Chock Bates chat
They describe two of the requirements in ice dance (other than, you know, skating skills):
"You must have a beat, in both programs, that is one of the many rules."
So when it comes to Papadakis Cizeron, is the rule that the music have a beat, and it doesn't matter if they, the skaters, do?
And
"You have to have a change of rhythm, change of mood."
Okey doke. Obviously, an exception has been made for PC, this record-scoring free dance team.
My favorite comment:
"Picking music is definitely the most challenging process. You want to pick something that will stand out, and be different. Also, be different for you. You don't want to keep doing the same style of dance every year." Setting aside that Chock Bates themselves only really changed it up this year, Davis White and Papadakis Cizeron beg to differ.
Let's look at 2014:
Of note, the supposedly sublime Cizeron wobbles like a son of a bitch when he attempts any type of one-foot when lifting Papadakis. Even on a flat. Oh I know, he is the god of skating skills, as long as he's on a flat. And even then it's iffy.
Notice how much skating is in this 2014 program. It's a lot of skating. They both keep their blades on the ice for extended periods of time, criss-crossing that rink. They finished in 13th place. There's a reason.
Been reading in the previous post's comment section that PC fans point to this program as evidence they can be versatile. Come on people, get a grip. The reason they don't DO programs such as this anymore is they don't want to end up in 13th place, or, more to the point, have skating fans think they should. Skating fans don't notice when a team two-foots throughout a program, does things one at a time, doesn't sustain, and performs dumbed down elements. As long as it looks smooth. Skating fans do notice when things are awkward and wobbly.
Their skating skills are the same as they were in 2014. Their programs changed, and the rules altered to help them out, so as not to expose them. They're fake.
Finally, my favorite program from when Virtue and Moir were juniors:
How many podium contending senior teams could do that today
LMAO at the comments on P/C's video saying they're the only ice dancers in the world who could pull off "edgy". It's right up there with "they're so innovative". As if ice dance teams decades ago weren't already doing edgy and innovative stuff. Their ubers have no sense of history.
ReplyDeleteThey just parrot what other ubers say on other forums. There was a comment on PC's youtube that was a direct lift from a comment on fsuniverse. Don't know if it was the same person just in love with their own brilliance, but it would be typical if it weren't.
DeleteI do enjoy the poster zilam, who is on every youtube calling out what PC are actually doing and not doing.
I think it's weird how this program is BETTER than their current program. the lifts are better. the spinning is better. but their limitations are there. she cant hold herself up. she's not strong. but theyre fast. and have good lines so they were able to fool morons.
DeleteHow nice of an American-based skating outlet/site to mention the Canadian judge while overlooking Sharon Rodgers' judging history.
ReplyDeleteEven nicer is Lynn's whining about how unfair the judging was to P/C...who got higher PCS and GOE than V/M in that free dance even without a French judge...yes. What a pity it was.
DeleteNever mind that assuming P/C deserve EVEN HIGHER marks than they received (or V/M deserved lower) is kind of begging the question. It's a given now that P/C are the greatest talent in ice dance history I guess!!
They can whine all they like, but if they pursue this avenue, the Canadians *just* might clap back about Didier and various other judges, including the French judge *and* Sharon Rodgers. Do your own housecleaning first, Ms. Rutherford.
DeleteThey're not gonna get far with their bellyaching with the general public, which has a short attention span and has already moved on from the Olympics. Also, dodgy scoring in figure skating? How shocking! *Roll eyes* Finally, V/M put down 2 practically perfect and impressive skates and went viral with their FD (and general V/M-ness). The French hardly registered at all with their programs, save for the SD, and that's because of the wardrobe malfunction.
As if low-balling PC is somehow wrong. The scores given by the Canadian judge were still too high for PC, it's just that the scores from other judges were even more ludicrous.
DeleteI would really love it if the Shibs competed in and won, worlds, but it's the same with them as it is with VM. They have to be absolutely perfect. There's a lot of leeway given PC, especially in twizzles, unison, depth of edge, body angles, skating close together.
Until Lynn Rutherford drops her bullshit about "I don't know anything about technique" she can keep her "buts" to herself. She is no better than a fan, pointing to something on paper to make a point about possible sketchy judging. Can you look at what's on the ice, Lynn? No. And she runs if anyone wonders why she's written about it for years without bothering to give herself a rudimentary education. Skating isn't particle physics. Anyone can go to youtube and break down what a step is supposed to look like, what a ballroom hold is supposed to look like, and become a reasonably informed viewer. She hasn't bothered.
DeleteI can never shake the memory of the time she posted on FSU that she couldn't enjoy a particularly talent-stacked season of So You Think You Can Dance because the men weren't hot enough.
DeleteMy favourite bitching right now on FSU is how V/M have a larger fan base and how unfair it is for P/C because skating isn’t as popular in France. Funny enough, a few months ago, the P/C ubers were floating about their FD getting over a million views on YouTube. What happened to the million clickers during the Olympics? Didn’t NBC come to Montreal to film a fluff piece on them in the anticipation of the fix coming to fruition? Wasn’t NBC tasked with spreading the gospel of P/C to the North American sheep?
DeleteBut then they got too full of themselves. They showed their “I’m in this for myself mentality” and abandoned the team event and chose to stay in Montreal and get themselves ready. Meanwhile, V/M look d like saints, skating all four portions “for their country, and for Patrick.”
Despite what the ISU believe, the public isn’t blind and social media isn afraid to call a spade a spade. V/M won the IE in the first week of the Olympics and there was nothing Didier and his cronies could do to stop the hype.
Larger fanbase? Do they mean worldwide? Of course V/M has Canada firmly behind them, but if this is about the Moulin Rouge program being more warmly received by the crowd at the Olympic rink, that has more to do with V/M's association with Yuna and the popularity of MR itself. Also, V/M's performance style might be more in line with Korean public's taste compared to P/C's. If the Olympics were held in Europe, I imagine the French's FD would have had better reception.
DeleteDidier couldn't have imagined that P/C skipping the team event would turn out to be a tactical error and end up costing them. He's only complaining now about the judging because it hasn't gone in their favor (despite their best efforts).
I don't think V/M choosing to do both team event dances was completely altruistic on their part. Yes, they were very "team Canada" about it, and probably knew that it was possibly the only chance any of the Canadian skaters to get gold, but it also let them get their programs on Olympic ice and got feedback. They also managed to get the once-in-every-four-years crowd on their side, though they probably didn't predict the support would get so big.
