP.S., at least Virtue and Moir had company in the double standard dungeon - the Shibs have to earn ever fraction of a point on the ice, and let them show the merest hesitation, they pay for it. Meantime every single error and glitch from the French is incorporated into their "style" and doesn't affect their scores. It's like some freaking Hunger Games (not that I've seen that franchise) or other dystopic competition where one side is blind, starving, walking a tightrope with flames underneath, and has rabid dogs waiting on the other side, and their competitor is on a water slide.
DeleteIce Dancing is the most corrupt of all the figure skating disciplines. Remember Fusar-Poli and Margaglio? Hell they were even worse than P/C. No argument on V/M they should have 3 straight individual gold medals. D/W were another sub-par team with sub-par skills. It's time to punt this sport bout of the Olympics. If there is not a level playing field there is no point in competing.
DeleteAgreed. It's also, apparently, the most butt hurt of all figure skating disciplines. Look at the resentment surfacing from inferior teams towards VM when there is apparently no such resentment towards an obviously inferior team (PC) getting inflated scores. I guess the lesser teams look at PC and think "That could be us!" but look at VM and are either butthurt or in complete denial about how unreachable they are.
DeleteThe ISU has done everything it can to create a level playing field by dumbing the sport down. There is no point to having superior skills, since it is not rewarded or scored. Yet somehow if certain teams take advantage of the dumbing down, they will be penalized, while it plays to the advantage of others. Wonder who is the next PC in the pipeline.
Skaters have been showing their colors. Hey, Jane Torvill, VM have two individual (dance team) golds. Eat it.
Virtue and Moir just bumped Torvill and Dean further down the ice dance greats list. :D Really, did she want what happened to her in '94 to happen to V/M?
DeleteProbably yes, I think.
Delete"Agreed. It's also, apparently, the most butt hurt of all figure skating disciplines. Look at the resentment surfacing from inferior teams towards VM when there is apparently no such resentment towards an obviously inferior team (PC) getting inflated scores. I guess the lesser teams look at PC and think "That could be us!" but look at VM and are either butthurt or in complete denial about how unreachable they are."
Delete^^^This. And it's actually funny how they're bending over backwards to support P/C's narrative, when they know that in truth P/C is a subpar team. I'm actually offended on a lot of teams' behalf. They skate a lot better and this farce of a team gets scored higher. They do far more difficult lifts and yet P/C gets rewarded for doing the absolute least in that area. I feel like I should be dubious at those fans/posters who claim to have a background in dance. Do they not understand core strength (which I doubt Papadakis has a lot of) in partnering? They probably got distracted by her long arms and Cizeron's giraffe neck.
I lost my comment the first time I tried... heavy traffic tonight?
ReplyDeleteVM finally have the 3 golds they deserve - I'm just pretending the team one is really from Sochi :)
I'm not going to get upset at the FD. It's BS. But as much as we knew the fix was in for PC, and it is apparent in the FD marks, this wasn't like Sochi. With DW the door was shut and closed tight. There was no chance, even if DW fell. And this time around I think we all felt it, that teensiest, tiniest glimmer of hope. It was only a 1% chance. They had to be absolutely perfect through both programs and hope PC lost a level somewhere. It was an unfair and impossible standard, but somehow, they fucking did it, and we should all bow down to the king and queen.
I still can't believe V/M won! I am in shock. But, I am also trying not to be bitter because how in the world could P/C have such a high technical score? I get their appeal on the artistic side, their long and flowing limbs really help create beautiful lines, and they are very expressive (but many of the top teams are as well). Aside from this, there is no originality in their programs. It's been done hundreds of times, though they do make this type of program look beautiful, I will give them that much.
ReplyDeleteHalf the teams in the top 20 are stronger technically than P/C. Gabriella barely ever gets off the ground, and when she does, she is almost strapped onto Guillaume. Their lifts are a joke for this level of competition. Also, they were once again very slightly out-of-sync coming out of their twizzles. Not as bad as the SD, but for an almost perfect score, it's a ridiculous oversight. V/M's twizzles were beyond perfectly executed. P/C spend most of their time skating around the ice with their arms floating on their sides. If this is what people call sport, then ice dancing needs to be booted out of the Olympics stat.
I have felt that the new scoring system has improved the "sport" somewhat, but IMO they need more levels. If P/C are getting level 4 on their "lifts", V/M should be getting at least level 8 on theirs, because they are easily twice as difficult.
Anyhow, now that I have vented, I'll just be happy that V/M won! I have been following them their whole career and they really do just get better and better. It's always amazing to watch them! I would much rather they have the gold than the WR. I'm also thrilled the Shibutanis got bronze. It's just too bad that it took extreme circumstance (fall, costume malfunctions) for both these teams to get their due.
The levels have been dumbed down since 2010. Look at DW's twizzles. Now look at P/C's lifts. Evaluate those two properly, both teams are out of contention. How come though, no team in 2014 did two twizzle sets but DW, if two twizzle sets were ok, and legimiately L4? How come this cycle no other team did the junior "lifts" that were in PC's programs?
DeleteIt's not a sport. It needs to be booted.
