New canadablue videos from the Grand Prix series below, and here.
I'm throwing in this prediction right at the top: in 2015-2016 Weaver and Poje will be dropped faster than Cappellini and Lanotte. This season's scores and titles were/are checkmarks on ice dance's To Do list, and done.
As ice dance judging continues to be unfair, disgusting, and depressing (the Shibs! That was heartbreaking.), and thus upsetting, I thought this "feet only" video post might benefit from comic relief:
Sinitsina / Katsalapov, Rostelcom Cup (full length)
If you watch the feet-only version, the actual skating doesn't become truly dire until after the lift collapses, whereupon you start worrying he's going to slice her shins to ribbons. Full body also shows Nikita skating with an ass jut that makes Dmitri Soloviev's look clenched.
Now Sinitsina & Katsalapov feet only, where you can watch the skates instead of his ass (in a bad way), his facial expressions, and his wildly swinging arms.
And here is Chock and Bates's brilliant winning skate at Rostelcom, feet only:
The lifts in particular. I don't know what these Chock and Bates lifts got at the GPF but the GOE must have been spectacular. Shpilband, he's like a lift magician.
Here are the poor Shibs at Cup of China, who just can't get their levels, darn it. They need to go to Igor!
This reminds me of when Virtue and Moir just couldn't get their levels and Davis White were getting their levels more frequently and nobody actually looked at the element to see if either team were actually getting or not getting their levels on the ice. I don't know why it's okay to discuss how something was actually skated when it's a pairs team, but poor form to do so in ice dance. Nope, it's straight to the protocols, because we know how reality-based those are on the TES side. Side-eye the pcs, go ahead, but TES protocols on key points and lifts - always solid.
In the actual Grand Prix final, loved how this "sport" managed to hoist Chock and Bates and Papakadis and Cizeron onto the podium alongside Weaver and Poje by hook or by - let's face it - crook. The skating threatened to get in the way but ice dance always gets around that one. The Shibutanis were punished on the levels for daring to skate so brilliantly on a day the Chosen Children were having a bad time. That's how they'd do it to Virtue and Moir. Brilliant skate! Oh wait, no, it was, invisibly to us, a not so brilliant skate in areas only visible to the judges. Lift level and key point, oh dear. Look at the protocols - must be true.
Here's Papadakis and Cizeron at Cup of China:
Paradis Oulette at Skate Canada:
and Weaver and Poje:
It's not everybody who factored, and I'll be posting more videos later (thank you, Canadablue) such as Gilles Poirier, but I think this gives us a nice overview of where ice dance is going, and where it's going is all about where it's coming from.
Continuing the discussion from the last post, I am very disappointed in Krylova's recent remarks, especially considering her remarks at the beginning of the season:
ReplyDeleteQ: I.e. previously they had to deal with knowing you can not be placed any higher, no matter what?
AK: Well, deal.. Kaitlyn and Andrew were not placed higher because Tessa and Scott were unbeatable. It was a great pair, much more experienced than mine. Very talented, very hard working. So I think it was right.
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/krylova-indecisive-coaches-dont-survive-in-this-sport-by-simonenko-vorobieva.93258/
When did this about-face happen? Because she saw the writing on the wall for next season? And what happen her teams H/D and P/I, who have been completley thrown under the bus this season, because they don't have their respective feds actively politiking for them; did they just slack off this season?
This "sport" is a complete and utter farce. Fuck the ISU for whoring itself out and bending over backwards for D/W and continued fall-out of their undeserved OGM.
Her recent remarks are even more disingenuous in light of what she said in that same interview linked above:
DeleteQ: Speaking of the ice dance queue, which is harder: to be an athlete in that queue or a coach?
AK: The queue existed in the past, but think now it goes away, my pupils have it easier. Take for instance the Canadian pairs and it's obvious it's not about the queue, it's just that Tessa and Scott were better. Had my pair skater better they would be first. But were not on that level. I like being honest in everything - I don't like it when a pair is pushed forward without skating really well and we are being convinced they are really better.
That last sentence sums up D/W's entire career.
Jesus. It's like she went through the Stepford program now.
DeleteI said this in the previous thread, but it looks to me like she's upset that VM might be coming back instead of stepping aside and letting WP take over. As long as that was the plan she was very complimentary of VM; if she's heard through the grapevine that they're not leaving it could explain her about-face. Otherwise I don't understand why she'd suddenly start taking shots at VM when they're no longer a factor and when she was always supportive in the past.
DeleteW/P have been outscored by P/C and Ch/Ba during the Grand Prix. She hasn't been paying attention if she thinks they're just fine with V/M out. I think it's more likely to do with political pressures than acting out against V/M. If the comment is about W/P vs V/M, who is she hoping to persuade by this comment? I don't think coaches can change narratives by their comments, but they can support them.
DeleteWhy exactly would she be pressured to criticize VM? DW got their gold, nobody important is complaining about it, and they're unlikely to come back to competition. Not to mention it's possible to praise DW without tearing VM down, why would she need to do a complete 180 in a few months?
DeleteI guess I disagree on two points. First, I think the corruption we've seen this fall is related to covering up/expanding on what happened with D/W. I expect their win will continue to be justified until the cows come home. Second, I think it's difficult to praise D/W without tearing V/M down because that whole narrative was constructed by saying D/W had everything V/M had, but were still somehow even better. Praising D/W carries little weight if there's not an explanation as to why V/M weren't quite as good, otherwise the praise can apply to V/M too and there's no distinction made.
Deletehttp://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014/12/13/104027246?tcid=tw_share
ReplyDelete"We're really pleased with our performance, but sometimes in ice dance you just don't understand the scores, but we struggle and we fight through," Maia Shibutani said while resisting tears.
"We put together two good performances here and we connected with the audience," Alex Shibutani said. "That meant a lot to us, especially when you can't control your scores."
So heartbreaking.
Also
"Papadakis and Cizeron's delicate and ample skating relied on a unique combination of skating skills, with deep and long edges, and dancing skills, with upper-body movements and postures. "
P/C are just something else! Doing the basic keywords of ice dance like nobody's business. Only not so much.
That PC statement is especially delightful considering they have horrible posture. It's such a generic statement too like the author couldn't pinpoint any specific strong points in their programs to comment on.
DeleteHow awful for the Shibs. They have my favorite programs this year, with the skating and dance skills to back it up.
It kills me that Maia was fighting back tears. It must be horrible to not just work that hard, but EXECUTE, and deserve it, and it's absolutely futile. Doesn't matter.
DeleteI can't reconcile myself to Virtue and Moir because they were just that good, so the travesty was enormous, but on a personality level, it's easier to suck up because they play the game so hard themselves, and are epic liars themselves. The Shibs have been nothing but class acts, on and off the ice, and to have that gut punch in the scores - oh, you outskated the favorites and were brilliant, but just as we did with Virtue and Moir's short in Sochi, we're going to gut your scores on levels and GOE. God. I hope nobody I care about as a fan EVER goes into ice dance EVER again. There is no point.
