The 23-year-old Virtue and Moir, 25, have long stated they want to leave the sport of ice dancing better for having had them in it.Show me, Lori Ewing. Okay, so Scott lies (pretending people have bashed Carmen) and then proclaims that what he just made up is off base, because people are clueless about who he and Tessa really are. Isn't that the fucking point, Scott? When you lie to people for 5-7 years about who you are? Only they would lie and then turn around and get snide because people fell for it. But typical.
They're known for pushing the envelope, but a few skating fans believe they've pushed it too far this season. Some fans apparently don't approve of their sexy free program to "Carmen."
Virtue and Moir admit to having received some hurtful comments about the program they'll skate Sunday that opens with Virtue running her hand provocatively up Moir's thigh.
"It's always tough to get criticism or comments on a program," Moir said. "To be honest sometimes it's just funny to get the personal comments because people think they know who you are from what you do out on the ice, but they really don't have a clue."
P.S. - I want to re-state that Scott and Tessa are lying about their own fans on the web. He's pretending Carmen is outside the comfort zone of many Virtue Moir fans, who commenced to confuse Tessa with Carmen and who want them to skate Mahler type stuff forever.
He is not saying "people are criticizing us on the web." or "Fans of our rivals are bashing Carmen." Since when is it news that there are rival fan factions on the web? They've been there forever and VM have never cared. Fans of D/W, btw, would never pretend to confuse Tessa with Carmen - their whole posture is that Tessa is bland and white bread, cold on the ice, not passionate like Meryl. To them, saying Tessa is like Carmen would be giving her points and they don't want to do that.
When I cut and pasted the round-up of figure skating discussion pages, I included ontd_skating. As noted, there are fans of Scott and Tessa on ontd_skating, but the most vocal fans chew Scott's ass every time Scott opens his mouth. They think he's a tool. These are not the fans Scott was talking about either, if you actually listen to what he was lying about. He doesn't care about fans of their rivals who dislike everything VM do. That doesn't sell anything. That doesn't create a story. That's not news.
This is what they pretend is news. Saying Carmen is outside the comfort zone of their own fans. That the performance has convinced some fans Tessa is like Carmen.
That last is something VM bashers would never EVER do - it would be too much like a compliment and give Tessa too much credit.
Basically, their own fans are unsettled by Carmen, and want their nice safe romantic lyrical Scott and Tessa back.
It's not non-VM fans this is aimed towards. It's their own fans. As usual. And, as usual, it is a lie.
___________________________
So my own comments below don't become miles longer than they already are, this is the message from Scott and Tessa for Canadians: Scott said "personal comments" hurt. The wordpress article below used to validate Scott's remarks was a skating criticism, and a self-serving one at that (by a DW fan). But Scott and Tessa's hype was that the program wasn't critiqued on a skating basis, but there was a backlash due to content. It was too risque. And people were associating Tessa with Carmen. And of course they were "hurt" because they always make up a reason to martyr themselves and then peddle it in interviews.
Second, as the blog pointed out, the Manti T'eo hoax was considered newsworthy. Nobody said "So what if the guy made up a girlfriend that never existed and then killed her off in a car crash, and got positive publicity from the "tragedy". Who did he hurt? So what if thousands of people extended their sympathy and support to him and admired him - who cares?"
So who cares that Scott and Tessa have marketed a hoax that their relationship is a unique "platonic passion"? Who cares that they withdrew from the 4CCs because she'd given birth relatively recently and they preplanned the withdrawal, and not because she had a quad spasm? Who cares that they went around media outlets while she was pregnant, marketing "platonic passion" and instructing the romance question to be raised so they could shoot it down? They're not platonic, but who cares that they insisted they were, that they built their self-promotion around not just saying they were, but mocking fans who they said believed differently.
And who cares if they basically lied about those fans too? Most fans believed them. If they didn't, they kept it down low.
But who cares that Tessa and Scott lie about their fans in order to reinforce the scam they're pushing?
Why is Manti T'eo being given a hard time anyway?
Maybe it's because a major sports news operation fell for it. It's okay if tabloids, social media, and fans fall for it. Is that our hierarchy?
The platonic part gets every bit of the emphasis that the passion part does - even more. Of course, thankfully for mainstream media, they've shied away from falling into the Manti T'eo trap with Virtue Moir. NBC didn't touch the Jessica/Scott/Bryce supposed storyline during Vancouver, never mentioned that Scott Moir was dating his teammate, Jessica Dube, and neither Tom Hammond nor Tracy Wilson acknowledged Jessica with the Moir family even when the NBC camera was trained on that group with Jessica dead center. They certainly gave the spotlight to other Olympic teammates who were dating. But not Jessica/Scott. Why do you think that is? It's because Virtue and Moir want the benefits of lying to the public but not the penalties. And as long as they go the social media and tabloid route, they believe they can have it both ways.
Why do you think Tessa and Scott prefer to give their interviews to the entertainment or tabloid media when they want to market stuff they've faked?
Why is it none of our business that Tessa and Scott decided to "write" a book, and that while Tessa was pregnant, went around on a book tour advertising that the book was worth buying because fans who purchased it would get real behind the scenes, never before told stuff? And because Scott and Tessa wanted the profit from revealing themselves without revealing themselves, they made up something to reveal? The dramatic center of the book - their estrangement after her surgery - was every bit equal to the fantasy of T'eo's dead girlfriend.
I think many fans who object to the blog would have no objection if NBC or a mainstream outlet decided to expose Scott and Tessa. They are just furious that a mere fan has started a blog about it. They apparently share the same view of fans that Scott and Tessa do - that they shouldn't have a voice. Scott and Tessa have used social media to exploit fans, but social media can't be used to call them out - and since when is that the law of social media?
http://www.thestar.com/sports/figureskating/article/1317440--canadian-figure-skating-championships-ice-dancers-tessa-virtue-scott-moir-seal-revamped-routine-with-kiss
ReplyDeleteWhat's being saved for worlds?!? A kiss on ice in front of the world?!
IMO it doesn't mean anything. If you've been following them for some years you realize they tend to tease like this because they know how the public interprets things. It's just VM being VM. Means nothing.
ReplyDeleteThey tease like this and then BRAG that the public "hasn't a clue."
DeleteIt's not nice.
