This comparison by Canadablue shows that Tessa isn't actually sitting on Scott's shoulders. Meryl is, however, lying on Charlie. I wonder what the mechanical texts on amazon.com say about those physics.
I think the spinning stool poster said Tessa using her thighs or butt made no difference, you just readjust your center of gravity. How did a retired engineer overlook that readjusting your center of gravity under these conditions takes tremendous core strength and a brilliant awareness/control of one's body in space?
Readjusting her center of gravity is something at which Tessa excels. She's a genius at distributing her weight and adjusting her balance. But this poster doesn't seem to recognize that adjusting your center of gravity is a skill. One that other ice dancers don't do as well after vaulting onto another human being off the edge of a skate blade.
Here's Virtue and Moir not being tight with their music, versus DW's own ballroom take on My Fair Lady.
Also some round up from the weekend:
Scott being a bad boyfriend:
 |
| This is just their "characters on the ice." Nice job, even though Tessa recently told us she's a terrible, terrible actress. Scott/Tessa and Meryl/Charlie are each platonic partners where the male partner is conspicuously dating somebody else off ice and the female's romantic status is unknown. Yet this sort of thing constantly breaks out when Scott and Tessa skate together, even at a GPF, and it never breaks out with Charlie and Meryl, even though they share a coach. |
Maybe next time they'll bring in that emotion the free dance was missing.
Someone who saw these photos joked that Scott can't say his gf is in the sport, so "she understands", but after Mama Hilborn's fb vents this weekend it looks like the Hilborns believe helping Scott and Tessa hoax the public has given them credentials. They're now in the sport.
In the short step sequence meryl is skidding and struggling to hold her edges toward the end. how can it possibly score that high?
ReplyDeleteWhen they compete against Virtue and Moir, they get Virtue and Moir's scores plus. That's how. Tessa and Scott got the high scores with their own skating. That score was then transferred to Meryl/Charlie with add ons.
DeleteOC 4:08
DeleteSince their first year as seniors (2006-2007 season) DW have been scored as if they're equal to VM. DW got their reputation on the coattails of the real superstars, Tessa and Scott. Since Vancouver (2010-2011 season and till now) it's been about giving them VM's scores and then add ons.
DW have never ever deserved to be close to VM, let alone surpass them. There's been hinkiness surrounding DWs scores for years. It's just become more blatant. They know they've been promised wins, imo that's why they can show up every year with essentially the same program, without having advanced in a single skill (in fact, their skills have regressed but they're faster at getting around the rink in order to hide all their deficiencies). DW know the fix is in for them. They act like a team that's counting on it, no matter how they skate.
I did recently look back at one set of scores from the late 00s, and was surprised to see even then DW were only about .09 back. That kept them off the podium, so this didn't get the spotlight. Nobody back then called them as close to Virtue Moir in ability.
DeleteAt the GPF, I took note of Charlie and Meryl emphasizing that the "exciting" thing about their short program is there is so much more to grow. What that means is that Scott and Tessa are going to somehow improve on perfection and grow their own short dance, and so Davis White's scores will keep pace, PLUS, while their actually skating stays in place or becomes even more labored, as has been happening for some time.
This season is also exposing hinkiness in the commentariat. When you stick Davis White in among skaters with superior skating skills, it is definitely a one of these things is not like the others situation, particularly in and out of elements.
It's amazing that up until Davis White had to skate against Virtue Moir, the judges seemed to be looking more critically at their twizzles. As soon as it's against Virtue Moir - bam! +333s despite a loss of synchronicity/wild transition from Charlie and L4. That's because Virtue Moir's twizzles were brilliant.
If past is precedent, skating order won't matter in Sochi. If it's the same set up as here, with VM skating first and skating brilliantly, DW will receive their scores plus a chaser, no matter how they skate - as long as Charlie doesn't pull a CoR, they're (literally) golden. If DW skate first, they'll get something like 79.35 for the short dance, and Virtue and Moir will be scrutinized like they're gymnasts.
There is also the lack of unison just prior to the 6 yes 6 steps on their toe picks as a choreographic feature in the step sequence that they need in order to regain the speed lost trying to do actual edgework. This is not the type of bunny hop used by skilled teams to maintain speed
DeleteI always love how they say their relationship can't be explained. Yes it can. You were skating partners as children, stayed together, fell in love, got married, and became parents.
DeleteSee?
Nobody needs to know all the freaking nuances. Who else 'can't explain' their marriage or relationship because they don't think they can communicate the nuances or entire history or describe the dynamic? Nobody! This isn't information people demand of other people. Married. There. Covered it.
oc
"Maybe next time they'll bring in that emotion the free dance was missing."
ReplyDeleteI actually did think it was missing emotion the first three times, but not anymore :D They've finally figured out the program IMO. This performance was miles ahead of what they've done so far this season. Of course, the performance is much less important than the technical skating in the marks, but I honestly think it's hard for V/M to do one perfectly without the other. Think about the disastrous start to last year's SD, then they admitted that the program wasn't working for them. I think they are such "big picture" skaters, they skate and dance so in-the-moment vs rote D/W, that I bet the levels come more naturally when the vehicle in its entirety is there for them. It's a theory anyways. Something clicked into place this time, technically and emotionally - the latter for many fans who weren't convinced, and it would seem for them as well considering their reactions. Maybe it just needed time to train, but to me it seemed that both halves of the whole were on pause until it could all come together.
I agree, 5:19. It was missing the emotion the first three times out. I was one of the ones who did not like this FD until the GPF outing, but I can't stop watching it now. I can't wait to see how they further develop this program.
Deletemaybe for the time being,as fans we should all focus on how to help VM NOT get screwed. i know you think that is inevitable but if sale pelletier could get justice at olympics so can vm. i didnt like sale pelletier but you know what i mean. it' never a lost cause. so oy canada you know what'sup. someone has to put together an open letter, a journalist has to put this out there, there's got to be someone in canada to do this, and so on. there has to be a way. DW "won" by less than 2 points. ther's got to be a way.
ReplyDeleteSP had the full force of the US media behind them. The US media is behind DW this time. There's nothing that can be done except pray.
DeleteThe blog has been saying that for some time. The US media got S&P their gold medal. Canada could have whined all day long and the OOC wouldn't have lifted a finger. With Scott Hamilton screaming and Time magazine (and maybe Newsweek) acting like it was a foreign policy crisis, the OOC big-footed over the ISU and tossed S&P an extra gold. Go back to video of that time and S&P aren't Canadian. They're "North American". The Russians, of course, are "The Russians."
DeleteCanada has the US media to thank for S&P's gold.
This quad, Virtue and Moir are "The Russians."
Damn those Russians....because according to Meryl, "...it's a power shift from Russia, to skating being rewarded for good skating."
DeleteGood one - anon at 7:27 pm - perhaps that quote should be put on a tshirt and given to Goordeeva, Kulik, Petrenko, Krylova, Klimova, Ponamerenko, Platov, Yagudin, Slutskaya, Plushenko etc...
DeleteThe IOC depends on US media money. Big time. I've been saying this all season long. If the US media wants D/W to win, the IOC is going to make sure the ISU gives them the gold. It's easy enough to do in a non-sport like ice dancing.
DeleteAnon at 7:43 pm - perhaps in the past US media has contributed to IOC coffers...not so much anymore - the powerbase in advertising money is in Asia, the Middle East and Europe. The US media does not care about the winter olympic games...as I stated earlier - US advertisers are going to hit the Superbowl and the World Cup this year...hell if the Today show who had DW on in recent memory show a clip of VM in error - and NBC is the Olympic broadcaster - well DW is not going to be the breakout superstars of these games....if DW had that star quality - they would have had a Nike deal like Ashley Wagner (and they share the same agency - IMG)...also if the US media was so enamoured with DW - then during the GP series - why has ice-dance gotten almost no air time compared to men and women events by NBC...
Delete@ 7:43, what US media money are you talking about? NBC barely shows any skating during the year. I don't know if icenetwork turns much of a profit but it's attached to the MLB network which does, so that probably helps it hang on. Events are aired on Universal Sports, but does that really bring in more money than the European and Asian networks that air the competitions as well? I doubt it.
DeleteAre you taking about advertising dollars? The poster above is right that most of that revenue comes from Asia, not the United States.
"...also if the US media was so enamoured with DW - then during the GP series - why has ice-dance gotten almost no air time compared to men and women events by NBC..."
Right. They get almost no coverage by NBC in comparison to the other disciplines. The time D/W got the most media coverage was when they did the Stars on Ice tour the summer following the Vancouver Games, which was headed by Lysacek and Scott Hamilton. Virtue and Moir get FAR more media coverage in Canada. Theirs and Chan's skates are actually covered on Sports Centre. That program in the US never gives figure skating the time of day until the Olympics comes around, and it barely gives it coverage even then. It spends most of it time following Shaun White, Apollo Ohno, and the US Olympic ski team.
^^^ I just realized you were talking about the IOC and not just the ISU. I read it incorrectly.
DeleteYes, the IOC gets a lot of ad revenue from the United States. But the IOC has no love affair with ice dance. The US media will play no part in determining the winner of the event, per se. What I mean is, it will respond to the result, yes. But it won't force the IOC's hand to exert pressure on the ISU to give D/W the gold medal.