That stuff about P&C's "unique" attributes is a joke.
It just makes me think somebody's parents have selfishly not "shared the wealth" so to speak, among USFSA officials, and others. Don't they know how the game is played?
Deleteyes, ive cried for Maia. at least VM were allowed to win one gold they deserved. Shibs have been gtg screwed for years.
Deletei'm so sick of those british guys saying shibs' technique didnt touch Papadakis etc. are they insane? shibs should have won, and WP 2d. its just an insane popularity contest. im hoping the plotters behind davis white will start plotting on behalf of the Shibs.
ReplyDeletePapadakis is awful...her lines are non-existent, her entries and positions in their lifts, and her twizzles are all over the place. She is definitely the weak link in that team.
DeleteI think Ch/Ba have that role sealed up, 5:10 :(
DeleteBy British guys do you mean Eurosport? They sucked on pairs as well. They have no idea what's going on down there on the ice.
DeleteNo, 5:10, it's been a done deal long before this season. The Shibs were thrown under the bus as soon as they made the world podium and especially that one time they beat DW in TES. They will pay and pay and pay and pay for that forever.
Deleteoh i get it, the DW farce has to include screwing the shibs. i really just cant deal! weaver and poje only one bc bates fell. otherwise it would have been weaver in third place. i hate this sport.
DeleteWell there you have it...the Eurosport guys said the Shibs didn't give "110%"...no medals for them!
Delete(6:47 mark):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iACfyys7868
Isn't Charlie mentoring the Shibs this season? Maybe he can get the Moms to chat up the officials like they did when D/W were competing...
Delete"I'm throwing in this prediction right at the top: in 2015-2016 Weaver and Poje will be dropped faster than Cappellini and Lanotte. This season's scores and titles were/are checkmarks on ice dance's To Do list, and done."
ReplyDeleteWP said late last season that this current season is the only one they were committing to. My suspicion is that if they win Worlds, they'll retire.
W/P gave an interview with Golden Skate and it seems like they have plans to continue on past this season. They want to make a bigger impression on the world of ice dance and still see more to be achieved in their partnership. It looks like they won't be retiring anytime soon.
Deletehttp://www.goldenskate.com/2014/12/weaver-poje/
DeleteI had not seen that article.
DeleteIn that case, I'm on board with OC's prediction.
Make an impression of what, how to copy Virtue/Moir's style and talking points but not their technique? Didn't we have DW already for that? Ok, it's a low blow because WP do skate, if not dance, and aren't even close to as bad as DW. But they're not exactly bringing anything that excites me... or have we reached such a low point that if someone actually skates on edges, we have to be all excited that they won GPF over non-skaters? I don't see the speed, the intricacy, the deep curves... they are totally average, nothing extraordinary that should make me expect to see them lead for four years.
DeleteV/M don't hold a patent on lyrical style. I think several of W/P's programs have been distinctively their own, and even though they used the Seasons theme this year, it's still a program in their wheelhouse and doesn't strike me as trying to be copycats. I understand that them wanting to make an impression might seem a bit much, but how else are skaters supposed to sell themselves that would be acceptable? Grovel at V/M every chance they get? Of course they want to be seen as their own team, that's not a crime. They're making the attempt to do things properly in good faith, so no, it's nothing like D/W. V/M's skating is sacred because of how incredible it is, I don't need skaters to stay off their hollowed ground in what they attempt to do. D/W's game was offensive because they weren't trying to do any of it.
Delete"or have we reached such a low point that if someone actually skates on edges, we have to be all excited that they won GPF over non-skaters? "
I think you're underselling where W/P are at - they have weaknesses, but are certainly not average given the current field - but yes, we have reached that point. Ice dance is skating more than anything else. It doesn't have to excite you, but skaters winning over nonskaters is by definition a good thing. Who is doing extraordinary things with their skating right now? There are teams who are more talented than W/P. But the focus on teams like P/C right now just highlights that what people are looking for isn't great skating.
I ended up making some screencaps in the course of a (completely useless, naturally) FSU discussion. Thought people here might be interested.
ReplyDeleteCircular step sequence (dance holds)
P/C
http://s1375.photobucket.com/user/canadablue/library/PC%202014%20GPF%20Circular%20screencaps?sort=9&page=1
Shibs
http://s1375.photobucket.com/user/canadablue/library/Shibutani%202014%20GPF%20Circular%20screencaps?sort=9&page=1
Twizzle unison
P/C
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag463/canadablue/PC%202014%20GPF%20Twizzle%20screencaps/pctwiz27_zps63eef398.png
Shibs
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag463/canadablue/Shibutani%202014%20GPF%20Twizzle%20Screencaps/shibstwiz1_zpsdb0b2b1b.png
-canadablue
That thread is just as bad, if not worse, than a D/W thread. Complete divorce from reality-based skating.
DeleteThanks, canadablue. I always enjoy your videos, screen caps, and insight. FSU is so fucked up right now. I don't even go there anymore because it is so difficult to find reasonable discussion about the actual skating. I want to read informed opinions not distortions of the truth and hate-filled rants. That place has turned into a complete shit show.
DeleteI'm not ignoring that the Shibs are superior in technique versus P/C, but the way they skate undermines their skill. They're slow, unpassionate (its not the sibling thing, they just need to be more animated), and unmemorable. Of course it doesn't help that their TES are a little bit shallow. This musical/classic vibe is not working for them, nor does it challenge them. Its great in the SD but once you get the FD people are expecting more. If they don't get a coaching change or something in during the off season then H/B are going to take their spot.
DeleteMy pleasure, 8:46 :) I rarely post there, FSU is everything you said and more. It can be fun to make a point, but the ignorance and passive aggressive attempts to shut it down get old very quickly.
Delete9:54 - could you explain what you mean by "their TES are a little bit shallow."?
I think what you're describing is that some people don't find them entertaining, but that's not a real problem that undermines what they offer in terms of skill in any meaningful way. I don't even think it's relevant to the corruption they face, and therefore it's not something they can strategically fix.
Anon 9:54: Explain how the Shibs are slow? If any team is slow, it's Chock/Bates.
DeleteAlso...."they're...unpassionate (its not the sibling thing, they just need to be more animated), and unmemorable. Of course it doesn't help that their TES are a little bit shallow. This musical/classic vibe is not working for them, nor does it challenge them." What do you mean by TES is shallow? If you mean they're ripped off in TES because the judges are docking them mystery levels, than yes.
And how is the musical/classic vibe not working for them exactly? Not that it should matter, but, both their programs were positively received by the audience in the GPF. Or we just imaging that?
The only problem the Shibs have is that the system has dumped them because they are in the way of Chock/Bates fake ascent (and D/W's before that). THAT'S IT.