DeleteThen they also use the public's reaction as their reason for needing barriers. Tessa, in that e-talk interview a couple years ago, mentioned several times their need for "barriers" between them and the public.
However, seeing some recent conversations taking place at a certain facebook page dedicated to VM (including today with their talk of sending private messages to Scott's family and friends) I must admit it's easy to see how creeped out they could get and from there start thinking that's representative of the regular fans (and it's not!).
I hate to say it but I'm getting a perverse amount of pleasure from the stupidity of that facebook group today. Looking forward to your continued existence JDLSM.
DeleteAnon 7:47--You're not the only one! I am also looking forward to this blogs continued existance. The reactions when this place stays put should be priceless. I'm sure the conclusion that should be drawn won't be though.
Delete7:47 and 8:13
DeleteMe too!!
Lol, talk about stupidity. Not a brain cell among them.
Scott's looking for clueless fans? Well, there they are, a group of 10-15 on facebook.
The Scott and Tessa facebook page is a community tied together by their interest in Scott and Tessa. The community aspect - as with almost all fandoms - is much stronger than their preoccupation with Scott and Tessa themselves. Every single public figure of any youth has fans that speculate about them. Meryl and Charlie have fans that deconstruct their on ice chemistry and gestures. Tanith Belbin, when a teen-ager, was the subject of a ton of colorful speculation and gossip on mainstream figure skating message boards. Michelle Kwan's sexuality was the topic of open speculation among fans of some of her rivals, particularly Sasha Cohen. Katia Gordeeva was probably the target of the most intense internet gossip any figure skater has ever experienced, some from her own fans who were furious that she found romance after Sergei, others from people who just wanted to stick it to her fans and claimed she was having an affair with Kurt Browning. There's even someone running around at the moment claiming while married to Sergei she had an affair with Zhulin.
DeleteI would submit that it was a lot worse for these skaters. Gordeeva trained at rink in Connecticut that was open to the public and a lot of fans took it upon themselves to quietly stalk her there. They didn't bug her, they just "reported" what she did on the fan boards. They'd stalk the lobby and the SOI bus. Cohen had her own clutch of intense ultra fans.
At the end of the day - this is noise. In real life, it means you've got a bunch of strangers chatting to the air on the web. It has no impact on your actual life - public or private at all. Even the so-called "stalkers" are more of a nuisance and possibly not any worse than people you actually know gossiping about your business (and all skaters have those).
Even in this competition with their interviews, Scott and Tessa revealed their weird preoccupation with themselves and how they're perceived. Take Scott's 'haven't got a clue.' Why does he give a shit? Fans don't have a clue about any figure skater based on their performance on ice, not just Scott and Tessa. It's not some unique position - hell, it's true of many people every day who go to work and keep their private life separate. Shit, that was the reality of gay people's lives for years and years and years. And we've seen how much respect some Moirs in the past have shown towards THAT reality.
DeleteThey are so committed to this view of themselves that they made up adversaries and obstacles on the web. There's nobody on the web criticizing Carmen as too sexy, and shame on all of the reporters who reported it as fact based on what Scott and Tessa claimed. Shame on the reporter who repeats anything they say as fact at all (like the reporter who recently repeated the lip bump story - is he an idiot?).
I now believe that the reasons Scott and Tessa have given to those around them for shamming are bogus. But they include not wanting to have their decisions and choices second guessed. They don't want the stress.
First of all, nobody put a gun to their head to force them to make the decisions they've made. It's their life, they need to own it. They don't need to justify it to anyone - whether fans or, more likely the billion busybodies in their community. Shut up, as most smart skaters would do - and don't be so preoccupied with what people think and say. They are so unbelieveably fixated on that, it makes no sense at all. They even make shit UP, and it's always fans who are the scapegoat.
Hello people - everything they do is known by their community and many more. Whatever second guessing goes on is going on among those people, and they're not shy about it. Are fans just surrogates for Scott and Tessa' community? Are they getting worked over because Scott and Tessa feel like their hands are tied when it comes to controlling the gazillion people they know who feel a claim on them?
There is no way that fans can bring more pressure to bear on them than that, none. But that cat is already out of the bag - their community already knows their status, so it makes sense for them to deal with it and put on their big people pants, instead of running a shell game, an avoidance game, manipulating, buffering, and all of the other nonsense.
They reflect very badly on their communities. Anyone from a different background, different community, would understand that everybody gets talked about to a degree, whether you're a local hero or a national hero. It comes with dinner. Get a little perspective and shrug it off. They don't get it. They're Scott and Tessa. They've somehow been raised to believe and enabled to continue thinking that their situation - public figures who have to tolerate both a community and on line interest in their lives - is unprecedented.
"There's nobody on the web criticizing Carmen as too sexy, and shame on all of the reporters who reported it as fact based on what Scott and Tessa claimed."
DeleteThere definitely has been people who've claimed Carmen to be way too sexy and distasteful. It's a program that you either love or hate. Haters are mostly D/W fans though..
Those comment's were mostly on twitter during skate canada, when T/S unveiled the program..
Anon 10:02, I do remember those comments on twitter about Carmen when the program was debuted at Skate Canada. Certainly, NO ONE has said that Tessa was like Carmen, but there were the handful of comments calling the program distasteful, vulgar, etc. The #publiccunnilingus tag was particularly eye-roll inducing. A few more comments came after Rostelcom Cup. Scott had a nosebleed after the FD and somemone on twitter made a very distasteful comment. There were also a few stray comments in other places discussing the program, all from D/W ubers. I also remember a few stray comments from a tiny handful of V/M fans who said they more preferred something in the vein of UoC or Mahler.
DeleteThe twitter comments were mostly from a small group of D/W ubers who are incredibly nasty towards Virtue-Moir at all times. It wouldn't have mattered what VM skated to this season; these people were going to trash it and say nasty things. They should have been ignored though.
So, yes, there have been comments made on the nature of the program.
VM fans didn't dislike the program. It was the hard core fans of other skaters that dislike anything Scott and Tessa do. When it's Mahler, Scott and Tessa are skating to boring romantic glop. When it's Carmen, it's vulgar.
DeleteThat's not what Scott was doing. He was pretending their own fans wanted him and Tessa to keep skating to programs where they look at each other and sigh, that their own fans wanted to box them in.
