Intermediates Feng and Ponomarenko back in 2012. A bit out of sync, but as that's now the established criteria for +3 in twizzles, it shouldn't hold them back. Nitpick: the "dance jump" entrance should jerk more. These two appear to enter it on a nice, smooth, forward outside edge, which will only hurt them.
The dance jump above resembles the entrance to an axel jump. Jumps rotate. Nevertheless, this entrance doesn't create angular momentum. If it did, it would actually be an easier way to do twizzles, and not merit Level 4. Besides, very low level adult skaters on fsuniverse.com find they have trouble staying on their feet after a hop.What further proof do we need?
*****
I thought the blog may as well take a look at this article: Kickasscanadians.ca
To start, here's something about the author of the article, Amanda Sage: http://amandasage.ca/writing/. Remember when Scott and Tessa were interviewed by that green journalist who live-tweeted while conducting the interview, and who linked to the subsequent article from his twitter about a bazillion times? Amanda Sage is also a free lancer. She's also done SEO copywriting. This article on Tessa & Scott is straight up SEO, larded with key words.
These are the people Virtue Moir recruit. People who need the credential.
The Scott & Tessa narrative is that the public has a consuming interest in their personal life. They've been putting that out for years. But when the fans want to discuss the skating, nobody, including Scott and Tessa, want fans to discuss the skating. Look at P.J. Kwong, who, on her twitter, had to fend off questions about Scott and Tessa's p.r., deflect questions about their social media behavior, and wax disingenuous about photos that popped up on instagram. She should be happy when fans want to talk skating. But, when fans started questioning the results in Sochi, Kwong tried to shame them into shutting up. Icenetwork's Lynn Rutherford also doesn't want to discuss the actual skating. Only the protocols. Don't even think of using the skating to audit the protocols. That's a sign of hysteria.
Those who write for mainstream media outlets direct us to think of the skaters as personalities and storylines. Then they scapegoat fans for their own choice to cover the skaters only as personalities and storylines.
I'm happy, though, that, more and more, fans aren't shutting up about the skating.
Here's the article's headline:
Scott Moir & Tessa Virtue, figure-skaters-champions-icons-great people
From Scott:
“People feel like they’ve been part of our journey, which is really special and we’re really grateful for that support.”
Scott often tries to be clever in the framing of his comments, with mixed results. Here, I wonder if saying, "people feel like" they've been part of his and Tessa's journey is deliberate. People have that impression, even though they really haven't been part of the journey, because we've lied, and promoted a fake story.
When they were interviewed by the Russian fans, Tessa said that what you did or said isn't remembered. How you made people feel is remembered. Under that umbrella, we can include, I guess, making people feel they're part of your story, even though you've really just lied to them, while instructing them about how honest you're being. How will people feel, though, when they become aware Virtue and Moir lied?
I recall that when Scott had his fan facebook page, he made people feel just great. Right from the start, when he announced that he was shutting down his "personal" facebook because he didn't want to leave anybody out, and proceeded to kick people off his personal facebook while keeping it going, in plain view of everyone he'd deleted.Then, on his fan page, making a rare appearance in order to solicit fan feedback about a profile photo, only to make a spectacle of how little their time and energy mattered.
Scott's lecturing fans on not friending a fake facebook account was also one for the memory books.
I don't think Virtue and Moir regret the reality show. But of course they didn't watch it. They don't want to deal. Those shame faced expressions when compelled to promote their reality show were telling. The fact that their faces prune up (Scott's), or turn robotic (Tessa's), that their eyes shift and their voices strangle whenever they actually have to look their lies in the face seems pretty self-indulgent to me. They dislike looking at their lies. After they've produced the latest round, they pretend it has nothing to do with them. They did it with social media; they did it with the reality show. It sometimes appears that Scott and Tessa create a fake Scott and Tessa, then live a life as the real Scott and Tessa, and pretend there is no link between the two. But the choice to create and market a fake Scott and Tessa was made by the real ones. That choice says something about the real ones. They're obviously linked.Scott's lecturing fans on not friending a fake facebook account was also one for the memory books.
From the article:
Recently, their magic has stirred up an even more voracious feeding frenzy than usual, drumming up an insatiable appetite for more of Tessa & Scott, the brand. In the months surrounding the 2014 Olympic Winter Games, they graced the covers of countless magazines. W Network even released a reality show about them earlier this year. But at the centre of all the hubbub are two very grounded individuals who see through the fuss and refuse to let go of what they know really matters: being good people and always doing their best.
That "feeding frenzy"? Narrative. Every bit a narrative lie as the Davis White protocols and press leading up to Sochi. This paragraph presents the reality show as if the W Network independently decided to produce it in response to a "voracious feeding frenzy" by - us? while Tessa and Scott, sailing serenely above it, didn't have much to do with it.
I had the great privilege of talking with Scott and Tessa when they were in Ottawa, Ontario last weekend for the Investors Group Stars on Ice presented by Lindt tour. Both during the interview and when they were “off duty,” they were friendly, gracious and humble; in other words, everything they appear to be.
This writer's reasoning is a little suspect. If they were "off duty" in front of a reporter, then they weren't off duty. If they're friendly, gracious and humble, that's demeanor, not character.
Scott and Tessa still haven’t decided whether to retire from competitive skating. (In Scott’s words, “We’ll announce as soon as we know.”) But they’re staying open to the many possibilities that lie before them, as two young people who are clearly bright, thoughtful, talented and hard working. Those possibilities include welcoming a little breathing room into their lives.
******
Neither one seems daunted by branching out into the world beyond skating. Tessa attributes that adaptability to their supportive families. “We’ve grown up with parents who never really wanted us to identify ourselves as skaters,” she says. “So we’re Tessa and Scott the people, the students, so many other things, and skating is what we do, it’s not who we are. So I think that will really help with the transition or this next adjustment of not training every single day.
Scott and Tessa still haven’t decided whether to retire from competitive skating. (In Scott’s words, “We’ll announce as soon as we know.”) But they’re staying open to the many possibilities that lie before them, as two young people who are clearly bright, thoughtful, talented and hard working. Those possibilities include welcoming a little breathing room into their lives.
******
Neither one seems daunted by branching out into the world beyond skating. Tessa attributes that adaptability to their supportive families. “We’ve grown up with parents who never really wanted us to identify ourselves as skaters,” she says. “So we’re Tessa and Scott the people, the students, so many other things, and skating is what we do, it’s not who we are. So I think that will really help with the transition or this next adjustment of not training every single day.
That one - kills me. The Moirs don't even SEE someone unless they have skates on their feet - or a wine glass in their hand.
A peek behind the curtains
Moving away from their shared passion for figure skating and toward their own interests means, of course, that they won’t be spending nearly as much time together in the future (hear that, Little Moir and (possible) Xygot Moir?). “It’ll be different,” says Scott. “The most we’ve been apart probably in the last 17 years is two months, when Tessa had her surgery for her shins (in 2010). It’s going to be an adjustment, for sure. Luckily we have things like Stars on Ice and skating shows that will keep us coming back together. And plus we’ll hopefully do some work outside of figure skating that will be together as well.”
By "two months apart" they mean "Living together in London."
As close as the two have grown, and as accustomed as the public is to seeing Scott and Tessa as a pair, the truth is that they also have their own separate lives.
This is where hiring a free lancer pays off - doesn't know anything about skating, doesn't know how tired this shit is, has no context, just regurgitates like it's 2009.
The public and the media have insisted on imposing their own narrative on Tessa and Scott’s relationship, but it doesn’t reflect the real story.
Oh fuck them. But interesting: the media has also insisted on imposing their narrative on Tessa and Scott's relationship? How so, Scott and Tessa?
“It does get a little bit annoying, for sure,” says Scott. “It’s just funny (to us). But that’s society nowadays; they want to be involved and I guess we have to take that as interest and that people care about our story, and take pride in that. As imposing as it sometimes is on your personal lives, I really do think it’s just people caring.”
Let's all have a moment of contrition for forcing the W Network to produce that reality show. Let's never again insist that Scott canoodle with Cassandra and fish kiss her on network television. For my part, I am ashamed for insisting Scott tell us how many condoms he was toting to Sochi. Let's all feel bad for finding those photos of him plucking at Cassandra's dress, and lying on top of Jessica, and publishing them on facebook.
This article doesn't make much sense, but it doesn't matter. It just has to be out there yet again that the public is voracious, insatiable, for stories and information about Scott and Tessa's personal lives, and they have responded with good grace, like the modest, humble, grounded individuals they proved themselves to be while speaking with Amanda Sage, and promoting The Investors Group Stars on Ice Presented by Lindt tour. Let it be out there that we have pushed them to show us their personal lives, but they don't wanna, except for when they made one up for national television, and it turned out to be all about Scott's dick.
Still, given Scott and Tessa’s reluctance to lay everything bare on Twitter, it’s surprising that they signed up for W’s reality show, which was shot over several months in late 2013 and early 2014. “The reality show was an interesting choice because… I’m not a fan of reality television,” says Scott. “We wanted to do something that was more of a documentary series, so it was interesting the way it came out.” That way, from what I gleaned from the episode summaries, points to underlying tensions between Tessa and Scott, trying once again to suggest there’s more to their partnership than meets the eye.
Not that there are any hard feelings about it. “We understand that they have to sell a TV show,” says Scott, who admits he’s only seen one episode. (“I have to give myself space.”)
Well, yeah, they always want space from the dirt they do. Did somebody force Tessa to do the talking heads about the underlying tensions between herself and Scott, and vice versa? I guess this is where the media imposed the narrative that doesn't reflect the real story. Did the media also impose Cassandra on us? "I was a little surprised how it came out - there I was on the sofa making out with this girl I hardly know, and in the voiceover, calling her my girlfriend. I wasn't expecting that. But it's TV, so we understand."
****
Ultimately, they did the show for two reasons. First, they wanted to share their story with Canadians. As Scott says, “We had a great crew that was honest with us and we were honest with them, so I think that people got the real Tessa and Scott.” Second, they wanted to document their journey to 2014. “We look back at 2010 and think, ‘What happened? I don’t remember leading up to it.’ The reality show was a good way for us to look back maybe in six or seven years and remember what we went through.”
Wait up - the show presented the real Tessa and Scott? But just before, you said it imposed a narrative that doesn't reflect the real story.
What's this about documenting your journey so you'll be able to remember? I thought you just told us the show happened because voracious fans were on a feeding frenzy?
Not to worry, whatever you forget, we'll remember for you, Scott. We'll remember what you said and did, and how you made us feel, but mostly what you said and did. We'll remember that in the run-up to the Olympics you made sure we knew you weren't gay, that Tessa got on your nerves a lot, that she had zero confidence and had trouble speaking up. We'll remember how you wanted us to know you were having sex with Cassandra Hilborn.We'll also remember that in the weeks leading towards Sochi, you and Tessa told us how much your skating had declined.
You're saying you wouldn't remember any of that without the reality show to look at?
For Scott and Tessa, the reality is that what they went through, as people and as athletes, goes a lot deeper than what the rumour mill sometimes tends to churn out. Since they were first paired in 1997 by Scott’s aunt, figure skating coach Carol Moir, their partnership has pushed each one to be a better person: stronger, more confident and more giving.
Wow. What kind of material were they starting with?
Looking forward, both Tessa and Scott are very clear on what they want to accomplish. They may not know what form it will take—competitive figure skating, coaching, choreography, volunteering, sports psychology, carpentry, or something else altogether. But whatever they do, they plan to do it with integrity, living lives that reflect their very best and that continue to make those around them proud.
Better late than never, I guess.
“We always want to be remembered as being great people and not just skaters,” says Scott. “We always felt a good connection with the volunteers who helped us in skating competitions and helped Skate Canada, and also with the management on our rink. We just want to be remembered as good people who had a good time and enjoyed skating for what it was; as people who enjoyed the sport and loved what we did every day.”
