tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post8848139341819811576..comments2024-03-15T09:03:33.742-07:00Comments on Jessica Dube Loves Scott Moir: Skating skillsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger112125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-32477234139945275222014-03-16T07:14:51.230-07:002014-03-16T07:14:51.230-07:00As OC says, the vast majority of their following f...As OC says, the vast majority of their following follows them because of their skating. The sham is sideshow, but for whatever reason, V/M believe the sham is their selling point -- the thing that makes them unique. I don't know if it's because they've been told that it's easier to sell that to the mainstream public than ice dancing (which as we see on FSU, is totally impossible to understand *rolls eyes*). <br /><br />For V/M, the sham is a joke, even for them. Their skating though, is deadly serious, and not something they will let others fuck with. Therefore, as OC and others have said in the past, the sham is where they can let busybodies get involved, trade favors, and do whatever else a town of over-involved people needs to do to be happy and feel like they are a part of V/M's lives. Also, its something easy to say to all the idiot journalists/show hosts/etc., who just want a quick soundbite and aren't interested in truly discussing skating. <br /><br />You probably have noticed that the few times they have been asked true skating questions by fans/journalists who take skating seriously, they will answer very intelligently. This is the real "V/M," and part of the reason I believe Scott often says he wishes they would fade into obscurity. Tessa, though, I think enjoys all the perks that come with having "business" relationships so it will be interesting to see what they choose to do in the future (I'm sure Scott enjoys the free hockey tickets, the chances "to be clever," etc., but I'm betting what he enjoys the most is seeing Tessa enjoying herself so he goes along with all of this.). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-7090002866170849972014-03-15T21:58:26.265-07:002014-03-15T21:58:26.265-07:00I have to admit that I enjoyed their Off the Recor...I have to admit that I enjoyed their Off the Record interview a lot. The host left most of the sordid personal bits aside and actually focused on the sport. I want more of that.<br />Strangely it looked to me like they were uncomfortable when they were asked about their own sport ...<br />I wanted to slap Tessa when she said she didn't want people to think about the controversy. That's the reason the sport will never evolve !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-40977868962260595072014-03-15T21:00:55.116-07:002014-03-15T21:00:55.116-07:00If she doesn't know CoP or technique that well...If she doesn't know CoP or technique that well, how can she be sure that they are being used incorrectly or to support gut feelings? You would have to actually know CoP and technique to determine the validity of the way in which they are being used. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-70133037684561016022014-03-15T15:16:17.199-07:002014-03-15T15:16:17.199-07:00Yeah, I think Doris or someone else on Goldenshit ...Yeah, I think Doris or someone else on Goldenshit started that whole 'it's not polka enough' crap, and idiots like mia joy repeated it. The sad thing is, one of the Eurosport guys also said they did a waltz and they were supposed to do a polka in their SD (he said this during their gala performance at 4CC i think). People really need to read the rules. I actually think Doris does read the rules and understands them to some extent--she just twists them into something completely divergent from the meaning of the original rules. <br /><br />TWGO was a brilliant SD and should have easily won.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-20151639020534824002014-03-15T15:13:44.387-07:002014-03-15T15:13:44.387-07:00At this point, I pretty much agree with the person...At this point, I pretty much agree with the person in the comments who, last week, said they don't give a fuck. Now, this person meant re having their home on the reality show and then tracked via trulio, but I think it's reasonable to amplify that idea. They don't care. As long as they're not accountable, they don't care. This is their game. It's their brand. So it's a clusterfuck - at least it has people talking.<br /><br />Although more and more, as you say, it IS derision, and most of the actual passion in the fandom has to do with what's going on with skating and judging.oycanadahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14056686007756844095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-76579014369467938482014-03-15T13:07:13.323-07:002014-03-15T13:07:13.323-07:00It occurs to me Cassandra made her instagram publi...It occurs to me Cassandra made her instagram public as a means of acquiring as followers as many VM fans as possible. In a little while she can hide it again, under the pretense of privacy, but by then there are a lot of followers who will of course inform the fandom about what is posted. It creates the same scenario as when Scott pretended to make his personal facebook private but made sure some fans were left as friends. That way the fandom is informed of "intimate" pictures and it moreover gives VM and Moirville the excuse that this stuff is "private" and they had no intentions of sharing, and "See? We're stalked!!" (*Rolleyes*)<br /><br />These people really really care what we think. Yes, I'm following what they do, as are many other fans, but it certainly does not enhance their image in my mind. On the contrary, VM and their sham (especially the fake girlfriend and all her sycophants) are ever hideously ridiculous and grotesque. I follow for the curiosity and the laughs as to what in the world they will do next. They never fail to come through in their idiocy with this sham.