My daughter is a dancer and I can appreciate the dance quality of P/C but they really lack the athleticism, particularly Gabby. This is figure skating, not ballet, the skating should count for more. Otherwise, what is the point of this sport?
DeleteI remember reading an article on V/M and it said that Tessa had been offered at spot at National Ballet of Canada's school, one of the best ballet programs in the world, and that she turned it down to pursue ice dancing. Also, V/M dance so many different styles, and dance them all extremely well. So, there is a huge credibility issue with those who try to put down their dance skills vs P/C, in that they are expressing a personal preference vs an informed judgement.
I feel like these P/C fans who put down V/M's dance skills, especially Tessa's, seem to be new ones, or have forgotten that Tessa's ballet training actually shines through everything she does.It's in her carriage, the way she moves her arms/fingers, head/neck/shoulders. It's just that in recent years, she seems to have focused a bit more on modern/contemporary, but the quality of movement, the grace, is there.
DeleteV/M could do "flow-y". They've already done it in the past. They're capable of more, which is why they have always been exploring different styles.
Gabby absolutely cannot do what Tessa does. Skating skills, nope. (Needs more edge classes...) Lifts? P/C have okay lifts, but they're not V/M level, let's not delude ourselves.
Also, the more-dance oriented casual fans are forgetting something: ice dance is still figure skating, so you have to account for what's going on with the knees and the feet, and not just the upper body movement.
DeleteIt's very difficult for a fan to critique the skaters when the sport itself is in on the scam.
DeleteA note about what Skate Canada got out of helping to get Davis White the 2014 gold - they got Gadbois out of it, and trained-in-Canada world champs. Very typically Canadian skating, IMO, to get pissy that their skaters trained outside the country, and mostly by, OMG, Russians or former Russians.
OC 6:48- I remember seeing a video of Michael Slipchuck(?) saying that SC wanted to build training centres for their athletes so "they don't have to go abroad anymore because they'll have anything they need right here"
Deletehttp://judgingtheisu.blogspot.ca/2015/08/a-tale-of-two-mistreated-teams.html
DeleteThis post links to that video, as well as one with Tracy Wilson saying the same thing, and describes other signs from the 2014-15 season that SC was obsessed with having teams train in Canada. Obviously the move didn't pay off well for P/I.
Ditched at 2016 Nats anyways, then P/O magically getting tech minimums at 4CC so that they could go to Worlds instead. SC wanted nothing more than for P/I to disappear after Sochi.
P/I were far from their best selves at Gadbois, but I've long held a theory however it was they made the decision to move there, the upside for Gadbois and SC was to use them as sacrificial lambs to P/O. It's not impressive to just poach two Detroit teams and help them both move up; Gadbois needed to prove that it could create success from the grassroots, and P/O were a team D/L had been coaching from some of the earliest days of their Canadian coaching career. P/I in their dismal Gadbois era were still very obviously better skaters than P/O, but the sell (including from Tessa "they're so intellectual" Virtue) was about what D/L accomplished with the latter and P/I were the redheaded stepchildren they all preferred not to discuss.
DeleteSkate Canada had their asses shown when P/O SHOCKINGLY failed to make the free dance at the Worlds they should have only even been assigned to conditionally (what great luck 4CC was, finally scoring 29+ TES after only several years of trying). But Gadbois's making it up in the form of Soucisse/Firus, a sloppy team composed of one skater who had success at juniors (him) and one who had zero success at any level (her) who together are magically nearly equal to H/B internationally. As new Canada #2 with V/M and W/P probably both out, I'm sure they'll be scoring around 68 and 102 at Worlds.
And Lajoie/Lagha are Gadbois and Skate Canada's attempt to recreate V/M -- team together from young levels, now rocketing up the junior scene, being sold with record score narratives etc. Since they're juniors I won't weigh in with additional opinions but you can check out for yourself how well they stack up to the salesmanship.
Hahaha. Take that, Marina! Take that, Didier! Also, years from now, clueless newbie fans will take a look at the ice dance competitive records and go, wow, look at all those Olympic medals. So, take that, Davis/White! Virtue and Moir are now the greatest of all time!
ReplyDeleteAlso, take that, Jayne Torvill! V/M "overperforms"? At least they didn't milk their iconic programs to the last drop. While you and Dean still cling on to the past faded glory of "Bolero".
I actually *like* Bolero, but it's overexposed, especially with them always trotting it out for that Dancing On Ice reality competition. They're actually good, but they belong to the older school of ice dancing, definitely.
DeleteThey were kind of old-fashioned in 1994, the Russian skating style was being favored, and their British style of skating was probably viewed as musty/stodgy.
Well, I like Torvill Dean since they were completely edge centric. They also moved Ice Dance away from ballroom, which, in retrospect, I don't think was a good thing. But sour grapes isn't a good look on anyone. VM are better.
DeleteI wonder if Torvill frowns upon the "dramatic" skaters with great sexual/romantic-type chemistry (like the Russians she competed against). Although Bolero is pretty dramatic... But her chemistry with Dean was not like that of Grishuk/Platov, Usova/Zhulin or Klimova/Ponomarenko.
Delete@cherry blossom What an ugly human being you are. I'm disgusted and hope other VM fans are as well.