It's funny, those who write about the results in Sochi find it convenient to ignore the clear evidence put on the web by knowledgeable fans showing without a doubt that the ice dance results were crooked.Those who write about skating fans find it convenient to ignore that the majority of fan discussion running up to and after Sochi was and is skating-focused.That doesn't fit in with the narrative that fans are consumed with the skaters' personal lives. Whose agenda do these narratives serve? I get the first - the agenda to push DW to an unearned "win" in Sochi. The second agenda though, that's more of a puzzle. I think we are learning a lot about how the "sport" sees its public, and IMO it explains a lot about the shape the sport is in today.
A peek behind the curtains
Moving away from their shared passion for figure skating and toward their own interests means, of course, that they won’t be spending nearly as much time together in the future (hear that, Little Moir and (possible) Xygot Moir?). “It’ll be different,” says Scott. “The most we’ve been apart probably in the last 17 years is two months, when Tessa had her surgery for her shins (in 2010). It’s going to be an adjustment, for sure. Luckily we have things like Stars on Ice and skating shows that will keep us coming back together. And plus we’ll hopefully do some work outside of figure skating that will be together as well.”
By "two months apart" they mean "Living together in London."
As close as the two have grown, and as accustomed as the public is to seeing Scott and Tessa as a pair, the truth is that they also have their own separate lives.
This is where hiring a free lancer pays off - doesn't know anything about skating, doesn't know how tired this shit is, has no context, just regurgitates like it's 2009.
The public and the media have insisted on imposing their own narrative on Tessa and Scott’s relationship, but it doesn’t reflect the real story.
Oh fuck them. But interesting: the media has also insisted on imposing their narrative on Tessa and Scott's relationship? How so, Scott and Tessa?
“It does get a little bit annoying, for sure,” says Scott. “It’s just funny (to us). But that’s society nowadays; they want to be involved and I guess we have to take that as interest and that people care about our story, and take pride in that. As imposing as it sometimes is on your personal lives, I really do think it’s just people caring.”
Let's all have a moment of contrition for forcing the W Network to produce that reality show. Let's never again insist that Scott canoodle with Cassandra and fish kiss her on network television. For my part, I am ashamed for insisting Scott tell us how many condoms he was toting to Sochi. Let's all feel bad for finding those photos of him plucking at Cassandra's dress, and lying on top of Jessica, and publishing them on facebook.
This article doesn't make much sense, but it doesn't matter. It just has to be out there yet again that the public is voracious, insatiable, for stories and information about Scott and Tessa's personal lives, and they have responded with good grace, like the modest, humble, grounded individuals they proved themselves to be while speaking with Amanda Sage, and promoting The Investors Group Stars on Ice Presented by Lindt tour. Let it be out there that we have pushed them to show us their personal lives, but they don't wanna, except for when they made one up for national television, and it turned out to be all about Scott's dick.
Still, given Scott and Tessa’s reluctance to lay everything bare on Twitter, it’s surprising that they signed up for W’s reality show, which was shot over several months in late 2013 and early 2014. “The reality show was an interesting choice because… I’m not a fan of reality television,” says Scott. “We wanted to do something that was more of a documentary series, so it was interesting the way it came out.” That way, from what I gleaned from the episode summaries, points to underlying tensions between Tessa and Scott, trying once again to suggest there’s more to their partnership than meets the eye.
Not that there are any hard feelings about it. “We understand that they have to sell a TV show,” says Scott, who admits he’s only seen one episode. (“I have to give myself space.”)
Well, yeah, they always want space from the dirt they do. Did somebody force Tessa to do the talking heads about the underlying tensions between herself and Scott, and vice versa? I guess this is where the media imposed the narrative that doesn't reflect the real story. Did the media also impose Cassandra on us? "I was a little surprised how it came out - there I was on the sofa making out with this girl I hardly know, and in the voiceover, calling her my girlfriend. I wasn't expecting that. But it's TV, so we understand."
****
Ultimately, they did the show for two reasons. First, they wanted to share their story with Canadians. As Scott says, “We had a great crew that was honest with us and we were honest with them, so I think that people got the real Tessa and Scott.” Second, they wanted to document their journey to 2014. “We look back at 2010 and think, ‘What happened? I don’t remember leading up to it.’ The reality show was a good way for us to look back maybe in six or seven years and remember what we went through.”
Wait up - the show presented the real Tessa and Scott? But just before, you said it imposed a narrative that doesn't reflect the real story.
What's this about documenting your journey so you'll be able to remember? I thought you just told us the show happened because voracious fans were on a feeding frenzy?
Not to worry, whatever you forget, we'll remember for you, Scott. We'll remember what you said and did, and how you made us feel, but mostly what you said and did. We'll remember that in the run-up to the Olympics you made sure we knew you weren't gay, that Tessa got on your nerves a lot, that she had zero confidence and had trouble speaking up. We'll remember how you wanted us to know you were having sex with Cassandra Hilborn.We'll also remember that in the weeks leading towards Sochi, you and Tessa told us how much your skating had declined.
You're saying you wouldn't remember any of that without the reality show to look at?
For Scott and Tessa, the reality is that what they went through, as people and as athletes, goes a lot deeper than what the rumour mill sometimes tends to churn out. Since they were first paired in 1997 by Scott’s aunt, figure skating coach Carol Moir, their partnership has pushed each one to be a better person: stronger, more confident and more giving.
Wow. What kind of material were they starting with?
Looking forward, both Tessa and Scott are very clear on what they want to accomplish. They may not know what form it will take—competitive figure skating, coaching, choreography, volunteering, sports psychology, carpentry, or something else altogether. But whatever they do, they plan to do it with integrity, living lives that reflect their very best and that continue to make those around them proud.
Better late than never, I guess.
“We always want to be remembered as being great people and not just skaters,” says Scott. “We always felt a good connection with the volunteers who helped us in skating competitions and helped Skate Canada, and also with the management on our rink. We just want to be remembered as good people who had a good time and enjoyed skating for what it was; as people who enjoyed the sport and loved what we did every day.”
It's funny, those who write about the results in Sochi find it convenient to ignore the clear evidence put on the web by knowledgeable fans showing without a doubt that the ice dance results were crooked.Those who write about skating fans find it convenient to ignore that the majority of fan discussion running up to and after Sochi was and is skating-focused.That doesn't fit in with the narrative that fans are consumed with the skaters' personal lives. Whose agenda do these narratives serve? I get the first - the agenda to push DW to an unearned "win" in Sochi. The second agenda though, that's more of a puzzle. I think we are learning a lot about how the "sport" sees its public, and IMO it explains a lot about the shape the sport is in today.
"Let's all have a moment of contrition for forcing the W Network to produce that reality show. Let's never again insist that Scott canoodle with Cassandra and fish kiss her on network television. For my part, I am ashamed for insisting Scott tell us how many condoms he was toting to Sochi. Let's all feel bad for finding those photos of him plucking at Cassandra's dress, and lying on top of Jessica, and publishing them on facebook."
ReplyDeleteBWAHAHAHAHA
The way they keep putting this on the fans is incredibly patronizing. Don't get me wrong. I have no hate toward VM. But that doesn't make me blind to their PR hoaxes and shenanigans.
I think they are possibly the most brilliant icedance team since icedance was invented. I will always love and admire their skating. I wish their success had not created this entitlement that screams from all these interviews. They can "be nice" to fans and media people and talk about "being nice" till the cows come home. It means nothing as long as they are lying. If they don't want to lie and also don't want to reveal anything about themselves, I have news for them. You can do that--by shutting the hell up when it comes to personal information. Just shut up. Stop treating the fans so contemptuously.
OK ONE SICK CHICK AT THE HELM IF THIS BLOGGER SHIP...WHY I WONDER WOULD SOMEONE SPEND THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEIR TIME BLOGGING...ASKING THEMSELVES QUESTIONS...ANSWERING THEIR OWN QUESTIONS AND SO ON??? HOLY CRAP CRAZY FREAK
DeleteG E T. A. L I F E.
Lindsay Lohan tells fewer lies and plays the "good person!" card less than these two do.
ReplyDeletehahaha now thats an hyperbole
DeleteThose are textbook waltz jumps used for the entry. Crazy how a couple kids show better body and edge control!
ReplyDeleteThe girls dropped Meryl during their Creep program.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't help but laugh. I bet now she wishes she had learned to carry her own weight.
was it really the girls number? i heard she fell
DeleteThe way V/M are handling their PR is insane, and clearly they are using fans as a scapegoat for the games they play, as none of this is necessary to retain privacy. But there are recent fan activities that give me some appreciation of why it must be tiring having fans, period. It's like there's a bi-annual "reward me for making you a scrapbook" session, Russian fans in the fall and CSOI fans in the spring. You weren't doing them a special favour by gracing them with your presence. They weren't dying to spend more time with you. Get over yourselves.
ReplyDeleteI think there's at least some small subconscious hope for appreciation when it comes to these scrapbook projects, but I think that with the ones in the past, the scales have been tipped more in favor of just wanting to do something nice and the fans to express appreciation for their skating. I get that there are other ways of expressing appreciation for their skating, but I also get wanting to give something as a token of appreciation and it does give people who can't afford to go to shows or competitions a way to particpate. The current projects though seem to be more weighted for attention and showing off by the maker/organizer and have left a bad taste in my mouth. It's one thing for a some fans to throw a few letters in a binder. It becomes something else when you have the organizer writing off to Maria Mountain, the ISC, and others asking for submissions. Something like that is never ever ok. Lines are being crossed.
DeleteThe Russian fans don't just give them scrapbooks though. They gave them very personalized, presumably expensive, presents, like clocks. In one of the videos from last year they even gave them presents to give their parents.
Delete"It becomes something else when you have the organizer writing off to Maria Mountain, the ISC, and others asking for submissions. Something like that is never ever ok. Lines are being crossed."
DeleteLOL. Maria Mountain is a big girl, and perfectly able to know when "lines have been crossed." If she responded, it's because she wanted to respond. You sound jealous and pathetic, 10:27.
don't you guys ever get fed up of spending your lives here on the internet, criticizing other people, making them feel bad, and dissecting something that has nothing to do with you? it's disgusting. this is literally bullying. it makes me sick to even read two sentences of this blog, so usually i don't. just stopping by to call you out on being rude about my friend.
DeleteThis is not bullying, 2:00. If someone chooses to put things out in the public internet - in multiple places, at length - then they should be able to take some criticism. We're not OTT tearing this person to shreds, we're simply commenting that we found some of her actions questionable. The way this fan perceived the encounter was very self-centred.
DeleteIf the blog is making you nauseous @2.00pm, it might be better if you didn't read it - it really would be beneficial for your health. I don't understand why people who hate this blog so much bother spending any time here. Believe me, when I first started reading the posts I didn't believe a word of it...once I read them all I saw the light - but if I thought it was all a lie, I would have stopped reading; I wouldn't have given this place the time of day.
Delete2PM, you don't know what bullying is. Furthermore, and this is just me speaking personally, I have no patience for people conflating criticism with "hating". You put something up on the web in public, you don't control how it's perceived. A lot of people who put stuff up on the web think they're in charge of the narrative about it, they're not.
DeleteMy opinion - it's selfish on the part of fans, but enabling it certainly serves Scott and Tessa's purpose. By playing along with this, they are helping to create that track record of overinvested, over familiar fans. These fans who hug Scott and Tessa, reach out and squeeze Tessa's shoulder, give a gift and then sit there while you go through every piece of the gift, complimenting and oohing and ahing, is all demonstrating how fans "want a piece of Scott and Tessa.". That's what this is here. Fans wanting a piece of them, Scott and Tessa giving it, then it helps Scott and Tessa's story that this is what their fans are like.