<br /><br />I hope they're happy with their "following" that sees them as objects of derision.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-27103903976943768412014-03-15T13:05:04.141-07:002014-03-15T13:05:04.141-07:00I'm 10:43, and just want to clarify that I wa...I'm 10:43, and just want to clarify that I wasn't meaning the polka claim had any merit whatsoever. I was meaning that I've seen V/M fans say something along the lines of "well, if V/M got dinged for that, D/W should get dinged for doing a waltz." TWGO's non-existent "problem" (and yes, that could have been all Doris, rather than related to the ISU's own rationales to keep V/M down), the "problem" was that it didn't have a polka-centric theme, not that it lacked them doing the polka rhythm, or that they were doing a different rhythm that wasn't allowed. So, I agree with these fans that D/W haven't embraced the spirit of the theme (something I think V/M did do in a sophisticated way in TWGO), and that they aren't doing the foxtrot rhythm in any meaningful way, but to go to the third option and say "D/W are doing a rhythm that isn't even allowed" is problematic. Waltz isn't a choice, but they're not doing a waltz, they're doing no dancing at all.<br /><br />I agree re: edges. V/M had some spectacularly unique edgework in that program.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-12007570933383671102014-03-15T12:20:24.949-07:002014-03-15T12:20:24.949-07:00The Waltz Goes On was a brilliant SD and truly cap...The Waltz Goes On was a brilliant SD and truly captured the essence a waltz...I remember during the Rostelecom GP, Nicky Slater describing it as a mini-freedance.<br /><br />Not only was D/W's polka pattern terrible, but what did the rest of the program have anything to do with a ballet? Meryl's positions were awful. There was more ballet in V/M's "Everybody dance now" exhibition than in that God-awful SD. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-18416225945928511322014-03-15T11:34:37.129-07:002014-03-15T11:34:37.129-07:009:53 here
I would love for her to qualify that ar...9:53 here<br /><br />I would love for her to qualify that argument. Is she basing it on the fact that most people using detailed discussions of CoP and technique have explanations that favor the skaters who happen to be the ones who come out on top in terms of gut emotional feelings? (I am not saying this is the case, just trying to understand her reasoning). How is she making this correlation? Isn't it possible that these people believe that, when applied correctly, CoP actually rewards the best skaters or skaters who best embody what they feel is important in figure skating? <br /><br />It is like backing up your assertions with in-depth discussions of skating technique, dance technique, and the actual rules governing the sport is a bad thing on FSU. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-48445808365233926282014-03-15T10:50:53.035-07:002014-03-15T10:50:53.035-07:00Please, VM had the best polka pattern dance all se...Please, VM had the best polka pattern dance all season, especially at Worlds. There's a minimum required amount of polka you have to do, and they did it, and combined it with waltz which was one of other choices! The point is when they were supposed to be doing polka they were dancing polka, and when they elected to waltz, they were actually waltzing. Just because DorisP decided to start something about "not carrying the true polka feeling" throughout does not mean there was anything wrong with VM's routine. How is it at all comparable to DW not performing the foxtrot and quickstep in time, which is a HUGE error, not a style preference, and is the type of program you see in teams that don't even qualify to the FD (and it's not like DW had tremendous skating or elements to compensate for that huge flaw).<br /><br />The Waltz Goes On is one of my very favorite VM programs. I'd argue it's the one that showcases their edges best.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-52344201383478746962014-03-15T10:43:43.558-07:002014-03-15T10:43:43.558-07:00Thank you 9:34 for further clarifying. I agree wi...Thank you 9:34 for further clarifying. I agree with most of what you said. It's funny, I had actually been reminded of a march to some degree as well. But yeah, I think to classify the movement they do as any style in particular is problematic - it's not dancing at all. Especially when I've seen the claim coupled with "well, V/M got dinged for not doing enough polka." That was a theme thing, plain and simple, if it indeed played into justifying V/M's losses at all. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-74580593078888820922014-03-15T10:36:35.956-07:002014-03-15T10:36:35.956-07:00So how come the DW fans, who rely totally on gut f...So how come the DW fans, who rely totally on gut feelings, can never use COP to justify their arguments? I mean, if it's so easy?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-30260176403712446202014-03-15T09:53:10.155-07:002014-03-15T09:53:10.155-07:00A new thread was started be VIETgrlTerifa about ra...A new thread was started be VIETgrlTerifa about ranking the Sochi performances based on "simple feelings". While I have no interest in participating in a thread like that, I would have no problem with it if it weren't prefaced with this:<br /><br />" No need for "in-depth" technical analysis or how COP justified or didn't justify a particular result. Let's get rid of all that pretense because if we're totally being honest here, most people who try to use COP to justify their arguments are only using COP as a pretext to support what their gut emotional feelings are telling them."<br /><br />Okay, so let's just ignore anyone with any expertise in anything because they must just be using their knowledge to further their agenda. Or is it something particular to people who bother to educate themselves on CoP and technique? And that is a pretty bold statement to make--what led her to that conclusion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-34164100001494133152014-03-15T09:12:43.386-07:002014-03-15T09:12:43.386-07:00@5:30
Yes, I meant DW used music with correct timi...@5:30<br />Yes, I meant DW used music with correct timing for foxtrot but that is as far as it goes. When I said the comment about them doing a waltz instead of a foxtrot has some merit, I meant that their SD resembles a waltz/march more than any other rhythm if we were pushed to classify it as one of them...with a bit of the Bunny Hop thrown in. But they don't have the lilt to do a waltz or foxtrot properly. It really isn't proper dancing, it is skating from one end of the rink to the other and him whipping his partner around into turns or her turning independently of him--they are not dancing with a leader-follower relationship. Some people on FSU are acting like ice dance is some impossible to crack code, that we can't trust our eyes and what we know about skating, dancing, and the rules. It is insulting to fans of the sport who have actually taken the time to educate themselves about these things.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-35728864286339502892014-03-15T08:24:24.317-07:002014-03-15T08:24:24.317-07:00Giselle also bore a striking similarity to Die Fle...Giselle also bore a striking similarity to Die Fleudermaus, but the St. Paulie Girl costuming and the in-place homage to the ballet diverted people from noticing it. oycanadahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14056686007756844095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-85405007612123175092014-03-15T08:23:08.950-07:002014-03-15T08:23:08.950-07:00"We have to look at what they are actually do..."We have to look at what they are actually doing with their bodies to determine what style of dance is being performed in that program. And in that thread Prancer and the rest of the mob seem to be avoiding looking at the actual dancing and skating in favor of looking at the protocols and at the credentials of someone opining on the skating."<br /><br />Seems to be - that's what they are doing, that's what everybody does. Ignore the evidence. The primary source evidence is the skating matched against the rules. Period. Not the protocols, not somebody's opinion, not the music. Furthermore, DW are so explicitly not doing what is described in the rules, in fact, often doing what is discouraged in the rules, that it's elementary. No scrutiny required. It's right there.oycanadahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14056686007756844095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-57374031702506929812014-03-15T07:44:43.737-07:002014-03-15T07:44:43.737-07:00So a team like D/W, would they fill their programs...So a team like D/W, would they fill their programs with more lunges and posing then? Seeing as that is their idea of "dancing". Good grief. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-25739332492242113952014-03-15T07:11:08.205-07:002014-03-15T07:11:08.205-07:00@5:25: curious what rule changes will be made to t...@5:25: curious what rule changes will be made to the twizzles. Will that fucking dance hop still garner a level 4? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-67445438241773179742014-03-15T05:30:36.842-07:002014-03-15T05:30:36.842-07:00I've seen I Could've Danced All Night danc...I've seen I Could've Danced All Night danced as a waltz... or are you guys saying DW's particular rendition of it is not in waltz time? (I haven't watched them recently and would rather not).<br /><br />I agree they're not skating a waltz. They aren't dancing either. What they are doing is performing something on ice that purports to be a foxtrot but is completely of time, as is their quickstep (noted by Petri Kokko), and bears a striking similarity to choreography borrowed from their Die Fledermaus FD, which used waltz music.