DeleteAWWWW poor you. Am I? why? for pointing out that T/D were P/C biased and never congratulated V/M for their win? and negative remarks of V/M. They deserve to be called out!
DeleteP/C also better watch out. With V/M's retirement, TPTB just might decide to create a new rival for them. Remember that the Russians are probably unhappy that their only probable individual medal(s) at this Olympics will be in Ladies. ISU will want a European team or teams on the Olympic podium again, and I believe Russia will be aiming for it.
ReplyDeleteAlso, narratives evolve all the time. They might want to change it up when it comes to their skating style, or else people will get bored and the new narrative will be that they can't manage versatility and are just one-note skaters.
That has already crept into the narrative with the excuse that what they do is so sublime it doesn't matter. I am still furious they won the free, since that is deeply insulting not just to VM, but to anyone who understands figure skating.
DeleteI admit I'm curious. Without VM to fuck over, what will motivate the ISU? Surely screwing over the Shibs won't be enough.
Russia want's revenge. They haven't had a gold medal in ice dance since 2006 and didn't even place here aswell as having the worst medal count in history overall. The chance P/C had for OG in 2022 is becoming even slimmer now. P/C better watch out indeed. who knows if they will be tossed in favour for an actually amazing team in the future or a propped up mediocre one. 4 years is a long way to go.
DeleteAlso, ice dance trends might change and veer away from P/C's preferred style now. Who's to say if the pendulum doesn't swing back to dramatic?
DeleteI wouldn't trust the Russians if I were Didier (though he probably knows that already). As soon as they feel they might have a viable young ice dance team, then the tides might turn against P/C.
Too early to really say anything about Beijing 2022, but I'd expect that the Chinese would want pairs gold on home soil. Russia will probably want to return to the podium for their old strongholds of pairs and dance. Team Canada will be rebuilding. US will play up Nathan Chen, and I wonder if Chock/Bates will continue (H/D probably will, don't know about Shibs). Japan will try to cling on to men's skating. I am curious how the politics will play out in the coming quad.
But OTOH, one of their women will always get the gold medal.Forever and ever Russians dominated every figure skating discipline but women's (I hate the term "ladies.). They broke through in 2014.
DeleteI'd love the Shibs to continue, but God it's difficult watching them be so superior and have to sweat out every point, while other teams can wave their arms around, do junior elements and get WR scores. I'm convinced they only broke through because audiences loved "Fix You". It's a popular song, it stays in your brain, the program built up to a great climax that everybody knew, and the judges and the sport had to take an adjustment in response to crowd reaction. There would have been too many boos if screwing the Shibs had continued with that program.
silence from jan torvill look at how quick they were to congratulate S/M but nothing yet from either jan or christopher. ISU P/C shills same on you. Bolero is boring anyways!
ReplyDeleteIt's absolutely a travesty that that fd was a point short of P/C's.
DeleteI feel that. !
ReplyDeleteAnd seriously, in our lifetimes, I'm not sure we will ever "officially" know they have 3 kids, but I'm pleased for them on that basis as well.
ReplyDeletekoola king coming through with P/C exposed videos:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D1PWLjGPEI&t=0s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IaFF3ClHwI
I scratch my head at P/C fans acting like their team invented the lyrical/contemporary style of ice dancing. Also, they're not really as versatile as V/M when it comes to the different ice dancing "ballroom" styles. And their attitudes about it stank (remember the remarks about "cliche" Latin?).
ReplyDeleteHonest question, was Valse Triste not a lyrical program? How about Umbrellas of Cherbourg? Also, speaking of UoC, 2008 Worlds V/M were better than P/C. The French can't even touch the difficulty level in a couple of those lifts.
Lyrical contemporary is the most common ice dance "style" because it's undisciplined, basically. You can throw everything in, and be ballet-IC, not strictly adhering to ballet movement. One of these days it needs to drop the "contemporary" as should anything that's over 50 years old or so.
DeleteMwahahahaha. It feels so good to be wallowing in P/C ubers' salty tears.
ReplyDeleteVery well said, OC :) *tears*
ReplyDeleteI have tried hard to understand this blog but I am so confused. I thought the blogger hates VM? The oroginal post were all about how they have a secret child and they are secretly married. He/she seems to hate Scott Moir. My head hurts from all of this. I was really intrigued because I too had noticed some indescrepencies in VM's interviews and the way they even act around each other so that is why I started to look at this blog. Can you maybe point me to when you changed your mind about them? Or were you just critical of their dealing with the public and not their actual on ice performances? Also the facebook stuff about Jessica Dube no longer exists. When was it taken down?
ReplyDeleteI think they appreciate their technical ability and know that they are 'the best', and are frustrated with the corruption in the sport and the direction it is heading.
DeleteThe author is also frustrated with the show that has been put on by V/M, and the people behind the whole shenanigans.
That's what I grasped while reading thru this whole blog the other evening.
1:36 a.m., this blog began as a way to critique and also satirize their nasty treatment of the public, specifically the flogging of Scott and Jessica via facebook and interviews. The blog has always seen Virtue and Moir as the greatest ice dancers in existence.
DeleteOf course along the way this place morphed to mock whatever sham relationship Scott was selling at the time, with the reality show a particular high point.