The IOC makes money off of all the figure skating events BUT ice dance. And if they want the ice dance competition to be its figure skating bread and butter in Sochi, they sure as hell haven't made the US media aware of that because it's done nothing to garner the public's interest in the V/M vs. D/W rivalry.
If D/W don't win the gold medal, the IOC isn't going to lose US media money. It will continue to be there regardless of the ice dance results.
I kind of agree that the US doesn't care about ice dance THAT much, and isn't losing revenue over it, but it's also true that USOC/USFS are very powerful and if a gold medal is there for the taking, then hey, they'll go for it. They don't hate ice dancing that much that they're not going to try at all. That's why if VM were Russian, or if SC gave a shit, this would be reversible. They needed to have fought back with all of the ISU seminar bullshit, and choosing SD rhythms that suit DW. This was decided years ago, and it's a damn shame. The idea that something happened between VM and SC that caused them not to support VM as fully as pre-2010 is intriguing. Perhaps SC wanted them to change course, move away from the sham, and use their baby as a selling point... all fanwanking of course. But VM's personal situation and SC's priorities seem to be messy enough that USFS saw an in and took it (the first "in" being VM exaggerating Tessa's injury in 2010 because they didn't want to admit she was skipping the GP due to pregnancy... and the "injured" narrative has stayed with them ever since).
Delete"The IOC makes money off of all the figure skating events BUT ice dance."
DeleteI don't think it's about making money off of ice dance. Rather, I wonder if it's about NBC having to broadcast ice dance during primetime (because it's our only chance for a gold in the marquee sport of figure skating), when they know most viewers think its a snooze and don't understand the scoring at all. Plus, Meryl and Charlie are probably the least charismatic couple of all time. However, there is a chance of getting the first American Olympic ice dance gold, and to have it happen in Mother Russia is a way of humiliating Russia in a way I'm sure the American media would love. Add the story of two hard-working, nice (cue photos of them hugging V/M after the last Olympics), scholar-athletes (cue shots of UMich), who love to mentor kids (Classroom Champs clips) and you've got a story worth selling and a way to keep butts in the seats and eyes on the screen. To have these *deserving* athletes lose to a couple *that already has a gold* and is just not good anymore (cue stats showing that they haven't won against D/W in forever, as rigged by judges, and Tessa's prolonged injuries), and you have a situation that isn't fair in any way other than to give D/W Sochi gold (cue Scott Hamilton screaming if it doesn't happen).
"the first "in" being VM exaggerating Tessa's injury in 2010 because they didn't want to admit she was skipping the GP due to pregnancy... and the "injured" narrative has stayed with them ever since)."
DeletePeople like to say that Marina doesn't politick hard enough for V/M. But maybe the case is that she would like to politick for them, but is hamstrung by V/M's own stupidities. She knows that you don't exaggerate injuries -- which is why Tessa's legs were a total secret the year before the Olympics. She knows claiming that you are brother/sister or business partners is virtually ice dance suicide and shouldn't be done. It's got to be frustrating to work with so much talent when that talent is so stubborn, arrogant, and dumb. V/M keep cutting themselves off in the legs. Meryl and Charlie do every damn thing Marina says. That's why they win.
"maybe the case is that she would like to politick for them, but is hamstrung by V/M's own stupidities."
Delete4:48, you aren't the only one to think about this. It would be hard for anyone to politik for VM in light of their stubborn insistence that their PR should revolve around false/created personas.
I think you're right Marina is hamstrung. Tessa and Scott seem to be listening exclusively to Moirville and no one else. We know Marina rolled her eyes early in their senior career when she was told they said they were brother and sister. When she put together the team of Fedor and Yana she made sure there was a romantic aura and she dropped hints in the press about them possibly being a couple when there was nothing of the sort going on. She choreographed for G&G based on their true lives/feelings.
It's been plain for a long time VM do not have competent management nor do they wish to have any. I don't know how they've decided Moirville is good enough when they've made such a hash of things up till now.
Anon at 4:43 pm - you bring up some valid points - but then how does NBC sell the team event which is earlier for the US - as a ratings grab? If you can't garnish interest in the team event - and you repeat the same programs for all skaters - it loses its sparkle for the individual events...it's hard enough to get people to watch figure skating during the Olympics - but to watch 2 sets of events...you might be stretching it...I think NBC will short-change the ice-dance and pairs competitions and will concentrate on the ladies and mens. NBC will focus more on the extreme sports (ie aerials etc) because that's the demographic Nike wants. Nike has hockey shirts to sell...I know that I have spoken to several friends both in the US and Canada - and are general sports fans who have followed both the Summer and Winter Olympics in the past...somehow all of us are not as excited about these Olympics...and it's not because they are in Russia..I just think that since 2010 - sports in general - including the Olympics has taken a nose-dive in terms of credibility - specifically with doping. I also think that viewers have a lot more to choose from....yes the hardcore sports fan will watch the Olympics whereas the casual sports fan (whom Procter and Gamble is hoping for) may decide - I'd rather catch-up on my favorite TV series or movies etc...its definitely a more fragmented viewing population...then even five years ago...
DeleteAnon at 4:48 pm - I am pretty sure that Marina has tried to make Charlie look more at Meryl over the years. It just hasn't worked. There is no connection - there is no love of skating together...but then again in this last quad - DW have never been dinged - so it's not like Charlie has had to make the effort and change...yes we had the brief fakeness with NDP at Skate America - but that was so bad - it had to go...
DeleteI think if Scott had come from a non-skating family that was not controlling and territorial - VM would have signed with IMG. Perhaps they would not come out as a couple - but I don't think you would have had the shamming.
Also because Zoueva and Shpilband were primarily interested in building their reputations in the ice-dance world and had a great number of teams and saw what they were dealing with the Moirs in terms of personality types - they weren't going to argue.
4:48 and 5:08 make some good points. IMO, coaches make four year plans just as much as skaters do. Platov has spoken about this... Dubova admitted her plan was to make Usova Zhulin champions in 1994 and then for Platov to win in 1998. Later, GP felt that Linichuk wanted Krylova Ovsiannikov to win in 98, so GP again switched coaches.
DeleteIt makes sense in a way.... once a skater has won Olympic gold, they don't always commit 100% to training over the next quad (see Plushenko, Kim, and even Gordeeva Grinkov retiring two years after the Olympics... to get married and have a baby). In 2010 VM were taking things year by year and were getting the quad off to a really bad start. What they did in their personal lives was flaky, and Tessa really was injured, so I can totally see Marina giving them the side eye and being like, I'm going to invest my energy into an Olympic gold for this $$$$ hard-working, uninjured, hungry couple. I think she works with VM because she enjoys playing with their excellent skills and qualities, but her focus as a coach is on DW's gold. I don't know if four years ago she could have predicted VM would still be very much committed to skating and in the best shape of their lives.
I find it sad that such a great team doesn't appear to have their federation behind them nor have they ever had a private training base away from their biggest rivals.
VM don't need a private training base away from DW. We rag on them for their off-ice idiocies but as far as skating, they've done everything right. It's very evident they are committed to excellence.
DeleteWhat is needed is the ice-dance corruption to be exposed in time for DW not to win come Sochi, or that same corruption to change direction and favor VM, or some other set of circumstances to happen that would favor VM. The anger should be directed where it belongs. What is happening in ice-dance is out of VM's control. VM are doing what IS in their control and that is working with Marina to create great programs and great skating. I don't see VM falling apart in any of these areas. Why should they change environments?
VM have done everything they can to position themselves for gold every competition this quadrennial and if the judging had been fair they would in fact have been winning everything every time.
"What is needed is the ice-dance corruption to be exposed in time for DW not to win come Sochi, or that same corruption to change direction and favor VM, or some other set of circumstances to happen that would favor VM."
DeleteNone of those things are happening.
7:15
DeleteTrue, none of those things are happening. It doesn't mean VM need to change their training situation. If we're saying the fix is in regardless, why should Tessa and Scott change something that's working well? Their skating gets better every season. They consistently create fabulous programs. They (and their coaching) ARE getting it done. The problem within ISU or Federation politics is out of their control.
@6:54
Delete"What is needed is the ice-dance corruption to be exposed in time for DW not to win come Sochi, or that same corruption to change direction and favor VM, or some other set of circumstances to happen that would favor VM."
I don't want VM to win because of corruption--I want them to win because they deserve to win. There are lots of very talented teams out there right now--VM just happen to be that once-in-a-generation team with no real weaknesses. They really are the G&G of ice dance and should have an advantage in the scores because their skating is so far superior to that of their competitors.
It's just my own sense of the narrative but I think VM lost control of it when they lied during 2010-2011 and came back for Worlds. The way they played it was to amp up her post-2008 surgery pain and downplay the 2010 procedure. 2010 was just oh a little fix - I still had some extra pain and since there was the opportunity this time to take a long recovery, that's what we did. Last time we rushed!
DeleteThe problem with all this is the first time she had surgery, they also downplayed it. Oh she had this pain, took awhile to realize where it's coming from, the surgery's done and it's all smooth sailing. "Such a treat!" to skate without pain!