What D/W fans or other internet commentators say is irrelevent. Scott was talking about their own fans, and lying about them.
So just to emphasize, Scott wasn't talking about DW ubers. He meant HIS fans. It suited him and Tessa to pretend their own fans only wanted romance novel programs. That is an absolute lie.
DeleteThe hard core D/W fans hate everything they do, including the romantic programs and have for years. To them, Mahler was boring and empty. To them, Scott and Tessa are cold technicians. This is nothing new. These people aren't "fans" to Scott and Tessa. When they now tell the media "fans" are critical of Carmen, they mean THEIR fans, not the same fans who hate everything they skate. Where is the news in telling the media that the hard core fans of their biggest rivals pretend to dislike Carmen? That's a non-story.
The story is it's too daring and sexy for their own fans, and their own fans want them to keep sighing and swooning on the ice. Again, that is nowhere on the web anywhere.
Scott said: “There are people who kind of get stuck on what we call the classic Virtue-Moir, who want to see us just look into each other’s eyes and sigh". He didn't say our fans want us to always skate mahler or that our fans don't like Carmen. Jesus why did i even bother. You're so into your own conspiracy theory that you will twist whatever they may do or say to fit it. It doesn't matter what they do, you will always find something to complain about. If there ever was an award for craziest figure skating fan it would belong to you hands down.
DeleteScott & Tessa specifically targeted internet fans and the media ran with it.
DeleteThe story was that there was a "backlash, primarily on the internet." What is the media's source for that statement, repeated in many outlets?
Tessa and Scott themselves. THEY are the source for that.
The media certainly didn't check it out first hand - because there's no such backlash. And nowhere on the web are there fans who are "stuck" and complain they just want "classic Virtue Moir."
When Scott said "there are people who get stuck on the classic Virtue Moir, who want to see us just look into each other's eyes and sigh", it is those people, he is saying, who are critical of Carmen, who associate Tessa with Carmen.
So what the blog did was try to find the fans are "stuck on classic Virtue Moir" who "just want to see us look into each other's eyes and sigh". Where are they?
Is it DW fans? DW fans have mocked the "classic" Virtue Moir for years now - they're not stuck there and they are certainly not fans of Classic Virtue Moir.
Is it the media that dislikes Carmen, that wants to see them look into each other's eyes and sigh?
Absolutely not - the media kisses their ass while talking about these nonexistent internet fans and their hang-ups and backlash.
It is Scott and Tessa feeding this shit to the many outlets and commentators that just ran with it as fact. Where else do you think they got it? Where?
They got this crap from Scott and Tessa nobody else.
IFPress repeated it, a tsn commentator repeated it. This was their pre-determined media message for this Canadians.
Since you are so frustrated with what you think are distortions by this blog, please point out where on the web there are fans who are stuck on the classic, romantic Virtue Moir, the fans who just want to see them look into each other's eyes and sigh. Go find them. There are enough of them, according to VM, that it "filtered" down to Scott and Tessa, despite them both shunning the web.
Please share, if you would, where you think the media got the backlash on the internet idea from, where they got the idea Carmen has been criticized for being too sensual - and the media is talking about unusual, Carmen-specific criticism, not fan bashing and fan wars, which is all that the DW twitter slams represent, as VM know perfectly well.
You don't think Scott and Tessa are saying this? The media didn't get this from Virtue Moir themselves?
The irony is that on the internet - and it is the Virtue Moir internet fandom that is specifically targeted here - the program that the smaller group of vocal fans took a long time to warm up to was Funny Face. They LOVE Carmen.
oc, not logged in
"Since you are so frustrated with what you think are distortions by this blog, please point out where on the web there are fans who are stuck on the classic, romantic Virtue Moir, the fans who just want to see them look into each other's eyes and sigh. "
Deletehttp://fromtheboards.wordpress.com/2012/12/04/824/
"I do appreciate the attempt at something new for Virtue and Moir. I get where they’re trying to go. However, this team’s strength is, without a doubt, the way they can stretch each move, and wring out every drop of emotion from it. The romance they can create is second to none. They elegance is something that sets them apart. And their ability to tell a heartfelt story that captivates an audience with artistry and grace while performing technically brilliant and complicated choreography is what made them Olympic champions.
This modern dance version of Carmen? Not any of those things. Again, I understand where they’re trying to go. It’s different. It’s edgy. But while I feel Davis and White’s “different” stems from their strengths, I feel this “different” is an attempt to recreate the wheel. The super-seductive “passion,” cheapens the quality of their movement, and obstructs the flow and connection they have with one another and that their blades have with the ice.
To me, it doesn’t bring out their best qualities while making them more versatile."
There has been other's but I don't have the time now to go search them. But Tara Wellman certainly seems to prefer "classic VM".
One fan is not a backlash. There is not this wall of resistance to Carmen. There's the usual internet immaturity and the usual analysis from more serious fans or pseudo serious fans like the above - who apparently can't look at figure skating. Furthermore she's not bitching about it being offensive or too sensual as such, she's bitching that it obstructs the flow they have with one another and the blades with the ice. That's a figure skating criticism, not a Carmen content criticism, and she's also a DW fan using a self-serving argument.
DeleteI see she's not confusing Tessa with Carmen however.
Anon 12:04
DeleteI have to agree with the blogger that the criticisms of Carmen have been almost exclusively from rival fans. When it first debuted at Skate Canada I saw a lot of criticism at the Golden Skate forums and not surprisingly, every single negative post was from known Davis/White fans who have a history of finding any possible detail to trash in Virtue/Moir's programs in order to raise Davis/White's profile. No one who follows ice-dance expects these people to have a positive opinion about Virtue/Moir so I wouldn't expect that Scott or Tessa or anyone from their family or coaching team would be looking to them for validation.
Blogger is right. The Virtue/Moir fans are more than overwhelmingly thrilled with Carmen. There is no backlash from them nor any comparing of Tessa to Carmen in real life.
Anyone who's thinking there's something weird going on with Tessa and Scott right now (and I know there's a lot of you) just stop and consider things for a moment.
ReplyDeleteEveryone says that Scott's a great actor - he's not. He cannot wipe that "get me out of here" expression off his face when posing with Jess or Cass anymore than he can pretend that Tessa doesn't mean everything to him.
This is all so painfully obvious, folks!