The only major way the blog ever changed was as regards Davis White. For maybe a year or more, I took it for granted they were runners-up to Virtue and Moir in ability, and even called out Team Virtue Moir for their sour grapes attitude when Davis White won worlds in 2011.
Then it occurred to me to actually look at Davis White's skating, which I hadn't previously done. They were doing the exact same program, exact same elements, done the exact same way, since 2009, and more and more skating had been removed from the content. It was a hopping, scampering, pulling, big-stepping, knee-sliding, arm-waving, side-by-side, miles apart, time and space killing joke. So the blog then became a great deal about the corruption in ice dance. It continued to call out the romantic sham of things, particularly when they came out with that hilarious reality show, but Scott hasn't shammed in about two years now. Team Moir got rid of Jessica after Worlds 2012, so while she's always a good time to make fun of, the name of the blog stands now for the whole mess in figure skating and not Jessica and Scott specifically.
(Speaking of making fun of Jessica, you posted last spring about why she would be home and posting about feeling sad, and concluded that she had been fired. Perhaps you didn't read the comments because you might wish to amend or take down the post - there had been a death in her family.)
DeleteI didn't know about the death but followed up that my speculation she was done with cruise life was off base. Thanks for letting me know; it makes sense to take that down.
DeleteYou're welcome, good call.
Deletelol this slip from Scott at 2:35
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/A70_0rKsT_U
I don't think he ever actually slips. He says stuff, Tessa smirks or near smirks, and everybody moves on. Unless a tabloid has a reason to go after them, there is no such thing as a slip because nobody will officially react.
DeleteI'm so happy, and still in complete disbelief. Once that bullshit FD score for P/C came up, it was just so obvious the fix was in. I knew the fucking judges would overscore P/C to make up the 1.7 points from the short dance. I had a minor heart attack when "2" showed beside V/M's FD placement, and it didn't fully process until Scott's reaction.
ReplyDeleteI'm sooooooooooooooooooooo happy for V/M, and so happy for the Shibs. I would be happier still if Shibs got silver and P/C were off the podium entirely, but small mercies.
Yay!!!!!!
I like that Scott didn't give a fuck about the scores or breakdown as he knows they're all a lot of crap. He and Tessa were like marathon runners having to compete with the person who took the subway.
DeleteScott said in a post-FD interview that he feels free ('cause he never has to look at a score breakdown ever again). If coaching is in his future, though, that may be inescapable. But who knows? Maybe he'll stick to teaching basic skills to little kids. :)
DeleteThey're kind of stuck as long as his family remains so heavily in the Skate Canada pipeline, but at least he doesn't have to care about his own scores if they do retire.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteRE; P/C's SD--I have read on skating blogs that their fans are actually accusing Tessa or someone from her "team" of sabotaging Gabby's costume. ?! And as far as the score that P/C got in the SD, someone on GS said that they would have given them even more points than they earned, because they "felt bad" for the costume malfunction. Since when were pity points part of the judging criteria? I'm trying very hard not to have major schadenfreude today.
ReplyDeleteP/C ubers are delusional about those *pity* points.
DeleteAlso, if they have to blame somebody for that costume malfunction, they should be pointing fingers at Guillame. He's the one who designed that dress. Tessa didn't need to 'sabotage' Gabriella's costume -- Cizeron's wannabe designer ass did that on his own. Didn't they test drive the stupid thing first? Kurt Browning allegedly said that the dress had been problematic in practice before. Like I said, P/C fans are delusional. And ridiculous.
When I read this tweet from The Skating Lesson yesterday, the sad thing is that I didn't discount that it could be true. But thank God that it didn't work out that way. V/M couldn't be denied, that's how good they are!
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/SkatingLesson/status/965277649336700929
Talk about irony. Didier Gailhaguet is accusing the Canadian judge of cheating. Wasn't this the same individual who was handed a two year suspension for his role in the 2002 Olympic judging debacle? Never let it be said he lacks a sense of humour. He is just upset his plan to elevate P/C to Olympic gold never came to fruition.
ReplyDeletesport24.lefigaro.fr/le-scan-sport/2018/02/20/27001-20180220ARTFIG00/11-papadakis-et-cizeron-leses-dans-la-notation-par-une-judge-canadienne.php
As long as he has that 13th place French team anywhere near a championship podium at any time, Didier should keep his mouth shut. But happy to see the sport is giving up all pretense of meritocracy.
DeleteWhat was truly scandalous about the 2002 pairs event was the opposite of what everyone was gnashing their teeth about. IMO the fix was in for Sale Peletier, but the Russians had much more difficult programs such that a wobble on a jump landing from Anton could not deny them. It was beyond a reasonable outcome, yet the uproar and outrage IMO suggested a deal had been broken. It seems clear to me they hunted for and produced a scapegoat and have waved her around ever since.
If P/C possessed the skating skills of Anissina/Peizerat we wouldn't be having this discussion. It is rather strange that P/C go from 15th to 1st in the span of a year. It will be interesting going forward to see if they continue to be rewarded for their below average skills.
DeleteRosie Dimanno has a good article today calling out the judging, esp. US judge Sharon Rogers, who was on both panels. S&T were really lowballed on PCS.