VM smoked out the judges' intentions. Social media was abuzz with their wonderful performances, but I ignored that - what did the judges say? The judges were signaling their intentions, particularly when they docked an invisible key point miss. As usual.
DeleteHow exactly would you determine what the reception is about? That VM's reception was due to secondary associations such as the music they chose and their affiliation with Yuna, rather than the immediate impact of their skate?
Well, sure, there's the "immediate impact' of their skate, but I'm not going to discount the Korean fans' sentimental attachment to the MR music. Yuna skated her first senior SP to it, that's when she started getting her countrymen's attention. She even re-used it for an exhibition program at one of her shows. And it's really popular music. Add to that Korean skating fans' familiarity with V/M via Vancouver, the All That Skate shows, and Yuna's professed admiration for V/M. So a combination of all that.
DeletePapadakis allegedly doesn't lift weights. I wonder what her training/off-ice conditioning is like. She doesn't carry her weight in lifts like Maia and Tessa do.
ReplyDeleteI meant gym weights about the "weights" in the first sentence.
DeleteShe seems weak. But why would she lift weights when Cizeron does all the work to hold her up, it's not necessary, lol. If they tried some lifts that V/M or ShibSibs do, they would fail.
DeleteI think some P/C fans think she doesn't do weights to keep dancer's physique (slim, not over-bulky). But... ballet dancers do non-ballet conditioning, too. And they absolutely work on their core strength. Some of the best dancers are fantastic with their core, they're great with dance lifts, and they're not as skinny as Papadakis (who, if the old saying that TV adds 10 pounds is true, must be truly skinny in person).
DeleteBoth Maia and Tessa have dancer's physiques, and for those who think it matters, Tessa was slimmer in this comp than Gabriella, but it was all conditioning with her, so there was nothing redundant on her body - it was a complete machine, just what she needed and no more -but everything she needed.
DeleteA lot of skating fans appear to have a very dated idea of what ballerinas ought to look like, and their ideal appears to be "wraith". However, look at ballerinas today and it is a strong topline with very muscular legs. Many top ballerinas look very strong, and it doesn't detract at all from their lines and movement.
How she carries herself in lifts - which is actually the Meryl Davis playbook of just pasting her core to her partner, or kneeling, or otherwise bringing in extra support to her core - isn't nearly as problematic as her skating, and same goes for him.
Honestly, the following article just convinces me that ice dance, if not the whole of figure skating, should be kicked out of the Olympics.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.buzzfeed.com/johntemplon/by-voting-for-their-own-figure-skating-judges-may-have?utm_term=.dpL5d6LNx#.xmZbd1NEJ
Nice of the writers to look closely at judges giving their home team some advantages, but they're not paying as much attention to the other judges' shady scoring. The term bloc judging isn't as popular nowadays, but did they think deal-making doesn't happen anymore?
Yes. I love it, but should've been given the boot long ago. If nothing else ice dance should especially.
ReplyDeleteHoly shit Cizeron was wobbly indeed. Never noticed. Is he still? I can appreciate their talent but I've never really paid much attention to them. After V/M 'retired' I drifted away from dance, probably will again if this crap & corruption is where it's headed again.
He's not as wobbly as he was because he's on two feet a lot of the time, and please notice how many of their in between moves are not only two footed, but low. He loves a cantilever. And look at his twizzle exit, he gets into a crouch and spins. These are filler moves that convince some in the audience that PC are being extra, but it's the opposite. They're being less. They stop skating every chance they get, and both lower and extend their points of balance and centers of gravity every chance they get, whereas VM do the opposite.
Delete^How many of their in between moves are two footed, etc., NOW. And how many of their in between moves features only one of them on their blades while the other is being dragged or has stopped. Up above, they were doing a lot more skating, and their actual skating kept them out of the top ten. Whatever talent they possess, it is not at the level of skating skills.
DeleteI think it was Kurt who called P/C’s skating as minimalism on ice. While he was referring to their “clean lines” (albeit, unmatched lines), it could easily mean minimal content. It drives me crazy how very little skill they display in their programs.
DeleteIt drives me crazy how very little skating they display in their programs. As with DW, there's a reason.
DeleteHoly shit, junior V/M trumps Olympic silver medalists P/C. That quickstep was jammed with difficult footwork throughout the skate. I started giggling when junior V/M performed the same spread eagle lift that P/C performs in Sonata (or any other skate) but the laughter stopped when they continued that lift into a rotational lift. Amazing. Let's see P/C try it.
ReplyDeleteI rewatched the Olympic FD programs and caught a slow-mo of Cizeron assisting her as she crawled up his body during their "lift" and caught how strained he looked in the lift. 1) It speaks volumes about how weak Gabbi really is and 2) "The best male dancer" really struggles keeping a clean edge.
One of the P/C ubers posted a link of their Paso SD from a few years ago and I couldn't decipher between the Paso portion and the flamenco. Like you said OC, they are incapable of changing rhythms. That Paso also showed how they lack in versatility. I really don't think they are capable of making those quick turns and we also saw this during the hip hop SD last season. Interesting too how he really struggles in taking the stronger lead like you need in the Paso.
Love this Jr program - especially straight line twizzles section (seriously holy crap! - harder than required element performed by most teams at Olympics). This is perfect precursor to '14 SD which is one of my favorite programs in figure skating history.
ReplyDeleteThey're fabulous.
DeleteBTW, "Baby Ballroom" just popped up on Netflix - follows a bunch of young dancers from the U.K.'s ZigZag Dance factory as they develop and compete. Max and Olivia evoke very young Scott and Tessa in their vivacity and attack. I was happy to see in the comments of this junior video was praise for Tessa. Tessa has always had tremendous attack as a performer, going back to when she was a kid. She has always loved to perform, and she dances and skates to the tip of her chin, the tip of her fingertips, and she always points her toes. Maybe because she was less exuberant when she wasn't skating, people thought Scott was "better" early on, but I can't think of a single girl that age who could remotely make sense of him on the ice and stay on track but Tessa. Scott can skate with complete freedom and aggression and she's always there giving shape to what they're doing, never trying to catch up, which is extraordinary, given Scott. Also difficult to think of any boy at that age she wouldn't be skating "down" to in order to partner with him. Just look at her in the steps across the rink, particularly coming out of them.
-That FSU user allezfred who is a mod is on par with the P/C uber's i see on youtube with his delusion comments.
