Meantime, I came upon a video of Derek Hough and Amy Purdy rehearsing for the finals. Here's a gif.
Meryl Davis fans might protest that Derek is stealing Meryl Davis's lift entrance, but I have a suspicion this is Derek's lift. I suspect he's the one who taught the counter-motion entrance to Davis White while working with them on whatever his contribution might have been to their short dance. Derek is prolific, and no doubt not everything they tried made it into the short dance. Something they got from Derek might have made it into the free.
Amazing a 34 year old woman with no feet can get this counter-motion awesomeness in - what? A day. Didn't it take Davis White three years?
Or so we were told.
Here we go. Meryl's jive.
The thing that kills me with Meryl, on ice, and on this show, is she will actually stop and just stand for a beat to catch up or re-set. It's self-indulgent.There is nobody, no dancer, no skater, in a judged competition, who will do that as nakedly as she does it. Meryl's been enabled, so she's fallen into the habit. She has all kinds of bad habits she doesn't put in check because it's never called out.
 |
| The dancing may not be anything to write home about, but at least Maks knows how to costume his partners to look their best. |
 |
| It's exactly like her skating. Lip service (meaning, two beats) towards the dance, then filler. |
Ironically, Maks has complained for years that he, Maks, doesn't get ringers. Derek does, whinges Maks, and you need a ringer to win.This season, Maks got a presumptive ringer. Derek got a partner who doesn't even have fucking legs.The unacknowledged irony is that Maks' partner is actually a severely handicapped mover who has been, and needs to be, enabled, via corruption, to win. Maks has no way of knowing, or, alternatively, admitting, that he doesn't have a ringer. She's bad.
Ah, karma.
Meanwhile, Derek, in Amy, has an Olympic-fit athlete, who, it turns out, has the mind-body awareness/intelligence of a Tessa Virtue/Tatiana Volosozhar, and looks to match. Amy Purdy is someone who can recruit *this* part of her body to compensate for what *that* part of her body can't do. Furthermore, she's somebody with infinite musicality. As someone who has survived bacterial meningitis, the loss of both kidneys, the loss of her legs below the knee, and the threat of losing her arms and hands as well, Amy Purdy is, naturally, nerveless when it comes to a reality show competition. It's hilarious. Derek has the ringer, Maks has the ball and chain, but it's impermissible to acknowledge this.
There's another whole dance to go - the Viennese waltz. Where, I understand, the costuming was special. Bear with me.
Here's Meryl and Maks' "Viennese Waltz":
And gifs:
Look at what she's wearing. The judges have no idea what she did.
I was really looking for animatronics or mechanical dolls to gif as counterpoint, but you-tube search produces too much trash to be able to grab something quickly. I figured South Park would do just as well, same principles.
Tonight's the final. My suspicion is that Amy Purdy will win and they've just thrown tens at Meryl without caring what she does in order to set her up as the presumptive winner, as they did with Ricky Lake versus J.R. Martinez. But there's also the Maks saga, and the drama of the poor Chmerkovskiy who has never won the mirror ball, and the fact that if Amy won, it would be Derek Hough's sixth mirror ball. I'm not sure that's much of a deterrent for the show. Who knew he'd get to win five of them?
There was an interview with John Zimmerman on.... I think NBC, during the Olympics, and he's the one who taught it to them. And they really did start it 3 years ago after their first World Champonship, and he said that it took a looooong time for them to get it LOL (made it sound like they struggled, not just that it was so incredibly difficult, I'm not sure he was supposed to say it that way!), and I can't imagine that was the original form he was going for, considering how neat and tidy him and Ina's tricks were.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I've seen lifts like this before, it's not unusual enough to be Derek's creation. Here it is used in blues dance http://youtu.be/M7fqSI7ZiJI?t=1m5s And Hb/Dn did a similar lift this season too http://youtu.be/3483XHc_z50?t=3m10s
But all that aside, I was so excited and impressed to see Amy do this lift! She is by far the best dancer of the season, but she just keeps raising the bar. Of course Meryl fans will find a way to criticize it, but the fact is Meryl is incapable of doing a lift like this. Over the course of 3 years, she couldn't do anything but the basterdized version of whatever John had in mind.
Thanks! I guess when Davis & White's stuff is promoted, nobody thinks there's any crossover between a skating audience and dance fans, because they made out that the backpack lift was a feat of engineering it took three years to master.
DeleteRight. We're talking Meryl Davis. If it takes three years, it's not because of the thing she's learning. It's her. Three years seems about right as an estimated time frame for her to finally accomplish something basic she hasn't done before.
I agree Amy is by far the best dancer this season, and it's so tiresome to read comments from people who don't understand dance, who believe that she's not dancing. Meryl is doing a whole lot less dancing. Amy did more dancing in the jazz number that used the table top than Meryl's done the entire season. Those who put down Amy really want her to be forced to use her wood/foam feet (which have no give back) to do anything, to stump around the floor. They think it's unfair she gets to compensate. I would suggest that when she compensates it's because a) she has no feet; and b) the rest of her technique is as pristine as it gets in the DWTs celeb dancer department, and leagues and fathoms better than Meryl. Meryl's technique on the floor is as faked and bastardized as her skating, and Amy's is not. Amy Purdy uses external assists to compensate for having fake feet (mostly for leverage and to re-set momentum) and in the process, the rest of what she does is on point. The woman with no feet is more precise and has better technique than the woman who wore a gold medal for ice dance in Sochi. It's an ironic thing to say about a paraplegic, but she's a complete dancer.
oc
The musicality alone she showed in that jazz number was insane. The part where Derek twirls and she pulls his tie in kills me, it was so perfectly done. When has Meryl ever made that precise a movement? But no, Amy was doing nothing but sitting, nothing at all! And of course, when she does try out a pair of feet that have give, in her quickstep, that's unfair because that's where she got all the bounce! The feet move themselves, I suppose, and take no getting used to controlling them to achieve said bounce.
DeleteI believe paraplegic is the term for someone who has spinal cord damage, and hene can't move their legs, vs someone who is an amputee but still has full control of the rest of their body. Still, I get your point, and definitely! She's incredible. I'm going to be so sad next week when we won't get to see her perform anymore!
3:01, thanks very much for explaining the distinction to me.
DeleteAnother point about the running feet - for God's sake, the feet changed Amy's height completely, and perhaps Meryl Davis fans could exercise their imagination about the skill it took to dance with large curved carbon fiber feet - much larger than real feet - in close proximity with a partner's real feet without tripping your partner or getting tangled in your costume. This isn't a comment along the lines of how remarkable it is to see a dog walking on its hind legs - Amy and Derek's quickstep was excellent by objective DWTs celeb standards, feet or no feet.
Meryl Davis fans, though, often struggle understanding that when someone makes something look easy, it doesn't mean it is easy. They can look at those things on her feet, see that she added what looked to be about six inches in height, was working with something much different in size, and they see an unfair advantage. Of course they do. With real feet, Amy wouldn't have been able to achieve that bouncy quickstep. She has no talent and no rhythm. It all came from the carbon fiber.
Len Goodman's remark about lack of torso contact was a bit disingenuous - with those feet, it wasn't possible.
ET's Annie Barrett, whom I've previously consistently enjoyed, has gone totally into the tank for Meryl and Maks - she's a long term Maks fangurl. To the point where she questioned Amy going to the final, and wondered where "ballroom standards" were with Amy's jazz performance. She said when Derek tipped up the table and Amy slid off, it was something she could picture herself doing. Annie, you're welcome to give it a try. And any day now, you can open your eyes.
She's an entertainment reporter, but even here it's irritating when somebody, because of their fan agenda, uses a term like "ballroom standards" when they're unable to recognize those standards in action. If she could, she wouldn't be such a Meryl/Maks fan.
oc
"ET's Annie Barrett, whom I've previously consistently enjoyed, has gone totally into the tank for Meryl and Maks - she's a long term Maks fangurl. To the point where she questioned Amy going to the final, and wondered where "ballroom standards" were with Amy's jazz performance. She said when Derek tipped up the table and Amy slid off, it was something she could picture herself doing. Annie, you're welcome to give it a try. And any day now, you can open your eyes."
DeleteOMG, what an ignorant comment from Annie. I didn't catch that because I mostly just fast-forward through the non-dancing stuff. How can so many people not see that managing your body like that takes a tremendous amount of skill which none of the other contestants possess?
"
ReplyDeleteAmazing a 34 year old woman with no feet can get this counter-motion awesomeness in - what? A day. Didn't it take Davis White three years? "
The saddest part is that Amy makes it look so much easier and lighter than Meryl and Charlie did. Even in a gif you can see how well she holds herself and how much core strength she has while Meryl looked like a dead body somebody just dragged out off a swamp.
Meryl fans these days crack me up. For years they ridiculed VM fans for being enchanted by their chemistry and praised DW for being " authentic " in their inability to look like they have actually met each other before. But now that Meryl finally found a partner who doesn't look apalled by her they are all over it like starving dogs.
But what can you expect, these are the same people who nearly shipped Meryl with Putin simply because he smiled at her ...
If Amy Purdy doesn't win, it will be a crime. None of the other contestants have her body control, musicality, or movement skills. That she can do what she does with prosthetics is incredible, but even if she wasn't performing with a handicap and had her original legs/feet, she'd still be the best dancer on the show.
ReplyDeletei wonder how much meryl paid those tweeters to get her trending at the top worldwide
ReplyDeleteI can't say I know who Tessa Virtue or Tatiana Volosozhar are, but as a long-time fan of the show, I have to say I adore Meryl Davis.
ReplyDeletewhy settle for mediocrity tho? merylbots must be out on full force tonight making sure she gets another undeserved win
Deleteyour missing out on ALOT tbh. there are much more talented and better people than talentless snobby hacks like meryl.