Excellent advice, Anon 4:14. All of you out there who feel like something weird is going on with Tessa and Scott and like your head is going to spin trying to figure it out, please just stop and think about everything for a moment. Open your mind up, set aside your biases against this blog and the idea that Virtue-Moir being married with a small child is impossible, and really consider all of the things that have been said and done. It's all out there in front of you, more obvious than ever.
DeleteConfused people out there, please, just think about this. If you do, you should be able to put it together.
Do they really want to put it together? I think many of them are just sitting on the fence. They pretend one thing in public and might believe another in private. They don't want to rock the boat in public because every group has its police that takes it upon themselves to tell everyone else what's appropriate and not. They want to be good fans. Good fans means believing what Scott and Tessa say. When Scott and Tessa do reveal themselves, some fans will completely support what they did, believe me. They will ignore all aspects that were unnecessary and terribly meanspirited from Monaco to their little TEB Skype scam to the lies about the rift in the book to their latest fan blame game about Carmen. All of that goes well beyond maintaining a barrier for their private lives.
DeleteFandoms are political. The blog is set up by some as the other. IMO a lot of it is just simple politics - the blog can't be 'policed' by self-appointed Scott and Tessa internet police. It's unknown how the blog knows for a fact that Tessa and Scott are together so they're stumped as to what lies to use to refute this fact. For whatever reason, there is a ton of unexamined RAGE directed towards anyone who believes Scott and Tessa are together. I find this in particular, super weird but also super typical of fandoms although I don't know why this happens. Back when the subject was touched upon on different forums, people would come out of the woodwork intent on convincing every.single.person who suspected Scott and Tessa that they were mistaken. Why? There was none of this intensity about Tessa and David Pelletier - a complete lie. Fans didn't like it but no fans became absolutely enraged at anyone believing it.
It's that rage that they don't look at. Where does it come from? Scott and Tessa aren't hiding a murderous past. They're not secretly brother and sister. They are accused of erecting an obnoxious, mean, hypocritical and arrogant sham - of running a con on the public. And I don't think that's even it.
All I can speculate is fans like to feel close to the skaters and the very idea that Scott and Tessa hold this sort of hostility towards fans is something they resist. They still believe that "good fans" are appreciated. Even after this latest salvo from Scott and Tessa lying about and insulting fans on the internet, the group of fans who resist the idea that Scott and Tessa are lying tell themselves that this criticism against Carmen must exist somewhere. It can't be aimed at 'good fans'. Good fans are appreciated by Scott and Tessa.
Of course, Scott's handling of his fan facebook demonstrated every single day that he didn't care about 'good fans' but they continue to cling to that and will continue to be exploited.
those who have seen these national championships of tessa and scott can no longer have doubts! now things are clear and I think it is almost the complete truth ... or that it will be more convenient for them.
ReplyDeleteEven a blind man would understand that this is love!! <3
There are lots of blind men and women on the internet, and even more blind men and women covering figure skating. The men and women covering figure skating use fans as a whipping post as readily as Scott and Tessa. There's not a one that believes it's necessary to even run a casual online check to see if what Scott and Tessa claim is the truth. The media as well as Scott and Tessa are perfectly comfortable running gaslight games. Gaslight games, for those not familiar with the film or term, consists of telling people that what's happening isn't happening, that what they see isn't what they see, and they must be confused or hallucinating. It is intentional.
DeleteMary, were you bullied as a child? I could see it being easy to bully a 7 year old you, mary hadda little lamb, i bet you heard that as often as i heard im short.
ReplyDeleteYou're so clever! I hope you know how silly you're looking to a lot of people right now.
Delete4:15
DeleteAnd you accuse the blogger of being a bully?
Go start your own blog where you can throw your little fit.
In the interest of fairness, I want to point out to the facebook group girls that your group is PUBLIC. Everyone on the face of this earth with a facebook account can see your hissy fits. Some people who are rolling their eyes over here may be part of your group, I don't know...but I'm not and I can see all of your discussion anyways. I occasionally lurk to see what's going on over there, but apparently nowhere near as often as you gals find your way over here.
ReplyDeletehttps://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/555213_468240949907314_537035857_n.jpg
ReplyDeleteThat's a good quote for fans to remember if they're ever unsettled about how they're treated by Scott and Tessa.
DeleteI wonder if anyone can explain why it's fine for, say, the facebook girls to discuss the blogger, but not vice versa? Both are public. The addicted facebook is talked about only as it relates to the subject of this board.
And I really almost hate to say this, but I think it's unfair not to, but maybe you want to consider whether everybody actually uses their real identities on social media. There's a lot of people who don't. It might be hard to figure out who isn't using a real name (again a lot of people) if you don't bother to, you know, LOOK at the damn name. Sound it out. And a final mention that for some reason this blog was openly begun by a different facebook name. Do you really think Scott and Tessa aren't aware that not everybody uses their real name in social media?
"if you don't bother to, you know, LOOK at the damn name. Sound it out."
DeleteBwahahaha. That was the first thing I noticed about this name and I could.not.believe anyone [[coughfacebookgirlscough]] would think not only that it was real but that they personally were going to close down a blog based on this. And you're right, they are enraged about this place.
Furthermore, as I've said before, this blog is hosted by google blogger.
DeleteWhat, precisely, do you think the Moir family and/or the Virtue family and/or Skate Canada could do even if the blog used a verifiable real life identity?
The facts are the facts. Scott and Tessa are together and lying about it. There is no law that protects public figures from being criticized by a member of the public for their own lies. Google, of course, has a terms of service, and they can terminate a blog or other account just because.
Here's the drill.
It doesn't matter if the identity of the blogger is known. If it's off base, all the family has to do is complain to google. If google declines to pull the plug on the blog, the family can then instigate legal action against google.
Of course legal actions are public. It would never come to this, but if you want to pursue the idea to its logical endpoint, in order to make a claim against the blog the Moirs and Virtues would have to lie in legal documents. I don't think they're ready for that.
And let's continue the fantasy and pretend that loyal fans have alerted Virtue Moir to what they believe is the blog's identity a/k/a the spouse of Mr. Charles Little Lamb. They expect Virtue Moir to do WHAT? Virtue Moir are lying. There is no entitlement for famous people to do that.