After the Olympics, they were like - oh that was total lies! She couldn't walk to the cafeteria! She was sobbing in the car! She had meltdowns! The pain was unbelieveable!
So when they came up with the second procedure (which I believe she had, because, like others, I know she did still have pain), and they were again all - oh, I'm back in the gym! This time it's going great! People didn't believe them.
People don't believe them on this stuff, because they flip the stories. Instead of hewing a little closer to how they were spinning it at the time, they threw it out the window and said it was nonstop excruciating torture.
So when she does it again, why do people believe them? IMO the fact that she started training again with Maria Mountain and it showed in her musculature was enough confirmation that the second procedure had helped, but people don't use logic. They throw timeline out the window, decide Tessa is fat, and speculate about her continuing to be injured.
They're very sloppy with the timelines of their lies, and they honestly never give a shit if they're throwing away something that yesterday they swore was true. The result is other people dismiss their version, get sloppy with what's going on, and the result is Tessa has problems with her legs and can't train. They don't look at the skating, they don't look at her body, they just remember what Scott and Tessa SAID.
(Which totally contradicts VM's claim that people only remember how you make them feel).
"People don't believe them on this stuff, because they flip the stories.
Delete.......they just remember what Scott and Tessa SAID......
........(Which totally contradicts VM's claim that people only remember how you make them feel)."
Interesting.
I'm sure they've applied this logic to their upcoming documentary/reality show, but I wonder how it's supposed to work? Video images are very powerful. Are they hoping it's like mere words (along with all the voice-overs they're apparently providing, like Scott saying things like, "IF Tessa had a boyfriend..."), and therefore, according to them, all of it forgotten when they change the narratives later on?
Tessa and Scott seem to wish their sublime skating, that people say sometimes makes them feel like crying, cancels out anything they do or say off-ice. It's puzzling if they really believe this, seeing as how this blog has been around for almost 3 years and is proof no one forgets words. In fact, VM's words have been recorded and published (here and elsewhere).
If they want "feelings" I'll give them this - Tessa and Scott, you've made many fans feel stupid with your gaslighting. You've also made them feel angry. If this TV show creates the same feelings, only a hundred-fold, I guarantee those feelings (and the images of whatever lies you're peddling) will not ever be forgotten. No matter how much your skating at Canadians and the Olympics makes anyone cry,
VM seem to think their skating, that the fans love, will cancel out all the egregiousness off-ice. It doesn't. They seem to have a hard time grasping that fact.
Doris P posting more nonsense, this time in response to D/W's hopping and skipping:
ReplyDelete"They might notice that those little hops & jumps always accentuate the beat-which is what they are for."
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?90141-Davis-amp-White-19-Two-Twirly-Twizzles&p=4074757&viewfull=1#post4074757
Oh yes. That's what good skating is all about, after all. Hopping to accentuate the beat of the music. Yep.
DeleteHey! If all it takes to be an ice dancer is hopping to accentuate the beat of the music, I too can be an ice dancer on the international level!
DeleteYES!
Hang on a second, 6:57 PM. You *might* have a shot at becoming an ice dancer on the international level, but first you'll need to prove you aren't a stool.
DeleteHmmm if all those little hops and jumps accentuate the beat - then why hasn't this type of interpretation been used by other great musical skaters like Dai Takahashi, Stephane Lambiel, Mao Asada, Kurt Browning, Torvill and Dean, Michelle Kwan, G and G, Alexei Yagudin etc - oh it's a DW technique really then - how groundbreaking...
DeleteMemo to Lori Nichol and David Wilson - must add little hops and jumps to accentuate the beat...increase interpretation and choreography...hmmm must as well cc Jeff Buttle on this as well...
DeleteWow, the idiots over at TSL are really laying it on thick:
Delete"As both programs continue to develop, the Americans’ free dance continues to have more substance and intricacy. Though Virtue and Moir’s program shows extension, clean lines and refinement that is gasp-worthy, their holds and transitions remain decidedly less impressive. It will be curious to see how these programs continue to evolve over the next two months. Davis and White’s new ending pose is a noteworthy improvement. Finally, the program leaves us with a truly iconic image."
Good thing D/W hired that Persian dance specialist to help them with all their posing.
http://www.theskatinglesson.com/state-of-skate-a-recap-of-the-grand-prix-final-and-golden-spin/
Utter and complete idiocy by two totally biased people. Precisely why I don't go to their stupid site. I refuse to give them traffic from my lowly computer. The come that comes out from their mouths, the more stupid they appear and they were looking pretty stupid months ago.
DeleteI guess Persian dancing = posing and throwing your arms up in the air as you stare into distant space while your partner looks at you, probably wondering what you find so fascinating up there.
Their holds are less impressive? At least they have some. Where are the holds in D/W's free dance?
DeleteDW mostly hop and run as transitions. when they are not doing that they are usually on two feet. i didn't realize that this is the stuff of Olympic champions. Like 6:57, i am feeling pretty good about my own chances at international success. I was the hopscotch champ of my playground in my youth.
Delete@9:11
DeleteDon't you know? hand-to-hand is the most difficult hold. I mean, it must be if DW are outscoring everyone else in transitions.
"Scott being a bad boyfriend."
ReplyDeleteUh oh, that's gonna require some extra fake girlfriend photo spamming, V/M's child's future embarrassment and disdain be damned!
Oh, and congrats to the nieces, who got two more K&C shout outs this weekend. They're accumulating quite the media library of public acknowledgements. On the official site for the "Tessa & Scott 'documentary,'" they're part of Scott's official bio. Isn't it sweet that they're being included in all of their uncle's lies, which include pretending he's screwing some woman that isn't his wife or that he doesn't have a child of his own?
DeleteAdorable.
"Uh oh, that's gonna require some extra fake girlfriend photo spamming"
DeleteWe just saw those fools respond asap to the blog (Cathy Hilborn's facebook posts). Anyhow, they're always looking for an excuse to be exhibitionist and show off so if that bad boyfriend comment results in more sham activity it just goes to show how tuned in they are to any pretext to escalate the hoax.
I also considered the possibility Mrs. Hilborn's posts were a backdoor attempt at directing attention to her daughter's *very important* role in Scott's life. Who would go to her facebook page and not click on her children's links or any other links? VM try hard to be creative at the backdoor shamming and using the Hilborns' social media accounts would accomplish that purpose. Fans are not that interested in Scott-Cassandra but Moirville is gonna keep trying their damnedest to direct fans' attention to themselves. Who cares about the skating.
I don't think I agree, 7:16pm. I consider it more a peek behind the curtain. Scott and Tessa's community are obsessed with them. They all want to be part of it. They're all invested in it. Scott and Tessa are celebrities. Knowing them makes people feel important. Participating - shamming - as ludicrous as that is - make them even MORE important. We're helping to hoax the public - we're on the team!
DeleteNow the team is getting screwed. Instead of two-time gold medalists in ice dance, their scores are suppressed so DW win, every time. It's a given. So the Moirville community is now flopping like a bunch of fish on a dock. They're frantic. The narrative is supposed to be one of glory, not unfairness and disappointment and anti-climax. They're all like - Scott and Tessa - C'est Nous! I think at least in this instance, Mrs. Hilborn is revealing something of the intensity behind the sham - intensity about Scott and Tessa's fame and status and glory - rather than anything about the sham itself. It would reveal WHY someone would help her daughter sham - anything to be part of it, have a piece of it.
I agree oc, Cathy Hilborn's posts were a peek behind the curtain.
DeleteWhat a sorry bunch of attention-whores. VM know these people will fall over themselves to be part of the action, for any attention, and they use them for their own agendas. But then, VM are also being used to show off and preen and get attention.
They're all using each other but fans are the ones getting blamed and hoaxed.
"This is just their "characters on the ice." Nice job, even though Tessa recently told us she's a terrible, terrible actress. Scott/Tessa and Meryl/Charlie are each platonic partners where the male partner is conspicuously dating somebody else off
ReplyDeleteice and the female's romantic status is unknown. Yet this sort of thing constantly breaks out when Scott and Tessa skate together, even at a GPF, and it never breaks
out with Charlie and Meryl, even though they share a coach."
Oh, well you know. It's because Tessa and Scott are so unique, their relationship cannot be explained.
Odds are "platonic" or "unique" was their daughter's first word.
If Toddler Moir is on the ball, she'll appropriate all of Scott and Tessa's rationales in the sham in her dealings with her parents. If she breaks rules or sneaks around, it was just her persona, not the real TM. If they want her to explain herself, she can simply say it's really difficult to explain because the circumstances were unique (but too difficult to explain how unique). Any bad behavior is a character. If she's dating someone they're giving the fish eye, she can simply say she's not, and show them her facebook to prove it.
DeleteOC @ 12:10,
DeleteA+
And what about the kiss at the start of the sd?