That Politcks thread is a shitshow. The admin is a mean-spirited ass who'd clearly a P/C fangurl, and shutting down any discussion about the actual skating and mocking any attempts at including video, screencaps, etc. It might as well be a D/W thread.
DeleteIn the days before Christmas, the FSU Politicks thread responded:
Delete12 You're just wrong
11 Shibs are boring
10 Up is down
9 It's Marina
8 Laughing emoticons
7 You're just jellus
6 No politicking
5 Jokes about screenshots
4 Shibs victim blaming
3 You're crazy/angry
2 You're annoying
and don't you dare extract examples at all!
Hee. Man, photographic evidence really freaks those people out. Screenshots/gifs are hilarious! And misleading. And not the whole program (you're kidding!). And show something other than what they show. And don't prove anything because, oh right, it's just one moment. And did we mention hilarious?
^^^ Ha!
Delete"They're slow, unpassionate (its not the sibling thing, they just need to be more animated), and unmemorable."
DeleteThey're not slow. As they gain more power, they'll gain speed, but they are definitely not slow. I don't know what you mean by unpassionate and unmemorable. Their SD is exquisite, and they rock that thing. When you talk about passion, you need to be looking at their skating. Start by fixing your eyes on their blades on the ice and work your way up through their body movements. They are killing it out there in that program. As for the FD, they're currently the best waltzers in the sport and like the SD, Zoueva put together great programs for them. They are being challenged plenty. Challenge doesn't come from theme. It comes from bladework and movement. Again, look at their blades and then watch them utilize the energy that comes from their technique and work the waltz characterizations up through their body movements. They skate just like V/M do it - from the bottom-up. The RIGHT way.
Love it, Anon 6:27. And don't forget, Didier is working AGAINST P/C, not for them. He is actively trying to ruin them.
DeleteCompletely false, 6:58 am. Didier is ruining their former coach, Zazoui, for reasons too complicated to go into here. Now that Hagenauer & P/C have moved to Quebec, he is promoting them. In fact, the entire coaching team in Quebec is being promoted by various entities, principally Skate Canada, as a new destination to compete with the dance centers in Michigan. Why post something so confidently, that you know nothing about?
Delete6:58 was quoting MarieM on FSU who made the claim that Didier was working against PC. I think 6:58 would agree with you that the FSU person is the one who knows nothing here.
DeleteAnon 9:38, I'm 6:58, and I was indeed quoting MarieM, who really knows nothing about anything, really.
DeleteI agree with you though, that Skate Canada is making a big push for training centres in Canada. TSN did a whole fluff piece during Skate Canada.
i love shibs. tho theyre style can be updated a bit. a little too classic and boring. not age appropriate. BUT, they deserved to be on the podium and the grand prix was a joke. what ive noticed with VM missing this season is that the women do not know how to do anything but allow the man to place them and hold them into a lift. NOT tessa. that's what I miss most about VM. they skated as equals. and tessa did not need someone to hoist her pull her throw her or yank her into some sort of "lift" bc I dont think any of these lifts in this season are real lifts. just a lot of rolling around someone's shoulders or back. noone could do any of VM's lifts. I wish they had used all the carmen lifts in seasons except for the straight line in seasons.
ReplyDeleteThe Shibs "style" is exquisite blade and body control, beautiful flow in and out of complex transitions, and knife deep edge work. That's not boring, that's great skating. Also, "not age appropriate?" What does that mean, and what does that have to do with how a program is judged per the CoP?
DeleteWhen was the last time anything in ice dance was judged per CoP ?
DeleteThe judges made their priorities clear , it's all about excitement and flashy choreography or completely generic pseudo lyrical nonsense a la P/C. If the Shibs want to move up they have to play the game or be content finishing way off the podium.
The audience couldn't tell great skating apart from a stable of cows ( according to FSU P/B's skating skill were equal to VM ), it's only about feels now and that isn't going to change until the ISU favors a team that actually knows how to skate.
"did not need someone to hoist her pull her throw her or yank her into some sort of lift bc I dont think any of these lifts in this season are real lifts"
DeleteThat is ridiculous. I get that people miss V/M, and I agree they were capable of things other teams can't do. But I don't get why that has to be exaggerated to "everyone sucks and no one is doing it really at all" territory, because that's just not true.
http://youtu.be/TfBiNrqIR3U?t=2m29s
http://youtu.be/OoSMFKevncY?t=1m42s
http://youtu.be/WwGjuRXKZ4U?t=2m43s
These are all difficult lifts that require a lot on the women's part to achieve. A lift doesn't have to be to the level of the Carmen backflip to be real and impressive. And the man giving some minor assistance in the form of guiding the women's body or a bit of a push etc. is something that appeared in most V/M lifts as well - his participation in getting her in place is not necessarily a sign of the woman not doing her part, but of an interdependent, complex lift.
http://youtu.be/15FC69o0gZY?t=3m17s
I don't think lifts in general are the Shibutanis' strong suit, but Maia is "hoisted" up by only their arms being braced, so is basically floating on his back until the nicely controlled change of position happens.
D/W did a basterdized version of this lift - but when properly done it is a fantastic lift. Alex achieves the position on her own during the entrance, holds herself perfectly and the exit is clean.
http://youtu.be/Z8v7iDpAT9w?t=3m5s
As with the other examples, you don't find V/M's stability or ease, but this is a real lift too despite someone other than V/M doing it:
http://youtu.be/LZTvbeANqAo?t=46s
Now - Ch/Ba, G/P, Team Montreal? Far more hoisting than not.
But 7:03, what evidence is there that the Shibs being penalized has anything to do whatsoever with style or entertainment? I do think it's fair to comment along the lines of "It's totally not fair re: CoP, but this is something that could strategically help", but I don't see any reason to think a change in style would help the Shibs. The only pattern I see is that certain bad teams are held up over teams that can skate better, nothing to do with the programs. And as was noted above, the crowd at GPF loved the Shibs, so what gives?
DeleteI just want to second everything 7:26 wrote. V/M are exceptional, but it's complete silliness to argue that no team currently skating utilizes proper technique like V/M do. There are plenty of teams who fit that bill, the Shibutanis included. I don't need to compare Maia Shibutani to Tessa Virtue to determine whether Maia is executing a lift with proper technique. I just need to understand the physics of the lift and the technique required to correctly execute it and then observe the lift in action.
DeleteI also don't see the need to compare everyone to V/M as some kind of measuring stick with regards this season's competition. To claim some team did or did not deserve to win this season's GPF based on how they compare to V/M is to create a ridiculous false equivalency. Those teams aren't competing against V/M, they're competing against the other teams in the field. I don't care if no team in the GPF could do the lifts V/M did, I care if those teams can execute the lifts they've created with proper technique and if they can't, why they're being scored as though they ARE executing them.
"i love shibs. tho theyre style can be updated a bit. a little too classic and boring."
DeleteThat doesn't make any sense. If something is classic, that means it's of the highest quality and technique. Therefore, you're saying that the Shibs are skaters of the highest quality and technique but that's a bad thing because it's boring?