I would ask any fan to consider what it's like on the other end (on Scott and Tessa's end), and I'd also ask any fan to consider their self-respect in such unequal interaction. These fans may be familiar faces to Scott and Tessa but they are strangers. Scott and Tessa feel like people the fan KNOWS, because their voices, faces, movements, etc. are familiar from television. I've actually had that experience - interacting with people I "know" from television, and taking on the demeanor of somebody speaking with people I actually know, and having to discipline myself to keep aware that I don't KNOW them, and don't fall into what feels natural, but is actually false - an over familiarity. From the perspective of the celebrity, it's very different.
Look at this fan. She's basically a stranger. She wants hugs. She reaches out and squeezes Tessa's shoulder. If she didn't know them from television, would she feel this free with them physically? Would we all feel comfortable with people we work with taking this liberty?
Indulging it is patronizing on the part of Scott and Tessa, and pandering. The part I'm not crazy about, that I think is self-serving by the fan, is that it's NOT about giving Scott and Tessa a gift. It's about getting a piece of their time and attention. It's about taking, not giving. If you want to give Scott and Tessa a gift, give them a gift. Not, let's sit here while you look at every page and admire it in front of me and praise me. If it's really just for them, why does the fan need to be there when they look at it? Give it to them and trust they'll look it over in their own time.
Again though, this serves their purpose. They WANT to put overinvolved, overinvested fans on parade, so of course they'll selectively cooperate with rituals like this one. It serves their purpose. If I'm a fan, I don't want to put myself in the position of being overfamiliar with strangers, and the fact that they humor that delusion in me is inherently unequal, and a little degrading. I think it's a shame that fans act like that.
BTW, I won't name names, but scratch these sorts of fan encounters, and look past the pats on the back and the self-congratulation, and the insistence that of course Scott and Tessa loved every second, the fan is out for themselves. Remember that fan incident of a few years ago, after all the dancing around about how much Scott appreciated the encounter, how welcome it was, things finally got to the bottom line. "It worked, didn't it!"
They don't care if Scott and Tessa really love and appreciate fans or not. It only matters that Scott and Tessa pretend, and the fan gets what they were after. The attention, the interaction, the feedback. That's the "piece of them." Submitting to this just helps Scott and Tessa distort the situation they're in and support their fake narrative, so they have a motive too.
**LOL. Maria Mountain is a big girl, and perfectly able to know when "lines have been crossed." If she responded, it's because she wanted to respond. You sound jealous and pathetic, 10:27.**
DeleteOh bullshit. The comments are observing that when fans make a big production of "doing something for Virtue and Moir" it's self-serving, one-sided, and they're doing something for themselves - getting a piece of Virtue and Moir. It's unequal, and it's fake. It's a ritual some celebs submit themselves to, and they know it's bullshit. Fans don't care. "If they want to say no, they're a big girl" or nobody put a gun to VM's head or whatever.
Irrelevant to the main point. It's self-serving. It's the fan setting it up to get something, not to give something.
When soap operas were a thing, some of the shows had fan events. Every year, there would be the same fans attending and standing in line for the same performers. I think the country music world has some of the same thing, or used to have. Some of these fans would talk about how they couldn't wait get "their hug" from whatever performer. That performer being a perfect stranger who didn't know jackshit about them except they were a face that showed up every year at this event, looking at getting "a hug" pretty much the same as they'd look going on a ride at Disneyland. I paid, I have it coming.
DeleteThese are not transactions that would be accepted between equals. It's pandering on the part of the celebs, skaters, singers. Nobody is going to want to get hugged up and treated with familiarity by strangers in their "real life." This is why "fans" are treated as a breed apart.
And it's fine. It's the rationalizations by the fans and the bullshitting by the fans. When you find out, underneath, they don't care how the celebrity feels about it, or whether what occurred was genuine or not. The attitude IS that the celebrity could have said no, and since the celebrity did not, it "worked" and the fan got what they wanted. There's no mutuality or authenticity. It's completely transactional.
I think the poster said Maria Mountain could have said no, not Tessa and Scott. Tessa and Scott were a captive audience - it WAS a meet and greet. They were sitting at a table autographing stuff, and a fan brought gifts. VM initiated the hugging. I thought it was too much when the fan touched Tessa's arm, but some people do that to perfect strangers.
DeleteI guess I don't see the big deal. She paid to go to an SOI meet and greet, VM are being paid to do it or it's part of their contract obligations or else they volunteered. They had to sit there and interact with fans anyway + they got stuff which they are free to throw in the trash, give to their mothers, or cherish forever. They were polite and accepted the gifts graciously - what else would they do? It's indulgent on the part of this fan, but so what? Figure skating needs fans that are passionate that way.
Even at a competition or show (provided that their preparations or practice are not disrupted), they need to deal with a decent amount of this. They are celebrities. They have fans. They are lucky to have such devoted fans - not all skaters do. And they aren't out there begging fans for stuff, like Weir. They accepted what was given. I thought it was nice. *shrugs*
If a fan had accosted them on the street or while they were out to dinner then I would have a problem with it, but this was a meet and greet. I don't feel sorry for the celebs having to kiss babies and give hugs, it's part of the job.
I also don't think a fan should be made to feel bad for creating a token of appreciation. She shouldn't require them to react in a particular way, but it was their choice to ooh and ahh over it, and it was the polite and kind thing to do. She clearly did a lot of work on it.
I understand that some fans take exception because they feel like this is a newer fan who is taking it upon herself to be the fan spokeswoman, but that's another issue entirely.
I agree that the meet and greets are a part of their job. I have no problem with fans bringing gifts in. In most cases, I don't have a problem with the various scrapbook projects, and I agree that fans shouldn't be made guilty. I took issue with this particular project because of how it came off compared to others in the past, both in execution and what this girl really seemed to want from it. This wasn't mostly about wanting to make and give VM a token of appreciation, as most of the past fan projects were. This was about being recognized by VM as being the best fan ever and making the best fan scrapbook ever. It's a combination of it being more about getting attention for what she did and the oneupmanship over the other fans who have put together projects in the past. It was showing off. "Isn't my project the best!"
DeleteThere's also the fact that contacting people personally involved in VM's training and soliciting submissions for this thing crossed a line. There have to be boundaries between celebrities and athletes and the fans. There are the outliers, but most people on the fan side are going to understand that there are things that are ok to do (talk to other fans about being involved) and some things that are not. Approaching people who are part of an athletes inner circle to participate in a fan project is crossing a boundary that shouldn't be crossed.
"I understand that some fans take exception because they feel like this is a newer fan who is taking it upon herself to be the fan spokeswoman, but that's another issue entirely."
It's definitely an issue, but it's not separate. It's intertwined through every bit of this.
I think I have this right, but the girl followed VM for a little while after Vancouver and didn't get back into them until Sochi. She seems to have little knowledge of or interest in what happened on the ice and with the scoring in the past quad, especially in these past two seasons. Now, she's taken it upon herself to cast herself in the role of best and biggest VM fan ever, as you said, the spokeswoman for all the fans. The fact that she's more in this to get appreciation out of VM than to show appreciation for what they have given to us on the ice is grating for quite a few of the skating fans.
"Figure skating needs fans that are passionate that way."
DeleteNo. Figure skating needs fans that are passionate about the sport, which I'm not sure this fan is. The less it's like a celebrity entertainment thing the better.
And I say she did require them to act a certain way. She invaded their personal space. She hung around waiting for more compliments. Listen to her view of the situation on her tumblr and ustream. They were upset when the security guard asked her to move along. Tessa was really anxious that she wouldn't find her email. She whispered in Tessa's ear who thought it was funny. The entire thing revolved around her, why would her motivation for doing it in the first place be any different?
I didn't watch her ustream or tumblr, and don't intend to, so I'm not contextualizing this through those lenses. I only watched the actual fan meeting video, and didn't think it was bad or abnormal. I don't understand the thing about Tessa's email. If that was in the meeting video I missed it.
DeleteI agree that figure skating needs fans who are passionate, ideally, but the sport also needs butts in seats and eyeballs watching anything to do with figure skating on TV. There will always be more intellectual fans (who will even write near-dissterations about soap operas) and just super-passionate fans who enjoy things for their own subjective reasons.
You know what would get butts into seats? There not being an inherent distrust in the judging thanks to the obvious disconnect between the scoring and the skating. These types of fangirls are not going to be in skating fandom for the long haul. They're fans of VM, not skating as a sport or even skating as a subjective art form. Their interest will be fleeting, and they're not likely to be a butt in a seat even a year from now.
DeleteYes, this sport needs more fans, but it needs the kind of fans who are going to maintain interest in the skating, even if it's not VM doing the skating. We need to not just acquire new fans, but to retain them for the long term. Fans like this girl who have a celebrity interest in one team aren't going to be in this for the long haul.
As it seems with all things in skating, the big problem with retaining fans long term is the bullshit judging. People get fed up when what they're seeing doesn't match up with who's winning and they walk away. Corruption is an off-putting thing.
If you watch this girl's ustream and take a look back through her tumblr posts about this project, it'll shed a lot of light on her motivations.
The fan added her email to the book in case V/M had any questions about it. Tessa goes "of course, where", trying to keep up and be polite, and the fan interpreted this to mean that Tessa was literally anxious she might have a question and not be able to find the email address.
DeleteYes, 8:32. And it's what went wrong with SC's marketing a ways back. Stars aren't the way to sell figure skating. Skating is the way to sell figure skating. Of course, that's a hard sell when the judging is so criminal.
From what I can see the main reason she did the fan project was to allow fans that don't have the opportunity to meet VM a chance to show that we are proud of them for representing Canada. Yes, she did wait around and explain it to them but why wouldn't she? It takes a lot of work to put something like that together and she wanted explain to them every part of it. As she explained it to them she talked about how all the other fans helped her which shows that she isn't doing this 'selfishly'. It also would've been really odd if she handed them a thick book and walked away. VM first initiated the contact after recognizing her from another meet and greet and they offered her the hugs. The touching on the arms means nothing people do that to complete strangers. VM also touched her back which shows that the contact was acceptable.
DeleteFrom the video, I don't see anything much to fuss about concerning the hugs between VM and the fan. I did find her touch to Tessa's shoulder a bit off, but that's just me.
DeleteThis is all rationalization. It's not natural, it's not normal, and it's transactional. It is, however, very common.
DeleteVM are playing the game. The fan is pretending there's a relationship of a kind there. There isn't. The fan feels far more familiarity with VM than VM feel with the fan, but fans don't generally let that bother them, and of course, the celeb plays along. It's not just VM, other celebs do. It's very common for celebs to be treated with over familiarity by people who just naturally fall into that from being accustomed to their voices and faces and mannerisms from seeing them on television.
I disagree that it's a two-way street. Fans do want to frame it that they are giving something to VM, but the reality is, it's transactional. The "gift" is their entrée to get something from VM. They want acknowledgment from VM.
I don't see what would have been odd about giving them the book, saying a few appreciative words, and excusing yourself, if the fan was genuine about not wanting to have this sort of spectacle. But this was what the fan wanted, and VM knew it. It's no coincidence they enable this sort of experience with several fan groups, and that it's on video, and it's always LONG.
Fans rationalize ALL THE TIME. And the bottom line is, they don't care. They want what they want. So I don't get the defense when this is brought up. I do know how many public figures and celebrities look at it. WHY does the fan WANT a hug from Scott and Tessa? Do fans ever ask themselves that? I, personally, have an issue with that because it cuts across fandoms, and it's gross and self-serving wherever it's found. It doesn't matter that the celebs pander to it and enable it; what matters is the skater (or celeb) is hugging the fan because that's the expectation, and because the celeb long ago learned that fans have no compunction about physical contact with somebody they don't actually know personally or have any sort of relationship with. Come up, talk to a stranger (somebody you know as a fan is a stranger) and hug them.
