This "feet only" post is brought to you by this instagram of Tessa:
I know there's a method to Tessa's instagram aesthetic (pregnancy), but what she does with her face on instagram, not only in this image, but in previous images, is getting a little:
Is she gonna start shooting botox into her face by 30? Stuff implants into her cheeks? She seems to be a fan of the look.The profiles and full faces she's instagramming don't even look like her.
If we didn't already know that Tessa herself doesn't believe a word that comes out of her mouth, or posted on her instagram:
Sure honey. Do as I say, and all that. She'll still be coming out with sound bites like that one when she starts injecting her face and lips. She'll be one of those who thinks the work is subtle. To perfectionist Tessa, "imperfection" = any physical sign that you're a human being and not a store mannequin.
And finally:
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| Ha ha |
Feet only.
Let's look at the skating skills gold standard, Davis & White.
Now let's look at Paul/Islam - those inferior ice dancers who are so subpar, Tanith Belbin pretty much thinks they should hang it up. She shrugged them off - not much they can do but practice if they want to improve.* But even that might be a waste of time
Paul Islam:
I LOVE how the Eurosport guys begin by saying we're seeing an improved level of skating skill in P/I, and particularly praise the intricate use of hold during the circular step sequence, as well as the difficult transition in the spin.
So it's settled. In North America, the comment booth is actively trashing actual figure skating, most notably via the public propoganda-ing of Tanith Belbin, who last season waxed patronizing about gliding on an edge, and who this season informs us that intricate changes of hold in a step sequence indicates inferior skating skills. The more you skate, the worse of a skater you must be. We'll be hearing a lot of that in the next quad. "Eh, there was too much skating in this program. The dancers were too close together in the step sequence." We all know that Tanith was the last word in skating skills when she was competing. She dragged Ben Agosto to that silver medal in Torino.
My loves, the Shibs:
The Shibs are in the Virtue Moir zone. If they make a visible error or glitch, they lose, while a crap team like Chock and Bates are treated as if their multiple deficiencies, sloppiness, missed key points and two-footing are features, not bugs. Look at them stay on their feet the whole program! They're incredible!
Papadakis and Cizeron.
They have the (non-ballroom) look, so it's the express-track to the podium. Papadakis tends to begin a stroke or step on a shallow edge or flat and then lean in. There are places where the difference between her depth of edge and his are absolutely glaring. They're side car-ing as much as Gille Poirier.
If a give competition doesn't have an ice dance team where both are deficient, then the judges default to favoring a team where one is deficient. The judges (actually the ISU) seems to shrink from rewarding teams where both are good.
Cappellini and Lanotte:
Setting aside his fall at the beginning, they're just uneven. SHE's just uneven. I love their musicality. They skate reasonably close together (blades and bodies) at times. She carries herself well in space. But she's still hit and miss getting her edges in, getting any consistent run of blade.
I struggle with
We all can see that jutting your butt out behind you and using the "tent" shape as the model for alignment in hold is becoming the standard (connect at arms and chest, jut your butt out so your feet, pelvis, legs and blades are distant. The connection up top helps leverage each partner away from the other so the blades don't wander too close.). A male with solid skating skills lashed to a partner with weak skating skills = a high scoring team. A team where both are crap will also score well if the choreography strips any skating from their program.
Most of all, it's very clear that if you skate too much, your scores will suffer. I never thought the day would come where a discipline that was principally about skating, has become the discipline where skating is most discouraged.
________________________________
*Mitch Islam to Alex: "Why didn't we think of that! We should train!"
Go look at Elisha's selfies on her instagram (or just google her) to understand Tessa's facial pose.
ReplyDeleteIt's not her pose, it's the scale of her face, and the proportions of her face, and the relation of her features to her face. She actually isn't echo-ing Elisha - Elisha looks more human.
DeleteAnd the extreme artificiality of the images once she's done with them. Her idea of looking good = looking plastic.
DeleteShe completely reshapes her lower face. She turns herself into what Tina Fey used to say was the photoshop endgame - a face as blank as a paper plate but with huge eyes and puffy lips. Tessa is narrowing her jawline and slicing off her midface to way way past the point she is when she's not pregnant. I'm just thinking one day these tweaks will be real and next thing you know she'll be Meg Ryan by age 35, thinking she looks natural.
Delete:( Would hate to see Tessa join the ranks of famous women who have ruined their gorgeous faces.
DeleteSo would I. But her photoshop output has been an eye-opener. I'm hoping it's just a necessity-is-the-mother-of-invention situation. To wit, her face is fuller, likewise her body (obviously) and some of the fixes (aspect ratio and warp) create Barbie-esque proportions, so maybe Tessa's just working with it to make her face work with her (extremely) distorted body. When you use aspect ratio to make yourself look thinner, very soon you're no longer in human proportion, and lots of Tessa's aspect ratio is extreme. It's possible that these facial chops and distortions are just the easiest way to hack out signs of pregnancy and make it work with the rest of her. OTOH, there are certain consistencies - much smaller jaw and chin line. Synthetic skin. She's using anime as her model and that's unsettling.
Deletehttp://instagram.com/p/tL8qadwQp_/
Deletehttp://instagram.com/p/r5tkQGwQl9/
http://instagram.com/p/m_PmsBwQq9/
Here are better examples of the "Elisha face" Tessa is trying to do. Her chin looks smaller and the lines around her mouth are gone. Also the Tessa/Elisha selfie is taken from an above angle which is the easiest way to make your face look slim if you also angle your face slightly downward. I'm not saying Tessa's pose doesn't make her face look slimmer but it's just the pose.
And filters make the average woman look like she has smooth, even skin. They'd make (someone like) Tessa's skin look unreal.
Just about all of Tessa's own social media output has attempted to slice her jaw and chin and devolumize her mid and lower face. Not just to eliminate any pregnancy bloat, but to change the proportions completely vis a vis her non-pregnant face. What "pose" she's using, what "filter" she uses only reinforces the point. Tessa is projecting a face she apparently wants to have, not the face she has, pregnant or not pregnant. That ideal is minimal face. It's maximum the "desirable" features - eyes and lips. Sharp cheekbones. Other than that, erase as much as you can. That's what she's doing with filters and photoshop. Pregnancy seems to be an excuse. When she's no longer pregnant, what is she going to do? The cosmetic surgeon?
DeleteWho cares though if Tessa wants to have that face? What does that have to do with the sham?
DeleteThe majority of the population (who use sm) use some posing or filter use to look their most attractive when putting images out on their own social media, it's the norm. Another "excuse" is that she's hanging out with a friend who has a signature facial pose and she's just messing around. In the photo right after Tessa has no problem posting a picture with a fuller face and chin.
Delete5 minutes ago this blog argued that Tessa doesn't have body image issues and only photoshops her pics to hide a pregnancy but now all of a sudden Tessa is so insecure about her looks that she'd run to a surgeon ?
DeleteI'm saying that Tessa is manipulating her image to conceal her pregnancy, and is apparently using that as an excuse for some facial tweaks. For the most part, I get it. The tools she uses to distort her body create a lack of proportion that might be highlighted if she left her face alone, so she does it to her face as well (very narrow at the jaw, chin, wider at the eyes, forehead). But with the Elisha selfie, her body isn't visible and her chest/shoulders are concealed by a scarf, yet she's still hacked off her jaw and diminished her chin, and completely obliterated facial lines, unlike Elisha, who left in a few. I'm wondering what that means for the future.
DeleteShe also totally hacked off the left side of her face in the black dress selfie.
DeleteAre you trolling or have you never done a kiss face in the mirror and seen your checkbones magically appear and your cheeks disappear? I feel dumb writing out this comment because that face is so common as are the effects.
DeleteNo, it's not a kiss face by itself that creates this effect, see the previous post (black dress, where the left side of her face is hacked off, and this post).
DeleteAnd learn to see. If you can't, there's not much to be done.
Ah you said selfie so I assumed it wasn't the full body shot that clearly isn't a selfie. I was referring to this pic http://instagram.com/p/vWumtxlVCQ/ which also isn't a selfie but at least focuses on her face.
DeleteSame to you though. I'm skeptical about everything vm do and say despite not believing the blog (and yes I know believing has no bearing on reality but I don't have sources and public record hasn't convinced me) so I do have an open mind about this stuff. No one has come forward saying they have first hand knowledge or reports from sources of a pregnancy so I think it's arrogant to claim it as fact.
Tessa Virtue has been photographed and video'd and filmed from just about every angle under the sun hundreds and thousands of times for more than ten years and not until this summer/fall did camera angles turn her into an anime face and entirely change her chin line - giving her a tiny chin, proportionate to her face, her face shape, and her jawline. This is not about camera angles.