Deletehttps://www.thestar.com/sports/olympics/2018/02/19/canadas-ice-dance-darlings-virtue-and-moir-capture-olympic-gold-in-pyeongchang.html
I hope TSN and other media bring up receipts of his scandalous past. He has no room to talk. And if he persists, I hope the Canadian media (and others) will point out his utter hypocrisy and how the man who was part of the 2002 scandal should not be throwing stones. I hope Canadians will unleash their passive-aggressiveness and DRAG him.
DeleteIf they are going to investigate the Canadian judge, then they should apply the same scrutiny to ALL the other judges, especially the one from the USA, Sharon Rodgers. The French judge propping up their countrymen I kind of understand, but the marks from Rodgers are suspicious (and points to a deal having been brokered). Sometimes I feel that she has leftover animosity from the D/W days. So ha, take that, Sharon Rodgers, your best efforts have come to nothing.
Unfortunately for the machinations of TPTB, they couldn't control that V/M skated the heck out of their short. They couldn't control the draw for the skate order. They couldn't control that V/M gave the free dance of their lives, and the utterly fantastic & warm reception by the (mostly) Korean crowd.
And the funny thing is, I read on Golden Skate that allegedly Kurt said that Papadakis' costume had come undone in practice before. Her federation should have sorted *that* out. Heck, they should have double-checked and triple-tested her partner's designs. *That* was preventable.
8:48, the reason it's possible to go from 14 to 1st is skating fans are conditioned to believe one magic program can vault a team from top 20 to top of the podium. Oh, they found the right package! Figure skating pro-actively encourages this sort of discussion. I've never seen a sport where an informed fan base or informed media is less welcome.
DeleteP.S., apart from the program fulfilling the required dance and rhythm style, the only way a program makes a difference, IMO, is if the skater(s) are comfortable skating it, it feels natural to their bodies, frees up their movement, etc. If something isn't comfortable, they'll tighten up. Weaver & Poje are a good example here. They have tried to stretch themselves, but are really not as versatile as they've tried to be. I think "The Statue" ended up the most seamless skating they've ever presented when they finally got themselves together to deliver at Worlds. "Je Suis Malade" is the last thing they need with the body tension conveying angst. For Virtue and Moir, I think they like their imagination to be engaged by the music and the story they're telling, and to play with highlights, momentum, contrast, etc.
Delete(How some of the music they skate to in exhibitions does it for them is an enduring mystery.)
I've often wondered why Madison Chock went with the "nice" guy (as Marina Zoueva described it) versus the best looking guy, and then Shpilband proceeded to create sex, drama and more sex for them. I always thought Evan Bates looked and felt ridiculous. It doesn't MATTER - a program is a program - unless the packaging inhibits a skater from their best skating. I think they became a more cohesive team over time, but not better skaters.
@9:15am Rosie's article nailed it! thanks for sharing
DeleteYears ago Rosie would have taken a page and a half to say bullshit - she's learned to get to the point a whole lot quicker, and then get out. She's right this time.
DeleteArticles mentioning Kurt having talked about problems with the costume:
ReplyDeletehttps://olympics.cbc.ca/news/article/wardrobe-malfunction-leaves-french-ice-dancer-exposed-olympics.html
http://www.totalprosports.com/2018/02/19/french-skater-gabriella-papadakis-chest-got-exposed-after-wardrobe-malfunction-video/
The CBC tweet referenced in both articles:
"Gabriella Papadakis experiences a costume malfunction with her dress for the second time this week, according to @KurtBrowning
The clasp at the back of her halter snapped.
Bad luck and a distraction for the experienced French pair. pic.twitter.com/F6quTbadWu
— CBC Olympics (@CBCOlympics) February 19, 2018"
P/C was a (perceived) gold medal contender (blech). Why did no one fix their costume problem? Surely Didier had resources at their disposal? His Olympic plotting was undone by an undone clasp, ha.
Even though I think it's absurd they were in podium contention, there is something about careless costuming that syncs up well with their careless skating.
DeleteIndeed, LOL.
DeleteI utterly dislike Sandra Bezic, but I would absolutely cheer her on if she drags Didier by reminding people of the Salt Lake City judging scandal. Get your Canadian on, Sandra!
ReplyDeleteIf papadakis andncizeroon weren’t such brats who believed the bullshit about them- sthg Davis and white never did they always knew they were subpar and didn’t care they just wanTed a payout and they were for sale- I would feel sorry for dress issue. But no it was best case if emperors new clothes and just desserts as that smug loser Madison. Sometimes there’s justice and that’s what we all witnessed and simply cannot believe it.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry about what happened to Gabby. Really? But, Call it the universe or higher power, it seems to work in favour of v/m because of all the BS that they've had to endure to get where they are. You do good and you'll be rewarded good.
DeleteToo true about Davis White. They knew the deal. Charlie bobs and weaves more than Rhonda Russo every time he's asked "Did you know you'd won? Did you know you'd skated a gold medal skate?" His answer is always "Blah blah everyone deserves it for all the support they gave us." I wonder how a couple of inferior athletes can justify it, but I actually know even a 15th place (in ability) athlete would justify it. Makes me think of semi-outliar Sarah Hughes who said something like, "I'd have been a lot happier w/a bronze than I think Michelle [Kwan] is."