DeleteI understand Meryl's appeal but Amy is the best dancer by a mile. Her control, her sense of rhythm, her musicality--no one comes close
Deletei dont understand meryl's appeal. she's a giant snob with no dance skills and she doesnt need or deserve another undeserved win it would just inflate her already ginormous ego
DeleteWhat appeal does Meryl have? Her dancing is terrible, her voice is grating, and the amount of second-hand embarrassment watching her freestyle dance was too much; it looked like a bastardized version mash-up of "Stay" and "Try":
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCAwdHEUcXM
And again with the pants covering her legs; what's up with that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq5mCu5pJIY
DWTs is who is your favorite dancer, not who is the best dancer. Meryl fans new or old are entitled to adore her. The judges, however, aren't doing their jobs with the double standard they use to score her and the others, and by ignoring her substantial technical deficiencies, not to mention how, just as in ice dance, she repackages the same moves for each dance, and only pays lip service to the actual dance content before walking, posing, and near-kissing.
DeleteBeing a fan of Meryl is one thing. Making claims about her technique is something else. I've seen her fans claim her technique is pristine. Her technique is ass. She's flat footed, she walks more than she dances, she doesn't have rhythm and she doesn't engage her core. She does a lot of little intersticial adjustments, just as she did on the ice. It's all ignored.
These same people look at Davis being dragged along the floor by Maks, the posing sections, the recycling of her limited movement vocabulary, and critique Amy Purdy, who has technique as pristine as any celebrity who has ever been on DWTs, who has an incredible range of motion, is versatile and musical, and are mad because she's allowed to use external resistance for stability, even though that external resistance doesn't warp her technique. It doesn't contort her alignment, it doesn't restrict the rest of her movement, and it doesn't hamper her phrasing or her power.
She IS judged the same as the others - in that what she does shows proper technique and is in the character of the dance, and she excels.
It's always been typical of Meryl fans to point fingers and never ever want their own girl critiqued. Mostly because it's emerged that no argument that Meryl is good technically can be sustained once she's critiqued.
↑↑↑↑really↑↑↑
ReplyDeletefind that hard to believe
oh..u r american! That explains it
i guess hypernationalism brings out the best in mediocrity. as renowned american writer flannery o'connor once said, “Some people might enjoy drain water if they were told it was vodka.” and in this case, meryl davis' skills is the drain water to tessa and tat's vodka.
DeleteWell, it IS an american show...
Delete"If Amy Purdy doesn't win, it will be a crime. None of the other contestants have her body control, musicality, or movement skills. That she can do what she does with prosthetics is incredible, but even if she wasn't performing with a handicap and had her original legs/feet, she'd still be the best dancer on the show."
ReplyDeleteTHIS. Amy is by far the best dancer. SHe is incredible, and I say this as a dancer myself.
The leg kick in every dance kills me tho. Just like skating---nothing new to show from Meryl-recycled CRAP
ReplyDeleteAnd the same over-raught, over-the-top O face expression that was prevelant in her skating.
DeleteThat is supposed to be a ronde, but she doesn't open her hip when she does hers, she just swings her leg around. Also, it is fine to include rondes in different dances, but they should look different to suit the mood of the dance and the particular phrase of music. She does hers at the same speed in each and every dance. But she does everything quickly that she gives the illusion that she is doing it cleanly (and her petite frame helps with this).
Delete7:31 - and her weight. The two things combined - doing it quickly, and her size, give the illusion of being clean. Any snapshot shows her pelvis and hips are tight, and her knee is bent. She will also often rock back on the heel of her opposite foot.
DeleteI have noticed that Meryl not only breaks up the dances with posing and pauses or simple choreography, but also takes stutter steps. She cannot connect the movements smoothly and she cannot carry a rhythm throughout a dance.
ReplyDeleteShe did the same on the ice. Stutter steps, but she'd also stand on two feet and wait. It's amazing. We were all supposed to not see it.
Deleteno offense but why do you guys even care about dancing with the stars.....its basically the last refuge for d-listers trying to cling onto the last piece of relevancy. look at its ratings, no one watches except old people who cant figure out how to change the channel
ReplyDeletequick name who won last year without googling it.
ya i thought so
Amber Riley (I didn't google, and didn't even watch last season).
DeleteKellie Pickler the year before.
I'd have to google the year before that.
the blog isn't covering DWTs, but Davis White. It's another way to deconstruct their movement. Let's see what's skating and what's how they move. So far with Meryl she's pretty bad at both. Charlie is the better mover. The bastardized, dumbed down mechanics in some of their elements appear down to her.
DeleteI honestly find some of the comments about Amy on FSU disgusting and I am really disappointed the mods have allowed it to go on. What a horrible thing to do, to make fun of her for her disability (and they can pretend all they want that that is not what they are doing, but when they say that she is compensating for her disability by dancing on furniture and then make jokes about it including a nasty thread title, that is exactly what they are doing). I hate that they have to define Amy in terms of what she cannot do when what she can do is phenomenal (and so much better than what anyone else there can). They never even gave her a chance.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Prancer tell people in the VM thread that accusing Meryl of being in on the fix was "ugly"? Um, and making fun of a person for having a disability isn't? What are the mods over there doing? be consistent.
DeleteLOL at Meryl's costuming for her Viennese 'waltz'. Try again, DWTS. You're being obvious with the camouflaging.
ReplyDeleteThe best gif is when you have the brothers dancing on the same floor and Meryl does her kick out signature move and brother Val is like making sure she doesn't touch his feet or take him out lol...because that's how much control she has her movement...its priceless...like girl watch what you are doing...and that costuming - for the Viennese waltz...oieee...its a disaster...but seriously folks that kick out move is something else...
ReplyDeleteThat samba routine was horrible, but Danica, even with her injury, blew Meryl away. Look at Danica's rhythm, her sense of the dance and compare it to Meryl's. There really is no comparison.
DeleteShe can't take any adjustments whatsoever. Partnering her is all about the partner fitting himself around her, including, as you describe, Val having to take adjustments because she can't control her own body. It's that, or the guy steps in and takes over moving for the both of them, while she's just like a sack of potatoes. That's it.
DeleteYes, and Danica had better posture - more open in the chest and lifted in the ribs.
Deletewho wants to have a laugh:
ReplyDelete"No. Tessa's back arch in her 2014 Olympic program looked awful. Meryl's was great in both of her Olympic programs. Give me valid evidence that Tessa's wasn't a layback combo.
The fact that you're comparing a fluff competition to the Olympics is very amusing. I just watched Meryl's Stars on Ice and it was great. Meryl has much better skills than Tessa. She is more flexible and uses her upper and lower body much better. Meryl is the perfect female ice dancer because she's light and small (Tessa is too big and heavy). My "said attempts" to defend Meryl? No, I am just a realist and I am mature and objective with my views (unlike you). You can argue until you're blue in the face, but you cannot be objective and you do NOT follow the ISU figure skating rulebook. Davis and White are superior skaters under the rulebook. Get over it!"
god the meryl bots are so pathetic
"Meryl is the perfect female ice dancer because she's light and small (Tessa is too big and heavy)."
DeleteSo Meryl's physique is the reason why she is a *better* dancer/skater than Tessa? Okay then.
she also thinks tessa and meryl were doing the same spin in 2014 like wtf? i think this person needs lasik.
Deletebtw heres the link to the comment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-XX7xLr1M8&feature=youtu.be
DeleteThey compare a layback with an Y spin. These Meryl's fans kill me. Seriously.
Deleteshe still thinks its a layback omfg these meryl fans have lost all of their reasoning in their poor attempts to defend her.
DeleteBehold the objectivity of D/W ubers: "at least I am objective and admitted that V/M deserved the 2010 OGM because I follow the rulebook). D/W are superior skaters under the rulebook for the past two years. Get over it!
DeleteJFC.
"at least I am objective and admitted that V/M deserved the 2010 OGM because I follow the rulebook). D/W are superior skaters under the rulebook for the past two years. Get over it!"
DeleteAnd they are akwnoweledged people! Except huh. They aren't.
"and it is a subjective sport."
typical DW's fan argument.
"We can debate this topic until the next millenium, but I have no interest in doing that."
typical DW's fan statement.
Fandom wars are so stupid. Stop bringing up the rulebook when you obviously haven't read it and know very little about skating. That goes for both sides.
Delete"We can debate this topic until the next millenium, but I have no interest in doing that."
DeleteThat's because DW's fans are not interested in pure ice dance and in technique AT ALL. They watch ice dance just to have chills and emotions. Oh and the coreography with the music, the hair and the costumes, of course! WTF.
5:14 PM except who on the v/m side is acting like these d/w fans when it comes to the rulebook?
DeleteLots of VM fans parrot what they've read here when it's obvious they know very little about ice dance and haven't read the rulebook. If you're going to position yourself as objective and fact-based, try to inform yourself, don't just take someone else's word for it.
Deleteso? all OC is trying to do is teach people about the rulebook whats wrong if they learn something from that?
DeleteThey don't, that's the problem. They latch unto various arguments because they support their point of view but they don't understand them and end up looking silly trying to argue something they don't understand.
DeleteThey also mix up what's actually in the rulebook with what OC thinks should be included. For example, there's nothing about lift mechanics in COP and if you've read the rules, you know that. The number of VM fans who've read the rules from start to finish is likely very small.
I see where this is going. "The blogger is sometimes wrong about COP and most V/M fans blindly follow her/his lead." That's quite the assumption. It's also incorrect.
DeleteI'm sure there are some people who frequent this blog that don't care to read the rulebook and only regurgitate what is written here (sometimes mixing up what was originally stated), just as there are plenty of people who post on FSU who don't know fuck all about figure skating.
I have read and understand the ice dance rulebook. I can also follow what the blogger has stated about it, and understand that s/he is plainly breaking down how lift mechanics are at the very basis of what constitutes a lift itself, which then (naturally) leads to how its level and GOEs should be scored according to the rules laid out in the rulebook. Davis and White's lift mechanics are/were often atrocious. Lots of white knuckled gripping, awkward bending, terrible use of core strength to hold ones own weight in the air, etc.
According to the official rulebook, some characteristics of lifts that specify a lowering of GOE include: "fumbling," "struggling," "labored," "unstable," "shaky," and a loss of balance or awkwardness during rotation, entrances/exits, and rotations. All of those things relate directly to lift mechanics. With proper mechanics, those negative characteristics decrease or are eliminated in a lift. So yes, the COP rulebook very much includes lift mechanics in its scoring protocol. To say it doesn't is as stupid as saying a 12th grade English book doesn't talk much about the alphabet. It only looks at complete sentences, so the alphabet isn't really that important to writing.