I'm sorry, but what the hell is wrong with a sport when its participants and fans make comments like that? Can you imagine that kind of thing happening and being accepted in hockey, tennis, basketball, etc?
"Hey Crosby, love how you score all of those goals with classic technique, kid! Unfortunately I find classic technique kind of boring, so that means those goals aren't gonna count. That's just how it goes, man. Maybe next time try to be a little more dynamic."
I think 4:07 maybe meant classical, since "style" often is used interchangeably with "theme" etc. I do agree though that it is an oddity of this sport that fans can find great technique boring just because they find the packaging boring.
Delete7:26 PM, are you kidding me? thje first two lifts you list prove the point. the man is literally throwing the woman over his shoulder and guiding her completely. when has moir ever done that? tessa positioned herself in all the lifts except the carmen straight line when moir hoisted her and SHE kept herself up.
DeleteNeither Mitch nor Zach are literally throwing Alex or Madi over their shoulder and guiding her completely. Neither one of those lifts would be mechanically possible without the girls doing a significant amount of their own work in those lifts. Both require difficult acrobatic work on the parts of Alex and Madi to enter the lifts.
DeleteScott provides about the same amount of assistance on the lift at 2:48 as Mitch and Zach give in the lifts given as examples above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=e7vsQKRIP2M#t=166
8:32, that is absolutely ridiculous.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfBiNrqIR3U&feature=youtu.be&t=2m29s
Please explain in more detail how this lift is "literally throwing the woman over his shoulder and guiding her completely". Mitch gives her assistance under her waist, but is simply not using enough force to get her to his shoulders without her being involved. And then her transition over his shoulders is by her. He only steadies her leg once she's over.
Similar principles apply to H/D. They work in tandem to start the momentum. He touches her leg a bit sooner in order to achieve the difficult pose, but she is very clearly moving her own core around into the position.
The point is not that these teams are of equal calibre to V/M. Try to step away from your wish that V/M are the only ones to ever do anything amazing ever. You don't help V/M's legacy by such exaggeration. The suggestion that proper lift technique in this sport was only done by the greatest team ever is just plain silly.
"except the carmen straight line when moir hoisted her"
Actually, Moir didn't hoist her up. She pushed into the handstand herself with minimal guidance. The Carmen lifts were insane, there's no denying that.
Hoisting is grabbing the women's body tightly and placing it up directly into position. None of the examples in this discussion fit that description. Gentle pressure under a woman's body or providing a fulcrum to work around does not equal "literally throwing". In the two examples, there are moments when the women is directing her body on her own, but guiding in of itself isn't necessarily an evil, depending on the extent of position change. Briefly steadying the motion at certain checkpoints or loosely giving her a framework to move within doesn't mean the women isn't providing most of the power behind the moving of her body.
"and SHE kept herself up."
http://youtu.be/AicVw3FzAeU?t=4m8s
The Carmen handstand lift had a very difficult position to maintain, but he did still have his arm across her chest. How does it follow that these other women are not keeping themselves up in the less difficult positions? They have supports, but they still have to do their part to keep the lift stable and the position strong, the men are clearly not keeping them wrenched in place. The men don't have Scott's stability, but the lifts as units are not wobbling hither and yon or crumpling completely which would happen if the women wasn't keeping herself stable. That's why D/W didn't try them or altered them to something atrocious. A team appearing to have minimal points of support isn't a good in of itself - take D/W's Scherz choreo lift, for example. Doing lifts with proper form is more important than some obvious "look ma, no hands!"
H/D's TEB FD lift is an interesting example because things did go off kilter, but they avoid it completely unravelling even though she's not even resting on his boot. If that's not holding herself well in position, I don't know what is.
http://youtu.be/7c6PAYjzz-I?t=1m55s
"Scott provides about the same amount of assistance on the lift at 2:48 as Mitch and Zach give in the lifts given as examples above."
Other examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=e7vsQKRIP2M#t=166
http://youtu.be/q2dtFNiMKKY?t=3m43s
http://youtu.be/rZ-jD1RMbIM?t=1m5s
I actually agree that the majority of V/M's lift entrances are more difficult than what the other good teams are currently doing. (They often featured Tessa moving through intermediate positions with little assistance - which in of itself is not rare - but with the a startling degree of accuracy being necessary to execute the transition to their chosen pose and look pleasing to boot). But it is not true of the entirety of their lift collection, particularly earlier in their partnership which is more analagous to the longevity of some teams currently competing.
5:06 continued
DeleteWhat's more important and relevant, however, is that teams like P/I and H/D are objectively not being literally hoisted and that for people to deny they're using proper technique in some sort of bid to make V/M seem more superior than they clearly already are is misguided and unnecessary.
I tend to agree with 8:32.
Delete"Now - Ch/Ba, G/P, Team Montreal? Far more hoisting than not."
I guess people are really going to persist in insisting that the Montreal teams are on the same level as Chock Bates and Gilles Poirier? Some will occasionally write "PC are not as bad, but..." yet they're always lumped in when the teams are listed.
I can't even begin to understand how the examples given by 7:26 are *not* hoisting, yet THESE lifts *are* hoisting? I mean... we must be watching such different programs, I don't even see how we can have a discussion. We must not have the same frame of reference at all.
This is hoisting? She pops up from nowhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E5nvbHMkmZM#t=38
A simple assist, certainly not more of a hoist than the Shibs or Hubbell lifts cited, then she holds her core beautifully and exits on a running edge that is held https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E5nvbHMkmZM#t=185 Her legs aren't flopping like Maia's do.
No hoist https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=INoh53IxYuY#t=329
She mostly achieves her own position, and then balances without the use of his hands https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eIWpVJPCs8Y#t=256
Look how gently she mounts and dismounts https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9AGwWTJNtYY#t=134
Hardly any assist compared to the Shibs and HD https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9AGwWTJNtYY#t=161
This is hoisted? https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1hztdMjbkpg#t=50
This woman is pushed into position by her partner? https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1hztdMjbkpg#t=235
Definitely not seeing anything there that could remotely be compared to CB or GP. The attacks on the DL teams here come off as mostly exaggerating and making shit up, and are as agenda driven as most of the crap spouted on FSU.
"I can't even begin to understand how the examples given by 7:26 are *not* hoisting, yet THESE lifts *are* hoisting? I mean... we must be watching such different programs, I don't even see how we can have a discussion. We must not have the same frame of reference at all."
DeleteDoris, is that you? The lifts performed by PI and HD that were used as examples would not be possible if those girls where just getting thrown over their partners' shoulders. The mechanics of those lifts demand interdependency to execute. If you can't see that, then you are Doris or were trained by Doris.
"This is hoisting? She pops up from nowhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E5nvbHMkmZM#t=38"
She doesn't pop up from nowhere. He picks her up off the ice.