ReplyDeletehttp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dunUmDp2eXg
From 0.53 ;)
It's kind of tough to tell from that clip but they do that sort of thing all the time, and by "sort of thing" I mean slip lip kisses into their performances. There's one CD from back in 2008, I think (the Argentine Tango?) when they did it twice in one performance. They did it several times in Mahler and Carmen. Last year Tessa laid one on Scott once or twice during their "Hallelujah" exhibition at one of the GPs, I think. I can't remember exactly, but it's been going on for years. I'm surprised more people haven't seen it, but then again, they probably have but are either unwilling to accept that it was anything but an accident since that's V/M's stupid excuse for their normal, married couple behavior, or have become practically immune to it since it happens all the time.
DeleteI think OC said it right up above. It's ridiculous how much V/M try to sell the "we can't explain our relationship, it's so unique!" lines. Whatever. They're skating partners who also happen to be in love and married, big freaking deal. It's a great bonus to their skating, not something to hide. They need to get over themselves. Everyone's relationship/marriage is unique and can only really be understood by the two people who make up that pairing.
Just wondering - haven't watched any WP fluff pieces or post performaces interviews this year - does the word connection ever come up?
Deletethose arent kisses lol the only time they accidentally kissed was @ gotenberg. however who the fuck knows what happened at 4cc. it obviously was no accident at least not on tessa's part.
DeleteThere are plenty of kisses. Kisses that people have screencapped. Many, many kisses.
DeleteV/M do not "accidentally kiss" on the ice, ever. Anyone who believes that is being willfully blind.
DeleteThey have far too much control over their bodies and heads in space to just accidentally bump lips all the damn time. They do it on purpose whenever they feel like it or if it fits the mood of the program, just like G&G used to do. Because, just like G&G, they are romantically involved and married and that plays into how Marina choreographs for them.
I'll have to go find the interview but Marina explained that she choreographed differently for G&G than she ever would have done for non-romantically involved teams. G&G had the freedom to touch each other differently on the ice and so she utilized that in her choreography. She does the same for V/M. Always has.
I find it hilarious that ANYONE buys the "oops, we accidentally bumped lips!" dumbass excuses V/M throw out about their kisses and touching on the ice.
LOL at the "obviously what happened at 4CC was no accident on Tessa's part."
DeleteThat's true. It was no accident. Because she's married to the man that is her skating partner and locks lips with him frequently on the ice.
if you look closely at the examples listed here, http://fenice.forumcommunity.net/?t=54782177&st=585#entry387157874 their lips arent touching. scott usually rests his lips above hers so it looks like they are kissing when they're not. no one is freaking out because they have been doing this forever its their schtick. some are choreographed some are not.
Delete"They have far too much control over their bodies and heads in space to just accidentally bump lips all the damn time"
Delete"their lips arent touching. scott usually rests his lips above hers so it looks like they are kissing when they're not."
Both of the above statements are true. Tessa and Scott are very much in control of every single movement of their bodies in space. Did anyone really believe them when they said they accidentally kissed during a practice and OH NO! They freaked out! Please. The fake freakout was glaring.
As far as being careful to place lips so it looks like a kiss when it's actually not - Tessa is in full/special makeup for a program. They are very much in control and naturally they will be careful not to be messing with her lipstick. But it's still a kiss. What, just because it's not full on the lips it's not a "real" kiss? Yeah, because that's how people act with a platonic friend. They love to almost kiss but not really kiss. Again - please, give me a break.
"no one is freaking out because they have been doing this forever its their schtick. some are choreographed some are not."
DeleteSome are choreographed, but I feel that most are not. And I think "schtick" is the wrong word, because I don't think they're all that phony. Yeah, they have made sham-related comments about them, but I really think most kisses happen when they're in the zone and really living the program. They love skating and love skating with each other, and I believe that. It's too bad they felt the need to sham about it, but at this point, I care about the skating anyway, and if kissing means they're in the zone and will put down a great performance, that's fine with me.
I wonder if Scott touching Tessa's boob at nationals gala was deliberate as well.
Deletewhat? I missed this!
DeleteDeliberate or not, it shouldn't be a big deal for a mature, long-term dance team to graze breasts, inner thighs etc. As always Meryl and Charlie seem to be the exception to this...I still laugh when I remember how Meryl accidentally copped a feel of Charlie at the end of their Latin SD one time and then promptly looked like she wanted to die.
DeleteYah it happened during hallelujah. He either fondled her breast or hoverhanded her.
DeleteKurt onb the CBC podcast seemed to be upset about WP's result but not VM's. He and PJ still stand by the "either team could win" crap, with PJ actually saying that this event shows that the Sochi gold will be decided by the performances there. What the hell were these people watching? DW are inferior skaters and are not even dancers. They also made mistakes in both program but came out on top. What about that makes one think the results in Sochi will be based on the actual performances on the night?
ReplyDelete12:37 -- Everyone with any official status, like commentators or journalists, has been tip-toeing around this issue for years now. These people are not dumb, they have to know VM are miles ahead of DW in all areas. But this is figure skating. No one allowed to rock the boat. It's b.s.
Delete@12:44
DeleteIt is infuriating that these commentators and journalists won't address this issue. They are willing to rock the boat when talking about BS's score inflation but justify DW's scores. It is funny, because a lot of the criticism of BS applies to DW (Davis's posture isn't as bad as Bobrova's but I actually think Bobrova is a better skater than Davis but they are both sloppy and skate so far apart you could drive a truck between them. At least BS actually skate their programs and don't race around on their toe picks.
At least people in the comments part of that CBC are asking questions. I wish the commentators would do the same.
DeleteI was about to say that there seems to be a policy not to criticize North American skaters- only Russians and Europeans jigger the scoring - but that's not true. It's fine to bitch and complain about Virtue and Moir, or Patrick Chan. But Davis White CANNOT BE CRITICIZED. They cannot be questioned. What IS it with this? There is no other team in that position. No other skater. Michelle Kwan could be criticized.
DeleteDavis White's scores, and Davis White's skating, the past few years, create the exact same combination of tension and hostility that talking about Scott and Tessa's relationship used to create. INCREDIBLE tension. Everybody can't be "conspiring" together, but that Davis White's scores are hugely inflated past what they put on the ice, that it happened again, unfairly, this weekend, is obvious, but people have to calibrate what they say in a way they don't have to with ANY OTHER SKATER. And the figure skating media talk around it or recite talking points and refuse to talk about it. It's a clear tension point, because it stands out. There have been fantastic, dominant skaters in this sport who were not beyond criticism. Where it was normal for people to question their scoring. Where even a commentator could say - well, not their best. I was watching an old tape of G&G where Toller Cranston said this isn't their best. Kwan got it. EVERYBODY gets it. Virtue and Moir get it. Davis White don't.
WHY? They're that perfect? Is that what their fans believe? Unlike every other skater in the history of the sport they haven't had a subpar skate in the past four years? They've been perfect at every outing?
This is certainly the attitude at FSU. Every other skater is fair game, but if anyone utters a word about DW that isn't praise, they are labelled as crazy/hostile/stupid/out to get DW. The Seckret Sources thread is littered with complaints and bashing from overly sensitive ubers.
DeleteSomeone just read in the PbP comments about the judging issues and Rettstatt being discussed in the VM thread and posted this there:
"This was mentioned by a couple of posters in the pbp thread, so I wandered over here to see what y'all were discussing in regard to scoring. I was curious to see if this theory actually has merit, because if it does, then there's a serious flaw in the IJS. I ran some numbers (because that's what I do for a living), and came up with the following:
The lowball judge gave scores of 8.75 8.75 9.25 9.25 9.5. I changed the scores to 9.75 9.5 9.75 9.75 9.75, which would make them neither high nor low (sometimes they'd be tied for one or the other due to the closeness of the rest of the scores). That would bring V/M's PCS up to 54.70, and their total score up to 112.55.
They would have lost by 1.14 instead of 1.28.
I'm posting this here not because I'm an uber of either team (I've seen both skate live and have enjoyed the skating of both), rather that I hate to see conspiracy theories running rampant when they are not based in any kind of fact. I hope those of you who are worried about conspiracies this will run your own numbers and see for yourselves.
Best of luck to both teams in Sochi. One of my professional colleagues had the pleasure of meeting V/M when they filmed a segment for their reality show (I didn't realize they had one) and he said they were charming people."
If the ones being held up in the scores weren't DW, would this poster feel teh same way? I don't see such opposition to conspiracy theories when Russia is thought to be the one making the deals for BS.
Also, it doesn't matter that the amount by which the low scores dropped the total would not have changed the result here--it could at another event. Also, DW didn't deserve any of their scores. They should NEVER be making it into the 9s in PCS...not even the 8s.
The person made a mistake in the total PCS, so I recalculated it. The new total score is correct, they just added the increased amount to the element score rather than the PCS. What the person failed to mention (I assume, I haven't read the thread) is that after adjusting by the same method, V/M would have won the short dance with a score of 77.70.
Delete"12:37 -- Everyone with any official status, like commentators or journalists, has been tip-toeing around this issue for years now. These people are not dumb, they have to know VM are miles ahead of DW in all areas. But this is figure skating. No one allowed to rock the boat. It's b.s."
DeleteThere have got to be a ton of people in the skating world who recognize the judging travesty happening here. Maybe their senses are dulled because this kind of politicking has always happened? Would some serious fan agitation stir things up (emailing Russian journalists, Tracy Wilson, Marjiane Stong, etc.?) Maybe if they see we don't want to put up with this, that may turn the tide? At least wake them up from their coma? Sitting here doing nothing is making me feel powerless.