ReplyDelete-P/C can stay bitter no one outside of their circle jerk FSU thread cares about them. V/M and S/S were trending worldwide while not even a blip for P/C since that boring FS moonlight snoratta
-P/C stans can stay salty and cry until the cows come home with their bullshit excuses as to why P/C lost "THE CANADIAN JUDGE" "COSTUME MISHAP" SCREEEEEEEE! (which btw they got their asses handed to them in the V/M victory thread on goldenskate)
- Skaters who wanted P/C to win and are being passive agressive on social media about it are pathetic. (looking at you T/D and misha ge) don't even get me started on misha ge good lord.
- Journalists who think P/C are robbed don't know shit about figure skating because if even the marjority of GS and FSU users can see that V/M had a fair victory than you know jack shit about FG.
-
Isn't it interesting that some prominent U.S.A. people are all for the French instead of fellow North Americans. Let's not be too blatant, ok.
DeleteWill forever side-eye Madison Hubbell claiming VM have a lot of little bobbles. Her entire viewpoint presupposes everybody's skills are about equal, and VM's showmanship puts them over - that's delusional. Secondly, the team that makes dozens of little ignored bobbles is the French, so, again, delusional.
One reason I don't want VM to continue - I want a retirement announcement - is I want to see how long ice dance sticks with a team nobody but their ubers care about.
Journalists don't know shit about figure skating, period. There are journalists who have been covering it for decades and written books who still can't tell one edge from another. That a sportswriter can flourish in figure skating while remaining completely ignorant about the absolute basics is one more proof that it's not a sport.
I just want to say that Madison Hubbell full-well knows skating. Despite the words that come out of her mouth, she knows how VM skate, she knows how PC skate. She knows which team is better--the team that were among her idols before she and Zach changed agents from Tara Modlin to David Baden, started shamming, and moved to Gadbois. What comes out of her mouth isn't delusion; it's political agenda.
DeletePerhaps Madi made those comments since she's attached at the hip to Gabi? All I know is that Zach publicly stated that his idols are VM not too long ago.
DeleteOne thing I find funny about Madi's comments is that although it seems like she looks up to P/Cs skat-uh...danSe, the way she and Zach skate is more like V/Ms.
Oh, the agent piece of it. Had to refresh my memory as to both Tara Modlin (ay yi yi) and David Baden (IMG) -those were the days when I knew that stuff.
DeleteShamwise, the only thing interesting to me at the moment is watching fans talk to themselves about VM's special relationship. They all need someone to tell them that relationships like that don't exist outside fan fic -
there's no bizarre alternate universe where everything is amorphously sexual, in love-ish but not precisely, soul-matey but not sibling like, but not the other thing either. When skaters start spitting descriptions like that out about themselves, why do fans buy it? Oh, it's some super special undefinable nebulosity!
No such thing.
OY canada I need your thoughts on a few things:
ReplyDeleteDid you think alina won over evgenia fairly?
What do you think about V/M coming back one more time in 2020 for worlds in montreal?
Did javier deserve the silver over shoma?
was shoma overscored?
did kaetlny deserve bronze over satoko?
I have a feeling P/C will be overtaken by another team in two years. do you agree?
Re ladies - I don't know. I think Kaetlyn Osmond is the better skater among the top three, but both Alina and Evgenia deliver more difficult combinations, and, importantly, are legitimately fast and have centered spins. I don't think they have Osmond's stroking depth, glide and power, and both girls express themselves with their limbs, not their entire bodies. Super flexible, but they're like Yuna Kim, they don't open their chests, their hips, or stretch. Of the two I liked watching Medvedeva's programs better, and when I slowed down her lutz it appeared to me she did take off on the outside edge. It's a fair result though, if you accept that Zagitova has a back-loaded program and jumped better. PCs are a mess, as always. IOW, I can't split the difference.
DeleteVirtue Moir comeback - please no. I am positive they returned this time only because they were assured they'd have a chance to win, only to have the entire thing betray them in the Olympic season - PC scoring higher in their GP's than VM did in theirs (sorry, it matters - it was the same with DW and VM), and the ludicrous scoring for the short and the long. VM blew PC off the ice in the long and the judging still gave PC the free. Others have pointed out the political and happenstance stuff that was able to tilt things just enough for VM (for example, no yellow boxes in their free), but I'm done. Ice dance is just so fucking foul. I hate the gaslighting, the think skins, the backbiting, the politics, and the ignorance.
Didn't watch mens.
Didn't watch Satoko.
What do you mean overtaken? In terms of ability there are already plenty of teams who outskate PC. The only way PC will be overtaken is if they're dropped.
^Both Medvedeva and Zagitova should get their butts underneath them, which would help both of them get deeper into the ice.
DeleteBasically after V/M retire its going to be:
ReplyDelete- the shamining
- Exposing P/C
We'll see.
DeletePC won't be 'exposed' if they don't continue to dominate. A new narrative will be constructed.
If Scott and Tessa do come clean, it will be on their terms, with none of their prior lies brought to the fore, and fans shouldering all of the blame.
oc
I Can only imagine Hubbell and Donahue being elevated in nextqquad and pc falling out of favor
DeleteIf VM retire and the Shibs do not return, then HD will be the best ice dance team in the world when it comes to what is actually happening on the ice. The best team is not allowed to win unless they can clear an impossible hurdle. If PC are dropped, then it's going to be another crap team that gets elevated to be the competition.
DeleteAn ironic twist would be SD since they seem to be the ones benefiting from that sham and not HD.
9:18, but thanks to a poster who tipped me to some juniors, let's not forget the junior teams coming up. If CP get away from Igor and if Cerreira can make a bigger "impact", they can be in the mix.
DeleteThe one (and only) thing Virtue Moir, Davis White and Papadakis Cizeron share is conviction. Thankfully there's fourth team with conviction - the Shibs. In the area of on ice public relations, if you don't believe it, the audience won't believe it, and the judges can't give it to you because there's no plausible deniability. The Shibs and VM really do it, DW and PC fake it, but never did or do DW and PC's faces betray that they were full of shit. Just watch one of last season's (2016-2027) PC performances where Papadakis completely missed a counter step and botched a solo twizzle almost immediately afterwards. From the knees up, she would have one convinced nothing happened. Her body, face and hair don't register that something happened. Piper Gilles is very resolute, but when a mistake happens, you see it in her face. Her smile gets bigger; whatever mood she's working intensifies. PC are as la la la when there's a mistake anyone can see as they are when it's going per plan. Tessa's focus also intensifies. Similarly, Davis White also never acknowledged a mistake in their face or body language. That time in 2008 or 2009 when Charlie fell all over the ice shows the absurdity of taking that to an extreme. If Meryl had slowed down for five seconds to take a breath and connect with him (not sure re-connect is the word as even at their best there's not much connection), I think he would have gotten his skates back under him sooner. However, absent a complete splat fest, the "mistake, what mistake?" approach is crucial for fake skating teams.
