Saturday, January 18, 2014

Lifts

What I really want to do is embed Paul Islam's free dance to compare with Davis White's free dance. The usual problem with comparing Davis White to much much lower ranked teams is the programs of much lower ranked teams don't often feel complete. They're a combination of what the team executes very well and other things that are raw. When I can get an embed of PI's fd, that'll be a post.

ETA - Thanks to the person who steered me to P/I's Canadians free on youtube. Here they both are - DW's and P/I's:





I was going to put DW first, then PI, but I think the difference is even more striking if you look at the "lesser" team first, and then DW. Immediately you notice DW are miles apart and are doing the most elementary in betweens, and most of their elements - not to mention the rest of it - in design and in execution - don't approach the level of difficulty of design in P/I's elements, let alone execution. Furthermore, Meryl and Charlie would come crashing to the ice if required to skate as closely together, with as much variation in direction and hold, and with as little preparation, as P/I are able to deliver so seamlessly in this performance. And please notice P/I's ice coverage. They're into the ice, they have big curves; they're covering that rink, they're not skating small.

I'm not pushing P/I here, because the same goes for VM. But it's instructive to look at a THIRD place Canadian team not anticipated to make the podium, who do every single thing better than DW.

Yet DW will win the gold, and VM will be silver, and P/I will make a "good showing." Unbelieveable. Unlike pairs, singles, etc., you still can't "move up" in dance even when you're superior. That's how it's been for decades, that's how the ISU had decided it should remain.

DW's skating is dumbed down but they've polished it, and they're rewarded for doing dumbed down stuff with polish. Lower ranked teams who combine admirable stuff with raw tend to expose themselves - lesser difficulty, or areas with good level of difficulty executed awkwardly.

In Paul Islam, we have a lower ranked team that didn't make Worlds last season, and finished third at Canadians this year. They're definitely not expected to podium in Sochi, and may possibly make top ten, but nobody anticipates top five. They are, however, complete. They have a high level of difficulty, and they're polished. They're a good point of comparison.

WHY are DW number 1? The skating at Canadians was so good, it begs the question of not just why DW are consistently beating VM, but why they're beating any number of teams.

At the moment, it's the lifts that are driving me crazy. I look at that fucking backpack, and that ridiculous fetal lift, and then look at the exquisite lifts the Canadians show in their programs, the control of their bodies in space as they execute, and the smooth run of their blades, and could just scream.

Skating fans are certainly powerless, that's for sure. More than any other sport.

I don't think skating fans (or any sports fans) should control outcomes. But a sport owes its public full explanations of results, explanations that refer to its own rule book and standards/critieria to shed light on scoring. Not abruptly claim the scoring is all about subjective arbitrary bullshit when it suits someone's agenda.

Whatever "floating" effect it used to have
has pretty much gone down the crapper.
With this lift, whatever audience response there is, is forced. Not so forced as when DW's own cheering section screamed on cue during the GP, but the way something is forced when people are told something is spectacular, and they don't want to be contradictory, so the cheer becomes obligatory, but lacking in real energy.  He's just slapping her onto his shoulder.

Not only have better ice dancers rotated directly
into the upside down position without curling up into a ball
and clinging onto their partner, but look at
Meryl's legs. They're crossed at the ankles. She can't
hold the position without locking herself in. Her
entire freaking body is pasted to Charlie; her core
is girdled by Charlie, and yet she can't manage her leg
position, which is merely straight up, gravity working
in her favor. That's ridiculous.
Paul Islam.
I mean, come on. She skates into it while changing direction,
she uses core strength and control of her body in space, and
the she also uses her OWN core as her point of rotation to

change position. There is minimal redundancy/external
stability, and she has complete control of her body/limbs.
She's completely exposed in that position. She
has to stablize her hips, core, and topline.
Her entire body is fully extended.

Great speed. Exits on a running edge.
All we need to know is the way Alexandra Paul changes
from the lateral position to over her partner's shoulder.
Why isn't she clutching and pushing herself up there?
How can Mitch Islam extend a free arm the immediate
instant she's in place? Don't they want to move up
in the ranks? Start clutching, you two.
P.S. - notice, when in position, how far her core
extends past the plane of Islam's shoulder, instead of what
we've seen with Meryl in past lifts using this pose - arms,
shoulders, head and neck peering over Charlie's shoulder line
while the rest of her (chest included) remains pasted against
Charlie's back.
Look where Alexandra Paul's chest is in this position.
Also, note the stability of Islam's edges in the curve.
I don't LOVE it, but she's rotating around her own core
instead of pulling a Meryl, which is clinging to her partner while
he in turn clutches her and hoists her up. What Kaitlyn does here is
impossible for Meryl. Meryl can't rotate into position. She
can't stablize her own body with a balance point. She needs
external resistance at multiple points and she can't work at
even a minor distance from her center of gravity. She can't control
her limbs.