DeleteThis is also the first time Tessa has put out her own media/photos so of course she's going to post pictures that show her in the best way. Even the most secure person does this. She just posted an actual selfie where you can't see her body and she didn't manipulate her face. If this ps was consistent then I'd have an easier time believing it but Tessa doesn't seem to have a problem releasing pics with a fuller face/jaw/chin.
DeleteSo IOW, you believe that Tessa shrinking her jaw and chinline into cartoon proportions = showing herself in the "best way"? Really?
Deleteoc
Besides the selfie with Elisha, what other photos show Tessa with this "cartoonish" jaw and chinline? It's the "Elisha face" pose and Tessa did not use ps to alter her face.
DeleteAnd you ignored the rest of my comment, why didn't Tessa shrink her jaw and chinline in her recent snow selfie?
And I mean that when you're in charge of releasing images of yourself, one tends to make sure they're looking attractive. She looks attractive- on a whole. I wasn't measuring her forehead to chin ratio when I made that assessment.
Just finished watching CBC's coverage of Cup of Russia ice dance...man, Chock/Bates are painfully slow and labored.
ReplyDeleteI did a double-take when Kurt criticized their flailing arms and Carol the first lift, that there was nothing difficult about the position. I didn't think criticism of shitty teams was allowed.
His mind must have wandered. Don't worry, he'll make up for it.
Delete"I LOVE how the Eurosport guys begin by saying we're seeing an improved level of skating skill in P/I...."
ReplyDeleteYeah, but considering only the Chinese teams had skated so far (since P/I were 5th in the SD hahaha), the comment doesn't have all the meaning it should have, although I suppose we should be thankful it was pointed out at all that they're better than the first three.
Also, considering the same guys called the knee action sublime when P/C had only been actually skating for about 20 seconds, get breathless about how fantastic the skating sills are, and then end with this http://youtu.be/PF0Yesb2LNo?t=4m31s , I won't be putting my expectations too high on the British commentary either this season. But yes, Tanith's trash talking is another level.
On the hand though, like 12:22 pointed out, Carol is probably the most honest commentator so far this year, I definitely wouldn't have predicted that. Carol and Kurt also praised P/I's FD in very specific, accurate terms. I was very surprised.
Deleted two posts due to either lack of common sense (the benefit of the doubt interpretation) or purposeful mischaracterization (the likeliest characterization). When Tessa Virtue publishes a photo of herself built like Dakota Fanning age 13 one day, built like J. Lo the second day, and slicing chunks off her face the third day, sudden-onset body dysmorphia isn't the problem. Manipulation is.
ReplyDeleteHowever, duly noted that there are fans who prefer to believe that Tessa is suffering from a psychological disorder rather than believe she's manipulating fans - or pretending to manipulate fans.
DeleteI think it's extremely likely that these comments object to the banner because it puts Tessa's wild manipulations on parade, and not because they believe that Tessa has body image issues that abruptly manifested themselves AFTER two Olympic quads, but, oddly, never during, when the pressure on female skaters is the greatest.
DeleteOC 4:16
DeleteRight. Not only did Tessa never show body image issues at times of extreme stress during skating seasons, she's never shown issues during those summer months/months of "rest", when so many people claim that's when she (and all other elite athletes of the world) struggle with their weight.
Tessa has never shown weight struggles NOR these body-morphing issues. It's only now, and during 2010 when she was also pregnant.
As soon as the pregnancy is history she will be back to her normal body, with no issues. I'm inclined to think the pregnancy is already history but so recent that her body is not yet back to normal.
When did she pop this baby out? They've been in the public eye pretty consistently since Oct 18th.
DeleteI really really REALLY want all these people who claim that skaters gain weight in the off seasion to provide an example besides Tessa Virtue in 2010 and 2014. Tessa virtue in "late" 2011 (not spring/summer, when her body was still rebounding), 2012 and 2013 would serve. Since I can remember Scott has ALWAYS put on weight an added muscle every summer and he's wasp waisted by Worlds. His weight gain is strategic, not slacking off. It's putting fuel in the tank. When a team is learning a new program, getting it into their bodies, it's more work than when they've got it. They're figuring out what they're using and what they're not.
DeleteWho else "gains weight" in the off season? Particularly women. Tatiana Volosozhar? Nope. Kaitlyn Weaver? Nope nope nope. Kristen Moore Towers - if anything, she leans up and tones up in the off season.
Tessa Virtue "gaining weight" in the off-season TWICE in her entire career - after 2010 when she had a baby, after 2014 when she was pregnant with her second child - is touted as an example of every other skater in the off season or recently retired. NONE of the people who claim this can point to any other skater, dancer, who gains weight in the off season. Tessa "gains weight" after every Olympic quad, suddenly this is what every ice dancer does every summer. Fans.
This isn't an off season for Tessa, she's pretty much retired. That's a huge difference. She never stopped training in the off seasons so comparing Tessa in 2013 to Tessa in 2014 doesn't make much sense. This year she spent too much time off the ice attending all these events and what not.
DeleteTessa's weight ever since post 2008 wasn't her natural weight, she worked hard to lose these pounds to stay slim. It would only be normal for her to gain weight once she doesn't follow her strict work out and diet schedule.
Right, so Tessa has packed on the pounds, and Scott is pretty much exactly as she has been every summer and fall. Furthermore, Tessa is "crushing her workouts" per Maria Mountain. Furthermore, Tessa is instagraming images that radically transform her face, leg line and shoulder line. What part of "retired" works with that?
DeleteAnd what makes Marina Mountain a credible source ? You never get tired to inform us how everything VM and VM related sources put out on social media is a hoax, how all of them are involved in shamming and lying but all of a sudden Maria Mountain's tweet speaks the truth ?
DeleteSo, 11:47PM - you believe "weight gain", not pregnancy, accounts for several of the images posted in the banner? And she's compensating by morphing other photos to make herself look like she's got Giselle Bundchen's body?
DeleteSeriously 5:30pm. In the public eye routinely since Oct. 18 so there is no time for her to have had the baby, she's never had a day off? Days off? Week off? Not ever since October 18? How much time do you think it takes to have a baby? It's not Victorian times when the woman goes into seclusion for a month.
DeleteI know Tessa is hardcore and could probably give birth and get back on skates the next day, let alone rock up for some charity/promotional thing, but I'm assuming she'd like to spend some time at home after having a baby. And there are gaps in the schedule where she could definitely have done that. What has been striking me these last few appearances is how tired Scott looks....new baby and a toddler will do that for you ;-)
DeleteWell, in 2010 they popped out Little Moir and were back in training just as soon as they got the all clear.
DeleteThe stuff they're doing doesn't take up as much time as you might think. How many parents get to just shut everything down and hibernate? A schedule like Scott and Tessa's is pretty sweet. Do an appearance once a week or so.
The most time they've had off is 7 days so the kid had enough foresight to be born toward the beginning of the week and not the day before their next event. How like its parents to be so prepared and responsible. Poor Tess though, having to sit in the cold meeting fans while bleeding and cramping. At least she's looking rested lately. So yeah I know it's physically possible but it would really suck. And it's really nice of KLawes to come give her congrats right after though, maybe she's the new babysitter.
DeleteYou've heard of elective Caesareans, or babies being induced 1:22?
DeleteShe doesn't look well rested to me.
DeleteOf course I have. It still seems implausible someone would utilize either of those options to make it to a mall signing though.
DeleteTS have done loads of implausible things to further their desired narratives, they seem to have skewed priorities with nothing off-limits.
Delete*rolls eyes* Why would the mall signing have to be connected to the induction/scheduled C? Why is it so hard to imagine that the signing took place after the delivery and it just happened to work with Tessa's schedule?
DeleteFor anyone who thinks that Tessa has already given birth, when did this happen? Are they now toting an almost 4 year old and a newborn around to all these events they've been doing? I don't understand it.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, I don't understand what you don't understand. Set aside that Scott and Tessa deliberately fuck with their schedule, what exactly is difficult about "toting" a baby (if she's had the baby) and a small child to these events? Explain what's so impossible. They're poor, so they can't pay anybody to mind the children while they do their public jobs? They'd be busted by airlines, trains, etc. Sure. Like all celebrities are busted every day. Pregnant women need weeks before and after before they can get out of bed?
DeletePlease specify the part you don't understand.
since when did this blog become a tessa hate blog jw
ReplyDeleteDid it bother you whenever blog post bashed Scott? Do you see WHY the blog's focus has shifted to Tessa? Do you think it's proactive, or reactive?
Delete611 : its always been a TV hate blog. Not new. The skatig commentary is the facade. Real blog = tesss virtue hate blog
DeleteThe blog has always focused on their social media and p.r. output. Lately, that's been Tessa. For the first three years of the blog, Scott was the face of the sham, and plenty of posters in the comments section wondered why I never considered that Tessa might be making him do this, or why would Tessa allow Scott to do what he does, or in other ways requesting the blog acknowledge Tessa bears just as much responsibility as Scott. However, Scott's face and name was on the sham stuff we got, so that's the stuff the blog talked about. How it came across, whether or not a particular sham maneuver hit its target or overlooked something, and more and more, how dumb ass the entire thing started looking. The blog and others here look at the p.r. and social media stuff, knowing the facts, that they're actually married parents. Therefore the social media stuff is lies.