DeleteThe free skate scores for P/C were flat out evil. Ice dance needs to start putting difficulty back in the sport - you don't need to take a goddamn pause before changing direction in a non-pattern dance element. You don't need to squeeze so much skating out of the program that it becomes an as brief as possible component of what is meant to be the skating program, and the rest of the time you can just do your faking it bullshit (like P/C's twizzle exits). Let's not invent and allow "features" in elements that actually make them easier while helping you hide your flaws. Let's not allow one team to do basically everything two-footed and clutching on for dear life while anyone else who tries it won't be able to get past qualifying.
If the French stay in, wonder if they'll be held up through 2022 or if ice dance will have to strip programs of even more skating - let alone skating difficulty - to help along the next It team.
Papadakis and Cizeron are even worst than Meryl and Charlie. Much before they started being boosted to the top, D/W managed to get among the top ten in their first senior worlds (I think they were 7th, while V/M were 4th). At least they owned their mistakes and did not try to pass them as "art".
DeleteI felt a bit sorry for Gabriella for being exposed like that, but then she reminded us what a sore loser she is. I don't get why they would think they were robbed after being overscored at their short dance (I mean, other skaters would have their levels lowered on unsynchronized twizzles and one of them doing an extra spin, but P/C seem to be rewarded for it). But they always do this. Well, Gabriella does it, Guillaume seems to be more polite, at least. You can see in other events, if they are not in the top spot, she does not make any effort to disguise her discontent. Very imature.
I think when they got picked to be on top and were handled, out of nowhere, two world titles, they stopped making any effort to get better. In all honesty, I actually like their "To build a home" performance (but that may be because I really like the song), but can't understand what is so innovative about the other performances. V/M have done romantic/lyrical performances for years and so much better (Valse Triste, Umbrellas of Cherbourg, Mahler adagio, The Seasons) and any russian skaters put P/C to shame when dancing to classical music.
Then they come with that bullshit that their skating is ethereal and philosophical, but what it is is just pretensious, there is nothing philosophical about it (I have a major degree in philosophy. If you wanna see a philosophical routine, take a look at the Shibutanis' "Evolution" performance, that is a masterpiece! Or Weaver/Poje routine to "On the Nature of Daylight". Or V/M "Great gig in the sky" performance from 10 years ago. Even Hubbel/Donohue "Adagio for Tron").
So V/M came out of their break skating better than ever and just messed with the whole stability of the ice dance world. With the exception of the Shibutanis, who always worked hard,I guess most of the other teams had to get out of their comfort zone and put some extra effort into their performances to try to match up V/M versatility and skating skills.Which was great for the sport, we saw another side to Chock/Bates, much better than all they did before; Gilies/Poirier also had great performances. But P/C remained doing the same thing over and over again, probably thinking they would have a guaranteed top spot on the podium. I hope they learned a lesson after all.
Tessa and Scott have been saying in interviews that they came back with complete control of their own narrative. I think that is a subtle way to say that they knew what they were getting themselves into (the overscoring of some teams in spite of others, the judges corruption) but they were willing to do everything in their power to make this corruption schemes a lot more difficult to be done. You can see that in the olympics. Despite some saying the judges were in their favor, you just have to check the score boards to realize it was the other way around.They barely won because the judges could not take too many points out of them. The fraud would be too obvious if they took more than a few decimals, given V/M almost perfect performances.
To all those salty p/c uber fans, didier or anyone who actually opposed v/m's medal win, fight back by flooding the social media with a good video performance comparison of elements between v/m and p/c, especially in SD, then let them try to justify how end scores and performance does compute/fair. Even without wardrobe malfunction, they were literally awarded higher scores on elements that would have been marked lower for others. On top of that, fight back his accusation of Canadian judge being "discriminatory" towards his darling by showing judges scores between v/m and p/c scores. No way in hell that'll fly because it proves v/m were more in the discriminate than them especially in PCS. Again, how the heck did they score higher in TES????
ReplyDeleteAlso please explain how the scores between v/m's skated clean (and difficulty) SD in team event could rate way lower than p/c's riddled-with-mistakes-and-junior- lift SD in the Individual event. This isn't about feels (which v/m was accused of in the past before) but more about SKATING SKILLS.
DeleteBecause the scoring is bullshit. Every bug in PC's skating becomes a feature.
Delete11:32 a.m. I keep reading about programs, and about "dance" from people who know nothing about dance, or maybe their sister dances. Skating is just assumed. Why doesn't everybody just find a coach that'll package them "properly" - it will automatically elevate their TES, give them SS from the Gods and +3 GOES no matter what. That's how 90% of the fans think the sport should work. I think skaters do as well. "Oh, we're not so much worse than VM." VM are just good at the razzle dazzle.
DeleteIn the days when I watched Dancing with the Stars, I had a conversation with somebody who is decently versed in dance, and she said that often dancers aren't good judges. They value different things, may not be inherently musical beyond knowing how to count, and may not always understand themselves what they do well and what they don't.
"...often dancers aren't good judges. They value different things, may not be inherently musical beyond knowing how to count, and may not always understand themselves what they do well and what they don't."