DeleteSo look at Hubbell and Donohue's free at Pyeonghchang. Uncertainty in every move.
i cannot find the short dances for the olympics this year. just the team event. bizarre.
Deletehubbell is too good for donohue and they both know it.
hawayek baker team is my new fave after VM and shibs.
I can't find the medal ceremonies - first time I've seen the podium stuff and the medal ceremonies separated, so a little strange. I can only find certain full length skating programs and not as much of the ice dance competition as I'd like. It will all start flooding youtube in another month or so, I expect. Or I can chase links shared on the fan forums before they're deleted.
DeleteI haven't watched Hubbell Donohue with a de-constructionist eye, so I don't know which of them is the stronger. The uncertainty really showed up in Hubbell's limbs in the long, but then it's easy to watch more of the woman in ice dance. She started to close up and hedge her bets.
HD are actually an evenly matched team. Depending on how the wind is blowing, some people will say she’s stronger or he’s stronger, but we’ve seen this sort of wind before we VM, Shibs, and PI. Remember all of the years people tried to claim Scott was better than Tessa?
DeleteHD have all of the goods. Their problem is the mental game. There’s nothing they should be doubting about themselves. When they can not let the doubt get in the way, they’re great. When the doubt does get in the way, the results are not pretty. There’s a report from someone who was in the arena that they looked terrified in the warm-up. They have talked in the past about doubt, feeling like they’re outsiders looking in, etc. One of the family members talked about the psychological effect of skating while feeling like you’re going to be held to a higher standard. They work with some sort of life coach, but I think a real sports psychologist is in order.
The medal ceremony was separate in Sochi too. They sell tickets to the medal ceremonies, so I think it’s an IOC grab for more money.
But the Shibs have to skate while being held to a higher standard, and VM have had to do the same since 2009-2010, and it's only gotten worse since then. How they skated this Olympics with the bullshit scoring this season, I do not know, but it was their third straight set of perfect programs across three Olympics, and I don't think there is another individual or team who can say the same.
DeleteHow many extremely talented teams and individuals have been defeated by the mental game? How many have been able to trouble shoot it with a sports psychologist?
I noticed that their free dance really doesn't work unless it's skated confidently. There are programs whose moving parts (so to speak) almost work as a safety net for the skaters, helping smooth any glitches, etc. This skate just turned turgid, but I think it was partly the choreo. Terrific when they're on, but it's just a grind when they're not.
Last week I didn't even know who V/M were and because I am literally sick and bored, watching them skate has given me some enjoyment during this illness. And I might add - the fairy tale romance is charming. I really appreciate this blog and all the really interesting commentaries on the skating world. I thought my small profession circle was dysfunctional but figure skating (cough) who would have thought it to be similarly dysfunctional?
ReplyDeleteI agree that V/M are really some of the best skaters of all time. I can appreciate all the intricate things that they do - the deep edges, transitions, intricate footwork, hand movements, chemistry. etc that the other teams don't bring to the ice in spades. I guess the thing that makes me sad is the way V/M treat the fans. They have taken a really wonderful love story and cheapened it with the nonsense. I have only seen them for a little over a week and I am already tired of are they or aren't they. Obviously they are and then some... The thing I am struck about is Scott's obsession/possessiveness with Tessa. At some point, is she going to feel suffocated with the excess attention? or Does he constantly do this in the public to fan the fire? At any rate, I find them likable but clueless on handling their personal life.
Obviously they are, and then some .... Yes, glad to have another reality-based visitor to this blog, someone not averse to stating the obvious. :)
DeleteTheir relationship - married parents - may be easy enough to define, but I agree that they're unusual in that neither seems to chafe at the uber closeness. They have been together romantically all of their "adult" lives (if one also counts the teen-age years) and have created a family together, so if suffocation were going to happen you have to figure it would have occurred between 2010 and now at the least, but instead they are going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming away from a life where they're in each other's pockets 24/7 - if indeed whatever else they do post-competitive skating does drag them away from the 24/7.
I don't think the attention between the two of them is excessive although I can see why you'd think so. I think she's a lot more like him than either of them let on, that it's a two-way street more than they demonstrate in public, and that she feels all of that energy from him as a source of warmth and strength.
Funnily enough, this go round the games they play with their relationship have been subdued. If you want to see assholery on parade, go back to Vancouver, or check out the reality show they did leading up to the Olympics 2014.
Thank you for the response. I guess I have never seen two people so absolutely crazy about each other - except in a Disney movie. I love seeing the two of them interact and the slips that Scott gives (whether by accident or on purpose) are really endearing and funny. I would love to have someone that devoted and loving in my life - but maybe less demonstrative in public. The intensity on the ice is just crazy romantic. They didn't say they were going to retire yet...I think they really enjoy competing and most of all, the life they have grown up with and skating with each other. I know how that is because I have a neuropathy that will cause me to change the career I have loved and that is hard to do since I've been doing it for over 20 years. But moving on is part of life...
DeleteOn another note, this has brought back memories for me when I was on a folk dance team in college and I had a wonderful partner for 3 years. We adored each other, flirted in our Mexican and Hungarian dances (because that was the character), had passion in the Flamenco, hung on to each other backstage, always said nice things about each other and supported each other. That was a great time in my life. It really was platonic because I was crazy about another dancer. I kind of wish I had of given Tony a chance - maybe we would have had a little folk dance team by now...
I saw the reality show - because of course I have... I thought the whole thing so very contrived and all the underlying story lines going on at the same time made me bleary eyed. They didn't need them. I wanted to know more about the skating and they paraded the relationships - and in a fake way. The touching thing - So Tessa touches Scott and he says "this stuff makes me think of when we were kids" Hummmm he's a fast learner because moments later he is laying it on her. Tessa pining for Scott, Scott scaring off other guys, and this Cassandra chick. What made them think this was a good idea? Maybe they wanted the money but it came at the expense of their reputations. The Vancouver Olympics before the final skate when he pulls her close and Jessica in the stands. Hummm just plain in-congruent. At least, they didn't come up with something like the Canadian women's hockey team, Scott and his family posting pictures on Facebook of Scott kissing them all sans Tessa. Seems they have fortunately grown up with regards to Facebook and sham girlfriend antics.