,
Not the greatest but skates into it, and kicks DW ass
in independent control of body and limbs.
Their problem is they lack the
"wow" factor. Right, Evegny?
What other sport can get away with
actually gaslighting the public?
Ice dance should not be an Olympic sport. I definitely believe the sport knows it can't get away with this again for awhile, and will cloak itself in edge-centric piety in the next quad.

Also, ice dance is the only figure skating discipline with multiple instances of undefined criteria in the rulebook that the judges can use to elevate an inferior team. But WHY? The other three disciplines all have explicitly defined standards and criteria.

The one standard that is inarguable - superior stroking, blade run and ice coverage, is simply disregarded.

____________________
P.S. - something else re lifts: In the best lifts, when the women is changing position or entering a lift, her partner "assists". He provides leverage, a point of rotation, he might assist her momentum, but it's all "assisting" something she's already generated and set in motion. This is even true, this year, of Gilles Poirier, for God's sake.

Charlie White is not "assisting" Meryl Davies. What Meryl Davies does is contort herself into a position that enables Charlie White to sling her up, actually heave her up, or muscle her up. Naturally, this means they get the highest base value for their lifts and the highest possible GOE.

59 comments:

  1. OC can you just comment on VM's FD at canadian nationals? particularly the lifts PLEASE?!!!!

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    1. Seriously, what is your deal? This is like, the fiftieth time you've written this type of post. Enough already.

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  2. I was in Ottawa for Nationals, and I was blown away by P/I. They impressed me in the same way I first laid eyes on V/M back in 2006 when they skated Valse Triste at TEB. I remember Barbara Underhill's commentary clearly: "They have some of the best skating skills in the world". They've only gotten better since.

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  3. Hi OC thanks for the GIFs...indeed interesting...with regards to DWs second gif - that sequence must be bordering on a time violation...

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    1. Yes, thanks for the gifs. The truth is right there. I mean, how can anyone look at those gifs and not see that DW are inferior to these teams in their lifts (well, in other things as well, but the focus here is the lifts). I mean, you don't have to know much about the sport to see that.

      I had to laugh at one of the biggest DW supporters posting the following:
      "As someone who feels B/S have absolutely atrocious skating skills for a team in the top ten, let alone being considered for an Olympic medal...If I/K fall...again, and B/S can't polish their old FD in time, the judges might be forced to do the right thing and give the Bronze medal to a deserving team."

      um, BS have their issues but they still have better skating skills than DW, and lol at "a deserving team"...like DW? Of course you are allowed to say this stuff about BS but heaven forbid you question DW's skating and results.

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  4. Everything about D/W's lifts is ridiculous, especially the fetal ball lift. The entrance, the pose and especially the exit, when she is flung around on his back, splayed legs flying about, is just insane.

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    1. It looks as unsteady now as it did at the beginning of the season...but it looks hard, and that is what matters--at least when your names are Davis and White.

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  5. I think paul islam is really quite amazing.

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    1. There's nothing about their straight-line lift I don't love.

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  6. im crossing fingers paul islam make top 6-8.

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  7. i wish scott would extend his legs better in the Straightline like he did at GPF. gosh them losing GPF was an absolute crime. http://31.media.tumblr.com/08c09d0f7bb08c9d30883867c9e6a800/tumblr_mxfwjfjYFO1qc5l9co1_500.jpg
    yep definitely now wow factor here. thanks platov.

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    1. Anon at 5:50 pm - I agree with you. But please note that this lift is so ridiculously hard because their center of gravity and point of equilibruim is at a greater distance away from Scott's body than PI's. But holycow when DW do a lift - Meryl is literally velcroed to Charlie. Ironically its the only time that they are close in a program.

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    2. and his blades still rock even when she is velcroed to him. the usfsa must be so eager for gold and money that they're willing to destroy the sport.

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    3. How funny is it that Platov thinks doing a spread eagle while a girl is changing positions is so much more amazing and difficult than in his times (true), but then claims to prefer DW who do all of that with poor blade control for the guy and poor control over her limbs from the girl?

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    4. @7:25, I think all the former ice dance champs and present-day coaches know VM are superior skaters and dancers. But the ISU is rewarding DW, skaters who do not exhibit the qualities of ice dance champions, and Platov can see that. It's politics talking. My interpretation is that the preference he expressed was for the program, not necessarily the team. The 'wow' Olympic program (*roll eyes*). I don't get why he didn't mention Carmen (quite gasp-worthy), which blows Schez out of the water. I really don't get why certain DW fans are shipping them, they have no romantic/sexual chemistry...

      As an aside, I cringe at the 'wow' term, as it reminds me of Michelle Kwan awkwardly talking about Yu-Na (she has the 'wow' factor) at 2009 Worlds.