DeleteWhen/if Tessa goes back to the background and Scott takes up the sham banner, the blog will focus on Scott. It's about the messages and images they're putting out in public.
I want to repeat this from the Canadian Socity of Public Relations:
"Within that context, members of the Canadian Public Relations Society adhere to the CPRS Code of Professional Standards, our Code of Ethics. This Code states among its clauses that:
1.A member shall deal fairly and honestly with the communications media and the public.
2.A member shall practice the highest standards of honesty, accuracy, integrity and truth, and shall not knowingly disseminate false or misleading information.
Like other professions – journalism, medicine and law, for instance – public relations is fraught with ethical dilemmas. This is evident when our role as outspoken advocate seems at odds with our role as organizational conscience. We maintain the delicate balance between client needs and the collective good by working in unison with other professional counsel, the media, and the public, all of whom benefit from open, honest, multi-directional communication."
Clearly, the Canadian Society of Public Relations doesn't endorse marketing lies, any lies. Not, these are okay, these are not. The sorts of lies Scott and Tessa and their friends and associates energetically and aggressively put out there are damaging the public trust BECAUSE they're LIES, period, and it doesn't matter what sort of lie, and furthermore, Scott and Tessa don't have any entitlement that waives their responsibility to be ethical in their public relations.
My impression is it's quite difficult to become a member of the Canadian Society of Public Relations. Clearly absolutely nobody who has worked for or with Scott and Tessa adhere to any standard of p.r. ethics whatsoever, let alone the standards set down for its memebers by the Canadian Society of Public Relations.
Just want to say this: the day when tessa or scott announce their engagement/marriage to someone that isn't eachother you will all look like idiots.
ReplyDeleteOC, I know you have more than enough to write about, but I think this post and the whole thread it is a part of are worth an entry: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/the-great-zueva-not-so-great.93773/#post-4380888
ReplyDelete"Sometimes fans have more perspective than federations and skaters."
Ah yes, Igor the technical master. That's totally what I think of when I see his star team C/B, just completely on top of the technical things.
DeleteAh, I notice whenever a new blog header goes up the tumblr-ites come back out in full force spouting their nonsense about the blog being delusional and proving themselves to be utterly delusional in the process. It's always good for a laugh.
ReplyDeleteThe comments on that FSU thread posted above are typical and ridiculous. I wonder if ice dance has ever been a credible sport. I don't think it can be if/when politics and outright corruption play a central role in results, and that's been exactly what's happened throughout its history.
I think sometimes the tumblr-ites are just protecting their investment/turf (a site devoted to speculation about Scott and Tessa's romantic lives separately, and "fingers crossed" together one day, one hopes. If not - bff forever in a way that means more than any love interest would understand!) And that's it. As with most fan rage, it's about fan entitlement.
DeleteOne does question why there's a clutch of fans dedicated to assaulting a blog that is
Delete1. absolutely crazy
2. full of fake anonymous commentary written by the blogger him/herself because nobody else participates
3. nobody in their right mind believes.
So it's an isolated crazy person on blogspot.com talking to themselves when they're not putting up nutjob banners created with quasi-inept photoshop, and since nobody believes it, there's really no need to tell everybody the blogger is wrong. Everybody can see that. The only participants here are made up.
And that's why this small group of fans spend hours and hours here every day with their browser open to the blog. Not everybody can live where it's nonstop excitement but you'd think there would be other stuff to do.
""""
DeleteAnd that's why this small group of fans spend hours and hours here every day with their browser open to the blog. Not everybody can live where it's nonstop excitement but you'd think there would be other stuff to do."""""
That's rich coming from you since you have been doing it now for 2 years.
But now that I know who you are , I completely understand why you do it but, not saying I agree with you but,,pot kettle black and that sort of things 1 2 3 delete.....
@12:49 Don't be so vague and spill the beans.
DeleteWow the post hasn't been deleted yet ,seems the blogger is away temporarily because they spend at least 10 hours a days on here and who knows how much other time digging up all the pictures and gossip they can.
DeleteThe bloggers does know skating but they should stick with that, the gossip and lies that are promoted on here only take away and legitimacy they have on skating.
2:59 why should I spill the beans, the blogger won't.
Well, you claim to know the truth and obviously want to make it known, otherwise you wouldn't have posted it here twice so why not just skip the cryptical messages and spit it out ?
DeleteYou shouldn't use the blogger as an example since you don't seem to agree with his/her way of dealing with these kinda things. So why not make it better than the blogger does and just tell the truth ?
6:59 -You do realize that everything you said can apply to the blogger?
DeleteSo why call me out and not the blogger?
@4:51 I already have - as did others - but either the posts get deleted or the blogger throws a tantrum.
DeleteWhy do you keep pointing fingers at others though ? Can't you make your case for yourself ? Why does the bloggers behavior justify you playing chicken ?
If you really have something to say then just say it or don't waste your time posting here.
It makes you look as silly as the blogger.
I have made a case for myself, most of my posts get deleted, strangely enough, my post wasn't here yesterday but here today. Things that make you go hmmm...
DeleteRegardless don't deflect back on me, I am not the issue, what I said was actually meant to let the blogger know I know the real game now. Who else would spend 2 years of their life writing a blog criticizing people daily without any proof other than "my secret sources" Its an obsession .
Don't get me wrong the blogger does know skating and very well but almost everything else on this blog is hogwash and as long as the blogger washes the hogs I will post and so will others.
7:36
DeleteEnlighten us please about knowing the "real game." Let's see -- you say blogger has no proof other than "sources" but you come on here with nothing more than "knowing the game" and you're supposed to be credible?
You forget quite a few other people have said they know for a fact Tessa and Scott are married. They are not related to blogger, have no idea who blogger might be, and yet they also know certain truths about VM, that happen to be the same things blogger has been saying now for three years (not two -- and the number of years does not change the truth).
You also forget the many many details in the last 8 years (at least since VM became seniors) that conclusively point to the truth of not just blogger's claims but others as well. What's claimed here as truth is not some random idea pulled out of someone's ass.
You, however, sound like you're simply pulling stuff out of your ass because you don't like the blog. Whether you like it or not, facts are facts.
My argument is not with you, but I have to wonder why you accept the bloggers sources any more than you would accept mine, neither are showing any kind of proof, biased perhaps?
DeleteAs far as others saying it, there are others also saying it is not true, both camps are speculative, no actual proof.
I have nothing to prove to you, nor do I have any wish to, as I said, the blogger is not as anonymous as they think, detective work and knowing your way around the internet can provide lots of information, knowing code helps too!
You simply sound like you are pulling stuff out of your ass because you don't like what I am saying on the blog.....
So, what do people think of Marina's Russian team, SK?
ReplyDeleteSD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H03XraMiif4
FD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzPYoUiYLhQ
EX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHxqZD280tU
For a first outing as a team, I see potential. I think they're in the same range as I/Z, and that both teams will end up having more to offer than I/K did in.
DeleteI was prepared not to like them but I was entertained by their FD. I think it needs a lot of polishing and Nikita was so OTT and too aggressive with his expression but IA, this team has potential.
DeleteYou have every right to write posts the way you want, OC, so this is just an idea.
ReplyDeleteWould it maybe work for the skating stuff to be posted on different entries than
the Tessa stuff? I get why you want to keep posting about the latter subject (and pretty much agree with you about it) but I'm just very sick of wading through the comments about it that inevitably overhwelm the post, and I wonder if those more interested in the skating topic right now feel the same. But I understand if you have your reasons for doing it this way.
Totally agree with the last posters, the only reason I come here is for the in-depth skating analysis, absolutely zero interest in VM personal lives.
DeleteIt would be great if the two topics were kept separate.
3:36 - the blog has never been about Virtue Moir's "personal lives" but about their lies and manipulations. The blog was about that way before it ever addressed skating.
DeleteFurthermore, I question how "in-depth" the skating analysis on this blog has been. It is via the contributions of others - principally canadablue and iceprincess blogspot - that the skating has been examined with specificity. As it happens, if you know skating at ALL - and knowing a few basics is the work of a weekend, or less - it is extremely easy to perceive that Davis White robbed Virtue Moir in Sochi, and every other time they defeated Virtue Moir. I do, though, want to point out that it's a disservice to pretend that pretty much rudimentary skating knowledge (which the blog possesses) constitutes "in depth" skating knowledge that exposes the corruption in this sport. The "in depth" analysis is not performed by this blog. It's executed by others - canadablue, ice princesssblog, other contributors in the comments section, but certainly not me. What I've got is rudimentary knowledge. That's enough to reveal that this sport is corrupt.