The problem with D/W's lifts is that they lack of proper technique (mechanics) and they result shaky most of the times, and judges don't do their job when they reward those lifts. But it's true that on the rulebook it's not accurately specified the level of complexity of a lift: a V/M's carmen straight line lift should earn a level 8, contrary to the unstable and semplified version of D/W this year.
DeleteWhen a D/W's fan comes out and say: D/W have better lifts, footwork, twizzles (and the twizzles are well described in the rulebook with good criteria, also the footwork and the step sequences - such as "covering more ice, in close hold, being frontal to each other not in parallel, sustaining and edge" etc. etc.) and they fail to provide any arguments, they fail two times: 1) because they don't know the difference between a counter turn and a rocker turn, so God forbid to talk about mechanics, physics and ice dance 2) because they don't know the rulebook - they don't give a fuck that an Y spin is different from a layback.
The problem is: there are plenty of points in which DW's skating crashes. And it's all useless because people won't change his/her personal mind. But those statements from both side of the fans stay there, they don't change anything, they don't change the fact that DW didn't deserve 3/4 of their medals.
the meryl fans are so fucking pathetic and they've gotten even MORE obnoxious ever since last night. check this one out:
Delete"Do you people need a Seeing-Eye dog? I will grant you that they were good. But Virtue, alongside Meryl Davis, looked like a Klutz. She just looked very awkward on some of her moves. Davis was flawless. That's why Virtue/Moir lost the gold."
oh god what a joke
The fact that this person feels the need to make a joke about requiring a seeing eye dog says a lot about them.
DeleteI actually don't think Meryl is a terrible dancer--I just don't think she is a very good one. I personally find her appealing as a performer but I see a lot of areas of her skating and dance technique that need work. Meryl has a beautiful long neck that she extends nicely upward. This gives the illusion of great posture but if you look at the area of the waist and hips, the area most indicative of movement control and technique (and issues with movement control and technique), it falls apart. She pitches forward because she cannot control her body while skating and/or dancing. She cannot do slow sections of actual dancing or skating on one foot because she lacks the control to do so. I still enjoy watching her, though.
I just want to say that I think 7:09/7:44 made a very fair point.
Delete"I see where this is going. "The blogger is sometimes wrong about COP and most V/M fans blindly follow her/his lead." That's quite the assumption. It's also incorrect.
I'm sure there are some people who frequent this blog that don't care to read the rulebook and only regurgitate what is written here (sometimes mixing up what was originally stated), just as there are plenty of people who post on FSU who don't know fuck all about figure skating.
I have read and understand the ice dance rulebook."
I'm not following why this is quite the incorrect assumption then. You've read the rulebook, but say that there's probably other fans that don't. 7:09/7:44 wasn't saying there were no fans that read the rulebook thoroughly, just that they were rare, and I have to agree. Even Ice Dance Analysts - their last post had more than one error. And then here's an example from binker in that youtube thread:
"v/m had 3 spins compared to d/w's two spins which is more difficult to do and maintained speed in all three of their spins meanwhile d/w slowed down considerably in their 2nd spin."
V/M fans should take care to differentiate if they're talking about what may or may not be objectively difficulty or the rulebook. V/M had 3 positions because Tessa's in the first position, a basic camel position, isn't classified as difficult for the women. So they had to do more to get a L4 under the rules, the 3rd position wasn't just to show off.
1:25 here, I am 110% on V/M's side btw. Since someone below is making the assumption that the person who mentioned lift mechanics isn't one, I thought I would clarify. Also, IIRC, it was OC who made the "CoP doesn't say enough about lift mechanics argument" a few weeks ago.
Delete1:25, I just checked the last Ice Dance Analysts entry because I only remembered there being one error. I just left a comment on the IDA blog, but assuming you were the commenter April 19 at 23:44 on that last entry, you are right on point one but they are right on the second one about the lift in the team event FD. In the original iteration of the straight line lift, Scott hits an intermediate position before he moves into the difficult position that is held for 3 second and is considered and given level credit. Since he hits that intermediate position, the spread eagle entry would not have met the criteria for difficult/creative entry. Tessa's turn to face full forward does count as significant transitional movement to reach the desired pose. That's what counted as their creative/difficult entry. With the changed lift for the FD, they actually fulfill the requirements for a creative/difficult entry twice with Scott maintaining the spread eagle and Tessa's significant transition.
DeleteIDA's last post did only have the one error, not more than one.
"
"v/m had 3 spins compared to d/w's two spins which is more difficult to do and maintained speed in all three of their spins meanwhile d/w slowed down considerably in their 2nd spin.""
It's best for my blood pressure not to read youtube comments, but I actually wonder if Binker is even talking about the spins here or if she meant twizzles. Because VM doing three sets and DW only doing two and the second slowing significantly sounds an awful lot like the twizzles.
7:08, I disagree with your interpretation of the rules, but I have posted my full explanation on the other blog.
DeleteRe: binker, ah, you could be right. Since it was in reply to the layback comment, I assumed that was the topic being discussed.
Its really hard to believe yuzuru hanyu said in an interview that he was inspired by meryl's dancing, kid has no taste in ice dance.
ReplyDeletehe probably only said that because she did the ice with him and they are friends. all the ice dancers (or a least a good majority of them specifically russian ice dancers) are on team v/m anyway. and he's a singles skater what does he know about dance anyway tbh the way he interprets choreography isnt as great anyway compared to the likes of chan, ten, daisuke anyway but he is only a kid and has room for improvement so...
DeleteIs anyone at FSU intervening or sticking up for Amy?
ReplyDeleteim avoiding fsu like the plague nowadays considering the amount #merylbots that are running rampant
DeleteThis group of fans have branched out now and alienated not just ice skating fans, but fans of DWTs. They bring the same brand of aggressive, personal put downs of Meryl's competition, and intolerance of ANY criticism of Meryl to every comment they make.
DeleteThis is the monster the FSU mods and other enablers have created. They let the more aggressive DW fans get away with all kinds of offensive behavior and before we know it this gang will be running FSU.
DeleteI also find it interesting that some VM fans were also fans of DW and used to post in the DW thread but seem to be M.I.A. there recently. Maybe because those same aggressive DW ubers chased them off with their pitch forks?
"This is the monster the FSU mods and other enablers have created." Exactly. Remember, FSU is the place where one can call a person a "Greedy Jew" and get away with it. But no criticism of D/W is allowed, or they will turn you in to the FBI.
DeleteInteresting
ReplyDeleteIn the last element of competition, the couples will perform a new routine as part of a "24 Hour Fusion Challenge." The remaining couples will Fuse two contrasting dance styles that they've performed this season and they'll have less than 24 hours to prepare that dance for judges' points.
I could have sworn the last couple of seasons, at least in the all star season, they did an "instant dance" where the song and dance style was assigned THAT NIGHT and there was only 30-60 minutes to prepare a routine. Now that they have the Olympic ice dance champion on the show, they get 24 hours.
I couldn't believe that I got an email today from "Skating" magazine, telling me to vote for Meryl on "DWTS." ?! Jeez Louise, the Davis Family has obviously been out in full force, and USFS is doing their bidding.....
ReplyDeleteyou should send a complaint lol
DeleteLooks like Meryl is probably going to win. The producers are playing up the Meryl/Maks showmance hard and I'm sure enough people are buying into it, even though it's not very believable. They're also playing up the producer-created "she's tamed him!" storyline about Maks and are focusing on how he's never won before, this is his last hurrah, etc.
ReplyDeleteNone of it has to do with dancing skills, it has to do with producer-created storylines. But what else is new? If it was actually based on dancing skill, Purdy would take home the mirrorball.
dwts was totally rigged so abc can promote their skating shows. to bad that wont revive the so called dying interest of skating in the usa
ReplyDeletelmao for all the whining d/w fans did about v/m's chemistry, they really changed their tune when meryl rode that showmance train all the way to the trophy. almost every one of their routines had at least a 30 second choreographed ~sexual tension~ pause lmao
ReplyDeletethose near kisses are so cheesy it makes me want to puke! ;)
DeleteI agree. Sometimes I think Meryl wishes she were Tessa. When VM pull their shenanigans on the ice it's just them being them--Meryl looks like she's faking it looks so awkward.
Deletethis is going to be petty as hell but idgaf. meryl is so obviously jealous of tessa and thats because
Delete1. tessa's dance technique is FLAWLESS as she is objectively a better dancer than meryl will ever be.
2. tessa has a DESERVED gold medal that isnt tainted by allegations of collusion
3. tessa has an actual partner who actually acknowledges her presence and deeply cares about her
poor meryl i feel bad for her sometimes :( people question all her wins and people always make fun of her looks. if i were her i'd want to be tessa as well. then i think to myself "why should i feel bad for a spoiled snob with a string of undeserved wins?"
let's hope Purdy wins tonight! all meryl did was move her feet at lightning speed and twirl at lightning speed- ill give her that. her posture sucked, but her "dance hold" was always tight and you can tell that's from ice dancing. the use of her hair and undiscovered relative hotness helped. she and maks have chemistry. it's true. but they're not dating. she's got some boyf and he's a showman. he does whatever it takes to win and respect. but that last dance were easy lifts and posing. Purdy's had too much lifts but that rope trick is the epitome of core and strength. that idiot Bruno should have given him a ten. I never watch this show but had to bc of meryl and Charlie. MC dance tonight. now that's gonna be interesting.
ReplyDeletewe all know this shit will be rigged for meryl to win, but it's Purdy who should win. her latin dance before the free style was amazing.
So much hate here! Honestly blogs like this give Canada a really bad reputation as sore losers. V/M didn't help when they whined about their coach after the Olympics. D/W didn't whine after their silver 4 years ago.
ReplyDeleteThe "Experts" spouting off here is laughable--read all the skating books you want. Meryl Davis is a beautiful and exquisite skater and dancer. AND it looks like the rest of the world agrees. So rage on haters!
I know losing is not fun, but if you don't think
What is the deal with everything said by the blogger constituting "hate" to you people? Revealing that DWTS is not a show about the best dancer, but about how all the contestants are storyboarded by producers and behind it all is a marketing plan apparently constitutes hate when Meryl Davis is the winner, yet those same fans claiming so have no problem understanding how Candace Cameron stayed around to the final, and have no qualms making assertions Amy Purdy was unfairly scored high because her disability gave her some kind of advantage. Please.