@6:00
DeleteI think that is a great idea. It will really help if a lot of us email PJ, for example. I am not sure of how to reach Tracy or Marijane. If you can point me to an address, that would be great.
The email of Skate Canada is easy enough to find (skatecanada@skatecanada.ca) but of specific people like Marijane...hmm...
DeleteHow about all you posters out there who have "secret sources"/connections in London/Ilderton? Can you ask these sources for this kind of contact information?
Here's the contact info for Eurosport; I always get the same generic response whenever I write, but hey, obviously my complaint about Nicky Slater's ridiculous comparison of Charlie White to a ballet dancer must have made its way to his inbox, because he made mention of it during the SD warm-up.
DeleteUK Communications
British Eurosport
E: ukcomms@eurosport.com
T: 0845 672 1010 / +44 208 8181 499
Twitter: @EurosportUKTV
Maybe it would also be worth it to contact other international commentators? V/M have a pretty big fan base -- maybe Italian fans could contact the Italian commentators, Spanish fans contact the Spanish commentators, Russian fans contact the Russian commentators, etc. Let's make it clear that we people who truly love ice dance don't like the direction things are going.
DeleteAt this point, it's not even about V/M vs. D/W. It's about all the other teams who are out there truly skating and not getting rewarded. No one is skating like D/W, because only D/W gets to get away with crap. Why?
DeleteIn addition to hitting up the broadcasters/commentators, we need to hit up the media and "journalists"; the Rosie Di Mannos (God help me), Beverly Smith, Cam Smith of the National Post, etc. They need to start asking questions in their editorials and at press conferences, plant seeds of doubt.
DeleteAt competitions, is just the athletes that partake in press conferences? Do any of the organizing committee, ISU or feds get grilled in the press room?
Maybe PJ would share contact info of people like Marijane?
Delete@8:01
Delete"At this point, it's not even about V/M vs. D/W. It's about all the other teams who are out there truly skating and not getting rewarded."
YES.
I am shocked more European fans aren't being vocal about how PB have always been screwed in the marks. People went on and on about how DW should have won the FD or the event based on the FD (even though in addition to their usual technical weaknesses, Meryl looked tight in the last step sequence and deserved to lose a level on it) and completely ignored how poorly DW performed their rhumba sequences. PB had the highest TES and should have been second but were marked below DW on the PCS. This is PB, who have far superior skating skills and can actually dance. At least Zhulin said that they should have been second.
PB should have had that silver medal.
This scoring is hurting so many teams.
@8:54: What else did Zhulin say?
DeleteSo great to see everybody taking action against this injustice...power to the people!
DeleteV/M & D/W remind me of the Kardashians. Tessa & Scott ( reality show ). Meryl & Charlie ( getting rewarded for no talent ). I shouldn't be that mean to Marlie, but just beacuse you & others say how hard you work & still produce no proof of said hard work doesn't make it true.
ReplyDeleteP.S. I think the Canadian commentators have been told to try and keep their opinopns to themselves regarding D/W to create a false rivalry for ratings. If not, it has to do with V/M music selections.
someone just posted in the VM thread why DW should have dropped a level on their twizzles. I would love to see you do a gif, OC!
ReplyDeleteAfter looking at the video a few times, yes, he did stop travelling across the ice. He should have lost a level like that poster said. And he looked wild for the first part. And the GOEs were way too high. Only DW can get away with this kind of stuff.
DeleteAnd now this whole lie about DW having more difficult transitions is being used to justify their win. On what planet is DW's hops and leaps and hand-to-hand skating considered more difficult than VM's one foot skating close together with different holds? And VM aren't the only ones doing this. Lots of other teams manage to connect their elements and build speed without resorting to hopping and skipping. This is the most ass-backwards judging I have ever seen.
ReplyDeleteOn this planet, apparently. :/
DeleteIt upsets me that if DW win in Sochi, in terms of worlds and Olympic gold medals, they'll have the same number as VM. The rest of the record will pit the two teams' remaining medals in their head-to-head comps. Unless the casual observer will dig deeper and look at the circumstances, s/he might come away with the impression that these skaters are equals (or God forbid, that DW is the better team). When that's patently false, and VM are the superior ice dancers.
@3:19
DeleteIt is ridiculous. VM's closest challengers should be PB.
DW not only use their toe picks and flailing arms to fill in their programs, they also skate so far apart you could drive a truck between them. That makes what they are doing even easier. And where are all the holds in the linking footwork/movement? They are required for levels in the step sequences, so they do it there, but holds are also a key aspect of transitions. They again make the transitions more difficult. Again, this is the team that is consistently outscoring teams that do incorporate different holds and edgework, and manage to do so while dancing together.
Don't even get me started on DW's gold medal record.
someone needs to do a feet-only video of just their transitions. There are several hope and there is a whole section of running and skidding just before the last step sequence. It is flashy so people assume it is difficult, but it is not. Yagudin has since been criticized for the running steps in his famous footwork sequence in Winter.
Deletebusyness, rather than actual difficulty, is what is being rewarded. DW are literally running down the ice for that last section, and there are so many leaps and hops I lost count. How anyone could say this is more difficult that VM, PB, the Shibs, is beyond me.
DeleteCassandra changed her profile pic on Fb:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/cassandra.hilborn?fref=ts
Ps.I'm new here :D
OC, someone posted a video on FSU of a lower ranked dance team in one of the dance threads and the girl does the same position as Meryl in the curve lift without her partner having to hold her leg in place for her. It's at around 1:30
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBUjhssgHWs
I wonder how popular 'The Nutcracker' ballet is in the UK, because the commentator obviously did not recognize Tchaikovsky's music. Dance of the Sugarplum Fairy, Waltz of the Flowers (NOT Blue Danube), and the Grand Pas de Deux. I can't place the last section, but considering where the first 3 parts came from, it's safe to say it's also from Nutcracker.
DeleteOC, hope you can write a post on artificial momentum vs reality momentum ... That's what I can see being discussed right now...and a real problem in justifying the ridiculous of judge scoring this GPF...
ReplyDeleteI hope V/M don't become like Bourne/Kraatz and fall jjst because they want to change the sport. They already have. What is up with Canadian teams forgoing medals for the sport? You are NEVER remembered. Win the gold not the dance. WAKE THE FUCK UP. Nobody will remember your skill or technique. Get out of your bubble and listen to people...
ReplyDeleteErr...12:53: VM ARE trying to win this season NOT trying to change the sport. The only problem right now is the judges are fixated on making DW win because I suppose it's their turn...even if it means winning through poor technique and lack of basic skating skills in comparison to even other teams competing in ice dance. I'm sorry if you think for one sec that VM are trying to be like BourneKraatz...they too were unjustifiedly ranked lower by the judges themselves under the old system. The new system was supposed to eradicate that BUT regardless, OC is stating the truth when s/he said ice dance has always been and will continue to be corrupted!
DeleteI don't think Bourne and Kraatz were that good. Too much hydroblading. At times they didn't express the right character for a particular dance. They didn't have VM's deep edges, lines, connection and musicality. That said, while BK should probably have been marked higher in a number of comps, there were others where they should have been marked lower.
Delete@5:45
DeleteBK had issues with posture, line, and unison that they deserved to be marked down for but they definitely had deep edges. If they had worked on these other things in their skating sooner, they maybe could have gotten the results they wanted sooner because they had excellent edge technique.
They were a million times better than DW are now.
I do agree that they are better than DW.
DeleteI hate that programs that aren't busy are seen as less complex than ones that are. And how can VM's program be seen as less complex than DW, of all people? This from the VM thread:
ReplyDelete"When the field in this quad is doing more complex transitions and lifts and steps, it's probably hard for judges to ignore that other couples are doing "more" while Tessa and Scott seem to insist on a less-is-more approach."
No other team is doing programs as complex as VM's in their lifts and their transitions. I don't blame this person--I think they are being influenced by all the talk on FSU and the judges' marks. But the judges should know better. How can they possibly see skipping and running as more difficult than skating on edges? And I am not only talking about VM here. Look at PB, PI, the Shibs. All three of these teams should be scored well ahead of DW in skating skills and transitions. Like someone said above this issue is about all these teams being screwed over.
I see the busy DW programs the way I view those 'artfully shredded' ice dance costumes -- distracting people from what is deficient in the skating/dancing. DW don't 'breathe' in their choreo. It's just go, go, go. No pacing, little control. They lack that ability to slow down when the music, or the dance character calls for it, and in my eyes, this certainly makes them inferior.
Delete@7:13
DeleteThis is all true. The only time you see them change speed is when they have to use their edges--iow, they slow down not because they intend to but because they don't have proper technique. It is because they can't produce speed without toe-picking and dragging and throwing their bodies around. They look so slow in parts of Shez because they are not doing these things. Then they start jumping and running to get their trademark speed.
I find it hilarious that some DW fans have trashed AP (said they couldn't compete with any of the current teams) and GP (said they were nothing but speed), two of the greatest ice dance teams ever. What do they find so lacking in AP's and GP's skating that is there in DW's?