Some fan forum participants might want to remember that legally there's no 'his/her word against the other's word' here. There is evidence. On the internet, no. But do you really think Scott and Tessa would claim in a legal action that they're not married or together when legally they are? Do you realize the kind of counter lawsuit they would be subject to if they tried it?
This is all fan fantasy. They can't take step one about it because they are lying and the last thing they want is light shed on them in any legitimate venue.
I don't even want to put this on them, because I know it's never crossed their minds. But it would be nice if some fans didn't parade the worst of fandom so publicly.
LOL - I was just waiting to see if they'd ever figure it out, but classy of you to give them a hand.
DeleteWhat I simply don't understand is that this blog was originally directly connected to a facebook account that often linked the blog. The original blog was a facebook "page" and unless it has escaped anyone, the reason it became a blog is you can't use a third party's name on a facebook page. Content had nothing whatsoever to do with it being taken off line. It was simply that the original blog idea was hosted on a page when it ought to have been hosted on a facebook "group".
DeleteWhen I realized that, I thought scrapping the facebook idea and moving things to a blog format would be the better option.
Like it or not, there are a lot of facebooks out there, not a few of them followers of figure skaters and belonging to people interested in this specific subject, that don't use their actual names.
Try to keep that in mind, for God's sake. Or not. Up to you.
It's entertainment media - that's what most sports "reporting" is. It's all ass kissing. Fans are whatever they say they are. The public doesn't mind cause they always figure the subjects are complaining about some OTHER group of fans (look at those on the internet figuring there must be Carmen backlash somewhere). Entertainment journalists are loyal to the public figure not the public.
ReplyDeleteAlso, people like Rosie DiManno are star struck and lucky her, she gets sent overseas to cover a sport she knows nothing about simply because her editors give in to her pleading. It has nothing to do with legitimate writing about figure skating - there's almost no such thing.
That journalist who has been churning out so many ?? VM articles this week works for Sun Media, which is Fox News of the North. The sad thing is that it isn't only him...
ReplyDelete6:32
ReplyDeleteGoing back to the first year V/M were seniors, probably we can count on one hand the articles that focused on their skating and partnership in an objective manner and didn't claim something about the fans that isn't true nor slide in lies about V/M's personal relationship. Lies btw first said by V/M and then repeated everywhere by these journalists.
Like that lip-bump story. Tessa and Scott making a whole little anecdote about that and the journalist accepting every single word, not doing a basic internet fact-check to see too many evidences that the story couldn't possibly be true.
And this is how it will play when/if Virtue Moir bring themselves to come clean. The fans will be assigned a role they never played. They'll be lied about and distorted to a fair thee well and the media will portray it as fact. The role the community played, that facebook played, the stings and the games - will be ignored.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the link to this public facebook group? There are a couple V/M ones but I can't find the one people are talking about here.
ReplyDeletei had obviously thought that might have been the case, i would have been a fool to not see that you could have been lying about who you are on fb - but the chance to shed a light on this was to great, and in that i am a fool indeed.
ReplyDeleteEnraged is not the word to use for what i feel, dumbfounded and sickened are more akin to it.
If their prerogative is to lie to the world about their life then what gives you the right to do otherwise? That's like opening someone else's mail.
It's like opening MY mail. They are not simply denying their relationship to the public, they are proactively instructing the public to believe the lies. Do you really believe the public has an obligation to politely pretend they're not being fucked with by these people, or anyone? Is it the public's job to eat shit, so to speak?
DeleteThe Moirs and Virtues aren't being defensive, they're being offensive. They've intentionally used elements that are valued by the public, intentionally exploited the public's value system in order to be sure that their lies are accepted. Christmas, Olympics, etc. They've gone above and beyond what was ever needed to simply protect their privacy. They've used their public relations for sport. The whole point of the blog is they went way beyond the customary denial/lie that celebrities put out there for privacy. The Moirs and Virtues ran an outright con. Was it their perogative to write a book and go on a book tour promoting a narrative that contained a central lie, and emote and act out that lie in interviews? Was it their perogative to tell us what we thought and how we were mistaken, to make fun of fans for believing the truth?
Imagine if you decided to lie to somebody for whatever reason, but you didn't stop there. You also decided make fun of them for believing the lie, to mock them, and to also talk publicly about how deluded they were to suspect the truth.
Imagine also that you took the truth and baited people with it, and as soon as they bit you yanked it away and slapped them around with a lie. That for your own entertainment and to give your pals something to do you had a pattern of seeking people out in order to get them to pay attention to you, using the truth as bait, and when they responded, springing more lies on them and you blamed them.
It's HOW the Moirs and Virtues do what they do, not WHAT, and this blog has made it very clear. If you are dumbfounded, that's not on the blog.
P.S. - what do you think would have been accomplished by "shedding light", as you put it? What if I'd chosen to use a real identity? What power do you imagine that would give the subjects of this blog?
DeleteIt dumbfounds ME, and is quite sickening, that anyone apparently believes that it's wrong for the public to question stories aimed directly at them, designed to manipulate THEM, set them up and screw with them and also get them to use their actual money to purchase a product they've falsely advertised. That it's wrong to question people who routinely set out to basically humiliate their public.
Someone else's fucking mail? Who are all these lies aimed at? It's aimed at us. But it's your position that the public is obligated to swallow all of it, even when it's done as they have done it. That they should act powerless, because the public is nothing and Scott and Tessa have all the rights? The public is obligated to act as if they are every bit as stupid as it suits Scott and Tesa to pretend they are? That attitude is as sad as it gets. This blog isn't interfering with whatever stories they tell in their athletic or private life (except for the public 4CCs withdrawal). The blog is talking about the lies they tell us. To use a someone else's mail analogy makes no sense whatsoever.
It's a good job that the Facebook group is ~ secret~ now. I'm sure that Tessa and Scott are breathing easier knowing that their honour is being defended.
ReplyDeleteIt's private, which is different than secret. Facebook is still facebook. Once you have hundreds of members or friends, there's no such thing as private, as Scott and Jessica & the sham crew knew when they had "private" and it could only be seen if you were their friend. If someone isn't hacking the addicted facebook, it's public to members for all intents and purposes, and the facebook can't control how its members use what's there, anymore than Scott or Jessica's facebook could control what got spread around (which they didn't want to, obviously).