"A simple assist, certainly not more of a hoist than the Shibs or Hubbell lifts cited, then she holds her core beautifully and exits on a running edge that is held https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E5nvbHMkmZM#t=185 Her legs aren't flopping like Maia's do."
I agree that the entry involves no more of an assist than the lifts that HD and PI do. I don't think the power for her running edge exit is her own though. She is on an edge, but he's pushing her down the ice.
"No hoist https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=INoh53IxYuY#t=329"
No hoist, but he's very shaky on his blade. TEB is no exception. He's been shaky in that lift all season. There's also a lot of clutching and grabbing.
I have no issues with HrDz's lifts. Their lifts are probably one of their stronger areas compared to other areas of their skating.
PO's lifts are ok, but in general lack the difficulty and mechanical complexity we see from teams like PI and HD.
"I tend to agree with 8:32."
DeleteOf course you do. Find someone offended that the gulf between V/M and certain teams isn't *quite* wide enough and often there will be a part 2 about how Team Montreal really are quite something. (Not saying you're 8:32, just that it's often the same people).
"I guess people are really going to persist in insisting that the Montreal teams are on the same level as Chock Bates and Gilles Poirier? Some will occasionally write "PC are not as bad, but..." yet they're always lumped in when the teams are listed."
The "are not as bad" part means they're not on the same level. If P/C weren't being overscored, I for one would be far less inclined to put them in with that group, but their skating is clearly inferior to that of teams they are beating. In that sense, they fit. There are a great many "buts" about their technique, they'd still be there if grouped separately.
"we must be watching such different programs, I don't even see how we can have a discussion. We must not have the same frame of reference at all."
Pretty much, but since you opted to discuss, I will in return.
"This is hoisting? She pops up from nowhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E5nvbHMkmZM#t=38"
"She doesn't pop up from nowhere. He picks her up off the ice."
I'm in the middle. I don't think it's a bad lift. She rotates her body in the entrance which is something, but the movement is not from nowhere. I wouldn't say he picks her up, the left hand seems to be more guiding - but watch his right hand though, she gets some spring from there. There is quite a bit of locking in place throughout the changes in the rest of the lift, but it's done pretty smoothly.
"A simple assist, certainly not more of a hoist than the Shibs or Hubbell lifts cited, then she holds her core beautifully and exits on a running edge that is held https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E5nvbHMkmZM#t=185"
I don't think it's full out hoist, but I do think this lift is far more grabby than the prior examples. She's involved in the motion, but it's not a very complex change of position for her - it's more a case of sliding across his back while supported at either the waist or legs. It's not entirely disimilar to this http://youtu.be/lrFwokp3z48?t=4m30s
Once we get to the held pose, I struggle with how difficult it actually is - she is braced at her lower legs, but has support up to the thighs and the upward angle is somewhat deceptive - still, she is holding herself some. But a running edge?? Hahahahaha. She's being *pushed*, for heaven's sake.
"Her legs aren't flopping like Maia's do."
I don't have any idea what you mean by this. Gabriella's legs are pinned in place ASAP. Where do Maia's feet dangle? The momentary transition before the change of pose? Her legs appear to me to be held in a pretty precise position so that Alex can find her leg.
"No hoist https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=INoh53IxYuY#t=329"
Alternate view http://youtu.be/JNXix9vK3W0?t=2m13s
No hoist, but not great form*. Then the first pose is being pinned across his shoulders. Not transitioning across his shoulders. Posing there. It was bad when D/W did it, it's bad here.
(*I dislike this style of horizontal rotational movement around to the shoulders on aesthetic grounds at the very least. It has a glitchy unevenly-paced feel to it and it looks unkempt. It's hard to say exactly how much is the skaters' technique and how much is awkwardness built into the structure of the lift.)
2:48 continued
DeleteAh, I just happened across this replay of P/C's curve lift. I feel I was too kind above. She does not have good control of herself.
http://youtu.be/LW5yftm6t5s?t=7m29s
And let's go full circle with this to P/C's other lift this season:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW5yftm6t5s&feature=youtu.be&t=4m9s
This one she is literally picked up. Arms around her waist and under her leg before she leaves the ice, she just collapses into it while bringing her other leg up. And really just a lovely lift, if clutching and flailing is your cup of tea.
I don't have many complaints with Hr/Dz's lifts. I don't think they are as difficult as they appear, but they tend to be the legitimately strong part of their programs. I find his struggle with achieving the one foot position in their one arm rotational this season a bit scary, but that's more him than her. Sara is a good liftee.
"Hardly any assist compared to the Shibs and HD https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9AGwWTJNtYY#t=161"
There is comparable assist. He is applying force under her leg to lever her up there. I don't feel that's a bad thing at all in this case, but it's there.
"This is hoisted? https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1hztdMjbkpg#t=50"
..... The other examples that have formed the bulk of this discussion.have involved the women performing a significant transitional movement. She is simply picked up off the ice into a simple position. This is solid senior-level technique in what way?
"This woman is pushed into position by her partner? https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1hztdMjbkpg#t=235"
This gives a better view. http://youtu.be/yKrGsf7MqsI?t=3m53s
The entrance is definitely on the messy side but she does rotate with assistance into position. But she sure gets locked into that first position and then it's flail and cling city from there. I understand why you're focusing on entrances in response to the discussion thus far, but this lift as a whole is cringeworthy.
2:48 last part
Delete“I can't even begin to understand how the examples given by 7:26 are *not* hoisting, yet THESE lifts *are* hoisting? ... "
You've made a case that Team Montreal's entrances aren't "more hoisting than not" when judged on that alone, but there are still some pretty big problems with P/C and P/O's technique. It ended up being the thread of discussion at first, but it’s not something that can be considered in isolation.
But to finish up the entrances discussion for my part - many of your examples are either too simple or different for it to mean a whole lot in the favour of those teams in contrast with the examples of H/D, P/I and the Shibs that you feel are actual hoisting. You say you agree with 8:32 - then what makes those examples hoisting (or no wait, "literally throwing" the women)?
That question isn't sufficiently answered by providing examples where the woman is simply picked up, or where the entrance is something that can’t be called hoisting even when not executed well. It's not about what type of lift looks kinda like hoisting to you. If a transitional movement where the women does a vertical rotation around the axis of the man's shoulders is done with proper technique, as the examples were, then it's not hoisting. Likewise, a woman being lifted directly but cleanly in a complex hold like the Shibs lift is not hoisting, nor is it less difficult than a messy transitional movement where the woman is locked into place upon arrival.
"The attacks on the DL teams here come off as mostly exaggerating and making shit up, and are as agenda driven as most of the crap spouted on FSU."
This is where Team Montreal ubers really show their ass, what gall. You liked the discussion here when it meant your team was good. Now you're just pissed that this time we aren’t going to write your case for you.
I love how valid critiques of a team's skating and lift technique is considered "an attack." Good grief, 6:43. Grow up.