ReplyDeleteDW could only dream of having the technique of GP or AP. Look at the blade runs of these two and compare it with the blade runs of DW. No comparison.
DeleteGP and AP could skate circles around DW.
DeleteThat's why DW fans are trashing them. To contend that DW are good, you have to pretty much decide all the great ice dancers in history weren't that good. Because DW are definitley the "which team is not like the others" in that crowd. They don't have blade run. Their transitions are two footed or running - are not edged. The great teams use their blades. So they have to be overrated.
DeleteOne only needs to compare the compulsory dances of these teams to see who really has the better technique. See GP's Libertango, Meryl and Charlie? That's how you do tango with a partner you're not romantically involved with -- and yet how it sizzled on the ice. Charlie only wishes he could have Platov's posture, lines, carriage, run of blade, expression etc etc.
DeleteThe two teams are worlds apart in technique and expression. GP were amazing technicians and their speed came from proper blade technique. They could also dance as partners to different kinds of music and choreography. They were truly a great team.
DeleteNothing against DW, but they don't even come close.
you know what i hate the most? if v/m are not 110% perfect, d/w are automatically declared the winners even if they have a terrible skate. they only won gpf because of momentum and reputation not because they skated well.
ReplyDeleteand DW do make mistakes all the time. People just assume they are consistent because the score sheets say so.
DeleteDW's momentum and reputation is based on judges either rigging events or completely ignoring what they are seeing.
DeleteIt's not real momentum - they've been GIVEN momentum. They haven't created it with performance. It's predetermined momentum.
DeleteA little off topic but is anyone surprised with CL's deductions at the GPF...I can understand missing it over the first GP at Skate America but for it to be missed again at NHK...and all of a sudden bam at the GPF...and to think that Shpilband knows the rules...also in my opinion some of the lifts that IK are using this year are borderline illegal...Russian nationals and Europeans will be interesting..if IK can improve their SD - I predict that they may sneak in there for the bronze in Sochi (not that I would agree with the result - but the way they have been given high PCS scores this season - its hard to overlook)...
DeleteI'm also curious about the illegal element deduction. Do we have any idea what it was for?
Deletethey did jumps of a full rotation at the same time. they are only allowed to do jumps of half a rotation at the same time or have only one partner do a jump of a full rotation.
DeleteOk, thanks.
DeleteTsn,ca just posted an article from Tracy Wilson and her synopsis from the GPF...really Meryl and Charlie brought their A game...jesus...and how lucky we are to have two great ice dance teams...hmmm I guess job security with NBC is more important...notice how she mentions that VT and Chan perhaps became too comfortable by winning this year...and this perhaps was a reality check for them...Tracy - we all know that it should have been a reality check for DW as well...
ReplyDeleteEt tu, Tracy
DeleteI re-watched VM's skates from the GPF tonight. I had Chan and VT in the back of my mind. What happened with Chan and VT was a check on the men and pairs. Chan and VT faltered while their true rivals skated incredibly well. The end result is that Chan and VT were defeated, showing that things were working fairly.
It's sort of funny. The ISU loves it's appearance of fairness and no corruption. If VM had been allowed the win they deserved here, it would have actually been cover for the ISU's ice dance games. "See, it's fair! VM won this time!" It wouldn't have meant that they still couldn't hand the title over to DW in Sochi as they clearly have planned
Tracy Wilson has sold out.
DeleteShe was the only Canadian commentator I thought would be real. What a shame. VM literally have no one standing up for them except the fans. And the thanks from VM is they keep treating those fans like dirt, with more to come in the reality show. It's all so screwed up.
I guess if Tracy had a daughter - she would be attending Meryl Davis' school of figure skating...case closed...you know learn from the best...the likes of Paul McIntosh and a Barb Underhill must be cringing...
DeleteAnon at 9:22 pm - good points...
Yeah, I think she is just worried about her NBC job. I am so disappointed in her.
DeleteThe mention of VT and Chan make the deficit in DW's skating even more obvious. Both VT and Chan have excellent elements to go along with excellent skating skills. DW are nowhere close.
Perhaps Tracy is just content that there is North American dominance in icedance. But how hypocritical is that. Honestly if DW had strong basic skills - like Chan, VT, SS, Asada, Kostner, Kim etc - I don't think anyone would be upset - with their winning but its the mediocrity that bugs...Actually if there was one person who I'd rather have a conversation with would be Krylova. Seeing all these Russian coaches in ice-dance and what the sport means to them in Sochi and if the result has been predetermined - well how crappy is that.
DeleteHow did they bring their A game when they messed up twizzles in both segments and were noticeably tight? They should have been third in the FD--PB's superior skating, line, posture, and ability to dance should have put them second to VM with DW in third. We are not stupid. We see the weaknesses in DW's skating and the mistakes they make on top of that.
DeleteI don't get it. Are there truly people who think last weekend's performances were DW's A-Game? There were no super-obvious mistakes but everything was a little off and they were clearly tight. The busyness and excitement built into the choreography hides some of this but Tracy of all people should be able to see through it.
Deleteactually i thought the twizzle mistakes were pretty obvious.
Deleteand people who know more about figure skating should see the poor edges, even in the step sequences.
Ok, look, I am as disappointed as the next V/M fan in Tracy's overall approach to this situation. But reading what the article says carefully - she could have been worse. She says V/M have the momentum. She says D/W should be concerned about the narrow lead. V/M had "stunning performances" and D/W "brought their A game too". That's pretty lukewarm for D/W.
Deletebut she shouldn't have said they brought their A game when that is so obviously not true.
DeleteOf course not. But if she HAD to say something like that because of her various contracts, she said it in a tone that sounds uncomfortable to me. I like that better than her praising D/W in the same way she does V/M.
DeleteHere's the link to the article:
Deletehttp://www.tsn.ca/figure_skating/story/?id=438774
Even if NBC forces her to praise DW she still could do it without completely selling her soul and her integrity. But she chose to throw VM and the entire sport under the bus.
Delete@10:17"Honestly if DW had strong basic skills - like Chan, VT, SS, Asada, Kostner, Kim etc - I don't think anyone would be upset - with their winning but its the mediocrity that bugs..."
Deleteexactly.
"but she shouldn't have said they brought their A game when that is so obviously not true."
DeleteWhy isn't it true? They did bring their "A game". D/W's "A game" consists of effed up twizzles, tight skating, hopping, etc. That's the best they can do.
The real problem is not calling out the flaws in their "A game" and questioning the judging.
Frankly, I think the reason Tracy didn't do that is because she already knows D/W will have an undefeated season this year, and nothing she says is going to change that. Why piss off your NBC handlers when you know whatever you say won't help anyway?
I have a question or a comment about your TV broadcast, on-air talent, program or event. Who do I contact?
DeleteIf you have a question or comment about a program or event you saw on TSN, the television network, please direct all enquiries to TSN Audience Relations audiencerelations@tsn.ca or call them at 416-384-7660. From out of province, you can call 1-855-258-7660
Her duties have obviously caused a conflict of interest and a loss of the journalistic integrity that we all valued so much from Tracy. Why is she still writing for tsn if she is muzzled by nbc. There is no way dw have improved so much since last year that they deserve nothing but praise.
Because TSN pays her. Why does anyone do anything?
DeleteIs it just me or are DW the slowest out of all these teams?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mfyN5Y6sH4
And Meryl has to hop up while in hold to generate speed.
That is hilarious. Thanks for the link.
DeleteGPF comparisons
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/spywaxfecW0
http://youtu.be/xysqlgcn5oU
I posted a comment earlier about how people should look at compulsories to really see the technique. By coincidence, the FSU poster The Accordion uploaded CD training vids in the Tessa & Scott thread. They showed young VM in the beginning, then Usova & Zhulin for the rest of the videos. :) I don't know about you, but I think it the highest compliment to your skating and ice dancing skills to be asked to demonstrate CDs, as it implies to ice dance trainees 'this is how it should be done' and 'this is what you should strive for'.
ReplyDeleteFourteen Step: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n13RcjyX0nw
European Waltz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvncVAD4MY8
Foxtrot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Eg1febRVR0
I also came across a few training vids featuring Grishuk/Platov:
Quickstep (with Dubreuil/Lauzon) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRxHXjRwwNY
Starlight Waltz (around the 1:50 mark): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdCCVGCtBVs The main coupled featured is Rakhamo/Kokko, I think
Bonus junior VM cameo (approx. 2:30-2:47) in Golden Waltz training vid, demonstrating wrapped Kilian hold: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_miauiWzl5k
Don't you just love how the men in these training vids carry themselves? Zhulin and Platov had such beautiful lines and posture (and connection!).
DeleteFantastic stuff. What's great about it is that V&M were so young here, so you know they're being chosen based on true talent, not name value (not to say that any of the other skaters here didn't deserve the honor... just thinking how I could totally see the ISU now putting D&W in a video like this because they are "world champions").
Deletei'm convinced that if CD were still around, not even fake judging DW could give them a fake win. The new format hurts VM.
ReplyDeleteJudges would still find a way to fake score them. Look at GPF; the judges actually scored D/W's shit Finnstep patterns higher. Unbelievable.