Anyway, I wish them the very best whatever they end up doing with their lives, career, family etc. They can close this chapter knowing they one upped the judges and won fair and square.
I'm sorry your health challenges mean giving up something you love. I'm glad you got to do it for a long time, but if you still love it there's no good moment to move on. :(
DeleteThe reality show was taken nearly word for word from fan fic/ fan speculation , which was disgraceful. Just exploiting the hell out of fans. Making fools of people is just as heinous if they don't know you're making a fool of them - worse. Tessa at the time issued a few pious statements about how protective she is of her private and personal life - just before launching this reality show that she and Scott swore up and done was an unfiltered fly on the wall look at their real lives. Maybe it was sheer laziness that led to ripping off fan speculation - nobody wanted to hack out a storyline so they stole from fans, maybe the fan speculation being so far from the truth made them think they were being extra private and having it their usual both ways, but it was mean, particularly the instructional and proactive way they went out there and basically ordered their fans to believe every word.
EVERYBODY wanted to see more stuff about the skating. Everybody was on edge about the gold very probably being stolen from VM (as it was) in 2014. But we get this glop.
The reality show was also full of contradictions and was horrifically sexist, as I'm sure you remember.
Speaking of Vancouver, there's a vid I put together way back at the start of this blog, pretty much showing the time-line between the win and when Jessica is brought down from the stands for the hug. The timeline shows that she was pretty much kept on ice up there until the janitors were sweeping up to close the place out.
They did one up the judges. I will forever wonder what prevented the judges from throwing a yellow box at Virtue Moir during the free when they'd already signaled their intentions by giving the mediocre PC a monster score. They were very nearly betrayed by their sport again, as I'm convinced they would never have competed this Olympics without the assurance they'd be allowed to win if they skated clean.
Thank you for your kind thoughts.
DeleteI have another question that may have been answered somewhere in the blog...
What did the other skaters get out of being on the VM reality show? Meryl came off looking like a diva with a big D, Patrick sort of clueless, The French like they own the ice by nearly running into VM (lots of side eyes by VM), the weird dinner with WP that put on display their own "platonic" relationship living in the same house - only Charlie came out looking ok. The Shibs were smart not to show up for the party. Meryl brings her dog to the rink?
Also, I have to give points to what every physician did the work on Tessa's face - the nose work turned out really well as did some of the more minor work.
Hey OC, curious for your take on the latest "Canadian team FSU loves because they're not one of the ones FSU automatically hates" -- Soucisse/Firus, who had pretty nothing careers before but now in their second season are already being scored around the 100 point mark in the free dance and are V/M's subs for Worlds. They are, of course, a Gadbois team.
ReplyDeleteSD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUcoNCacaDg
FD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GlAKDobSzY
I am not OC, but I have a pretty high level of expertise in ice dance, and I want to say that S&F have real skating skills to back up their Gadbois polish, as do the Canadian junior champions (also a Gadbois team), Lajoie & Lagha. Both teams have benefitted from Gadbois polish and have risen up quickly partly because of Gadbois politics/favour within Skate Canada, but both teams are the real deal nonetheless. They both have it in them to easily be better teams than Gilles/Poirier in the next four years.
DeleteThis is not the first time someone has brought them up in the commments section I think. I'll take a look.
DeleteAlthough I hate thinking of Gadbois as a place that "polishes" teams. They certainly didn't do anything for VM - the few Gadbois touches that surfaced in last year's program (before they were cut) looked silly and twee.
DeleteOK, I looked at the SD and the fd, although I had to bail on the fd after the steps, I couldn't take it anymore.
DeleteThe choreography is godawful, so fucking hectic, so busy busy busy, that it ends up feeling like a mess, and even when they do execute a straight up chocktaw as in the sd, I'm still left feeling, are they ever going to knock off this nonsense and SKATE for more than three seconds at a time?
There is so much scampering, running, opening the arms to the sky, etc. So so much repetitive movement. They do go in and out of hold a great deal and change direction, but I still have no idea what their feet are doing. I'd have to slow it down and just take it apart to really know what we've got here.
They tend to get sloppy in the back end of both programs. Firus totally fell forward off his edge on the last twizzle the fd, but it was at the end of the rotation so he just turned himself around and got out of it, but that blade is off the ice and the toepick is pointing straight down. They need to breathe, get somebody who has faith in their skating and isn't just throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the choreo. We need choreography where it's possible to actually see their skating.
They remind me of some kind of circa 2013 Bobrova Soloviev (with better posture) - kind of everything but the kitchen sink - here's some skating, but here's some what the fuck is this. Sliding around on the edge instead of gliding on it? BS had some good skating skills as well, and they definitely skated their programs, but in 2013 their blades were all over the place, not always intentionally. The choreo here is so frantic, it does appear as if they're hiding something. Ok, can the two of you GLIDE together from here to there please?
I watched their chocktaw and the lobes were not the curviest - fairly shallow, although I know they're still juniors.
They're a good looking couple, which might account for some of their fan forum partisans. She's got great hair, and reminds me quite a bit of Tanith Belbin. He reminds me of another skater, but it's not coming to me at the moment.
Finally, I felt the audience response to them was pretty flat. It's just a lot of stuff that doesn't add up to anything right now. I only mention it, if true, because in a post-VM ice dance world, and with the Shibs having to earn everything they get and still not being allowed to come out on top, figure skating is going to have to ride or die on their manufactured top teams like PC and these two, and if the audience doesn't really care no matter how much astro-turfing we get, will figure skating switch gears?
DeleteThis was more in line with my reaction to them. There's a lot of...not skating happening. Definitely not enough to match the steep upward turn their scores are suddenly taking (they also finished ahead of W/P in the short dance at Nationals once W/P lost their twizzles).
DeleteOne correction, though, they're actually seniors and were last year as well. She's been senior since 2014-15 with her last partner, and he moved up in 2015-16 with his previous partner.
Thanks for the correction re seniors. The not-skating is particularly notable with all the in-hold, out of hold, direction changing, which is usually a hallmark of skating skills, but when you look down at the feet, they are not gliding in and out and turning on clean edges and clean feet; it's a lot of kicking, pushing, and it's very choppy.