DeleteIf the facebook girls want to be "private" they need to create a private discussion forum.
oc, not logged in
It's private, which is different than secret. And even then, Facebook is still facebook. Once you have hundreds of members or friends, there's no such thing as private, as Scott and Jessica & the sham crew knew when they had "private" and it could only be seen if you were their friend. If someone isn't hacking the addicted facebook, it's public to members for all intents and purposes, and the facebook can't control how its members use what's there, anymore than Scott or Jessica's facebook could control what got spread around (which they didn't want to, obviously).
DeleteIf the facebook girls want to be "secret" they need to create a "secret" discussion forum.
Also, if I am tracking the events properly, what happened is someone over there thought they'd found a "gotcha" on the blog - discovered the blogger's identity. Even weirder, they thought discovering the blogger's identity could shut down the blog - apparently believing that it's illegal and the only reason it hasn't been shut down before is because nobody knows who the blogger is.
Then they proceeded to try and share this "find" directly with the subjects of this blog, and went on about it over there, in public. And also came over here to taunt the blogger and call other commentators obscene names. Then when it was realized they didn't have the blogger's i.d. after all, the facebook was made private.
I think this is just a bid to pacify the most frequent participants on that space, and I don't blame the site managers of that facebook for that. But holy crap, they are only victims of their own idiocy. They're not the victims of the blog. The blog did nothing to them.
I agree with your point, but the facebook group is on the "Secret" setting - ie not found in search, which is what I assume the above poster was referring to. "Closed" is found in search but non members can't see posts, and "Open" is what it was before. But of course, a group that big is most definitely not "secret" in any meaningful way.
DeleteYes, but it has close to a thousand members, and those members are free to use the content any way they choose to use the content.
DeleteWhy would they assume the blog can only access the facebook via a public search? Why would they assume that changing the restrictions obligated members to behave as if they were in a secret society?
Facebook is PUBLIC. It's meant to be public. Everyone on it knows it or should know it. Once you let in the public - whether as a "group" or via allowing "friends" you don't actually know, you are responsible for how the content is used not the person or entity using the content.
oc, not logged in
Ya, they really did not understand that the blog is not "illegal" and that if there were something to be done to stop it, it would already be done. I think they were likely upset because you scabbed something from their page to use in one of your attacks. They are loyal fans who love all things Scott and Tessa and are very protective. Good on them.
ReplyDeleteYes and they talk about the blog over there exactly as they please (which is their perogative) and I used a facebook screen capture to portray them precisely as they are - as defenders of Scott and Tessa who support everything they say and do and have never expressed criticism of or disappointment in the Carmen program.
DeleteScott and Tessa were the ones who brought internet fans into the discussion as part of their Carmen talking points for Canadians, and the blog follows what Scott and Tessa do and say that's directed towards or about fans.
The facebook was a Scott and Tessa fan site and still is, so their public posting history was relevant to the examination of whether there was any back-up for Scott and Tessa's claims about fans on the web.
The facebook also take things from wherever they please around the net - that is also their perogative. But they are also the net and what they do, post and say is also subject to being republished and yes, even now that they are private if one of their members decides to do that.
There is no such thing as "scabbed" as that implies a negative. Public places on the web become public domain. The one thing this blog has up on the addicted page is that the blog credits them while they themselves don't return the courtesy or frequently bother to credit sources when they share items of interest.
It's amazing to me that some places feel comfortable treating the blog as they will (and I'm comfortable with that too) but also feel that the blog is under some obligation to extend courtesies and respect it doesn't receive. The blog's supposed to treat them as enfeebled special needs cases. Why is that? They're not the point - the Scott and Tessa pr is and so when Scott and Tessa drag internet fans into their pr, internet fans are looked at on the blog.
I'm extremely interested as to why the blog makes some fans so furious and emotional. Aunt Joyce's blog for example, has claimed (falsley) that Tessa was spotted with David Pelletier, has said Scott's hip action is for shit and he must be awful in bed, and ontd_skating for the most part hates Scott's ass and rips apart every word out of his mouth as frequently as the blog does although for different reasons.
And none create the agitation this place does. The blogger doesn't visit other pages - just stays here. And just staying here, gets a billion hissy fits. And why can't it be ignored as Aunt Joyce and ontd_skating are ignored? I don't think it has anything to do with bashing Scott and Tessa. Plenty of places do that. It's because it harms some fans' fantasies about the connection between Scott and Tessa and their fans.
I also think this interesting from the angle that you give some of highest praise around for their skating. Some DW fans are obsessed with being VM haters, but VM fans are obsessed with you instead. Obviously the skating is secondary for some of these people.
Delete"Yes and they talk about the blog over there exactly as they please (which is their perogative)"
DeleteTrue, the facebook VM fan page has the prerogative to talk about anything they wish, but it's extremely hypocritical of them to throw these hissy fits about the blog while at the same time they approve and laugh at some conversations they themselves term "dirty." But omg, let anyone try and talk about anything related to this blog and there's immediate rebuke about the terrible awfulness of questioning VM's status quo and I think they've actually banned this subject.
Now they've decided they want to be a private page (their prerogative) but not, mind you, because they disapprove the "dirty talk." It's all about a self-righteous attitude about this place. One of the comments above praises these girls' loyalty and protectiveness of VM. No, I don't think so. If it was really about that they would have banned some other certain subjects they've felt free to indulge in over there about VM. The loyalty is toward a certain group of fans only and only if those fans think a certain way.
Having said that, that facebook page most definitely has never been critical of VM's Carmen FD nor is there any of the criticism Scott and Tessa talked about in every single freaking interview before Nationals. Which of course was hardly discussed at that place because the loyal/protective fan is not supposed to question anything VM say or do.
"Fandom" though is rarely rational. That's the fun of it! No, you didn't use the screen shot from their page to criticize them in any way, but you still used it as a a partial premise to convince people that V/M are liars and yes, that hurts the FB group's feelings. It is what it is and it isn't going to change. Nor will this blog.
ReplyDeleteWe'll disagree on how fun irrationality in fandom is, especially based on some of the discussion and behavior that takes place and how they can treat not only one another, but the subjects of their fandom.
DeleteThey question VM all the time themselves. For example they openly speculate that VM are in denial of their feelings, or that something other than what Scott and Tessa say is going on must be going on. They interpret and spin - so the fb itself isn't entirely respectful of what Scott and Tessa do and say, and that's before we get to open speculation about their intimate lives with other people.