DeleteI totally agree with you at 1:22. I am personally really not interested in the tessa/scott/scam stuff, but I do enjoy reading about your insightful skating analysis. Any way the two things can be kept separate? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteShame on you if you want blogger to separate the topics that are discussed on this blog. That does not help the glaring problem of the misogynist hate that this blog spews, you don't get to turn your head and say "no i don't want to pay attention to that". You are just aiding this persons sick obsession. If you read this blog and actively comment on the lies that this blogger perpetuates as if they're the truth then you are apart of the problem. This blog shouldn't even exist.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think this blog is misogynist ? Scott and various other men have gotten the same treatment as Tessa, Cass, KLawes and Jess.
DeleteLol. All these different strategies to try and shut down this blog.
DeleteWhy don't you all go start your own place where you can bitch to your hearts' content about this blog or whatever else it is you think blogger *should* or *should not* be doing. I am not the blogger but I know enough about the internet/rules of blogging that this place has every right to exist.
You don't like it? Stay away. Such a simple solution to all your hatred and anger toward the blog/blogger.
I'm 1:22, and I just want to reiterate, since it appears I've opened a can of worms, that my suggestion was in no way an attempt to direct what the blogger should write about, just a plea for an easier way to find the skating comments among the various repetitive temper tantrums.
DeleteGuess some folk around here have never heard of Voltaire..or even just basic freedom of speech or the First Amendement
Delete4:39 - what do you not understand about people asking for the skating and personal discussion to be separated? No one is advocating to censor freedom of speech. Does everyone have to be interested in everything written here in order to appreciate the fantastic skating analysis? Calm down.
DeleteI was perfectly calm 1:47 - and my comments were aimed at those who call for the blog to be shut down.
DeleteWell I don't think it comes as a surprise that according to Bal Gosal, MP twitter that Semple is at the GMP in Ottawa...if Klawes was at the event in TO well we had to have balance at have RS in Ottawa...Anyways the guy is an Olympian and a local...but I don't think he had attended previous GMP events like last year following his retirement...
ReplyDeleteBut in general at this point I am more interested in the judging in icedance during this GP season - utterly disappointed...As for Scott - I am hoping that he decides to go back to school in one form or another and have a back-up plan to coaching....I think with the right mentoring - long term he has more potential than Tessa.
New picture of Tessa and Scott :
ReplyDeletehttp://suzygl.tumblr.com/image/102907414835
Tessa needs a make up artist; she always ends up looking like the Joker.
Ok her hips look big like really big
Delete4:41
ReplyDeleteScott already said he went back to school this Fall. Tessa also mentioned it in an interview, that both she and Scott are in school.
They have great potential together -- after they ditch this moronic PR plan to market themselves separately and as if they have separate SO's (which they don't, it's a lie).
They're already a fabulous team, not only in skating. Imagine how much more they will be when they're done wasting time and energy creating faux personas. At the moment, their potential is seriously curtailed because of that, by their own choice.
Is KLawes desperately trying to enter into the skating circle? I follow Kaitlyn Weaver and most of the photos she posts on Instagram Lawes comments on it and calls her "Pretty girl" "Hope all is doing well" like they're friends or something lol To me it looks like she wants attention and wants everyone to notice her as the super cute curler girlfriend of Olympic Champion, she doesn't stay in her sport, she wants more and more. Ughhh
ReplyDeleteMore shapeshifting from Mrs Moir - don't get me wrong, she looks bangin', but don't tell me those T&A is too much chocolate and not enough training......http://instagram.com/p/vkTsuWlVDt/
ReplyDeletelove tessa and scott but those hiphop videos are kind of embarrassing rhytm nation hip hop dancing from the early 90s. man does tessa look like a stiff white girl
Deletethat would be merly
Delete@ 11:10AM please slowly back away from the computer. You're insane if you don't think they just killed it in those clips. Either that or you're actually a jealous DW uber trolling.
Delete11:28: Exactly. Tessa may be a "white girl" but she can actually dance and move her hips unlike most female figure skaters *cough* Meryl Davis*cough*. Plus the girl has killer facial expressions. And you have to give it to Scott too, he ain't no slouch either.
Deleteim 11:10. i LOVE VM. i didnt say she couldnt dance, i said she looks like a stiff white girl. guess who wasnt a stiff white guy? scott moir. he outdanced her here.
DeleteLots of white people are great hip-hop dancers, just like many black people are great ballet dancers. And Tessa and Scott are two white people who have never been stiff in their movements and looked great in that hip hop.
Delete5:30 and 11:10 are perfect examples on how this blog has turned into a tessa hate blog tbh. i think we need a new place to talk about dance and and the corruption of ice dance because some people here cant differentiate between tessa the dancer and tessa the person
DeleteI'm 5.30 and I hate Tessa because I said she looks good? Can you explain how that works?
DeleteHow about we just don't talk about a grown women's body at all?
Delete9:14: Agreed. It's just creepy and reaks of desperation and immaturity.
Delete9:14 & 10:33
DeleteWhen women are pregnant their bodies go through changes. If Tessa has been pregnant it means she's lying about many things. I want to know if VM are lying. Therefore, in that context it's perfectly acceptable to talk about Tessa's body.
It's not hatred. That accusation is just another type of name-calling, trying to shut down the discussion.
"Shut down discussion"? That's rich. Every single comment that doesn't follow the blogger's very particular views about Tessa, Scott, and their sham is deleted. Posts pointing out how Tessa doesn't look pregnant -- same, deleted, deleted, deleted. This blog shuts down discussion more than any other "forum."
DeleteThat is bullshit - read the posts - there are plenty of comments calling the blogger a psycho, screaming for the blog to be shut down, telling us Tessa and Scott aren't married, this is all crazy, etc, etc. And it's pretty ironic saying that this blogs shuts down discussion - this is the ONLY place the Moirs' true status can be talked about. I've seen people in other places, Tumblr for example, dip their toe in the water because what Tessa and Scott are doing, what they say, makes NO sense and as soon as they do that, even voice the slightest doubt, they are slammed so hard you can practically feel the vibrations. I've seen posts deleted, I've seen people turn into born again zealots for the "platonic" storyline. The discussion is shut down - publicly at least - all over the internet.
DeleteRyanSemple and KaitlynLawes both start following Tessa Virtue on instagram, within one day of each other. Practically within hours of each other. Geez, what are the odds?
ReplyDeleteAs ever. VM coordinating their latest plans for hoaxing the public.
I think the narratives and placements are already set in ice dance for TEB, but this preview from IceNetwork today is interesting.
ReplyDeletehttp://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014/11/19/101903042/grand-prix-final-spots-on-the-line-at-bompard
"Ice Dance: A repeat by the French?
"Forget about the hierarchy, forget about who is who -- judge only from what you see," seemed to have been the motto in Shanghai for the Cup of China, where the judges awarded Papadakis and Cizeron with their first gold medal in the Grand Prix. The 2013 world junior silver medalists skated a breathtaking free dance to Mozart's "Adagio" from Concerto No. 23 to claim a victory over Team USA's 2011 world bronze medalists Maia Shibutani and Alex Shibutani, and the 2014 world champions Anna Cappellini and Luca Lanotte from Italy.
The Trophée could have been a good opportunity for Cappellini and Lanotte to reclaim their first-place status after the fall that marred their free dance at Cup of China, but the duo has withdrawn, citing the need to work more on their programs to prepare the rest of their season.
An interesting encounter may take place on the ice of Bordeaux: Team USA's Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue will also have something to prove at Trophée Eric Bompard after their beautiful third-place finish at Cup of China. They are in the same class with Papadakis and Cizeron, and dance in a somewhat similar style. It will be interesting to watch both of them on the same ice, fighting for the same gold medal with totally different programs.
Will Papadakis and Cizeron "strive to go beyond superficial," as they suggested to icenetwork in their Cup of China interview? If they do, they could create a big surprise in Bordeaux, not too far from the Clermont-Ferrand rink where they teamed up on the ice and learned their art.
Canada's Piper Gilles and Paul Poirier won silver at Skate Canada and should also fight for a spot on the podium."
This line is special: "They are in the same class with Papadakis and Cizeron, and dance in a somewhat similar style."
No, HD and PC do not dance in a somewhat similar style. HD are out there actually doing it and PC are sidecar-ing it up.
I cannot take credit for being the first to have this occur to me, but what does same class mean? Are we supposed to consider them equals? Who decides what class a skater is in?
7:47, you would think classification might be based on CoP, but it doesn't appear this is the case anymore.
DeleteI love the "similar style" line. H/D did lyrical better last year, and are now doing an innovative - in the dancing while skating sense of the word - program while being stronger, equal skaters. The contrasts between the teams is what will be interesting to observe this weekend.