Deletehttp://potatoholic.tumblr.com/post/105104733183/i-think-its-interesting-to-note-that-n-their
ReplyDeleteDW fans doing the most and rewriting history to make up excuses for why their junior record is so poor compared to VM's. More of the "they worked so hard and kept improving." So did every other non-injured team in the field. I usually never go through their tags or threads but do DW fans deny the brilliance of Carmen?
Okay I'm still mad about Sochi..what the?!
Deletelmao @ assnetwork trying to sweep the collusion under the rug http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2014/12/19/104486256
ReplyDeleteBest performance and flawless are words that shouldn't ever be used to describe them. They suck ---who sucks worse though DW or CB?
DeleteShameful coverage of the GPF by CBC. Brenda Irving had to remind us several times that the "great Virtue/Moir never won the GPF". No idiot, they won several times on the ice where it counted, but weren't allowed to wear gold medals because of corruption.
ReplyDeleteTheir commentary of P/C was just theater this, theater that, blah, blah, nothing about the actual skating.
Kurt at his idiotic best today; as they analzying the split rotational of the Shibs' FD, he told us that that was a variation of D/W's rotational...the "one that helped them win the Olympic gold medal."
I can't even with that.
Kurt has sold his soul to the isu
DeleteCalm down. Do you think a commentator is going to say that a team "won several times on the ice where it counted, but weren't allowed to wear gold medals because of corruption"? You understand that there are rules about being too political right? It sucks but you don't need to over analyze everything a commentator says just because you're bitter.
DeleteAlso, Ice dance isn't just about skating, its says right in the title: dance. So if a team is able to convey the spirit of dance and the passion of it through expression then good for them. They're one of the few teams left that can even do that, which is I'm sure one thing you admired in V/M. You're probably just mad that P/C won over the Shibs; a team that doesn't even look animated during their FD.
And about that lift: I'm pretty sure the reason Kurt made that comment was because that lift was made "iconic" by D/W since they used it so many times and it was a nice lift. In comparison, the one the Shibs do isn't as good. Every time I see it, I can't help but think D/W lift. Seriously Marina needs to pay her team some respect and attention by creating new material for them, not retreads of past programs she's created. You know what one of the biggest critiques of the Shibs FD has been? That it looks too much like D/W's Die Fledermaus. And that lift is a big example.
It's adorable that P/C ubers are modeling their hissy fits after the D/W ubers that used to hang out here.
Delete"Also, Ice dance isn't just about skating, its says right in the title: dance"
It's skating-related criteria that accounts for the vast majority of where the score is supposed to come from. The amount of time the commentators spend talking about other things just shows how the sport is a joke. It shouldn't be in the Olympics if theatre is a talking point.
"So if a team is able to convey the spirit of dance and the passion of it through expression then good for them. "
...... Huh? If this is why people valued V/M, they missed the entire damn point. If people are going to criticize the Shibs over *animation*, it also shows they missed the point. V/M were gifted performers, but it was their SKATING first and foremost, followed by dance TECHNIQUE, followed by their ability to perform the character and rhythms of SPECIFIC dance styles. That's their legacy. Not vague nonsense about "the spirit and passion of dance". It was their mastery of technique that made them special. If people enjoyed V/M for entertainment reasons and like P/C on the same basis, that's fine, but it says absolutely nothing about why P/C should have beaten the Shibs.
"that lift was made "iconic" by D/W since they used it so many times and it was a nice lift"
Apparently both you and Kurt can't tell split rotationals apart. The Shibs don't use D/W's iconic split rotational (up resting on his shoulder). Up until this competition, they used the rotational from the combo lift in Scherz, which is a much different position, which D/W only used in the one program to my knowledge and which other teams have used before D/W. For the GPF, the Shibs changed the position a bit to her facing more towards him and only having the one leg held (which if I'm not mistaken, the Shibs have used before, but I'm not sure on that). I don't love the lift, it's seems a bit awkward, but it's a minor point in an otherwise great program. Tons of teams, including those at lower levels, have used different varieties of split rotaitonals. It's not all the same lift.
"You know what one of the biggest critiques of the Shibs FD has been? That it looks too much like D/W's Die Fledermaus"
Yes, on FSU, that bastion of informed opinions on skating content. The theme is the same, the skating is different. I really don't see much similarity even in the choreography - I think people have trouble seeing beyond "waltz vocabulary" to the actual movements.
Anon 9:46: "You know what one of the biggest critiques of the Shibs FD has been? That it looks too much like D/W's Die Fledermaus. And that lift is a big example."
DeleteDF was a hopping, skipping, non-skated piece of bullshit. There is NO resemblance at all between the two programs.
This is interesting. Advice from a social-media expert. Nothing that hasn't previously been said on this blog. VM have violated every PR rule in the book, especially regarding social media.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/12/22/bill-clinton-needs-some-social-media-help-so-we-asked-an-expert/?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost
Many here have argued that in the end, they don't see any negative repercussions for VM. Maybe. But think of all the really gross pictures (along with the gross implications) out there from their sham. Never to be erased from the public domain. This is what these bozos *choose* to put out there. For instance, ex-sham-gf Cassandra Hilborn chooses to keep some sham pictures public. Of the many many pictures to choose from, one they (presumably it's not only on her, but a joint decision with VM and Co.) choose to keep public is the infamous butt-grabbing picture. Can these people be any more stupid? Apparently not.
https://www.facebook.com/cassandra.hilborn/photos
This is not skating-related, but it's a perfect example of how interviews work, with the interviewee knowing ahead of time what they're going to be asked: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2014/12/23/amy-adams-pulled-today-show-big-eyes/20788535/
ReplyDeleteThank you 12:47. That's a great example.
DeleteIt's astounding more fans don't see the patterns when VM are asked about the off-ice "relationship." Since they were teen-agers, the lead-in has remained the same, as well as the back-and-forth questions/answers, in spite of the fact many many times these pre-arranged narratives contradict other things VM have said or done. Then everyone proceeds to ignore any contradictions.
The fans who buy into their stories are willfully gullible. I don't feel sorry for them.
At this point Scott is downright trolling
ReplyDeletehttps://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/547923510627430401/oTsAVvwQ.jpeg
That kid looks too young to be the child from the first pregnancy unless this is an old photo. To me the child looks about 2 at most 3 years old. At this point little moir would be about 4 years old. The second child would be way too young. It would be about a month at most 2 months. So I don't know whose child this is...
DeleteProbably one of his nieces, the one that we saw at worlds 2013 ( she looked about 1 1/2 years old there ).
DeleteIt still looks like trolling though. He knows very well what it looks like when he's posing with a little girl.
9:16
DeleteIf it's one of the nieces then it's an old picture. Both the nieces are older right now than this little girl.
Trolling indeed.
Does anybody know who the little girl at worlds 2013 was ? One of Scott's sisters in law held her ( with Cassandra in the backround ). She looked too young to be little Moir that's why I assumed she belonged to one of his brothers. And her age matches the girl's in Scott's profile picture.