I believe the problem is they think the blog scares Scott and Tessa away and reduces the access they think they have to Scott, especially. Some of them have complained that because of the blog they no longer "get all kinds of things" from Scott - meaning pictures. They never got anything in the first place - everything on facebook was faked specifically to con them. But I don't think they actually care - they'd rather have the con than nothing, and the reality of the photos isn't really important.
oc, not logged in
P.S. - Scott and Tessa certainly do find the irrationality fun, however, and have enjoyed jerking their chains.
Deleteoc, not logged in
I was rereading some of these articles you've mentioned. Incredibly, Scott seems to be saying, "How *dare* the fans only want lovey-dovey programs." He not only created these false fan feelings and wishes, he then turned around and basically scolded the fans for their feelings. I don't understand why it's so hard for them to be appreciative of the fans' enthusiasm for every one of their programs (which is easily documented going back to their junior days - these "reporters" are unbelievably sloppy journalists). Is it really that much of a bigger story to invent controversies that don't exist?
ReplyDeleteI cannot imagine how other skaters who need the media attention feel when they see all the fan-love continually extended to VM, and then seeing VM constantly turn on their fans, humiliating them and treating them like trash. I don't think I've ever witnessed this kind of dynamic between a beloved celebrity and his/her fans.
"I was rereading some of these articles you've mentioned. Incredibly, Scott seems to be saying, "How *dare* the fans only want lovey-dovey programs." He not only created these false fan feelings and wishes, he then turned around and basically scolded the fans for their feelings."
DeleteThat's how they roll. All the time. They set fans up then beat them up. They set fans up TO beat them up. And if fans aren't reacting, they lie about them and beat fans up anyway. I don't know where this contemptuous strategy comes from but it's so markedly different than the rest of the skaters whether in Canada, the U.S. or elsewhere.
Scott did say that he thought the public could tell that he and Tessa weren't feeling the short dance and I thought - since when does he give the public credit for anything. The public can't tell anything about him and Tessa on the ice; it's all acting, the public is just confusing fantasy and wish fulfillment with reality - but they had a bead on the short dance? Ok.
Of course the journalists who write this drivel will continue to write this garbage when Tessa and Scott's status is known. First of all, it's almost guaranteed Scott and Tessa won't man up and face the music themselves - they'll slip it through a third party the way they did the "former girlfriend" newsflash. Scott and Tessa won't own up to anything directly.
Second, if they do end up quoted on their status or owning up to it, it will be via one of the tabloid fanboys or girls or via someone for whom an interview with Scott/Tessa will be a career highlight. And fans will get screwed then as well. Scott will complain that he couldn't even be seen with a woman on facebook without fans thinking it was his girlfriend, and the reporter will spin it like it's fact. It seems to me they are setting fans up to eat it with this Cassandra bullshit. Get a lot of photos out there of Scott being affectionate with one particular girl. But don't declare the relationship. Mix it up - for example, when you pose with a foursome, you're with this girl and your buddy is next to a girl who is not your buddy's girlfriend.
See what they did there? "See what they did there" is this year's sham strategy. Scenarios that can be taken both ways, but the fans are absolutely intended to take her as his girlfriend. And then they'll be scoffed at and blamed for taking the bait. Poor Scott. Can't even hang with friends on facebook in photos released before major Canadian competitions focusing on Scott with one girl in particular who positions the photos prominently on her public facebook without fans getting confused and making assumptions when they know nothing.
That seems about how it will go.
oc
You are right about the other skaters who need media attention - what they must feel when they see the fan support extended to VM, how hard fans work to be accepted, and what a waste of time it is because VM just humiliate them. Fans have done nothing to deserve this - VM have made decisions in their own life for which fans are a convenient scapegoat. They're the target VM don't have to face, and they're big avoiders.
DeleteBut I think the lying part is the worst. To get out there and posture like "oh it hurts to have my personality associated with Carmen." It's cruel. It's also cowardly.
IMO they show their true character all the time in the way they are willing to behave when they can't be called to account. Journalists don't do their homework, fans don't have a voice, so skaters are free to do this and yet as far as I can see, VM are the only ones who are blatantly meanspirited, publicly two-faced liars when it comes to how they treat fans and speak of fans.
The other Canadian skaters are wonderful to their fans. Even Jessica Dube, as much as I don't care for her, was courteous to fans on facebook and acknowledged well wishes and congratulations left by fans.
I haven't seen this dynamic either - ever. A lot of public figures will try to hype themselves up to shore up their position and use fans to do it, but it's different. For instance, a common ploy is to claim a big young following or say 'surprisingly, I get a lot of letters from teens' in order to create the impression you're a draw in a desirable demo. Or plant the idea in other ways that you're hot stuff.
But lie about the audience/public at large, as a consistent policy, use them as the scapegoat for everything - no. Scott and Tesssa truly are unique there.
Again, it says something unpleasant about them, because I believe many other skaters, no matter how they feel about fans and camp followers, would simply be unable to do what Scott and Tessa do, because it's mean. Their instincts and basic empathy could never allow it. Something is hugely screwed up in that area when it comes to Scott and Tessa.
oc
P.S. - I am willing to take cyber bets that when the time comes it will be Scott's spin that fans misinterpreted stuff on facebook, projected onto photos - and basically that the sham was all in their runaway imaginations, and that's why he stayed clear of facebook - every five minutes we had him with a new girl!
DeleteAnd they'll simply ignore parading Jessica through Ilderton in a horse drawn buggy like a prize heifer at a 4H fair, they'll ignore Alma's Monaco album, and all the other evidence that it was THEM that is still around.
The sham story will be turned around to be something that fans blew up in their imaginations, by implication Scott and Tessa will claim it was never shamming, just normal facebook photos with friends from large events like competitions and skater weddings (and family weddings, Christmas, the Dominican will be ignored) and man - the guy couldn't get his photo taken without a billion stories out there!