      Skate Canada are unsurprisingly mum on the matter, as they want that first Canadian men's OGM badly. Tracy's muzzled by her NBC contract; I have no idea about Kurt. Of the retired Canadian skaters, it's Jeff Buttle who has been in VM's corner. No Canadians are bringing it up, not Dubreuil/Lauzon, not Bourne/Kraatz.

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  8. imo d/w's shez can be best described as overhyped mediocrity.

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    1. Seriously...and that "perfect" mark they got at Nationals won't be broken anytime soon, which means they will be on the record books as the team with the "highest" scores. Blegh.

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    2. Only the USFS record books. Those scores won't count as personal best or world records internationally, thank God.

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    3. Ugh, but they "earned" a world record at GPF, and I'm sure they will "exceed" that in Sochi.

      This is so depressing.

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    4. Yeah, that was just pure bullshit. Some on twitter posted the protocol from 2012 Worlds. D&W got 0s and a few -1 on the rumba pattern. Just cause it sucked! No stumbles. WTF happened in two years?

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    5. And P/B were nipping at their heels in the SD in Nice. Are we supposed to believe that D/W got so much better and P/B got so much worse since then? Such a crock.

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    6. it is very depressing considering mediocrity is so overscored.

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    7. I remember being so excited that the gap between PB and DW was just about as big as that between DW and VM at 2012 Worlds. I thought 2013 would be a great year, especially once Carmen and Notre Dame were debuted. What a fucking crime.

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    8. what pisses me off is that no big news media has picked this up - epecially the shady judging at gpf. there should be a shitstorm

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    9. You have to wonder if all the ham-fisted politking of the USFSA will blow up in their faces, or somebody doesn't play along somewhere along the line. Meryl was interviewed immediately after the FD at Nationals, and the smugness on her face when she said "we are aiming for gold this time" made me want to punch her in the face.

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    10. She was SO smug there. She said something "we're going to EARN the gold this time, we're working so HARD to earn it."

      There was a recent interview with Urmanov in which he said Kurt never won an Olympics because he walked around like he already won the title. I so hope that DW's hubris gets them in the end.

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    11. I really, really, REALLY hope that the skating gods shine on V/M's skating in Sochi (and all the dance teams that actually skate, for that matter). I can't bear the thought of D/W "winning" on so many levels.

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    12. @7:10, I was so excited after worlds in 2012 because of VM's win and how close PB, IMO, the real #2 team in the world behind VM, were to DW in scores. They had beaten DW in TES in the SD and I thought maybe the nonsense in judging was turning around. It was crushing to see what happened last season and has continued on into this one.

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    13. ok everyone knows meryl is full of herself but was it necessary to say that you want to punch her in the face??? that is too much. also what does "we're aiming for gold this time" even mean. werent you aiming for gold last time too???

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    14. PB should have won silver that year. Some of the judges may have given DW the scores they deserved on the patterns (though, imo, they should have been lower--Meryl's edges were very shallow), they still gave them huge PCS for a dance that was not Latin at all--a dance that wasn't even a dance. They looked really stiff and awkward and just flung their bodies around. Compare that to PB who are great skaters and dancers. It is shocking that DW have gotten away with so much this quad.

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    15. And remember that pathetic "every man, woman and child" article and all that stuff about how DW were robbed? The aggressive politicking for DW started early.

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    16. the agressive politicking for d/w started WAAAAAAAAAY earlier than that. all the way back in 2009 when they and their fed were whining about coming fourth to v/m by like 0.3 points and that gave them the momentum they needed to beat v/m at 2009 gpf

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    17. 10:24 I remember that article. The whole rink at Nice thinking DW got robbed? Complete bullshit. We later learn from people who went to Nice that a good number of people were happy VM won. Ice network and the usfsa spreading lies always

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    18. @Anon 10:17pm: Skip through to 7:10 mark:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaDXHghFLmc

      Ya, she deserves a punch in the face, because she must know deep down she and her partner can't skate or dance compared to the others, so to think she deserves gold is a bit rich. Kurt Browning might have walked around in 1994 thinking he deserved an OGM, but he was a legit 4-time world champion, first to the land the quad and multiple triple-triple combos in the same program, gave us "Casablanca", and otherwise pushed the sport forward. What have D/W done for the sport? Nothing. Their world titles were BS, especially their 2013 title. If they win in Sochi, it will always be treated with suspicion.

      That's why I'm hoping the judges in Sochi come to their senses and spare their sport total ridicule by not just handing them gold, but I doubt it. The dirty deed is done.

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    19. Violence now against a rival? What will VM ubers think of next?