DeleteThis is certainly true. From my years as a ballet fan, I have come across dancers who are truly spellbinding in their musicality, and dancers who are obviously just going through the motion of hitting the beats. And I have read on ballet forums, as well as articles about different dancers/choreographers, that they have very diverse opinions on what they value in dance. There are also those who insist on doing certain kinds of roles/styles that really do not suit them. Like a ballerina who would insist on doing demanding classical roles even if she doesn't have the skills to back it up.
This reminds me of when Icenetwork used to have its annual "Ask a TV dancer their opinion of 5 of this season's free dances" story that would somehow always not favor V/M compared with D/W or P/C.
DeleteI think smart dancers who work in collaboration w/ skating choreographers can be a help with a team off the ice or in actually crafting a program -- V/M with Jen Swan and JMG, and Benji Schwimmer and Serge Onik have also done pretty well moving into skating choreo from swing and ballroom. But what the Icenetwork articles tended to expose was how little value firsthand dance experience had in evaluating a skating program, if you know absolutely nothing of skating and can only "judge" programs on the non-technical merits.
And yet the rise of P/C and the permeation of the Gadbois style feels like one big effort to attract the "let's focus on floaty arms" crowd and not "let's actually do something technically skillful as skaters." It's as if the ISU decided it was very important now that Paul Karmiryan consistently praise ice dance programs on a skating website. If you moved P/C's programs to the floor, they'd still be empty crap instead of "art" because P/C lack the correct technique to be ballet or contemporary dancers. And there is MAJOR, honed technique required no matter how much dancers and critics themselves will talk about emotion -- because the technique is supposed to be a given, and it's rare that it's poor enough to get called out. But P/C instead are in just the right position that one who wants to can handwave all the foot stuff -- it's skating, not real dance! -- and focus on shapes and faces, and plenty of people are ignorant enough about skating, and uncurious enough about dance in its varieties (even a single strong ballet company might present more styles in one mixed program's line-up than P/C have managed in four years), to buy it year in and year out. It's pathetic but pretty typical.
12:37 - Yes. Some time back I was reading a discussion about Missy Copeland on a dance forum, where her attributes as a dancer were being discussed. It appeared to be a reasonably informed debate among people who were in the dance world, familiar with dance and the dance world, shared a vocabulary and frame of reference, yet they could not agree.
Delete10:27am, I remember that crap with the TV dancers. Let's discuss everything about ice dance but the skating. Still true, even when former skaters are supposed to be talking about the skating while commenting on a skating program. They mash so much bullshit together even the few remarks about the actual blade work is out of context.
Curious what style will come next. The secret to P/C is even if they are zamboni-ing the ice, they show no tension in their bodies. Apparently 1970s-1980ish US champion Janet Lynn was like this (although she, as all singles skaters did back then, had superb fundamental skating skills). She's fall on her ass, her blonde bangs would sort of flop to the ground after her, she's smile, and it practically seemed part of the program. Most skaters carry tension. Tessa's intensity markedly increases, or used to, if something happened, she doubles down on her focus and her face freezes a bit. P/C are sort of flower-childreny out there, but what the hell does that have to do with their skating. The stiffest part of both of them is actually their knees on down, which is absurd. But the imperviousness of their upper body relaxation is what sold them. I'm wondering what other non-skating attribute is out there in some mediocre team waiting in the spotlight, that the sport can package to distract from the actual skating.
PC's oh so innovative "signature" program was lifted from a 1990s contemporary ballet that was a lot more about strength and shapes and a whole lot less about movement. Le Parc, I think. Their fans absolutely deny it, but come on. Everything they've done since is Le Parc in different costumes. IMO Le Parc is visually interesting but that's about it. It's two dimensional.
DeleteDid anyone else get the sense that VM went into the final skate knowing they were about to be screwed and genuinely expecting to finish second? I got a real "if that's how they're going to do us, then fuck it, we'll go out on our own terms" vibe which was why they did the original lift and why Scott seemed to not realize that they had won until after the place was announced. I agree, Tessa took Sochi a little harder and I think as a result she knew exactly the number they needed here and knew they had won as soon as the score was announced.
ReplyDeleteI try not to think about it too hard. He was thrilled out of his mind with that skate, but he was also thrilled about their short dance performance in Sochi - lost his mind with happiness, and I don't know if that was because they were fabulous or he (wrongly) thought they couldn't be denied. After the GPF I doubt it was the latter.
DeleteI read they went back to the "porno" lift because they didn't get a worthwhile increase in points for the altered version, although I definitely love to think they were flipping the bird. They did it so incredibly quickly you can't really say she was sitting up there - it came across as completely transitional.
Scott was squinting at the board. My impression/memory is he can calculate the numbers a whole lot faster than most people - he's good with them, so he may have been looking for something in particular and editing out every other statistic. When he saw it, he jumped.
I didn't know what I was going to do if the French won....for my own personal good and those around me, it's really, really, really good VM won.:) After living through D/W's absolute shit skating for so many years, I wasn't going to survive another Emperor With No Clothes in P/C. VIRTUE AND MOIR FOREVER.