DeleteNo one can really say that Gadbois doesn't produce polished teams. Even if you hate MF's choreo, they have consistently sent out teams that are well-packaged (at least on the surface) and well-trained. Judges love Gadbois teams in part because they are packaged so neatly and come out looking smooth and "pretty". It is very similar to when Igor Shpilband was running the Detroit Skating Club like an ice dance barn that was just churning out new cows with no end in sight. All his teams, regardless of level or country, skated to clichéd, overused music (people used to joke about which of his teams would be skating to Phantom or West Side Story next, and at least one always did) and had repetitive, cookie-cutter choreography, but they were very polished, packaged, and never sent out to a competition of any level until they looked extremely ready and well-trained. His teams during this time period shot up the ranks at all levels, both nationally and internationally, because judges loved the surface polish and glitz and ignored the fact that all his teams (and at one point there were more than 20) skated programs that looked exactly the same. His only piece of creative, non-cookie-cutter choreography in that entire period was Silverstein & Pekarek's Tori Amos FD in their first (and only) senior season (99-00). Gadbois has been doing much of the same in different ways - they don't give their teams all the same look and moves set to different music, like Igor did, but they concentrate more on outward polish than actual skating skills, and young teams end up getting an early push in their careers because of it. Obviously V&M were a very different situation since they were already a very experienced team when they came to Gadbois and did not require the same kind of coaching or "re-packaging" that young, inexperienced teams did.
DeleteI forgot to add, V&M also managed to escape becoming a Igor cookie-cutter team because when they started training in Michigan, they were always more under the supervision and coaching of Zueva than Shpilband. They were able to benefit from Igor's technical expertise and political pull at the time, while escaping his boring and repetitive choreography by working more with Marina.
DeleteHis choreography is really bad.
DeleteAnd I'm mortified for W/P that this team finished ahead of them in any phase of the competition. W/P may have booted their twizzles but SF's skating is sloppy. It's ok to be sloppy as long as you rush rush rush through everything and don't dwell? It takes more skill to sustain something, but figure skating is proactively going in the opposite direction, both in the rulebook requirements and the judging.
DeleteIce dance will really have dropped the bar even further if those appalling lifts continue to pass muster. IMO the exits are a tell. If they were steady on their blades, their lifts wouldn't be him hauling her around like a sack of laundry, ending with him sliding her onto the ice.
When they do glide, however minimally, it looks to me that they get the glide via momentum from one of their running and skidding maneuvers, and not from their stroking. I've seen 1 and 3/4ths of their programs and still have no idea of the strength of their basic stroking.
ReplyDeleteP.S. their lifts are the worst. She's getting the Meryl Davis exits - exiting onto her boot leather. That also makes me suspicious. Sure, help her exit, stablize her, but let her skate out of at least one of these shotput or headbanger-esque things.
Now these programs I believe are all Marie France. :)
Oh ya, for sure they are. And Soucisse looks like a mini Marie France.
DeleteThere's a poster on FSU (presumably a P/C fan) who said that Scott said compulsories were boring. Now please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, the only CD Scott grumbled about was the Yankee Polka. I don't remember him saying CDs were "boring". I think someone's trying to justify P/C half-assing their SDs because they're not into certain rhythms. Sure Scott didn't like the polka, but he still skated the heck out of it.
ReplyDeleteBecause V/M will likely (officially) retire, ice dance can go to hell. I'm sorry for the Shibs, but I honestly think bronze is as far TPTB will let them win. I'm sorry for the good teams like Hawayek/Baker, who will probably be screwed over by the feds (including their fed) because of backroom deals.
ReplyDeleteI actually wish that an upstart team starts getting promoted this coming season (or the next). Give them the works, like dramatic rise (10 spots upward or more), spanking new choreo from an ordained training center that will "unlock their full potential", great press about how they are changing the face of ice dance. Let P/C get a taste of their own medicine.
I wonder if Russia/US will get impatient for an ice dance gold medal. This quad was supposed to belong to the French (boo hoo, cry more, ubers). Wonder which team will be set up as the new "rivals". Let them duke it out. Four years might seem short, but the tides of favorable opinion can change easily. Gotta keep the narrative that one team's not so dominant, right? *roll eyes*
Scott didn't like compulsories. He cheered when they were eliminated. This was back before he realized the new scoring system would end up every bit as corrupt - more so, IMO - as the 6.0 scoring system. He used to tout the Code of Points as promoting accountablity. The scores showed what you did on the ice. He hasn't said that in a long time, obviously. Back around 2010, Scott often emphasized that ice dance had become a real sport, with defined elements evaluated according to objective standards and criteria. He was all about that, even more because I think he's a numbers guy. He also justifiably had tremendous faith in his and Tessa's skating, and believed he and Tessa could only thrive under an objective scoring system. He wanted to dump the compulsories so he and Tessa could spend more time developing the ods and fds they both loved.
DeleteThen the od was dumped and we got the sd, some inane hybrid. It's like a mini-fd with half a pattern thrown in, and they've even made the footwork sequence less challenging. And we all know how the Code of Points has been deployed.
So, eliminating compulsories helped "evolve" ice dance to where a lot of inferior teams could contend for the podium. Standards in the od (then sd) and fd were slowered, and being the best no longer was an advantage, as the scoring was bogus.
Where ice dance is right now would be similar to if singles were giving the same points to solo double jumps as it does to triples and quads. Same BV. But only certain singles skaters could do the double jumps and be awarded 10.00s and high GOEs - others had to do the triples and quads just to be in the mix, even if they were clearly superior skaters. That is what ice dance has become - it grades on a curve. If you are superior, there is no leeway. If you're mediocre, there's tons of leeway.
That's where we are with ice dance. I don't think Scott Moir could have predicted it.
there's NO way the sham victories of DW and PC would have happened without eliminating compulsories. they should bring it back.
DeleteScott was wonderful at compulsories. He just thought the Code of Points had made them unnecessary, since the CoP was there to evaluate the steps, edges, rhythms, etc. in the od and the free. I don't think he envisioned a time when ice dance would attempt to dispense with all that, score the thing as if it were still part of the content even when it wasn't, and give inferior skaters a pass. He thought there was now accountability in phases II and III, so phase I was unnecessary.
DeleteNever say never 7:30am. Does the general skating audience know one compulsory from another? Do the so-called journalists who have hung around figure skating for years know anything about pattern dances? No and no. Therefore as long as the compulsory was approximate-looking, they could be as corrupted as the other two phases.
DeleteCompulsories gave VM a head start in every competition but GPF. With them, they might have pulled out the win at 2011 Worlds, for example. I believe their bronze over DW in 2009 was because of the CD. As late as 2012 Worlds, DW were being deducted for a clean-for-them rhumba pattern at Worlds just because the quality sucked.