No, skating doesn't need "passionate fans" like that. That fan isn't a skating fan. That fan is a fan of the personalities. A lot of now-extinct genres - soap operas for one - had no problem attracting super invested, "passionate" fans who were more wrapped up in their own preoccupation with the actors (or athletes, in the case of Scott and Tessa) than with the show or with the sport.
It's likewise self-serving to pretend that one can tell anything from VM's demeanor. VM are WORKING up there. It's no different than making a public appearance for a sponsor, or an account rep visiting a client. VM don't "mind" in that, this is the job, but it's enabling. It's not what the fans tell themselves - we're doing something for VM!
DeleteNope, they're GETTING something from VM. VM already know they're appreciated. They don't particularly need tokens of "proof" of how nuanced and involved and invested that appreciation may be. Why would they? It's the fan that wants validation for that. Furthermore, this is the sort of shit that later finds its way into articles. Fans are so INTENSE about VM it even extends to VM's trainer and support team! Fans are eager to spend the bulk of half an hour engaging, and VM are so great about it, such patient people. It's all crap. It's fodder for their rationale.
Skating needs to appeal more to the general public, and get out of the tabloid business. That's one of the things that is marginalizing the sport - the self-serving presumption that "fans" are mostly like these sorts of fans. They're not. It's very self-serving by the sport to insist the public is cut from that cloth, because it allows figure skating to maintain its inherent and misplaced elitism. When you're pandering to people who literally want a piece of you, you are in a superior position, whether the fan realizes it or not. End of the day, this fan, and fans like her, are out to get something, and if they didn't get it (validation, hugs, feedback), they'd stop giving.
The sport needs to conduct itself like a sport. That means commentators who talk sense, instead of mashing up bullshit (bullshit like: own the moment, impact factor, connect with the audience) with a vague understanding of the rules. The sport needs to communicate the rules at blade level. We need to have replays of key points, not just missed, but those that are said to have earned the level. When a team like DW does the same freaking twizzles for years, twizzles done by intermediate skaters, and everybody else is doing three sets, it needs to be explained what about the "dance jump" makes the element as difficult as the ones done by everybody else (good luck with that). The sport has to act like it gives a shit about the outcome, and not as if it's impossible to have a wrong result.
It doesn't help that a major Federation, South Korea, in complaining of the outcome in ladies, acted like it feared key officials risked being beheaded by the ISU potentates for giving offense.
DeleteThe media still hasn't picked up on the fact that the South Korean Federation flat out expressed its fear that the ISU would retaliate against its skaters. What does that say? That the ISU has done that before, and that the ISU has the POWER to affect scoring in international competitions for reasons that aren't related to the way the skaters execute. Did the ISU respond to South Korea's complaint, take offense that South Korea implied the ISU would retaliate, reassure the public the ISU doesn't roll that way? For any other sports organization, that suggestion would have been the very first thing the organization would have shot down and set straight. I don't think the ISU saw the problem.
Pandering to needy, niche fans isn't the way to grow the sport. It's the way to maintain the status quo. VM and others in skating do get something out of it, but it's not the interaction itself. It's self-justifying, it helps their narrative, it preserves their attitude (which is patronizing and oh so tolerant), and the baked-in elitism. The fans who undertake these projects with the expectations of this fan are carrying water for VM. See, this is what our fans are like. Look how much time they need. Look what they want from us - hugs, attention, conversation, validation. We're happy to give it!
But not really. It's not personal for VM, it's business.
I wonder why you care? If it was all an act by VM, as you claim, then they were successful. The fan responsible for the book is happy, all the other fans who watched the video are happy and VM are happy because pretending to be nice and interested worked. So, everything is fine. Why are you so angry about it? Even if your rational were true, no one would be harmed.
DeleteIMO If VM were putting on an act all the time, they should move to Hollywood and become actors. To me (a grown woman) they seem to be sincere in their appreciation for the fan support they are receiving. I believe they were truly touched by the scrapbook, appreciative and grateful for what the fan did. Why can't this girl be proud of her work and show it off? She was excited and wanted to show them all the little details. Isn't that normal? I also don't get why it is important if she is a fan of the sport or a fan of VM?
And as far as ice dancing goes. The main sport in my country is soccer and that's without a doubt a sport. Players are in tabloids all the time, they have meet and greets with fans where little boys and hysterical girls want a hug, an autograph, a picture and to give them presents. There are many fans out there who are more into certain players then the team or the sport itself. Despite all that soccer is still a sport. So, I don't think VM having passionate fans hurts the sport.
I just don't get why this project or the fact that VM have passionate fans makes you and some others so angry.
First of all 6:18, my observations are contextual. They are relevant to the actual subject of the blog. One of the subjects of the blog is fan behavior and VM's behavior with fans. As the entire damn blog focuses on this subject, I'm not really sure where your question is coming from.
DeleteSecondly, you don't know how "angry" anybody is, so cut that shit out, that manipulation and framing, and that includes framing it as "angry that VM have passionate fans." Don't ask questions where you're already dictating the terms of the answer.
Criticism doesn't = anger. But obviously, plenty of people don't understand that. Likewise, plenty of people don't think this sort of thing is a valid subject for deconstruction. That's not my problem. I do.
I have always been interested in the fan piece of it, because the level of delusion and entitlement is huge, for one. These types of transactions are always mortifying, and they cut across fandoms. Fan behavior is consistent across fandoms
Most fans want to control the storyline about their encounter. They assure us of things they have no way of knowing. They KNOW how the celeb felt about it, for example.
What is this girl doing whispering in Tessa's ear? What is she doing reaching out to Maria Mountain? It has absolutely nothing to do with Maria Mountain's response - her response is irrelevant. What is relevant is that a fan, who has no personal relationship with any of these people, and therefore, no participation in Maria Mountain's relationship with VM, which goes back years, decided it would be meaningful to have Maria Mountain participate in this project via a freaking fan. Maria Mountain has her own relationship with VM. She doesn't need to participate via the fan, and VM don't need to hear from her through the fan's project.
And of course, if Maria Mountain and/or VM thought it was stupid, and disliked it, they'd come right out and say so, correct? So the fan is in the clear!
I dislike seeing self-serving behavior, self-degradation, and exploitation, even if the person engaging in it doesn't give a shit. The blog is all about observing how VM deal with their fans and vice versa. This behavior by this fan, for example, becomes an illustration of how VM pretend ALL their fans behave. That's crap.
Still in the archives on Gordeeva & Grinkov fan pages are tales of fans approaching Gordeeva at a restaurant or an elevator bank or a rink, and getting blown off. The fans assure us that they were no intrusion whatsoever, and yet were still given the cold shoulder by Gordeeva. They, of course, arbitrate when it's a good time for Gordeeva, what's intrusive or not, and what's appropriate or not.
These are people still attempting to give her something in exchange for something (a picture/autograph) because of course she's always eager for another angel ceramic to remind her of Sergei. I always felt it so ironic that, although the fans wouldn't get what they wanted from Gordeeva, she didn't play the game. She didn't treat the fans as special needs. She held them to the standard of behavior you'd hold a normal person. Unless she was at a specific meet and greet, she didn't pander to that crap. Ultimately, by not playing along, she actually treated them as people, as adults. It was a more honest interaction than any of that crap in VM fan videos. She wasn't patronizing; there was no enabling, and therefore, no elitism on her part.
Fans are perfectly free to do what they do, as I'm perfectly free to call it out for what it is, and that's what I'm doing. It's taking, not giving. It's neediness, it's not generosity. It's exploitation; it's transactional, and it's extremely presumptuous and it's embarrassing. VM are working. The fan is pretending. I'm saying what it actually is, and that's all.
It's never going to change, and that's not the expectation of this commentary.
oc
6:18 - the hysterical soccer fans aren't the core demographic of soccer. Every public pursuit has the fringe group you call "passionate." LOCAL celebrities run into people who treat them with unseemly famliarity - shit, this has been Scott and Tessa's experience at HOME, among people they know, who treat them as if Scott and Tessa are their business. Some people just hand wave it, and that's their perogative. I like to look at what's going on.
DeleteIn addition to the obsessive fans, soccer, like every popular, thriving sport, needs the larger group that shows up for the games and fills the stadiums and watches it on television, giving the broadcast entity big ratings. They need that group more.
Figure skating is skewed towards the fandoms, not the public. Fandoms are easy to manipulate. Growing public interest isn't as easy. Fandoms don't define the potential audience for figure skating, but claiming that fandom personalities do define figure skating's audience allows figure skating to maintain the status quo, allows much of this ridiculous manipulation by the skaters and the Feds, particularly in North America, and allows the bullshit that passes for coverage of the sport as a sport.
If there's any question, look at how unwilling anybody who covers the sport are to look at the skating. And how resentful they are when the fans look at the skating. They don't want that audience. They want the status quo. And that's why the sport is in trouble.
oc
OC, I agree that there's an inherent fakeness to any fan-celebrity encounter, which is why I've avoided meeting any celebrity I admire, including VM. That said, your view of the situation is rather black and white. Of course fans give gifts in order to get something from VM but that doesn't mean they don't also genuinely want to show appreciation. Same thing with VM, it's their job to be nice and they aren't as thrilled as the fan thinks they are to go through the whole scrapbook with her, but that doesn't mean they don't appreciate the significant effort that went into it and the fact that they inspired this kind of dedication.
DeleteI really don't think very invested fans like the scrapbook-maker are the reason VM have kept up the sham all these years. They might be the pretext but so what? Fans shouldn't be held responsible for VM's craziness and dumb behaviour. This fan was acting like fans do with all celebrities and you don't see everyone else acting like idiots. The problem is with VM, not the fans.
"It takes a lot of work to put something like that together and she wanted explain to them every part of it."
Delete"She was excited and wanted to show them all the little details. Isn't that normal? "
Exactly. She wanted to explain EVERY PART OF IT. That was not necessary. A brief explanation would have sufficed. I'm sure they would have been capable of interpreting the rest if they chose to look at it closely on their own time. But maybe that was part of the issue, ensuring that they looked at it to the required degree.
"I don't see what would have been odd about giving them the book, saying a few appreciative words, and excusing yourself, if the fan was genuine about not wanting to have this sort of spectacle. "
I agree.
10:32, I think OC would be the last person to think that the fans *excuse* V/M's behaviour. OC can correct me if I'm wrong. But it's a very convenient rationalization for them to take advantage of.
10:33, your last paragraph - exactly.
DeleteMore: Of course the fan wanted to "explain every little detail." Which means the entire exercise was for the fan. Virtue and Moir didn't need every single detail explained.
10:32:
>>>OC, I agree that there's an inherent fakeness to any fan-celebrity encounter, which is why I've avoided meeting any celebrity I admire, including VM. <<<
Well, let me be clear, it's the aggression, the entitlement, the narrative projection that has always caught my attention, where it occurs (and it doesn't occur in every exchange). It's the willfully narcissistic delusion that I've always found mortifying, and, perversely, fascinating. The fascination could come from my belief that it is SO freaking degrading to the fan who is doing it.
It occurs across fandoms. What VM experience, other celebrities, usually at VM's level, or even more minor, also experience. Major celebrities don't usually have to submit themselves to hands-on meet and greets unless they're hired for a corporate event or are participating in a promotion where fans are an invited element.
I don't know what it is about this particular brand of self-serving behavior on parade, but it's always been something that's interested me. I've seen a great deal of it. I don't expect it to change, but, with people putting their storyboarding on blast on the web, where the story they're telling is one where they've brightened the celeb's day, the pretense that the celeb is as interested in what's going on as the fan, is an aggressive sort of delusion that I push back against. That is not what's going on. Don't pretend you don't know what's going on (not you, personally, 10:32 - speaking in general to any fan who is carrying out these scenarios). Don't pretend you don't know what you're doing. Well, they can pretend all they want, but if it's in public and on the web, I'm not going to pretend along with them.