DeleteThe show is not a real dance contest. The Meryl/Maks fake showmance was storyboarded within an inch of its life (and might have been more believable except the producers did that every year with Maks and Meryl always looked awkward in those "intimate" moments, even when she was trying not to), and the show played up how Maks had never won before, this is his last hurrah, yadda, yadda. The blogger has laid most of this out in various posts and anyone with a brain and who isn't naive enough not to know how these shows work would see that, except for when they're purposefully wearing blinders because they so badly want their "favorite" to win regardless of how much actual dance ability that person has.
lol, i love how you assume that we are all Canadians. I actually think the blogger is American. And since when does the audience of a call-in show, many of whom were already DW/Meryl fans, constitute "the rest of the world"?
DeleteI noticed that you can't actually address any of the arguments made here...interesting...
@5:34, if you didn't think the "experts" here were actually on to something about Meryl's lack of technique, why are you here commenting?
DeletePeople with inferiority complexes make the kinds of posts you just made. I know Virtue and Moir are superior skaters and dancers to Davis and White. When Virtue and Moir won the Olympics in 2010, I never felt the need to go spout off at angry Davis and White fans who complained about the results. I didn't need to. Virtue and Moir had the hardware in their hands. I was confident in their win. It was rightly earned.
I argue Meryl Davis's gold medal wasn't rightly earned and like the blogger can utilize the actual rulebook to back up my assessments instead of doing things like claiming the rulebook doesn't say what it actually does or that actually breaking down the technical aspects of skating is silly despite ice dance being a sport where the skating is supposed to be broken down technically. But it doesn't change the reality that Meryl has the gold medal.
If you were confident in Meryl's win, you wouldn't be here. You wouldn't care what a blog is saying about her lack of skating and dancing technique. You would ignore it. Yet here you are.
"The "Experts" spouting off here is laughable--read all the skating books you want. Meryl Davis is a beautiful and exquisite skater and dancer. AND it looks like the rest of the world agrees. So rage on haters!"
DeleteThat's pathetic.
I think some Meryl Davis fans are frustrated, because they thought Sochi (and now DWTs) would get people to "admit" that Meryl Davis is good. Unfortunately, the rules and standards say she's not good, and the rules and standards haven't changed. So her "wins" aren't as validating as they'd hoped. All they do is highlight that the competitions are rigged.
There are actual gifs here showing Meryl is NOT the perfect dancer some fans claim she is. If she were so perfect she would be able to dance a routine without stopping and posing, she would be able to extend her legs on her own, she would be able to dance at more than one speed (lightning fast). Why is it that she can't do slow sections without stopping and standing on two feet (and staring into Maks's eyes to distract us from what she is actually doing)?
DeleteFurthermore, I love how some people believe an "assertion" trumps an argument. It doesn't. An argument is basically reasons. Meryl Davis fans are never able to declare a relevant reason for their claims about Meryl Davis. They're never able to point to any part of her technique to justify their claims that she's got strong technique. That's not hocus pocus, that's simple logic.
DeleteAs Meryl Davis fans "have no interest" in logical support for what they say about Meryl, it must mean that logic is a bad thing.
I've been reading this blog for three fucking years now and not once has someone come over here and posted anything backing up their claims of Meryl Davis's talent/exquisite technique.
DeleteIf the people screaming "haters!" believe Meryl Davis's gold medal win was legitimate, that would mean they could break down her skating technique and show how it matched up with the criteria for the highest levels and GOE. They can't do that. They come up with every excuse not to do it. They've relied on baseless assertions, name-calling, and dumbass arguments like "the protocols say she's the best so she's the best," etc. And now my new favorite: "COP doesn't say anything about lift mechanics, it has nothing to do with the scoring."
What? OF COURSE lift technique is a crucial aspect of COP and is supposed to directly determine the scoring of those elements. You can't separate the mechanics from lifts!
Since they wont/can't actually break down Meryl Davis's technique despite technique being the core of the sport and what is supposed to be scored, I'm led to believe those fans know deep down that her wins are the result of politicking. If not, they wouldn't be here.
That this blog gets so many people up in arms is evidence they're pissed it's on to something and they don't want whatever that is revealed or uncovered. If that wasn't the case, they'd ignore it.
If D/W's wins weren't because of politics but because judges accurately judged their technique, fans could break down that technique and show how it matched up with the scoring as set down in the rulebook. If fans can't break down technique, or refuse to do so by offering up excuses, that means they know those wins were political in nature. If they weren't political, the breakdowns would be rather straightforward and easy to do. Only people unsure whether the wins were legitimately earned via the rulebook instead of politics would vacillate and attempt as much deflection as D/W fans do. It's very illuminating insofar as the current corruption of the entire sport is concerned.
DeleteIt's a house of cards.
6:34 AM - the only people who complained about virtue/moir's win were hypernationalist americans who know NOTHING about the rulebook and totally forgot about the deduction d/w got. the rest of the world didnt care and thought it was a fair win. the all of the ice dance community agreed with the win with gwendal peizerat saying its the best competition he'd ever watch (can someone back me up on this because i dont rmr his exact words :[) OTOH in sochi people from AROUND THE WORLD thought v/m were robbed (tbh it was probably triggered by the l'equipe article) they were so robbed you even have ice dancers going on national tv in russia during worlds saying they were robbed. even russian-american ice dancer Peter Tchernyshev said they should've won and that D/W and B/S should've equally be in third place.
Delete^^Anon 10:16: he said "I'm proud of ice dancing tonight".
DeleteHere's a great compliation of all the praised they've garnered over the years:
http://compulsorydances.blogspot.ca/search/label/the%20quote%20project
Meryl Davis fans are incredibly insecure. Prior to Sochi, it was nonstop complaining about how VM fans refused to admit that DW had caught up to VM and were now as good as VM. Keep complaining, no VM fan is going to give Meryl Davis fans what they need, because the fact is, DW aren't as good as VM, nor as good as any number of other top dancers out there. They're crap, they've been exposed, and the "sport" has been exposed as awarding Davis White points they didn't earn on the ice. Match the rulebook to the skating. It doesn't match. That's the proof.
DeleteI think her fans expected Meryl's wins would feel better than it does. Perhaps a component of this anticipation was the expectation that they'd finally shut the naysayers up, and the naysayers would admit her abilities. But the naysayers can't admit what isn't true. The rules and the actual skating (and now, dancing) that Meryl does makes that impossible for anybody with eyes in their head and an understanding of dance or skating.
Meryl Davis's wins have been agenda wins. The USFSA never had an ice dance gold before, so give them one even though they don't deserve it on the ice. Whiny Maksim Chmerkovskiy never won the mirror ball trophy thanks to his lackluster choreography, but it's been thirteen years of him refusing to learn and change, and how unfair that he still doesn't have one. What better partner for him than Meryl Davis, the woman who just walks out there (literally) and everybody pretends she's doing good dancing or skating and throws points at her without bothering to look at her, because it doesn't matter what she's doing. She's set up, on the ice and on the dance floor, as deserving it "cause I've/we've waited, and isn't this about taking turns?" Matched set, Meryl and Maks.
BTW, there is no way Maks and his brother Val aren't aware that Meryl is a bad dancer. They don't care either. They just wanted the win.
7:31 - they've also relied on controlling and shutting down discussion. Name calling and bullying and intimidation via reputation points.They're spoiled. They can't believe the internet actually "allows" criticism of Meryl.
They know she's not good or they wouldn't be so insecure. As has been rightly pointed out, nobody ran all over the internet getting defensive when some DW fans whined about Vancouver. VM fans knew they were the best.
10:35 AM thanks :) V/M carried the sport on their backs this quad while D/W piggybacked (kinda like how the animals piggybacked on the little red hen or however that fable goes :/) and robbed V/M of whats rightfully theirs based on the rulebook and performances. d/w may have the gold but they dont have the same recognition and respect that v/m have from their peers because a MAJORITY of ice dancers knew D/W's OGM was undeserved. D/W cant have their cake and eat it to. i cant even fathom as to how people can think D/W can bring popularity to this sport when it was their wins who destroyed it anyway.
Deletewhat ever happened to that blog btw? i miss it :(
Thanks for that link 10.35 - just confirms the impact Tessa and Scott have had on this sport. While Sochi was disappointing, I know in the long run which couple changed the face of ice dance, inspired others and will be remembered for years to come.
Delete@1:03 Even the Brit commentators working for NBC online admitted that VM had the best skating skills and were the example to follow for kids coming up in the sport.
DeleteAnon 1:19: which makes the Sochi outcome all the more harder to swallow. When you have commentators saying they had the best skating skills, then why didn't they win this supposed skating skill competition? I'm sure these same commentators couldn't utter a word about DW's "skills".
Delete"Meryl Davis fans are incredibly insecure. Prior to Sochi, it was nonstop complaining about how VM fans refused to admit that DW had caught up to VM and were now as good as VM. Keep complaining, no VM fan is going to give Meryl Davis fans what they need, because the fact is, DW aren't as good as VM, nor as good as any number of other top dancers out there. They're crap, they've been exposed, and the "sport" has been exposed as awarding Davis White points they didn't earn on the ice. Match the rulebook to the skating. It doesn't match. That's the proof."
DeleteIt's not just fans of Meryl Davis who are incredibly insecure, though. It's a large majority of figure skating fans/participants overall, who simultaneously complain about political results but try to downplay the overall corrupt nature of the sport even though several of their favorites rely on it to win. Many know its dirty to its core, but are terrified of that being called out. They don't want the sport attacked, because they are benefiting from the corruption (their favorites are winning!), or they get off on all the drama and gossip (a large majority of FSU). So they fob off the problem of corruption on the Russians, claiming they're the problem and deviations from the norm, all while ignoring the corruption of their own skaters/feds.
That's the true nature of the sport. It's definitely a house of cards.
4:47 pm - can't argue with that.
Deleteoc
One need only look at the reaction to Sotnikova's OGM, a result that was much more reasonable than that in the ice dance event given that Sotnikova is actually a good skater (though not as good as Kim or Kostner) and had very strong technical content. People weren't afraid to openly question a result which saw an 'eville Russian' winning.