DeleteEventually, moving toward Sochi, DW simply started getting positive marks on their shitty compulsory patterns. That would have happened with the CDs too. Not to mention that they probably would have added in the fuckery of assessing levels like they do in the SD, so they can just deduct points from teams they don't like. The Finnstep incident in Sochi could have happened to VM with a CD as well.
The 2014 results would have been the same, but keeping the CDs would have bought VM some extra time.
Even still, as early as 2010 DW were third in the compulsories in Vancouver - right at the top. And their OD came in second. I obviously agree, if we still had CDs, chosen teams would get positive marks on shitty CDs, and the sport would have gamed levels too.
DeleteThere's no accountability. Journalists who claim to love the sport seem to actually only like the gossip, insider-ish, clique-y soap opera parts of it, and the performance. Otherwise one or two would have bothered to understand what happens at blade level on the ice, and what's meant to be happening. They all handwave their inability to do so. Many who DO know, don't bring it up.
Im curious though. Those journalists who know (like PJ Kwong, Kurt B, Beverly S., etc) - do they fear being blacklisted by the ISU or Skating Feds if there’s talk of shady judging? Seems like there’s that initial confusion when it first happened as to what’s happening and then suddenly shift to follow the narrative. It’s so frustrating!
DeleteAs I recall, at one interview, either Tessa or Scott mentioned how the elimination of compulsories helped to cut down training time. Instead of 3, it's 2. Yeah I get it. The current hybrid SD allows more artistic freedom combined with set pattern (which all the skaters do). However, it's still the question of integrity from the judges to mark teams accordingly. Are they knowledgeable or not? All this “going by the rules and scoring on the day” is definitely not happening, even under the new scoring rules. Tbh Probably makes no difference even if they change the grade of execution to elements again as reported. We already saw what happened all this season (even at the games. Blatantly) with the rival French couple. The scores does not make sense with performance at all. But who is going to blow the whistle on this "judging" because everyone (i.e. Officials) is in on it for one reason/excuse. Just makes me sick
DeleteThe people who know skating never talk skating in a coherent way. They talk about a team finding themselves, they discuss momentum, emotion, just a lot of bullshit, and they don't provide any context. They just disseminate bad information constantly.
DeleteWhen I sit back and watch a balance beam competition, and we're at the two best in the world, the people in the booth are dissecting it like a sport. They tell me why the winner won. It's not just math, it's why an element or feature is more difficult. Even people who know skating have been instructed to treat it like a pageant. There's the talent portion, but also personality, likeability, blah blah. None of it is actually true. None of it is in the rules.
I think if the skaters had to train the compulsories, the scoring would still be suspect, but at least maybe the skating would be better. And the scary thing is the CD still existed when the current ice dancers were competing, at least as juniors, so imagine how much worse the skating skills and ability to skate in hold are going to get. I mean, Coomes Buckland skated in Vancouver when there were CDs...
Delete"Give them the works, like dramatic rise (10 spots upward or more),"
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone remember the Israeli team of Chait Saknovsky? Lord knows they had their problems... lots of toe-pushing and running across the ice. I'm not saying they weren't overmarked, but at least they had legit speed and well-placed highlight elements.
When they jumped from 13th to 5th at Worlds in 2000, US Television never stopped telling us about their "meteoric rise," clearly implying it was a bad thing, that backroom deals were made for it to happen. And they won a bronze medal in 2002, the ice dance world practically collapsed into itself. Most of the skaters at Worlds signed a petition lodging a formal protest against it. After Worlds, they moved to Platov and improved their glide some, but they never were allowed to come anywhere near a podium higher than a Grand Prix again.
Pretty wild that 15 years later, Davis White would take all of their negative qualities, strip away anything pleasing that they did, and win the Olympics in a landslide and nobody would say a word, and that in the supposedly objective judging system. And that a year after that Papadakis Cizeron would be celebrated for jumping from 13th to 1st.
Again, not saying CS were great skaters or that there weren't politics working in their favor too, just observing about the wildly divergent reactions. The skating world should have reacted that way when DW placed in the top 10.
yup i remember that bronze in 2002. it was earned by the lithuanian team but given to israeli team and there was ALL kinds of hell that broke loose.
DeleteAaaaaand the judges most vocal in the press in 2002 about the corruption they believe elevated C/S were Sharon Rogers and Christine Hurth. Funny, huh?
DeleteSaw lots of Chait at the OG as she accompanied the Israeli skaters in the K&C.
DeleteYes, I can even remember the news coverage in 2002 and the clip of the ice dancers lined up to sign the petition. Yikes.
It's never going to end, guys. This bullshit judging and politicking in ice dance. Never. The fact that we, as fans, acknowledge and attempt to anticipate the politicking is equally as ridiculous as its existence. And I am one of the guiltiest. LOL. I actually want V/M to retire and then I can return to not giving as much of a f*ck.
omg me too. i stopped watching it when they were gone. then became reobsessed when they returned. i just cant care. i like hayek baker. they are clearly trying to emulate VM. hubbell over her and her nastiness. and shibs? i'm satisfied they got bronze. they will not be allowed another olympic medal. they should cash in and have some fun.
DeleteWe've progressed to where when a clearly superior team does win, people bitch the sport is rigged. But God forbid ask them to prove it via what happened on the ice, and they act like you stabbed their mom.
DeleteI don't know how the Shibs found the will to continue before they were allowed to break through. I've said before I don't think that would ever have happened save for the audience response to fix you. Skating had to re-shuffle a bit to allow the Shibs to move up, IMO, and that was purely because they were afraid to defy public opinion. That doesn't happen often.
Looking forward, kind of, to worlds. Do the Shibs want to compete at Worlds when the best they can expect is silver? They already have a silver.
I just googled Sharon Rogers.
DeleteFrom 2002:
""Were these things prearranged?" said U.S. judge Sharon Rogers, one of the four judges on the nine-judge free dance panel who ranked the Lithuanians ahead of the Israelis. "Of course they were. This kind of stuff is planned months in advance. What do you do about it? . . . These people aren't going to talk. It's not going to happen. . . . [The fact that] it came right on the heels of the Olympic scandal, that is brazen. It tells me they believe they can act with impunity."
Boy she was upset about the Israelis. But she's a drama queen in general - claimed to have received a threatening phone call back in the day as well.
Then from last year, Rosie DiManno in Pressreader.com
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/toronto-star/20170328/282389809315766
DiManno calling out Rogers' shockingly low scores for VM at GPF 2017. Rogers placed them fourth, behind three American teams.