Any takers for that bet?
oc
4:48
DeleteI'm willing to bet that's how Scott will try to frame things. I'm less willing to bet he'll really get away with it. There is just such an obscene abundance of Scott-Jessica photos, shrewdly posed. I don't see how they provide a rational explanation that would be acceptable and doesn't make them look like complete tools. Not only them, also Scott's parents. You really think the honeymoon-esque pictures from the Dominican plus the Christmas, Monaco and Paris pictures hosted by Alma will be allowed to be swept under the rug? I'm sure they'll try - just not sure it'll really work.
They're swept under the rug now. How many in the mainstream media have seen them? It's all facebook. I think it will be extremely easy to ignore, and fans are always willing to go along with blaming other fans. All the media went along with "questioning" Scott and Tessa about their relationship status while Scott's facebook status with Jessica and photo spam on facebook and Jessica's presence with the family at major competitions was treated as if it didn't exist. With that stuff years in the past it's even easier. Who will put that in their face? Who, exactly is not going to "allow" it. There's nobody. As regards the Jessica stuff the double game has *already* been allowed.
Deleteoc
oc 5:51
DeleteHas it been "allowed" in part because in spite of the media not mentioning it, it's accepted as true? That Scott and Jessica dated and all those appearances were the real deal. But what happens when it's acknowledged it was never real?
Accepted as true by who? That "in spite of" you mention is pretty huge. "In spite of seeing the facebook spam and accepting Jessica and Scott as true, media personalities just went along with Scott and Tessa's story that most fans believed they were together."
DeleteThe two things don't fit. If they accept it as true based on having seen facebook, they're not going to act like they don't know the answer to the relationship question.
Your scenario supposes media people saw the photos, accepted them, and believed that Jessica and Scott were a romantic couple, yet when they interviewed Scott and Tessa, never asked him about having a fellow skater as a girlfriend, never mentioned facebook to him, never brought up Jessica at all, and instead asked questions about Scott and Tessa dating and fans confusing reality with fantasy, as if there was no facebook for fans to look at. But when Scott and Tessa come clean, these same media people will hold their feet to the fire, not allow them to misrepresent fan behavior, and say "whoa guys, what about all that facebook spam?"
IOW, these media types will transform into completely different people due to a reveal?
What explains them never bringing Jessica up to Scott, or never writing about Jessica themselves, if they accepted it as true and saw facebook?
That hypothesis just isn't rational.
I believe that those media fb friends of Scott and Jessica's fell into one of two categories - knew the whole thing was bogus but didn't give it a ton of thought otherwise, as is the case with most fan stuff - or bought into it and also didn't give it much thought and are unlikely to turn into expose' mode once the facts are out. They're skating reporters/media - not investigative journalists.
It wasn't acknowledged while it was happening. There is no logic in believing that it will be acknowledged when Scott and Tessa's real status is known. Do we honestly believe anyone in the media is going to drag stuff up aimed at fans - if they even saw it? There was a reason Scott and Tessa chose social media to market this thing. Honestly there isn't going to be some retroactive expose or investigation.
I'm just interested in the scenario you envision. WHO is going to come out and say "we accepted the facebook as true at the time, but we decided not to talk about Jessica at all when we wrote about Scott and Tessa - it was too much fun to talk about how fans believed Scott and Tessa were together. We liked that hype. However, now that Scott and Tessa have come clean, we must say that was a pretty big scam they pulled off on social media."
There's no way.
oc 6:23
DeleteIt all sounds so logical when you put it that way. But wow, it's hard for my mind to wrap around how easily such a years-long hoax could be dismissed. I'm very interested in seeing how this all plays out and so far I would have to say you've been right on target.
I don't see what's hard to wrap the mind around. We all know figure skater facebooks are fan central. Most of the skaters have tons of fans as friends. They also have some media, other skaters and skating personnel, personal friends, and family. Anyone in the media who makes a friend request to some skater's facebook is going to be as much a fan/supporter as they are media/professional. We can see now, simply from the comments on various skater facebooks that the media are skater friends - professional friends, sure, but friends and make no mistake, fans. They're not going to transform into some muckraker just because Scott and Tessa misrepresented their status. They wouldn't be on some skater's damn facebook if they were.
DeleteAlso except for the obvious names, all of the people in media have other stuff to cover. They're not chronicling all this Scott and Tessa stuff. They're not on some Scott and Tessa beat. They do a Scott and Tessa piece a couple of times a year or so and in between they cover entirely different stuff. They're all on deadline, they all have to get what they need for their article in a constricted time period, write and submit the thing, and done and probably not on their facebook.
Look at Milton. He's STILL writing odes to platonic passion. That other idiot resurrected the lip bump ridiculousness.
I can tell you now how it will play out. There will be nothing to play out.
What I believe is that any fallout will unwind over time and take place where it takes place now on the web. For the most part, I guarantee the majority of fans will be on Scott & Tessa's side because they want to show off themselves as being understanding, and because they find the blog and blogger obnoxious and don't want the blog to be "right" or "have the satisfaction." However if either Scott or Tessa want a public voice in the world of skating, that's where they may get pushback, because they were huge scammers and liars and have pretty much forfeited any standing they might otherwise have had to comment or offer opinions on what's going on with others in the world of skating on or off the ice. That's where they might find themselves hamstrung.
http://www.canada.com/Target+Canada+sell+Roots+clothing+when+chain+launches+here+this+spring/7872511/story.html
ReplyDeleteThe above link says Roots Canada had a fashion show on ice with figure skating models.
After such a huge Roots' promotion for Virtue/Moir (they said for at least FOUR YEARS) right after the Olympics, I think it's embarrassing that now as far as Roots is concerned it's Virtue/Moir who?
Boy, that sure didn't last long. I'd almost say it looks like Roots couldn't get rid of Virtue/Moir fast enough.
That's why I'm extremely skeptical that the deal went south because VM wore non-Roots gear somewhere when they weren't supposed to. Sponsors are frequently very forgiving about that - there's no benefit to the sponsor really to get rid of an appealing promotional partnership for that reason.
DeleteIt seems to me that, as did many people around Scott and Tessa, Roots anticipated they'd become public with their true relationship status soon into the partnership. When Scott and Tessa opted out, the partnership dissolved because Roots is too prominant a brand to spend four years promoting a platonic friendship between a couple Roots knows is actually married. The folks at Roots would be questioned more readily than Scott and Tessa themselves. It's also unlikely to be a marketing decision they're comfortable standing behind. If they cover that up, what else would they cover up? It's not good for the brand.
oc