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    20. I hear from some people in Nice that DW were not very fast and had little ice coverage. I also heard they struggled on the step sequences (and one person who said this was watching from quite far up). None of them thought it was even close. But this is not surprising. Remember in SLC? A lot of the media made it seem like everyone agreed that SP should have won. This is a very effective way of telling the public how they SHOULD feel

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    21. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/09/figure-skating-world-americans-idUSL4N0C07Z620130309

      It was this article here. Funny how at the time it was published, the DW ubers quickly swept it under the rug and mentioned how the interview was a mistake and D/W were misquoted. LOL.

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  9. The one bright spot in this otherwise depressing season is how decisively P/I beat G/P. I was sure G/P would be thrown huge marks, what with their over-the-top citizenship campaign and Skate Canada's love-in with them. Maybe the judges will come to their senses come Sochi and reward good skating? It's a naive hope right now, but one can dream.

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    1. I thought it was all over with for PI once Piper had her citizenship, but the judges in Ottawa did the right thing. PI won over GP and not by just a little bit, a reflection of the reality when it comes to the skating and dancing the two teams put out.

      GP were not terrible, but they also were not nearly on the same level as PI.

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  10. Fully agree with this. My dream is for P/I to make top ten, W/P top five and D/W to faceplant into the boards. One can only hope...

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    1. crossing my fingers that charlie drops her randomly like that once time at skate america http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Lb95LdfQAaw/TcMOZqjKNUI/AAAAAAAAAH0/301MO81yCt4/s640/morozov%2Bvoodoo.jpg

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  11. I hate to say it but PI make DW look like juniors. They really are superior in every aspect of their skating.

    Someone on FSU made the comment in one of the dance threads that DW shouldn't be in the top ten and at first I thought that was too much (and the person was predictably attacked by other posters) but after seeing the field this year, I see where that person is coming from.

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    1. Look at PI's skating skills and compare them to DW's, who have been getting the highest SS marks all season (that right there tells you how messed up the judging is). Like OC said, which other sport can get away with gaslighting the public? SO many teams are being screwed over

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  12. LOL @ the first gif of DW's lift. jesus charlie's boots are rocking like a boat in a storm! that gets a record-high score? judges/their fans are probably wowed at meryl with that shoot-the-duck entrance, but do people not notice charlie's boots?!

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  13. The TSL idiots spewing more fallacies, that V/M have been surpassed by D/W since Vancouver, and the posing in Shez is what's going to make it memorable...because, really, who cares about the skating.

    Also, I love how the guest speaker is basically acknowledging that Charlie "thumps" Meryl onto his back in the backback lift...what a great adjective.

    Skip to the 53 minute mark:

    http://www.theskatinglesson.com/tsls-2014-nationals-recap/

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    1. Thanks for the recap 9:14. I won't be going to the link, because I don't want to give them hits. That's pretty funny about the thump.

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  14. are they really trying to pull the "america's sweethearts" thing between too people who are repulsed by even touching eachother???
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/megwantstoknow/it-is-time-to-start-learning-about-meryl-davis-and-imxz

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    1. LMAO. Charlie is no Hercules, for sure.

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    2. maybe he is beause herc treated meg like shit in greek mythology aka he went on a roid rage and killed meg and his children. this comparison to greek mythology is interesting tho brcause the shapes v/m make on the ice are quintessentially classic/ neoclassic, elegant, etc. (because i see people comparing their choreo to canova) meanwhile D/W are a fricken disney cartoon

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  15. I'm calling it...P/I. OGM. 2018. Bring it.

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  16. P/I could be in the top 5-7 internationally right now had they gone to Krylova/Camerlengo sooner. Such a shame they'll probably get beaten by inferior teams like C/B, Shibs and R/T.

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    1. The Shibs are a fabulous team. RT will not be at the Olympics. Euros was a test skate between them and SZ and SZ came out on top. CB may not hold up as well internationally, but they may be placed higher than they should be. I half expect them to be the new DW once DW are gone--the team that's held up over all of these other fabulous up-and-comers.

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    2. I actually find Shibs are a bit overhyped here. Their edges still look a bit shallow (not as shallow as D/W or C/B) but their skating skills are nowhere close to the league of V/M, P/I, I/K, P/B. They don't really extend their movements more than a nanosecond either, so I don't think it's accurate to say they have great extension and leg line. I still think they are better skaters than they are dancers though.

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    3. 2:04 - I think the Shibs are the best dancers next to VM. At least when doing ballroom.

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  17. Does anyone have a link to the protocol from US nationals? I want to know what GOEs DW's curve lift got.

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    1. http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2014/2014_us_fs_champs/results.html

      Here, I'll save you time - they got a perfect overall score. The only blemish was that one judge gave them two 2s (one on the twizzle, and one on the choreo lift) and one 9.75 (for transitions).

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    2. @12:34

      thanks, i had looked on the event page and couldn't find it. I know nationals inflation is common, but this lift deserved negative GOEs. It looks completely out of control. This sport is such a joke.

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    3. and i forgot to add that DW should never be getting marks even approaching perfection--they have so many glaring issues with their technique

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