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-10704013913561631152014-03-15T05:25:33.664-07:002014-03-15T05:25:33.664-07:00Yeah, I'm intrigued by that.. assnetwork doesn...Yeah, I'm intrigued by that.. assnetwork doesn't explain well. Are they saying couples must do one pattern of the Paso Doble CD and then one pattern of their own paso doble steps (like the old OSPs) but they need to incorporate the Paso key points to get the levels? That is completely confusing. In the SDs, the levels for the pattern dances live and die by they key point (whereas in regular footwork sections, dancers receive a level based on the overall percentage of difficult, clean turns). So doesn't that mean an intrepid team would just create their own pattern with the key point coming after something easy and very few difficult steps but nail the key point and get a level 4?<br /><br />And... fuck the ISU. Couples like VM, PB, and WP found plenty of time to dance in their FDs this year. VM have done that every year. If they wanted to reward that type of skating, they would have been doing it. Taking away a lift and adding a "choreographic spin" wtf-ever that is, is not addressing the problems in this "sport"...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-2578547333691408362014-03-15T00:10:30.730-07:002014-03-15T00:10:30.730-07:0011:47 here
I should add some examples. The steps ...11:47 here<br /><br />I should add some examples. The steps they take just before the lyrics start have the style of a march--stiff steps to the beats, equal emphasis on all of them. Then they throw in a bit of waltz with the way they do their turns and their hold but yeah...it just isn't very good dancing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-8735505465555018792014-03-14T23:47:17.437-07:002014-03-14T23:47:17.437-07:00@11:10
9:34 here. You are right, they are not do...@11:10 <br /><br />9:34 here. You are right, they are not doing a proper waltz--I would classify it more as running and hopping around the ice than anything else. I was citing MarieM's post but I should have worded my comment differently. I agree that not doing a foxtrot does not automatically mean they are doing a waltz but if I had to classify their SD as any dance style, it would be a waltz/march hybrid when I look at their hold and how they carry their bodies. But my main point in bringing that up is that Prancer's argument that they are not waltzing in their SD because their music is not a waltz is a weak one. We have to look at what they are actually doing with their bodies to determine what style of dance is being performed in that program. And in that thread Prancer and the rest of the mob seem to be avoiding looking at the actual dancing and skating in favor of looking at the protocols and at the credentials of someone opining on the skating. Okay, Prancer admitted she doesn't know enough about ice dance to really say, but why pick at the credibility of some posters and their sources without being equally as scrupulous with the rest?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-4446360144901305842014-03-14T23:46:27.292-07:002014-03-14T23:46:27.292-07:00@11:10
9:34 here. You are right, they are not do...@11:10 <br /><br />9:34 here. You are right, they are not doing a proper waltz--I would classify it more as running and hopping around the ice than anything else. I was citing MarieM's post but I should have worded my comment differently. I agree that not doing a foxtrot does not automatically mean they are doing a waltz but if I had to classify their SD as any dance style, it would be a waltz/march hybrid when I look at their hold and how they carry their bodies. But my main point in bringing that up is that Prancer's argument that they are not waltzing in their SD because their music is not a waltz is a weak one. We have to look at what they are actually doing with their bodies to determine what style of dance is being performed in that program. And in that thread Prancer and the rest of the mob seem to be avoiding looking at the actual dancing and skating in favor of looking at the protocols and at the credentials of someone opining on the skating. Okay, Prancer admitted she doesn't know enough about ice dance to really say, but why pick at the credibility of some posters and their sources without being equally as scrupulous with the rest?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-61441872421050990812014-03-14T23:12:17.874-07:002014-03-14T23:12:17.874-07:00*an attempt at interpretation, I should say. Even...*an attempt at interpretation, I should say. Even if they tried, they probably wouldn't be successful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2583966972735299482.post-22135347756220034982014-03-14T23:10:44.313-07:002014-03-14T23:10:44.313-07:009:34 - could you explain why the D/W doing a waltz...9:34 - could you explain why the D/W doing a waltz thing is valid? I'd really appreciate knowing the explanation behind that, because I've seen the claim and don't really get it. The music isn't in a waltz time signature. They're not doing a foxtrot, in the same way they weren't doing a waltz in DF. I don't follow the logic that opting out of dancing a foxtrot automatically means they're dancing a waltz instead. If we're talking about theme, I totally get it - MFL is a DF rehash. But I don't see how MFL is an interpretation of waltz rhythm anymore than it's an interpretation of foxtrot rhythm (ie. not at all).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com