DiManno posits that this is a long game, the start of a whispering campaign like the one in 2013-2014. Laying the groundwork for the French. Oh, they've lost a step.
I definitely think that's what Ms. Rogers had in mind. The problem is when they take to the ice, even an infant can see VM have lost nothing. If the sport keeps wanting to tell audiences and fans that the mediocre is top drawer and the superior is fatally flawed, good luck.
I do want to know what got up the USFSA's rear end other than sour grapes that the ones bitching about the Canadian win are from the US.
DeleteThe Shibs are skipping Worlds -- no word on their future plans yet, though.
DeleteDamn it. So why even hold the ice dance portion?
DeleteCan't say any of the potential candidates for the podium excite me.
DeleteOh, this has been linked here before, but here's some more on Rogers's scoring patterns: https://judgingprivilege.wordpress.com/2018/02/03/team-spirit/
Wow, excellent article good for that blog calling out the judges, and the assbackwards narrative insisting it's Virtue and Moir who make errors while receiving favorable scores, when the facts show it's PC.
DeleteAlso, I'm sorry, it's absolutely nauseating to insinuate Virtue and Moir need to buy good scores with Hildberg Berk earings. Fuck all that is holy, they are the best ice dancers ever to take the ice, and they're degraded this way. They're leagues beyond everyone else skating, and we've got the likes of Phil Hersch pretending they need to purchase scores with zirconia? Fuck him, and fuck Rogers.
DeleteJust went to watch Hawayek Baker at the 4CC's. Just lovely. Then watch the hyper-active Soucisse Firus. The latter actually gave me a head-ache. Super irritating.
DeleteFuck them all indeed. I don't care what they say V/M stole the show & the hearts of everyone. Especially those that are lucky enough not to have a clue about the absolute cesspool that is ice dance. Sharon & the gang are likely all bitter because people tried to taint poor D/W 'legacy' & had the audacity to imply that their Olympic gold was tainted so now they wanna try to taint V/M. LOL good luck with that. Pathetic asshats.
DeleteYou know what? I'm immensely satisfied that all the spite they have for v/m will be thrown back to their faces (and their own reputation) because the general public for years to come have access to evidence (ie video performances) of how technically and artistically superior v/m are in comparison to whomever they try to prop up and yes, even those questionable scores. You have to be either blind or stupid not to acknowledge it.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fit3XvKVZSk&t=315s
ReplyDeletePC short dance at olympics with russian commentary. cant understand. their twizzles were demonstrably off. and that lift. jesus she just climbs on him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyBTBCuKzAA
The score they got was obnoxious. And winning the free? Since they've won the free in GPF 2017, 2018 and the Olympics, it's obviously not about how they skate, but establishing a narrative. Good luck to ice dance when they're the only team in it.
Delete^Sorry, won the free at 2017 Worlds. Virtue and Moir actually won the free at 2017 GPF.
DeleteSpeaking of ignorant skating "journalists", Lynn Rutherford is showing her ass on twitter.
ReplyDeleteSome of these are comments from more astute fans:
1.) https://twitter.com/gloria_sin/status/969697515258998785
2.) https://twitter.com/schadenfreudes_/status/970052091954810880
3.) https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/status/970605205397045248
4.) https://twitter.com/schadenfreudes_/status/970720470571081728
5.) https://twitter.com/SayornisSaya/status/970732561361227777
6.) https://twitter.com/Debwilker/status/970736666544623618
7.) https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/status/970737486786912257
8.) https://twitter.com/Debwilker/status/970741655803498496
9.) https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/status/970748182492798977
Deb Wilker's comments are pretty brilliant. I particularly liked the point about why would the ISU want to be rid of VM when they're so technically superior and marketable when skating is in economic tatters.
At least she's getting dragged. The comments back at Lynn show that there are fans who know figure skating, but they stay away from fan forums.
DeleteI've made some short videos I thought people here might be interested in.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/canadablues/status/971259188004425728
-canadablue
many thanks! i would do comparisons of VM's insane lifts vs. P/C junior lifts where P is climbing on C like he's a tree
DeleteThank you - really good job. Shows the glaring differences that apparently the judges refuse to see. They should let the audience judge - kind of like American Idol. VM would win by a landslide every time.
DeleteThank you!
DeleteI want to ask permission to embed them here. If an embed doesn't count as traffic to the youtube account, I'll link them.
Related topic - I've long wanted to do split screens but the video program that comes with my laptop doesn't have that feature. There are plug ins, but it involves going to so many archives and taking so many steps I gave up. And then I was being an ostrich for most of ice dance the past year or so.
I'm starting a free trial of a video program that does split screens, and if it's easy to use I'll purchase it, since it isn't expensive. If it goes well, I want to do side by sides of full programs as well as side by sides of elements.
The twizzles alone from this year are ridiculous. Ridiculous. The fan cams tell the story about speed and ice coverage since the camera POV is static and not moving with the skaters. Ludicrous, the PC scores. So I'd want to do sbs of that as well. At some point maybe I can go back and do sbs of your feet only videos or some of your current pc/VM comparisons, but with your permission.
Welcome! :)
DeleteYeah always feel free to embed my stuff, as long as there's still a clear link to the original as well. I don't care about traffic per se if people are seeing the stuff, but I do like them having the option of knowing where to look at my other stuff if they're interested.
That sounds fantastic! Yeah, for whatever reason my brain processes stuff better seeing one and then the other so I haven't been interested in doing side by sides, but I'm sure many people would find that helpful. You're definitely welcome to use my stuff as long as you both clearly credit and link to the original.
Very nice to see you back around doing skating analysis! :)
(Also LOL, I had planning on doing a short Twitter video for H/B vs S/F at 4CC. If S/F hadn't had a deduction, H/B would have been only a little over three points ahead in that FD, that is so gross.)
DeleteThanks canadablue. Much more bearable now that things turned out properly, result-wise, in this Olympics. Against all odds.
DeleteWhats bugging me the past few seasons is the uncontrollable scores for bad skating. Even during the V/M and D/W, it was pushing ridiculous (in favour of D/W) . But with P/C (after quad till present) it’s just outrageous. WR after WR for not only bad skating but also non consistent and growth skating (as some fans would claim them to be). I think V/M’s about realistic as they go. Definitely agree on Nationals for both program scores. Even if p/c ubers were throwing a fit. Dont get me started on the ones from the games O_o
ReplyDelete