This post started out as speculation in a comment section but then I thought - why not throw it out there.
The comment section observed that Skate Canada has consistently and persistently explained why Patrick Chan deserves to win per the ISU rulebook. Skate Canada has spelled out that no other man has Patrick's combination of skating skills and quad jumps that conform precisely to the CoP criteria, and that's just life. The other guys don't have this this and that.
We're not left to think "skating skills" is some type of prettiness or swoony dreaminess - it's a complex set of skills and Patrick's capabilities are in another realm in this way, that way and the other way. CoP has to give him the points - he's racking them up according to CoP's own system almost every instant he's on the ice.
But we hear nothing from Skate Canada about why Virtue and Moir, if CoP is to be a legitimate judging system, also are just about unbeatable no matter what the "other teams" bring to the playing field. There's nobody else who does this, that and this. So suck it up. (I always feel that slight complacent toolish edge from Skate Canada whenever they "explain" something, but notwithstanding, I agree.)
But then I remembered the past two Canadian championships, and thought - what if Skate Canada is hoping to use DW tactics to make winners of GP? That would explain a LOT. It would explain why Skate Canada doesn't do for Virtue Moir what it does for Patrick Chan. Slipchuk repeatedly lays out the case for Chan in CoP-centric language.
The case for Virtue and Moir is beyond easy to spell out - for Skate Canada to make the case in CoP-centric language, skating skills language, bladework language.
Don't even say 'D&W'. Just say "other teams" or "no other team can" and then hit the bullet points and connect it to the rules.
But if they were hoping to get G&P scored with D&W glasses, they won't do that. They'll not only let VM swing, they'll pull the chair out, like they did 2 Canadians in a row.
It seems to me the agenda of the past two Canadians was to strip points from VM - just like the ISU judges are apt to do, and then pile on the points for G&P to create the impression G&P weren't that far off from championship form. It wouldn't serve SC's agenda to remind us what good ice dancing actually looks like, specifically, to break down what high level skills require. Something has to explain why they put VM under a microscope or pretended to, but let Piper practically fall down in the midline without impacting the points.
This DW exercise is becoming more and more horrifying. I started out thinking about the overscoring they've been getting since 2009-2010. And this season it reached a tipping point. I'd never noticed they did only two twizzles until it came up on Aunt Joyce's blog and he said the two twizzles they do are level 4 so they don't have to do three sets. I parked that info in the back of my head to look at later - I was curious what elevated the level of those twizzles. There's been a bunch of stuff about DW I'd meant to look at more closely, and the purpose of this project when it started was to demonstrate that VM were clearly the stronger team, with better speed and power, more blade run, better partnering and cleaner elements, and that the stuff people assumed DW had over them was accomplished with a lot of theatricality instead of actual speed and power.
BUT. I never expected to find what I'm actually finding when the programs are deconstructed. FYI - deconstructed just means - look at what they are actually doing, and compare it to what they're awarded for doing.
What we have here might be the first ice dance world champions who neither dance nor figure skate.
I've got a dance spin gif from Die Fleudermaus that I'm trying to troubleshoot before I upload it. It's in slow mo and focuses on something in the dance spin entry. Mother of God.
"It seems to me the agenda of the past two Canadians was to strip points from VM - just like the ISU judges are apt to do, and then pile on the points for G&P to create the impression G&P weren't that far off from championship form."
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly what happened the last two Canadians as far as the scores for VM and GP. I don't see how it is not a specific agenda. The judging was flagrantly pushing GP as close as possible to VM while pulling VM down.
Twice in a row? Not a coincidence.
When you put this together with the fawning Skate Canada did over GP from the moment they became a team, no matter the actual skills of the team - oh yeah, "agenda" is written all over it.
The G&P spin overreached from the day they skated together in public. Select fans on fsu showed up and tried way too hard. Immediately the sell was on so as to skirt the quality of their figure skating and to emphasize non-quantifiable attributes.
DeleteThe question is why? Figure skating is a sport WITH explicitly quantifiable attributes. CoP was created to quantify the scoring system.
There were buzz words about G&P that immediately raised a flag. "Refreshing" was the first. Refreshing implicitly compares. Refreshing compared to WHAT, or, more specifically, WHO? WHAT is refreshing about them? Who was stale?
Is crappy, sloppy, trick-based, hard-sell figure skating refreshing compared to skaters with good technique? Is bad technique just another style option now?
The overall push this season absolutely seems intent on making the case that bad technique is just another way to skate; it's just as valid as good technique.
Which - fucking insane, BUT - the ISU rulebook defines and then requires good technique to get the points. There's no play in there. The ISU itself decided to quantify the way you accumulate points in this "sport".
So it's a little odd to continually get completely non-skating sell for G&P, who are also getting credit for things they're not doing. (Lynn Rutherford apparently has praised their "blazing THREE part twizzle sequence". What was the third part? Personality? This is figure skating media. This woman has her "expertise" on her freaking cv.)