I also want to say I find it bizarre that H/D's lyrical/hip hop/Charleston FD has been widely dismissed although the movement was executed very well for early in the season, even more so in practice; that per a recent IDC article by Jacquelyn Thayer they've put a lot of thought and training into combining the dance and skating aspects; and that especially working within the confines of a competitive program, they deserve a lot of credit for trying something so ambitious.
This has been discussed here before, but I do not understand the phenomenon of only being interested in something because V/M do it. In many many things, they are ahead of the pack, but why is that even valuable if someone doesn't appreciate what others teams still do very well? It sometimes seems like V/M fans are very sensitive of other teams getting praise of any sort, or of V/M getting any criticism at all. I think V/M looked great in that clip, it doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. It should be perfectly fine for someone to express that opinion without it being considered hateful. Not every facet of V/M's existence is as clear cut as the V/M vs D/W situation, so sometimes discussion is appropriate and the knee jerk reaction to shut convo down is not.
You guys are trying way too hard to find reasons to tear down PC. Quite comical. If that article were about CB, icenetwork would be saying they're sure to run away with the title. The author is saying HD will fight for a gold medal with PC. I'm an HD fan and ... that's a good thing! PC's CoC score was 12 points higher than HD (I think HD were undermarked), so saying they'll fight for gold is generous (a lot of HD fans have doomsday predictions for TEB). The article could have been written as to imply PC will steamroll to a gold and have no competition whatsoever.
DeleteIt's also fantastic, IMO, that the non-skating team of GP, who actually beat HD at SC, is listed as an afterthought for bronze ("should also fight for a spot on the podium") while HD are listed as gold contenders. HD and PC are both excellent skaters and dancers who are really bringing dance to the ice and I'll be happy with whichever wins.
And some are trying way too hard to deflect legitimate criticism of P/C. It doesn't really matter if the article was more kind to H/D's chances than it could have been. It says H/D and P/C are on par, which is untrue. It treats P/C CoC win as legitimate and a good sign for ice dance, which it wasn't.
DeleteGabriella isn't an excellent skater or dancer, and even Guillaume is overrated vs other teams. Superficial is a good word for P/C's content and execution. It obviously fools a lot of people, but it doesn't have the substance it should for a team of their apparent calibre.
If you disagree with the criticism of P/C, you are free to try to make a case for them. What I find comical is someone claiming the motivation behind the criticism is just about "tearing down" a team. Boy, does that sound familiar... The criticism is in the context of P/C vs other teams, and whether P/C deserve what they've been given, not something against P/C themselves.
Also "I really like both teams, so therefore my opinion that they're equal is trustworthy" was sometimes utilized as a defense of D/W. There is no position that is a default bias-free one. (Just an observation, not meaning to say 4:53 was conciously trying to make this claim.)
Delete" It doesn't really matter if the article was more kind to H/D's chances than it could have been. It says H/D and P/C are on par, which is untrue. It treats P/C CoC win as legitimate and a good sign for ice dance, which it wasn't."
DeleteExactly. That the article was more kind about HD's chances that it could have been doesn't change that it was also being used to spread more of the bullshit, untrue propaganda that permeates all aspects of ice dance right now. Using the CoP that is supposed to function as a uniform yardstick to measure what teams are doing on the ice, HD and PC are not equals. HD are better. PC's win in China was not legitimate. There's nothing good about this. HD and their fans should not be grateful that HD might get to fight PC for gold. HD shouldn't be in the position to fight PC for gold. HD should without question finish ahead of PC because HD are better skaters according to the CoP.
After last season's GPF, there were non-VM fans and others who were surprised that VM fans weren't happy that their scores were closer to DW's than they had been in a long time. VM fans were rightfully livid that VM did not have scores higher than DW and that there were people who had expected them to be happy with that when VM's skating had demolished DW's. By the same principle, I am not happy as an HD fan because they are better and should easily be scoring above PC.
5:30 is correct that the two teams are not equal and PC are not excellent. There are real problems with Gabriella's skating and dancing. Guillaume is overrated. They are using tricks as a team to cover flaws. They do lack the substance that their scores suggest they have. Like DW fans, PC fans want to stick their fingers in their ears and not have a discussion about the ways this team needs to improve.
"7:47, you would think classification might be based on CoP, but it doesn't appear this is the case anymore."
DeleteIf the classification were based on CoP, HD and PC would not be in the same class with each other.
"I love the "similar style" line. H/D did lyrical better last year, and are now doing an innovative - in the dancing while skating sense of the word - program while being stronger, equal skaters. The contrasts between the teams is what will be interesting to observe this weekend."
The contrast will be interesting. HD didn't reinvent the wheel last year with their lyrical FD, but they did do the style better than PC are doing it this year. HD's program was more difficult and better skated. This season, PC's generic lyrical FD is for God knows what reason being called innovative when it's HD's FD that is the most innovative of the year when it comes to the dancing while skating and doing something that is new in ice dance with movement and dance.
"I also want to say I find it bizarre that H/D's lyrical/hip hop/Charleston FD has been widely dismissed although the movement was executed very well for early in the season, even more so in practice; that per a recent IDC article by Jacquelyn Thayer they've put a lot of thought and training into combining the dance and skating aspects; and that especially working within the confines of a competitive program, they deserve a lot of credit for trying something so ambitious."
I do too. When I saw the first FD practice at Skate Canada, I knew there were going to be many people who didn't understand what they were seeing. I did think some of these people would like the program based on music selections and other criteria that fans use that isn't in the CoP and isn't supposed to matter. I did think there would be more VM fans who saw what HD are doing with that program and would appreciate it. With the way VM fans are reacting to the short clips of VM dancing hip hop on the floor, I feel like it is inevitable that at some point after VM's show program debuts that VM fans will call HD's FD a poor imitation of VM's program. It's unfair to HD because they deserve a lot of credit here for being ambitious enough and having the skills to use hip hop the way they are. I love VM's ice dancing. I expect that their show program will be excellent, but they are not the team bringing hip hop to a competition program and they do not deserve the credit and kudos for it.
"It sometimes seems like V/M fans are very sensitive of other teams getting praise of any sort, or of V/M getting any criticism at all. I think V/M looked great in that clip, it doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. It should be perfectly fine for someone to express that opinion without it being considered hateful. Not every facet of V/M's existence is as clear cut as the V/M vs D/W situation, so sometimes discussion is appropriate and the knee jerk reaction to shut convo down is not."
I have also noticed the sensitivity of many VM fans to other teams being praised and to even the slightest hint of criticism towards VM. For a long time now, VM fans have been obsessed with VM's legacy within the sport. To suggest that another team also does something well that VM did well or that another team might have equal ability or close to equal ability with select skills seems to be a trigger. In the ass backwards way that VM fans approach many things, it's as if the teams whose skating patterns the most after VM's when it comes to following the CoP and innovation in the dancing while skating sense are the teams that incur the most wrath. Have people decided that skating well and innovating are the proprietary domains of VM and that any other team that attempts these things are encroaching upon that territory and diminishing VM's legacy?
"5:30 is correct that the two teams are not equal and PC are not excellent. There are real problems with Gabriella's skating and dancing. Guillaume is overrated. They are using tricks as a team to cover flaws. They do lack the substance that their scores suggest they have. Like DW fans, PC fans want to stick their fingers in their ears and not have a discussion about the ways this team needs to improve.”
DeleteI’m not sure tricks is the right way to word it, because they’re not a DW/GP/CBs. Although there are sections of their programs that are smart in hiding their deficiencies, I see it more as they’re doing a watered-down/sluggish version of what stronger teams are doing, more along the lines of a C/L. But that means they are certainly being overpraised and overrated. The weaker good team being help up is still wrong.
“In the ass backwards way that VM fans approach many things, it's as if the teams whose skating patterns the most after VM's when it comes to following the CoP and innovation in the dancing while skating sense are the teams that incur the most wrath.”
I agree. It often seems like the teams closest to V/M in the fundamental things are the ones that are the most dismissed and disliked.
I’ve been avoiding the boards for my own sanity, but earlier in the fall there was this one poster on Goldenskate, who last season was one of the most active V/M defenders/ D/W criticizers. This season - P/C were the best by far at CoC, P/I’s FD is juniorish and they’re so bad a junior couple could do it even better, the Shibs are “not dancers”, skate “with no amplitude” and are not skating a real paso.
It seems like a lot of people have learned to speak convincingly about the differences between D/W and V/M (most of them likely getting the info from here) while having a narrow understanding at best of the broader concepts and/or a reluctance to apply these concepts uniformly when deciding which teams have merit. The way people on these boards trust their general impressions and wishes without really checking carefully if they're accurate is amazing. Maybe these people would rather things went back to 6.0, even though V/M were the embodiment of CoP skating.