***That said, your view of the situation is rather black and white. Of course fans give gifts in order to get something from VM but that doesn't mean they don't also genuinely want to show appreciation.***
DeleteI'll explain more fully: In scenarios like this one, the decision making process and degree of assumptions on the part of the fan are mortifying. They decide what the skaters would appreciate. Then decide what reaction the skaters should have (or celeb). It's that component where the push back comes from on my part. It's not about fans giving gifts, per se. It's the scenario around the gift that I'm addressing in these comments. Not every token, gift, scrapbook, etc., has a scenario. There have been nice interchanges in the past. Not just with VM fans, but with fans of other skaters. I've read about things Korean fans have done to show appreciation, things that didn't carry with it the humoring of a scenario about the connection that's being made between the fan and the skater. It actually is about showing appreciation, and not about getting a piece of the celebrity. It's about the fan, not what the fan wants from the celeb.
With VM, there was a really nice scrapbook a few fans gave them at an autograph signing some years back that I don't think could be improved upon in terms of how the fans presented it and what it contained. Nothing about that gift insisted on a specific response from VM. It was all the fans involved saying to VM, this is how we feel about your skating; this is how we express it. And it didn't take forever, and there was no insta-intimacy. There was no "Show me how I brightened your day, how much we're connecting right now, how on point this gift is, and look every detail over and validate it. BTW, we also contacted your trainer."
It's a much more on the level bit of interaction between performer (skaters) and audience, because it's the fan's own form of expression, the fan giving something of themselves, and that's enough. Nobody was scripting the other side for VM as well.
**Same thing with VM, it's their job to be nice and they aren't as thrilled as the fan thinks they are to go through the whole scrapbook with her, but that doesn't mean they don't appreciate the significant effort that went into it and the fact that they inspired this kind of dedication.**
If you're talking about this specific encounter, I disagree. I think they see it as obsession, not dedication, and a little creepy, and since it's not uncommon, they play their role. It's terribly degrading to the fan, whether the fan knows it or not, because VM know this is a particular category of fan, and fans are always seen as "less than" when they package themselves this way. The overfamiliarity is a tell. Next door to lunatic. I know of minor celebs who have no freaking idea why the same fans show up year after year to meet them at some event. The attitude is - they've already met me, why are they back again? They already have an autograph. What are they getting out of this? It's purely bizarre. Yes, there's a bit of the bitch goddess success b.s. to it all because some of this - having overinvested fans - might be a status symbol - it's one of the accoutrements of success. But it still means I'm (the blog) watching a distorted, degrading exchange that is being narrated as something it's not. It's the warped narrative that I'm deconstructing.
Delete**I really don't think very invested fans like the scrapbook-maker are the reason VM have kept up the sham all these years.** I never said it was. I said that VM submit themselves to a few strategic overlong enounters every season, and that gets churned into an article such as the one written by Amanda Page about how "intensely invested" fans are. When the reality is, this is fandom. This is run of the mill fandom, as I believe you are also saying. Every fandom has these people enacting the same stratagems and scenarios and plotting the same gifts with the same sort of storyline. It's not why VM sham, but VM exploit the ordinary but somewhat crazy/discomfiting aspect of fandom and pretend it's unique to them, due to their dizzying, addictive personal magic. It's just one more chapter in the narrative they're setting up about their lies - that it's the fans' fault.
VM submit themselves to this because it supports that narrative they've been putting in place for years now. The longer an encounter like this goes on, the more "tolerant" and "gracious" they are in the face of ridiculous expectations of the time they should spend with someone and the feedback they're expected to deliver, the more self-serving it is on their part. There's mutual exploitation going on here, and that's what I'm calling out, if you will. The fan is creating a pseudo relationship where they've personally thrilled VM through their "dedication", and VM are exploiting the fan's delusion with an exaggerated display of patience and tolerance, and then it's all marketed/spun to the media as VM's unique circumstances vis a vis the fans. It's all a load of crap.
**They might be the pretext but so what? Fans shouldn't be held responsible for VM's craziness and dumb behaviour. ** I'm not holding them responsible. But the fans I'm talking about are also displaying their own craziness and dumb behavior, and there's more going on when VM when VM enable it than just VM being wonderful, patient, tolerant, appreciative skaters. They're have and will continue to exploit it for their own ends, namely, spin this stuff as wonderful VM putting up with, you know, fans (just re-read Amanda Page's article to refresh yourself about the tone), when the reality is, as you've already pointed out, this is just fans, period. Not THEIR fans. Fans. It's how a segment of fans behave.
I think we agree on that part.
^Should be Amanda "Sage" not "Page".
DeleteOC,
Delete"The longer an encounter like this goes on, the more "tolerant" and "gracious" they are in the face of ridiculous expectations of the time they should spend with someone and the feedback they're expected to deliver, the more self-serving it is on their part. "
Is this based on some particular interaction or specific conversation you've had with VM or someone who knows them well or just your observations based on following them?
It seems to me a stretch you heavily imply that *you know* how they are feeling or what they are thinking during these interactions. Sometimes a spade is a spade. Sometimes people appear nice and gracious and appreciative because they *really do* appreciate the interaction. If there is something specific we're not privy to, then I'd like to know (that there is something, not the details if you don't want to share), that we're not working with the same information, because I read their body language differently. I am open to the possibility that you are right, but I also don't see any reason not to believe the fan interactions are genuine. If they are faking and throw all the stuff in the trash at the end, I'm still ok with it, because they could just be being polite for the sake of being polite - not necessarily pushing an agenda of showing how much they have to tolerate for fans and making the fans into a straw man that justifies the sham. That MIGHT be the case, but I'm not sure it IS the case.
Though I have never met VM, I also have sources that confirmed the sham, but I don't want to run the risk of falling into the trap that because I have a few confirmed facts about VM, that I can then extrapolate from those and read their minds and know all of their motivations.
The specific encounters are unusually long. Concurrently, and repeatedly, articles have come out emphasizing how "intensely" invested fans are in VM around the world.
DeleteI think you're the one being black and white here. As we both know, these types of fans aren't uncommon. VM aren't the only ones faced with gift giving and over-familiarity. What stands out is the length of time VM submit to it, during particular periods. Then we get articles where they patronize the hell out of fans and it's emphasized they're incredibly gracious and wonderful, even though it can all get annoying, but, you know, fans. Then there are these videos posted that illustrate VM's experience with fans, and the standout part is, again, that they are unusually long, ergo, VM are demonstrating that unusual patience, tolerance and great character of theirs in the face of unusual interest in them and unusual demands on them from fans.
Fans ARE the straw man that justifies the sham. I don't know what you are told as the reason they give out, but that's the reason they've given out, and that's the reason they sell in every interview. No, they haven't acknowledged the sham as yet, but nobody was saying outright that DW were a lock for gold in Sochi, that it had already been decided, when THEIR narrative was put into place.
I'm looking at their patterns. How they frame their position as supposedly ice dancers cum rock stars vis a vis the fans, and how often it's reiterated in the media.
Then I look at what their (larger) fan experience actually IS, and it doesn't support their claims.
They do, however, have these videos of endless encounters with somebody who wants to create a pseudo intimacy with them and get validation for every semi-colon in scrapbook, and that stuff DOES appear to support their narrative.
Yes, I am looking at the patterns in the interview, where it is always, always emphasized how much fans want a piece of them and how absolutely marvelous VM are about it, how understanding, and it's patronizing as hell. Then they also acknowledge it can tax the patience, but again, they understand.
I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see where these extended fan encounters fit into the narrative. I'm not pretending VM are creating this narrative in the media - they're doing it. It's also plenty obvious that fans are not the reason they sham. At this point, that doesn't fly. However, we're continuously told that VM have this special magic that creates a "special", unusual, intense - you name it - interest in fans that, it is implied, is unique to them.
I don't "know" what VM specifically feel, but I do "know" how absolutely common this sort of fan scenario/set up is, and how it repeats, and I think you are being unrealistic to speculate that their response is simple appreciation that yet another fan has not only created a scrapbook they want to review in detail while somebody films the whole thing, and receives hugs and is physically familiar (I include whispering in a stranger's ear in that category). They are not stupid people. They know this is more about the fans than about them. Can I read their minds, no, but again, they're not stupid and they've been experiencing this a long time. As you know, it's very common, and much more is going on than "showing appreciation" and "oh, I'm so glad we have such dedication." This fan isn't showing "dedication" - that's not what dedication looks like.
So I guess what I am not clear about when it comes to your point is this.
Delete1. You know that VM are shamming.
2. You know that fans aren't the reasons they're shamming.
3. You think both sides are being genuine (within the context of a meet and greet), that VM's expressions of appreciation are authentic without any self-serving component, and there is no connection between enabling some of these protracted encounters and the narrative they continuously put out in the media about two things a) the unusually intense interest fans have in them and b) how exceptionally wonderful and tolerant (and they do have so very much they must tolerate) VM are about it all.
If you are saying "3", I believe that's unlikely, and we'll have to disagree.
Oc, if you think this is a long and protracted encounter, I can assure you it's not. I've done the meet and greet thing with opera stars and dancers, and there's always that fan that brings about 5 years of programs to sign and can get downright abusive to other fans if anyone suggests that they move along and keep the line going. I've seen celebs handle these types of overly involved, familiar fans different ways, and what I see with V/M is that they're appreciative but that this isn't the first huge scrapbook they've received and not the last either. In other words, it's nothing to them to put up with the gushing for a few minutes. They're not being fake -- it's not so black and white. They are just used to this kind of fan and are acting the way they always act. I've seen celebs do the "Gordeeva" thing and I must admit I find that kind of behavior MORE fake. They're projecting an image of aloofness and toughness that they likely wouldn't have if some random stranger, for instance, tried to bum a cigarette off them. But because it's a gushing, insecure fan, they get a power trip from being cold and also get to say, "See? I can't even eat in a restaurant in peace." I don't see V/M's patient approach as being inferior to Gordeeva telling the fans to get lost. It's different, but as I said, if Katia Gordeeva was being bugged by a stranger to bum a smoke, would she react the same way? Likely not.
DeleteIf you said all of these things about the Russian fan group I'd agree. They seem very entitled and smug about their activities.
DeleteBut this girl started a fan project that involved countless people, she did not pretend to be their number one super fan ( unlike the Russian group ) but mentioned all the other fans, explained in a few sentences what this is all about and all she asked for was a picture. Of course she was excited and happy but there is nothing wrong with that. She did all of that in less than five minutes and didn't corner VM for a 40 minute meeting.
All this criticism is directed at the wrong person.
6: 34 here (my first post since last night)
DeleteOC, I didn’t say I think they’re being genuine – I even said you could be right – however, I am open to the possibility that they don’t consider these fan meetings such a hardship. You seem to be the one who has a strong opinion – that they are merely “tolerating” and enduring the meetings. I don’t see the evidence of this. I’m not necessarily saying you’re wrong, but that I don’t think it’s crazy for some fans to think that VM really are nice people who are genuine in their interactions.
I don’t necessarily agree these encounters are unusually long. There was a 45 minute audio session of a Lambiel fan meeting from Opera on Ice. Here’s one of Jeremy Abbott from Worlds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvBI-QaAM9A It’s 11 minutes, but there are other parts on youtube and you can see from the fades that this is edited so he was actually there much longer. The Japanese fans bought him a necklace, and even put it around his neck. I’ve seen similar meetings with Brian Joubert and Johnny Weir. Michelle Kwan’s fans made her a gold medal after SLC. Plushenko did a contest where he went out on a date with a Hungarian fan (let’s not give Scott any ideas…). Neither the requests on VM’s time, nor VM submitting to the requests, are unique to VM. They are not unusual in this, except for that they are in the upper strata of the most popular skaters (and they are not alone there). Many of the most passionate fans are from Japan and most skaters say they love going to Japan because of those fans. And when I see VM or Abbott sitting there receiving gifts and compliments and taking some photos for half an hour, my thought definitely isn’t “poor guys, what an imbalance of power.”