DeleteMeryl is Queen of Ice dance and DWTS. :) Swallow that you sore losers!! ;) There's a new queen bee!
DeleteThe Sotnikova result was probably politicked, but that's sort of the larger point. Most skating fans/people in the skating world need a scapegoat to blame all of the corruption on, and that scapegoat is Russia.
DeleteIt's no secret that Russia DOES engage in corruption, but so do all of the other big federations. In order to cover up the larger foundational problems in the sport (the ones that facilitate all of the corruption), everyone goes "oh, it's Russia that always makes us look bad! If it weren't for them, skating would be clean!"
No it wouldn't.
9:11 PM, see posts 6:34, 6:44, 7:31, and 10:37 AM. Enjoy your ride on the "We're desperate for validation!" train. I'm sure it has a ton of passengers.
Delete9:11 PM sorry theres only one queen meryl on this planet and that is MERYL STREEP at least she won her academy awards based on merit alone. cant say the same for davis as her OGM was won due to corruption.
Delete"It's no secret that Russia DOES engage in corruption, but so do all of the other big federations. In order to cover up the larger foundational problems in the sport (the ones that facilitate all of the corruption), everyone goes "oh, it's Russia that always makes us look bad! If it weren't for them, skating would be clean!"
DeleteI think Russia know this is its role in the ISU games.
Yep, I think it does too.
DeleteHey, 5:34am, what do you call Meryl "fans" making fun of a woman who doesn't have legs? I'd definitely call that hate. If there's so much "hate" on this blog, you'd better own up to disgraceful hate from Meryl "fans" that was lobbied against Ms. Purdy. Pot, meet kettle! Also, finishing one's sentences is sort of a must when one is making an argument. I guess that you were too busy spending hours, cheating to vote for Meryl again and again to actually show up for English class.
ReplyDeleteI am glad this season of the show is over since it hopefully means we don't have to listen to any more jokes about Amy's disability or whinging from some Meryl fans that Amy's disability gives her an unfair advantage. Pathetic.
DeleteThese people have so much gall. They are so happy that Derek was second "...despite the rigging for him and "poor" Amy".
DeleteWTF is wrong with these people?
@2:05
DeleteA lot. Clearly.
It really says a lot about your dancing when you have less control in your feet than a person who literally doesn't have feet.
ReplyDeleteDancing is harder when you have real feet. That's the position of Meryl Davis fans. No feet gives you an advantage.
DeleteThat must be something they picked up from Doris's Intro to Physics class, OC...
DeletePhew. So glad thats over with. Now you can go back to full time slaughtering of virtue moir and their families. Sweet. ; /
ReplyDeleteNot only is meryl lacking technical talent...she is quite unpleasant to look at..kind of like that blue character...anyways the winner of dwts was predetermined peeps! Just like sochi ! Time to move on ! Many have said to be given awards bears a burden far greater than earning them. She probably wont sleep well. No wait.....she doesnt appear to be that intelligent... she probably thinks she is that good LOL LOL LOL
ReplyDeletelol why is goldenskate acting like meryl just won the presidential election with that new 'meryl davis - usfs' new superstar' thread
ReplyDeleteyo she won dancing with the stars
DANCING
WITH
THE
STARS
do we live in some alternate universe where dwts isn't full of irrelevant d-listers who nobody will remember the names of next week...?
dwts isnt a real competition. its a reality show based heavily on fictional storylines that have nothing to do with reality she might as well have been an actress in a movie playing a character who wins a piece of metal or whatever the mirrorball is made of. plus the USFSA main focus now is gracie gold.
Deletelol but my point isn't even that it's fake, it's that it's DANCING WITH THE STARS and everyone on that show is a desperate clinger-on hard up for cash wanting an extra 30 seconds of fame. illustrious former alumni: bristol palin, rob kardashian, the situation. and those are the ones people actually know, not to speak of all the nobodies that make it on. people don't call it dancing with d-listers for nothing...
Deletelmao @ people acting like this has made meryl a household name and is going to singlehandedly boost ticket sales for skate america/us nats and make figure skating more popular like michelle kwan did. like ???????????????????????
DANCING
WITH
THE
STARS
Meryl Davis fans want validation. They look at everything Tessa Virtue is, appropriate it for Meryl and then claim Tessa lacks it. Davis White looked at everything Virtue Moir had, including chemistry, claimed to possess it themselves without ever demonstrating it, then commissioned articles from pseudo experts claiming VM lacked connection on the ice.
DeleteIt all springs from tremendous insecurity that will never be appeased, because Meryl Davis is not a good ice dancer, nor is she a good dancer, period. All the contrived "wins" in the world won't change that. The very fact that her supporters are unable to make a reality-based case for her abilities just reinforces their need for external reassurance. There's no there there with her. Her fans are just in uber overcompensation mode. The areas that they fawn over the most with her are the areas where they feel most insecure about her.
I've never seen a group of people so desperate to kill any criticism of their favorite skater, though I never paid that much attention to the debates about past skaters.
DeleteRegardless, if someone was to say to me "Tessa Virtue (or any other skater) didn't deserve to be scored for this or that," I would then go look at the performance, break it down per the rulebook, and decide whether I agreed with that assessment. I wouldn't automatically argue the person questioning her scores is just jealous, or a sore loser, or whatever. I wouldn't do that because I'm not a twelve year old girl, that's why.
It's really quite comical, the excuses that have been made over the years by D/W fans about why breaking down the technical aspects of D/W's skating doesn't need to be done. It screams that they can't do it, for one. But it also screams that they know they can't do it and instead rely on their feelings to dictate what is a good program or not, which has nothing to do with the rulebook. They also try to, as OC has said, go ga ga apeshit about Meryl's (and it's usually her, not Charlie) amazing abilities, which are always the aspects of her skating that are the poorest. It's like they think if they praise her loud enough, nobody will notice the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
I'm not jealous or upset that Meryl Davis won DWTS. I care that her performances on that show further highlighted her technique deficiencies. I'm not jealous of her and White's gold medal. I have no idea why I would be "jealous" of any of that. I don't hate, nor am I jealous of anything D/W have done. What I am pissed as hell about is that they won a gold medal they didn't deserve because the team that was superior on the ice, who met and exceeded every bit of criteria in the ice dance rulebook beyond anything D/W could (and did) accomplish, was denied the win by corrupt judging panels. It's part of the larger corrupt aspect of the sport, and it should be called out.
I was thinking about this and how the VM fandom would react had it been Tessa who won DWTS. I think OC is on point with the validation. Of course we'd be happy for Tessa, but I don't think the majority of VM fans would lord it over everyone's head as "proof" of Tessa's talent and insist they now they had to admit she was good.
DeleteThe types of discussions I am picturing are not "Tessa got 10s, and her competitor is sitting on a table, and Tessa won!" I can imagine VM fans breaking the dancing of Tessa, or Scott, down into gifs and saying wow at this move or that move or describing how well something was DONE. The actual dancing.
I'm just not seeing that in the Meryl fans here or on FSU. I see a lot of omg over their chemistry, the way they look at each other, how beautiful Meryl looks, complaining that she deserved better scores or others deserved lower ones. And most of those complaints were not detailed, but just "she was so good!" or "if so-and-so could get a 9, Meryl should get a 10." Pretty much the same way they like to discuss figure skating.
Which is fine. It's just not reasonable to be into stuff at that level and then expect people to have to admit she's good. The answer can't be "she's good because won DWTS." That just puts her on the level of someone like Hines Ward.
It would be like saying about Tessa: "she's good because she has years of ballet" without actually explaining how that ballet training informs her skating.
Speaking of co-opting, Tessa is going to be in Canada's 50 most beautiful people. Wanna bet Meryl ends up in the next edition of the US 50 most beautiful?
DeleteIf Tessa had been up against Amy Purdy, I'd have been damn nervous. I don't think I'd be running around desperately pointing out that Purdy needed leverage and stability to get the job done, because it was plain her actual technique - as opposed to her physical challenge - was on point. Meryl Davis fans wanted Purdy's physical challenge factored into the assessment of her technique and her dancing. They wanted Purdy's dancing to become undone by her physical challenges. What else were all the complaints about her being in hold or on a chair or on a table about? They knew why that leverage was employed, and Purdy used that support and executed brilliantly.
DeleteMeryl Davis fans exposed themselves as people who wanted Purdy to be forced to stomp around the floor without external leverage or stability, so that her disability would drive her dancing. They wanted her disability to be a literal handicap. Why else did they object to the chair and the lifts? They were disgusting. She's actually handicapped! Don't let her use a chair or a table or Derek so we can see she's actually crippled and therefore not as good as Meryl!
Good God, the whining on here is something else and only makes you look jealous.
ReplyDeleteThis is coming from someone who is the furthest thing from a Meryl fan, BTW. Grow up. Why do you even care about Meryl winning a reality show? Or what DW fans say about it? It's got nothing to do with VM and their skills.
Well if it has to do with a team with fake skills winning the OGM over VM, it has a lot to do with VM and their authentic skills.
DeleteI guess it's easier to come over here and throw insults instead of contributing constructively with evidence backed up by the rulebook to present legitimate arguments supporting DW's win over VM.
In fact, if you don't want to present it here, VM fans welcome you to present it ANYWHERE on the net, really after all these years, have yet to see any thoughtful, detailed analysis of DW's superior skills.
Ever wonder why that is, or are you too busy making up cute little nicknames for DW or finding different ways to insult "Queen Meryls" current and obviously more talented competition, Amy Purdy?
I don't really care that Meryl Davis won the show. Good for her. I do think Amy Purdy was the better dancer and deserved to win because of that, but I know that's not how the show works.
DeleteThe blogger decided that watching how Meryl Davis and Charlie White danced "opposite" one another on DWTS might shed light on which one was the weaker of the two on the ice that resulted in the need for all the gripping, white-knuckling, re-setting, and two footing in their programs. What DWTS revealed was that the weaker of the two was Meryl Davis, because she continued to require the re-setting and other work arounds in place of technique in her performances with Maks.
How that constitutes whining or being jealous I have no idea. Jealous of...what, exactly?