DeleteIt was brother Danny's little girl, Charlotte.
DeleteDoes anyone know what interview it was that you could hear the crying kid in the background?
ReplyDeleteIt was in an interview after 4CCs 2013 ( it was for CBC, IIRC ).
DeleteThough I am not convinced that the sound we heard really came from their daughter. To me it didn't sound like a child, I'm not even sure it was a human. It sounded more like a dog or something.
It was a kid crying, not a dog.
Delete@10:35
DeleteIt was both. There was the unmistakable sound of a small child crying and ALSO a dog barking. I listened with earphones. I'm absolutely positive about both background sounds.
Still insisting TV popped out another kid lol
ReplyDeleteWow. U r nutso.
She popped out another kid and daddy is off celebrating Christmas in Winnipeg with his fake girlfriend/mistress. I'm not sure how crazy you have to be to still believe the blogger isn't totally psycho.
DeleteI'm just imagining Tessa holding a screaming baby while a toddler runs around making a mess and Scott is running out the door as fast as he can with his suitcase. Maybe he pauses to tell Tessa, "Remember, I'm doing this for our family." And then takes a 5 hour flight to spend time with another woman.
DeleteI wonder if Moirville is happy with the way this KLawes thing makes Scott come across like a trophy wife. Kaitlyn is the one with the career and Scott abandons his entire social life to follow her across the country to visit her, to cheer for her team at competitions. And what does Kaitlyn do for Scott ? Nothing.
DeleteWho says Scott's in Winnipeg with Kaitlyn? He is more then likely in Ilderton with his family.
Delete7:47
Deletehttps://twitter.com/_jaimewong/status/548599673686999040
And Lawes' sister:
https://twitter.com/specialdarrylk/status/547460755302678529
Everyone can interpret how they wish. We know how VM want these kinds of posts to be interpreted.
Did you mean to link to Lawes' sister's thank you to Scott and Kaitlyn for the gift? I don't think there is any misinterpretation going on - I don't care what you believe, it's obvious that Scott is dating Kaitlyn. He was either never with Tessa or they've split up.
Delete8:22 -- 8:06 here -- yes, I did mean to link to the sister thanking Scott and Kaitlyn for the gift.
DeleteWhat, the sister only thanks "Kaitlyn and Scott" by name but all the gifts she surely got from husband and family don't get this same special recognition? Please. It smells deliberate and fake a mile away.
But you're entitled to your interpretation as I'm entitled to see this as ridiculously fake.
Scott sure gets recognised a lot when he's off to see the girlfriend. Same thing with Tessa and the boyfriend.
DeleteI hope they're having fun with their little games because there's absolutely no reason to be doing this other than their own amusement at the cleverness of it all.
The person who tweeted seeing Scott at her store in Winnipeg is a fan. No connection to Moirville, media, SC, or Lawes.
DeleteAnd Lawes' sister made her instagram private now. Definitely the best way to send out fake messages about a fake relationship. By blocking them from the people curious enough to search for it.
The person who claims to have seen Scott says she took a picture with him but for some reason didn't post it despite having a pic of herself on her profile ( it couldn't be for privacy reasons then ). If she's just a fan she probably would have posted it to show her friends that she met him. Yet all we got was a tweet that everybody could have written.
DeleteBecause I know for a fact Tessa and Scott are together (yes, married and with at least one child that's been confirmed), it makes no difference in hell what any tweet or photo in all of social media seems to imply -- if it's implying *anything other* than the real facts. Period.
DeleteVM and all their associates can play these asinine games as much as they want. Sorry -- it does not unmarry Tessa and Scott nor does it make their child disappear. Who btw, born at the end of 2010 or beginning of 2011, makes her a preeschooler, not a toddler.
They could be divorced though. That would unmarry them. Not that I'd want that to be the case but you can't deny it's a possibility.
DeleteThey've learned to tone down the OTT propaganda with Jessica, which makes Kaitlyn more believable as a girlfriend. Still, they can't help themselves and always end up being too obviously fake to anyone who cares to look at the general patterns of social media mentions.
DeleteTeam VM knows exactly how to manipulate fans and they buy it hook line and sinker. The generous sprinkling of "proofs" that VM aren't together will depress fans a bit, but they'll eventually reach a certain level of acceptance. Then when the shows start and VM are making out on the ice they'll get confused, start thinking there's a chance, only to be brought down again by another "proof". And so on ad infinitum.
It's depressing.
12:31. If that makes you feel better or think you're being rational. Whatever.
Delete*Rolleyes*
1:13 haha very true !!! you described the situation perfectly !!! klawes is fake like cassandra
ReplyDelete3:34 true too !! What she did for him? nothing
I hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. At least for part of 2015 - VM are actually scheduled for Stars on Ice - Japan, Art on Ice and Stars in Ice - Canada. It's a bit of bummer for the US fans that it appears that they will never get a chance to see VM live - no thanks to IMG politics...on the US Stars on Ice tour this year...ah well at least they get to see Patrick Chan and Joannie Rochette and no doubt when Weaver/Poje retire - they will be invited to the US tour...but I digress...
ReplyDeleteAs for the future - I don't think VM are coming back to competitive skating...mainly due to Tessa - I don't think she has the desire to go back to the grind...and that's fine...but it would be nice if by June 2015 - they announce their retirement...if I had to guess Scott already knows this and well it has to be hard for him on some sort of level because they were still performing at such a high level...
Who knows what the future holds for Scott - but in a way I am torn on whether he should stay involved in skating via coaching or whether he should break away completely and just be Scott Moir - guy off the grid, who cares about giving back in his own way etc and goes back to school or learns a trade...We might not see it - but I would imagine that this year has been quite a reflecting period for Scott and like any athlete following retirement - starting a new life/career is not easy....especially when you are not born with a silver spoon in your mouth or you are not well connected....and if he feels comfortable with Lawes and her family and friends well more power to him...just don't end up curling Scott - please...as for Tessa - I still think that she is status oriented and she will continue to market herself on twitter in 2015...it will be interesting to see whether she will follow in her sister's footsteps and continue her education...
I think it's important to remember that we don't know these people...
Deleteimg politics? or USFSA politics? certainly the usfsa wouldn't want a superior team overshadowing their olympic champs
DeleteOC-miss your posts!! Happy holidays!
ReplyDeleteHi anon at 12:11 pm - anon at 8:40 pm here - yes you are correct - definitely USFSA politics in play primarily...so totally agree with your statement...
ReplyDeleteAnd alas today Tessa couldn't stay off instagram/twitter...great self promotional material...about hockey...gotta love the sincerety of first time in ice hockey skates...and basically first time skating on a lake/pond whatever...like she never has held a hockey stick or shot a puck with her brothers etc...its a cute video - but take a step back - its self promotional period and a great way to hit the male demographic.via hockey...also you have to wonder if she has a sponsorship with ScotiaBank since she did post a picture a couple weeks ago with a red Scotiabank winterhat for Hockey Day In Canada and this year's winterclassic game in Washington (the hashtag she used) is being sponsored by Scotiabank...well played Tessa...