It's a lot clearer now why Tanith called out and praised Piper Gilles for smiling in the Kiss'nCry. G&P are baby DW. They do the type of skating that Tanith wants to legitimize, and since DW do that kind of hustle better, Tanith has every incentive to promote their mini-mes. Better compare DW to GP (where they'll come out ahead when evaluated on a similar basis) - thatn to VM.
This past season - wins. This past season is the most corrupt EVER. What happens on the ice flagrantly does not matter. The skate happens, the score comes in per the agenda, and the "skating media" eager for re-tweets, access, links, thumbs ups, etc. steamrolls the results. That's the new template. The skating is irrelevant. It's a judge/media mafia type situation. The rulebook is there but since everyone in the sport is confident nobody reads it, what does it matter?
And yes, of course it happening to VM at Canadians twice in a row is no coincidence. It was ALL about stripping their points down to get them closer to the inflated scores scheduled to be doled out to Gilles Poirier.
Oh, I meant to add that the spin for G&P aggressively set out to have it both ways. They deserve those high scores - they're awesome.
DeleteBut hey, don't scrutinize! They're a new team - they'll improve.
See what they did there?
That's even worse than the rapid 180 from "Piper is bringing out Paul's ... ahem ... qualities." To "Piper is bringing out Paul's fun qualities."
I'll say. I look forward to next season and more bragging from the two of them about how they have personality and their teammates don't, and how much fucking fun they are. This is the stuff that gets you pcs, now we know.
What bugs is the people that "admit" Piper is worse than Paul, but explain it away as 'the judges are marking up based on Paul's skating skills. They're giving her room to get there."
DeleteBecause... that's totally ok.
Actually it's a team so you're only as strong as your weakest link in moves that you both are doing. The midline should be scored at Piper's level of competence and so should every element. It's like pairs. All those times Jessica Dube splatted the salchow and Bryce landed it perfectly, the team only got the points for what Jessica did - if any points (usually for rotating it if she rotated before splatting). You don't score up to the stronger partner. We can see where that would lead. The weaker partner wouldn't have to do shit. The weaker partner could placehold every move.
DeleteExactly. And this is exactly what side-by-side twizzles and no-touch step sequences were supposed to address in ice dancing. This is why CoP makes multiple references to BOTH partners having correct technique in order to get high levels/positive grades of execution, and references balanced workload between partners and balanced skill levels multiple times in the program components.
DeleteThe ISU is all about the appearance of fair judging so that they can get away with not judging fairly. Write a bunch of bullshit criteria, score however you want, and then say "there's a code of points in place. Everything is elementized and they are marked only for what they do on the ice. If they received the points, it must have been difficult and done well."
So you get Davis White, two time World Champions, even though this very judging system was supposed to avoid champions like "Twofeetzio" Margaglio and "Gallopin Galit" Chait.
"This past season - wins. This past season is the most corrupt EVER. What happens on the ice flagrantly does not matter. The skate happens, the score comes in per the agenda, and the "skating media" eager for re-tweets, access, links, thumbs ups, etc. steamrolls the results. That's the new template. The skating is irrelevant. It's a judge/media mafia type situation. The rulebook is there but since everyone in the sport is confident nobody reads it, what does it matter?"
DeleteThis.
The skating doesn't matter. The rulebook doesn't matter.
The biggest scandal ever in this sport is in progress and has been for several seasons now, going back to 09-10, and no one is saying a damned thing. Well, no one except Zhulin who managed to speak volumes in very few words.
Given that what's actually happening in the field of play doesn't matter, you can't call ice dance a sport. If it's not a sport, then why the hell is it in the Olympics?
I've previously referred to it as a "The Truman Show" type scenario, but I think you nailed it calling what's going on a judging/media mafia situation.
I didn't care much for them when I first saw them at 4CC, but then when Tracey Wilson compared them to DW ("they have a wild style, kind of like DW"), I was totally turned off.
ReplyDeleteSo now that they bombed at Worlds, will SC continue to throw their weight behind them? VM not only have a chance to defend their OGM, something that has never been done (not to my knowledge), and if WP can up their difficulty, they could make a run for the bronze medal in Sochi. Why would SC not get behind that????
Defending an OGM has been done once before in ice dance (Grishuk & Platov). In 2008, Platov suggested that VM could be the first since them to accomplish that.
DeleteI would think being the first North Americans to do that would be a bigger deal than trying to hustle GP to 17th place, but what do I know?
Oh! Maybe SC got confused and thought Piper Gilles was Pasha Grishuk. Same initials and all.
do you have the source where platov said that?
Deletehttp://platov-e-style.ru/pressa-2000-2010/1/31/&usg=ALkJrhhcdqYiD7T7oSYAgpQg9Xvt2umDfA#show1_31
Deletegoogle trans:
- In your opinion, does anyone in the near future can repeat your achievement with Oksana - two gold medals in ice dancing at the Olympics?