One thing I agree with this blog about is that you should trust what you’re seeing with your eyes. VM interact as a married couple. Tessa was pregnant. I later confirmed that was in fact the case. And what I see in my eyes is VM interact well with the fans. Their body language is open and comfortable – IMO of course. The body language is not the same as when they lie or when Scott poses with a fake gf. They aren’t recoiling at the fans or acting put upon. They look engaged, to me. I often see VM being the ones reaching out for the hugs first or asking questions of the fans. Of course they could be acting, but from what I’ve seen of them in their reality shows and Scott in photos with his sham gfs, their acting skills are not that strong. They appear much more at ease with the fans than they do in those other situations. Maybe it’s comparmentalizing, but it doesn’t seem to me that they are gritting their teeth counting down the seconds. It seems to me they have accepted this is part of the job and they deal with it gracefully and sometimes enjoy it.
(cont)
DeleteI tend to agree with 8:41 that it’s a grey area. Of course, the fan is self serving and the book is more about her than them. Of course, they don’t need the fan to get a note from Maria Mountain. Of course they know this, and yes, if the gift were solely given for the benefit of the giftee, there would be no need to open it in public. They are being polite and reading the book and the fan is telling them why it’s important to her. I do the same when grandma gives me an ugly sweater. This Is a normal human interaction. It’s not sham, IMO. In other words, I think they would act this way whether or not there were a sham. It seems to me to be their personalities because IMO it’s very hard to fake how engaged they seem with the fans. I would not be surprised if they *also* use it to rationalize or justify the sham, but I don’t think they do it *because* of the sham, if that makes sense.
I think you are coming from a perspective that insists they have disdain for the fans (and I understand your reasoning well), and that the images of them being especially gracious to the fans contradict that narrative, so you have constructed an image that it’s an act in which they accept an over-the-top amount of fan interaction to essentially prove their point that the fans ask for so much. I get that. I am merely suggesting that may not be the case. First off, as I said, I don’t think having protracted fan meetings is that unique, and furthermore, if the issue is that you disdain the fans, it makes no sense to spend extra time with fans so you can prove how bad they are while continuing to spend time with them year after year. But it’s VM, and a lot of stuff they do doesn’t make sense, so I think your theory is *possible* but not the only possibility. Like I said maybe a spade is a spade and they enjoy those moments for what they’re worth. That’s why I wanted to know if you were referring to something specific they said or are just forming your own theory. Clearly you have an issue with fandoms in general, not only VM’s. Many fans seem to have enjoyed themselves immensely at these meetings and I don’t want to rob them of their experience and tell them it was all fake when I don’t know for sure that’s the case.
FWIW, 9:46, I spoke to someone who was at that fan meeting and said this girl was at the end of the line, that everyone was promised 2 minutes, and this girl got 4. This fan was fine with it and felt it was commensurate with the time the girl spent on the book.
As for the Russian fans, I think they represent a group of Russian fans from LJ so maybe that’s why they come off as the number one super fans. They’re the ones who spend the money to go see VM at all these places. But other Russian fans, who didn’t attend the meetings, have shown me previews of some of the gifts before VM got them and also proudly posted the videos. They felt like they were a part of it because they contributed to the selection of the gift and got to watch a really long video which perhaps included some of their questions. I think that’s nice. I don’t find the Russian girls from the videos smug but YMMV.
I don't have time (at the moment) to address what you've said point by point, but this:
Delete**I think you are coming from a perspective that insists they have disdain for the fans (and I understand your reasoning well), and that the images of them being especially gracious to the fans contradict that narrative**
No, I don't think it contradicts the narrative. And actually I've never run across anybody whose position means interacting with fans who DOESN'T think of fans, particularly when it comes to actually having hands on experiences, so to speak, as a quasi-toxic necessity, not just Virtue Moir. You, IMO, seem to be the one who is insisting it's black or white, and seems to think I'M saying it's black or white - that it's either a mutual, genuine exchange or one side has contempt and is hiding it from the other. I believe that, like any human beings (or celebs :) ) Virtue and Moir are perfectly capable of feeling empathy, being courteous and acting decently towards a specific individual in a given moment or moments while having a completely different attitude towards the larger group/phenom/factor of whom that individual is a part.
I also have a completely different (opposite, in fact) view of how you characterized Gordeeva's attitude and behavior (and the analogy you used) but will address that later.
The degree of familiarity a stranger (the fan) feels for the celeb (or skater), especially when they act on that familiarity - their demeanor, the hugs, the gifts, some of the boundary-crossing - builds it (the fake) right in. It's completely different than that fan would behave with anyone else they saw once a year, or once every four years. The fan is seeing it from their unexamined artificial perspective, which is they see the celeb on television or video in between in-person meetings, and learn things about the celeb that way, which perpetuates the sense of fake familiarity/intimacy. The view from the other side (the celeb) is a completely different experience. Do they understand it because it's pervasive, yes. Does understanding it make the exchange more authentic, no, because there is nothing authentic about it.
The dynamic I'm talking about is not zero sum, and you seem to think I'm saying it is.
This isn't me projecting onto Virtue Moir; this is considerable exposure to the "other side". If you have a different experience, I believe you, but mine is consistent across the board where I've been exposed to it.
DeleteI actually said it supports the narrative. This is part of the gig, as you and I both know. You may have different feedback than I do from your experiences/background. Mine is that celebrities/public figures almost as a body see "fans" (as opposed to the audience) as a necessary evil but also obsessed/needy and "off". I have never interacted with, or spoken with, anybody where fans are part of the gig who don't see fans that way, not just the celebs themselves, but the people who work with them and for them see it the same way.
IOW, I am not just working off Virtue Moir. Attitudes towards "fans", most particularly, fans who are interested in personal contact with the public figure. It is possible for two things to co-exist - a naturally empathetic side/good manners, which is what is tapped into in the moment, and a bigger perspective, which, in my experience (if not yours) is unvarying.
This is not, btw, about Virtue and Moir's FEELINGs, but about their behavior. They exploit fans in their narrative about their lives. They've set fans up while shamming, they've lied about the fans or at least distorted their experience with fans (the incessant storyline that they're near rock stars who cope with voracious, insatiable worldwise interest in everything about them, including their personal lives, who have to fend off a narrative imposed on them by fans, when, the truth is, they're the ones imposing the narrative). This aspect of their public lives goes into the narrative. It would be there if they weren't shamming, that's true. They'd still have to do meet and greets and accept gifts and give hugs. But does it help serve the narrative they implicitly push to justify their shamming, yes it does, and I believe they're conscious of it because of how they distort the fan experience in their interviews and articles as unique to them.
P.S. - I don't think things like "smug" or not smug are relevant. It's behavior. When I talk about scenarios or agenda, I am talking about what is taking place, not what the fan is thinking or feeling. The only "feeling" part I find relevant is that it's very common for fans to feel extremely familiar and connected to a celeb when they meet them in person, because they've had a lot of exposure to their looks, voice, story, mannerisms and way of moving through a two dimensional vehicle - television or video. And they don't question that familiarity; they act on it. It's natural to hug. It's natural to whisper in somebody's ear, squeeze a shoulder, reach out to people you don't even know (like their trainer) all because you saw it on TV or vide or read it. The view from the other side is Virtue Moir (or whatever celebrity) is NOT having that experience. For them they are engaging with a complete stranger, even if they've "seen" the face before at a prior meet and greet. This is seldom a consideration for the fan. For MY part, I would feel better about the self-respect fans had if they'd treat the celeb as someone they admire, whom they're getting the opportunity to meet, not as someone they sort of "know", in whose ear they could whisper, or who they can hug, or bestow a bunch of gifts on.
I always wondered who was keeping the notebook that kept track of the nonsense....and now it's blatantly obvious, that no-one is. Honestly, these people. I feel sorry for the younger fans - they can't keep themselves straight with it all. One minute, it’s all “we choreographed this in Scott’s kitchen, it’s our baby”, then it’s “we’re off to do our own thing, bye”, then they’re all over each other like a rash on the ice for SOI – for a teenager who loves and respects them and has eyes in their head, but shipper dreams in their heart (because that’s what teenagers do), it’s enough to give you whiplash. Anyone over the age of 21 who buys their bullshit though – I have no sympathy.
ReplyDeleteLook at the narrative schism about "Seasons". Scott and Tessa, somewhat lamely, described it as the story of their partnership. When they remembered to do so, they described it as the stages of their skating career and their development as ice dance partners. They were a little vague about it dealing with their relationship as "friends" but only as it impacted their shared experience as an ice dance team.
DeleteMarina, meanwhile, was running around calling it what it was: a program about the stages of a relationship between a man and a woman. And we know what Marina means by the relationship between a man and a woman. Their intimacy. Life partners, romance.
They never got that consistent. VM would give out that it talked about 17 years of skating. Marina (and, in the reality show, with Johnny Johns) talked about the man woman stuff. VM didn't care.
Again, they're not hiding anything. Look at the inconsistency. Look at their behavior. They simply want to remain in the position where they don't have to acknowledge anything (their marriage - they will be married five years this fall), their child. I fully expect Tessa to be waddling around late in what appears to me to be her second pregnancy, skating along like a barge.
They don't care who knows, or that we know. They just don't want anything out there that would require the media to acknowledge their actual status, or require them to acknowledge it That's it. They'll continue to find people like Amanda Sage, who doesn't know anything except the resources passed onto her by Barb MacDonald, and who doesn't do any independent fact checking (a simple google would show Amanda, like it shows everybody, that VM are lying about being apart for two months after her surgery).
oc
It now appears that Lawrence/Swiegers are also splitting. Obviously, the honeymoon period from the Olympics is starting to wear off and folks are taking a hard look for the next quad. Unfortunately, it also emphasizes how figure skating is not in a good place as an amateur sport when the Olympics makes or breaks you. There is way too much emphasis on the Olympics for this sport and I don't see this cycle improving unless the ISU can pull a 180 and increase skatings popularity. I don't think the splitting bloodpath will stop until right before the announcements of the gp assignments in June.
ReplyDeleteI also think if your Skate Canada and the majority of their fans who attend events during the year who do attend CSOI - the Try duet really is an eye opener for folks who clearly are in the WP bandwagon..if hubbell/donohue can recover from injury - these guys along with PI will give WP a run for their money within the DSC...
I almost wish VM could have done US SOI - and done 'Try' with DW - can you imagine both of them on the ice?! There would be no question then (although why there's any question now is a mystery to me, but there you go).
DeleteUS SOI would never do that number with DW, too many aesthetically pleasing lines with no hops or kicks.
Delete"I also think if your Skate Canada and the majority of their fans who attend events during the year who do attend CSOI - the Try duet really is an eye opener for folks who clearly are in the WP bandwagon..if hubbell/donohue can recover from injury - these guys along with PI will give WP a run for their money within the DSC..."
DeleteWP are much improved, but there are limits talent-wise to what they're capable of. It shows up in stark relief when they're skating side-by-side with VM. HD and PI are the superior natural talents, and as long as both keep progressing as they have, it's not long before they'll surpass WP.
I say this with the the acknowledgement that I keep in the back of mind that scoring and the actual skating last season had little relation, but I wanted to make this point. HD's total score from 4CC would have put them 6th at worlds. This score came with level 2 twizzles in the SD after Madison lost focus because of the pain in her hip. With two more months training and without the twizzle error, that score likely would have been even higher. Even with the score as it is, they would have come out of worlds as one of the seeded teams. With PB's retireiment and IK's split, and if the rumor that CL may also be retiring holds, this would have put HD in position as one of the top 3 seeds for the GP.