ReplyDeleteHave you seen the ceremony right after the free dance (without the medals)? When Papadakis/Cizeron went to the podium after their names were called, they didn't even bother to shake hands with Maia and Alex Shibutani, just went straight to the podium from the back. It's normal to shake hands of the other skaters and then go to the podium. They are so ARROGANT, they act like spoiled brats.
ReplyDeleteI did notice that. I didn't quite read it as "arrogant", though this pair certainly gives me entitled vibes. Not quite "warm" (or maybe I'm more used to North American "openness"). It might quite simply be that they were still a little dazed from having their gold medal hopes overthrown.
Deletenah, in her case she believed she was robbed. the shot of them backstage after the scores were announced said it all. the only visible emotion they projected was salty-ness. she never looked sad, she never smiled.
DeleteI felt a bit sorry for Gabriella for being exposed like that, but then she reminded us what a sore loser she is. I don't get why they would think they were robbed after being overscored at their short dance (I mean, other skaters would have their levels lowered on unsynchronized twizzles and one of them doing an extra spin, but P/C seem to be rewarded for it).
DeleteBut they always do this. Well, Gabriella does it, Guillaume seems to be more polite, at least. You can see in other events, if they are not in the top spot, she does not make any effort to disguise her discontent. Very imature.
Still grates unbelievably that these two were lifted to a position where they actually think they could justifiably defeat Virtue and Moir. Virtue and Moir continue to kiss their ass and I haven't read or heard a peep of reciprocation.
DeleteIt's a shame for the french team and it's a shame there is some perception that if it's not gold it's nothing. They won a silver medal at the olympics and they won the free skate. How can anyone say they were robbed. Robbed by who? V/M? the judges?
DeleteThey messed up the twizzles yesterday - it was a very obvious error even for a lay viewer. Many people think that was more like a 3 -4 point error. It distracted from the performance; their PCS should have been lower It's a shame it happened to them but at the end of the day the costume is up to the skater. Other skaters' should not have to suffer because someone's costume malfunctioned.
I was watching the FD with Hungarian commentary and the commentator explicitly said after VM's program (but before their scores) that "If fair judging exists, they should win, but we've seen many examples for interesting scoring in ice dance. Still, in 20 years noone will remember the French FD, but they will definitely remember many of VM's programs." So yeah, besides the actual final results, this was also pretty refreshing to hear.
ReplyDeleteThe iconic Moonlight Sonata skate belongs to Gordeeva and Grinkov.
DeleteYes, that was a brilliant program, and when I look back at it I wonder where skating skills like that have gone, although the reality is skating skills like theirs were rare back then. But the freaking speed in and out of elements. They had to hockey stop (immaculately, of course) to the end of their long program - they flew through it. Obviously the lyrical parts featured a soft, extended glide, but that glide was supersonic in speed and covered mega ice.
DeleteThen I look at the end of Savchenko and Massot's skate, which of course had more difficult content as far as required elements, and they were glacial in the final ten seconds of that lift.
That free dance was an absolutely stunning performance, and whoever put together the re-worked ending did a wonderful job. Wonder if it was David Wilson.
DeleteI agree the free dance was everything I could hope for them and even more. The best part is how butt hurt FSU and GS are that Tessa and Scott won and even worse that they went viral and were the talk of the skating competition.
DeleteConsidering how often we had to hear how white-bread and boring they are, I have to chuckle that the general public thought they melted the ice they were so hot. Just shows how smart the snobs on the boards are. I am also loving how pissed off they are that their favourites lost. A certain board admin is really losing his shit about the results and how much attention Tessa and Scott are getting. I love it!
I am so glad the ice dance event is over. I have no horse in the other 3 disciplines so I can watch the women without any stress. Looks like it might be 1-2 for the Russians. They're not the ones I like to watch, though. I prefer Kostornaia and Gubanova.
ReplyDeleteI am enjoying this blog so much so thank you, I’m learning a lot about ice dance and it actually validated most anyone with eyes at how so superior this team is to anyone ice dancing out there. My reflection is on the other more interesting revelations about their personal life. If it is true about the marriage and kids as far back as 2009 I can only say that the families closed ranks for a huge reason. Many back then would have been very upset that teenagers who have obvious affection for each other be encouraged to explore it by moving away together where they are not under constant supervision but that young hormones would be raging. This isn’t just a young love, being so young would be a huge scandal that would implicate the coaches and their parents as approving of their extracurricular activity for the benefit of their sport. So forgive me if I’m nott upset at this team for bald face lies to their fans. Again, if all of this is true then it’s more about a systemic cover up of which Scott and Tessa are pawns. To me if all of this is true then SC may have thought it appropriate to want to keep young teams skating in Canada, because if this broke while they were in Canton, I think there would have been a huge investigation into why coaches and parents and SC turned a blind eye while their children were involved to the point of pregnancy. Further I don’t doubt the sport sees their greatness as athletes, but I also believe the pettiness around the scoring is reflective of the politics of potentially making a system look negligent when dealing with youth. Just my two cents. It’s more than Scott and Tessa it’s an entire system that encourages sex because they looked so hot on ice together. For the adults running this sport and involved That’s not only lurid and unseemly it’s a very cynical way to exploit their innocence for glory and potential monetary gain
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