@12:16AM
DeleteI think the mean comments about Meryl's looks are petty (and unlike 3:43, I don't think you are a DW uber) but the discussion of her dance technique and flaws therein are valid because that is supposed to mean something in ice dance and it does shed light on the issues they had in their ice dancing. Also, it seems the 'do everything quickly and with lots of emotion' approach constitutes superior dancing on this show. It was interesting to see Meryl and Charlie dancing with different partners because we got to see more of their individual strengths and weaknesses.
No, it doesn't make us look jealous. That's just b.s. aimed to embarrass people into silence.
DeleteI don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out the flaws in Meryl's dancing, there's one person in particular who clearly knows a lot about ballroom and has written some very interesting and useful critiques. My issue is that bitterness often creeps into fans' comments (not only here) and they end up sounding petty and jealous. I get the impression that a lot of VM fans are frustrated by any kind of positive press or public exposure for DW because they're mad at the Sochi results. That's understandable but it does no good to turn it into a competition of who gets the most exposure or perks, a game VM simply aren't going to win right now. Meryl was always going to win DWTS, that was clear as soon as the cast was announced. Her winning a reality show doesn't make her a great dancer or change anything about VM, no matter what people say.
DeleteI apologize for my first post, it wasn't particularly nice. I think I've made my point much better here and I realize most of the petty comments were probably from only one or two people. Still, I don't think they're doing the VM fan community any favours with their comments.
Who on this blog is turning it into a competition over who gets the most exposure or perks?
DeleteThe majority of this discussion has been a critique of Meryl's skating. Meryl's dancing on DWTS provides another angle from which we can deconstruct how she moves, and deconstruct Davis White. The same bastardized mechanics and wonky feet and limited range of motion and inability to straighten her leg surfaced on DWTs. It was illuminating, because we could see that while, at this time Davis and White look nearly equally deficient in terms of blade work, it absolutely is Meryl who is more deficient in movement mechanics/technique/musicality, rhythm and control of her body in space.
As the pettier comparisons are a small part of the discussion here, I wonder why you came here to address a minority part of the discussion, and then said "jealous", which as you know, is the language used by people who can't tolerate criticism.
Also, the VM "community" is pretty disparate and I'm not going to encourage groupthink. There are VM fans who have perspectives about a lot of stuff that I don't share, but, within reason, I don't like imposing discussion guidelines on the blog. I do have some guidelines, one of which is, don't post pretending to be multiple people when it's just you. Don't have conversations with yourself. Don't have a third-party conversation bashing the blog ON the blog, you know, two people (or one poster and an alter) settling down in the comments section to back and forth with each other over how dumb it is here.
DeleteDon't come here just to stir the shit, hijack a discussion, or as a place to settle in and spam the place with your meltdown or frustrations.
Those are pretty much the guidelines. Otherwise, I object to phrases like "VM community', even though I myself use "Meryl Davis fans". This might be a good time to define that as the Meryl Davis fans who engage in the specific behavior the blog disparages.
I used the word jealous because that's how the petty comments appear to me, as people who are jealous of the attention and praise that Meryl is getting. If they simply disagreed with her win and people's comments, there wouldn't be that bitterness.
DeleteI'm not trying to silence anyone and people are of course free to write whatever you'll let them write on your blog. However, I think I'm also allowed to critique what people say. I've been increasingly frustrated with the immature fans who pop up wherever VM discussion appears and who are impossible to ignore. It's those fans that I was really referring to, something that I didn't make sufficiently clear.
"If they simply disagreed with her win and people's comments, there wouldn't be that bitterness."
DeleteI don't see things quite this way.
I know some of us are bothered by the attention because we feel it helps to further perpetuate the myth that DW are superior to VM. With all of this attention comes the declarations about what a great skater and dancer she is. We have talked about one way to hold the sport accountable is for the public to recognize what's going on, and having more people out there who think DW are the epitome of good ice dance isn't taking things in the right direction.
I also think for a lot of skating fans, after years of watching DW being handed "wins" they didn't earn or deserve, it's hard now to see them getting all of the attention for "winning" a medal that not only did they not earn or deserve on the merits of their ice dancing, they shouldn't have even been in Sochi to contend for when you compare them to rest of the US ice dance field. It's not that people (or most people) are being petty and jealous about the attention. It's the fact that the attention is a continuing reminder of the corruption in skating and the damage that had to be done to the "sport" in order to make it happen. I would never expect VM, being from Canada, to get this kind of attention. If DW had legitimately deserved and earned the win with their skating, most would not begrudge the attention. It's the circumstances that leave a bad taste in peoples' mouths.
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Delete2:28PM, in regards to "petty comments" from VM fans, what do you call Meryl fans who made fun of a woman who doesn't have legs? Who compared the "novelty" of her performances to a "dancing bear?" Who whined that Amy had the advantage of having no legs, because she didn't have to deal with the build up of lactic acid in her lower legs, like poor Meryl did? Perhaps you can take a look at the appalling behavior of DW fans before calling out anyone else for making "petty" comments. Perhaps we're "bitter" because we think it's disgusting that people have been mocking someone for their handicap.
Delete"I used the word jealous because that's how the petty comments appear to me, as people who are jealous of the attention and praise that Meryl is getting. If they simply disagreed with her win and people's comments, there wouldn't be that bitterness"
DeleteYeah, but that's you seeing bitterness and jealousy, it's your skew, your filter.
I think Virtue and Moir are so superior that whatever issues VM fans have, jealousy and pettiness isn't one of them. I don't believe there is a single VM fan out there who is "jealous" of Meryl Davis. Based on WHAT? VM fans know the win was corrupt. Frustrated and pissed, yes. That's legitimate. It's not "jealousy."
Tessa gets plenty of attention. Tessa gets plenty of praise. Tessa gets plenty of perks. Tessa did NOT get a gold medal in Sochi that she'd earned, and VM fans are perfectly within their rights to make note of that and explain how she'd earned it and Davis White didn't. Jealousy plays no role. Google defines jealousy as "negative thoughts and
feelings of insecurity, fear, and anxiety". VM fans are certainly not "insecure." when it comes to VM.
Davis and White and their proponents haven't had much problem being petty. They've taken what is Virtue and Moir's and attempted to co-opt it for themselves and then deny that Virtue and Moir ever possessed those attributes in the first place. Virtue and Moir fans are going to call it out.
For example, in the Davis and White universe, Tessa Virtue is fat, large and, dear god in heaven, ungraceful, whle Meryl Davis is a stunning beauty, who could go straight from the ice to the Bolshoi ballet.
While not every VM fan has exercised restraint in response, I think the restraint has been pretty commendable overall, and there's been an effort to take the high road. We will point out that Tessa is fit, gorgeous and graceful, and leagues beyond Meryl as a dancer and skater, without (for the most part), retaliating towards things Meryl can't control.
What exactly are VM fans "jealous" of, that Virtue and Moir don't possess a thousand fold over Davis White, that Virtue and Moir fans don't KNOW they possess a thousand fold over Davis White.
I think the wide ranging commentary about the Emporer's New Clothes syndrome currently elevating Meryl Davis is commentary on the absolute absurdity of what is going on, and an extension of how the same bullshit worked in the run up and aftermath to Sochi. These are things that are naturally of interest to VM fans, as their favorite skaters, who are the best in the world, were robbed in Sochi thanks to this sort of thing.
Thank you OC 8:58.
DeleteExactly. All of it.
isnt it hilarious that everyone talked about the romance and connection between meryl and max as reason for their win? almost a slap in face to VM.
ReplyDeleteomg one of the dumbest comments i encountered during the olympics was something along the lines that tessa and scott dont work hard enough and that they're always so handsy and all over eachother that they become unfocused and the judges dont want to see that.
DeleteMaks certainly did his research before this season started. He lifted everything from the Meryl Davis fan wish list.
Deleteor meryl's wishlist ;)
Deletei hate meryl but she's gorgeous, she's grown into her beauty.
ReplyDeleteAmy vs Meryl - Finals Round 1 comparison
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8epVxxpurwQ
Love this...thanks, Canadablue.
DeleteAmy KILLED the salsa. She killed the tango as well, but that salsa is somthing else.
Just wow! I don't even know how Meryl's salsa could be called a salsa when you put it beside Amy's ..I knew I saw MD lose her balance that week! That salsa was terrible. Her lifts -just weird-her legs are all over the place. And it does really look like she has lead in her boots
DeleteI watched the ice dance competition from 2010 again and I'd go so far to say that DW were even worse in Sochi than they were 4 years ago.
ReplyDeleteIn Vancouver their programs at least tried to give the impression of content. In Sochi their programs looked as empty as they were but in 2010 they hid it much better.
Meryl's toe point is a tiny bit better now but that isn't say much because it honestly couldn't have gotten any worse.
And in POTO Charlie still pretended to care about interpretation before he completely gave up on it.
And how hilarious is it that Meryl's mother recently said how Meryl always wanted to be more artistic ...
How blind do some fans have to be to claim they don't see that Tessa has gained weight? Her tits are huge and she has lost her waist. Baby Moir wants to make its presence known!
ReplyDeletelol pls scott's gained way more weight than she has since the end of the season
Delete5:21, People are defensive about Tessa's weight because of all the rude comments over the years when she's clearly been in amazing shape, I get that. And of course fans don't want to believe that VM are lying to them or that anything written on here could be true.
DeleteStill, try to put all that aside, pretend that Tessa is a stranger you're seeing for the first time, and compare how she looked at the Olympics with how she looks now. Sometimes we only see what we want to see.
906 wow. Thats a mature comment? Or not.....
DeleteDoris P talking BS again...now she's blaming V/M's trouble with their lifts on Scott's "persistent" neck and back problems, and the "salute" at the end didn't sit well with the judges because it implied "give us the gold, play the national anthem move".
ReplyDeleteSeriously, how does this woman come up with this BS?
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?50763-Great-Article-About-Virtue-and-Moir-and-Olympics&p=940998&viewfull=1#post940998
Sometimes I just want to yell at these people---WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!!! I simply cannot believe she calls part of their Olympic program sloppy. What the?!
DeleteEverything Doris posts re VM and DW has an agenda. Who knows if she herself believes half the BS she writes. But she gets these ideas out there, that's all that matters. She acts like she's a paid mouthpiece for DW. At all costs by whatever means, raise up DW and undermine VM - truth doesn't matter. I hope some day it comes back to bite her.