"Have people decided that skating well and innovating are the proprietary domains of VM and that any other team that attempts these things are encroaching upon that territory and diminishing VM's legacy?"
DeleteYes, and it's fucking ridiculous. V/M's "legacy" (if it can be defined yet) is that they are technically precise skaters who can literally do anything, and skate any rhythms, on their blades.
There are teams out there in ice dance who also possess great skill and who, in a lesser sense, can do some of the things well that V/M also do well. In a real sport, those teams would also be applauded. But ice dance is not a real sport, it's an assbackwards mess. That's why so many clueless V/M fans attack and belittle the skating of the very teams who are following in V/M's footsteps by possessing technical skills and putting them on display on the ice. Only in a sport watched by more than a good share of dipshits would the willfully ignorant, "I don't care to learn a damn thing about the actual skating" opinions of those dipshits hold any merit.
Imagine this happening in tennis.
Person 1: "Hey, that guy patterned his game after Roger Federer!"
Person 2: "What, you mean like being fundamentally sound and using that great technique to win matches?"
Person 1: "Yep!"
Person 2: "Well, HOW DARE he try to play the game like Federer! WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS?!? How offensive! DOES HE HAVE NO RESPECT FOR FEDERER?!? UGH!!!"
That's what those dipshit V/M fans (and others) sound like when they actually smack down the teams who are following in V/M's footsteps by actually, you know, SKATING.
Ahead of the SD later today at TEB, I'm posting a reminder about the technical panel.
ReplyDeleteRef: Garry HOPPE GBR (formerly judged for ISR)
TC: David MOLINA (FRA)
TS: Francesca FERMI (ITA)
ATS: Maria TUMANOVSKAYA (UKR)
I would specifically like to direct attention towards the technical controller. http://isufamily.tumblr.com/post/103060575340/molina-is-a-french-isu-judge-whose-resume
I think we can all guess what is going to happen with levels vis-a-vis PC and GP vs American HD and PI. Davis and White scoring for the first two, Virtue and Moir scoring for the second two?
Anon 8:47, you predicted correctly, P/C in first, G/P second, H/D third, and P/I sixth (!!!!).
DeleteI hate this GP season.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra2014/CAT004RS.HTM
to be honest everyone sux this year. without VM, this sport doesnt exist. Shibs are ok but i think i watch their FD to see how much of VM and DW zoueva has recycled.
DeleteLeanna Caron ended up being on the judging panel, so I'm sure that was also a factor into the massive WTF-ery that is that SD protocol. There is some extra specialness in some of PI's and HD's GOE's and PCS.
DeleteI hate everything about this season. I would gladly relive either one or both of the two previous seasons at this point.
1:03, no one is VM, but there are a lot of good teams competing this year. Other than WP, they just can't seem to get the marks they should be.
1:03, then why don't fans like you leave and stop complaining? That is a ridiculous thing to say. Physics didn't cease to exist when Einstein died. Real ice dance is still happening and being done well.
DeleteThe Shibs are much more than OK. Marina gave them V/M-style content built around actual waltz choreo that D/W couldn't do. That's not recycling, because proper ice dance is what it is.
No, everyone does NOT suck in ice dance this year. What a stupid comment.
DeleteJust because V/M are no longer competing doesn't mean there's no longer any talent in ice dance, good grief. And please show everyone where Zoueva has recycled V/M's past stuff into the Shibs' FD, and no, "this lift kinda sorta looks like something V/M did once" and "they're waltzing, kinda like V/M did in the past!" is not a valid comparison.
^^^ 2:26 nailed it regarding the Shibs. Skating correctly to waltz rhythms does not equal recycling from V/M. Skating correctly to waltz rhythms = GOOD ICE DANCE.
DeleteThis season sucks because the same bullshit scoring that upheld D/W is still alive and well, only the difference this quad is that a bunch of junk teams are being upheld: Chock/Bates, Coombes/Buckland, Gilles/Poirer, and Papadakis/Cizeron.
DeleteI remember during Sochi, once poster made an astute observation: that a bomb went off in Sochi, sending shrapnel well into the future of ice dance. The skating teams are the collateral damage this season: H/D, P/I, the Shibs.
This is happening because in the ISU's railroading of D/W, ice dance had to sell its soul to the devil. This is D/W's "legacy" to their sport. Fuck them.
On post-skate review, the 5 non-European non-DL teams received deductions in TES. The 2 European teams coached by DL received increases in TES on review.
DeleteHD also had a set of PCS marks that were Shawn Rettstatt judging VM-esqe in nature. A 5.25 for interpretation/timing?
I recalculated HD's SD score by adding back the non-European Non-DL TES deduction and removing the Rettstatt-esqe set of PCS scores. They lost 2.16 in TES on post-skate downgrades. The PCS increase was negligible, 0.17, but every bit helps. Adding this back in, they would have received 62.52. This would have put them ahead of GP and 1.54 points out of first. You can make up 1.54 points in a FD. You can't make up 4 points in a FD unless you're GP (not even VM skating Carmen can make up 4 points in a FD!). If HD had gotten one of those nifty post-skate review bonuses like Team Montreal did, they might even be leading!
Or, they would be leading if PC hadn't received a post-skate TES bonus.
Tessa and Scott at the Limitless event :
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/SpecialOCanada/status/535946697701326849
Only here can one read what a "junk team" Papadakis and Cizeron are; please, blogger, don't ever change! This is definitely the place figure skating fans come when they need an ego boost. No matter how dumb you are, there is always someone posting here who does you far better, and uses vulgar language and poor grammar besides. Looking at you, 4:25. Find another sport -- may I recommend bowling?
ReplyDelete^^What are you so upset about? That P/C are being called a junk team, or the "vulgar" language/bad grammar? Please justify why P/C are worthy of the inflated marks they are getting this season. If you can't do that, I suggest you start watching bowling.
DeleteThis was the only place figure skating fans could read about what a junk team Davis/White were while competing as well. Are you a D/W fan (and therefore being consistent) or can you seriously not see how your comment mirrors the D/W fans who desperately tried to shut down criticism of their team here? The nervous "Lololol, I'll just insult people because I don't have better arguments and it really really bothers me that this place exists"?
DeleteThat being said, I don't think P/C are a junk team per se, and certainly not a D/W. But they are being overscored, overplaced, overpraised, overhyped, and it is completely valid for that to be called out.
"That being said, I don't think P/C are a junk team per se, and certainly not a D/W. But they are being overscored, overplaced, overpraised, overhyped, and it is completely valid for that to be called out."
DeleteExactly. I wouldn't call them a junk team either and they're certainly not a DW, GP, or CB, but they are overscored, overplaced, overpraised, overhyped, and not being as bad as DW, GP, or CB does not mean that those things shouldn't be called out.
DW are basicially retired. Can we stop talking about them already? Plus, you're just being stubborn if you still refuse to acknowledge that D/W were a great skating team, because they were and they have the medals to prove it. Stop making up excuses for their success and move on already! Ice dance is a subjective sport people, complaining isn't going to change that. And until I hear any of the current teams (not coaches) competing speak out against their un-just marks on a whole then it doesn't matter.
ReplyDeleteOk really? Ever heard of CoP?
DeleteIf figure skating is a legitimate subjective sport, in which results are open to power politics and discussion, why are people's panties in a wad about discussion over here? After all, that's the nature of the beast, no? Every other skating forum is a haven for discussion and, as you like to call it, complaining about results. FSU would cease to exist if that wasn't the case.
DeleteD/W are gold medalists. That is not debatable. Whether they fairly earned those medals with their skating, though? Perfectly reasonable discussion for any fan base to have, just like it would be a perfectly reasonable discussion for fan bases of other sports to question whether teams won championships fairly and talk about the repercussions such a situation has on the sport as a whole.
I find it amazing that this blog causes as much consternation as it does, and I can only assume it's because the usual suspects in the skating world cannot do what they love to do best: shut something down they don't like by calling it hateful, or ignorant, etc. They can't shame it out of existence, and I LOVE that about this blog. In fact, I can't get enough of how much some fans in the skating world bitch about this place telling the truth about V/M's marriage and child and talking about the actual skating + the rulebook because it's a blatant example of how those fans consciously or unconsciously work to reinforce the corrupt nature of the sport of figure skating.
11:02 here. I am not a Davis White fan. I am a fan of skating, and to read a good, up-and-coming team as "junk" warrants a critique of the poster. If you think a team is over-marked, that is one thing. To call a team "junk," and to do it using Neanderthal grammar, is quite another and is quite representative of this blogger's following. But again, carry on -- you are all priceless.