Madi's post-surgical prognosis was best case scenario, so I'm hoping that it's all behind them now.
Regardless of what happens with the scoring, fact is, it seems WP are going to get passed on the ice sooner rather than later by the two younger DSC teams.
...and that's why VM will never be invited to skate a foursome with DW, and probably won't even be invited to skate in any ice shows in the US in which DW will appear.
DeleteHell, a team like Navarro/Bommentre would have outshone DW in Try, and NB are no VM.
10:28, of course N/B would have outshone D/W. Which is why N/B did 'Try' with Gordeeva and Kulik. D/W don't have the connection and chemistry needed to pull off this kind of number.
Delete" There is way too much emphasis on the Olympics for this sport and I don't see this cycle improving unless the ISU can pull a 180 and increase skatings popularity. I don't think the splitting bloodpath will stop until right before the announcements of the gp assignments in June. "
ReplyDelete??? Skating is an Olympic-focused niche sport. It always has been that way, even at the height of its popularity. It's never going to be a sport where the yearly championship is going to mean more or as much as the Olympics. The ISU can't change that.
I am anon at 5:47 am - my point was that basically that the ISU has failed to grow the sport and you are right that the yearly championship is not going to mean as much as an Olympic medal. Is the Olympics huge - hell yes - but there are certain extreme sports especially in the winter olympics where let's face it the IOC seeked the sport to be included in order to capture younger viewers and other sponsorships. If you look at some of the snowboarders - the Olympic games was a bonus in terms of increasing the sport's popularity and exposure and perhaps the athletes market value.
DeleteI think we can all agree that the ISU wants to keep the status quo...so no need for to argue further - as I agree with you...
The ISU would go a long ways in growing the popularity of the sport by being more transparent and accountable in the judging and to the public. In it's current form, the ISU is a mafiaoso-like organization.
DeleteThe ISU is arrogant and doesn't trouble to hide that it's arrogant. I think it's hard for a sport to grow with a governing body that treats the public that way, at least in North America. Added to which they went ahead an hijacked the ice dance results for DW in front of everybody watching and didn't feel an explanation was called for. Furthermore, the public and the media is apparently explicitly discouraged from looking at the skating. We're meant to take "Well, the judges must have seen something." or "We don't know what the judges saw." on face value. What other sport does that? In tennis, we see a line call from every angle. In football, we see from multiple angles whether it's in bounds or not. In figure skating, the camera angles often appear set up to prevent us from seeing how a team actually skates. It was very difficult to even see a team's feet during one of the key points in the Finn Step, and the camera angles for the twizzles appeared set up to make it difficult to see how much ice was being covered, how fast the team was twizzling, and whether or not the team was in sync.
DeleteSpeedy seems as if he's just taking the ISU and the crap state of this sport as fixed issues, and he's figuring out how to, basically, disembowel it and turn it into a gimmick.
Make it less of a sport. It's because it's NOT a sport that it only has an Olympic audience and people don't trust the results. It's also because the sport constantly talks out of both sides of its mouth.
oc
I don't know if everyone has watched the video of the annual scrapbook presentation but can we at least all agree now that tessa isn't pregnant?
ReplyDeleteIf you're referring to Tessa's outfit yesterday, it's actually quite clever. During the last pregnancy, early on, she wore a few revealing things, and later on, she wore things that no one would think a pregnant woman who was trying to hide it would wear. The sheerness of the white shirt is revealing, but it's boxy and hides the fact that her sides are filling in and her hips and bottom are getting wider. It's also worth pointing out that what would be small for a normal woman is not was is small for Tessa.
DeleteAlso, take a look at how her face has changed since the games.
Yeah, it's not really from the side you can tell - it's the width she's getting - her waist is disappearing and her hips are getting bigger. Her face is filling out as well. And while none of this is any kind of proof, I've been at close quarters with 6 friends, who in the last four years have produced 9 babies - she's got the "look" about her.
DeleteI know what you mean about her having the "look." I've also had several friends and family members who've had babies in the past several years. I'm getting to where I can tell before anything is even said. Tessa has what I call "pregnant eyes."
DeleteYeah, with Tessa, as people keep saying, one needs to compare Tessa to Tessa, not Tessa to other people. She has an unusual build to begin with, although needless to say, an attractive one. Unusually square, wide shoulders and then a very narrow waist/rib cage both as seen from the side and in silhouette. She has pretty much a straight hip line as seen from the front, but does have a derriere. Last time everything started to square off beneath her shoulders. There's a lot of play with that body type.
DeleteAfter her last pregnancy, it seems to me she was not as narrow, which is common, but she's still quite narrow compared to other women.
In addition, I wonder where the "ridiculous!" part comes from in how fans come at this. If fans don't think VM are married and have a daughter, I get it. The whole thing is ridiculous to them. But some people seem to believe they're married and have a child, but would not be so ridiculous as to be pregnant a second time.
Why?
oc
Tessa is also a master when it comes to clothes - I know fans praise her fashion sense, but understanding fashion is more than just keeping up with trends or being stylish - it's about proportion, form and lines (funnily enough, some of the things that apply to dance as well) and Tessa knows how to play with these things, where to draw the eye, what to draw it away from. She's actually pretty genius at it.
DeleteShe also has uncommon proportions, and plays with that. Namely there's a ton of play below the shoulders, and her hips are narrow - not as narrow as they used to be before she had her daughter, but she's still an emphatic triangle, very squared off at the shoulders. She plays with waistlines, with shoulder line, with fabric and of course, with compression garments. If she carries more square than the classic silhouette people think of when they think pregnant women, this can go on awhile. I knew a woman who was pregnant for some time but she didn't "project" in the front. No beach ball effect. She just got "stocky" and squared off at the sides.
DeleteJust curious if anyone has any theories on how far along Tessa is and when they think a time around when she will be having this said baby is?
DeleteI don't assume that she wasn't already pregnant during Sochi, so I have a range. At the upper limit, making the assumption that she was no more than 6 weeks at the time of the individual even in Sochi, she'd be 17 weeks now and due in mid-October. Based on the earliest when some people started noticing changes, I think the lower limit would be 14 weeks now and due in very early November. I obviously don't know for sure, but if pressed, I'd actually go with the higher number of weeks along rather than the smaller one.
Delete" I don't know if everyone has watched the video of the annual scrapbook presentation but can we at least all agree now that tessa isn't pregnant?"
ReplyDeleteNo. I'm having too much fun with it right now.
How is it fun to spread rumors that someone is pregnant when they obviously are not? Get a life.
DeleteTessa is obviously pregnant. Get your eyes checked, 8:48.
DeleteHow is she "obviously pregnant"? Even if she is pregnant there's nothing obvious about it right now. By July it's going to be obvious so maybe then we will know for sure.
Delete"I don't know if everyone has watched the video of the annual scrapbook presentation but can we at least all agree now that tessa isn't pregnant?"
ReplyDeleteConsidering the vid was only posted 10 min ago, I doubt that "everyone" has watched the video already.
crazy blog. crazy person who run this blog . get a life people or seek mental help
ReplyDeleteEverything written in this blog is true even if you don't want to believe it.
DeleteNothing about it is true but Scott and Tessa find it very funny that people actually believe they're married and have a child.
DeleteDid someone ask them, 12:50? I wouldn't put it past a fan to try and show how cool they are that they're on their side.
DeleteSeriously, how deluded do you have to be to think that if a fan clued Tess and Scott in to the existence of the blog, they would admit it all? Of course they're going to deny it and make out they find it funny smh.
DeleteTessa: "It's so flattering that people would say that! I get it, because when I see a couple with a lot of chemistry I also think that they should get married and have babies!"
DeleteScott: "It can be annoying that people talk about us being married and having a child, but it shows how well we do our job on the ice."
12:50 is full of it. It reminds me of the fans that pretended to know all about Jessica and Scott first hand.
Delete^did they actually say that
DeleteIm a different person, but my question is, why do you even care? Why is the fact that she may or may not pregnant important to you? That you are calling them liars, that you are making dictionary book long posts about people you 'dont know' either? You are going on about the fan thing, about how they are more interested in personality than skating, and yes your blog does talk about skating technique and such but you are putting as much time and effort talking about their personal lives that it is much over shadowing everything else. I know, I don't have to read your blog, but before I leave I just cant comprehend why you care THAT much and would like to know. (I actually mean this in the nicest way, im kind of worried for you.)
Delete11:16
DeleteI'm not the blogger and this response does not intend to answer for blogger. But I'll say it's incredibly sanctimonious of you to come here and criticize a blog you have obviously not read. If you had taken the time to read, you would see the question of "why" answered many times.
And the name calling. Please. How childish. You might want to get some help for your desire to control other people's thoughts and opinions (I mean that in the nicest way).
Yes, you're correct, I've only found this blog recently but I am honestly trying to read through it! But I also don't feel like going through the mountains of comments, so if you have links of answers to my questions, than please feel free to present them here. (Im serious, Im really interested!) Also there was no name calling, sorry if it came across that way, honestly.
Delete2:13, as I said in response to another comment, you're directing the answer with your questions, and that's why you need to read the blog, if you actually do want answers. You're framing your questions as set ups. I'm not buying into the premise of your questions, which is why I'm not answering them. Ask a real question in a real way, without building in your personal editorial distortions. There's an archive to the right of this blog - feel free to use it.
DeleteThe blog isn't obsessed with their personal lives. The blog critiques their abuse of social media, their meanspirited game playing with the fans, and how they use the excuse of "privacy" to, in reality, bait fans, rattle their cage, seek out their attention whenever the fans get distracted by the skating. If you want to know more, read the blog. But if you find the posts "dictionary long" I can see that being a challenge.
Okay, challenge accepted. I am going to read your whole blog and come back with an educated comment :)
DeleteFrom the article mentioned above:
ReplyDelete"Recently, their magic has stirred up an even more voracious feeding frenzy than usual, drumming up an insatiable appetite for more of Tessa & Scott, the brand."
There's that VM-talk again about being a brand. It's the most bizarre context of I've ever seen. I get more the impression that at some point in Tessa and Scott's young lives, perhaps immediately after Vancouver, someone talked to them about being a brand. It must have been a 15-minute conversation. These guys have no idea what they're doing or what they're talking about. They probably feel very clever about all this, but looking at their PR stunts since before Vancouver it's only obvious they are in fact ignorant, as are all the bozos surrounding them giving them advice and/or handling their appearances. This is no professional handling of any brand.
I'll guess the idea of brand came from Skate Canada seeing as how clueless and incompetent VM are in handling their brand and how ignorantly they throw that word around. Hmmm - clueless and incompetent. What do you know, just like Skate Canada.
Another thing. In this article VM are linked with the term "brand" in the context of the feeding frenzy surrounding them. Leaving aside the unbelievable mockery and lies toward the fans in characterizing them as a feeding frenzy, it's interesting that they don't seem to think of themselves as a brand for the sake of selling themselves as skaters/ice-dancers. So am I understanding that VM think their "brand" is selling me platonic passion, with a heavy dose of Scott/fake gf (whoever fake gf happens to be at the moment) on the side? Boy, are they idiots when it comes to the term brand.
They obviously see their chemistry as a commodity. And they see the "will they or won't they" as a commodity. I guess this would be okay if they actually were platonic. But considering their chemistry arises from the actual love the two of them have, a marriage, and a child they share, that they can split that off and commodify it is prostitution. It's just really stomach churning. If you've got something that appeals to the public, and it has to do with what's created when you perform together, then fine. Make that a commodity. There's no performance without an audience - the audience is naturally a part of it, and why not brand extend.