Delete@8:12
DeleteI agree. The Finnstep scoring was one of the most fucked up parts of the GPF scoring. DW's Finnstep patterns were poorly executed but of course that doesn't matter when it is DW. This sport is such garbage.
Looks like Piper might have gotten her Canadian citizenship. I guess this spells the end for P/I's Olympic hopes. Fuck.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?41346-Piper-Gilles-Citizenship-Drive-in-Time-for-Sochi&p=804914&viewfull=1#post804914
Yeah, I read that, too. I wouldn't have a problem with this if G/P deserved the scoring heaped upon them. At least Kaitlyn *earned* hers.
DeleteSad for Paul/Islam if it's true. Sad to say that their only hope for an Olympic spot was Gilles not getting her citizenship on time. I do respect G/P for the improvements they've made this season but it's too little, too late.
DeleteGP are nowhere near PI in ability, and it sucks that the judges pretend GP are superior and constantly prop them up. This is sad news.
DeleteThis was a link on P/B's Facebook page; no love for D/W in the comments section:
ReplyDeletehttp://icedanceanalysts.blogspot.fr/2013/12/the-fun-steps-of-finnstep-identifying.html
It looks like most of the commentators are the same people who post on this blog, so I'm not surprised.
Delete@7:41
DeleteI just read the comments section and it is nice to see people speaking up. Are the people commenting from this site? Because I think a lot of PB fans have been confused by DW's marks and placements over PB. The issues mentioned are ones that ice dancing fans have been noticing for a long time judging by the figure skating boards.
@7:41
Delete"It looks like most of the commentators are the same people who post on this blog, so I'm not surprised."
Why do you say that?
Because that blog was pointed out on this site a few days ago, and the way the comments are phrased/written/word choice is extremely similar to posts on this site. I get that different fans can come to the same conclusions, but the way these comments are written it seems like it may be the same posters that visit this site.
Delete5:23
DeleteI've been seeing many similar comments in different forums this season, most notably some threads at FSU. However, I don't think it makes any difference if some of the same people are here, on an icedance blog, at other skating forums - wherever. The comments are valid. DW have crappy technique and no one had felt the freedom to make a fuss about that before last Worlds.
I'm more than happy that finally the fans are calling it like it is. DW are not deserving of their high scores. At most, they should be in the pack fighting for 5th-6th place. VM and other teams, like P/B and the Shibs have far better technique and overall skating skills but they are continually marked lower than DW. This is a corruption scandal in ice-dance.
As far as I'm concerned, the same people (whoever they are) can post all over the internet calling attention to DW's overscoring and the lowballing of the other teams. Good for them.
^ exactly who gives two shits if they have multiple accounts as well. and just because they do so doesnt give anyone the right to harass them
DeleteP/B has been screwed by the judges and their own fed, but maybe Didier, the head of their fed, actually be useful for once and call out the BS judging.
Deletewe need to acknowledge that virtue moir beat them with funny face, and if Tessa didn't have a panic attach at 4CCs last year, they would have beaten them there. yes the fix is in, but it's not as obvious as you think.
ReplyDeleteWho cares how obvious it is? If the fix is in, the fix is in, and that's what we're upset about.
DeleteAnd its not just the fix to "award" D/W gold over V/M; it is the fix to fuck over all the other worthy teams that actually skate and dance their programs, P/B and the Shibs especially.
Delete8:39, you make no sense. The fix is in but it's only partially in and we needn't worry so much? It's pretty obvious after the shameful scoring at the GPF that VM are not going to beat DW. It doesn't matter what happens on the ice - a clean VM will never be as good as even a flawed DW.
DeleteInteresting theory on Tessa having a panic attack though.
"And its not just the fix to "award" D/W gold over V/M; it is the fix to fuck over all the other worthy teams that actually skate and dance their programs, P/B and the Shibs especially."
Deleteexactly. i wish they would throw ice dance out of the Olympics
It's been my theory for awhile now that Tessa had a panic attack. and what could be worse than going into that upside down lift when you're panicking? She must have known in the back of her mind that stopping was an option, because she had gotten away with it before, even if it was an involuntary thing and not something she could control.
DeleteI can't help but ponder if the judges and other people in the sport started turning on V/M after this. A last straw.
I completely disagree with you 7:04. Tessa was not panicking going into that lift and she was not the one that stopped it--it was Scott. HE was the one who didn't put the lift up. I believe them when they say it was a leg cramp.
DeleteOC has commented before that Tessa is like a racehorse. If she were a horse, she'd run on a broken leg. As Scott was the one who put the stop on things, that makes me feel certain that it wasn't a panic attack. She's also favoring that left leg like a wounded animal would, not quite putting her full weight on it, and trying, it seemed, to get that leg muscle to move under her control.
I disagree with you, 7:20. It looked like Scott was ready to put the lift up, and Tessa was the one who stopped it. I think it was a leg cramp, and she knew she wouldn't be able to get into the position. You can almost see Scott urging her into the lift because he knows they're going to miss the timing, until he realizes that she couldn't do the lift.
DeleteI think there was something seriously wrong with Tessa's leg at Worlds too. Whatever happened at 4CCs wasn't fully fixed by Worlds.
Someone said that they were sitting next to a contractor who had worked on renovating Tessa's home and he told her that Tessa had an injured ankle at Worlds. Who knows whether that's the truth or not but something definitely was up with Tessa then.
Delete"She must have known in the back of her mind that stopping was an option, because she had gotten away with it before, even if it was an involuntary thing and not something she could control."
DeleteHow did she "get away with it" before? Getting away with it implies she knew she could take a break and still win. The only other time they stopped mid-performance, they withdrew, so they didn't get away with anything. And they really wanted/needed to win 4CC 2013 and were leading after SD so I'm certain she wouldn't have stopped if there were any possibility of getting through the program. V&M knew stopping would drop them to second because the scores were so tight.
Excellent points, 9:33.
DeleteVM knew what the stop would do. They knew that they needed to win 4CC to set themselves up for worlds, which they needed to set themselves up for this season.
That stop was the moment they lost Sochi though. The big reason that VM lost worlds wasn't the twizzle bobble in the SD. It was that DW were overscored. DW were given that grossly inflated 77 before VM skated. It was a bar they were going to have to jump over and a bar I don't think would have been set that high if they hadn't stopped at 4CC and gone on to win. Once VM were so far behind after the SD, the judges weren't going to give them the FD win because saving face was more important than judging correctly. After DW's win at worlds and an undefeated season, VM were never going to be allowed to beat them ever again. This fact was proved at the GPF.
Better to withdraw, placing an asterisk next to D/W's win (injured V/M vs. healthy D/W), rather than complete the program and still lose (healthy V/M loses).
DeleteITA, 4:31.
DeleteReally, 4:31 and 5:11?
DeleteVM had won the SD. They were winning the FD when they had to stop. VM are FIERCE competitors and are not afraid of DW.
If VM had completed that FD without interruption at 4CC (remember, they didn't withdraw), they would have won the competition. Why on earth people think that that stop at 4CC has done anything to help VM is beyond me.
I'm 5:11, and I understood 4:31's comments to mean "once they were forced to stop skating because they could not physically continue, it would have been better to withdraw." And as you say, they won the SD and were winning the FD until they stopped, so it would have been a win with an asterisk for D&W, with people questioning whether V&M might have won had they not stopped. It was actually very brave and bold of V&M to continue on, knowing that it was unlikely they'd win after a stop.
DeleteAll of this bullshit would have been avoided, of course, if the judges had just given them the win at GPF they deserved (there were no mistakes), and then they would have been 1-1 going into Worlds.
Ohhhhh. I get you now. I think my default is set to defending VM that I just made the assumption. I'm sorry for that, and with that explanation, understand where you're coming from.
DeleteNo problem.... I totally get what you mean about having to defend them all the time.
Deletemeaning, it may not be that obvious to non-super fans, or casual Olympics observer because VM did beat them with funny face more than once, and could have and would have beat them with Carmen at 4ccs but for her unfortunate panic attack. AND if they had not screwed up the short dance at worlds last year, who knows.... point is, its NOT that obvious to casual observer which is 99% of the people out there.
ReplyDelete?? The casual observer will believe whatever the commentators are saying. In the US, the commentators will say that D/W are awesome and deserve to win. In Canada, the commentators will say D/W and V/M are exactly the same and whoever is the winner totally deserves the win. Whatever is said in other countries doesn't matter none of them have any influence over the top two spots.
DeleteIcePrincess from FSU made some great videos where she simply switched the music of DW's and VM's programs with the music of their previous programs. It's hilarious, DW hit every note of the music, especially Giselle and My Fair Lady are pretty much exact replicas of one another while VM's choreography doesn't fit to their previous programs at all.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/user/iceprincess0193?feature=watch
Wow, D/W's SD this year and last year are pretty much the same, choreographically. What is unsettling is how their interpretation remains unchanged in these dances...
DeleteHaha, cool idea. The only one that really works in V/M's case is Seasons with Mahler's music. Whereas most of D/W's work just fine.
DeleteIt would have been better if D/W had just re-used the Giselle music for this year's SD, thereby sparing us that God-awful "I could have danced all night" shit.