ReplyDeleteNo, I would say it warrants a critique of the actual argument that P/C are junk. They are not so fantastic that someone perhaps overstating their weaknesses calls for an ad hominem attack
DeleteYou need to look up the phrase "ad hominem." An attack on that poster's character (and grammar) was fully warranted given the vulgar language used, that absolutely cheapens this blog. The poster did not make any kind of argument -- he/she simply threw out a bunch of words.
DeleteYou are making no sense. I thought this blog was a hilarious, pathetic - how could it possibly be cheapened further?
DeleteThere have been several posts on the topic, some of which did contain arguments, so I'm not following why you're picking on this one poster, and not answering the larger issue. And not making a detailed argument doesn't automatically make ad hominem attacks appropriate.
You're trying to use the ad hominem loophole of saying the person's grammar (which, seriously? what's with the obsession on this point) and swearing means that their opinion can't be trusted in the first place and so does not need to be reckoned with. That's a really bizarre standard, you should get off the internet then.
There is an interesting pattern that emerged with regards to my Cup of China feet only videos (thanks for posting, OC). The P/C videos got significantly more views than the P/I and Shibs ones combined. The point of the videos is to watch ALL of the teams to see if the scoring made sense. Now, obviously I can't force anyone to watch them for the purpose I intended, but if people are celebrating whatever it is they think they see P/C's blades doing without reference to the other teams, that's pretty funny. You'd think they would jump at the chance to seriously test out their theory that P/C are superb and worthy of winning a sporting competition.
ReplyDeleteThe I/Z SD video also got 10x the views of anyone, so same goes for whatever fan corner of the web that got posted on. She does a ton of toe-pushing in the FD, in addition to OC's other points.
---
But the real news is - I've started a blog! I'll still definitely be focusing on videos, but I wanted a place to record things I notice while making them.
http://judgingtheisu.blogspot.ca/
And please, continue to use my videos for material as much as you like, OC. Your commentary is kick ass and always such a valuable addition to them.
And just because of a couple of the comments above, I want to stress that my blog is not intended as a replacement for the skating discussion here. And because the focus will be current ice dance, it will not be providing a contrast to what some people here perceive as Tessa hate.
Maybe people watched all the videos and then wanted to watch certain teams again, or sent them to friends, because they thought they were more impressive?
DeleteOr were we only supposed to watch the feet only videos so we could come to the same conclusions as you?
Rude much?
DeleteI should have added that I saw the pattern emerge very early on, to the point it was obvious people weren't watching all the videos.
DeleteAnd no, of course people are allowed to come to different conclusions. My surprise was not that this had happened, but that people appeared to be avoiding the question all together. If I was bothered by people seeing something different in the videos, as D/W fans certainly did, I would have stopped making them a long time ago. (A suprising number of D/W fans watched or at least claimed to, judging by comments I would get.) It doesn't mean I have to agree that people's alternative conclusions are based on reality.
Thanks canadablue. I can't properly express my appreciation. As I've said above, my comprehension of figure skating is rudimentary. I think it's revealing about figure skating that even rudimentary understanding of skating technique can reveal that Davis White's Sochi gold was unearned, and the placements in the Grand Prix series this season are political. I also don't know if I can ever properly express my appreciation for your allowing me to repost and comment on your work here, same for cute ice princess.
DeleteThis:
"And no, of course people are allowed to come to different conclusions. My surprise was not that this had happened, but that people appeared to be avoiding the question all together."
YEP. That's the pattern. People will speculate about bullshit all day. The truth? Please. Don't rock the boat. *I* think people ought to muster some stones, and some fucking energy, and engage in topics that make them uncomfortable. I understand that when it comes to fandoms, which means when it comes to Virtue Moir, many people are more comfortable using Virtue Moir as totems around which they construct fantasy scenarios, and these people don't care to engage in anything reality based. I also understand that if someone subscribes to a Davis White fantasy, the last thing these people want to reckon with is figure skating. However, that's lazy. People will do what they do. But they're not entitled to be enabled. My experience is true stuff encounters far more resistance on the web than fantasy, mostly because fandom is about fantasy.
No, OC, I'm the one who should thank you!! I was inspired to make videos and start learning seriously about skating because of your your initial D/W analysis a couple of years ago. It made me feel like I ought to at least try to understand CoP and skating technique, and it has ended up being a hobby I really enjoy (despite all the frustrating subject matter). And I appreciate the support you've given my videos more than I can say!
DeleteI agree with the comment on the new entry that you're selling yourself short here. Whatever level of knowledge it is that you feel you have, it has still been a major contribution to the conversation, and this blog is indeed what started the topic rolling in the first place. You have a fantastic eye for picking out the absurdities in what teams are doing. I hope you keep sharing your thoughts. I know your commentary keeps some of us laughing rather than crying :)
-canadablue
I agree with a lot of the bloggers facts about the actual skating, but if you can look at all of the pictures from last nights Limitless Gala..(and there are tons) and say that you think she is 8-9 months pregnant, you are bat shit crazy.....like insane
ReplyDeleteI think she had the baby a couple of weeks ago. Once someone gives birth, they become not pregnant anymore.
DeleteOkay. But whether you believe something occurred or not has no bearing on reality.
DeleteI also like the "you are bat shit crazy if you believe that!" assessments. If/when V/M's children someday appear in public for whatever reason, will you suddenly think to yourself "wow! I was wrong about that! She WAS pregnant! Huh, guess I'M the one who was batshit crazy, not the people telling the truth!"
Nah. Something tells me you won't call yourself insane even if you're proven wrong.
Case in point: "I don't have information that other people might have" and "I don't personally believe that is possible" does not equal "everyone claiming otherwise are batshit crazy.
DeleteOkay but what is happening with Paul/Islam? I cannot imagine what they and their coaches are thinking right now.
ReplyDeleteThe GPF is going to be so bad.
They're currently the 5th Canadian team on the Season's Best list, barely ahead of P/O. If this keeps up they'll have a hard time making it on the world team, and of course beating G/P is not going to happen.
DeleteThey'll go to worlds no problem but good luck cracking the top 7 nvm 10.
DeleteP&O are getting close. They didn't have the full benefit of training time to fix things based on feedback from their first event since they had back to back GPs. P&I are also doing later GPs and the scores seem to go up at each event, ie, if P&O competed this week or next week their scores would be slightly higher. If they can find another international before Canadians, that will help inch their scores up.
DeleteIt's the SD score that's keeping P&O lagging. Both of their GP FD scores are higher than both of P&I's (only just). If they revamp it for Canadians, they have a fighting chance. They also beat the Italian and Spanish teams who both just beat P&I.
I'd like to know how start orders are determined at Canadians, because that could also be a make or break thing in the SD.
It's reverse order from the standings at Challenge. The previous year's medallists AND any other teams competing on the GP circuit have a bye from Challenge and skate at the end, in reverse order from their placement the previous year.
DeleteSo basically P/I will skate second-to-last.
Thank you. That will be a big help for P&I. Without V&M and Ralph/Hill, P&O will be 5th-to-last if JGP doesn't count for a bye, or the last team in the penultimate group if JGP does count (in which case Edwards/Pang skate first in the last group).
DeleteI think it's very possible P/O will get bronze at Nats because of the D/L lovefest, but they are a long ways off P/I in terms of skills. What the closeness in scores indicate is that P/I are being held down beyond reason, and P/O are getting a boost beyond where they are at, because the reality is that these teams aren't even close.
DeleteI don't think they can revamp the problem with their SD, because the problem is their skating. P/I are completely blowing them out of the water in that segment, despite the bridgeable gap in scores. I find P/I's FD problematic for them, but the elements are harder and P/O's transitions aren't any more substantive. Even then, it's still very apparent that P/I are stronger skaters if you deconstruct the programs and watch the blades, but the SD leaves no doubt of that anyways.
P/O's skating is very scratchy and there is a lot of two foot readjusting in between the actual bladework. They don't have P/I's speed, despite that not tending to be the latter's strength, and their posture during step sequences gets in D/W-woodpecker territory. Their lifts, spin and twizzles are simple and not executed especially well. And although there's more skating involved with it, there is as much yanking and dragging each other around as D/W. They have potential, but right now, they are not a good team, at least not for the level in which they've been placed this fall. E/P are more capable skaters, but they have the challenge of senior programs.
7:27 The JGP only gives you a bye for juniors so Edwards/Pang will have to do Challenge.
DeleteIf P/I get their levels they'll most likely finish third but they've been struggling with that all season.
Paul and Islam have a rep for being mistake-prone in pressure situations. That impacts the judging at Canadians. Now, I fully know this post will elicit all kinds of rebuttals of how I must be a D/W fan; how I don't know anything about IJS, and how no where is it written that a rep for mistakes is grounds for poor GOE; how ignorant I am of 'you know, actual skating'; how I need to watch CanadaBlue's gifs of feet; etc. But that's what P/I's biggest trouble is, along with a related rep for not being hard workers.