DeleteMarina said in an interview that the era of VM and DW is over and if they want to continue they'd have to reinvent themselves.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe she would say something like this about VM, one of the few teams that always brought something new to the table and was a major reason for her own success.
This woman knows no decency or gratitude.
She's all about SK now, the Shibs will be pushed aside again.
VM reinvented themselves every season. DW don't know the meaning of the word.
DeleteMarina knows that better than anyone but she'll never acknowledge it. She will forever pay lip service to the idea that they were two equal teams. No one should expect Marina to be the one who publicly blows the lid about the great DW hoax of this last quadrennial.
What bothers me the most is that she said they'd have to reinvent themselves if they want to win again. As if there was a team that could even come close to VM's ability. VM could skate the same program for years to shopping mall music in their training clothes and still would be head and shoulders above everybody else.
DeleteMarina lost all of her credibility because she keeps insisting that it's all about performance and " feelings ". Who cares about skating as long as the music is catchy enough ...
She must have a very low opinion about SK's skating skills otherwise she wouldn't dish out such nonsense.
Funny how Marina's changed her tune... After Sochi she really wanted VM and DW to come back and thought they had a lot more to give. She gets a new Russian team and suddenly it's out with the old, in with the new. I've always gotten the impression that Marina cares mostly about herself, it's always about her somehow. First she "made" VM olympic champions in 2010, then she "made" DW champions in 2014 and now it's SK's turn. I know she’s politicking for her new team but it’s telling how quickly she’s willing to essentially dump her Olympic-winning teams.
DeleteAnd 11:12, I agree. VM and DW finished 23 and 18 points clear of BS at the Olympics and we have no idea how the new Russian teams will turn out, not to mention they need time to gel. Even if VM came back as the exact same team they were this year (an unlikely scenario), how could the other teams improve so quickly that by next year they're already just as good or better? Because Marina and the judges are easily bored and need shiny new toys, apparently. Sometimes I wonder why we call ice dance a sport...
9:22, I was not surprised at all she said that about VM. She was the one who put this year's results on VM, saying they had not yet skated their programs well enough to show them off (nevermind GPF). It does shock me that she would say that about DW. I take that to mean DW are retiring for sure (yay!!!). VM have already left Canton so if they continue, it won't be with her... so I knew she wouldn't have anything kind to say about them. She's all about S/Z and their blue eyes. I wonder if she'll have them skate to Umbrellas or even Mahler.. or will she go deeper into the G/G playbook... Vocalise, perhaps, or Moonlight Sonata?
DeleteMarina will say and do everything as long as it grants her attention and a high paycheck.
DeleteI think she has reached her peak as a choreographer some time ago and was just lucky to have a great team like VM ( that mostly worked with choreographers from outside ) and a team in DW that was protected by politics. In all these years she couldn't even come up with something original for the Shibs ( and unlike DW they would be capable of handling a more difficult choreo ).
The one who needs to reinvent herself is Marina.
VM reinvented themselves every season. Now Marina is saying "they'll have to do it again over the next quad" and people are pissed at her for saying it?
DeleteI swear, there is nothing she says that people won't throw a fucking fit about.
"Funny how Marina's changed her tune... After Sochi she really wanted VM and DW to come back and thought they had a lot more to give. She gets a new Russian team and suddenly it's out with the old, in with the new. I've always gotten the impression that Marina cares mostly about herself, it's always about her somehow."
DeleteOr she already knows V/M and D/W aren't coming back to competition (no matter how much they're hedging publicly) and is moving on because it's her job to do so. What do you want her to do? Not talk about the teams who *are* committed to her going forward?
Every season, V/M would talk about wanting to reinvent themselves and do something different. Now Zoueva says "if they stay in, they'll have to keep doing that" and the response is a predictable OUTRAGE! HOW DARE SHE?!?!?!?
Seriously?
I think there is a difference between VM doing it and *having* to do it. It's clearly not a requirement to win. DW won with year old stuff. IMO, VM are to be commended for reinventing themselves season after season, which demonstrates their love the the sport and the process of creating. But under the rulebook, I don't think they *have* to do it to win. They obviously need to skate to the selected rhythms well, phrase choreography to the music, etc, but "reinventing" seems like more to me.
DeleteI agree with 11:12 - VM's skating skills and elements are so far ahead of everyone else's that they could justifiably win for a long time without doing anything drastically different. They could be boring, yet still deserve to win - sort of like a clean Chan is for many people.
What I find objectionable about Marina's comment is how it lumps DW and VM together, as if they were equally skilled and needed to do the same sort of things in order to succeed. Since VM are superior to DW, it gives the impression of lifting DW and/or denying VM's skills and always ends up insulting to VM, IMO. No, DW do not have to reinvent themselves, they never did; VM did it, and weren't credited for it, as is typical. I don't expect Marina to bash DW publicly, but naturally, as a VM fan, these sorts of comparisons rankle. Because the truth is the rulebook or concepts outside the rulebook like "reinvention" have never applied to DW.
4:41 AM i doubt they can skate to mahler with the new (well its not new anymore) music rule. maybe she'll give them farrucas for the sd :/
Delete"No, DW do not have to reinvent themselves, they never did; VM did it, and weren't credited for it, as is typical. I don't expect Marina to bash DW publicly, but naturally, as a VM fan, these sorts of comparisons rankle. Because the truth is the rulebook or concepts outside the rulebook like "reinvention" have never applied to DW."
DeleteI completely agree with this. I don't expect Zoueva to bash DW because to do that would be disastrous for her as a coach, therefore I don't see the point in being insulted by her comments.
My anger is reserved for the people who have created/maintain the system that allows for teams to win due to politics/corruption. That's not the skaters and it's not the coaches. It's the ISU.
"What do you want her to do? Not talk about the teams who *are* committed to her going forward?"
DeleteOf course not, but you can promote your new team without putting down your old teams. She could have said that VM and DW still haven't decided if they want to continue but that she's excited to work with the great teams that she has right now. There was no need to declare their era as over, as if she's the one who decides these things, as if that's how a real sport works: "OK, we know you were miles ahead of these other teams last season but it's a new quad now so you're not going to dominate anymore if you come back." WTH? Marina has always been unprofessional in her comments and these latest ones are part of a general pattern with her that has always bugged me. It's not about VM or DW (and I can understand that she'd be mad at VM) but about professionalism and respect for all her current and past students, whoever they may be.
"OK, we know you were miles ahead of these other teams last season but it's a new quad now so you're not going to dominate anymore if you come back."
DeleteThat is not what she said.
Exactly, 2:02. I feel the same way as Skate Canada saying stuff like now that VM are gone, it can be WP's turn for the podium. It's perpetuating the bullshit of the sport.
Delete2:36 - It's the logical implication of what she said. She said the VM-DW era is over and that both teams are still thinking about coming back. What other conclusion are we supposed to make? I'm genuinely curious.
DeleteNina Mozer coaches both Volosozhar Trankov (Olympic champions) and Stolbova Klimov (silver) along with multiple senior and junior pairs looking to make an impact (20 in all). Somehow she manages to talk about her excitement over her new young pairs without condemning VT to the scrap heap.
Deletehttp://www.figureskating-online.com/nina-mozer.html
Q: Tania and Maxim have won everything you can win in the sport. How are you now motivating your athletes?
A: It happened that the guys have motivated me. When I first heard from them that they want to continue their career after Sochi I thought, they are joking. But it was not a joke. After Worlds in Japan they clearly said, ‘yes’. You are asking what motivates them? They just aren’t done yet. At the one hand we somehow are tired, but on the other hand, there were so many good things, there was so much love. Everybody loves this pair, at least the people who are working with Taniuscha and Maxim. I think that they didn’t feel anything like that before. They didn’t know and they didn’t believe that within the group there could be such honest and warm feelings. Of course, there were also difficult times when everybody was exhausted and we just wanted the Olympic Games to be over quickly. But everything ended, the emotions calmed down, the bad things went away and as it turns out there is not enough positive adrenaline. And you should not forget that success is always motivating. I for example really like it when the Russian anthem is played and our flag is raised. I am always saying that our anthem is my favorite music.
@2:36, the "logical implication?" No, a logical implication is "she's saying that if either team wants to come back, they should (or to keep reinventing) themselves." That's the logical implication, not that she's saying "even if you do come back, you won't dominate anymore!"
DeleteI think the underlying argument she's putting forth is that even if both teams stay in, it's not always going to be the two team race it's been over the past quad. That "era" is over. I'm not sure she's using the word "era" (or it's translated by Google) in the way some people are taking it. I think she just means it as a physical number of years. A quad.
The rest of what she says has to do with the athletes themselves. Can they mentally find a way to keep going for another four years? I have no idea why the comment is considered controversial on its face. I think people want to read something into that is insulting to V/M, but all she's doing is saying "if either team wants to come back, they'll have to dig deep and decide if they have it in them to keep challenging themselves."
"I think the underlying argument she's putting forth is that even if both teams stay in, it's not always going to be the two team race it's been over the past quad. That "era" is over."
DeleteHow is that different from "if you come back, you won't dominate anymore"?
And how does she know that "era" is over? That's my point, she doesn't know how VM and DW's skating will develop, she doesn't know how the other teams will develop or how the judges will react, she can't predict the future. And there was no "maybe" in there, she stated it flat out. I absolutely expect a rival coach to say something like this but to talk down your own team's chances, in public, indicates to me that Marina has moved on. Do you see Nina Mozer telling journalists how VT will no longer dominate in this next quad? Of course not. Even if she believes it will happen, that's the exact opposite of promoting your team.
Considering how long Marina's been in the figure skating world, I refuse to believe she's so naive that she doesn't realize all the little PR blunders she's making in the media. The last few years they've always been related to VM, now DW are included as well (and no, VM being terrible at PR themselves isn't an excuse). It doesn't mean she doesn't wish these teams well, of course, but I suspect the carelessness is a sign that the team(s) are no longer her top priority. If I were VM or DW and wanted to come back, I'd be looking for a new coach.
"The rest of what she says has to do with the athletes themselves. Can they mentally find a way to keep going for another four years?"