On the other hand - Scott played in a charity hockey game in Edmonton earlier this year to benefit canadian war veterans and their families...during the Olympic celebrations in Edmonton - Scott actually laced up a pair of skates and gave lessons...to youngsters....without fanfare...
There is no doubt that the reality show was all Tessa....and there is no doubt that she reads twitter/tumblr....
I think the video will probably end up being related to the sham in some way. I also call bs on her not having worn hockey skate or skated on a pond before.
DeleteThe first thing I noticed about the video itself is that Tessa has edges even in hockey skates. There really is no limit to her talent as a skater.
Pretty sure that voice in the Tessa's hockey viedo was Ryan. And yes, I agree with you. Wonder if 2015 is going to be a ramping of promoting Tessa solo, to brand herself away from Scott, so that she can continue chasing this superficial and narcissitc lifestyle. I assume Scott's middleclass - who would be paying for her head-to-toe designer wardrobe. Better than to go after guys with money like Ryan (blech). Hope we don't see her as a spolit tropy wife as some point down the line.
DeleteTessa is married to Scott. We will not see her as a spoiled trophy wife. Scott and Tessa together are very comfortable financially to say the least. Affording Tessa's taste in clothing is no problem for the two of them.
DeleteWhy does Tessa need a man to pay for her designer dresses/clothing/whatever else she wants when she makes her own money?
DeleteMan if Scotiabank is using Tessa Virtue to promote one of the NHL's biggest annual events they must be desperate. Actually the Winter Classic gets Stanley Cup level ratings in the US so I have a hard time believing they're relying on Tessa to get the message out there. Also that's some pretty subliminal messaging if she was promoting the classic... she didn't even tell us when it's on or what channel or who's playing! I hate when I'm being sold something and can't even figure out what it is. Unlike chocolate milk or uniqlo.
And the charity hockey thing Scott did... the stands were basically empty. Maybe he should have promoted it on twitter so people would have attended and actually given money. Not that it was solely his responsibility to promote the event but it wouldn't have hurt.
And what if Scott doesn't want to keep touring and Tessa does? Promoting herself solo now is the smart thing to do.
6:42. She certainly is paying attention to any mention of her on social media. Her accounts had been silent for some days, but as soon as the tweet was posted of her picture on the side of a bus she was on that immediately. She also frequently tweets in direct response to conversations about her on twitter (from locked accounts, btw).
DeleteWe can't know her real motives but whatever they are, on her social media accounts she comes across shallow and self-serving. I get the impression iit's not the real her. How bizarre that she prefers to portray this plastic, fake persona instead of the real Tessa.
Look at any given program of theirs, their love is rock solid.
Delete9:49 give me a break. Tessa's social media personality is fake and pandering. It doesn't represent their life together or that their marriage is on the rocks. Scott and Tessa compliment each other very well. They can have their individual interests while still being together. They aren't retired either so they can still decide to skate competitively if they choose.
DeleteJust because Tessa's social media output is fake or forced doesn't mean that this isn't the lifestyle she'd prefer to have.
DeleteMaybe this fake Tessa isn't all that fake after all and maybe this is who she wants to be.
None of us knows the real Tessa.
And people change. What was right for Tessa five years ago might not be right for her any more.
Like I said, being cuddly on the ice doesn't say anything about their real relationship.
This blog always looked down on the shipping fan girls but the people posting here are actually the biggest shippers of them all.
Somewhat of a tangent - yes, Tessa is obviously able to afford her clothing and lifestyle. However, I've always had the niggling sense that Kate Virtue doesn't approve of Scott (not skating-wise obviously!), but as a life partner. She seems focused on appearances and status and may not think Scott is "good enough" or elite enough for her daughter. Would probaby prefer someone stable finacially who's able to take Tessa to galas, internation travel, etc. I don't get this feeling from the familly members. Somethig about Kate just rubs me the wrong way.
DeleteHow could fans possibly know if Kate doesn't approve of Scott, what Scott should do with his life, etc.? These people are strangers.
DeleteThat sounds like fanfic. No one knows what they think. Tessa's always been determined and decisive though.
DeleteObviously I have no clue as to their actual relationship, and perhaps Kate is more reserved in general. But her interactions with Scott that we're able to see seem frosty to me.
DeleteThis is anon at 6:42 pm. Anon at 8:54 pm - I agree with you that Tessa Virtue can afford her own lifestyle. And yes perhaps there is a possibility that Scott or Tessa may not want to skate in shows indefinitely for whatever reason. Those of us who have followed VM since at least 2010 have known that Tessa would always be more marketable than Scott for a variety of reasons. And yes first and foremost they are individuals. But like anon at 9:04 pm - I agree that her social media accounts come off as self-serving. It's not obvious at first but when you see the trend - it's hard not to unsee it. There is an agenda.
ReplyDeleteAs for life goals etc - athletes including Olympians have lived a fairly sheltered life. And it shows when you look at their social media accounts.
Anon at 10:57 pm here - my new year's resolution is to hit the "ignore" button when it comes to social media output in general. I will focus on the positive - ie VMs skating..and enjoy it for what it is...here's hoping to a more peaceful 2015...
ReplyDeleteEven the crazy blogger abandoned this trainwreck.
ReplyDelete10:16
DeleteI don't understand why you're here of this place is a crazy trainwreck.
@3:22 my thoughts exactly
DeleteLOL 10:16 no kiddn
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't see how Tessa's social media output is self-promotional. Pond hockey and skiing in some non-descript location aka not getting a kickback for mentioning a resort. She was mentioned in a few end of the year type articles but didn't post any herself. The only thing has been the Real Style Network bus tweet but hey, it's a small magazine and can use the advertising. Also she posted a lot from her Strong magazine shoot but I got the feeling she just loved the photos, thought she looked good, and wanted to share. People seem to take issue with the fact that SHE thinks she looks amazing in those photos. There's nothing wrong with thinking you look hot.
ReplyDeleteIf you want self-promotion, check out Meryl Davis' instagram. You'll probably end up buying something from Vera Bradley by the end of it though.
But didn't you know, EVERYTHING Tessa does is vile and evil. She doesn't do anything except stalking the internet for posts and fan fiction about herself just so she can screw with fans some more.
DeleteTessa tweets a picture of a magazine cover that features her : she's trying to market herself as single, far away from Scott.
Tessa posts a picture of herself with Scott : she's just trying to keep the hopes of her fans up only to have the opportunity to crush them later.
Tessa tweets too much : she's annoying and self-observed.
Tessa doesn't tweet : she's arrogant and doesn't care about her fans.
Whatever she does, it's always wrong simply because she's Tessa.
If you want to follow a self-obsessed, shallow athlete who ignores her fans I suggest you check out McKayla Maroney's instagram. That girl can give you a headache.