ReplyDeleteThe rep for not being hard workers is new to me - care to elaborate?
DeletePI not being hard workers is new to me too. I've never heard that one before.
DeleteWhy don't you stop playing the martyr, 7:08? You say things that don't make sense, people will call you out on it. Poor you.
DeleteI don't think anyone here will disagree that a reputation of consistency affects judging. Just that it isn't legitimat at all per CoP. Why isn't that a perfectly valid thing to point out and say that P/I being punished for that if they skate great, which they've shown they're capable of, at Nats is wrong?
*legitimate
DeleteYou and your ilk are the matyrs, 1:11. You criticize others for not adhering to IJS & knowing how the game works, yet you know nothing -- nothing -- about how dance judging works in the real world. There is absolutely no way you are going to get a panel of 7, 9 or 11 people, robotically following ISU communications to the letter without letting their own prejudices and preferences sway them. And, if you are a sitting Canadian judge, you are not going to want to put a team out there you think might collapse -- regardless of whether Paul's edges are deeper than Gilles', or Paul has more core strength, etc. What could be sacrificed in skating skills and other PCS could be wiped out if P/I crash on a lift. And once you get a rep in figure skating -- for unreliability, for under rotating, for being less prepared, for not showing up for practices on time, for not being able to deliver when it counts -- it is very hard to shake.
Delete3:03, IOW, how ice dance judging works in the real world is it's corrupt. We already know this. IOW, ice dance judging doesn't score what was actually executed on the ice, but rather, bears in mind what the skater or skaters did before. So even if a team skates lights out, their "scores", which on the score sheet, are meant to reflect only what the skater just did, will be depressed based on what they did before.
DeleteOf course, when it counts, individual Federations have the option to disregard the results at a National competition, and name whomever they choose to the World team. The judges don't need to pretend a team or skater skated worse than they actually did in order to ensure the most reliable teams went to worlds. That's why Jessica Dube was hardly ever on a Worlds team.
Oh wait.
The bottom line is what you're saying about "real world" scoring is "real world" scoring is corrupt. Furthermore, "real world" scoring, to work as you describe, must ignore the actual skating skills and actual skating content vis a vis the standards set down in CoP. IOW, the team that is "reliable" such as GP and Davis White, is often "reliable" because their programs are full of shit.
Therefore, and to restate, figure skating - ice dance - punishes skaters who actually skate their programs. That's what you mean by "real world" and that's why the sport is dirty.
I wouldn't even be super quick to attribute the clean and reliable tag to G/P at this point considering they aborted a lift at Autumn Classic, ran into the boards during their twizzles at Skate Canada and had a general trainwreck of a free dance at TEB. But their PCS grew with each error so I suppose judges appreciate the solid technique.
Delete3:03, your entire post lays out, in great detail I might add, why ice dance is not a legitimate sport. It is theatre on ice performed by very athletic skaters, but a legitimate sport it ain't.
DeleteResults in legitimate sports are based on what happens on the field/court/ice, not on what biases, prejudices, and arm-twisting judges let sway their scores and placements. That's beauty pageant bullshit, not actual judging according to a rulebook. If the ISU wants to present ice dance for what it really is - theatre on ice with winners determined not by what they actually do on the ice in a competition, but by power politics (and outright corruption), that would be one thing. Hell, at least it would be a truthful assessment.
However, that's not what the ISU does. It misrepresents ice dance as a legitimate sport in which results are determined by what a skater does on the ice IN THAT PERFORMANCE, per a rulebook that only assigns points to skating-centric elements and components. Calling out that kind of hypocrisy is not representative of someone "knowing nothing" about how ice dance judging works, it's representative of someone having a full understanding of how it "works." The ISU wants ice dance to remain in the Olympics as a legitimate sport even though it is not being judged as a legitimate sport should be. That's bullshit, and it always has been.
I was going to say the same, 4:11.
DeleteGP haven't been clean and reliable, unless you mean "reliable to make errors and put out trainwreck programs." They're the ones on the way to the GPF though instead of HuDo, who's biggest error this season was a glitch in the FD at TEB on a lift far more complicated and difficult in design and execution than any of GP's lifts.
In happy skating news, Lubov and Dylan won Warsaw Cup...yay!
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAflLKTazmk
Lubov and Dylan's win is one of the few bright spots in skating right now and the highlight of this weekend. I am so happy for them.
DeleteShe has absolutely gorgeous lines and posture and Dylan is doing a fantastic job matching her. I'm so glad they had the opportunity to compete internationally and can now (hopefully) represent Canada at 4CC and Worlds. Welcome to the country, Lubov! Sit down, stay a while.
DeleteTheir lifs are amazing! If they can get the jumps down and continue to finesse things, I see them taking second at Nationals.
DeleteDylan has to be one of the best males around for lifts. He's so, so strong and I'm never worried for his partner. Kirsten's new partner really needs to work on his technique in lifts. He always looks like he's about one second away from falling forward and sending her headfirst onto the ice.
DeleteAs any youtube search will show you, "strength" is not the real requirement for lifts. Proper technique is. Obviously, anybody competing at this level needs to be strong, but it's not weight lifting. Dylan not only has technique, he also has awareness. He's like Bryce Davison. You know he's keenly attuned to his partner up there, every nuance.
DeleteDylan very modestly said something about a change in his skating, and how he worked on his basic skating to match Lubova's. Lubova has wonderful basic skating. That's why it's difficult to be too fussed about various errors in the program. The foundation is so strong. I don't mean to compare them to Volosozhar/Trankov, but when VT started (and even still, at a season's beginning) there were/are times an element didn't happen, but it was difficult to truly worry about it, because the foundational skills were so strong. I do notice Dylan appears to have acquired more fluidity in his overall movement, and deeper, stronger stroking. He's aware of his partner at all times; Lubova is in the fortunate position of knowing he's there, and being able to focus on her own execution. The commitment the two of them demonstrate on the ice to their program and to each other is wonderful to see. I'm also impressed by what seems to me to be her increased musicality (I think Kirsten's is stellar, and it's one of the things I enjoyed most in MTM. However, she appears to be on her own so far in that regard with Marinaro. He's got enthusiasm, but not a whole lot of phrasing.).
I love some of the stuff Dylan has said about Lubov, such as that she has a champion's mentality. And that she's only now starting to realize she has input, and can express herself creatively. I wonder what sort of experience this is for Bryce Davison as well. He and Dylan always seem so similar in how they think about skating, and how they relate to a partner. Lubova seems like a dream partner.
Kirsten at this time is cuing, supporting and hedging her own performance to accomodate her partner. I guess I can see why she chose him. He's young. He's graceful (if not musical - and she's very musical. I find that differential frustrating). His individual skating skills are pretty decent. He has a nice stroke. As the Eurosport guys said, he appears as if he could stay in the death spiral pivot all day. He hangs onto his jumps. Where he misses the boat is, as you say, in the lifts, and in timing vis a vis Kirsten with linking moves and transitions. Kirsten technically blew the lift in the short program - she opened up too early. But one wonders why - where was her head? I definitely think a pairs girl can "lead" the team, even if the layout nominally gives that role to the guy. But she has to have confidence in her ability to lead her partner, she can't be distracted about it. At the moment, Marinaro looks to be a better individual skater than pairs partner.
Can someone set this poster straight? How did V/M "never pushed themselves"?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?52965-2014-Troph%E9e-Eric-Bompard-Free-Dance-11-22&p=1029027&viewfull=1#post1029027
MarieM has interesting opinions on ice dance. She also offered this up:
Deletehttp://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?52965-2014-Troph%E9e-Eric-Bompard-Free-Dance-11-22&p=1028653&viewfull=1#post1028653
"A choreographer is someone who is open minded and not one dimensionnal. Someone who will go to different things and get inspiration from it. Brodway, Ballet, a concert, a painting exhibition, a movie anything.
And a choreographer must think in terms of a "whole" and not add elements just to rack up points.
The program can give you a story that anyone can get, or just do something that will grab you just because it's that effective."
It sounds like she described Marina to me, but she hates Marina.
On the subject of choreography, VM could skate PC's overscored and fsu-acclaimed program, you tell these people it had been choreographed by Marina, and suddenly they would all find it boring.
Amazing, huh? She describes Marina to a tee, but hates Marina. ITA that if VM had skated PC's program, fsu would find it boring.
DeleteOC is on twitter as tessaxscott_fan. She is the tweeter who had a terrible anxiety breakdown in Sept on the day of Scott's birthday. The syntax and wording ( "will do!)
ReplyDeleteeven in the precis messages demanded by Twitter , is the same. There are a couple other accounts, now defunct where someone said rude things about T and our Audrey Hepburn icon girl answered back, scolding the rude person....but it's all the same person. And legions of fans did not beg her to send warm wishes to S, a few did, most of them probably OC.