DeleteD/W probably going to whine about this in the sekret sources or on their twitter account and accuse V/M fans as being crazy lol because that;s all they know how to do
DeleteD/W ubers*
DeleteI find MFL too close to DF. They even used some of the exact same movements. So part of the issue is they use very similar or the same transitions from year to year. Another issue is that they do everything at pretty much one speed. And these are the WR holders. Great job there, ISU.
DeleteIf I were the ISU, I'd definitely give D/W Sochi gold. There's a possibility of increased skating visibility and making more money with USA cheesefests, reviving tours and negotiating a chunk of the proceeds, and generally keep the gravy train running. You know people like Tanith Belbin, Scott Hamilton, Kristi Yamaguchi, etc., are chomping at the bit to get big audiences watching skating again. D/W probably aren't the most charismatic people, but the people around them (Tanith, etc) are, and they'll know how to get this machine running. Maybe Michelle Kwan will even join in. I'm sure she'll sending lots of supporting tweets to D/W now that her account is running. D/W aren't like Evan Lysacek, who is nothing but completely lame. D/W are savvy and know (as we can see) how to make lot of something out of absolutely nothing.
DeleteOTOH, give the gold to V/M...and what will the ISU get? Some discount vouchers to Shoeless Joe's? Please.
@6:58: the US public doesn't care about ice dancing. They want/need a US woman at the top of the podium.
DeleteLook at London Worlds; the biggest story was not that D/W "won", but rather, that the US women secured three spots for Sochi.
The US doesn't care about ice dancing but it does care about winning. They care about ladies because they have 7 Olympic Gold medals. The US doesn't care about soccer, either, but win the World Cup a few times and then they will. They are just slow on the uptake with ice dance because they haven't yet won gold. DWTS got very popular for a few years so families/even men have grown accustomed to watching bullshit sequined competitions who are judged on famewhoreness and likeability with no real criteria, so they should have no problem picking up ice dance. It would help to have an Olympic Champion as pretty as Tanith though.
DeleteExactly. NBC isn't the bunch of idiots people think they are. They will market ice dance at the Olympics using DWTS (appearances by Derek Hough, etc). They know the people watching are women, who will drag their husbands/boyfriends to watch as well. None of these viewers want to see a silver medalist. Add the story of how likeable D/W are, and how they deserve gold this time around, and you've got a winning combo.
DeleteAnon at 9:07 pm - have to disagree with you on a couple of points. Dancing with the Stars is an ABC production and Derek Hough is basically an ABC personality. Why would NBC even mention Derek Hough or DWTS...we all know networks are very proprietary...there is no interesting story there to sell...if there was - NBC would have done it a while ago. Now that Evan Lysacek is out of the picture - I think this benefits Ashley Wagner..she is likeable and comes from military family...and because of the time zone difference with Sochi...these Olympics will not be the same as Vancouver...
DeleteEvan Lysacek won gold in 2010...did that boost figure skating in North America - nope...has Patrick Chan, Virtue Moir, Davis White revitalized an interest in skating in North America - not really. After these Olympics and after the 2014 shows, we will see less of Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Daisuke Takahashi, Virtue Moir etc...although there are always new skaters etc - these are pretty big shoes to fill...I mean look at each discipline - once you get outside the top 5-6 - the talent is not deep. Skating still does well in Japan and Russia - but now there are more sports to choose from. Hell - if I had to put my daughter in a sport - tennis and golf would be no-brainers. And these sports have already challenged figure skating. Golf - in Asia is starting to hit its stride.
I mean Procter and Gamble being a main sponsor at these Olympics - not bad but it ain't Cadillac, IBM etc...I also have to say - when anon at 9:07 am says that none of these viewers want to see a silver medalist - I disagree. Joannie Rochette became a household name because of the circumstances she was dealt - not because of her skating. People watched because they wanted to see how she would handle the pressure. If she skated clean - a feel good story. If she bombed - people would understand and still the media would have said - she gave it a try. It was a win-win for the media. You hate to say it - but a tragedy was a selling point for Rochette.
If Phil Hersh can't come around and sell figure skating to the US...I don't think that NBC will exactly kill themselves to sell figure skating either...when was the last time a network showed the US Stars on Ice?
"Exactly. NBC isn't the bunch of idiots people think they are. They will market ice dance at the Olympics using DWTS (appearances by Derek Hough, etc). They know the people watching are women, who will drag their husbands/boyfriends to watch as well. None of these viewers want to see a silver medalist. Add the story of how likeable D/W are, and how they deserve gold this time around, and you've got a winning combo."
DeleteCouldn't disagree more.
Politics are certainly behind the scoring bulllshit, but some of you are taking that assessment and extrapolating to the point of ridiculousness. The USFSA wants a gold medal for D/W because it's never had one in ice dance and it's the discipline easiest to manipulate. That's it.
Stop letting your righteous anger about D/W's scores color how you analyze EVERYTHING. There is not some great ISU-USFSA conspiracy afoot to revitalize the popularity of skating on the backs of Meryl Davis and Charlie White. It's not going to happen, EVER. I don't care if NBC runs specials on them every single day in Sochi (it won't). They will never be the USFSA's media darlings, gold medal or no gold medal. That position will always be held by a singles skater, either male or (preferably) female. THAT is what sells figure skating in the United States and always will (when it sells at all). Meryl and Charlie will not headline skating tours, that's laughable. No one would come just to watch them because they're ice dancers.
Figure skating will always be a niche sport, and ice dance is the most niche of them all. That is never going to change and I'll tell you why. Because Michelle Kwan couldn't change the niche factor.
http://cs616817.vk.me/v616817512/5889/SjTpNU8UMR8.jpg Wonder who those people VM are talking to?
ReplyDeleteThe FSU commentary on Gracie Gold's SP is priceless. She changed the music and all of a sudden everyone is in awe and it's a great program. Scary thing I expect no better from the judges at this point.
ReplyDeleteyep. this is what figure skating has become.
DeleteWhy isn't Gracie being raked over the coals for her racist tweet? a lot of people on FSU hate on Scott for things he has said...interesting what they overlook...
DeleteThe TV series is getting closer and there's starting to be lots of promos. This is an older article but I hadn't seen it. Those are some big-name media agencies involved in this thing, it's not just the WNetwork.
Deletehttp://finance.yahoo.com/news/w-network-launches-highly-anticipated-181000751.html
There's been discussion here on the blog about none of the media agencies giving a damn whether any of Scott and Tessa's narratives are true or not. As long as it makes a good story they can all cover their asses saying they didn't know and/or they're just going along with what VM tell them, blah blah blah.
Still. With more than one media company involved in this thing and providing funds, it seems someone somewhere would have a major fit if they knew for sure VM are outright hoaxing the public with every word they say about their personal lives. How does this not become a scandal? Look how fast Roots dropped them. Surely these other agencies aren't less sensitive about their images?
What Gracie said was disgusting, and what's worse is that she didn't even own up to it. That people overlook that is really sad. I don't even think I saw a thread on FSU about it, and the one on GS was full of people defending her and attacking anyone who called her out. A lot of people who post on these boards are complete idiots who only take issue with something that is said by their favourite skater's rival(s) or by skaters from a country that is not their own.
DeleteGracie is 17 years old--she is old enough to be held responsible for what she says.
It was discussed on FSU, but in the U.S. Ladies general discussion thread and somewhere in one of the Sekret Sources threads. There was a split there as well.
Delete"Look how fast Roots dropped them. Surely these other agencies aren't less sensitive about their images?"
DeleteHow do you know the hoax is the reason Roots dropped them? And how do you know Roots dropped them, and it wasn't the other way around?
All the promos make Scott look like the gay best friend of Tessa. Hope he's happy with that image.
I'm not so sure the reality show producers don't know of their true status. The goal of a "reality" show is to tell a narrative storyline. They have writers and outline plots just like scripted series.
DeletePredictably a DW uber came into the VM thread to tell off the person who made the videos that switched up the music from their different programs.The funny thing is, the poster didn't alter the videos--they just fit because DW do the same movements with the same emphasis for most of their dances and they don't know how to do different rhythms, If others are seeing it, it's not the original poster's fault.
ReplyDelete3:06, But it's being Meeeaaannn to DW. Only bad, insecure VM fans are meeeaaann to DW. Any and all criticism of DW is from people who just can't see their greatness. How dare anyone say anything against them!
Delete(Bwahahahaha)
The funny thing is, by getting mad at the comparisons, that poster admitted that DW look like they are skating teh same program all the time.
DeleteSo Chris Hosworth, one of the Eurosport guys, while commentating during the exhibition, said that Meryl and Charlie will finish "...their amazing careers with an Olympic gold medal.". He obviously knows something the rest of us don't, and can't even be bothered to keep it a secret (go to the 3:40 mark).
ReplyDeleteAlso, I love how Charlie has to boost Meryl's butt into position of that lift in the slow-mo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9Tl4oyuTv4
Um, it kind of sounded to me like "..will Meryl and Charlie.. finish off an amazing career.. with a gold medal in Sochi..." The way I heard it, I thought he phrased it like a question and not a statement. Not like USFSA twitter's slip of the tongue earlier in the season.
Delete