Considering what she says in the first two sentences, I can see how some would take the reference to reinventing themselves as meaning that it's a necessary prerequisite to remaining competitive. I don't really see it that way though.
'How is that different from "if you come back, you won't dominate anymore"?'
DeleteWhy is it assumed she's saying they won't dominate AT ALL, just that they won't be the only two teams who are dominating?
My guess is, Marina Zoueva knows very well both teams are retiring and isn't wasting her time leading the public to believe they might come back. If the teams do change their minds and want to come back in the future, she says that will require them to find a way to keep challenging themselves. I don't see it as any kind of PR blunder, nor do I find her words to be in any way insulting to V/M or D/W.
"Why is it assumed she's saying they won't dominate AT ALL, just that they won't be the only two teams who are dominating?"
DeleteWell, that's what I meant, that the two teams wouldn't be dominating the field, that there would be more teams in the mix. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
'I don't see it as any kind of PR blunder, nor do I find her words to be in any way insulting to V/M or D/W.'
So you think that, politically, it's a good idea to downplay the future results of your team before they've even announced a comeback? And even if you think they won't come back, there's always a chance they'll change their minds, just look at VT.
I don't think Marina's comments are insulting but they do indicate that she's moved on and they wouldn't inspire confidence in me if I were in VM or DW's shoes. I'd say the same thing about SC, actually; their pre-worlds press release made it clear that they had moved on and, if VM were to return, I'm not sure how much support they would get from their federation. I understand not wanting to sit around for a comeback that may never happen but keeping a door open doesn't cost anything and neither SC nor Marina come across as very welcoming.
The ice dance world isn't used to Olympic winners coming back, the default is to move aside and that's what's expected of the skaters, it seems. Now that teams are winning at a much earlier age than they used to, they're also retiring much earlier and we never get to see them in their prime. It might be time to revisit the stupid "turn" thing that makes a mockery of the sport and encourage top skaters to actually stay in, just maybe?
"So you think that, politically, it's a good idea to downplay the future results of your team before they've even announced a comeback? And even if you think they won't come back, there's always a chance they'll change their minds, just look at VT."
DeleteHow are her comments downplaying any future results? It reads to me like she's saying "the quad where these two teams were always the two on top is now over. To stay on top is never easy and to do so, teams have to adjust/reinvent/challenge themselves" (however her words actually translate). At no point is she saying or indicating "they won't be able to do those things to stay on top and continue winning."
"I don't think Marina's comments are insulting but they do indicate that she's moved on and they wouldn't inspire confidence in me if I were in VM or DW's shoes."
Her comments don't read to me like she's "moved on" in the sense of "I'm done with them, they should step aside and give someone else their turn." The interview wasn't about D/W or V/M, it's about Sinitsina and Katsalapov. Of course she's going to talk mainly about them. She's saying "let me tell you about this team (and the other one committed to skating next season). Here's why I'm excited about what they can do," etc., etc.
I don't know what "wouldn't inspire confidence in me" even means. Confidence about what? Returning to competition with her as a coach in the future? You think if they called her up in a year and said "we'd like to come back and have you coach us again," she'd say "nope, sorry. Don't want you, I've moved on" or something? What is it you want Marina to say? She can't sit around all day and talk about two teams who have told the public they don't know what their future plans are but for sure they won't be back this next season. If they come back and she coaches them in the future, she'd no doubt talk more about them. But why should she spend a lot of time talking about them now? What is there to talk about, exactly? Only what those teams have done in the past, which is certainly worth continued conversation. But that's not what this interview was about. It was about her and the teams publicly committed to competing this season.
"It might be time to revisit the stupid "turn" thing that makes a mockery of the sport and encourage top skaters to actually stay in, just maybe?"
Yes, but I don't think her use of the word "era" necessarily indicates that's what she was saying.
"So you think that, politically, it's a good idea to downplay the future results of your team before they've even announced a comeback? And even if you think they won't come back, there's always a chance they'll change their minds, just look at VT."
Delete(and)
"The ice dance world isn't used to Olympic winners coming back, the default is to move aside and that's what's expected of the skaters, it seems. Now that teams are winning at a much earlier age than they used to, they're also retiring much earlier and we never get to see them in their prime. It might be time to revisit the stupid "turn" thing that makes a mockery of the sport and encourage top skaters to actually stay in, just maybe?"
^^^
Isn't all of this a good argument against Marina Zoueva's comments needing to mean a damn thing? If the ice dance world being so political makes a mockery of the sport (and it very much does), than I don't understand why I or anyone else should be upset with what Zoueva said. Either politics mattering is acceptable, or it's not.
I don't have an opinion right now on Marina Zoueva - but she's been part of the game for a very long time and at this point is looking out for her best interest...who knows if we will ever know the truth with what happened with Sphilband etc...
ReplyDeleteIt appears that per Kaitlyn Lawes twitter - she has announced that she will be on vacation during the month of June...I'm guessing that after the Olympic parade in Calgary next week...we will see Tessa hanging out with her gfs and Scott somewhere else...which is fine..
And props to Dylan Moscovitch - after being dumped..it appears that he is enjoying himself at the AGM (Skate Canada)...nothing personal against KMT...but it can't be easy for the guy to not be disappointed in knowing that he had a great partnership that could have meant a shot at a couple of World medals...
The anger towards Marina's "re-inventing" quote is that it, once again casts VM and DW as equals. This statement assumes that VM's exquisite programs are on an equal footing to DW who didn't demonstrate a creative bone in their bodies, save for a lift which took 3 years to learn.
ReplyDeleteIs this the interview you're talking about?
Deletehttps://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A//fsrussia.ru/news/1239_marina-zueva-nikita-stal-vyglyadet-zrelym-muzhchinoj-ryadom-s-viktoriej/
Because if so, claiming her quote is saying VM and DW were equals with equally creative programs is a HUGE REACH. All I'm reading from that quote is she's saying that over the last quad, both teams were the ones leading the sport, which is true. Every major competition was won by one of the two teams, with the other coming in second. Whether you think the results were fair doesn't change that those were the results. She says absolutely nothing about creativity, you're adding that in there yourself.
This was just posted on FSU and I'm including it here because I don't understand this kind of logic. It completely falls in on itself:
Delete"I heard Marina said that if VM or DW come back to competition, they need to reinvent themselves. As if VM hven't been doing that this past quad Was she asleep when she gave them Carmen? She needs to stop Taking VM for granted if VM do continue I hope their 'reinvention' does not involve her because she held them back."
Here's how the logic immediately falls in on itself and makes no sense: if Zoueva was helping them reinvent themselves, then she was doing the job this person thinks she should have done, yes? If she wasn't helping them reinvent themselves, but VM were doing it anyway, then Zoueva couldn't have been holding them back.
I guess outrage is always more fun when it's illogical?
Nobody here has argued this so I don't see how it's relevant to include it. Are you going to search the Internet to find weak arguments to prove your point? One person making a weak argument doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't like Marina's comments is wrong and illogical.
DeleteI wasn't aware that it's only okay to come over here and post the weak points made by D/W fans. You know, the ones that are pointed out and reposted here almost weekly in an effort to show how they make no sense and are being used to back false assessments. Didn't realize V/M's fans (of which I am one) are immune from that kind of action.
DeleteIt's OC's blog, so whatever she thinks is ok is ok. Personally I find the calling out of DW's supporters relevant because it demonstrates how flimsy the arguments for their wins are, and it's fascinating to deconstruct how it could be that they could ride that to an Olympic gold medal with nothing real in their skating supporting it, and even to see how the Chinese judge and Australian judge-in-training use similar arguments. I know that I would not care if DW fans wanted to say "they gave 100%" and "they are exciting" and "I just like them more" but it's a little scary that actual real-world people in the skating media and even judges are saying stuff like that and that was used to effect their wins.
DeleteThe dragging of some VM fan's comment from another board to show that their argument with which you disagree is illogical comes off as petty and unnecessary to me, but YMMV. You're free to do it, and others are free to comment on your post, as long as nothing is said that goes beyond OC's general guidelines.
I find the constant dragging of DW fan comments from another board to be kind of pointless as well, TBH. Instead of complaining on here, why not make an account and argue your point directly? You're preaching to the choir and changing nobody's opinion.
Delete4:48pm, the purpose of the comments section is to have a discussion (or leave comments), not to change someone's opinion. I really think a whole lot of narcissism drives those who comment on various forums, because too many people think it's all about them. I've heard from blog comments that think the entire blog is dedicated to convincing them personally.
DeleteI have my convictions, but I'm still curious about how other people think; if there's logic, a set of values, a perspective that works, even if I don't agree with it. When it comes to DW and how they win, I haven't found anything that works.
Exactly what is wrong with talking about it here, and what is the benefit of creating one's own account to talk about it there? In the first place, there are skating blogs that already implicitly do that. In the second place, it makes no sense to withdraw from an ongoing conversation and start a lonely outpost to conduct it. I think the reason DW fan remarks are relevant is because they reflect, if not actually drive, the scoring for DW that led to their undeserved win in Sochi, and it reflects the bullshit way fans of this sport are handled by those who control the sport. If it weren't the perspective that's controlling ice dance, it wouldn't be as relevant. As it is, it's definitely relevant. If skating can't justify DW's win, then fans - and even the sport - decide that skating should be devalued and stuff that happens off the ice should drive the outcome.
Wow, this is begining to sound like Prancer's teaching lessons way back in the FSU VM vs DW thread.
ReplyDeleteRelentless and a bit desperate.
Sinitsina/Katsalapov's first exhibition - I assume choreo by Marina
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9gzL72lOLw&feature=youtu.be
yeah not impressed
DeleteI'd say it's Marina who needs to reinvent herself. The VM-lite thing isn't doing SK any favors. It's hard to make that style work unless you can get effortless push of blade and have impeccable unison like VM and GG. That style exposes you. And I don't think she can have SK running on toe picks and doing quick movements; they're too tall.
DeleteIt'll be interesting to see if Marina is all talk about how pretty they are and how well-mannered or if she can really improve their technique and develop their style.
Part 2 - Freestyle and Fusion plus some extras
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/D_H3-_7s47s
Looks like M&M got the 24-hour Rehearse Your Old Program challenge. The Fusion dance scoring might have been the most ridiculous thing all season.