- Maybe. There are interesting young couples. For example, Canadians Tessa Virtue - Scott Moir. How they went from junior to master - just in sixth place - it's hard! Moir, in my opinion, a talent, a finding unique. He has the gift of making every move beautifully. Then the coach did not need to invent anything - everything has already been done by nature. It is only necessary not to spoil ... Do you know how to determine whether a couple will move? If it begins with the adult world championship 20th place, its ceiling - 6th place by the end of a career, at best, come to three. And if the couple starts immediately with a 6 th place, it is clear that it has the potential and talent. And obviously, it will go away.
March 18, 2008
"So now that they bombed at Worlds, will SC continue to throw their weight behind them? VM not only have a chance to defend their OGM, something that has never been done (not to my knowledge), and if WP can up their difficulty, they could make a run for the bronze medal in Sochi. Why would SC not get behind that????"
DeleteWhy did Skate Canada throw their weight behind Gilles & Poirier in the first place? It's not like in anyone's fantasy they had a chance to podium at Worlds, much less the Olympics. Something else is going on here behind the corrupt scenes of Skate Canada, and whatever that something is I betcha it's still in play next season. It's not like the SC leadership will suddenly grow some integrity nor some competence.
wow anon that interview was from march 18 2008? wow thats olddd. he was spot on with his prediction of their win in 2010 lets hope he is correct with his prediction that they will be the second ice dance couple to win back 2 back gold
DeleteGilles-Poirer are being shoved so hard because they're Debbi's ticket to the spotlight.
DeleteI always wouldn't be surprised of the Gilles family were providing financial or other perks for SC.
Anon 4:31
DeleteI agree with you, but the question remains - exactly how does Debbi get the judges to go along with something she wants, screw the reality on the ice? And this is where the blogger hit it on the money, that this is more like a mafia.
I'm anon 3:09pm...meant to say no Canadian figure skater(s) have ever defended their Olympic title.
DeleteI hope she doesn't get Canadian citizenship in time to compete in Sochi. I'm guessing that's what all the SC ass-kissing and media-whoring is about.
ReplyDeleteJust saw some footage of Alexandra Paul and Paul Islam...they are soooooo much better than GP could ever hope to be. Just need the right programs next year and blow them out of the water.
Paul & Islam had the right programs last year. They skated a beautiful short last year and if it were scored appropriately (i.e. ahead of G&P's short) they'd have made the podium despite the fall in the long program.
DeleteBut that was never ever going to happen. They've grown their skating skills; that sustained, running edge. They use their skating to transition. Their speed improved a LOT but because their knees are soft and their blades are quiet, how fast can they be? If you're noisy, you must be fast. G&P must be fast. Shit, they sure do scratch the ice super loudly - that must mean fast - like when the throttle opens and the engine roars. Doesn't skating work that way?
What the Gilles family is doing for the constant p.r., perks, favors (like SC setting up G&P to skate twice in the TEB gala) is definitely a good question. Wouldn't it be gross if it were a bunch of cheap perks and gifts. Would Debbi go for low rent kick backs?
Skate Canada leadership:
When the CEO left this past year, the SC president was all - eh, we don't need a CEO. Carry on directors!
And now it turns out the president is leaving which we all know means he hasn't been minding the store - he been checking his parachute and making sure he'll land on his target.
Who is in charge?
"Who is in charge?"
DeleteDebbi? The SC Director who oversaw that OTT exhibit of getting Jessica Dube to Scott Moir after the Olympic ice-dance medal ceremony for a public display of affection? There was Debbi, great big self-indulgent smile at her success. Gross. IMO that little bit of stagecrafting should never be allowed to be forgotten. It's such a visible demonstration of what this woman is all about, and it ain't "minding the store."
More recently, the OTT toadying to Gilles-Poirier is more of the same mind-blowing idiocy.
Debbi has been getting away with stuff like this for a long time and I don't see that anyone connected to SC is interested in putting a stop to her little "projects."
If Skate Canada is so bizarrely invested in Gilles & Poirier then they might see it as a positive if DW win in Sochi. That will ratify the DW style and the judges will have a harder time - they probably think - not rewarding G&P in the style of DW.
DeleteThat would also explain what was done to Scott and Tessa the past two Canadians. Freaking humiliating, if their skating weren't so beyond politics. It's one thing to stick the screws in Scott and Tessa, it's another to roll out the red carpet in the protocols for the likes of G&P in the same competition.
Look how quiet the SC usual suspects were after Worlds. All hastening to agree with the result. DW get 77 fucking points what - 9 teams before the last team and nobody utters a peep on the Skate Canada end?
Something smelled then - the smell of fake. The smell of deal - I don't mean straight up deal, but you know what I mean. The smell of something people aren't saying and don't want to talk about but are going along with it. It's creepy.
How though, would a 'director of business development' end up running Skate Canada by default? Who signs her fucking checks?