DeleteBut these are people whose "chemistry" is at the core of what is their private relationship. The fact that they manipulate it and use it also is just gross.
Kurt Browning's wife is on twitter criticizing the dwts judge who criticized Meryl's feet tonight and dared to give her only an 8.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if any others at SC are also slated for or have been promised some sort of ISU position down the road.
Well that's kind of disappointing to hear. Sonia Rodriguez is a principal with the National Ballet of Canada. As a ballet dancer she'd be blind if she didn't realize Meryl has a ton of issues, and the feet is just one on that laundry list.
DeleteEveryone is entitled to an opinion - but yes really not that impressive from Ms. Rodriguez if she actually thinks that Meryl is worth her twitter time on a reality tv show which is basically rigged. Perhaps someone needs to send her a tape of VMs SD this season at the Olympics vs DWs SD and she can let us know how DW outscored VM...now that is an outrage...and folks I can honestly say if a had a kid and I wanted them to learn how to skate - Meryl Davis and Charlie White would not be in my top 40. VM would be in my top 10.
DeleteLastly, I am glad that VM got to work with Dubreuil/Lauzon for one of their exhibition pieces for SOI..and since we are talking about genuine personalities - the best interview regarding VM has come from Jennifer Swan with PJ Kwong. Hands down very respectful with no agenda intended.
Jennifer Swan gave a few interviews, in all of which she seemed incredibly genuine and gave thoughtful, intelligent answers, agreed. I find PJ an irritatingly shallow interviewer, though, I preferred the two with Jacquelyn Thayer.
Delete, 2 of them wi
Oops, scratch that last line!
DeleteAnon at 4:15 pm - anon here at 5:58 pm - I forgot about those interviews with Jacquelyn Thayer which were excellent. And I agree PJ is not the best interviewer..
DeleteTonight Charlie had to lift Candace and he said it was easy because of how she holds herself. He realizes lifts have been difficult for 17 years bc of someone who can't hold their own weight.
ReplyDeleteAnd the scores were finally accurate this week.
That's pretty funny.
DeleteBest DWTS episode ever. Meryl finally gets called out, for all three of - her rumba being too contemporary, her unsightly feet, her lame out-of-synch samba. Candace shows herself to be a more capable liftee than Meryl. Amy absolutely slays both of her dances.
DeleteThe weird part is, I didn't particularly see "sickled feet" on Meryl (which is apparently an Abby Lee Miller sticking point), but I also saw the usual dragged out walking sections, posing sections, big turn turn turn turn turn section, more posing and emoting, and minimal dance. No hip action.
DeleteWhat I appreciated in Charlie's quickstep was he and his partner maintained contact pretty much throughout (torso contact) which doesn't usually happen in even the best celeb/pro pairings on the show. Good job by Sharna.
what were the scores?
DeleteCharlie got a perfect score (40). I believe Amy Purdy also got a perfect score. I haven't seen a video with Meryl's scores (only the dance itself) but I know she got at least one 8.
DeleteThis might be a good time to vote for Candace (and therefore against Meryl).
DeleteMy absolute favorite part of that entire episode was – Charlie (to Candace during their practice lifts) “Don’t grab onto to me” REALLY?! SAY WHAT CHARLIE WHITE?!?! DON’T grab on to you?!?! Ok then.
DeleteSomeone needs to gif this, seriously? LMAO
DeleteThere are a few gif-worthy moments from last night's show, including all the rotational lifts Charlie does where both Sharna and Candace handle their own bodies and carry their own weight. They can be contrasted with DW stuff.
DeleteLook at Charlie being all uppity. "Don't grab onto me!" :) What do you mean, Charlie? Isn't that how it's done?
oc
So apparently the security at the Budweiser Gardens were especially zealous about preventing the audience from filming or taking pictures the show on the other night...nice to know London still has Tessa and Scott's back....
ReplyDeletethank you abby miller for criticizing this stiff bitch. seriously ive never seen a stick twirl so much. i watched virtue moir SOI dance, it was amazing. i mean real dancing and real "modern" dance to it. unreal.
ReplyDeleteAnybody want to take a cyber bet on a certain Olympic curler being spotted at the MTS Centre tomorrow night...?
ReplyDeleteAnon at 3:09 pm - no I wouldn't want to lose the bet, lol..I wouldn't be surprised if we actually get a tweet or two tonight...
DeleteAnd just on time Cassandra changed her instagram profile back to private after having it public for months now. Could be just coincidence but I've gotten too cynical to believe that.
DeleteIt's also hilarious that her headline says " What would love do ". Well, honey, love would not prostitute herself for a trip to Paris and a few little perks.
If you think about it geographically, gf 1 - Quebec, gf2 - Ontario, gf3 theoretically Manitoba...hitting each province heading westward..lol..
ReplyDeleteSailors have a girl in every port...Scott has a sham in every province ;-)
Deletehoy is the new fake scott's girlfriend??
Delete"Sailors have a girl in every port...Scott has a sham in every province ;-)" is that what "when that foghorns blows you know i will be coming home" for them means? ;)
Deletethey forgot about new brunswick, newfoundland and labrador etc.
10:57 - you owe me a new keyboard! :-D
DeleteI've been thinking about this today. Does anyone else think there might be a link between SC's decision to promote stars and personalities over skating concurrent to the ISU WTF-ery with DW's jacked up scores and all of the BS that got thrown at VM with grapevine "change that element or else" directives? I'm thinking a long the lines of an intentional decision to try to further lead fans from paying attention to the skating by focusing on the star/personality crap.
ReplyDeleteThe ISU needs ice dance to remain mysterious and incomprehensible to make backhand deals for the other three disciplines. Having a team like VM that is so superior that even outsiders can see it works against that agenda. The ISU and SC planned ahead when they threw VM under the bus. DW were the vehicle to get ice dance back to the tines of corruption and cheating because they happened to have the wealthiest and most corrupt people behind them.
DeleteVM's PR disaster, lies and moirville only made it easier for them. There was no chance for them to fight back because it could have blown up all of their shams.
Anon 8:50: I have no opinion about V/M's personal life, but I think the fact that the ISU had an agenda for D/W to win, SC was a weakened mess, the sheep-like commentators sprouting that D/W and V/M were "equal" but it was a matter of taste, and most importantly and decisively, a media that is ignorant about figure skating and therefore cannot objectively analyze what happened on the ice, contributed to this gold medal heist. It wasn't one or two factors that led to this happening, it was a whole bunch of intertwined factors. Also, D/W being American and not Russians was a factor, because we all know how the public loves to dump on Russians (see the women's event in Sochi).
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yZMXnes3LoM#t=171
ReplyDeleteVideo of Meryl's SOI fall has turned up. It looks like she goes up, flops over like a rag doll, and because she can't carry her own weight at all, there's nothing the other girls can do to save it.
lol, Ashley just does not give a shit.
Deletehttp://youtu.be/TkLwzhKHmCk?t=2m45s
Here's the clean lift. Looks like Meryl lost balance or Mirai forgot exactly the degree of support she needed, and so Meryl rushed the landing or something. She just cannot control her weight at all.
I've never seen anything like it. The lift was over all she had to do is stand on her own two feet and for whatever reason, couldn't do it. Perhaps one of the other girls forgot to hold Meryl's leg up or stabilize her trunk for her.
DeleteGold medal standard all skaters should aspire to.
^^Not to mention all the lovely positions she hits, all pointed toes and extended limbs. +3 GOE!
DeleteI'm not a huge fan of. The Creep program but I must say the Canadian ladies nailed it. And Ms Weaver did a great job on the part where Meryl fell. I find Meryl just hard to watch overall. I browsed some tumblr accounts relating to her and Charlie and was actually shocked to see people do like them.
DeleteEven with the clean lift you can see how stiff/tense Davis is. Look at her neck, and how she holds her head. The way she lifts and puts down that leg in the lift--rag doll is an appropriate term. They really shouldn't have included her in the number. The difference in costume only exacerbates the 'one of these things is not like the others' feeling.
DeleteThanks for all those DWTS recap. Speechless...I tell ya. Off tangent since we are all still buzzing about the judging. I had to include this (if no one has seen it yet) http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lkvaQkXRhN8. Go to the 5:40 min mark. I was certainly disgusted by the fact that it is just the "way" it is. And it's the passive acceptance/attitude that skaters and coaches have to take. It certainly mocks the idea of ISU coming up with CoP judging in the first place...all just window dressing but same-o style. Of course, voicing this out in the interview isn't going to change things, it seems. But when is this ever going stop? What do you think, OC?
ReplyDeleteSo yesterday I happened to click "next blog" at the top of your page and the next blog was called "Save Skating" . The person hasn't posted in a year HOWEVER her complaints are similar but in relation to over inflation and gifting gold medals towards Patrick Chan. I found it interesting and disturbing. Honestly, skating is a beautiful sport but the freaking judging makes me never want to hear another thing about it! I liked the sentiment of the blog and I'm really hoping a site can be established to have a real pushback against this freakin corruption. No comments from nutjobs just gifs/pictures/rules/looking at the ice/results etc ----OC you would be great at that----I like your critical thinking and analysis
ReplyDeleteI can't speak for OC, or V/M fans at large, but I know many of us feel that Patrick deserved each and every one of his wins. His extraordinary abilities when it comes to PCS makes up for the jumps he misses, the same way that V/M's extraordinary PCS *should* provide a cushion when V/M make a mistake such as on twizzles. The Save Skating blog appears to be coming from the position that CoP is the problem, and a return to 6.0 is the solution. If someone doesn't like that Patrick can win when he falls, I can see how that makes sense, but the problem with V/M vs D/W is that CoP as written isn't being applied. On paper, CoP was made for a team exactly like V/M.
DeleteI'm also not following what you want OC to do beyond what is already being done here? Half of this blog is gifs/pictures/looking at the skating, and links are provided to other blogs/video channels on the web doing the same thing...
You're very right. I agree. I have found that OC has the best write-ups on everything and the links do help. Sometimes I find people discredit the blog because of the sham, which is a shame. But I know what you're saying....the truth is already out there... And those who care will find it
Delete3:17, I agree about Chan. Ironically, Chan's nearest competitors actually do it. Skating fans who object to Chan's wins are looking at other skaters who have good technique. Taken altogether, almost all of the time I think Chan deserves every one of his wins, if, perhaps, the total scores for the entire competition need to be taken down a peg.
DeleteWith Virtue and Moir, their nearest competitiors are bullshit. The reality is, they have no nearest competitors. Mistakes or no mistake, it's a TKO every time they take the ice. If that's not an interesting narrative, too bad. It's reality.
Yeah...TKO is a very appropriate term!!!
Deletehttps://twitter.com/SkateCanada/status/464505337522188289
ReplyDeleteThe fascination Skate Canada officials have with themselves is mind boggling. You can't find a TBT picture of someone fans would actually care about?!?!
Jesus.
Delete3:21
DeleteIKR. And this, in spite of SOI touring through Canada right now with skaters who would be great candidates for a tbt (Browning, Buttle...).
Way to go SC.
This blogger spends waay too much time disecting two people. And for what?? Trying to get people on board to hate T&S as much as she does. And why? Who knows. Failed as a skater? Failed as a coach? Never achieved the level of success expected? Simply doesnt measure up? Why does anyone care so much And hate so deep fot no logical reason? Why would anyone care so much?
ReplyDeleteWell, they dont. Not really. Its a way of self mutilation really...poor soul..so much pain...so much self hatred...
I can't speak for the blogger, but I don't hate T&S and I doubt that most commenters do. I love them. They're my all time favorite skaters. I'm just able to separate that love from some of their hijinx that I don't support. And even if the blogger or commenters dislike them as people, they all seem to worship their skating.
Delete